Hong Kong Protesters Besiege and Harass Mainland Tourists

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This is currently the #1 trending microblog post of the past 24 hours on Chinese microblogging platform Sina Weibo…

From Sina Weibo:

@张启明v: Hong Kongers really have gone too far!

The images attached to the above microblog post are the same as the following photo feature found on many mainstream portal sites:

From QQ (1 & 2), Sina, and Phoenix Online:

Mainland Tourists Again Besieged in Hong Kong Shopping Mall

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February 15, following last weekend’s protest targeting mainland tourists [“independent” tourists not part of a tour group] and parallel traders in Hong Kong’s Tuen Mun district, yet another group has launched an anti-parallel trader protest in Sha Tin town, protesting there being too many mainland tourists negatively impacting the lives of residents. For a time, the protesters had altercations with mainland tourists, resulting in temporary disorder, police using pepper spray, and taking away multiple people. Photo is of the protesters besieging mainland tourists.

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Mainland tourists suffering demonstrator’s taunts/ridicule.

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Protesters chanting at mainland tourists, “Get lost/go back home!”, with some of them pointing fingers and exchanging insults with mainland tourists.

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Some among the demonstrators held signs insulting mainland tourists.

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Police attempted to form a human wall to separate the protesters and mainland tourists.

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The demonstrators are protesting that there are too many mainland tourists negatively impacting the lives of residents.

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Protesters charged mainland tourists with thumbs down gestures.

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Police officers used pepper spray and brandished batons to disperse/break up [altercations].

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Some demonstrators clashed with police officers, with police officers using pepper spray and brandishing batons to disperse/break up [altercations].

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Some demonstrators clashed with police officers, with police officers using pepper spray and brandishing batons to disperse/break up [altercations].

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Police took away three people, with one male accused of attacking police.

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Some among the protesters waved the British Hong Kong colonial flag.

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Some among the demonstrators waved the British Hong Kong colonial flag. As the Spring Festival/Chinese New Year holiday approaches, large numbers of mainland tourists have visited Hong Kong, with a spokesperson for the Special Administrative Region stating that the Tourism Commission has already coordinated with the relevant government departments and Hong Kong tourism industry in working out multiple measures to cope with the large stream of people going between Hong Kong and the mainland during the Spring Festival “Golden Week” holiday.

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Due to mainland prices remaining high, with many daily necessities and consumer goods being more expensive than they are in Hong Kong, along with product quality problems constantly being exposed, many mainland tourists are attracted to purchase in Hong Kong, among them also being many parallel traders earning a profit on the price differences. Photo is of 2013 January 5, at the Hong Kong MTR’s Sheung Shui station, of tourists carrying large and small packages waiting to pass cross the border.

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Starting from 2012 September 15, hundreds of Hong Kong netizens responded to calls on internet social networks by gathering near the Sheung Shui Station Exit C to demonstrate, protesting parallel traders from the mainland flooding the Sheung Shui station, engaging in smuggling, occupying nearby sidewalk space for long periods of time, and inducing price increases in the district, negatively affecting the lives of residents in the northern district.

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Throughout this time, some protesters have become excited, even bringing out the colonial flag of the British Hong Kong era, proclaiming “Hong Kong autonomy/independence”.

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Even more were demonstrators raising “Chinese people, get lost back to China” signs, criticizing government policies that allow “independent travel [for mainlanders visiting Hong Kong, without being part of a tour group]” and mainland tourists.

Comments from Sina Weibo:

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西西_同学:

If they’re going to misbehave like this, then just close channels for awhile, block economic [assistance] for a time. A child that misbehaves should be disciplined. If you keep spoiling him, he won’t know who the parent is.

B-SUNSHINE-j:

For future purchases, just go to Macau then. Macau is also cheap and the scenery and the scenery is beautiful as well. If you want to go to Disney, Shanghai is building the world’s largest Disney theme park. Without mainland tourists to go consume, they will go bankrupt and become unemployed, and then we’ll see these arrogant British dogs in tears begging us to go there. [困死了][困死了]<[困死了]<

三思小新:

The problem is they love the UK but the UK doesn’t love them.

睡睡睡睡不醒的旺旺儿:

At the border are a bunch of Hong Kong and Macau residents pushing little carts coming into the mainland to buy vegetables…everyday transporting a bunch back… If they can do it, don’t come.

终将变成土豪的小Neil:

I want to go spray them [with bullets]. [别烦我] Fucking, every day those bastards come to Shenzhen and Zhuhai to buy vegetables and water. How come I don’t see you people getting lost back to where you’re from?

百鬼繪卷雪川喵:

Don’t drag Macau into this. A lot of mainlanders think of Hong Kong and Macau as one. Whenever Hong Kong makes a fuss, Macau is often dragged into it QAQ. It is also very convenient to buy things in Macau, and most importantly, their attitude is good, treating you as one of their own. Macau also has so many good things to eat, and isn’t as crowded as Hong Kong. Macau has a lot of history and scenic sits to see, not just casinos QAQ. Come to Macau, smooches.

远山雨林:

Why are they wearing face masks? It just shows that these Hong Kongers also know that their behavior is shameful and low. [晕]

一路走来你累吗i:

Then don’t come to Shenzhen to buy fresh produce???

ZXX晓:

Talk about truly forgetting one’s roots, like a girl who was forced into prostitution and has fallen in love with her john, no longer wanting her home/family.

仍需努力先森:

I suggest Hong Kongers stop speaking Cantonese. That belongs to our Guangdong, which has nothing to do with you British dogs, right? I’m from Guangzhou [Cantonese], and seeing you people speak Cantonese fucking disgusts me. [拜拜]

See轨话连篇:

Stop all the water, the meat, and the fresh vegetables! [怒][怒]

刘娜娜娜娜娜6:

It truly is enough. Although it is “one country, two systems“, don’t forget that Hong Kong is part of China. I can’t believe they even raised the British flag. Talk about going too far.

Lucky_-goddess:

If it were for China taking you in in ’97, you wouldn’t even be a fart today.

_月月月月有锅炉:

All wearing face masks, afraid of being photographed, and having their mainland entry permits revoked?

我的名字里有個H:

Big Xi [Jinping] must be made aware that his little son is being naughty again and must be parented.

大象大象呵呵呵:

1. This is the behavior of only some Hong Kongers, so we can’t generalize them as Hong Kongers. For example, if you speak in a silly way and I said Shanghainese truly are a bit silly. 2. A conflict does not happen for no reason. There really are a lot of parallel traders. Being unhappy is a quantitative change, while clashes are a qualitative change. 3. It’s very obvious that this is a follow-up to Occupy Central, so it is even more important to not be led around by the retarded, becoming their gun barrel, shooting recklessly.

我患有小细腿恐惧症:

This dog may have gotten used to being whipped by the British and now that it has returned to its former good master, it is no longer used to it and begs to be whipped.

飞天小秋:

Actually, Hong Kong’s current economy is already on the decline, and with the maturing of many mainland trade/commercial centers, Hong Kong no longer has any superiority/comparative advantage. These people behaving like this will only make things worse for Hong Kong.

niaiwome0014:

The British dog under “one country, two systems”. A bunch of slaves to the West raised and indulged by mainland policy!

J_soso33:

Stupid cunts. You guys don’t have the money to afford certain things so you can’t bear to see others buy them? Hong Kong is part of China. I’ll go whenever I please, to buy what you guys can’t afford to buy, to piss you guys off, you stupid cunts.

Comments from Sina:

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Crazysponge[四川绵阳]

Looks like Hong Kongers really want to be British dogs.

佛子陵[江苏无锡]

What’s so great about Hong Kongers anyway? Are they so superior? What’s wrong with the mainland? Back during the financial/economic crisis, if it weren’t for the mainland government helping you guys, how many of your families would’ve gone bankrupt? Not knowing to be appreciative, all day inciting internal strife, discriminating against mainlanders.

香港商场再次发生围堵内地旅客事件 落伤伤[上海]

So depressing. If you like the UK, then go to the UK, okay? Hong Kong is also a part of China. The only option is for you so-called Hong Kongers to leave China’s Hong Kong. Since you’re not Chinese, why stay in China? 话筒

香港商场再次发生围堵内地旅客事件 迷情手中沙[北京]

This bunch of people would rather be dogs supplicating themselves licking British butt than stand and be Chinese people.

