“Happy 65th Birthday, People’s Republic of China!”

A Chinese soldier unfurls the red, five-starred national flag of the People's Republic of China at the raising ceremony in Beijing on 2014 October 1, celebrating the country's 65th anniversary since its founding.

A soldier salutes at the morning flag-raising ceremony in Beijing on 2014 October 1, the 65th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China.

From Sina Weibo:

@央视新闻 [CCTV]: Happy Birthday, Dearest China! — The gorgeous red five-starred flag, rising together with the sun. Sharing in the glory and dreams, shouldering the responsibility and undertakings. Every person’s footsteps, together stepping onto the road ahead. Every little bit of effort, allows China to be even more beautiful! At this moment, China, you and me, we welcome the dawn, and run towards our dreams!

Comments from Sina Weibo:

金刚葫芦娃460:

When the country is strong, I am strong. What’s good for the country, is good for me.

小星的心:

I watched the live broadcast on television and the cheering of the crowd was very loud, but all the mobile phones I saw taking pictures were [iPhone] 5S, all the cameras Canon. So conflicted.

生命力-同济-香港:

We are all the good children of our homeland! The homeland will ultimately choose those who are loyal to it. I am in Hong Kong, and together with the homeland, cheers!

金色的冰淩:

The red five-starred flag, I am proud of you. May our great homeland flourish and thrive, and the people’s lives be happy and healthy!

CCTV雅君:

The hardships of reporters are those that ordinary viewers do not see. The minutes-long short live broadcast report of the flag-raising ceremony is the product of a lot of preparation, innumerable communications, multiple revisions, and midnight preparations. This morning’s Beijing is already relatively cold, and our colleagues used this most plain and simple way to celebrate the founding of our homeland! I salute my colleagues, and salute my homeland!

刘忻官方后援会:

#Happy 65th Birthday to Our Homeland# Glory and prosperity to our great homeland! Happiness and health to the people! [国庆65周年][国庆65周年][国庆65周年][国庆65周年][国庆65周年][国庆65周年][国庆65周年]

太空伟:

China, I wish you well!

舍得猫猫:

May our homeland have a happy 65th birthday! Peace and prosperity for my homeland! To be a rich country and a strong people!

媒体人马志豪:

Happy 65th birthday! China, jia you!

Rix_Chan:

#Happy 65th Anniversary of the Founding of the PRC# Forgive me for pouring cold water on you, but I sincerely wish the PRC would not bring disgrace to [the word] “republic”. Expand reforms, speed up urban-rural integration, shrink the wealth gap, strictly control financial risks, ensure education quality, increase job opportunities, stamp out political corruption, maintain social order, increase national defense, implement policies beneficial to the people, adjust the taxation system, loosen export trade.

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Written by Fauna

Fauna is a mysterious young Shanghainese girl who lives in the only place a Shanghainese person would ever want to live: Shanghai. In mid-2008, she started chinaSMACK to combine her hobby of browsing Chinese internet forums with her goal of improving her English. Through her tireless translation of popular Chinese internet news and phenomenon, her English has apparently gotten dramatically better. At least, reading and writing-wise. Unfortunately, she's still not confident enough to have written this bio, about herself, by herself.

  • Joe

    I thought the motherland is 5000 years old

    • SongYii

      Don’t rock the boat.

    • Terrik

      I love this comment in conjunction with your avatar.

    • Insomnicide

      The Chinese nation is almost 5000 years old. The Chinese state is 103 years old. The current government of China is 65 years old.

      • Joe

        Now now we all know that 5000 years is a modern construct, at least 1000 of those years are based on myths and legends. China has long tried place itself alongside of older civilizations such as the Sumerians and the Egyptians (3000BC). In reality actual archeological evidence dates the Chinese civilization to roughly the same as the Greeks or proto-Greeks. Not to mention some Chinese historians contend that the Xia Dynasty (~2000BC) was itself a fabrication by the Zhou Dynasty, since the Xia Dynasty was never mentioned by the Shang Dynasty.

        • Confucius

          What exactly are you arguing, Joe? That the Chinese didn’t have historical records stretching back 5000 years? Or that the PRC isn’t 5000 years old? Or that there are no archaeological evidence of people living in the geographical area of modern China 5000 years ago? Or that current Middle East states should be identified as continuations of the Sumerians and ancient Egyptians? Or that if you make up strawman arguments that do not make sense by picking and choosing what you believe in to support your own biases, everyone else will somehow magically all hate the Chinese as much as you clearly do?

          • Kai

            I’m gonna defend Joe here because I know him. He’s probably the oldest contributor to cS. You aren’t expected to know that, but now you do.

            I’m also gonna defend him because I know exactly what he intended to do here: poke fun at the 5000 year claim that is often bandied around.

            For many people (like you), people snorting at the 5000 year claim is tiresome, yes, but it’s also probably as tiresome as it is for others to hear the 5000 year claim if we want to be fair.

            Feel free to argue the mean-spiritedness of chortling about the 5000 year claim, but for what it’s worth, Joe has his criticisms of modern China but he doesn’t want people to hate the Chinese.

          • Confucius

            I see. I apologise (to Joe) that I thought he was just another one of those commentators who seem to have difficulty limiting their hatred of the Chinese to credible arguments.

            Taking up this interesting side thread on the 5000-year claim, I think it is very possible that the Chinese civilisation (as an identifiably coherent socioculturolinguistic entity) dates back 5000 (or much more, based on the settlements found on archaeological digs around the place) years. Certainly, the imperial Chinese history only dates back as far as written historical records allow, which is at least 3000 years. The tenuous link between mythology and history is the problem here. Much of the history before imperial records are available depends on our trust in the accuracy and competence of historians from 2000 years ago. Then again, we face the same issues with Roman and Greek historians, and no one would argue that Egyptian pharaohs didn’t embellish their stories/feats or try to rewrite history – they are very clearly aware of how to leave things for posterity to admire them for.

          • Joe

            If you actually read what I wrote, I am arguing Chinese nationalism is modern construct. The entire notion of 上下五千年 is based partially on legends that cannot be verified by archeological evidence. During the course of nation-building countries often embellish its history based on myth. In Chinese history books they always considered themselves to be one of the four ancient civilizations (Egypt, Mesopotamia, Indus Valley, and China), a classification that no Western historians use. Why? because, China as a established civilization is not as old as the Egyptians or the Mesopotamians. Same goes for the Korean nationalist who continue to claim Korea also have a 5000 year old history basing on the Dagun Myth, when there are no archeological evidence verifying any of that.

        • Insomnicide

          While true, the existence of the Xia dynasty is quite controversial. There has been archaeological evidence of civilization existing before the Shang dynasty.So the finer details of the Xia dynasty is debatable, but the existence of a Chinese civilization before the Shang dynasty has been proven by recent archaeological discoveries.

          The 5000 years isn’t actually a modern construct. Chinese people have been saying throughout history their nation’s origins begin with the Xia. As evident in the Han dynasty annals Records of the Grand Historian, the author Sima Qian traces the founding of the Chinese civilization to the Five Emperors. While the historiography is questionable, it is evident that Chinese people have always believed the founding of their nation begins with Xia. The ancient name for the Chinese civilization was Huaxia, which derives from the Huaxia tribe, the ancestors of the Han Chinese ethnicity.

          • Zappa Frank

            can you explain me than how is possible to talk about china history something like 3000 years before the creation of china and sure before even the idea of china? 5000 years of Chinese nations? are we sure about that or we presume too much? besides, many many other places have records and evidences of civilization that are even ancient by far than the Chinese one, but still I don’t understand the standard Chinese use with their history, seems to me different from others…
            As far as you write there is:
            -some archeological evidences of an antique civilization of 5000 years ago..
            -some historiography like sima qian of 3000 years later that claim their history begin many years before with Xia (by the way, the same author talk about the beginning with the yellow emperor that now seems to be confirmed as a legend)
            the very same things happened almost everywhere in the world.. but I would like to know why in other countries there is a critic view of this sources (we don’t think romans were the sons of Troy just because Viriglio wrote so and other believed it..) while in china seems to be accepted without discussions…
            Seems to me that Chinese are not more related to the civilization of 5000 years ago than Lebanese with people of jerico of 8000 years ago..

