Man with Imperial Japanese Rising Sun T-Shirt Attacked in China


From NetEase:

Man Wearing Rising Sun Flag to Climb Mt. Tai [Taishan] Has Shirt Stripped Off

September 7 evening, a netizen with the username “泰山摄影学校” made a post on a discussion forum saying there was a man around 30 years old allegedly from Tianjin at the 28th Annual Mt. Tai International Mountaineering Festival who was wearing a T-shirt printed with the words “Great Imperial Japanese Navy” and soon after surrounded by people. The surrounding people one after another denounced him, with the man saying he had grown up in Japan since he was small, that this is how he dressed in Japan, that he hasn’t had a problem wearing this anywhere else, so how come it isn’t acceptable in Tai’an? On-duty police escorted him away to prevent the situation from escalating. Before leaving, he threw out a “too much anger hurts the liver”.






The "Rising Sun" Imperial Japanese Navy t-shirt worn by a Chinese man allegedly from Tianjin at Taishan that angered the surrounding public.

Comments from NetEase:

网易辽宁省大连市手机网友 ip:221.201.*.*

Tai’an has reminded me that there is still one place in China that has national integrity!

e2c9980746442154c12601d3 [网易河南省郑州市手机网友]:

Those who think this guy is trolling, please click upvote…

777ijo8 [网易山东省青岛市手机网友]:

Shandong people, real men.

网易新疆喀什市手机网友 ip:222.80.*.*

I support the people of Tai’an’s actions.

而立5kxx [网易安徽省手机网友]:

Beating him up would be letting him off easy, fucker can get lost back to Japan.

网易福建省厦门市手机网友 ip:120.42.*.*:

Hehe, putting aside first whether he should’ve worn this T-shirt or not, we can see from this incident alone that when this nationality encounters this kind of situation where there is no danger/risk but allows them to create a stir and get people flocking around to watch, one after another red faced person is eager to go up. But if it is a criminal… Forget criminal, even if it was a middle-aged man with a group of girls committing a violent crime in a restaurant, not a single one of them would dare to stand forward, each and every one of them run far away, deathly afraid of getting any blood on them, and that is our real “national character”, hehe…


It may be said that there should be personal rights, that individuals have the freedom to wear and say what they please, but if an individual’s behavior violates the public or society’s interests, then I think this behavior should not be approved of or defended. Just like you couldn’t possibly wear clothes printed with the words “having comfort women is reasonable”, because this isn’t only within the sphere of individual rights. Freedom admittedly needs to be protected, but it should also be restricted by morality and ethics. Wearing a T-shirt featuring a symbol of Japanese militarism is sufficient to prove that he does not have a proper standard for determining right and wrong, and one that goes against society’s values. So what the people of Tai’an did may have been unreasonable, but the freedom of the guy wearing the Japanese militarism T-Shirt should not be defended.

网易日本手机网友 [xhzenyou] 的原贴: (responding to above)

Are you a stupid cunt? The military flag of Japan’s modern navy is the rising sun. Japan’s military is restricted by the United States, and when even the United States isn’t complaining, what are you JB getting upset about? Mainlanders sure are fucking ignorant.

网易河南省平顶山市手机网友 ip:61.158.*.* (responding to above)

You were created from a piss I took. I don’t know if you eat Japanese people’s shit or if you’re within the country but have attached a Japan IP, either way, may your entire family get chemotherapy every day and develop AIDS.

网易云南省曲靖市网友 ip:14.205.*.*

But when going to Little Japan, people seem to be able to carry the Red Flag [PRC flag] there and back without anything happening. People [mainlanders] are too brainwashed, always feeling they are the weaker party. In the future, avoid doing these kind of things. Have the attitude of the stronger party [“bigger man”], let him wear what he wants to wear, without us caring. It’s not like wearing clothes is a crime. However, if he does things he shouldn’t do, then make sure he’s punished, without mercy. But this is the exact opposite. Are they bullying him because he looks easy to bully? Yet when it comes to those laowai who harass girls, no one dares to say anything? Don’t say this hasn’t happened. I’ve seen it in the news more than just a few times.

5d2a0672dcf0a9142287a3d2 [网易福建省福州市手机网友]:

First of all, the old Imperial Navy flag is silly. This guy should at least choose an army flag at least, right?
Next, what he wears is his personal right. Our country hasn’t legislated against wearing certain in public, so people should not have violated his rights like this. This truly is a problem of character and upbringing. If we had legislated something like what Europe has done with Nazi symbols, then I would think there was nothing wrong with stripping him [of his shirt].
Overall, this was a farce involving a troll and a group of barbarians.


Chinese people sure are niu. An entire bus of people afraid to do something about a pickpocket, and when street peddlers or migrant workers are being beaten up by a group of people, people only stand around looking on. Now when they see someone wear something that doesn’t sit well with them, they get all uppity, all patriotic, able to make headlines, able to prove oneself a man. I keep wondering, what if this guy was a bulky big man with tattoos showing, would people still dare to do anything to him?

xinglong1986 [网易山东省泰安市手机网友]: (responding to above)

Brother, let me tell you, the photos were taken by us Mountaineering Festival Service Team members as we were climbing the mountain. By the time we were descending, we were considering posting them on the internet, but we never thought they would make it onto NetEase! You weren’t there. If you were, let me tell you, the moment that troll appeared wearing that, the majority of people immediately went up to him. If the cops weren’t there, he would’ve been beaten to death. No matter how tough he could’ve been, it would’ve been no use, because most of us Tai’an people really hate Japanese people, so wearing this kind of clothes at the foot of Mt. Tai was just looking for trouble.

From NetEase:

Xinhua News Refutes “The Stripping of the Man Wearing the Rising Sun Was Narrow-Minded Nationalism”

@新华视点 [Xinhua Focus]: Midnight Micro-Comment – According to reports, a man wearing a rising sun flag when climbing Mt. Tai angered those around him and had his shirt stripped off. One comment claims this was “narrow-minded nationalism”, but this point of view enormously obscures right and wrong. Endorsing the “Great Imperial Japanese Navy” is a failure of the most basic ability to discern right from wrong when it comes to the ruthless and brutal acts committed under militarism, no different from endorsing the Nazis. To challenge humanity’s consensus in the name of pursuing freedom and individuality/personality is stupid to the extreme!

Comments from NetEase:

网易广东省广州市手机网友 ip:14.16.*.*

This time I have to support Xinhua News!

别说我是新人 [网易黑龙江省大庆市网友]:

If nothing else, it can be certain that those wearing a rising sun flag in China are retards.

网易辽宁省沈阳市手机网友 ip:175.167.*.*

If it were me, I would’ve beaten him up.

血犹未冷 [网易湖北省武汉市网友]:

This time I comment with strong support for Xinhua News.

08745f4630f2398b20cd0259 [网易湖南省郴州市手机网友]:

What people wear is none of your business!

牛奶含片r0wu [网易福建省莆田市手机网友]:

Every person has a different way of looking at the world; there is no right or wrong.

kkqqjj123 [网易河北省石家庄市手机网友]:

Destroy Little Japan.

洛克洛克洛克 [网易四川省成都市手机网友]:

If it was illegal, you’d go arrest them?

天下无公 [网易湖南省手机网友]:

What to wear is a basic human right.

嘣巴儿噔 [网易浙江省宁波市手机网友]:


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Written by Fauna

Fauna is a mysterious young Shanghainese girl who lives in the only place a Shanghainese person would ever want to live: Shanghai. In mid-2008, she started chinaSMACK to combine her hobby of browsing Chinese internet forums with her goal of improving her English. Through her tireless translation of popular Chinese internet news and phenomenon, her English has apparently gotten dramatically better. At least, reading and writing-wise. Unfortunately, she's still not confident enough to have written this bio, about herself, by herself.

  • JayJay

    This is stupid and petty behaviour of the mainlanders. I would understand if the flag on the T-shirt is the swastika equivalent in Japan, then it is probably inappropriate. But it isn’t, and I think it is what the Japanese Navy use it today.

    But what a lot of Chinese failed to realise is, when they go home, some of them may be driving Toyota cars, watching Sony TV, using Toshiba laptop, taking pictures with Cannon camera, reading OncePiece manga and watch Japanese AV. In this day and age of globalisation, isn’t it better to get together and make money? The fact of the matter is, as a society, Japan is superior, and there is no denying that.

    • Exman

      You’re a fucking idiot. Just because the Japanese navy use it today doesn’t mean it’s right. It’s the equivalent of the German navy using the swastika again. The Japanese love trying to desensitise their evil flag just so they could express their pride in expressing nationalist undertones. The Rising Sun Flag is a symbol of an era in Japan which supported genocide of Chinese people and it also represented the Japanese people’s belief that they were a superior people. They seem to have deliberately tried to desensitise people to the flag by trying to commercialise the symbol just so they could use it.

      It doesn’t matter whether the rising sun flag is the nazi equivalent to Japan because it isn’t to them, they love it and endorse it. Your stupid logic is like saying if Germans love the Swastika then it isn’t inappropriate. It is inappropriate because it represents a regime which killed many people. Using a Japanese product is completely fucking different because it depends on whether that product is a symbol of an evil imperialist racist regime. A toshiba computer is not. You have so many logical fallacies in your comment it’s funny to see how stupid you are. So go and fuck yourself you dumb cunt.

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        “It’s rare to see Chinese people stand up for themselves like this in foreign countries.”

        I agreed with u right up till you played the victim card. Jumping on the anti-japan bandwagon is hardly courageous, in a country nearly obsessed with bashing japan for past atrocities

      • JayJay

        Wow. Swear much? Are you having your period or something?

        I am saying a lot of Chinese are hypocritical in the way that it is OK to use Japanese product and at the same time hate Japan. And if they hate Japan that much, why would they want to use any Japanese products? They clearly have Japan very much, maybe all of Japan, or just the right wing revisionists? Or maybe this is just one of those ‘shit you don’t do’ in China, much like, you don’t draw a cartoon that has Mohammed, the Prophet?

        Swastika is banned in Germany, quite right and I do have an issue with Japanese revisionists trying to downplay what they did in WWII. But my understanding is that the Swastika represents the Nazi party and Nazi Germany and the fascist idea, but the Rising Sun just represents Japanese Navy by and large, which I would say is different to the effect of a Swastika. I don’t think it represents an idea and the Japan in WWII in a modern day setting. Depending, of course, the context, such as right wing Japanese using it on their own special occasions, but it is used much more widely than that. You may see a sushi restaurant flying the same flag, but I doubt the staff has anything to do with revisionist ideas. The guy might just be wearing it as he served in the Navy or he just like navy. It would be different if he is a right wing Japanese revisionist, then he is asking for it. IMO, it is probably used in the same way as the German Iron Cross, although, I understand the Germans did change it slightly post war.

        I appreciate what you saying, save for the part where you called me a ‘cunt’ and a ‘f**king idiot’, which shows real maturity btw. But I suppose my point is these people’s action did not go through objective thought process. All they see is that ‘flag’ and it is ‘bad’. It may not have occurred to them that the ‘flag’ might represent something else, that he might not be what they thought it represented.

        P.S. Alex Dương has kindly pointed out that it did say ‘Imperial Japanese Army’ which I did miss. In which case, the guy is probably sailing a little too close to the wind, and asking for it.

        • guest

          All this talk of Swastika, anyone notice the tattoo of one on the girl arm in the last article , last photo bottom left.

          Yep I note it is drawn the correct way for religious meanings, but alas I doubt the girl is really religious…

          Should we be jumping on the bandwagon cursing her?

      • guest

        > It’s the equivalent of the German navy using the swastika again.

        Just tell me why it’s an equivalent of swastika because I heard it many times and don’t know what’s the basis on which you evaluate flags being equal to smth or smth else. I can understand that Chinese people can have a trouble with it as it’s a straight symbol of Japan winning over China whichhappened only when Japanese ships started to use it in XIX century. First Sino-Japanese, Second, invasion of China – in all of that Rising Sun Flag was crushing Chinese navies (whatever their names were at the time). That reasoning I can understand but what does it have with nowadays? Mexicans should be pissed off everytime they see US flag on the same basis?

        I call those arguments bullshit.

        • Alex Dương

          That reasoning I can understand but what does it have with nowadays?

          The kanji on his shirt mean “Imperial Japanese Navy,” which does not exist anymore and was a branch of an Empire that caused immense suffering to China and its people. So indeed, his shirt has nothing to do with the present; he is stuck in the past.

          • netouyo

            ”he is stuck in the past.”
            No he was just wearing what he likes, that is all.

      • I’m pretty sure the Rising Sun was used way before WWII. So in simple terms, Rising Sun =/= Swatiska.