香港商场再次发生围堵内地旅客事件 落伤伤[上海]

This is simply what China is like, so if you don’t want to be Chinese then get lost out of Hong Kong! Get lost, get lost, get lost!!!

香港商场再次发生围堵内地旅客事件 Jisseo[湖南衡阳]

Would it kill mainlanders to not go to Hong Kong?! Don’t go there to make purchases, and then see if they can still be so arrogant, the ingrates.

香港商场再次发生围堵内地旅客事件 金创骑士[江苏南通]

Just let Hong Kong survive on its own then. They make it sound as if the mainland has to beg them, as long as sovereignty isn’t lost. Let’s see what their Hong Kong will become without mainland support. Arrest that one person holding up the British flag and deport him/her!

香港商场再次发生围堵内地旅客事件 shuiximg7868[江苏徐州]

The mainland should reflect on itself. Are this many people going [to Hong Kong] just for fun? Can the mainland’s imports not be a little cheaper?

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Written by Fauna

Fauna is a mysterious young Shanghainese girl who lives in the only place a Shanghainese person would ever want to live: Shanghai. In mid-2008, she started chinaSMACK to combine her hobby of browsing Chinese internet forums with her goal of improving her English. Through her tireless translation of popular Chinese internet news and phenomenon, her English has apparently gotten dramatically better. At least, reading and writing-wise. Unfortunately, she's still not confident enough to have written this bio, about herself, by herself.

  • Toasty

    Can’t say I blame them…. Hong Kong used to be a nice place, where people behaved in a civilized way. I was there just last week and it isn’t anymore. Mainland behavior is certainly starting to become the norm there rather than the exception.

    In the 6 years that I have been regularly going there the change has been quite startling. If I was a Hong Kong citizen I would be appalled at what was happening to my city and very tempted to do something similar.

    • Wave_R1der

      Doesn’t matter who made Hing Kong worse. Insulting and harassing people isn’t the way to remedy things.

      • Wave_R1der

        *Hong Kong. Darn phone needs bigger keypads.

        • FloridianInCanada

          You were so close to saying King Kong.

          • Wave_R1der

            hahahaha. If only the autocorrect mistaken Hong for King.

          • mr.wiener

            It’s not his fault we should have just left him alone on his Island damnit!

          • Wave_R1der

            But we need it for science! Missing link!

          • mr.wiener

            Science wasn’t ready for him! *sob* they had to bring him down to their level so they wouldn’t feel small and powerless…

          • Wave_R1der

            Will this thing do?

      • RickyBeijing

        They aren’t harassing out of choice. They are looking for greater options towards autonomy after the umbrella revolution failed. This is like a last resort, and from that stance I completely agree. FUCK the mainland locust horde. I’ve seen them act like fucking animals in HK and if I lived there I’d be sick of it too.

        You can honestly stand in any popular place in HK and (without any prior cultural or linguistic knowledge) point out the mainlanders. They are a disgusting , uncivilised shower of cunts who SHOULD be chastised for what they do in HK.

        • Alex Dương

          I don’t see how harassing tourists does anything to advance the cause of greater autonomy beyond bring negative attention to HK.

          • RickyBeijing

            I Imagine their goal is to give HK a bad reputation in the mainland through social media (this article wasn’t censored) and to cause visitor numbers to go down, which is a start. The Hong Kong economy is primarily based on financical services as opposed to the mainland which is based on primary and secondary sectors. HK doesn’t need tourism money and can import anything they need from anywhere they want. creating a divide between the masses is a beginning to the autonomy. The CCP wants HK to be a ‘grey area’ of Chinese politics, while HK wants black and white, so creating an ‘us vs them’ atmosphere is understandable.

          • Alex Dương

            OK, let’s say (much) fewer mainlanders come to HK. You said this is a “start.” How does this get HK one step closer to genuine universal suffrage?

          • Wave_R1der

            Next thing you know, they would be in deep trouble since their largest customers have gone missing.

            Also, since universal suffrage, “applies to” Hong Kongers, I don’t see how chasing away mainlanders, who are foreign to their eyes, would add things up.

            Basically, they have done nothing but wasting time and creating problems.

          • Jahar

            It doesn’t but it lessens the problems the mainlanders cause them.

          • Alex Dương

            Probably. I just think Ricky shouldn’t have made a political connection between these protests and the Umbrella Revolution. I agree with one of the Chinese netizens that they are related, but mostly in the sense of venting out frustration in the aftermath of an unsuccessful movement.

          • Wave_R1der

            From what I see, it does nothing but inciting hatred and ostracization to the protesters..
            Also, if HK is finally “autonomous”, from who will it get their water and food other than the mainland?

          • Jahar

            I hate this question. The US is autonomous, but they still get things from other places.

          • Teacher in China

            According to the BBC, HK made $28 BILLION just last year from Chinese ML tourists – you really think they can do without that money?

          • Markus P

            Every tourist location has an issue like this.
            At what point does it become damaging, that is where the line is normally drawn. HK is an extreme example as it is a small area attached to a country with the biggest population, many of whom what to visit. Although visitors are starting to travel to other locations due to protests.

          • YoonBae

            Let us see what will happen in the near future. Time will tell us whether HK needs tourism money.

        • Wave_R1der

          Woah Woah Woah, calm down there racist, what if you are among the mainlanders, and you aren’t the stereotype of them? Wouldn’t you get offended too?

        • Sum Ting Wong

          ‘You can honestly stand in any popular place in HK and (without any prior cultural or linguistic knowledge) point out the mainlanders. They are a disgusting , uncivilised shower of cunts who SHOULD be chastised for what they do in HK.’

          Racist comments like this should be removed. BTW, you are disgusting.

          • Jahar

            It’s not racist. Mainland Chinese isn’t a race.

          • Wave_R1der

            Actually, Chinese is simply an umbrella term for every Chinese around the world and even China itself. The word “Chinese” may refer to Hokkien people, Hakka people, Hong Kongers, Macanese, etc.

          • RickyBeijing

            Yes yes yes, thank you for your opinion. There’s always someone taking unnecessary offence to something,

          • FYIADragoon

            I can’t even overstate the irony of someone named “Sum Ting Wong” calling anyone else a racist or disgusting.

          • Sum Ting Wong

            lol. I’m Chinese. troll harder next time.

          • Mateusz82

            Well, by stating it at all, you can overstate it.

          • 100fires

            …and “Sum Ting Wong” is not racist?

          • silent observer

            And Sum Ting Wong is not?

          • takasar1

            he says this sh*t to make noise. and then runs and hides behind his “you don’t know anything about me and what i experienced” bullsh*t whenever we call him out on being an attension-seeking a**hole.

        • Teacher in China

          You know, I have to disagree with this generalization. I went to HK just last week with a Chinese tour group from Dongbei. Fucking DONGBEI. None of the people in our group spit anywhere, littered, talked overly loud (except in already noisy areas), or otherwise embarrassed themselves. MLers are learning, slowly, that when they travel to places outside of the mainland, they have to adjust their behaviour.

          Of course, they also had to be lectured by the tour guide in Shenzhen for over an hour about the “dos and don’ts” in the bus on the way to the crossing to HK. And again by the HK tour guide when we were on our way to Disney.

          And speaking about class – the tour group out of HK was just as classless, and maybe even moreso, than any group I’ve ever experienced or heard about on the ML. The tour guides frequently talked down to us and patronized us, going so far as to say unless we spent money, we weren’t teaching our children what it means to be “cultured”. It was disgusting.

          Which also reminds me, the only time that we had a problem was while jaywalking, something the HK tour guide pushed us into doing. A family of four got stranded in the middle of a busy street. The guide was lucky nothing happened to them.

          So everyone can whine all they want about MLers, but the HK people aren’t exactly paragons of virtue, cleanliness, and orderliness.