  • SongYii

    This morning’s Beijing is already relatively cold

    Still running the AC 24/7 in south China.

    • David

      I run it for a few hours a day in my bedroom to combat the heat and humidity in Wuxi (middle east coast China).

      • SongYii

        im just north of hk… like a ball sack 9 months of the year.

  • Don’t Believe the Hype

    “The hardships of reporters are those that ordinary viewers do not see. The minutes-long short live broadcast report of the flag-raising ceremony is the product of a lot of preparation, innumerable communications, multiple revisions, and midnight preparations. This morning’s Beijing is already relatively cold, and our colleagues used this most plain and simple way to celebrate the founding of our homeland! I salute my colleagues, and salute my homeland!”

    I was really hoping this was sarcasm : ‘ (

    Also, i have to say it must be nice living in a bubble. I asked a Chinese friend once why, knowing he lived in a bubble, he still chose to ignore it (and yes, i kno i’m going to get pounded by the china defenders who point out the right wing looneys in the US like we’re all the same). He basically said it is easier that way.

    Ignorance and blind patriotism, i suppose, is bliss.

    • Alex Dương

      Left wing looneys just as bad :P

    • SongYii

      why did you hope it was sarcasm? broadcast journalism is hard, time consuming work!

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        What were they investigating? How many soldiers it would take to raise the flag? These people give journalism a bad name.

        • SongYii

          nah… these are professionals. NOTHING can go even slightly wrong. its tough work. but to me, not really that important… the message we are refering to seems to be by a CCTV employee. so i guess its important to him.

        • Kai

          They weren’t investigating anything. He’s just a CCTV employee giving a shout-out to other CCTV employees. He’s just saying such a seemingly simple segment as covering a flag-raising ceremony can be a logistical nightmare for the CCTV staff assigned to it. It shouldn’t be hard to imagine why. It’s a very symbolic ceremony on a very important day and the government is gonna want its media arm CCTV to get it just right. Pagentry isn’t new in these sort of things, in China or elsewhere.

    • Confucius

      “I asked a Chinese friend once why, knowing he lived in a bubble, he still chose to ignore it ….”

      “I asked a Chinese friend once why, when I ask stupid questions, he still choose to brush me off with platitudes and saying it is easier that way” ….

      Hint: if you genuinely want to know something, rather than asking a question so you can push your own beliefs and ideology, start by assuming the other guy is at least as smart and thoughtful as you are, and try to understand why they believe what they believe. Then again, your comments in this forum don’t suggest you have ever genuinely wanted to know about Chinese culture or thought

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        “I asked a Chinese friend once why, knowing he lived in a bubble, he chose to ignore it…”
        Actually the question was prompted when he said, “i feel like a live in a bubble.” Don’t shoot the messenger bro, if you think groupthink doeesnt exist there you are crazy. It exists there just as it does in many other places in the world, the difference being choice. In China you don’ thave any

    • Pandaz129 .

      > Blind patriotism, i suppose, is bliss.

      Or perhaps he just doesn’t want to get in a argument with you as he knows no matter what he says you will dismiss it as “blind patriotism” anyways.

      Seriously the fact that you don’t realize that makes me feel really sorry for your friend, and judging from what I read from other replies you seem to have little to no idea to what you are talking about anyways.

      Ignorance, I suppose, is bliss.

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        I’ve yet to meet a person in the mainland (except profoundly sheltered older people) who actually believes half the stuff coming from reporters on CCTV contains one ounce of actual, individual reporting work. I’ve also rarely had to ask Chinese friends anything at all, they usually volunteer that information. And having lived in several different small to large size cities, i find it hard to believe it is a coincidence that mainlanders in all these places have the same feelings toward mainstream news.

        Was there an argument somewhere within that random spouting of vitriol?

        • Pandaz129 .

          And I’ve yet to meet a mainland Chinese who believes that he/she lives in a inevitable bubble that despite government interventions (eg.requiring families purchasing a second home to make at least a 40% down-payment.) will eventually pop. And no thats not from CCTV, thats from Wikipedia.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_property_bubble_%282005%E2%80%9311%29#Deflation_of_the_bubble_and_effects_on_growth

          > And having lived in several different small to large size cities

          Yeah and so have I, but that doesn’t make me an “expert” on China does it?

          > i find it hard to believe it is a coincidence that mainlanders in all
          these places have the same feelings toward mainstream news.

          This has nothing to do with our current discussion about China’s housing bubble, and your accusation of your friend’s “blind patriotism” at all, you should really re-read what I just wrote as I think you are getting the wrong ideas here m8.

          > Was there an argument somewhere within that random spouting of vitriol?

          In case you are wondering my argument is that just because he enjoys living in his native country, it doesn’t mean that he is “blinded” by “patriotism”, instead it just exhibits your ignorance on Chinese people and pretty much Chinese society.

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            Wait when did this become about the housing bubble? I’m just talking about the reporters comments and netizen’s reactions.

          • Pandaz129 .

            Ah okay, but I think you should really clarify that next time as most of the time when you mention the word “bubble”, people will understand it as the “housing bubble” of China rather than a “propaganda bubble” you are trying to convey. Well I guess that clears that up, have a nice day!

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            different kind of bubble

  • DOMINOS

    HK CHINESE ARE SO DUMB!! CHINESE IS CHINESE!!! HK CHINESE WHAT TO BE PART OF US OR UK BUT THEY NEED TO FOLLOW THE LAW IN CHINA HK CHINESE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THEY R UNDER CHINA

    • mr.wiener

      That is the problem in its entirety… “under China”.

      • DOMINOS

        WHAT PROBLEM YOU GO BACK TO THE USA AND BREAK THE LAW THERE , YOUR POLICE WILL BEAT OR KILL U RIGHT PIG, PIG GO HOME!!

        • mr.wiener

          I’m Australian.
          Nice to see you happy and safe in York UK.
          Caps lock makes your argument so much more convincing ,no?

          • JayJay

            How can you tell if he’s in York? Just interested to know. His English needs some improvement for sure.

          • mr.wiener

            Click on his disqus account. He designs webs… go figure.

          • JayJay

            Yeah, saw it… I am hearing Cartman’s voice in my head when I read his comments… hahaha… so much anger…

          • mr.wiener

            “RESPECT MA STUPIDITY”.

          • JayJay

            He keeps telling people to ‘go home’… maybe he should get out of the UK, which is my country… pig…

          • Alex Dương

            I’m curious. Does it feel especially “wut / wtf” for someone residing in the U.K. to call you an American?

          • mr.wiener

            I’m residing in China lite bro.(Taiwan) . Have been here 1/3 of my life.
            I think it’s as funny as that some people think I’m a yank..not insulting exactly, just funny.

          • firebert5

            I like the caps lock. Adds flavor to an already juicy post!

        • LuoyangLaowai

          Come on now. Be fair, That only happens if you Run.

  • Fdom

    65 years of murdering their own people. Hopefully it won’t make it to 66 before they kill too many more.

    • mr.wiener

      Please do not forget modern China has lifted millions out of abject poverty… to lift them to freedom, now that would be a birthday present worth getting.(and giving)

      • wes707

        “Please do not forget modern China has lifted millions out of abject poverty…”

        The economic policies of the CPC lead to the death and destruction of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. It was only after the failings of communist policy that they had to reconcile with the West in order to develop their economy. Western multinationals and markets are what pulled millions of Chinese out of poverty. We created the consumption/demand and paid their wages to manufacture our products; as well as transfer the technological know-how they have today. The West underwrote China’s development from its impoverished state.