      • Jahar

        Honest question. Was the Japanese Empire seeking the extermination of the Chinese race? Or were they just brutal invaders in a place known for brutality, with the means to do it on a scale never before seen?

        • netouyo

          good old taiwanese have the answers

      • Frank

        death to all communists, leftists marxists scum

    • Alex Dương

      But it isn’t,…

      Depends on who you ask.

      …and I think it is what the Japanese Navy use it today.

      True, but in this guy’s case, the kanji on his shirt say “Imperial Japanese Navy,” not “Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force.”

      • JayJay

        In which case, some lynching is needed.

        • Alex Dương

          I agree with you that “the guy is probably sailing a little too close to the wind, and asking for it.”

    • facepalm

      Your statement is ignorant.

      It’s not so much about hating the Japanese as it is about hating that they’re still being so disrespectful. Not every Japanese is evil and most Chinese know that(minus some retards of course), and acknowledge the all the good aspects of Japanese culture. In fact most Chinese are really fine with the majority of the peace loving citizens of Japan, and many also respect some of veterans of the Japanese army from WWII who stayed behind to help as a way of atonement(i.e. they get that they were wrong, owned up like HONORABLE, DECENT HUMAN BEINGS and did good deeds to pay for their sins during the war. They are, in turn, loved by the Chinese people).

      What people hate is what the flag stands for. It is exactly the same as what the swastika stood for the Germany in that era, and frankly speaking, it should not be in use anymore. The reason why you think it’s okay, is precisely because they are still using it (mind you at the protest of China and Korea), that makes and slowly people are not realizing what it really stood for.

      And this is precisely why China and Korea are still outraged by the actions of Japan. There’s no point in apologizing then flat-out denying it afterwards, or continuing on the offensive actions afterwards, ’cause then the apology is not sincere, therefore does not count, hence victims are still raging.

    • Janus

      Plenty of Jews driving german cars, riding german trains and using german electronics. And yet they still condemn the Nazis whenever they can.

      • firebert5

        They also typically differentiate the Nazis of a generation ago and modern Germans. But, I would say that while there are strong parallels between the Germans and Jews and the Japanese and Chinese during WWII, those parallels ended at the end of the war when the Germans and Jews both made particular decisions about their future relationship, and the Japanese and Chinese made very different decisions about their own future relationship.

        Of course, this guy in the shirt was obviously trolling regardless and was clearly asking for it.

  • A long way from home

    It’s easy to be a tough guy when there’s zero risk involved. Just like when people started smashing up stuff back in 2012 I think it was. People who normally don’t even dare face a barking dog, but when there’s a safe outlet for their frustration with life they come out of the woodwork. And when they have satisfied their urges they go home and watch anime, jack off to Sora Aoi and go to sleep, proud of how they defended the motherland.

    • WFH

      on one ever questions any form of patriotism in US, but when it’s expressed in some other country, it’s just a load of bravado??

  • Boob 2000

    Try wearing a swastika in Israel. A real trouble maker or no common sense. Don’t condone violence, but what did he expect.

    • namepen

      Did Japan murder 6 million people purely on the grounds of their ethnic background/sexual orientation in purpose built industrialized death camps?

      What China suffered was a brutal invasion and occupation for which they deserve sympathy, but it was not anywhere close to what Jews, Gypsies and LGBTQ people went through in Europe.

      Also considering that China has been responsible for some pretty brutal invasions and suppression of minority cultures well within living memory, I don’t really think they have the right to play the victim too much.

      • actionjksn

        During Mao’s regime he murdered many times more Chinese citizens in various ways than Hitler did Jews. There doesn’t seem to be the outrage over that.

        • Janus

          yes yes, nothing wrong with killing Chinese because they kill themselves too. You are a genius.

          • actionjksn

            I never said that there is nothing wrong with killing Chinese you stupid bitch. I said they should be more pissed off at the one who killed over a 100 million than the ones that killed 10 or 20 million. Try and learn reading comprehension, dumb ass.

          • Common Sense

            Try communicating in a civil manner, actionjksn. There are plenty of people who are outraged over Mao’s regime. That doesn’t mitigate what Japan did.

          • actionjksn

            Read my previous comment, I was perfectly civilized until she tried accusing me of saying something I never said or implied.

            All Janus has to do to get a civil conversation out of me, is to not twist around what I say and make blatantly false accusations. It’s real simple.

            That is the kind of stuff politicians and lawyers do, I’m not a politician or a lawyer and I will not tolerate it.

          • christina

            your slur was absolutely uncalled for and you could have shot down Janus’ perceived accusation and clarified your own point without it. being so easy to anger isn’t good for your liver yo

          • Janus

            So by your logic, why are the Chinese even pissed off at Mao? I mean the Chinese and everybody else should be most pissed off at Genghis Khan then, since him and his lot pretty much killed the most people in history.

          • Brido227

            You’re probably missing the distinction between “allowed to die through mistake, incompetence, indifference or bloody-minded self-belief with a leavening of deliberate policy” and “deliberately setting out to kill as the intended result of state policy.”

        • SonofSpermcube

          Outrage against Japan is safe, that’s external. Outrage directed inwards is the last thing the Chinese government wants. That’s pretty much the point of every nationalistic outburst in China these days.

      • Janus

        Are you serious? You are using the perceived level of suffering as an argument now? That murder based on ‘ethnic’ cleansing is somehow worse than murder for any other reason?
        The fact that you claim the massacre of Chinese civilians during the war was ‘not anywhere close’ to ‘Jews, Gypsies and LGBTQ’ show just how ignorant you are on the subject and how senile your comment is.
        And as to your last argument, by your logic, no culture/people/nation has the right to be victims because all peoples have been responsible for invasion and suppressions in their histories, or even currently, considering what is happening in Palestine at the moment.

        • Mind you the Imperial Japanese Navy is indeed awesome and great if you think about it more openly. For example, their Navy is great when you see it in a “Kantai Collection” way. See? POSITIVE THINKING! Japanese battleships are awesome, so I don’t see what’s wrong with it. It’s all part of history, no? If his T-shirt wrote “Kamikaze forever” then that would more provoking. But if it was “Zeros forever” then it would mean a different thing since the Zero was indeed an awesome aircraft and a work of art. Imperial Japanese Navy can really mean anything. From the Navy itself or the fleets themselves.

          • Common Sense

            I get the feeling that “Joji Maou” is a 14 year old with a hard on for anime and Japan. I really don’t understand where you’re getting these ideas from. Nanking as an exaggerated incident where the Chinese are looking for pity? Japan as the defender of Asia from Western colonization? Either you’ve been sipping some serious Japanese far right propaganda-kool aid or you’re a serious (and good) troll.

          • Misiooo

            “Common sense”…yes… reminds me of this saying, apologies for this colloquialism: eat shit, millions of flies cannot be wrong.
            Now to Joji: take it easy man. If you think you can reason with brainwashed masses, you’re wasting your time. Date a nice girl (or two), have a beer or read a good book and let other people be what (yes, not who) they are.

          • Common Sense

            Lol looks like we have an even bigger troll here. I really can’t believe the kind of people that surface up on this site, like the nazi apologists.

          • shalom69

            Why can’t you believe that apologists show up on what’s essentially a nationalism site?

            The people who post here are more or less the fringe element of society constituting the China Stronk segment plus those who troll them. Obviously the countermeasure to the rah rah China sentiment will be the odd troll who goes pro-Japan, US, Korea w/e

          • Joe

            The continuous glorification of Japanese battleships like the Yamato and the Zero fighter in anime, manga, and films only reflect the same type of collective delusion that exist in post-war Japan.

            No the complete destruction of the combined fleet and the death of thousands is not awesome, the Yamato sunk without firing a single shot in anger with all hands on-board is not awesome, the use of Zero in kamikaze attacks leading to the death of thousands of Japanese pilots is not awesome, there is nothing awesome about war.

          • I originally replied to you via Google+ when I couldn’t comment here, but I’ll repost it for everyone to read:

            If the continuous glorification of Japanese battleships like
            the Yamato and the Zero fighter in anime, manga, and films only reflect the
            same type of collective delusion that exist in post-war Japan, then I would
            argue the same for American glorification of guns, sex, and war. Let me see,
            Americans like to glorify war so much in their video games and movies, I think
            we’re all being brainwashed for watching and playing all those American made
            entertainment. It’s all part of our lives and we can’t stop but being delusional
            about it. What sells, sells I guess. I mean, for Kantai Collection, the whole
            point of the game is moe and national pride of Japanese warships. Sure it’s
            saddening that Yamato failed to launch a single missile upon its enemies (for
            the Japanese people that is, and according to you), but I’d like to think of it
            as love towards engineering and design, instead of simple glorification for
            Imperial Japan. Now, I’m personally not a fan of Imperial Japan. I don’t like
            how they committed numerous atrocities, but I like their vehicles, I like their
            flag designs, and I like learning the truth behind some of their horrible
            history during WWII. You see, I want to be an engineer when I enter college, so
            that’s why I’m a big fanboy when it comes to war vehicles.

            And as for the Zero, even my Chinese friend has a plastic
            model of a zero in his living room, and he’s a dad! The Zero is awesome not
            because it has anything to do with the kamikaze. The Zero is awesome because it’s
            a work of art, it’s highly aero dynamic, and it’s a really fast plane. I love
            the technical aspects of the design regardless of its no-armor flaw. I like the
            Zero not because it was flown by the Kamikaze, or it brings glory to the
            Imperial Air force, it’s because I like the design of the plane. It’s a cool
            plane, that’s all. Don’t worry; I know in full detail that the Kamikaze’s
            suicide bombings were in vain. It is disgusting of Hihiroto to brainwash these
            poor civilians and turning them into disposable human meat. Japan should never
            revive the Kamikaze program. It is a disgusting program in my opinion.

        • namepen

          Look, it is not up for debate, the Holocaust and the Japanese war crimes in China were not in any way similar.

          The Japanese atrocities were the consequence of it’s brutal invasion, similar to the actions of many brutal invaders down the centuries. It doesn’t mean that there weren’t horrific crimes committed by the Japanese, but it wasn’t a Holocaust.

          The Holocaust is a singular event in human history.

          Minorities such as the Jews were taken from their lives irrespective of their nationality or class and sent to die in purpose built death factories.

          They were a tiny minority that had no country and were no threat to their murderers. They didn’t have an army and they didn’t have a government.

          Their entire race and culture was marked for complete destruction simply out of hate for who they were.

          Your attempts to link it to the Japanese in China are similar to the attempts by others to use the memory of the victims for unrelated modern day gripes.

          No amount of unlettered and ahistorical ranting can change the fact that it is shameful to abuse the memories of the victims of the Holocaust in that way.

          You should be ashamed of yourself.

          • Kai

            Boob’s point was that certain symbols as associated with a lot of ill-will, so wearing such symbols among people who have those associations is a bad idea.

            Your response was to jump on the analogy he used to illustrate his point. In doing so, you came across–perhaps inadvertently–as downplaying the grievances Chinese people have with regards to their suffering at the hands of Imperial Japan, particularly with the “not anywhere close” remark.

            Sure, the German genoicde of the Jews was far more systematic than Japan’s atrocities against the Chinese. In that “systematic” sense, “not anywhere close” may be reasonable. Unfortunately, you still came across as suggesting the pain and loss the Chinese suffered was “not anywhere close” to the Jews, gypsies, LGBTQs in Europe and thus the Chinese should not have such an adverse reaction to a “imperial Japanese Navy” rising sun symbol being proudly worn around in China.

            On an individual level, I’m pretty sure there were too many Chinese people who suffered insult, humiliation, pain, and death comparable to what the Jews, gypsies, and LGBTQs in Europe did. Level of suffering in this probably isn’t a smart thing to try arguing. We should just conclude that it was equally deplorable, meaning so far beyond “wrong” that it no longer matters. A Jewish Holocaust victim isn’t going to tell a Chinese WW2 victim that the latter’s suffering and loss is “not anywhere close” because the latter wasn’t herded around in box cars.

            I think Janus’s reply to you should’ve helped you identify some of the above as well as the box of worms you opened up for yourself the last paragraph of your response expressing distaste with China playing the victim. I actually thought you expressed it fair enough, but felt you should’ve anticipated it as a dead end. Every country and society happily plays the victim to its convenience pointing fingers condemning others. People are hypocrites like that.

            Look, it is not up for debate, the Holocaust and the Japanese war crimes in China were not in any way similar.

            The problem is, a statement like that is definitely up for debate. The Holocaust and the Japanese war crimes in China had many things “similar”. The victims were often regarded as inferior beings, humiliated, dehumanized, abused, tortured, arbitrarily murdered for sport or on a whim. The number of victims were high enough that it was already beyond reprehensible and shocking. The sick shit that was done to victims in both theaters were similarly beyond disturbing.