          • RickyBeijing

            Ofcourse, you are right. I don’t disagree at all. But as I mentioned in my earlier comment, it sounds like they are looking for a more ‘us vs them’ atmosphere, where the Mainlanders are chastised and pointed out for their behaviour, and the HKers are not even if they do the same thing.

            As I said, this whole thing doesn’t affect me, so I don’t really care. But having witnessed what I did, I completely understand the HK sentiment. I wouldn’t want the MLers coming over either. If there were more stringent controls to allow the more affluent MLers visit, or controls on visitor numbers like other countries have, the problem might not be as bad.

          • Edward Kay

            The Hongkies never like the mainlanders to begin with, even before the take over. One part is they think the have higher standards, especially under the care of whites. Like so, we in other parts of the world, never really liked HK then. They were rude and looked down upon others.
            Last year when I was there, I asked directions to a hotel; in Cantonese. The guy replied in English. Later, I was told this was to distinguish.
            But as for Ricky’s comment on the horde part, I’m afraid I have to agree to a point. The checkpoint line at Shenzen/HK actually separates heaven and hell.
            Lastly, to all Chinese and even non-Chinese, Gong Xi Fa Cai!

          • Teacher in China

            I LOVE the name Hongkies. Whoever came up with that deserves some sort of prize.

          • ScottLoar

            Look up honky or honkey and discover the term as applied to whites by blacks goes way back to the early 70’s. In the early 80’s I commonly heard honky used by locals in Singapore referring to Hong Kong tourists who would typically talk loudly in an elevator crowded with strangers, throw money around and generally act like the braggarts they were, same as in Chiang Mai, Thailand, which attracted “hongkeys” for the cheap price and purportedly beautiful white skin of its women.

          • bujiebuke

            “The tour guides frequently talked down to us and patronized us, going so far as to say unless we spent money, we weren’t teaching our children what it means to be “cultured”. It was disgusting.”

            I’ve heard and read about this tactic. I’m curious if the tour guide noticed if you were there, I’ve assumed up till now that your a white guy. And as a generalization, Hong Kongers tend to be on their best behavior when in the presence of westerners.

          • Teacher in China

            I think she just assumed I couldn’t understand Mandarin. Hers was pretty shitty actually, but I understood enough to know that I didn’t like what she was saying.

          • Whats wrong with “Fucking Dongbei” you ignorant bastard! Your just a scummy Beijing wai guo ren who deserves to show more fucking respect!

          • Alex Dương

            You can express your point firmly and politely.

          • I understand that mate, but saying “Fucking Dongbei” offends not only me but ALL the people who are actually from Dongbei like myself. He has no right to assume that all dongbei people are like that, and so it made me angry to his comment.

        • Bing

          wow, did i see a white supremacy here or another native HK cunt?
          if you stand in a group of earth people, i can point out you at one sec cuz you have “racist cunt” written on your forehead.

        • Ivan

          Oh look a stupid ignorant racist cunt making his stupid generalisatons.

          It seems white people always suffer a 50 point IQ drop when dealing with Chinese, and their critical thinking abilities goes out of the window and their inferior minds can’t help but make stupid generalisations like this moron here. Like not fucking considering how there’s a huge difference between some country bumpkin Chinese and urban Chinese.

          Fuck this retarded moron. Notice how the Chinese don’t judge Europeans based on the actions of football hooligans,

          • Alex Dương

            Feel free to disagree with anyone here. Just try to do it politely.

          • Ivan

            Why? He didn’t bother so I won’t.

          • Alex Dương

            You can express your disagreement with people politely. I disagree with Ricky’s comment, but he wasn’t attacking Wave_R1der personally in his reply.

          • RickyBeijing

            Why are you barking racist? I don’t understand why you need to bring skin colour into a social issue. It seems your have a deep seated issue within yourself that you need to seek the racist comments on a website like this. My comment wasn’t racist, I was discussing my issues between two group of people. Making that racist was your prerogative, not mine. I have lived in China for a long time and I know there are civilised Chinese people.

        • marc

          Racism alive and well. Many mainlanders you pass by quietly, don’t even notice, then notice a few you don’t like and generalize on the whole

        • YoonBae

          Seriously? Are you telling me that what they are now, showing no respect for tourists and verbally attacking others, is to pursue autonomy? What they are doing is just the opposite to the very idea of democracy!

          • Ezrahhh

            These low end tourists from the mainland are becoming a serious nuisance to the locals, try to put yourself in their situation, don’t sit on your high horse talk empty democracy, that is so hypocritical. Obviously the situation has became so dire that these locals felt no way out but to decide to take matters into their own hand to defend themselves, which in this case is to publicly shame narcissistic ill behaved mainlanders. Nothing wrong with that. Like you wouldn’t do it when somebody having his or her toddler shit or piss all over your lawn. For God’s sake, the police shot 3 unarmed black men in 3 separate incidents just over one weekend in the good ole US of A, if you wanna about racism.

          • Kai

            You just presumed guilt. How do you know these people are “narcissistic” and “ill-behaved”? Just because they are mainlanders? Who are tourists in Hong Kong? Because a mob is targeting them? So you go along with the crowd?

            Sure, give negative feedback to those who are actually guilty of unacceptable behavior, but not people who merely share some shared characteristic. The very reason why this recent run of protests and incidents of harassment are making the news is because these protesters have been consistently targeting entirely innocent people, including their own (HK locals), simply because they presumed those people were “mainlanders”. Too many of the protesters are too often harassing people indiscriminately. They aren’t targeting people they witness actually doing bad things, they’re targeting people they simply think are “mainlanders” who might be liable to do bad things.

            However much one sympathizes with their aggravation over the ill behavior of some mainland tourists, one should not sympathize or even empathize with their willingness to indiscriminately target anyone they presume to be a “mainlander”. That’s like getting mugged by a Mexican and then taking out your bitterness on anyone else you encounter that you merely suspect are “Mexican”.

            There may not be anything wrong with publicly shaming those who deserve it, but isn’t there something wrong with publicly shaming those who don’t? Or does merely sharing a characteristic sufficient?

            We need to think through these things.

          • Ezrahhh

            look up the word generalization in dictionary, you mainlanders are the ones gave HK locals countless reasons to generalize, you mainlanders are the ones made yourself the public enemy of Hong Kong, no one else to blame but yourself, suck it and beat it

          • Kai

            Did you just presume I’m a mainlander (“you mainlanders”) simply for disagreeing with your presumption of guilt?

            I wonder if you’d use the same rationale you’re using here to justify unfair negative generalizations of other people, or the harassment of innocent people simply because they share a characteristic.

            For example: “You blacks are the ones who gave whites countless reasons to generalize. You blacks are the ones who made yourself the public enemy of whites. No one else to blame but yourselves. Suck it and beat it.”

            You need to think through these things.

          • Ezrahhh

            do you not know how to read?

          • Kai

            I read just fine. Always did well on reading comprehension tests. It might be more productive for you to explain what you feel I’ve misread, or reiterate/clarify what you’re trying to say and the point you want to impress upon others.

          • Ezrahhh

            if you knew how to read you wouldve got what I said, stop acting like an obsessive annoying tard, if you cant quit it see a shrink. I have no interest in carrying on a conversation with you. Beat it.

          • Alex Dương

            I think you will find another community more welcoming to your personality.

    • Cameron

      If HKers are unhappy with the political situation in HK/China itself, then they can try to persuade local people to protest. But bullying and harrassing people who have come to shop in your city is simply not on. It is the HKers who are increasingly acting like uncivilized people, not the mainlanders.

      • Wordup

        You realize they already did the protesting part right? It was called the Umbrella Revolution if you forgot. And before that, every year since 1997, they do a 1 day protest in the name of democracy.

        I agree what the Hong Kong people are doing here is wrong but you have to think on their side. They are pretty much fighting a losing battle. Nothing is going right for them.

        The real people to blame is the government. I mean, if your own people are constantly going to Hong Kong to stock up on most essentials, there must be a problem in China that the government should be looking at.

        • Kai

          I agree what the Hong Kong people are doing here is wrong but you have to think on their side. They are pretty much fighting a losing battle. Nothing is going right for them.