        The CPC is little more than the middleman selling slave labor to the global market.

        • Alex Dương

          Oh my God, mr.wiener is obviously referring to what happened in China after 1978, not between 1958 and 1976.

          • SongYii

            Oh my god, he obviously knows that and thinks mr. wiener is improperly crediting the CPC, which he largely is.

          • Alex Dương
          • mr.wiener

            I often wonder what an alternative history would have been like if the KMT had stayed in charge of China… certainly nothing as dramatic. Chiang Kai Shek was more of a pisher than Mao, but that is probably a good thing when it comes to killing people and grandious (and disasterous) policies… Hopeful for every Mao you get a Deng Xiao Ping , or in Taiwan’s case Chiang Jing Guo, both of whom I have mixed feelings about…
            In sum I feel that a KMT China would not have plumbed the depths or soared to the heights of China in the last 60 years.
            Thoughts?

          • SongYii

            my thoughts are that the kmt did stay in charge of china… but china shrunk to the size of taiwan, and now there are communist occupiers continuing to hold the rest of the ROC hostage.

            and thats the way its going to be from now on.

          • mr.wiener

            A lot easier to manage a small island with a handy size population and the remains of a Japanese infrastructure you hadn’t finished looting, particularly if the military boobs of America are still lactating you with lots of money and weapons [they didn’t call him General “Cash My Check” for nothing].

            Please don’t think for a second that I’m defending the insane policies of Mickey Mao and his CCP’s Maoskerteers club.

          • SongYii

            i dont, and i also dont pretend to believe that had the kmt retained control of the mainland that the mainland would be so successful as taiwan. we can only assume it would have. but assuming doesnt change history or make it true. it just takes the edge off when witnessing the ccp’s abject abuse of a quarter of the worlds population.

            and mickey mao and the maosketeers is hilarious, never heard that.

          • mr.wiener

            I bet you can’t get that bloody theme music out of your head now…

          • SongYii

            Actually, was just fantasizing about banging Chinese Annette Funnicello.

          • David

            I like that ‘Maoskerteers club’. lol

          • Alex Dương

            I agree that a KMT China would not have sunk as low as CCP China did between 1949 and 1978. But I think that a KMT China would have soared at least as high as (actual) China has today; it just would have done it more slowly / been spread out over more years. The KMT was pretty damn corrupt during its time on the mainland, but CKS and the KMT weren’t anti-foreign.

            I also think a KMT China would’ve meant a unified Korea under the ROK. So no Kim dynasty in North Korea. Regarding Vietnam, it’s not as clear. Maybe Ho Chi Minh would’ve jumped ship and altered Viet Minh ideology away from Communism. I doubt CKS would have ever supported continued French rule in Vietnam; if HCM really stuck with Communism, my guess is CKS would’ve just stayed out of it.

          • Jahar

            Ussr would have fallen faster with no prc. Japan, Taiwan and Korea wouldn’t have gotten the support from the us, so they wouldn’t be so great. No Vietnam war would probably mean Thailand wouldn’t be a sex shop.

          • don mario

            a kmt china would of developed 30 years earlier IMO. the cultural heritage and not entirely sold out peoples morals to the god of money. would not of been fucked up and they would of got democracy at some point. would it still be a great and flawless country? probably not, but those things alone would make it a better place than what we have currently.

          • Alex Dương

            would it still be a great and flawless country? probably not, but those
            things alone would make it a better place than what we have currently.

            I agree. Shame it didn’t happen, especially since I think it’s quite plausible that a KMT China would have meant less suffering in neighboring Korea and Vietnam too. Oh well, we can only move forward.

          • lacompacida

            Yep. First you destroy the economy so that hundreds of millions loose their livelihood, and then you relax the chain a bit so that they can live a little better, and claim that as your own success. Great Chinese tradition.

          • Alex Dương

            Are you actually insinuating that even after adjusting for inflation, Chinese who lived from 1949 to 1958 were better off than Chinese who lived from 1978 to the present? Really?

        • takasar1

          and of course the west happily wondered in for the benefit of china. lol. they were being kept out by the ccp, salivating at the thought of a huge market and then, when the floodgates opened slightly, they ran in, regardless of ‘human rights’. if trade and outsourcing leads to faster economic growth, so be it, much better than having to wait 2 centuries for modern living standards. the only reason you paid for them to make your own products was because your people would much rather pay 10 cents less for a sweater.

        • Eidolon

          The belief that Western multi-nationals went into China to lift the Chinese out of poverty has to be the most ignorant, self-congratulatory, and overtly arrogant bullshit I’ve ever heard, and that’s against the backdrop of China calling itself the center of the world.

          Coming from one who actually runs one of those ‘Western multi-nationals’ – companies aren’t going into China to run charities. They’re there to make a buck. Insofar as Western companies have sustained Chinese economic development, they have reaped even greater growth themselves from the profits so generated. Investment is a two-way street: I give you money, and you give me [hopefully a greater amount of] money back.

          So yes, the West is responsible for China’s growth these last few decades – and simultaneously, China is responsible for the West’s growth in these last few decades.

          • Rick in China

            “I give you money, and you give me [hopefully a greater amount of] money back.”

            How does someone with so little business sense “run one of those ‘western multi-nationals’.

            That’s obviously not the money trail, you don’t GET money from China – you take product or service at a low cost – and the profit comes from the overseas sale with higher margins had you produced/serviced domestically. You don’t get ANYTHING back (monetarily) from China (at least not in regards to the manufacturing boom which pulled so many Chinese’ out of abject poverty after several failed communist plots.) Therefor, the statement by wes707 you’re arguing against is far more closer to the truth than your own, also his by the way did NOT imply anything about charity..only that due to the massive injection of foreign capital (in exchange for cheap labour) China was able to escape the clutches of a starving mass. That’s undeniable.

          • Eidolon

            You and I are talking about different business models. Using Chinese workers for cheap labor is a whole different ball game than direct investment. But it still comes down to the same principle: spending money to get more money. China’s development was initiated and is sustained by the greed of the global elite. All this talk of mutual benefit is an afterthought, a way to make it easier to gain leverage and to sleep at night. At the end of the day, it’s the same deal no matter where you go: the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer.

          • Eidolon

            * relatively speaking, of course.

          • Jahar

            noone said they did it for that reason. They just say it happened. Just like the fact that the ccp did it too. And we know their reasons were different.

        • 42

          If that is so,why years and years of western investments and markets haven’t lifted most of Africa out of poverty? Your case therefore is flawed. It isn’t western influence that has lifted China out of poverty, it is the will and entrepreneurship of chinese people that lifted them out of poverty. And China has done much more to the development of Africa, than western nations have ever done is the past few decades! That is Chinese ingenuity at work!

          • Ken Morgan

            Because western investments are designed to make the western investors wealthy at the expense of Africans! Like giving food aid for several years to distort the food local food markets driving the local farmers out of business. At which the food aid suddenly has a price MUCH higher than the local farmers sold at. However it is more of a leave the local people to themselves they may fight they may kill each other but eventually they will build something of their own.

          • Eidolon

            Western investments are designed to make Western investors wealthy. Full stop. Whether it is to the benefit/expense of Africans/Chinese is irrelevant. It’s up to the locals to make it worthwhile to themselves. Capitalism isn’t about helping the rest of the world develop. It’s about using money to make more money. The end.

          • Ken Morgan

            Sure if you go back to the Adam Smith invisible hand principle. However modern day (crony) capitalism which incidentally we used to call fascism has some major problems. It is extremely short termist burning the future for today, which is maybe why western economies are in such a bad way. As the trust has evaporated. Like when Monsanto fucked over a whole load of farmers in India. You think China wasn’t watching?

            Or even the quality problem, like when Sony got its first White CEO, the quality went to shit. Same with Mercedes cars the 90s and 80s used to make good cars now they are unreliable.