            No one said they were the exact same in every regard. Boob only pointed out how certain symbols are not welcomed among certain people. He nor anyone else in this thread as far as I can see tried to “debate” you that the Japanese war crimes were the same as the Holocaust. You on the other hand going out on a limb to say they were “not in any way similar” opens you up to attack.

            Boob’s point was pretty simple and–I think–common sense. I think you read too much into it, and your own remarks incited debate for yourself.

          • namepen

            I have no problem with a debate and I know that if I write on CS, JC or KB that the Japanese were/are not the personification of evil then I am going to get savaged by the unhinged illiterati who have an axe to grind.

            The motivation and methodology of the Holocaust was completely different to those in China. That is not an opinion, it is simply a fact.

            My question is why is there a need for an equivalence? Were the crimes of the Japanese not severe enough?

          • Alex Dương

            I have no problem with a debate and I know that if I write on CS, JC or KB that the Japanese were/are not the personification of evil then I am going to get savaged by the unhinged illiterati who have an axe to grind.

            The Japanese were not “the personification of evil.” Events like the Holocaust, the Rape of Nanjing, the Rwandan Genocide and many others show that “normal people” can easily commit atrocities when they don’t view humans as humans but rather as subhuman “others.”

          • Kai

            As far as generalizations go, you can write that the Japanese were/are not the personifcation of evil on cS fairly safely without getting savaged. The community on cS is generally biased in favor of the Japanese over the Chinese, reflecting real world Cold-War, capitalist-democracy vs. communist partisanship. It’s usually about holding up the polite, civilized, developed Japanese over the crude, uncouth Chinese peasants.

            I know there is a small band of very vocal Korean hypernationalists on kB and jC, so if that’s where you’re usually commenting, I don’t blame you for being wary, but cS is pretty safe territory for you because even the most vocal Chinese nationalists here get reliably dog-piled and marginalized by the more dominant and vocal Western/international crowd.

            That said, no one said the motivation and methodology of the Holocaust was the same as what happened in China. No one said such a statement was an “opinion”.

            Nor did anyone seek equivalence. All Boob did was use an analogy to illustrate a point about symbols and their effects on certain groups of people. Analogies hinge upon an equivalence of a notion to help people understand one thing by using an example that may be more familiar to them, but equivalence of notion is not perfect equivalence of fact.

            Note that no one is saying what the Japanese did is the exact same as the Holocaust. They are saying what the Japanese did remains in the memory of the Chinese, just like how a Nazi symbol in Israel would incite the memory of the Holocaust. If you can understand one, you can understand the other, and that understanding doesn’t require believing that the two things are exactly equivalent, just similar enough. And they were. Both were traumatic to its victims and their society, so much that the memory has not faded away. The crimes of both were similarly “severe enough”.

            Try to accept Boob’s analogy for what it is, and save your objections for someone who is actually arguing for perfect equivalence.

          • KenjiAd

            I agree with you. Comparing the Holocaust with the war atrocity committed by the Imperial Japanese Army (IJA) in Nanjing can be problematic.

            The Holocaust (with capital H) is much better known than any other atrocities. So once you borrow a word “holocaust” (small h) to describe another massacre, it tends to create psychological comparisons (e.g., Chinese vs Jews) that may not always be useful to understand the atrocity for which the word “holocaust” was borrowed. I’m also under the impression that many Holocaust historians get offended by it.

            There is an interesting article about this topic that I would like to share with cS readers – “Forgetting and Denying: Iris Chang, the Holocaust and challenge of Nanking.” by Prof MacDonald at University of Otago, New Zealand.


            Iris Chang is the author of a best seller “The Rape of Nanking:The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II.” (Emphasis mine)

            I quote from Prof MacDonald’s article below.

            This article problematizes representations of Chinese victimization during World War II as a ‘Holocaust’ or ‘Forgotten Holocaust’. Literature on the Jewish Holocaust suggests that comparing other genocides to it benefits the non-Jewish group. Opinions differ as to whether Jewish history suffers, and whether such comparisons are justified. Using studies of the Rape of Nanking in 1937 by Iris Chang and Chinese Diaspora groups, I argue that while using the Holocaust as a means of packaging Chinese suffering may initially stimulate interest, and help to highlight the problems of Japanese denialism, extending such parallels too far creates problems of representation. This includes distorting the roles of victimized and perpetrator nations, decontextualizing victims and events, while advancing a number of inaccurate comparisons with both Germans and Jews

            What the historical narrative of the Nanjing Massacre currently lacks (and desperately needs) is the human stories of the Chinese victims. They are not just numbers. They had the lives that were taken away.

            The websites dedicated to commemorate the Nanjing Massacre and Chang’s book consisted of numerous photos of the atrocities, testimonies of the Western observers, and even some confessions of the former Japanese soldiers, but no human stories of the victims.

            Actually the only human stories I’m personally aware of were documented by a Japanese journalist named Katsuichi Honda ( ), who published a series of reports when, as a young journalist of Asahi in 70’s, he was tracing back the same route as the Imperial Japanese Army on their way to Nanjing. During the trip, Honda interviewed many survivors or the families of the Nanjing Massacre (they were still alive in 70’s). This is a must read for anyone interested in the human stories of Nanjing massacre ( )

          • namepen

            Thank you those links were very interesting

          • quest

            Just a little hope that people do know there are so many fake photos included in Iris Chang’s book , with even photos of Japanese victims used as if happnede in Nanjing Massacre. Iris Chang did not even respond well to numerous questions from Japanese academia and paased away. Katsuichi-Honda, said to be ex-korean nationalized, created fabricated story so called Massacre of Nanjing.

          • Janus

            Just a little hope that people do know there are so many fake photo of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ‘bombing’ used as if happened in those cities (I mean the big cloud is just a big mushroom!). most Japanese authors did not even respond well to numerous questions from western academia and continued to live on. Americans who say is true, are said to be ex-japanese nationalized created fabricated story so called atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima

      • mr.wiener

        Playing a numbers game between the nazis and WW2 Japan isn’t helpful. Rightly or wrongly (in your view) the people of China still have very strong feelings about what happened in the war, even if this is often cynically exploited by their own govt.
        At the end of the day this about some attention whore opening a dam of bitterness that it is permisable for Chinese people to feel, unlike that for the great leap forward or cultural revelution.

        • namepen

          It is not about numbers and no amount of hurt on the part of the Chinese can change the fact that the Japanese war crimes in China was not a Holocaust.

          I find it offensive that people keep taking the horrors suffered by the victims of the holocaust and using it in their petty international disputes.

          What happened to China was bad, but it needs to be remembered as it really was and not by conflating it with the planned destruction of entire races.

          • shalom69

            Your argument is the same trope: “nothing can be as bad as the Holocaust.”

            As a Jew I’ll say that there’s no way to substantiate the 6 million number. There’s literally no way to match up the names with the figures. Whatever the true figure, it was a horrendous number… after the war we started with around a 500,000 Jews and it went up over the years. But the 6 million number has long been associated with the holocaust of the Jewish race, which was a boogeyman of zionism starting in the late 1800s. In other words Jewish activists long predicted (correctly) the attempted extermination of the Jewish people by white bigots, and the magic number of the extermination of the Jews was always 6 millions. You can go to speeches advocating a Homeland for the Jews in 1918 or 1935 and get that same 6 million number for the genocide of the Jews.

            Bottom line is that the Imperial Japanese were the same Fascists as the Nazis. They subscribed to the same ideology, methods and goals. They committed like atrocities. The only reason Chinese were not gassed en mas is because the Nazis viewed the Jews as a unproductive “virus” to the body politic to be lanced, while the primary Japanese motivation for the invasion of China was for war material and labor.

            In other words the Germans killed the Jews because Jews were seen as unfit or unable to advance the German war effort (in fact counterproductive towards it) while the Japanese needed the Chinese the fuel their wars in the Pacific and beyond. That’s the only thing that distinguishes what happened to the Chinese versus the Jews. It has nothing to do with your childish valuation of the horrors of people being gasses versus the horrors of people being dismembered and tortured as in Nanking, experimented upon like US POW and other atrocities elsewhere during WWII.

            Finally the Nazis themselves didn’t define themselves nor are they defined purely by the Holocaust. It’s not like they started the war to kill Jews. Jew killing was a leg in what was planned to be a wide agenda of ethnic cleansing, forced labor (slavery) and atrocities they had planned. For example they planned to put Poland and Eastern Europe to pasture as the Mongols threatened to do to North China, enslave all remaining Slavs after having exterminated a good percentage of the population (including perhaps 10x the 6 million number we use today of murdered Jews). This in turn wasn’t an end in itself but the social corollary of Nazi military conquest, which was their primary agenda. Japan was exactly same in this ideology and methodology. It’s asinine to regard Imperial Japan as anything but the perfect analogue to Nazi Germany.

            That you have this stick up your ass about the Holocaust like some Evangenlical fixated on the Passion just means you’re the typical American long on tooth and short on knowledge & perspective.

      • Doel

        No,Japs didn’t build death camps,they just brutally slaughter everyone they don’t like or people(especially Chinese) who dare to oppose them,or send them to “death factory” to do their “Human subject research”. Japs didn’t build death camps,they just caused nearly 30 millions deaths and countless suffering,losses,tortures in half of the world without any penitence till nowadays.

      • Qoaa

        6 million is an inflated number, my grandmother was in Auschwitz and is ashamed at the number being inflated every 10 years.

        She has a newspapers showing 760,000 plus 50,000 estimated Roma. Then in mid 50s it became 1.5 million Jews , 25,000 Roma.

        Mid 60s was 3 million

        Mid 70s became 4 and half million

        80s after the Shoah documentary a 9 hour documentary the number was artificially inflated to 6 million.

        My grandparents say impossible, all lies, the real number is still atrocious between 700,000 and 1 million Jew and between 50,000 and 100,000 Roma

        This from a camp survivor

    • Disney English

      That flag is the flag of Japan’s navy to this day. It is not at all comparable to a swastika.

      • Alex Dương

        Yes and no. Yes, it is the naval ensign of the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force. But the kanji on the guy’s shirt say “Imperial Japanese Navy.” Put the two together, and it is comparable to a swastika.

      • Alan Dale Brown

        Maybe it’s more like wearing a confederate flag in an African American neighborhood. Some people say the confederate flag has everything to do with Southern Pride, and nothing to do with slavery. Others beg to differ … It remained part of the flags of many southern states for over 100 years after the civil war.

  • “the man saying he had grown up in Japan since he was small, that this is how he dressed in Japan, that he hasn’t had a problem wearing this anywhere else, so how come it isn’t acceptable in Tai’an?”

    Quote from the comments above (not sure if “wearing this anywhere else” meant in other places in China?)
    I suspect most people here are international travelers…
    * If traveling to a foreign country and doing things to intentionally upset those in the host country, don’t be surprised if someone eventually comes along who won’t be diplomatic about it (or ignore it). If someone was walking around with a T-shirt glorifying 9-11 in the USA, I imagine a lot of people would ignore it, but eventually, they will meet someone who will confront them.
    * If traveling to a foreign country, it’s possible to be ignorant of their history & culture. Maybe they will cut you a foreigner a break, but maybe trouble can be averted by being alert and aware/sensitive to these differences/red flags (that are unknown and even may not make any sense to you).

  • FYIADragoon

    “People [mainlanders] are too brainwashed, always feeling they are the weaker party.”

    I don’t think its a matter of just feeling. Wouldn’t need a million different insults for a country if you felt a measure of self-confidence….

  • Amused

    Ahhhh, let that good healthy hate out China :) You’ve got to love living in a place where they can hate so blindly. Really gives you hope for wherever you come from. Every country has their own set of problems and deficiencies, but few could ever work themselves up to be so rabidly patriotic over a war that ended 70 years ago. Patriotic to the point of gladly involving themselves as a group in what would be at best assault in most civilizations, just out of solidarity. Sweeeeeeeeeet :D
    Seriously hope they can grow up BEFORE starting WW3.

    • Alex Dương

      Put on a Waffen-SS uniform in Israel. Let us know how it goes.

      • Amused

        Wow, they’re allowed to hate, so we can too??? Look where their hate and fear has gotten them. Embroiled in a war they will NEVER win. Personally I’d like to hope China could do a little better than that. They hate ALL who stand against them… Don’t be them.

        • Alex Dương

          It has nothing to do with tu quoque. If you want to “move on,” then don’t put on a shirt that says “Imperial Japanese Navy” on it. Put on a shirt that says “Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force.”

          Also, I doubt whether even Neturei Karta would find it acceptable to put on a Waffen-SS uniform in Israel.