          Keep in mind that the same rationale is used for Islamic terrorism. I can empathize with frustration but still disagree with how that frustration is vented on the innocent.

          • hangupthatphone

            Protesting is wrong? Protesting is, in fact, so bad that it’s comparable with suicide bombing, human trafficking, kidnapping, beheading, mass murder? Look, Hongkongers are reacting out of desperation because of the tremendous impact the tourism is having on our city. But local protests are generally pretty orderly. It’s fairly common during a protest to wave angry signs and make thumbs-down gestures. Some people even get caught up in the heat of the moment and say things that aren’t polite. But the worst I saw on the news was one lady with a bloody nose and a few instances of the police using pepper spray.

            I think Hongkongers feel a need to educate visitors on how they are impacting our city. Someone has to, after all. Hopefully soon the government will allow regulation that limits the influx of Mainlanders and puts the resources (household goods, healthcare, education, real estate) back into the hands of the people who live here and pay taxes.

          • Alex Dương

            Harassing tourists and protesting on the streets are two different things, wouldn’t you agree?

          • Kai

            No, “protesting” isn’t wrong, but how you “vent your frustrations on the innocent” can be wrong. Very wrong.

            Your “reacting out of desperation” is precisely the “same rationale” I mentioned.

            I said something very specific, and I think the issue and its surrounding discourse would benefit from people who are not only more measured in articulating their positions but also take pains to be accurate in how they represent other people’s positions.

    • Cameron

      Yeah HK is/was an amazing city but lets cut the crap. Essentially HK used to be a nice place for Chinese born in Hong Kong to get rich (or those who were brave/fortunate to have escaped the communists) as opposed to the hand to mouth existence faced by their mainland cousins the past century. Now that their mainland cousins, the 99% of Chinese not so fortunate to be living in HK, are getting their slice of China Pie, a proportion of HK dwellers are throwing hissy fit. MY Hong Kong they shout, go home mainlanders!

      No sorry, not your Hong Kong, CHINA’S Hong Kong.

      • jon9521

        You misunderstand the reason for the anger. It is more related to the numbers of mainlanders entering and causing shortages of essential items such as baby milk and food ingredients because the mainlanders do not trust their own companies. In addition many of the mainlanders behave in a unsophisticated manner i.e. spitting and shouting. I have seen this in Louis Vuitton and Channel stores even

        • Cameron

          Yeah how can those poor people live without their LV and Chanel. The Humanity! i very well understand this is one reason for the anger but I think its vastly overexaggerated by these Hkers. Rather whats happening is mainland Chinese are being scapegoated for ALL the ills Afflicting HK. House prices, corruption, and politicians in the pocket of the CCP . . . geeky Hk college kids not being to afford a beautiful girlfriend.

          • jon9521

            Your reply does not make sense. You clearly ignored the comments wrt to essentials like baby milk and other essential everyday items. If you were in the same situation you would clearly be angered too. I do think that the HK government is part of the problem too -see comments on limiting numbers of mainlanders in at any time. However the local HK people do not have much say in that.

          • JayJay

            I thought there is a quota on milk powders. The ones that buy more are against the law. But it is up to the law enforcement to deal with it. How can a lynching mob claim civility over the ones being lynched?

          • Amused

            Dude… China… Law???

          • Alex Dương

            HK law enforcement.

          • JayJay

            Believe it or not HK has rule of law.

          • Amused

            True, but that’s a completely new concept to a lot of ML folks that are supposed to follow those laws. Things are more uhhhh relaxed on the ML.

          • Teacher in China

            There is. Each person is only allowed 2 cans, and the HK authorities check carefully at the border. There are huge signs everywhere stating it.

          • jon9521

            There is but mainlanders are smuggling it across the border. They offer a premium to wholesalers and shops and unfortunately they do sell them. I agree the wholesalers/shop staff should be jailed but the smugglers are the most to blame followed by the mainland government for putting their citizens in the situation where it pays to smuggle.

          • Ryo Saeba

            Each person can only carry 2 cans of milk powder back. If HKers were so wory about selling out or powder (which I have not seen), then the merchants can also limit selling to customers, but they rarely do.

          • Wave_R1der

            Eh, don’t be surprised. People, Chinese, Hong Lingers, French, Brits ,etc are getting more and more materialistic nowadays.

          • Alex Dương

            Your autocorrect is hilarious xD

    • Poodle Tooth

      What, people are shitting on the street now?

    • Stefan

      Mainlanders are far from the majority, so it’s the Hong Kong people that have degraded themselves…

      What’s mainland behavior by the way?

      • Wave_R1der

        It’s simply a gross generalization of bad attitudes attributed to one isolated incident. Basically, one stupid incident and they blamed it as “typical mainlander attitude”.

        • Zappa Frank

          well come on, not really. is the nongmin behavior that is common among mainlanders. Spit everywhere, pee on the streets, talk loudly, and so on… I cannot say is an isolated thing.

          • Wave_R1der

            Okay, that might be correct, but then again, that does not justify a right to bully people. Just like how a kid does not like your attitudes and then started mercilessly bullying you to no end.

            Where is this thing called “tolerance” went to?

          • Jahar

            For his question, it doesn’t matter if it’s justified.

          • Zappa Frank

            I agree that bully tourists is completely wrong. This is obvious, I’ve never wanted justify that

          • Kai

            It’s definitely not isolated, but it’s still wrong to rely on misleading vividness fallacies to justify inflammatory generalizations.

          • Zappa Frank

            I think the point is, the behavior of mainlanders in hk is a problem? Sincerely I don’t know, I’ve never even been to hongkong. My impression, just impression, is that although there may be a problem is used also as opportunities to blame on mainlanders the politic of xijinping. Since pacific dimostration didn’t give any result and Hong Kong, according to what I I read, is going to be more and more mainlenderize than for frustration of this situation some hkgers mistreat mainlanders. I wonder if people have changed idea from the time they were happy to back to China or simply people that didn’t voice before are voicing now.

          • Kai

            This is the same as seeing some black people behave a certain way and then generalizing it onto the black identity overall. If we don’t accept this rationalization in other situations, we have to queston why we might accept it here when the target is the mainland Chinese.

            I don’t think anyone denies that SOME mainlanders have behaved in ways that are widely understood as unacceptable in Hong Kong (or even in the mainland). These behaviors do irk, annoy, and infuriate MANY Hong Kongers. There is nothing inherently wrong with disagreeing with such behaviors.

            There is however something wrong with generalizing minority incidents onto an entire group of people and identity. These people, when push comes to shove, would have to admit that they probably encounter far more mainlanders who don’t engage in such behaviors in HK than those who do. It’s just that they don’t draw attention to themselves and thus aren’t readily remembered.

            So, it can be simultaneously true that mainlanders have behaved unacceptably in Hong Kong and that Hong Kongers have behaved unacceptably in how they have persecuted mainlanders over such grievances. Any rational, reasonable person would readily, even eagerly, acknwoledge this.

            While there have been many anti-mainland/er protests in Hong Kong, they are not all the same. The grievances being protested and the people involved can vary greatly. The above incident seems to be in response to parallel trading at the land border between HK and the mainland. The grievance here is that these mainlanders are coming over, increasing demand, which increases local prices. Another grievance seems to be that these tourists are making things more crowded, similar to how a lot of local Shanghainese people hate how migrant workers to Shanghai make things crowded as well adn rejoice when they mostly go home during CNY. These aren’t the only grievances in this protest, and the people involved could have many other grievances, including their general prejudices against mainlanders or their widely-reported misbehavior or uncouth behavior.

            The Occupy Central protests or the umbrella movement were (ostensibly) less about mainland tourists and their behavior and more about how the HK Chief Executive would be nominated and elected, what the Basic Law and Chinese central government “promised”.

            So, it’s important to be recognize that while there are protests, they may involve different people with different grievances and different finger-pointing. This case isn’t really relevant to Xi Jinping’s politics. This is more like locals vs. outsiders in a competition for resources.

          • Mark

            “This is the same as seeing some black people behave a certain way and then generalizing it onto the black identity overall.”

            No, it isn’t. “Black People” is not a country. “Mainland China” is. They aren’t the same thing at all, and it completely invalidates everything you wrote afterward.