            Secondly there is a marxian end game approaching there is a beast called ouroboros. Crony capitalists see labour as merely an input. They don’t see that workers are also consumers. They automate, they cut staff, sure good for the short term bottom line. What happens when nobody has any money to buy stuff anymore as the jobs are all automated or outsourced away? This has happened to the USA there is NO way back.

      • lacompacida

        Please do not forget PRC plunged hundreds of millions into abject poverty, and tie them in chains to the cruel and ruthless dictatorship of CCP.

        • Kai

          This isn’t accurate. Most of the poverty, abject or otherwise, was pre-existing. Remember, this was after a devastating war. Most everyone was fucked. Even before that, it wasn’t as if wealth was nicely distributed throughout Chinese society. Most people were pretty damn poor. There were still “impoverished mountain regions”. It largely looked like how things are today, except after the war, with even more devastation and drudgery.

          It was because of that situation that the CCP came to power. The CCP won the poor rural peasantry over by promising a more egalitarian society and a fairer distribution of wealth. When the PRC was founded, they made huge efforts towards this with redistribution of wealth. MANY people’s living standards improved, often dramatically.

          We joke today that the PRC made everyone equal, equally poor. There’s truth in that but it also fails to reflect that the PRC did actually improve things for a whole shitload of people from what they had in either feudal or Republican China. The Cultural Revolution and Mao’s later years did screw many things up, but the key thing about Deng’s reform wasn’t that it made people poor, it was that it allowed some people to get rich and recreated an obvious wealth gap.

          It is literally more accurate to say the PRC lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty than that it “plunged” them into it. The latter is ahistorical (but it does resonate with the very small moneyed minority that lost their wealth to CCP redistribution).

          • Ken Morgan

            TBH China has been a shit storm for about 2000 years. Walter H. Mallory wrote a book about it in 1926 called “China land of Famine” (which is probably why Chinese media seems to use the famine trope a lot and Chinese people tend to greet you have you eaten yet? and rich people hand out grain/rice to the poor as part of tradition).

            It pretty much said China for the past 2000 years and probably before has had a famine every other year of varying intensity.

          • Confucius

            Interesting. How did he define “China” in his book? And what about “famine”? If the geographical coverage of “China” in his book were the size of PRC, which is about the size of Europe, do you think there might be a few “famines” somewhere in that geographical boundary every other year? Of course, the records of Europe would not be as accurate as the imperially kept records of Chinese dynasties, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Europe had a “famine” every other year for the past 2000 years. But we wouldn’t want to be Europe-bashing now, do we?

          • Ken Morgan

            I have no idea of the definition of the geographical area as the extract from the book says about 1800 famines since 108BC. China has changed quite a lot since 108BC I imagine.

            However I think some evidence towards it being worse in China is the fact that Chinese will eat anything that moves and several of their big famines are in recent memory. Your average British person will be squeamish about eating offal. While I see Chinese people eating chicken feet, animal urteri etc without batting an eye.

            This of course might be a wealth effect or the fact that all the inferior bits of meat get put into pies, hot dogs and baby food. Heh.

          • Confucius

            I guess you must be one of those who support Scottish independence then – referring to your comment about the British and offal – in fact, since you bring up “British”, I would have no doubt that under the British empire there would have been a famine at least every other year (since we’re simply dividing the number of famines by the number of historical years and averaging it out for no conceivable purpose but to blatantly make a negative point) …. I’m also guessing you also look down on the French for eating snails, the Japanese for eating uncooked fish and their eyeballs, the Italians for eating rotten cheese, the Canadians for eating leftover moose noses and of course, the really poor who can’t afford meat would be eating raw fruits and veges … and that’s before getting into the cultural discrimination arguments about whether something you feel squeamish about should therefore be condemned by everyone else around the world. Good thing we’re not all Indians (about eating beef), Muslims (about eating pork) or Jews (about eating any of those non-kosher foods) ….

          • Ken Morgan

            Why are you making so many unfounded assumptions? I don’t care about the Scottish independence. You also assume I’m British which I am not, while I do live here and have lived here for a long time I don’t identify myself as British either.

            Secondly as an over land traveller you realise that nothing is disgusting or barbaric. It is merely different. Some come from misunderstandings. For instance a cafe in Mongola. The first time I went there the lamb meal was nice, lots of lean meat. As I kept on going there the meat got fattier and fattier. From a western POV this was bad, but from a Mongolian POV they were giving me better and better meals.

            Balut eggs did surprise me though (thats surprise not repulse)

          • Confucius

            Haggis is sheep offal. The Scots have recently voted to stay with the UK.

            You equated eating things you find squeamish with poverty and inferiority. I pointed out that many non-Chinese people eat things that may be considered squeamish.

            My “assumptions” are not assumptions, they are a reply to your comments.

          • Guest

            Wait so you’re saying China took a 30 year detour in the desert to eventually end up with a free(ish) capitalistic market with extreme wealth gaps that previously existed?

            What about the land owners and the previously wealthy patriots of China that contributed massive amount of personal wealth to fighting the Japanese, only to be hung as traitors?

          • Ganplosive

            Wait so you’re saying China took a 30 year detour in the desert to eventually end up with a free(ish) capitalistic market with extreme wealth gaps that previously existed?

            What about the land owners and the previously wealthy patriots of China that contributed massive amount of personal wealth to fighting the Japanese, only to be hung as traitors?

            A lot of it could’ve been avoided if you ask me, but it is what it is today and yes the CCCP did do some things right

          • Kai

            Wait so you’re saying China took a 30 year detour in the desert to eventually end up with a free(ish) capitalistic market with extreme wealth gaps that previously existed?

            I can’t be the first person to give you that read on PRC history, can I?

            What about the land owners and the previously wealthy patriots of China that contributed massive amount of personal wealth to fighting the Japanese, only to be hung as traitors?

            What about them?

            A lot of it could’ve been avoided if you ask me, but it is what it is today and yes the CCCP did do some things right

            Yes, a lot of people think a lot of it could’ve been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20.

      • nqk123

        strangling them then release them for some air and call it saving/helping/lifting.

        • Alex Dương

          You don’t actually think that Chinese who lived in China from 1949 to 1958 were better off than Chinese who lived / live in China from 1978 to the present, do you?

          • nqk123

            it’s better because they loosen their hand.

          • Alex Dương

            I agree. My disagreement with your original comment is that it suggests that the Chinese are actually worse off after 1978 than they were before 1958, since a person who has just been strangled is clearly worse off than he was before he was strangled, even if he is let go.

          • nqk123

            my comment never suggested such a thing. strangled before 78 and loosen it after 78 is what my previous comment implied

          • Alex Dương

            I read “strangling them then release them for some air and call it saving/helping/lifting” as implying that the reforms after 1978 don’t really count as “help.”

          • SongYii

            only one guy on this thread didnt understand your comment.

          • Alex Dương

            If I shoot you and then call the police, did I help you? Or hurt you?

      • Who Gin Tau

        Killing your grandparents is ok when I give you some money as compensation?

      • da_shan223

        I think we will all do better to understand that “freedom” and “harmony”
        are two ideals that will always stand in conflict. it’s okay for china
        develop it’s own political ideals without western ideals being seen as
        the standard. they may seem to be stumbling to get things “right” but
        that’s partially because we westerners struggle to see our own
        chauvinism.

      • Color me stupid, but what’s so great about celebrating a corrupt,
        communist country’s birthday? I hate Mao because of what he did to my grandad and his business. And how did it lift “millions out of poverty? Isn’t it just the same as it is before communism came to China? Couldn’t China grow and lift millions out of poverty without Mao’s “help?” This is confusing to me.

        • ray

          Mao did many stupid things. What the CPC did after Maos death is correcting his mistakes. Also, China before the CPC took control, already was a poor and backward country compared to others. Mao just made it worse.