          • Amused

            So what? All you’re saying is that Israel is a fucked up place. Anyone who can follow basic politics or sociology knows this. So is the entire Middle East. Break out your Star of David and your yamaka in Iran, see how that works out. You aspire to the heights of Iranian civilization? Wear an American flag whilst crossing the North Korean border. Wow, that’s bad too? Well you can surely be as civil and respectable as them! Pfffft. Have higher standards.

          • Alex Dương

            You’re still stuck in an anti-tu quoque mindset. This has nothing to do with tu quoque. “Moving on” is a two-way street. You can’t wear a swastika (or in this case, a rising sun flag that explicitly refers to Imperial Japan and not modern Japan) and say that whoever calls you out on it is “stuck in the past.” That’s absurdly hypocritical.

          • Amused

            Chief I don’t care if a guy wants to wear a Swastika, a Klan uniform, a Black Panther outfit, a jihadi camelfucker suit, a full Jappo period piece dress uniform, Red Guard armband, bondage gear, or a fucking clown costume. I just look at him and am glad this particular ignorant dickhead has been kind enough to make himself easily identifiable. I might give him stink eye or even say some nasty shit to him. What I won’t do is assault him. Because it’s wrong to attack people with different beliefs(no matter how odious) without physical provocation. The thing that separates decent people from skinheads, is decent people won’t attack you in the street for having a different opinion.

          • Alex Dương

            I agree that they should not have assaulted him. I think you should have emphasized that originally instead of playing the “get over it, it was 70 years ago” card.

          • Amused

            Hey I agree with you that “moving on is a two way street”. Both countries have some growing up to do. But the Chinese are the ones still harboring hate. Japs are just trying to corner the market on wounded pride and arrogance. They both need to be the figurative ” bigger man” and try to be better friends and neighbors. Because no one REALLY wants a rematch.

          • Alex Dương

            I agree.

          • netouyo

            Hey Dont call us Japs.

          • Amused

            And you prefer?

          • SongYii

            I want a rematch…. but this time should be settled with a dance off.

          • Teacher in China

            If someone wore a shirt up here in Dongbei with “Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force” on it, the result would be exactly the same as in the above story….

          • Alex Dương

            True. But in that case, he (Amused) would have been able to justifiably say that the people were stuck in the past.

      • hess

        More like a kriegsmarine shirt

      • YourSupremeCommander

        A lot of well to do Jews drive… BMWs and Benzes. Just so you know.

        • Alex Dương

          Neither auto maker has a swastika in any part of its logo or otherwise references the Third Reich / the Holocaust.

  • mike921

    And this clown expected the people to approve of his shirt?

  • YourSupremeCommander

    Jap t-shirt, Yankee tat… so what else does he have? A HITLER MUSTACHE?

  • actionjksn

    In the USA, you can legally wear swastikas and Ku Klux Klan symbols on your shirt around black people if you want to. But if you do you will probably be beaten up worse than this guy. Just because something is legal, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

    • KamikaziPilot

      “It is strange that they hold a grudge against the Japanese but yet not seem to have a problem with the mass killing committed by Chairman Mao.”

      Actually it’s not strange at all. Whether you want to believe it’s propaganda or support for a domestic leader (albeit a mass murderer) supposedly keeping China safe from foreigners, it happens in other places too, such as with Stalin and the Soviet Union. Maybe also comparable to how family members view an abusive household member. While I’m pretty sure most Chinese know Mao killed many of their fellow citizens, that gets overshadowed by the perception that he kept China safe from foreign interference. That’s an important note because of the history of China being subjugated by foreign powers. It’s actually a pretty common feeling among people, that they focus their attention on the crimes of outsiders rather than one of “their own”.

      • actionjksn

        You were the only one who seemed to be capable of giving an intelligent answer to my question or observation. Everybody else, like mainly Janus started just saying that I thought that what the Japanese did was okay or that beating your kids was okay or something.

    • Janus

      So say for example that you beat your kids. Does that mean its ok for me to come and beat your kids too?

      • SongYii

        No, but it does not make you less guilty of child abuse just because you are the parent.

        • Janus

          nor does it make the other person less guilty. But seems like if the child holds a grudge against the parent, everybody would applaud him, but if he speaks out against the other person, all of a sudden its ‘oh but look at your parents!’

          hypocrisy indeed

          • SongYii

            your analogies here and above dont make any sense… and yet, you get upvotes.

            the world is upside down.

      • Rick in China

        Hahahaha, that’s so stupid it’s amusing to see who upvotes it. First of all, your statement is stupid because it implies (but does not say) that beating your kids is “ok” as long as YOU are the one doing it. Do you seriously think beating your kids is OK? Next, you’re implying that how parents treat their children is the equivalent of how a government treats the nation’s citizens. Do you REALLY think the government’s job is equivalent to a parent’s job, and the relationship is similar? I don’t even want to continue..

        • Kai

          The same can be said about your comment and the people upvoting it.

          I don’t see how his statement implies that beating one’s kids is “ok” as long it is the parent doing it. Therefore, I don’t see how it is stupid. What I do see is you misinterpreting a valid point about people commonly having different reactions to in-group out-group.

          This point–which I also thought was obvious–was made in direct relevant response to actionjksn’s misguided juxtaposition with Chinese sentiments about Mao.

          @disqus_C99dyOS3fU:disqus’s point by way of analogy was simple. People who may forgive the trespasses of those they consider part of their in-group may not extend the same forgiveness to those they consider part of an out-group.

          When this directly and partially but significantly explains the seeming difference in public expressions of resentment regarding the Japanese and Mao among Chinese people, why is it “so stupid”?

          Rick, I know you well enough to say you are not stupid enough to have failed to understand Janus’s point relative to actionjksn’s comment, so I’m at a loss to why you’ve played stupid insinuating that he thinks parents beating their kids is “ok”. It is precisely because I know you are not that stupid that I’m forced to conclude you’re intentionally trolling him.

          I seriously hope you were drunk, because this is one of the stupidest reactions and misinterpretations/misrepresentations of another person’s comment that I have ever seen coming from your literally thousands of comments on cS. I simply cannot understand how you failed to understand the analogy being made. The source of the upvotes you’ve gotten aren’y entirely surprising but they remind me of why I weep for humanity.

          • Rick in China

            What? Are you seriously intentionally misreading or misinterpreting language to fit your want-to-be narrative? I would try to quote parts of his statement, but it’s so short and clear, that it needs the entire thing to be quoted and read again to see how it implies that beating your kids is OK:

            “So say for example that you beat your kids. Does that mean its ok for me to come and beat your kids too?”

            The response is IT’S NOT OK FOR ANYONE TO BEAT YOUR KIDS! Including you. In fact, it’s probably worse for YOU to beat your kids than someone else – I’d like to request confirmation by psychologist, but I would imagine that beating your own kids would result in far greater mental damage than a stranger, causing long-term damage in so many ways. The quote absolutely implies it’s OK for you to do it but not OK for others to do it. How? Because it ends with: TOO. I suggest you edit your response before you’re once again pegged with extreme bias and justification in defense of someone sitting in an indefensible position.. or did you simply not read the “too”, or do you simply not know that adding “too” implies that it’s also OK to perform given action in the first case?

          • Kai

            You’re scaring the shit out of me, Rick.

            1. Are you really unable to comprehend making a point by way of analogy?

            2. Are you really unable to interpret Janus’s comment in the context of it being a response to actionjksn’s comment?

            Your misinterpretation of his comment would be amusing as a literalist analysis of semantics and sentence construction IF his was a stand-alone comment devoid of any other context that provides guidance to what he’s trying to say.

            But it isn’t.

            You could’ve humorously poked fun at him for the “too” and its implications if you wanted to be a grammar nazi. Instead, you’re completely ignoring context, ignoring that it is clearly an analogy meant to illustrate a point, and derailing the conversation into this being some sort of smoking gun indictment that @Janus is some sort of child-abuse advocate?

            Are you serious?

            Can we get back discussing actionjksn’s point and Janus’s point in response? Or do you really want to continue prosecuting Janus as a child abuser?

          • Janus

            If there ever was an occasion for *facepalm*, that was it when I read @rickinchina:disqus and @SongYii’s comments. But hey, like you said Kai, some people just can’t comprehend analogies.

            I wonder what Rick does ‘in China’. I really hope it’s not teaching English, or I would really worry for his students.

            BTW @SongYii:disqus , the whole point of analogies, through using a comparison example, situation or story, is to say something by NOT saying it. if I ‘should have said it’ like you suggested, then it wouldn’t have been an analogy. makes sense?

          • SongYii

            Ok, so… your point is that its cool for parents to beat their own children in the same way it is cool for governments to kill their own citizens, but it is not okay for other children’s parents to beat someone else’s kids the same way it is not okay for governments to kill people in foreign country.

            Really goddamn brilliant analogy, Janus. Please, keep posting everyday so the rest of us can understand the world as well as someone with your depth of insight.

          • Janus

            Yeah nah, I’m not gonna waste my time on you or to repeat myself, especially when everyone else had no problems understanding what I was trying to say.

            I may be ‘goddamn brilliant’ but nowhere near brilliant enough to educate those who insist on being wrong.

          • David

            Actually the point of using an analogy is to make a complicated point simpler to understand by using a more familiar situation. Of course in doing this you are not re-stating the original situation, but that is not the point itself.

            That being said I don’t want any part of this discussion, it does not have ‘happy ending’ written anywhere on it.

          • SongYii

            It’s really absurd.

          • Rick in China

            For christ sake, Kai, re-read my initial response.

            I said his response is STUPID because it implies beating your own child is OK, which it *does*, which makes your initial finger wagging bullshit response to me invalid. You said what, that me calling his analogy stupid, is stupid? WTF. Why, because I think an analogy about beating your own children is OK being used analogously with Mao killing Chinese citizens (which, analogously, implies that’s OK too but it’s not OK for the Japanese to have done similar)?

            Look. You’re telling me my response is stupid. I’m telling you your response is unjustified, and the analogy is STUPID, and through analogous implication it very clearly in the confines of English language allows one to interpret his position as being: Mao killing his own people is OK, because they were his people.

            His statement was very brief and very clear. You can say it’s being a language-nazi (laughable) to read what it plainly says and say “Oh how dare you read it and not make up your own mind about what he meant, TROLL” – but to me, that just means it’s impossible for me to continue a conversation with you on this topic, because you are clearly justifying shit in your head to fit a narrative that doesn’t otherwise exist.

            When you say: “misinterpretations/misrepresentations of another person’s comment” — I want you to tell me how I have done EITHER with his comment. He makes 1 clear simple point. You’re telling me I should mis-read the statement in order to properly interpret or represent his comment? What the fuck kind of logic is that. You want me to ignore some words to make up something that makes him sound better? Where do you even get off calling this out as anything more than it is? You’re plainly wrong here.

          • Kai

            Oh for the love of god.

            When you say: “misinterpretations/misrepresentations of another person’s comment” — I want you to tell me how I have done EITHER with his comment.

            I’ve already done so twice:



            He makes 1 clear simple point.

            Yes, he does. And you failed–repeatedly now–to demonstrate you understand it, despite having it spelled out for you, twice.

            You’re telling me I should mis-read the statement in order to properly interpret or represent his comment?

            No, I’m telling you to stop playing stupid. I know you are capable of reading things in context. I know you are capable of comprehending analogies. For some reason, you’ve suspended both faculties in this situation.

            You want me to ignore some words to make up something that makes him sound better?

            No, I want you to stop ignoring the comment he was responding to in order to justify your misinterpretation and misrepresentation of him promoting child abuse instead of merely using child abuse between a parent and an outsider to make the point that people react differently when things are done by someone in the in-group versus someone in the out-group.

          • SongYii

            He’s really insufferable (Kai is a man, right?). I’m wondering when he will run out of fingers to wag at people.

          • Kai

            When I run out, I go to the Weenie Tots factory.

            (Brownie points for whoever dates themselves by recognizing the reference.)

            Sean, are you the kid in school who likes to pick on other kids by letting them overhear you talking shit about them?

          • SongYii

            nah, i said that directly to you before.i just want to make sure everyone else knows.

          • SongYii

            “What I do see is you misinterpreting a valid point about people commonly having different reactions to in-group out-group.” If he meant this, he should have said it, instead of using an analogy that doesn’t say that AT ALL.

            “but they remind me of why I weep for humanity.” Omg, we caught poor Kai on his period. Rick, take it back! Take it back!

          • Kai

            A lot of people understood his analogy just fine, both here and elsewhere. That fact alone makes it questionable for you to claim it “doesn’t say that AT ALL”.