            “There is however something wrong with generalizing minority incidents onto an entire group of people and identity. These people, when push comes to shove, would have to admit that they probably encounter far more mainlanders who don’t engage in such behaviors in HK than those who do. It’s just that they don’t draw attention to themselves and thus aren’t readily remembered.”

            I would love to see a statistic for this, because it seems you just made it up and then built an argument around it. It may be true, sure, but you based a large part of your argument on that without citing anything other than “probably” and “when push comes to shove”.

          • Alex Dương

            No, it isn’t. “Black People” is not a country. “Mainland China” is. They aren’t the same thing at all, and it completely invalidates everything you wrote afterward.

            If you want to go there, mainland China is not a country.

          • Mark

            Not too interested in arguing semantics. If you invalidate my entire point because I used “country” over “location”, then that’s your decision. But if that’s really the only response you have, I don’t expect many people to be comparing Mainlanders and Black People moving forward. Mainlanders are from the same geographic area where they are (more or less) educated under the same system.

          • Alex Dương

            Come on, Mark. If you didn’t like the way I invalidated your point, then you should not do the same to Kai.

          • Mark

            I’m trying to say “Mainland China” is a group of people that have location and education in common. I’ve been in China more than half a decade and been to seven provinces. It’s a bit ubiquitous. I didn’t see that much difference between people I interacted with in Xi’an, Shanghai or Anhui.

            I think comparing people from those locations, and then comparing a Black person who was educated in Cambridge, Massachusetts and one who grew up in the slums of the Ivory Coast is completely and utterly absurd. If you disagree, then that’s fine.

            Not every person in China is the same, there are numerous ethnic minorities and some go abroad and some don’t and stuff like that, but this isn’t some conspiracy with people all over the world out “to get” Mainlanders. Their behavior, on the WHOLE, IS that bad. Go to Thailand and you’ll see a sign that says “Please poo in the toilet in Thai and in Mandarin”.

            For the record, I love living in China, I have a great life here, I’ll be here for at least two more years, I’m married here, I’ve got great friends here, I speak the language. It’s great, I’m totally happy, but really, really bad arguments like someone’s skin color is the same as a location a group of people are from is completely and utterly ridiculous.

          • Alex Dương

            Thanks for your detailed reply. I think there is just a misunderstanding here. Kai of course speaks for himself, but to me, his point is nothing more than something you yourself pointed out: “Not every person in China is the same,” and more generally, “not every person [who’s part of a given “group”] is the same.”

            That’s it. Kai was not comparing people from one country to one “race.” He was just saying if people believe that “not every person of [insert group here] is the same,” why do it for mainland Chinese?

          • Mark

            Mainland Chinese have been raised, by and large, with the same ethics, values, education, rules of society and law across the board. Is it different on an individual level? Yes, but I’m just as likely to see an old man pooping on the side of the road in Tianjin as I am in Guilin, literally thousands of miles away. Which I have. I went to South Korea for two weeks, though, and in the countryside and in Seoul I didn’t see anything like this. South Korea is much closer than Guilin is, when using Tianjin as a reference point.

            I think grouping people by race is embarrassing. My best friend here in China is ABC, and I don’t consider her to be Chinese. She’s American. She was raised there, with core values and an educational system that focuses on what I focused on. She will be the first to tell you that she has much more in common with me than she does with anyone outside of my office.

            If you want to compare groups across SES or education or whatever, I would understand that. In the past however many decades, kids in China all crammed for the gaokao for years before going off to Universities, usually raised by parents that went through the Cultural Revolution. They have a lot in common in terms of what they’ve been taught, and what they learned.

            I agree with Kai that generalizing minority incidents onto a group of people is wildly unfair and shouldn’t be done, but if you are looking at statistical significance, I would say that statistically significantly speaking, these events do happen. Purely numbers based. Does that mean everyone? No, not in the slightest. If Kai, you or anyone else here posting is from the Mainland, I don’t assume you are going to come smoke in our bathroom while peeing all over the floor. It happens a few times a day here, and there are only two foreigners in our office and I’m sure it’s not me, so it’s definitely happening, but I don’t think every single person is doing it.

            I personally don’t think all Mainlanders are the same, some of my best friends here in China are from the Mainland. Two summers ago, one of them and her entire family came to visit and stay with my family in the USA for four days and we had just a brilliant time. Could not have been better. But in speaking of culture and generalities, Mainlanders have a long way to go when traveling abroad. I think it will happen in the next generation or so, but in the mean time, people will be talking about it. The best thing we can do is try to educate people when they are making mistakes and stiffen penalties for people who act like idiots abroad.

            Happy Chinese New Year, Alex, and whoever else is reading this. Hope everyone had a great one.

          • YoonBae

            Seriously? Mainland China has a population of 1.4 billion, and you are saying their education and location is common. China is a big country, its citizens varying wildly in basically all facets.

          • Mark

            I’m not saying it doesn’t, but they are all educated in the same educational system. That’s where the root of all of this starts. It is what it is.

          • YoonBae

            I would say they are very very different in all facets, and I am not so sure about what you mean by ‘same educational system’. According to what I have seen, China is a definitely very heterogenous country.

          • Mark

            I mean I’ve been all over China for work and the schools teach the same thing in the same way, in preparation of the Gaokao.

            If you are starting your opinions and statements with “According to what I have seen,” you have most likely already made up your mind about this so there’s really no point in discussing it. Cheers.

          • YoonBae

            Respectfully disagree. You are right in that we are all just stating our opinions.

          • Kai

            Yes, it is, because what is being likened is the generalizing of how some behave onto an overall identity.

            I never said “black people” is a country. I implied that it is an “identity”. It is, just as being a “mainlander” is an identity as well.

            I don’t have a statistic for whether or not people will actually capitulate to reason and admit that their generalizations are based on misleading vividness. Consider it my expression of optimistic faith that people indulge in generalizations and stereotyping but when confronted with reason will ultimately acknowledge them for they are. I’m sure there are plenty who will obstinately insist on their generalizations to their dying breath, but I’ll fool myself so I don’t go and off myself in despair.

          • Mark

            I don’t think you will ever be able to rid the world of generalizing, for what it is worth. And certainly making false premises based on nothing as part of your argument doesn’t help.

            As I’ve said before, I certainly don’t think that all people from the mainland are the same, and certainly ones who are treated like this in Hong Kong (who haven’t done anything wrong or broken any laws) is absolutely horrible. I will never argue otherwise.

            It does get to the point, though, where when you’ve lived in a place long enough, whether it is the slums of Cincinnati or Beverly Hills, you start to expect people in that area to act a certain way. That is completely void of skin color, religion, sexual preference, race or gender. When I lived in my suburb of Chicago, my rich, very upperclass suburb of Chicago, I expected all people there to normally just act a certain way. Same when my family lived in a nice area in Savannah. It is the same reason, why when I moved to downtown Chicago, people warned me to keep safe on the southside at nighttime. It is generalizing, yes, but there is truth rooted in that generalization. Does it mean every person on the South Side outside after 9pm is a rapist and a thief? “No, of course not. But there’s a lot of dangerous areas there, so be careful,” is what I would tell you.

            Now, I don’t think I need to worry about my safety in China. Never have in over five years. But people smoking in non-smoking areas, defecation in public parks, rampant littering from out car windows to simply walking down the street, jay-walking…it’s not dangerous, but these are things I see on a daily basis in China. They truly happen every day in my life here in China. Are these observations generalizations? No, they are experiences. I am not saying every person in this city, or every Mainlander in the world acts like this. But when it happens daily, that’s reason to me. I don’t know if living in a super rich area in Shanghai or Shenzhen and talking about my experiences as stereotyping is fair. My old roommate, who moved from Beijing to Shanghai, lives in a really nice area there now, and said it is kind of like living in Disneyland compared to living in downtown Philadelphia. If you lived in Epcot, you’d have a very different view of the United States than if you lived in Fresno.

            I hope you had a great Spring Festival, Kai, and thanks for all your work on the site. Cheers.