          However without a reformer like Deng Xiaoping(with the hard work and sacrifices of the chinese people of course), China today would still be a backward country. They stll have alot problems to deal with, though.

          About your statement of “what’s so great about celebrating a corrupt, communist country’s birthday?”. Well, what is so great about honouring war criminals?(Japan). If you are not a hypocrite, you should oppose this as well.

          I agree that the PRC may not be worth celebrating but it’s just for the sake to create some holidays, comparable to the “Day of German Unity” we have here in Germany.(It’s not the same as PRC but you get my point).

          • I don’t think honoring war criminals is right, but I could say the same thing about how the US army mourns or honors their war criminals from WWII and Vietnam War as well. The US Navy in WWII were war criminals that’s for sure, but they were never convicted because they were the victors. However, “almost” every single soldier “fought” for their country regardless of their actions regardless of whether it’s Axis or Allies, so in a way they should be given some “sympathy” for being courageous and fighting for their country. So in a way, I don’t believe I am a hypocrite.

            Because of my last conversation on ChinaSmack, I’m going to put a warning here that I am still ignorant about world history, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

            But otherwise, I guess I get your point. Thanks for educating me about the CPC.

          • Alex Dương

            Did you attend public high school in Canada? What did you learn in world history?

          • What, did I say something wrong? :/

          • Alex Dương

            No, I’m asking to get a better idea of what your educational background is.

          • Oh okay. I thought you were you going to criticize me and call me names for being stupid. Guess I got too paranoid. Sorry about that.

            I don’t think I learned world history as I had other courses to take. I don’t plan on being a historian but rather a mechanical engineer instead. My dream job is to invent military applications or build military vehicles.

            Btw, I hope you won’t mind, but do you think we can be friends? Anyway I can periodically chat with you like on facebook, IRC, and etc?

          • Alex Dương

            You should take an introductory world history class, and feel free to message me here at chinaSMACK.

          • So I simply make an unrelated comment on any article when I ask a question, and you won’t get mad at me for being offtopic? Is that what you’re saying? If so, thanks.

            I’ll try to take an introductory world history class when I get into college next year, but it’ll depend on my schedule and the cost for the course.

          • Alex Dương

            If you want to ask me something, sure.

          • mr.wiener

            When I first looked at history, it was the perspective of a child: We were the good guys, they were the bad guys, right and wrong were very black and white. Later as a young man I read all the complexities of the characters involved…The “good” countries were also responsible for horrid acts and had tacitly supported people who would make your stomach turn, I even learnt that some of the bad people hadn’t always been this way.
            As a much older man I’m starting to return to a more monochromatic view…despite the complexities involved and though knowing as I do the foibles and petty selfishness of the parties in conflict people must act to protect themselves and prevent the extinction of their way of life. We also have to protect ourselves from ourselves from our ourselves and have in place a system of checks and balances to protect us from those who would tyrannize us, or do harm in our name.

          • Sorry, I didn’t really get the 2nd half of what you said. Do you mind rephrasing it? Also, may I ask what that has anything to do with what I said? I do admire that you care about me though. Thanks. Heck, I think I’m pretty lucky since the mods here don’t hate me and actually care about me. Or am I being naive?

          • mr.wiener

            We don’t hate you, it would be like kicking a puppy.

            2nd half recap: Returning to a more black and white view , but realizing there is greater complexity and being mindful of such.
            Good example Curtis Le May, US air force head responsible for the firebombing of Tokyo. Most famous quote “bomb them back to the stone age” regarding the bombing of north Vietnam.
            In my teens this guy seemed to me to be the worst type of military-industrialist, neo-fascist [teen age left wing babel]…One day I read an interview he had done, he denied nothing, but when pressed as to whether the fire bombing of cities was a war crime he said: “I have no doubt, if the other side I would have been tried and executed as a war criminal”. I admire his honest, but it made me realize these are people we should keep behind a glass marked:
            “Break in Case of War”.
            We should never let them rule us. If Mao had stepped down after the first party congress and retired to the countryside to boink teenagers and write crap poetry his legacy would be different to the Evil God-Emperor he became later… But China had no system of checks and balances to remove him…or perhaps the political maturity to realize the danger he posed.
            Study, ask questions, don’t believe blindly.

          • ray

            You are welcome. Please don’t misunderstand, I didn’t try to brand you a hypocrite, I was just comparing two similar events.

            I am also aware that the US also has a bad history of war and war criminals(in fact, the war criminal John McCain is a senator).

            I really think war criminals(unnessary cruelity like rape, civilian bombing who have no way to defend themselves ect..) should be seperated from the soldiers who fought to defend something very important).

          • You’re right, but the downside is that it’s hard to separate all the war criminals from those who simply fought for their country.

    • jon9521

      The Chinese people deserve a better government that they presently have. A country ruled by corrupt officials who ironically call it a co**unist government when it has one of the most uneven distribution of wages.

  • mr.wiener

    Happy birthday People’s Republic of China…
    Hope you enjoy your present(s).

    • DOMINOS

      PIG GO HOME!!

      • mr.wiener

        Banned.
        Good night all.

  • JayJay

    The positive sentiments come from people who are well off and people who are so fucking blinded to see their plight caused by their own country. A country is prosperous or not, you need to look at the poor, and how they are treated.

    If they love their country, breath its air without a mask, drink own milk powder, stay in your own country, and buy Chinese

  • lacompacida

    A 65 year old country with 5000 years of history. How fake can it be ?

    • Confucius

      How fake can what be? That a 65 year old country has a civilisation that is 5000 years old? Note that I’m not arguing that their civilisation is 5000 years old – with indisputable records we can only say that it is at least about 3000 years old – but your statement only makes the point that you hold a bigoted view of the Chinese, not the point that your question thinks it is making.

  • x1sfg

    Thank the PRC for turning what was historically one of the most cultured societies on earth to superficial drones devoid of class or ethics.

    • jin

      Thank the western countries for that, they attacked china first

    • Kai

      As much as I hate the CCP/PRC, this is an ahistorical judgements. It romanticizes pre-PRC China as if its society was characterized by culture, class, ethics, or lack of superficial drones. None of this was true except in the aristocratic elite that was an extreme minority. But the common people? Read contemporary accounts (and criticisms) of pre-PRC Chinese society, whether fuedal or Republican. Read Lu Xun.

      This isn’t to say the PRC didn’t do things that arguably damaged Chinese society or its generalized ideals and aspirations, But this sort of romanticism muddies the waters.

      • SongYii

        if expats want to cast blame and derision on the party for the state of civility in china, by all means, let those particular dogs lie! :-)

        moreover, the last century hasnt produced any lao tzus or… the guy that made the earthquake machine, dont recall his name at the moment. badasses of china history.

        • Kai

          No, when Chinese people make ahistorical judgements about other countries, I don’t let them lie either. I have to be fair. It’s the only way to contribute to constructive discourse.

          China produced plenty of badasses in the past century. They’re just too contemporary for us to enshrine like Lao Tzu. Maybe in a few hundred years, they’ll be held in higher esteem. So many historical people we hold in high esteem today weren’t all that appreciated in their times. Plus, Westerners tend to be unfamiliar with the esteemed figures of China’s recent history because they aren’t typically as well-versed and educated in Chinese history but instead Euro-American history. It’s not their fault, but it’s important to note how our ignorance doesn’t mean their nonexistence.

          But to keep it light and bank on pop culture that Westerners might be familiar with, all hail Bruce Lee? Ip Man?

          • SongYii

            dont know ip man. bruce lee is certifiably badass.

          • Kai

            Check out the movie. It’s pretty good. DON’T check out the sequel, which indulges in the evil foreigner cliche. It made me cringe so hard by how shameless it was.

          • David

            IP man (near the end of his life) was one of Bruce Lees first teachers. When he was younger he assisted in the resistance against Japanese aggression and was a national inspiration because of his martial arts. He was pretty interesting, I head they made a movie about him, so should be able to find it.