            Of course, just because others comprehended something as it was intended doesn’t mean you have to. Everyone has different reading comprehension levels or simply brainfarts.

            You just have to ask yourself if you really think it is wise to be insisting that @disqus_C99dyOS3fU:disqus was actually advocating child abuse in response to actionjksn’s comment instead of considering if you’ve totally misread him.

          • SongYii

            i never suggested he advocates child abuse and i super doubt he does. but the analogy doesnt make sense.

            you have no idea how people who award upvotes are interpreting what they read, but i think your’low reading comprehension’ explanation probably has a lot of merit.

            but while we are praising half-assedly written, meaningless comments, id like to thank you for all that you contribute to this forum. thank you, kai.

          • Kai

            i never suggested he advocates child abuse

            Dude, you upvoted Rick’s comment arguing that he was implying that beating his kid was “ok”.

            and i super doubt he does.

            But you’re not pointing that out to Rick because…?

            but the analogy doesnt make sense.

            Read it as a response to actionjksn’s original comment, because that it is what it is, a response.


            It is strange that they hold a grudge against the Japanese but yet not seem to have a problem with the mass killing committed by Chairman Mao. […] I doubt that the Japanese were as successful as Mao at killing Chinese citizens. But I don’t hear the same bitterness about that Chinese genocide.

            actionjkson points out a seeming difference in the amount of resentment against the Japanese and Mao. Both killed a lot of Chinese people, so why seemingly different levels of bitterness?


            So say for example that you beat your kids. Does that mean its ok for me to come and beat your kids too?

            He’s asking if there’s a difference between what you think about what you do to yourself and your own versus what an outsider does to you and your own.

            I can’t imagine many people saying there is no difference. As social creatures, humans tend to form in-groups and out-groups. My mom can spank me but not this stranger. I can bitch about my mom but this stranger can’t.

            Janus is responding to actionjksn’s juxtaposition of seemingly different Chinese “bitterness” between the Japanese and Mao by making this point about this difference. People tend to be a lot more forgiving of themselves and their own than they are of outsiders. That partially but significantly explains the difference that actionjksn finds so remarkable (it isn’t really remarkable as it is human).

            If by entertaining the analogy you conclude that it is not okay for him, an outsider, to come beat your kids even if you beat your own kids, then you should have immediately understood the point about in-group vs. out-group as explaining the difference that actionjksn finds so “strange”. The point of the analogy is to use a different scenario to help actionjksn realize why the difference isn’t actually strange.

            Frankly, I don’t think actionjksn genuinely finds the difference “strange” at all. He simply finds it disagreeable or even hypocritical. Give Janus some credit for giving actionjksn the benefit of the doubt and actually trying to help him understand a main reason for the difference he claimed was so “strange” to him.

            Janus does not–at any point–suggest that parents beating their kids or governments killing their own people is “cool”. The only way you could’ve arrived at that conclusion was following Rick down the rabbit hole.

            The key juxtaposition in Janus’s analogy was you (in-group) vs. him (out-group) and how you would feel about you and him doing the same thing. Why? Because that’s one insightful way to understand how Chinese people view Mao’s disastrous regime vs. Japanese invasion and occupation. Even abused children differentiate between abuse by their parents vs. abuse by strangers. They may tolerate one but not tolerate the other. They may forgive one but resent the other. Americans are more tolerant of their own government spying on them than they are of foreign governments spying on them.

            Are you seeing it yet?

            As I already granted Rick early on, there’s a way to poke fun at Janus’s comment from a literalist analysis of its semantics and sentence construction, but his comment was not “meaningless”. It was a direct, concise, poignant response to the very thing actionjksn spent two paragraphs complaining about. Somehow, Rick fails to see that connection, twists Janus’s analogy into a statement condoning child abuse, insinuates those who upvoted Janus as stupid, and 9 people including you happily upvote him.

            Insofar as you’re thanking me for contributing “half-assedly written, meaningless comments”, I am bowed over by your cleverness. Are you done trying to hurt my feelings with snide insults? Can we get back to what actionjksn said and Janus’s point in reply?

          • actionjksn

            The problem with Janus comment is that it has no merit and makes no sense in relation to my comment. Because I never at any point say nor imply that it’s okay to beat your kids. In addition to that, I also never said or implied that what the Japanese did was okay or not that bad.

            I would like you or Janus to copy and paste into quotation marks the part of my post that says what the Japanese did was not bad or not a really big deal. Or that it’s okay to beat your kids. I read my post again and I can’t find anything in my post that says that.

            I only said that there doesn’t seem to be the same outrage over the person or group that killed 120+ million, compared to the Japanese who killed a fraction of that. Of course they are both bad, but Mao and his little helpers were much more prolific at mass genocide against the Chinese. I’m not at any point absolving the Japanese for their crimes against humanity. For Janus to outright say that I am is not just misguided, it’s dishonest.

            I’ve been to Pearl Harbor and saw some of what the Japanese did to us and I’m not giving them a pass on their war crimes. I’m just not giving people like Mao or Stalin a pass either, just because they were making some patriotic speeches while murdering their own people.

          • Kai

            The problem with Janus comment is that it has no merit and makes no sense in relation to my comment. Because I never at any point say nor imply that it’s okay to beat your kids.

            He never said you did. What he did was set up his analogy:

            So say for example that you beat your kids. Does that mean its ok for me to come and beat your kids too?

            Emphasis mine. He set up an analogy to illustrate a point that directly relates (and responds) to the core of your comment. It has merit so long as it is valid in addressing the difference you find so “strange”.

            In addition to that, I also never said or implied that what the Japanese did was okay or not that bad.

            He never said you said that either.

            Wait…why do you even think he said you said that? What did he write to make you feel that he was saying you said or implied that what the Japanese did was okay or not that bad?

            I would like you or Janus to copy and paste into quotation marks the part of my post that says what the Japanese did was not bad or not a really big deal. Or that it’s okay to beat your kids. I read my post again and I can’t find anything in my post that says that.

            You should probably first copy and paste into quotation marks the part of his post that says you said those things.

            I only said that there doesn’t seem to be the same outrage over the person or group that killed 120+ million, compared to the Japanese who killed a fraction of that. Of course they are both bad, but Mao and his little helpers were much more prolific at mass genocide against the Chinese. I’m not at any point absolving the Japanese for their crimes against humanity. For Janus to outright say that I am is not just misguided, it’s dishonest.

            He didn’t outright say that, so he is neither misguided or dishonest. He used an analogy to get you to think about how people react differently to in-group vs. out-group even if the thing being done is the same.

            Let me try a slightly different analogy:

            Your brother insults your mother. A stranger insults your mother. Do you have the same reaction to both?

            Very unlikely not.

            Your father belts you. A teacher belts you. Do you have the same reaction to both?

            Very unlikely not.

            His analogy asks that if you find it acceptable to beat your kids, would you find it acceptable if someone else (Janus) comes and beats your kids.

            The same juxtaposition between in-group and out-group is there. That juxtaposition between in-group and out-group is a key reason for the difference in public resentment you feel Chinese have with regards to the Japanese and Mao.

            I’ve been to Pearl Harbor and saw some of what the Japanese did to us and I’m not giving them a pass on their war crimes. I’m just not giving people like Mao or Stalin a pass either, just because they were making some patriotic speeches while murdering their own people.

            Good, and no one should give people a pass for the bad things they’ve done. Janus isn’t asking anyone to do so either. All he tried to do here was explain the difference you see. All I tried to do was explain what he was doing to someone who accused him of condoning child abuse.

            As a fellow American, you’re probably aware that our government has been increasing its surveillance programs on its own citizens, effectively spying on us, even keeping records of our electronic communications that they theoretically can use against us in the indeterminant future should they ever need to. I say you’re probably aware because this was hugely topical for the past few years and especially with Snowden. Now, if it was China doing it to us, wouldn’t we be much more pissed? Why? Because China is an outsider, part of the “out-group”.

            Likewise, the seeming difference in bitterness against Japan versus Mao is significantly (but still partially) because of this in-group out-group distinction. It’s one thing for my parents to criticize me, but it’s another for some outsider to do so. The Japanese are outsiders. Mao, for a variety of reasons, is still considered part of the in-group by mainland Chinese.

            I hope this has has helped.

      • Jahar

        It’s not okay for anyone to beat their kids.

    • 白色纯棉小裤裤

      No most experts outside of China estimate he is responsible for the deaths of 1.2 billion people

      • actionjksn

        I stand corrected.

    • kelli321

      My parents and Grandparents remember strongly about the effects of the cultral revolution and life under Mao’s rule. They have nothing nice to say about him. My grandmother still curses whenever she mentions him. It’s all about what the government want the younger generations to think to promote a harmonious society and what the older generation are too scaredto say out loud. But will maybe whisper or hint from time to time.

  • KamikaziPilot

    Some good comments among the Chinese. I was going to say my usual piece about rampant inferiority complex manifesting itself again but then I thought what would happen if someone wore a RIP Bin Laden T-Shirt in the US. Probably something similar. Unless he’s been living in a cave, I don’t see how this guy wouldn’t know that shirt would offend. So it’s either total ignorance or supreme arrogance on his part. While of course it wrong to physically assault someone for wearing a T-shirt, most people would have know not to wear the shirt unless they were looking for trouble.

  • stevelaudig

    A crowd is only as smart as it stupidest member. What he wears is no one’s business but his own. But the wearer can hardly be surprised by the reaction. Everyone can be [and it looks like they took the opportunity to be] stupid in this situation, but stupidly differently. Never go swimming in shark infested waters with an open, bleeding wound….. even if you have the ‘right’ to.

  • must touch brain

    Ah, backward Shandong again and their uber nationalism.

  • Blame the Chinese for being weak. They allowed themselves to be weak and they turned on each other in the war instead of uniting as one to defend against Japan. Not my problem, and I’m half Chinese. Prove me wrong if you don’t mind.

    But let’s think about something first. At least Japan somehow tried to free Asia from Western colonization, no? Or am I getting something wrong here?

    • Alex Dương

      But let’s think about something first. At least Japan somehow tried to free Asia from Western colonization, no? Or am I getting something wrong

      How about you elaborate on that and then we’ll decide whether you’re trolling or just deluded?

      • When I had a discussion with my dad, there was something to do with the West trying to colonize the East, and that included Russia, but it got pushed by Japan during the Russo-Japanese war. I believe it was the Kuril Islands. Then you have the Americans trying to bring democracy to the East, but Japan blocked it by trying to colonize countries like Taiwan first. Am I getting this right?

        • Janus

          My god, your sheer ignorance is astounding. I hope you go read some books and talk to some people other than your ‘dad’, for your own good.

          That, or you are trolling hard.

          • Hey, I’m just speaking from a different point of view. No harm done, right? Everyone keeps on saying Japan is wrong for everything but I don’t think they’re 100% wrong for everything despite brutal acts like Nanjing Massacre, Unit 731, and the torture of POWs. Just like I don’t think America is right for everything during WWII.

          • mr.wiener

            I’m sure a nazi apologist, or even a western colonial apologist could make a similar case.
            The sticking point is , despite their protestations of establishing a “greater East Asian Co-prosperity sphere”, The Imperial Japanese army brutalized its way across Asia committing all the atrocities on the local people as previously done by the European colonialists in new and sickening ways.
            There are never totally good guys or totally bad guys in a war, But the Japanese [imperialists] came pretty close to being “evil” in the sense of a sense of superiority totally undiluted by any later western notions of humanism or compassion [as selective and hypocritical as these values were applied by the colonial powers].
            Suggested reading: “The rising sun: The decline and fall of the Japanese empire.” by John Toland.

        • Common Sense

          You need to do some serious historical research and gain some serious understanding of these issues, besides having a conversation with your dad. Civilizations rise and decline all the time. That doesn’t justify a brutal invasion that killed as many as 30 million people.

          • Yea, but why aren’t people blame the west like America for bringing “democracy” and western colonization to the east? At least Japan was the first and only country to stand up against western colonization, no?

          • Zappa Frank

            aren’t? they do it every 5 minutes..
            japan stand up against western colonization? japan has been the first east country to become part of the west world.. we should rather say Japanese were the first to be assimilated in the western world

          • Are you saying before or after WWII? Pretty sure before WWII they weren’t exactly part of the western world.

          • Zappa Frank

            you mean that before the WWII did not japan imitate western armies, western cultures, western clothes, western factories, western schools.. and so on? To make it clear, Japan was the big boss in the east because became westernized before and more of other countries.

          • ClausRasmussen

            I’m not sure if you’re a troll or just ignorant but I’ll grant you the benefit of doubt…

            >> Japan was the first and only country to stand up against western colonization

            Japan was one of only a handful of countries that managed to avoid colonization (China, Thailand, Ethiopia, and maybe Turkey are the others), but then they went on to create a colonial empire of their own by first annexing Korea and then attacking China.