          • Kai

            I want to discourage inflammatory generalizations because they aren’t constructive to discussion and too often are the product of laziness or indulging in one’s casual prejudices. I’m under no delusion that my efforts will rid the world of it or its relative the “generalization”, but I still believe it is worth my bit of effort.

            I disagree with your contention that i made “false premises based on nothing”. Alex has already explained the crux of my point. The purpose of my analogy is to show how objectionable it is to generalize one’s negative impressions or contempt of the few onto a larger, broader identity.

            Whether that identity is that of a race or a nationality is not important, because what’s important is the negative inflammatory generalizing itself. We can change it to Chinese people having a lot of experience with Uighurs being pickpockets and thus generalizing Uigurs as petty thieves, and the point remains.

            I’m fine with you pointing out that “black people is not a country”. I never said they were. That wasn’t my point. Are you fine with my point that inflammatory generalizations are objectionable? As long as you are, there isn’t any meaningful disagreement between us.

            It is generalizing, yes, but there is truth rooted in that generalization.

            Note that I’ve repeatedly specified and stressed “inflammatory” or “negative”. We use “generalizations” all the time. My objection is based on how our usage contributes to or detracts from discourse.

            Look back to my earlier comment. Is there anything you disagree with my statement there? Should we accept people justifying inflammatory generalizations with misleading vividness fallacies?

            Sure, there’s an element of truth to every generalization, especially if you premise that “truth” on the mere existence of subjective personal observations, anecdotes, or feelings. With such a low bar, we can generalize any characterization we want to make onto any identity as long as we argue it’s the impression we’ve gotten. It’s a circular argument.

            Don’t however mistake my position as objecting to “generalizations” themselves. I recognize how common and human it is to employ them in our thought and speech. But not all generalizations are the same and thus we should exercise discretion in what generalizations we indulge in, tolerate, or encourage.

            I don’t think negative, inflammatory generalizations should be indulged, tolerated, or encouraged. If you agree, then we have no disagreement between us again.

            Remember, I am not unaware of many inflammatory generalizations about mainland Chinese being based on actual objectionable behaviors some or even many mainland Chinese are guilty of. I am not denying the bit of truth in these negative, inflammatory generalizations. What I am doing however is objecting to the negative, inflammatory generalizing, again, because they are rarely being uttered in the spirit of constructive discourse but rather as an expression of either intellectual laziness or petty prejudice.

            If you feel something I’ve objected to as being an inflammatory generalization is arguably not “inflammatory”, then by all means, let’s discuss it. But if you recognize that yes, some people here have indulged in inflammatory generalizations and yes, such inflammatory generalizations do not contribute to constructive discourse, we are again not in disagreement.

            Specific to your Chicago analogy, someone advising to be careful on the southside is indeed “generalizing”. Now, think about what would be an “inflammatory generalization” about Chicago’s southside. Think about what could be said and who could be listening for a generalization to become inflammatory and thus detract from discourse. Maybe something like “Southsiders are hoodlums and thugs?” What about “Southsiders are a disgusting, uncivilized shower of cunts”?

            We cannot lower ourselves to tolerating inflammatory generalizations simply because we reason that generalizations have a bit of truth in them and humans tend to generalize. As with all speech and behaviors, there is a spectrum and we draw lines. I draw my line at when a generalization is negative and needlessly inflammatory.

            Are these observations generalizations? No, they are experiences.

            I don’t think anyone said such observations are “generalizations”. People have however objected to others defending their inflammatory generalizations with the defense that they are substantiated by such observations and experiences. As I said above, that rationalization makes it acceptable for us to characterize any identity however we want as long as we subjectively feel we have cause for them. The person who feels they’ve had a lot of bad experiences and observations of black people would then be justified in whatever characterization of black identity he wants to make.

            I don’t accept that.

            I encourage people to exercise way more caution and restraint when projecting negative characteristics onto a broad generalized identity. It should be intuitive that our criticisms and contempt would be inflammatory to at least those who share that identity. It should be intuitive that we don’t like it when we are negatively generalized so we shouldn’t indulge in the same behavior against others.

            Does this help you understand my position? Where I’m coming from? What I’m referring to? What I’m arguing?

            Do you recognize that we can’t justify inflammatory generalizations by lowering them to being a mere “generalization” and then arguing that generalizations are based on some modicum of truth? Or that the popularity of a sentiment is enough to justify the expression of a sentiment? Do you recognize that there are ways for us to be critical of phenomenon without being inflammatory? That there is such a thing as being tactful and measured in our remarks?

            If so, we’re good. I hope you had a good holiday as well.

          • Mark

            Thank you for your time, Kai. I agree with “I don’t think negative, inflammatory generalizations should be indulged, tolerated, or encouraged. If you agree, then we have no disagreement between us again.” this. There’s a sliding scale with this type of stuff, and I think you and I are both on the same end.

            It’s difficult to keep people tactful and measured in remarks on the internet, but I agree it is important.

            Cheers.

          • Stefan

            Spitting on the streets, but is that a problem? You got shoes anyways?

          • Zappa Frank

            I don’t understand why all of the sudden you pretend to do not understand what the problem is asking retohoric question in all this topic, I m not going to follow you

          • jaded

            Moron

      • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

        Mainland behavior is not giving a fuck about the law.

        Hong Kong behavior is pretending to give a fuck about the law, then proceed not to give a fuck.

        • Wave_R1der

          Basically, both are the same. However, when Hong Kongers tell the mainlanders how much a piece of shit they are, it’s just like a grade F student telling a grade E student how much of an idiot is he/she.

          • Jahar

            Other way around.

      • jaded

        There you go again with your denial, through a question that seems rhetorical but really meaning “I don’t know about this, the Chinese people are so kind’ and all the other rubbish. You know full well what mainlander behaviour is. You couldn’t be that stupid. Just accept that many of your countrymen are nothing but vermin.

    • NeverMind

      Sorry to hijack this thread but I am a little upset by what I saw in our neighborhood building today in Guiyang, Guizhou…

      In the linked image below is a guy with a largely sedated dog (my guess is it is stolen). This guy is going to deliver this dog to the ground floor (red arrow) apartment. The occupants of that apartment are going the beat the dog badly before killing it for meat. This is the 2nd time in 3 days that they have done this disturbing shit. The first time I just saw them cleaning the body of the dead dog outside right in front of that building gate (I did not see them kill it). The 2nd time I saw this guy with another dog, I got suspicious and tried to click pictures from our balcony. However, I had to go out and could click only 1 photo with this guy waiting in front of the gate with the dog. Then later when I went down I saw the dog in their balcony. Later, my mom’s grandmother told me that they beat the dog before killing it.

      I am guessing these bastards are going to do this again in the next couple of days. Is there something that can be done here? Any animal rights activists who can take some action? I am ready to share the complete address if you can email me at ffran_inAtyahoo.com

      http://s11.postimg.org/aseoh8a77/Animal_Abuse.jpg

      • Kai

        Get a friend to search in Chinese for a local animal activists group to hook up with. They might be able to organize something. The neighborhood and its management may also object to such animals being routinely abused and slaughtered on their property, so they could apply pressure against the owner or tenant of the apartment even if there may not be strictly laws against it. Your best bet here is to draw more attention to what’s happening and hope public pressure stops it (more likely it’ll just be moved to another location).

        I’m trying to imagine what kind of clandestine dogmeat business would process less than a dog a day. Recently, there have been some well-publicized reports of dognappers being beaten up by crowds.

        • NeverMind

          My guess is these people have gathered for the Chinese New Year festivities in that apartment. What a bunch of sadist fucks to beat an animal before killing it!

          I’ve found a few Chinese Animal Rights sites and will check if they will do something. My SO is a local so she has said that she will complain to the management if this happens again. I plan to keep her family anonymous so they don’t get into any issues with these shitheads.

          I am not sure the rest of the people living nearby see this as an abuse. Most of the people around here look like the typical Tu3Hao2 to me.