      • Gerhana

        do you think its better to have a cultured elite than to have none at all, even though it is a division that benefited the few? when I think about this issue, im not sure where my stance is. Was not China the country that other East Asian look up to once upon a time? I remembered reading some books where at the Japanese court they learn to write mandarin, play chinese instrument, recite their poetry and many more, as the teaching for the elite. Besides, culture advancement, during those time are the product of the elite, since they have more time to contemplate and create, in comparison to the mass / public, where their time are spent mostly for survival needs.

        So on one hand, these elite advanced the culture. On the other hand, the mass are usually left out, and it seems that it is exclusive and only available to the elite.

        So my question: do you think its better to have a cultured elite than to have none at all, even though it is a division that benefited the few?

        • Kai

          Yes, I think it’s better to have a cultured elite than none at all. They serve as aspirational role models that lift up the rest of society (though not always for the better of course).

          To add another bit of commentary, it’s interesting to compare how Mao and the CCP held up the peasant as an ideal versus how the United States at the same time held up “the middle class”. It’s also interesting to see how both have easily to arguably eroded over time.

  • Wodowsan

    I love how that want to be children. No sense of wanting to be adults so they can make their own decisions. My mother always said “I am raising you to be a man, not to remain a child.”

    • Kai

      Dude, they’re saying they’re children of their motherland metaphorically.

      • Confucius

        I’ve found that it’s the people who don’t have enough understanding of Chinese culture and language who seem to be most critical on this forum. They’re always misinterpreting the story or the comments or the tone of voice of the comments, and always with a negative slant rather than a positive one.

      • Wodowsan

        1) Children cannot choose who their parents are.
        2) Children cannot replace their parents for better parents.
        3) Children do not have the responsibility of making decisions for the household, that is for the parents to decide.
        4) Parents will decide what their children can see and read (censor) but it is ok for the parents to see and read.
        5) Children must obey their parents.
        6) Parents can take their children’s money and property any time they want to.
        7) Children do not own the house, the parents do.

        Dude, are those that support the Party really only speaking metaphorically?

        Wanting to live under the tyranny of anyone is not being a man. It is being a child or a slave. Wake up, Dude.

        • Kai

          Yes, you are perverting a metaphor of identity into one of subservience. In other words, you are reading too much into a simple phrase that is not unique to China or the Chinese language. There are far better remarks that reveal a belief in or promotion of individual subservience to the state. This is not one of them.

          • Wodowsan

            Just keep telling yourself that, Kai

    • Confucius

      It’s actually quite telling that your mother has to keep telling you “I am raising you to be a man, not to remain a child”. Is she still saying that to you? Perhaps you should reflect on that and wonder why. Hint: having the capacity to appreciate and respect others (ie, developing out of the self-centred universe of childhood) is one trait of maturity.

      • Wodowsan

        Such a witty reply. Your personal attack has completed proved my comments wrong. Well done!
        As Confucius says “If you don’t have intelligent reasonable rebuttal, make a personal attack.”
        For your information my mother died young, at only 66 and she was not talking about me, she was comparing her parenting skill to those parents that mother their children too much and don’t let them grow up to be independent responsible young men and women. Instead those other parents seem to only want to keep their children as children forever and have them obey them even when they become adults with their own families. Sound familiar to anyone you know?

        • Confucius

          There may be hope for you yet. Next time you feel a comment dismissing other people as children is coming out of your mouth (or fingers), hopefully you will stop long enough to consider, did I enjoy being dismissed as immature? Next step: go back to the comments and reread them assuming that you said them yourself, then work backwards and see if you can understand why they said what they said. Kai gives a hint lower down in this thread … Turn your reading comprehension dial to ‘figurative speech’ and your bias dial to ‘neutral’.

          • Wodowsan

            I was replying to them calling themselves children of the motherland. And I was comparing what they were saying was actually extreme accurate for those that support being dominated by a dictatorship.
            A lack of wanting to be responsible for yourself, allowing others to decide what you can see and read, allowing others to make decisions for yourself, and having no choice in who makes your decisions for you – sure sounds like a child to me. Spin any way you want. It is not being a man when you allow others to dominate you. You are still a child or a slave.
            “But what about America? America.,,, blah, blah,,,” You are correct too Americans have allowed their system to turn them into wards of the state too, and slaves to corporate America. At least Americans are not brainwashed enough claiming proudly how they are “children” of our motherland.
            If Parents dominate children in all societies. Beijing is always painting themselves as the parents, and the people, Hong Kong, Macau, Tibet, and the people should just be “harmonious” children. “Harmonious” in Chinese means “Shut up and do what your told.” And that is what you are so proud of?

          • Alex Dương
          • Probotector

            What you linked is the word ‘homeland’, a different term. Apart from the Chinese, I’ve only ever heard of members of the former Soviet Union refering to their country as the ‘Motherland’; in Nazi Germany, it was the ‘Fatherland’. This idea of parenthood being synonymous with the state is typical of countries with dictatorial regimes that control their people. I think that’s what @Wodowsan was getting at.

          • Alex Dương

            Did you even read the first paragraph?

            A homeland may also be referred to as a fatherland, a motherland, or a mother country, depending on the culture and language of the nationality in question.

            Wodowsan tried to argue that this term is typical of dictatorships. He is wrong, period. You will find it across many countries, many of which are not dictatorships. I gave Liechtenstein as an example, but that is just one example.

          • Probotector

            Yes I read it, and further down it states that the phrase ‘motherland’ was used mainly in the USSR and some Latin American dictatorships. Fair enough, it’s not exclusively dictatorship nations that use this phrase, but it is primarily.The point is that the phrase ‘motherland’ is typically used in nations that are dictatorships, as a way of portraying the state as a maternal figure in of itself.

            Not sure what the deflection of HM’s Govt. is supposed to prove. We don’t see the Queen as a maternal figure from which all truth, rights and sustenance originates. However, that is how many who call their nation ‘motherland’ see their governments.

          • Alex Dương

            Yes I read it, and further down it states that the phrase ‘motherland’
            was used mainly in the USSR and some Latin American dictatorships.

            It does not say that at all. And you can check for yourself that the national anthems of the Netherlands and Denmark each contain a reference to “fatherland” in their respective languages.

            Why am I not surprised that you dismiss my reference to HMG as a “deflection”? If I wanted to play the ridiculous card that Wodowsan tried to play and that you defended, I could say something stupid like why is it called Her Majesty’s Government? Do you want to be slaves to a monarch? It should be the people’s government!

          • Probotector

            Deflection is a real term, no need to put it in inverted commas.

            Bringing up an irrelevant argument as a means of attack is deflection, and I already debunked it anyway.

            To reiterate my point, and that of woodowsan, many of those (not all, as I already conceded) who embrace the concept of a parental, dependent relationship with their government and country are usually subjects of a dictatorship that decides their political lives for them. I wouldn’t agree that they are necessarily slaves as such, but they are at least submissive and subservient to the will of whoever governs them.

            Now, should we necessarily blame them for this? Woodowsan thinks so, and he might be right, as the adage goes, ‘all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing’, and after all, many have stood in defiance of tyranny before.

            However, in the case of China, many are oblivious to a life beyond tyranny, and others may not care, as long as they’re happy. The rest of them may think the idea of resistance is futile because it’s never worked in the past, and the task is insurmountable,considering China’s size both geographically and demographically.

            It’s certainly true that national pride is strong in China, as it should be in every country, and this, with or without democracy or genuine political freedom, is enough for many of them. Some could call it brainwashing, others might call it good as it gets. In any case, I at least agree with woodowsan that more needs to be done to improve the situation, and that being willfully subservient to one’s government, or to anyone for that matter, is not the way humanity is supposed to live.