            Their colonization of China was opposed mainly by the US that slapped sanctions on them starving them for oil and raw materials. Japan eventually attacked Pearl Harbor to break the blockage

            You can say that they were no worse than the European powers by creating a colonial empire of their own, but in terms of loss of life, brutality, racism and atrocity they were far worse and compare only to nazi Germany

          • Kai

            I upvoted you but I know of at least a lot of Indians who would take issue with your last paragraph and have things to say about British imperialism in India.

          • ClausRasmussen

            >> British imperialism in India

            Really? I admit I am a little ignorant about the details of British imperialism… they defeated some uprisings (that were also directed at civilian British administrators and their families), there were a few massacres here and there but I’ve never heard of anything that came even close in scale or gravity to what the japanese did in their occupied territories

          • Kai

            Oops, I think I may have read your last paragraph in your previous comment incorrectly. I may have thought you were saying only Japan came close to Nazi Germany as far as colonial empires go, and instantly thought of a lot of Indians who feel quite strongly about their British Raj period “in terms of loss of life, brutality, racism and atrocity” in ways similar to how Europeans feel about the Nazis and Asians feel about the Japanese.

            That said, yeah, hang out on Quora and you’ll know what I mean. Here’s one thing I can remember off the top of my head that I first learned from Indian users on Quora:


            Mike Davis regards the famines of the 1870s and 1890s as ‘Late Victorian Holocausts’. This negative image of British rule is common in India.[37]Davis argues that “Millions died, not outside the ‘modern world system’, but in the very process of being forcibly incorporated into its economic and political structures. They died in the golden age of Liberal Capitalism; indeed, many were murdered … by the theological application of the sacred principles of Smith, Bentham and Mill.”

            I’m not referring to the explicit use of the word “holocaust” in that above excerpt off Wiki either. What I was explicitly referring to was the “in terms of loss of life, brutality, racism and atrocity”.

            Again, sorry for the original mixup on my part.

          • David

            I am sure they would and without comparing atrocities (after all dead is dead one life is nor worth more than another) the share size of the result of German and Japanese militarism is just hard to match (maybe only equaled by what the Soviet Union and China did to their own people later).

          • David

            Japan was the first Asian country to defeat a European power (they beat Russia in 1905). For this they were admired, for about 5 years until they tried to increase their holdings in China, conquered Korea, took over German colonies in China after WW I. and decided the rest of Asia was a bunch of pussies who needed the ‘Mighty Japanese’ to show them how to be ‘real men”. So they raped the women, killed the men (and children) and strip the countries of every conceivable natural resource for their war effort and profit. But that is just the highlights

        • Alex Dương

          Since this “elaboration” is as confused as the original comment, I’m going with trolling.

        • David

          no, you are mistaken. You are confusing the propaganda Japan used to try and justify its imperial ambitions with reality. I will give you the benefit and assume you actually do not know. If you would like like I could recommend a few good books on Asian history which will help educate you.

      • Wodowsan

        Actually that was the Imperial Japanese propaganda at the time, and for their invasions of their neighbors. “Asia for Asians.” With of course the Japanese as the new masters not those terrible western imperialists.

        • Alex Dương

          That’s why I asked whether he was trolling or just (horribly) deluded. It takes a lot of willful ignorance to actually accept at face value 1930s-1940s propaganda today. Kai convinced me that he was just really, really, really misinformed.

    • Misiooo

      Haha, if all people in Mainland share your view, I’d start worry about the future. Luckily not, and unlikely in the future. But I agree with you 100%. For a defeat one can only blame himself. Just like Poland or France in WW2.

    • David

      umm no. You are getting quite a lot wrong here. The Japanese government tried to take countries and colonize them for their own benefit, through the use of brutal and sadistic military force. That fact that some, but certainly not all, (i.e China, Korea and Thailand for example) of them had been or were currently colonized by western powers did not make it ‘better’ for the people being conquered and killed, it made it much worse (going from a peaceful colonization that had been in place for a hundred years to war is not better).

      The fact that the leaders of China were at war with each other made the conquest by Japan easier but it does not mean that Japan is not to blame for doing it (like looking at a rape victim and saying “did you see what she was wearing, she was practically asking for it”).

  • But how do we know if 6 million is a number over exaggerated by the West and the Chinese? For example, the Chinese claimed more than 300k were murdered in Nanjing, but the fact is less than 200k were murdered.

    • Alex Dương

      But how do we know if 6 million is a number over exaggerated by the West and the Chinese?

      The Nazis kept pretty good records.

      • That’s the Jewish, I’m talking about the Chinese. Mind helping me out here with your infinite knowledge on the subject?

        • Alex Dương

          You said “the West and the Chinese.”

          • Zappa Frank

            he means that for some unknown reason western countries are unite with Chinese in exaggerating the number of Chinese people killed by Japanese army…

          • Alex Dương

            Ironically, some of the earliest research documenting the extent of the Nanjing massacre came from Japan…

    • Common Sense

      Where did you get these “facts”? Your dad?

    • Janus

      and what’s your point? suddenly the Nanjing massacre is ok if its 200k death instead of 300k death?

      • No, the West and the Chinese all over the web say it’s 300,000, but some digging by the Japanese say it’s lower than 300,000, saying it’s an over-exaggeration by the Chinese to gain more sympathy. It’s wrong that the murder occurred, but it’s all about gaining territory one way or another. It’s better than to let western influence get all of Asia. If Japan just stayed put and never done anything, you wouldn’t mind American or the Brits completely taking over Asia? After all, I believe the Japanese are the overlords of Asia, unless you can prove me wrong. I know it’s dangerous topic I’m discussing, but I like to talk about taboo subjects regardless of whether I know enough or not. I just like to talk about it for the experience, so please don’t think of me as a crazy netto uyoku. You can correct me if I’m wrong.

        • Zappa Frank

          are you real or retarded?

          • Do you have anything better to say? Like I said, correct me if I’m wrong. What’s the hold up?

        • Joe

          “If Japan just stayed put and never done anything, you wouldn’t mind American or the Brits completely taking over Asia?”

          That sounds like the justification for the east asia co-prosperity sphere, the so-called noble aims to liberate Asia from Western imperialism was basically Japanese militarist propaganda. Japan wanted nothing more but to extract resources such as oil and ore from Asian nations. It still baffles me there are people today who still believe Japan waged a war not of aggression but liberation. It is precisely this kind of systemic denial that is isolating Japan politically from the rest of East Asia.

        • David

          you are 14 right?

        • Confucius

          Joji, you are either deliberately choosing to be misinformed or incredibly naive. The others on this thread have already tried to show you where you can find more credible information for yourself. Please either inform yourself or stop pretending to be a naive teenager.

          A lower number dying at Nanjing than reported by the Chinese is not a valid argument against the massacre having occurred, the evil that was perpetrated by the Japanese, or the appropriateness of the Chinese outrage over the Japanese government (and the silence of the general Japanese population) taking actions and saying words that throw doubt on the sincerity of their acceptance of guilt, apology and wish for atonement.

          Btw, in case you prefer not to do the research yourself: the numbers who died at Nanjing differ because there is no good way of knowing exactly how many died, but also because the estimates differ in the boundaries of Nanjing at the time (greater Nanjing covers a very significant area), the timeframe included in the massacre event (it didn’t happen over just one day), and what deaths are counted towards the ‘massacre’ (killing a Chinese soldier who is unarmed may not be included, while killing a woman may be; eg, the Israelis are claiming that Palestinians who died when the Hamas hiding within them were targeted are enemy combatants)

    • Brido227

      The Chinese figure takes in all deaths attributed to Japanese forces during their Nanjing campaign and starts from their push out of Shanghai. At the other end of the spectrum, the International Military Tribunal for the Far East only started counting once Nanjing had fallen to the Japanese.

      Pays your money, takes your choice.

    • KenjiAd

      You really shouldn’t be too concerned about the exact number of causalities of Nanking Massacre. That’s really an academic issue for historians.

      All you have to know is that a lot of innocent people, including the surrendered enemy soldiers, were murdered in and around Nanjing by the Japanese Army. That’s a war crime as defined by the Hague Convention.

      In fact, they were committing this sort of war crimes all over China, not just in Nanjing. Once heralded as the most disciplined military force during Meiji era, the Imperial Japanese Army had degenerated into largely a bunch of thugs during 2nd Sino-Japan War. Sad but true.

      • So you’re saying Japan signed the Hague Convention, but failed to comply by massacring in Nanjing? Is that what you’re saying? I’ll keep note of that.

        • KenjiAd

          Hague Convention (second one, in 1907) was among the early international conferences to stipulate the rules of war and war crimes. The 2nd Hague convention produced 13 international treaties ( ).

          The most important one is the forth treaty, Hague IV – “Laws and Customs of War on Land” ( ). Japan was one of the signatories as were all the major powers.

          When you go to the Yale website above, click on the Articles 4-20 of the Annex. These are the rules for Prisoners of War of the Annex. The Article 4 starts with this rule:

          “Prisoners of war are in the power of the hostile Government, but not of the individuals or corps who capture them.

          They must be humanely treated…”

          The Imperial Japanese Army (IJA) violated this and other POW rules throughout the WWII. In Nanjing, IJA killed a large number of the Chinese soldiers who already had surrendered.

          Also read the Articles 42-end of the Annex. These are the rules for occupied territories such as Nanjing. For example, the Articles 46-47 state as follows:

          “Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be
          respected. Private property cannot be confiscated.

          Pillage is formally forbidden.”

          The IJA violated these rules in Nanjing.

          The right-wingers of Japan are quick to point out that Japan was not the only belligerent states who violated the “rules of war.” That’s correct. The rules established by the Hague (and Geneva) Conventions in the early 20-th centuries were largely ignored (I believe Japan didn’t sign the Geneva Convention until after WWII). For example, in my opinion, the strategic bombing of German and Japanese cities by the Allied forces, including the A-bomb attacks, were violations.

          However, the scale of the violations by IJA, particularly its treatment of POWs and people in the occupied territories, was absolutely appalling.

          As a Japanese national, I do feel a great shame for that. Actually during the Russo-Japan War, IJA released as many as 80,000 Russian POWS without harm, even giving the salaries for the work performed by the POWs, which received international praise. But for some reasons no one really knows, the military discipline or whatever you call true “Samurai Spirit” vanished during WWII and they all became a ruthless thugs.

      • Brido227

        The Japanese forces were mostly composed of recalled reservists, men who’d served their compulsory service and then returned to civilian life to start careers and families. They weren’t anywhere near as disciplined as the forces that fought the Russians or won plaudits in the Boxer War, although those weren’t entirely innocent of atrocity against civilians either.

  • Teacher in China

    There’s a difference there, I’m afraid, since Jews are not likely to be hating on modern day Germany, whereas I can’t even count the amount of times I’ve heard people refer to “small Japan” and how they need to be wiped off the face of the earth; in Dongbei anyway, there is such a hatred for modern day Japan, and it is really funny to see them purchasing Japanese products at the same time.

    • Only the bashful are jealous of Japan’s success. Nothing to see there anyway. Kudos to the other Chinese who are more open minded.

    • ClausRasmussen

      Japan never went through the process Germany did after the war with de-nazification, trials of war criminals etc. In the eyes of most Europeans, Germany repented, distanced itself from its past, and is no longer held liable for the actions of the nazies

      The US went pretty lightly on Japan after the war and did not put them through the same process. This is partly because of US tradition and partly because they needed a strong Japan to stem the tide of communism, but it left some open wounds in not only China but also Korea and everywhere else the japanese soldiers sat foot

      • KenjiAd

        I think the most notable difference between post-war Germany and Japan is the of “collective guilt” campaign that was rigorously conducted in Germany but not at all in Japan.

        In post-war Germany, the US and UK in particular, conducted a publicity campaign to blame ALL the Germans, not just Nazis, on the WWII, especially the Holocaust. They produced a poster like this.

        (“These atrocities: Your fault!” photo-source: )

        And many German civilians were forced to look at the exhumed mass graves and concentration camps.

        (photo-source: ditto)

        And school children born after the WWII must go through the same process intended to instill the doctrine of German collective guilt, to such an extent that there are minority voices in Germany that this doctrine has gone too far ( ).

        In Japan, for whatever the reason, the Allied occupation force took a very different approach, the most symbolic of which was their decision to keep the Emperor as a symbolic head of the State.

        Note that, during the war, the vast majority of people in Japan seriously believed their country as a liberator. Of course the soldiers knew what they were doing in China and elsewhere. However, their psychological defense mechanism made them at least keep silent or even deny what they had done during the war.