          Unbeknownst to me, my wife had also taken a photo with her mobile while I was away. Here they are cleaning up
          http://s3.postimg.org/vyi0br1mb/Animal_Abuse2.jpg

          • Vance

            I just can’t abide eating dog. I know that this is a regular food item in other countries, but, gees…kill it quick and pound the steak with a meat tenderizer hammer. I can’t even look at these pics. I hope that you are able to get some help with this. Here in America it is taboo to eat dogs or horses. I think this might be becuase, during our pioneer days, dogs were a vital early warning to alert settlers of trouble and horses meant life itself to those out in the plains as water was too far apart for people to walk from one to the next. In think maybe for those reasons ingrained in us, it has become taboo to eat these animals. I know of some Americans who have gone to other countries and eaten dog, mostly to say they’ve done it, but I cringe when I think of eating a dog, and to beat it like that is just not right.

      • Stefan

        Don’t interfere in other’s problems…

        • Zappa Frank

          Good, that is really mafia style, turn your head and pretend you see nothing….

        • jaded

          yeah typical nihilism, don’t care about anything else just yourself.

      • ScottLoar

        “The occupants of that apartment are going the beat the dog badly before killing it for meat.” No, they are slowly beating the dog to death according to the common belief that doing so makes the blood run fast and tenderizes the meat. Moreover, black dogs are prized as being tastiest and the best protection against the winter cold.

    • Kai

      I think much of the “Hong Kong used to be a nice place” rhetoric is guilty of the nostalgia fallacy, just like how many other people always think things were somehow better in the past.

      For example, “where people behaved in a civilized way”. There have been tons of people throughout history who have been extremely critical of how Hong Kongers behaved, not least of all the British expats throughout their entire colonial government. This is ultimately an unhelpful generalization of one at the expense of another.

      I’m not sure I understand the suggestion that “mainland behavior is certainly starting to become the norm”. How exactly? Are born and bred Hong Kongers looking up at mainlanders and actively trying to emulate mainland behavior?

      That doesn’t make sense. What may make sense is that mainland behavior is more prevalent because there are more mainlanders visiting Hong Kong. But that even approach their behavior becoming the norm. They are a transient minority. By definition, their behavior cannot become the norm unless the majority resident population is adopting their behaviors.

      Are they?

      Hong Kongers I think would vehemently deny this!

      I would too. No one admires these uncouth behaviors associated with mainlanders (even if there are some, even many, local Hong Kongers who engage in similar — trust me, get out of HK island and the ritzier areas and see the rest of HK and its populace). It doesn’t make sense to say mainland behavior is becoming the norm.

      There have been changes in HK with increased mainland tourism, but I think people are underestimating how much misleading vividness and scapegoating is happening. I wish there weren’t at least 52 people (upvotes on your comment at this moment) who would be tempted to heckle and harass passing mainland tourists just because they share the same identity as other mainland tourists who are guilty of certain things we dislike.

      It’d be like mainlanders heckling and harassing a passing foreigner for the faults of other foreigners.

      We recognize how stupid that is. So why are we tempted here?

    • YourSupremeCommander

      So why don’t the wealthy HK people act this way? Why?

      Because they embrace the new opportunities to make more $$$ instead of pondering and wasting their time like these idiots. Without the RMB pouring in in the past 2 decades or so, where do you think the HK economy is at right now?

      If the mianlanders start switching gears and shop elsewhere like Macau, Singapore, or Korea instead of HK, these idiots would be back onto the streets in a hearbeat to beg for them to come back.

    • Mahmet Tokarev (Tajik Pride)

      I don’t approve of their tactics, but I do believe that Hong Kong should become an independent city state. This would be best for both HK and PRC.

      • Vance

        It tends to work out for the best for both places when, after being reared in imperialism, a state is then given independence. America gave the Philippines their independence in 1946, and both countries have benefited from the alliance relationship that resulted. We granted Cuba independence in 1902 and had similar benefits with them until the Communists took it over. We are also establishing similar relationships with former territories in the Pacific islands. When an imperial power willingly grants independence to a former territory, the relationship that results between former territory and former master, while not perfect, is usually mutually beneficial. I think that China and HongKong would have a similar experience, but China probably thinks they would lose out economically if they let the income from HK go.

    • Dolph Grunt

      So, now that this is in the news, it’s okay for anyone from the mainland to harass and attack Hong Kong citizens visiting the mainland for pulling this stunt. Right?

    • Luke the Duke

      Don’t know what the hell part of HK you were in but I was there around the same time as you and found it perfectly pleasant.

    • Mainlander

      You could say the same thing about Vancouver.

    • YoonBae

      If I were a Hong Konger, I would be appalled at what these extremists are doing: harass innocent tourists, verbally attack strangers and accuse others of smuggling on no basis under the disguise of pursuit of democracy. Is this the democracy they are asking for? No respect for others and blatantly invasion to others’ privacy. What an irony!

  • Wave_R1der

    These Hongkies really need to chill. Harassing people wont help the situation better. Not to mention the retards holding the colonial flag.

    So much for better democracy and conditions than mainland. People there get better quality in living, but bankrupt in brains and attitudes.

    • FloridianInCanada

      I think people fly the colonial flag as a reactionary symbol to the handover, but in my opinion, they should adopt their own, unique Hong Kong idenity rather than that of a British or Chinese possession. It also doesn’t help Hong Kong never had a flag of independence but rather of being a sub-national entity. It also doesn’t help that British rule was shit but slowly progressed until by the time the rule was coming to a close, it were the best years Hong Kong has ever seen. The British rule near the end made Hong Kong the wealthy Alpha+ city it is today. When the handover happened, disaster after disaster took place. The economy crashed and the new officials mismanaged the hell out of it. I know that the issue is deeper than this, but this is also one of the main reasons.

      • Wave_R1der

        Maybe it’s just series of bad flukes. Also, time. Time changes everything. Lashing out isn’t the way to cope with changes, but adaptation is. Lashing out won’t bring old times back too.

        Now I am not going about how the the British ruled Hong Kong since it fueled unnecessary tirades about wumao vs truth, but basically, from what I see, jealousy is the fuel to hate the mainlanders.

  • Ken Morgan

    As I said else where Chinese vs Chinese racism is possibly the worst kind of racism you see.

    Ironically it is just history repeating itself. 160 years ago in the clan wars the Cantonese prevailed taking the land of the Hakka and forcing them into tiny villages. Now somebody else appears to be eyeing the land and they have the gall to complain.

  • Cameron

    Seems many HKers hate the fact that mainland China, and its people, are now in many cases as rich if not richer than they are. In twenty years or so they have gone from being the undisputed jewel in China’s crown, up there with Singapore as the Asia city all Westerners would get excited about, to having to sit alongside Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen/Guangzhou in the new world order. Many you feel in HK could take working all the hours unde the sun to afford a rundown shoebox apartment under the shadows of HKs majestic skyline as long as they could still feel superior to the barbarian mainlanders mostly still living rural existences. But now take away that feeling of superiority “I’m Actually Hong Kong Chinese, you know” and whats left to do but shout nasty abuse at some old grandma day tripping from Shenzhen, or refuse to sell fruit to mainland customers? I wouldnt wish the CCP on anyone, but acting like spoilt brats isnt going to bring back the days of being Britain’s special little Asian pet.

    • Poodle Tooth

      Or it could be that they’ve got a ton of legit grievances (including against mainlanders, however far that should be down the list) and they lashed out at the actors they can actually get their hands on.

      If this crowd had a choice between mainland tourists and CY Leung, who would they choose to harass?

      • Alex Dương

        the actors they can actually get their hands on.

        Guilt by association?

        • Poodle Tooth

          In the cases of at least some mainlanders, yes. But that’s not what I’m getting at. It’s the same reason when there’s a riot in the US it generally isn’t wealthy neighborhoods that burn. It’s the same reason that ISIS mostly beheads journalists and aid workers and not soldiers. They’re not the most appropriate targets, but they’re what they have access to.

          • Alex Dương

            Point taken.

          • Wave_R1der

            Venting anger on wrong people. The easiest way out basically.

          • Poodle Tooth

            What alternative would you suggest?

    • Jahar

      You’ve met enough HK’ers to be able to form that opinion? Or you just think that because they don’t want a few million mainlanders in their city?

  • ma-li-huang

    Them calling mainlanders rude is hilarious.