          • Alex Dương

            I put it in commas because you have a habit of overusing it. Anytime an analogue from your country to something you or someone else claims is especially Chinese is brought up, you immediately reply with “deflection.”

            Well, no, if you or someone else is trying to argue that something is especially Chinese, then if there is something similar from your country, bringing it up is most certainly not deflection, and it would be very much relevant.

            And you didn’t debunk it, either. Unless you mean to tell me that you think Liechtensteiners, Danes, and Dutch believe that their countries are paternal figures “from which all truth, rights and sustenance originates” because they each either have “fatherland” in their national anthems or in the names of major political parties.

            many of those (not all, as I already conceded) who embrace the concept
            of a parental, dependent relationship with their government and country
            are usually subjects of a dictatorship that decides their political
            lives for them.

            I don’t think you can back this statement up. The Wikipedia article that I linked to does not say what you said it says, for example. To make this argument, you have to ignore that a lot of free, democratic countries don’t have any problems with referring to the country as the “fatherland.” You would also have to ignore that the word “patriot” is ultimately Greek in origin, where patris refers to fatherland. Thus, whether knowingly or not, anyone who calls himself a patriot has ascribed a parental relationship between himself and his country. I think you said once that you served in Afghanistan. I’m sure you’d call yourself a patriot to your country; does this mean you’re dependent because the etymology of the word connotes a father-son relationship?

            Come on. Kai and I are not defending the CCP. We are just pointing out that this is a really bad argument to make. You have to ignore so many things that contradict the argument for it to proceed. Why do that, especially since there are much more obvious instances of what you want to argue against?

          • Confucius

            It’s strange to be arguing over the meaning of the word used in a translation when the translated word has a different meaning. While you and Alex argue over ‘motherland’, the Chinese phrase means, as Kai explains above, ‘the country/land of our ancestors’. The practical application of that word in Chinese newsreports inevitably has a theme of unifying the various groups that are seeking independence from China, most notably Taiwan, but appeals to the common socioculturolingual ancestry rather than asserting a dictatorial mandate. Basically they use the word to say, we are all the same people. It’s like how the US tells the UK, Australia and Canada that we’re all one people because we all speak English and have/are strongly connected historically to the British empire.

          • Kai

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland#Motherland

            They’re synonymous. 祖国 zuguo isn’t literally “motherland” either. It literally is “kingdom/land/country of my ancestors”. Motherland is also so non-unique in English that it’s been in the dictionary for eons.

            Read down further on that Wiki link for “Fatherland”, so we can avoid this whole “motherland” and “fatherland” association with repressive/evil governments argument that is being hatched. It’s silly.

            Wodowsan is trying to argue that a figure of speech used by a Chinese netizen reveals some aspect of Chinese idiocy. All the guy said was “We’re all Chinese”.

            If you want something the guy said that may reveal some level of idiocy, try “The homeland will ultimately choose those who are loyal to it” which is far more questionable. However, if you can read the original Chinese, it’s also questionable just what he meant.

            Wodowsan once claimed he wrote a traditional Chinese to English dictionary. It confounds me how he got this so wrong.

          • Wodowsan

            So what? Other lesser men see themselves as children of their “motherlands” makes it is ok not to take responsibility for your own nation? That you should leave it to a handful of men you did not choose to lead you? You should just obey and rollover to their “divine” rule? Men that will shut you down for even asking questions?

            Any man, from any country, that see themselves as a child of any motherland, especially run by a gang of, what is it now, seven? That he did not vote for, that he cannot vote out, and who decides for him what he can see and what he can read, is not a man.

            He is still a child, as they proudly state themselves, or worse are willing slaves to their masters. He is not a man. A real man does not accept censorship, a real man does not accept leadership that he has no voice in.

            There are many real men in China, unfortunately they are censored, intimidated, and imprisoned by the state. That is the China of today and I fear the America of tomorrow.

            That is what happens when too many “men” settle to be mere “children” of the state.

            In stead of celebrating the party and being proud of being their child, you should be standing up with real Chinese men and women, like Tan Zouren, Feng Zhenghu, Bao Tong, Chen Guangcheng, Chang Jianping, Wang Tuntao, Ai Weiwei and many more. Take responsibility of your own nation, and if say China cannot, then what are you saying is wrong with the Chinese people? It is clear then I believe in the Chinese people more than you do.

          • Alex Dương

            So what?

            So stop trying to argue that this is a Chinese thing. It is not. It is not even a thing of dictatorships. Liechtenstein is a democracy. The largest newspaper in that country is the Liechtensteiner Vaterland. One of the main political parties is called Vaterländische Union. Do Liechtensteiners want to be slaves too? Or is this just a cultural equivalent to 祖國?

            The rest of your comment is just an incoherent litany of straw men not worth replying to.

          • Wodowsan

            keep telling yourself that, Alex.

          • Alex Dương

            “If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

          • Kai

            Really? The French are “lesser men”?

            The Chinese netizen said nothing about not taking responsibility for his own nation.

            Do you not see what you’ve done here?

            You took a Chines netizen’s figure of speech saying “we’re Chinese”, projected a connotation of “children not taking responsible for themselves”, and then stuffed that into the Chinese netizen’s mouth.

            You’ve completely straw-manned the Chinese netizen based on your own inability to read Chinese, a valid English translation of that Chinese, and comprehend methaphors.

          • Wodowsan

            I said those that will willing submit to the iron rule of the Party. That have no faith in their fellow Chinese having a voice in their own nation. I listed you just a few Chinese that have stood up against the tyranny of the state. Men and women I wish I could have the same courage as.

            As for the French, too many stepped in line with the Fatherland when the Nazi’s took over. Yet many brave French fought in the underground, not willing to just be children to the State.

            Supporting a one-party dictatorship, not being in the streets protesting like they are in Hong Kong, for nothing more than the right to choose your leadership and have the power to peacefully remove poor or corrupt leaders is not taking responsibility for your own nation. You (those that support the rule of Beijing) Have handed over their rights as Chinese citizens to a group of gangsters that send their children and money to America.

          • Kai

            First of all, I never said you said all Chinese. [Edit: I see you’ve now edited this out.]

            I understand you have certain opinions about Chinese people who “willingly submit to the iron rule of the Party”. The point remains that you used a Chinese netizen’s comment that didn’t say or suggest that in order to launch your diatribe. You misrepresented what a person said.

            The French do not call their country “motherland” because of the Nazis. The personification of one’s nation as a “motherland” or “fatherland” is not something spread by the Nazis. Stop it.

            All of this rhetoric about the CCP one-party dictatorship is a red herring distracting from the relevant issue: You completely perverted a Chinese netizen’s figure of speech into saying things the Chinese netizen did not say or intend to say.

            That is either stupid or dishonest. Pick one.

            You hate the one-party dictatorship in China, fine. You hate the Chinese people who don’t revolt against it, fine. But for the love of god, don’t go around demonstrating your utter failure to comprehend metaphors and inability to read Chinese by putting words in people’s mouths.

            Fauna translated 祖国 as “motherland” there for variety. Notice how she translated it as “homeland” in other places. They are synonyms. The literal translation of 祖国 has no personification. It literally means “country of my ancestors”. The Chinese netizen is NOT referring to himself or other Chinese as literally “children” to a “mother” figure. He is saying they are all descendents of the country of China. It is a metaphor of identity. It is not the metaphor of subservience you twisted it into being.

            Stop it.

          • Probotector

            “Harmonious” in Chinese means “Shut up and do what your (sic) told.” And that is what you are so proud of?”

            Even so, many in China still don’t do as they’re told.

          • Wodowsan

            Well then they are not being “harmonious” and “troublesome.” – And thanks for pointing out my typo.

  • Alan Dale Brown

    Despite its flaws – people in China should love their country; there’s nothing wrong with that. A true patriot works to fix the problems of their country.

    • Don’t Believe the Hype

      Your second sentence should start with the word “However..”