        As the result, the majority of Japanese people were left ignorant of the atrocities
        committed by the Imperial Japanese Army, particularly in China.

        • ClausRasmussen

          I agree with what you said but I think that the big difference is not so much about the effect on the German/Japanese people (they are both equally peaceful today), but about the populations of the surrounding countries sense of closure.

          • Kai

            I think the minority of far-right white-washing to revisionist sentiments in Japan that is more populous and at least far more vocal than in Germany is a significant factor in the “sense of closure” in the surrounding countries. This is not to discount the government-sanctioned nationalism in both Korea and China, but the fact that such sentiments have not been as resolutely weeded out of modern Japanese society as they have been in modern German society gives Korean and Chinese nationalists ammo. @disqus_wsbWz6mWfM:disqus is right to the extent that Germans have done just about everything they could to not give modern society any excuse to continue resenting them, while the Japanese haven’t. The Germans are seen as proactively distancing themselves from Naziism, while too many Japanese still come across as having been forced to begrudgingly give up Imperial Japanese militarism. Whereas the Germans seem contrite, the Japanese merely seem resigned to having been defeated.

            To be clear, I think the mainstream population in Japan, Korea, and China get along just fine the vast majority of the time, evidencing the fact that their societies have largely moved on, but with regards to the nationalistic edges where there is friction that still resonates with mainstream audiences, I think these are perceptions that need to be dealt with for more progress.

          • But what is the percentage of the Japanese populace that are not okay with Chinese or Koreans? What is your estimate? And how many Japanese people do you estimate that can’t let go of Imperialism? And why does the Japanese populace still can’t let go imperialism even though Japanese Imperialism was extreme and brutal? Also, any books that you recommend that may answer my questions? So far, I got “The Rising Sun -The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire by John Toland” from Mr. Wiener.

          • Kai

            I don’t know what the percentage is. I’m not sure if there has been any reliable polling done for us to spout such figures, but I think it is safe to say the majority of mainstream society in all three countries get along with each other just fine in the vast majority of situations.

            Regarding the first three questions in general, I don’t think you’re asking the right questions, or at least the answers to the questions you are asking aren’t really important.

            I’m not sure it is accurate to say some parts of the Japanese populace “still can’t let go of imperialism”.

            If you’re sincerely interested in learning more about Japanese nationalism and Japanese sentiments regarding its imperialist days, you could start with these:



            There should be enough names and topics mentioned in them for you to then use Google to find more information on.

          • I’m well informed about the Uyoku parasites in Japan. I’m facing one everyday on another forum. I could simply ignore the Uyoku but I just can’t let it go because his sheer arrogance and ignorance just pisses me off. It’s like breaking every rule in war and breaking every code of the Geneva Convention. That’s what he’s doing and I don’t like it.

            Apart from that, I’ll look into your second link. Thanks for responding back.

          • KenjiAd

            That may be one reason, but the main problem, I think, still resides with Japan, both the government and Japanese people.

            For the majority of Japanese people, I think the historical narrative in which Japan was some sort of victim turned out to be more popular than the alternative. I believe that Japanese people have not yet figured out how to reconcile the two facts – a) their lives and land were absolutely devastated by the war and b) their soldiers committed a numerous number of atrocities all over the Asia and Pacific.

            I suspect the culture might be playing some role. To reconcile a) and b) above, you would necessarily throw the sentimentalism out of the window. I was born in Japan but spent most of my adult life in America.

            Whenever I see a “real” Japanese person, I often get an impression that sentimentalism plays a significant part in their logic. That’s not exactly a logic in the western sense, but their logic does seem to have a sentimental flavor (wait, did I just say “their” to refer to my own ethnicity? That’s when you know you’ve been abroad too long. :-))

  • WangDN

    Man wears a t-shirt some people don’t like and gets beaten in the street. A child is hit by a car and lies dying on the floor and people walk past indifferent. What a great nation China is becoming!

  • b duck

    this guy is a typical doubi!
    american tatoo, jap shirt, two glasses…hahaha! he just wants to make some fun.
    or maybe japan give chinese free shirt secretly?
    my sister’s husband is also a typical doubi. his favorite joke is sister feng, always says: the one whose mouth is like pop corn…hahahaha!

  • SongYii

    Printing Mao Zedong’s image on all paper denominations of Chinese money “is a failure of the most basic ability to discern right from wrong when it comes to the ruthless and brutal acts committed under militarism, no different from endorsing the Nazis. To challenge humanity’s consensus in the name of pursuing freedom and individuality/personality is stupid to the extreme!”

  • Dude

    God the Chinese are petty. Beating someone up for wearing a Japanese flag?? How childish. And despite claiming to hate Japan it certainly doesn’t stop waves of them coming over here every summer for their holidays.
    The government has then so brainwashed into believing that Japan is still their enemy, it’s nuts. There’s lots of Chinese people living here and thriving and they’re never the target of this kind of ridiculousness.

    • mr.wiener

      All Chinese?
      The relationship between China and Japan is a complicated one, Love/Hate and even more than that.

  • Feiniaozy

    I really cannot stand the utter stupidity behind such logic that Mao’s killing more Chinese makes their hatred towards Japanese war criminal less reasonable. Yes, many people died under Mao’s rule but it was an tragedy caused by battle of ideas and struggle of power. Apart from a single Fuhrer it was a also sin of time, when many of our own countrymen played the role as co-executioner towards fellow peers. We never forget this period. But how on earth is it even comparable to the Japanese war criminal whose sole purpose is to conquer our land and enslave even genocide this nation because they reckon us as inferior race? Who took pleasure in Chinese-killing contest and massive raping?

    • B*tches, Leave

      Oh and it also depends if you win or not. If you win, you are a national hero, whose face will be printed on banknotes. If you fail, people will call you a murderous tyrant. But at least Adolf was more thorough with his genocide plans than the Japanese …

      • Feiniaozy

        “But at least Adolf was more thorough with his genocide plans than the Japanese”.
        Just because less Chinese was killed by Japanese doesn’t make the Japanese criminals less evil than their German counterpart. It’s only because we had obviously bigger advantage than Jews.

    • SongYii

      ‘Yes, many people died under Mao’s rule but it was an tragedy caused by battle of ideas and struggle of power. ‘ I think we all cant understand the utter stupidity behind the logic that a difference in motive should make mass murder less reprehensible.

      Moreover, the reason outsiders dont take china’s vicious complaints about japan seriously is because its hypocritical, not because one is more guilty than another.

      • Janus

        So should we now not take the holocaust seriously because of Israeli atrocities against Palestinians as it would now apparently be hypocritical?

    • Jahar

      Mao is hoisted up on a pedestal, even though at best, we can say those deaths were cause by his incompetence and stupidity. The reasoning is “he was trying to make things better.” That’s the exact claim the japanese made. Also, Mao thanked Japan for it, right? You think during Mao’s reign there wasn’t raping and murdering? mao destroyed an entire culture.

      I honestly think that chinese people are more upset about it than they were 70 years ago. for 5000 years there have been wars and wars and raping and murdering, but no one cares about any, except for this war. Why?

      • netouyo

        Yes. Mao’s speeches too famous, thanked Japanese invasion

      • Feiniaozy

        “That’s the exact claim the japanese made.” What a jerk. I puked by reading your whole pile of hypocrite BS. Stop telling us what we should feel towards our own history.

        • Jahar

          Nice, rational counterpoints all around. Did the Japanese not claim they were doing it to make things better? How am I being a hypocrite, and do you disagree? Nowhere did I say what you should feel.

          • SongYii

            Hardly worth bothering… this guy is a doofus, and representative of the irrational, misdirected, anachronistic animosity toward Japan that triggered the event we are here discussing.

            The most pathetic part is that hatred of Japan doesn’t hurt Japan at all, and hurts China tremendously.

      • Kai

        “Trying to make things better” is closer to the truth for Mao and closer to “propaganda” for Imperial Japan. There’s a difference between trying to make things better for one’s own nation at the expense of one’s own nation and trying to make things better for one’s own nation at the expense of ANOTHER nation.

        The people who are objecting to the all too typical juxtaposition of Mao’s regime against Imperial Japan’s aggression feel this is such an obvious distinction that people are perhaps conveniently failing to recognize.

        There’s a camp of people who think anti-Japanese sentiment from Chinese people is hypocritical because Mao’s regime was arguably way worse in many other ways, including casualty figures.

        There’s another camp of people who think this accusation of hypocrisy is an insensitive attempt to deny Chinese people the right to be resentful of fairly recent history, one that a very vocal minority in Japan regularly agitates in stark contrast to Germany’s post-war modern behavior.

        The fact is, neither historical fact should be used to downplay the other. The problem is that there are people who are arguably but perhaps inadvertantly coming across as doing that very thing.

        Anti-Japanese sentiment by Chinese people should be criticized for when and what aspects it is unreasonable. The existence of Mao’s regime should not be invoked as a reason to criticize anti-Japanese sentiment. It is a separate matter worth its own criticism. Mao’s regime is something you invoke when a Chinese idiot says Mao was a saint who did no harm, not when a Chinese person expresses historical resentment over Japan’s atrocities against China.

        Let the Chinese people be resentful up until he starts saying dumb shit. Counter that dumb shit by pointing out how it is dumb, not by invoking Mao’s regime as something “worse” that they should have “more” anger or resentment for. All you’re doing is insulting the other person by suggesting they can’t hold two thoughts in their head at once, begging to have the common human phenomenon of in-group out-group reexplained to you, and coming across as prejudiced for Japan and against China.

        Have the courtesy to not assume that Chinese anti-Japanese sentiments means Chinese people don’t have gripes and resentments about their own government or past rulers. We don’t like it when Chinese idiots assume Westerners who are critical of China aren’t also crtiical of their own countries. Chinese idiots use that assumption against other Chinese netizens as well, as cS has consistently demonstrated in its translations since 2008.

        It’s a dumbass assumption that is easily interpreted as a deflection, whether it is used by Chinese idiots or non-Chinese idiots.

        Of all the sentiments behind the introduction of juxtaposing Mao’s regime to Japanese atrocities in this topic, pretty much the only defensible one could be much more intelligently expressed as, “I get that Chinese people have cause to be bitter about the Japanese, but I think there are more recent and more important issues they should spent time and energy on.”

        “Oh god, you Chinese people need to give it a rest, why don’t you complain more about your own Mao instead?” is not a tone that makes you look intelligent. It’s like Chinese people who tell foreign critics to complain more about their own countries.

        Finally, no, Chinese people are not more upset about WW2 than they were 70 years ago. That’d be a huge overestimation of anti-Japanese sentiment in modern China coupled to an equally huge underestimation of just how angry the Chinese were back then. I’m hoping that was just a hyperbole.

        The reason why people care about this war and not older historical wars is precisely because it is still wtihin living memory and precisely because the aggressor still exists. The ancient kingdoms that raped and murdered each other no longer exist, but when they did, there were plenty of people who hated people from those kingdoms for the raping and murdering committed in their living memory. Don’t forget how the vocal minority in that aggressor nation doesn’t help the “moving on” process (or how the Chinese government exploits anti-Japanese sentiment as well, as long asyou don’t think these are mutually exclusive).

        Also, just in case there is confusion, Mao didn’t thank Japan for “trying to make things better”, he thanked them for indirectly bringing the Communists into power. Two different things. Iif pressed, it was tongue in cheek. He felt things ultimately worked out–to his favor–but AFAIK, he never believed what the Japanese did to the Chinese was “right”.

        • Jahar

          I know, I don’t believe Mao thought what the Japanese did was right either, but to make a remark like that shows that he probably didn’t hate them that much.

          Also, the Japan/Mao comparison wasn’t brought up by me, it was brought up by someone who thought the logic behind it was utterly stupid and couldn’t understand it. I was just doing my best to make that logic a little clearer, in the hopes that he could see how people not trained to hate Japan could make that point. of course, that failed. Although I didn’t really expect him to look at it in any other way than he already does, but I thought it might be worth the effort.

  • Guest

    He’s doing it wrong…

  • Guest

    He’s doing it wrong…
    (Not sure if the image insert is working… )

  • Ryo Saeba

    Close enough… (sorry for the triple post guys… apparently, the “Delete” option doesn’t work as it should.)

    • Kai

      Disqus’s image attach feature sometimes doesn’t work immediately. Try refreshing the page and checking your comment a few times to see if the image appears.

      Generally, if it attaches in your comment box as you’re making the comment, it should work, even if it might not immediately appear on your comment AFTER you post it. For example, all three of your comments in this case had your image attached to them. I’ve deleted the first two.