    • David

      But they are celebrating the birthday of the CCP not China. Don’t you think there should be (despite what the party says) a distinction drawn?

      • Kai

        The CCP wasn’t founded on October 1st, the PRC was. They’re celebrating the founding of the PRC as a state, not China as a historical nation.

        • David

          True. I guess I should have been more clear and said they were celebrating when the CCP defeated the KMT. So while the CCP was founded more than 2 decades earlier (i I remember correctly wasn’t it the mid-late 20’s?), the victory over the KMT led to the accession to complete power of Mao and the CCP. This is what so many people seem to be against, not the actual birthday of the PRC. That being said, I think it is perfectly normal for the PEOPLE of a country to celebrate their countries birthday.

  • takasar1

    love the insecurity of those on this blog. only an inferiority complexnthe size of jupiter will allow one to be upset and offended at the fact that others celebrate with pride their own nation’s birth. too many insecure expats here though…

    • SongYii

      i think people here see it as a celebration of the party (which it sort of is, but not really). these same people wouldnt have anything negative to say about most other countries’ national day.

      would you think expats feel inferior if you read the same type of comments on northkoreaBANG?

      as far as im concerned, countries are not things that should be celebrated anyway. i just like the fanfare.

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        “as far as im concerned, countries are not things that should be celebrated anyway. i just like the fanfare.”

        i could’t agree more !!

  • GhettoBoy

    Happy Birthday China!

  • happy birthday!!!

    • HaydenG

      yes happy birthday to the communist party of china. The birthday of Nazi Germany is January 30th 1933. Don’t forget to say happy birthday to the Nazis as well.

      • Capitan Picard

        Mentioning Hitler in discussion is something called Godwin’s law. Read about it. It seems that you don’t want to see their amazing progress just for the past 30 years.

  • When you “buy” property in China, it is my understanding it is a 70 year lease, so with China turning 65, we are at 1865 days and counting down to when we find out what China will do when these “leases” start to expire.
    Any guesses?

    • hang

      Less than, and it’s on a case by case basis how long the leases are. Besides, there are countless incidents of the government violating property rights (taking land by force, demolishing homes, giving nothing or almost nothing in compensation).

    • David

      I believe it is 70 years from when the property is developed (i.e. built on). Now I have been here a little less than 2 years and I can not IMAGINE any private building lasting 65 years. They do NO maintenance. The buildings which are 10 years old look like they were built in the 1950’s. Therefore, I don’t think the 70 year limit is a real problem, I see the wisdom of the government here. Your building will fall down long before that.

  • B*tches, Leave

    One of the many reasons why USA is the best country in the world is that although it was discovered not so long ago, it has the oldest government in the world!

    • hang

      [citation needed]

    • David

      I think what you mean is it has the oldest continuous representative democracy and the oldest constitution still in use today. This is not the same as having the oldest government.

  • Amused

    China deserves better. May she find find her stride, her pride, and her rule of law in the next 65.

  • don mario

    65 years and counting.. but how many left? the ccps are numbered.

  • Foreign Devil

    Is this the anniversary that they will commenmorate by sending PLA soldiers into HK to shoot and kill China’s pro-democracy youth? The world is watching…

  • Capitan Picard

    China NUMBER 1 ECONOMY VERY SOON ! Greetings from Europe !

    • HaydenG

      Its barely more than half the US GDP and you really think it will be the number 1 economy “very soon”?

      • Ken Morgan

        GDP as the only measure is extremely dodgy though. For instance you have cars sitting in traffic burning petrol. This is an UNPRODUCTIVE activity yet it is counted as GDP.

        Or consider rent, renting is considered as GDP when it isn’t a value adding activity. Worse still is Imputed rent whereby if you own your house mortgage free the government considers the rent you would have to pay even though no money has changed hands as part of the GDP. A HUGE % of US GDP is retail. Hell the G Sachs Aluminium scam where they moved blocks of Alu from one warehouse to another to inflate the price is considered ‘a productive activity’.

        Compare SKorea and the UK. The UK by and large makes nothing we sell houses to each other for more and more credit our biggest export is food. Our economy based on GDP is twice as big as S Korea.

        S Korea on the other hand, they make cars, ships, microchips weapons and construction machinery. They change steel into precision machinery. They change a low value commodity into a higher value good. They add considerable value to the inputs. Container ships of goods leave S Korea daily. Yet their economy is considered to be smaller than the UK?

        • HaydenG

          Thats not how economics works. You can’t judge which kind of production is valuable and which kind is not. Economics is a scientific field that simply measures and predicts.

      • Capitan Picard

        Well it is not my prediction but from relevant world institutions. Besides, China is way more cheaper than USA. Also, when other countries abandon dollar as main exchange currency especially for oil, it is going to be bye-bye petro-dollar, and USA economy is going to collapse. The process has already begun !

  • HaydenG

    65 years of imperialism, 65 years of concentration camps, 65 years of the worst human rights abuses in human history. On behalf of the free world, F**k China and shame on the US for not doing more to support the forces of capitalism in the Chinese civil war. Truman had no problem nuking Japan but he couldn’t spare a few battleships and bombers to prevent the holocaust that has become communist china? Shame.

  • Confucius

    I don’t exactly understand “轮子” refers to, presumably it is the Chinese internet equivalent of “wumao”. You’ve made the same post a few times in the past.

    Posters who accuse others of being “wumao” are usually immediately dismissed by most readers who are smart enough to realise that accusing someone of being a paid shill isn’t a valid counter-argument against whatever point is being made, and often those same posters then retain that label of being bigots and irreconcilable so any subsequent comments of substance are equally dismissed. It will also put the back up of whoever you are writing that comment to. Of course, that person may already be a bigot and whatever argument you put to them isn’t going to make a Chinese bigots are still at a disadvantage to Western bigots in our current world order.

  • Wodowsan

    I assumed nothing.
    Only that you are avoiding my point that supporting a one-party dictatorship, allowing others to make decisions for you and your nation, allowing others to censor what you read and see, allowing others to the right to take your property at any time and trying to make it sound so sweet and nice by comparing yourself to being a child subjected by your parents or your motherland is a tool they use to control the people.
    It has nothing to do with being Chinese. It has everything to do with uber-nationalism, socialisms, communism, Maoism, and Marxism. Willingly being a ward of the state is not being a man or woman in any nation or among any ethnic group.
    The Party is not China, and China is not the Party.

  • Eidolon

    The term underwrote implies Western companies issued a carte blanche to China for developing itself, when it is the exact opposite: Western companies desperately *wanted* the Chinese to open their markets to our companies and our investment because that’s how *we* make loads of money off of their cheap labor and fad-driven consumers. wes707 thinks the Chinese ought to thank us for giving them the opportunity to get rich. It’s nice to think so, in the same way that it’s nice to think that employees ought to thank their bosses for their jobs everyday. However companies – well, properly run companies – don’t hire you to do you a favor. They hire you because you make them money.

    The cost of ‘opening China up’ is the birth of our own impoverished masses. As jobs flee the West, so does the consumer purchasing power. In a world of trade barriers and protectionism, that’s bad news for Western companies because a communist regime eg China’s is able to shut you out for being Western. That’s why Western multi-nationals see globalism as the end game and why Western governments see FTAs and free markets as the MVP of future interactions with Asia. Because in a fully global system, it doesn’t matter which country your company’s from, in which case it doesn’t matter whether both the West and the East become slums – so long as the multi-nationals are making a profit off of it.

    It’s also why all this talk about West vs. East is outdated. The system we’ve created is ‘post-national’ in the sense that it’s about supporting the interests of the business and political elite – ie the rich and the powerful – no matter which country they’re from.

  • mike921

    So, Mao and Zhou hid in the hills while the Nationalists battled the Japanese, then the US finished the Japanese off and the Mao circus began. Yea, happy birthday for that.