      Also, Disqus’s “delete” functionality just anonymizes your comment (makes it appear as being posted by a “Guest”). They have a FAQ or Help page that explains why (it confuses a lot of people). Only moderators can actually delete a comment from the section.

      • ClausRasmussen

        When I happen to say something unbearable stupid I edit the comment, replacing the text with a single dot (.) Clicking “Delete” not only anonymizes it but also protects it against further changes. It feels like a trap because people can often figure out I wrote it

        • Kai

          I remember seeing a few of those. I’m not sure if you’re the only person who does that though.

          If someone ever gives me crap for something stupid I’ve said in the past, and it was indeed stupid, I’ll just have my current self hang my head in shame and apologize for my past self.

  • Jahar

    i don’t support his decision, but I support his right to wear it.

  • Lothrop Stoddard

    Ho Chi Minh would be turning in his grave if he could see this.

    RIP Ho Chi Minh 1532 – 1590. Greatest Chinese Emperor.

  • Repatriated

    I wish I had $1 for every USA flag I saw on clothing during my 8 years in China…

  • don mario

    try to have some compassion here folks. this is the actions of severely oppressed and beaten down poor people. they have all their freedom squashed by their government and they can do NOTHING about it. absolutely nothing. the frustration builds.

    so when they get a chance to take some action and push someone else around and channel their anger towards somebody else believe me, they will take it.

    its very sad, and we gotta keep an eye on it and do all we can to stop this nationalist racist nonsense in any way we can. this is the kind of thing that can brainwash people towards war. as has been proved in the past.

  • don mario

    i’ve seen plenty of people wearing mainland flag t shirts in taiwan. they don’t give a fuck.

  • SongYii

    They don’t know or care about the meaning of anything written on their clothing.

    • Alex Dương
      • SongYii

        no, thats not equivalent, that way stupider.

        • David

          Ummm COME on my FACE is pretty stupid.

          • SongYii

            Not as stupid on a t-shirt as inked into sub-dermal layers of your body, is what I meant! :-D

          • Alex Dương

            Point taken.

  • ClausRasmussen

    A better comparison would be someone wearing a nazi shirt in Israel

  • I do respect Chinese people’s feelings on this matter. And I respect Shandong people even more (哈啤酒,哈啤酒 ^_^). However, I’ve seen lots of Chinese driving their cars with huge swastika stickers pasted on their rear windshields, some of them even have swastika tattoos. Keep people stupid, that’s the norm in this world right now.

    • kelli321

      The swastika can also be affiliated with buddisim in east asian. You’ll also see plenty decorated in temples and buddist related jewellery. Its not that shocking in China. Not unless you have a 45º angled one in a white circle with a red back ground. Wearing the rising sun t-shirt in China is about as sensitive as wearing anything vaugely resembling a swastika in Israel or Germany (where it is illegal, but hey at least the Jews got a genuine apology and closure…no closure makes Chinese bitter people…who get a lot more angry a lot faster.)

  • Alan Dale Brown

    Beating up someone for a t-shirt is not cool, but this guy was really insensitive. Maybe it’s similar to wearing a confederate flag in a black neighborhood in the US. I see this as qualitatively very different from generic protests against anything Japanese or for occupying the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands. Those protests are baldly nationalistic, and easily manipulated by those with ulterior motives. Although this got out of control, the crowd has good reason to be offended. It’s OK when China stands up against apologists for Imperial Japan; it’s not OK for China to encourage prejudice against anything Japanese.

  • OfficerDarrenWilson

    What sad country China is.

    100 years behind the times, A bunch of peasants with technology. If China keeps making enemies like this it will not have a single friend.

  • Dr Sun

    A imperial Japanese t shirt and a statue of liberty tatt a contradiction in terms don’t you think.
    Then again uneducated youths will be youths, chavs or trailer park, like , well you know PIC ?

    • David

      That was pretty weird in the picture. Where have you been Dr. Sun, have not seen you for a bit?

      • Guang Xiang

        Probably purging all the virus found on his computer hahaha

  • Kai

    No, it is a fact that Mao was ultimately responsible for the deaths of a lot of Chinese people. This is a fact that the Chinese government recognizes (remember “70/30”?).

    The point is: what Mao is responsible for should not affect what Japan was responsible for, and vice versa.

    • eiji

      kai, you are wrong
      mao was not responsible for death of chinese people
      (great leap forward, cultural revolution)

      it is policy failure akin to bad investment decision.

      those idea are great but applied wrongly and at wrong timing and carried out by wrong person.

      china stance on mao – 70/30
      they did not say that mao was responsible for those death
      mao do make some mistake in his decision.

      mao is not khmer rouge.,stalin,hitler
      where they give order/ made decision to kills those people.

      mao did not make such decision
      their death was partially /indirectly resulted from failure of their policy

      many people commit suicide because they took advice from expert on market.

      you dont blame the expert.

      • Kai

        He’s “responsible” in that it was his policies and decisions that directly contributed to or caused the deaths of so many people whose well-being he was responsible for.

        It is like a manager being ultimately responsible for the malfeasance of his/her employees and subbordinates.

        A lot of his ideas were terrible, not great. Making lousy steel? Persecuting the educated classes? As a leader, he is responsible for the actions of the people who followed him. Leaders have to take responsibility.

        70/30 was the Chinese government’s way of acknowledging his mistakes which included the unnecesary deaths of many people.

        If you don’t think Mao personally ordered a lot of people to be persecuted, imprisoned, or executed, you need to review history. Please don’t misunderstand this as me saying he ordered people to die from starvation during the Great Famine. I’m not saying that. I’m saying he is ultimately responsible as a leader for BOTH the deaths his policies caused AND the deaths he personally ordered. You know he struggled over power, right? You know he persecuted his political enemies, right?

        When you have a choice about taking the advice of an “expert” on the stock market, choose to take that advice, and then lose money, you ultimately blame yourself for deciding to follow that “expert”.

        When you have no choice but to obey the policies of your government leader and that results in you starving to death, you blame the leader.

  • Kai

    People, not just Westerners, worship “democracy” as a form of government that gives power to the people and allows people to govern themselves collectively. People do not worship democracy as a “value” that has “brought tremendous calamity to the rest of the world”

    Democracy merely enables the majority of a country to get its way. If that way involves surrendering themselves to fascism or propagating imperialism that just means something was wrong with the majority, not “democracy” itself. Democracy does not inherently prevent calamities.

    I’m sure you think what you said had relevance to the conversation between @disqus_C99dyOS3fU:disqus and @actionjksn:disqus but can you elaborate and clarify what it is for me?

  • Davidmed77

    So from my understanding, if it is Pro Empirical China (a proud and honorable society)and Chinese breaking the rules it is ok, but if it an competition to our beloved PRC (a society of crooks and thieves) then it must be quashed. Let us rise up and defend the villains but destroy anyone that has their own thoughts. For the record I disagree with the shirt but agree with his right to wear it.

  • The same can be said about China or Korea. Modern China and Korea want more compensation from Japan, even though they were mostly sort out in the past. For example, S. Koreans still insist for some kind of compensation for the Comfort Women situation even though it’s been mostly settled in past meetings already. In fact, Japan did try to set up a program to compensate Korean comfort women but the government refused to cooperate. More info can be found in this article I based upon:

    So I believe China and Korea are a bit too greedy, but not over ambitious. But I do have to agree with you that the Japanese did think of other races as lower class.

    They can kill without any mercy because they were trained to have a samurai like mindset, I think.

  • narsfweasels

    1: Does a woman in a miniskirt deserve to get raped? No.

    2: Does a woman dressed like a prostitute deserve to have her clothes ripped off to shame her? No.

    3: Does this idiot deserve to have his personal property damaged and removed because he’s insensitive? No.

    • Pieter

      You should try wearing a Nazi shirt in Israel.

      • narsfweasels

        And it would then be acceptable in China to tear the shirt off this man’s back?

        You can mock, deride and insult the man as you will – and he is an idiot – but there is nothing that gives you the right to touch his person or his property.

  • Misiooo

    I wear such t-shirts from time to time, Shanghai, HK, wherever I am in this big land of chinaman. Drive jap car pushing those idiots who don’t know how to operate western tech on sides every day. Those few who tried to challenge me, ended up badly, mostly laughed out loud. Tell you a secret – as long as you don’t treat them as a real threat, a nuisance rather, a sort of a fly, not a real human being, you always win. Chinaman got what chinaman deserves.天皇陛下万歳!!! Buhahahaha!

  • David

    now your just trolling. Most of what you wrote is not even true. But have fun.

    • guest

      Hes trolling one of the biggest trolls around on the internet, gets around on Yahoo answers, yahoo articles.

  • David

    Maybe not, but if they don’t they will get arrested, the police won’t escort the guy away.

  • SongYii

    No, but could probably not attract much attention displaying a 70 year old conflict on a shirt.

  • wnsk

    “Too much anger hurts the liver”? Gotta love this guy. An idiot, but a loveable idiot.

  • ClausRasmussen

    >> After Mao’s death his wife and several of his ‘comrades’ were executed for the crimes that took place

    None of the Gang of Four was executed. One died in prison, one committed suicide shortly before her release on medical grounds (Maos wife Jiang Qing), and two were eventually released after 20 years in prison

  • namepen

    The Japanese didn’t murder 30 million people just as the Germans didn’t murder 20 million Russians.

    There was a war and the casulties from that war were 30 million and 20 million respectively.

    It is simply not true to say that the Japanese directly killed every single one of those 30 million people.

    It is not to say that the Japanese didn’t do evil, my Great Grandad testified that the Japanese were cruel and barbaric when fighting in Burma.

    The point is that your depiction is inaccurate and typical of those with a rather unsavoury hatred towards the modern day Japanese .

  • namepen

    Cultural sensitivity doesn’t give you the freedom to hijack the suffering of others.

    The Holocaust is a singular event in history and the attempts to minimize it’s uniqueness is ahistorical and offensive.

    • Alex Dương

      How has the suffering of others been hijacked?

    • Kai

      While I’d like to think I recognize the point you’re trying to make with your second paragraph and its limits, I’m going to go out on a limb here and argue that what the Holocaust ultimately boils down to is not actually that unique and as state-sanctioned genocide, not a “singular” incident in history.

      The Holocaust is perhaps the most notorious example, maybe even of the largest scale and the most methodical. Those things should all be recognized and the Holocaust should be given proper infamy for those things, but my point is: it was ultimately a manifestation of prejudice and scapegoating (and one that was pretty common throughout Europe at the time). One of the most important lessons about the Holocaust was that everyday normal people had gone along with it, rationalized it, even welcomed it, as long as it played to their own biases. It was an example of how easily humans can dehumanize others, and that dehumanization is not singular or unique in history.

      Hopefully you understand and even agree with what I’m saying, just as I understand that you don’t think the Holocaust should be casually cheapened or trivialized. However, there’s a difference between likening the resentment and bitterness of Chinese people towards the Japanese to that of the Jews towards the Nazis and likening not being picked for dodgeball to the Holocaust. Boob isn’t attempting to hijack the suffering of others or minimize the Holocaust’s uniqueness.

    • Confucius

      ‘The Holocaust’ hijacked all the holocausts that happened before it. People using the word ‘holocaust’ are not minimising its uniqueness, they are simply using the term to mean what it means. Jewish scholars have their own term for their suffering in WW2. If you are so concerned about this you should at least educate yourself about it. You are minimising the uniqueness of the Chinese suffering by the Japanese invasion by making an illogical, false and clearly biased comment about it.

  • x1sfg

    Grow up, China

  • Wass ?

    Oh, I see Chinese people still hate Japan. Ironic that they consider loving the party a patriotic act then, considering it is responsible for probably double the amount of unnatural deaths of Chinese people the last decade. Reading this just shows straight through how politically indoctrinated Chinese people are and how narrow-minded nationalism is used in for instance education, for the benefit of the leaders. Why would they read the political doctrines of a person who is responsible for extreme suffering, all the way from they are children until they graduate at university?

    Great leap forward, nah, just a socialistic experiment with the best intentions for the people “that went wrong”. Cultural revolution, well at least the Chinese has the balls to call it a disaster, but they still have the picture of the man responsible for it on many households and even on tiannanmen square. But god damn those horrible tiny Japs… They love the party, who is probably even worse than the Japanese. But the Chinese people just can’t seem to understand they have been taken hostage of a bunch of hooligans who still at this day, are as bad as Japan was during world war 2. Chinese people truly must be the biggest case of collective stockholm syndrom in the modern world.

  • Karze

    Chinese tourist in Tibet do all kind of nasty things. A Chinese woman is humping on giant Buddha statue and another group of tourist were trampling on the Tibetan prayer flags.

    Then there is “cultural revolution” theme hotel run by Chinese in Lhasa.