    I can tell you from experience these HKers love money just as much as mainlanders do.

    Either way HK will lose its economic importance with 10-20 years and nobody will want to go there.

    • happygal74

      Most mainlanders are indeed rude. Nobody else where in the world whole heartedly welcome mainlanders…hahahaha….I for once, never like them coming to my country – best to stay put in China…hahahaha

      • Wave_R1der

        You know very well Hong Kong isn’t a country..
        And the world doesn’t care which Chinese you are from, you are still Chinese to the world. Full stop.

        • Jahar

          Most of the world doesn’t think of Taiwanese people as Chinese. And as time passes, and more and more mainlanders travel, the world sure will care.

        • SuperBall

          Clearly you misinterpreted the statement – no big, since it’s Chinglishy and whatnot. The “I for once, never like them coming to my country” should probably be interpreted as “I for one would never like to see them coming to my country” with emphasis on the would.

      • Nat

        Says the person from the country whose government welcomes mainlanders with wide open arms–and legs (Singapore.)

        • Wave_R1der

          I don’t understand the divisiveness of Chinese people from different countries, really.

          At least Macau and maybe Chinese Singaporeans know their roots, compared to Taiwan and Hong Kong.

          • Nat

            The Cultural Revolution. Multiple generations. Distance. Local influences. All these have contributed to the “divisiveness.” Add to that the fact that Chinese have always tended to be more competitive rather than cooperative, even amongst themselves–comes with being from a huge population, I reckon.

            Knowing that one’s ancestors came from China doesn’t necessarily mean that one has to or can sympathise/empathise with the Mainlanders–especially if said ancestors probably lived in–and left–a very different China.

            (What’s your origin, then? Just curious.)

          • Wave_R1der

            I see. Had the cultural revolution not happened, we would still see the Chinese culture intact in the mainland. Good thing it is experiencing revival though.

            And yes, Chinese are damn competitive when it comes to almost every aspect of life, be it job or even as petty as well, drinking. As one person told me, Chinese are so “kia su” (afraid to lose in hokkien).

            Yeah, but then again, know your roots at least, do not deny them, like how Hong Kongers wanted to tie themselves to Japanese people I heard. Damn stupid of them.

            I am a Chinese born from Indonesia :) How about you?

          • Nat

            Is it not the case that you would identify more with a fellow Indonesian Malay than a mainlander? You have Indonesian names and speak Bahasa Indonesia. The mainland Chinese would probably identify more with a fellow Chinese citizen of some other ethnicity than with you guys too. I imagine it’d be the same with Chinese diaspora elsewhere.

            I hail from the same place as happygal74, and am Hokkien so I understand “kiasu.” :)

          • Superballtothemillion

            Just because of a shared ethnic heritage they are not allowed to have a divisive character? There are other things you should consider that go beyond the shallowness of your own idea.

            Think about culture – not just shared food and language – but also beliefs, values, ethics, philosophic thought, and most importantly, the adherence to all of this. Sure, these things may have originated in China but they received actual protection and preservation outside… if you open up your history book you can see why that is. On a side note, the junction that appeared between traditional VS. “new” has become a lot more pronounced just due to how the two inter mesh with modernization and affluence that comes with it. The result in terms of the ML is the commonly observed idea of the “Ugly Chinese” and all of the intolerable behaviors they take with them. Traditional values are trying to be revived in the ML to remedy this, but this is something that’s going to take a while.

        • happygal74

          Yeah, that is the reason why the government of sg is dumb and has garnered more hates from its people

          • Nat

            If the govt of sg is “dumb”, then the people of sg are dumb too, for voting them in, and for having voted for them in consistently every single election since the beginning, and who will most likely vote them in again in the next election.

          • happygal74

            There are in fact alot of dumb Singaporean out there who are too afraid to differ from the rest..Haha

          • Nat

            Riiiiight. A lot of dumb Singaporeans out there chasing cookie-cutter K-pop idols too. (Who ah? Who ah?)

          • happygal74

            hahaha, a troller seeking attention here

            Try harder..

          • Nat

            LOL. The irony.

          • happygal74

            Opps..the lame one

          • Nat

            Oh I could insult you creatively, but you’d lack both the intellectual capacity and the language competency to appreciate it. Run along now, be dumb and happy, in your happy, dumb world of badly-spoken English, ironic pronouncements, K-pop gods, and where you’re so much more special and smarter than your fellow Singaporeans. =]

          • happygal74

            That is why the world is so let down, largely because troller like someone
            .lo lo lo..trying so hard to show off your trolling skill…Yeah…We hv one harvard prof here giving free English lessons..kamsahamida…Hahaha.. Didn’t know u understand poor English..Troller forever a troller…hahaha

          • Nat

            No, the world is “let down” because dumbasses like you think they are smart. You obviously don’t even understand the meaning of the word, “troll”, since you were the original troll with your “mainlanders are rude, nobody welcomes them” comment. But wait, your government welcomes mainlanders. Oh, the government is just stupid. But wait, you voted them in. Oh, they were just voted in by dumb people who didn’t dare to buck the trend. But wait, you’re into this cookie-cutter k-pop trend thing…

            Basically, you’re just fucking stupid. There, simple enough for you to understand?

          • happygal74

            I couldn’t help but laugh over a troller like you..go on..shame yourself yourself in your Harvard English…Yeah, this is so fun to poke at angry soul..Hahaha.. Lol..lol

          • mr.wiener

            @happygal74:disqus Enough of that thank you.
            @wnsk:disqus. You are letting her get to you, don’t

          • Nat

            (sorry, got a little carried away heh. will delete my own spam.)

      • Stefan

        In what way are they rude?

      • ma-li-huang

        You are starting to sound like one of those dumbass Arabs who hate other Arabs because of religious differences.

        You are a slope, a chinky and at the end of the day non-Chinese don’t give a shit about these petty differences.

        Hell most of them can’t even tell Asians apart so stop trying to create bullshit ass divisions because it makes you looking fucking ridiculous.

        • happygal74

          Hahaha, that is why I said mainland Chinese are rude and of low standard..even their speech were so lowly..hahaha…poor soul..seriously damaging Chinese good moral teaching..what a shame.

          • mr.wiener

            Did you have a point to make or did you just come here to trouble stir?
            We are trying [with vary degrees of success or lack thereof] to maintain a polite atmosphere here, please abide by our codes of conduct.

          • happygal74

            I made my opinion with true honesty. I don’t expect others to accept my opinion. What I didn’t expect out of it was the anger that I had gotten out by the op. As a non native speaker, I am fully aware words of such ‘ass’ and ‘fuck’ are harsh and vulgar enough not to be use in any conversation, unlike the native speakers. Therefore, who is not polite, need not me to elaborate. If this forum is strictly for native speakers, do say so, because code of conduct perhaps should include appropriate use of words as a basic respect. Fuck or Ass, in a sentence, is not what I had learned from a lousy grammar school.

          • mr.wiener

            As a rule of thumb I try to be polite when confronted with rudeness, particularly when I’m new to a place. Sorry to take you to task on this.

          • happygal74

            I will Watch my speech as well..thks for reminding me.

    • DC

      why is it hilarious?…there are proportionately more uncouth and rude mainlanders than there are HKers

      • Kai

        Because it is an inflammatory generalization. There are proportionally more black people convicted of various crimes but it should not be casually accepted for me to say black people are criminals. Casual agreement with such generalizations are simply expressions of shared prejudices. You really have to be careful with these things. Indulging in them only perpetuates tit for tat bigotry.

        • DC

          I still can’t find the hilarity of that statement…

        • jaded

          Kai, it’s only a generalisation in that it’s GENERALLY TRUE according to myself and countless others experiences. It’s not the same as official crime data and perceived prejudices.

          • Kai

            “Generalization” is not defined as what is “generally true”; it is defined as extending characteristics of the few onto the whole by way of (usually) other shared characteristics. A generalization becomes a prejudice when you apply what is arguably true about some onto others where it may not be true but simply because they share some other common characteristic.

            Sure, your experiences based on misleading vividness is different from official crime data, but my analogy was about the similar rationalizing of the prejudice inherent in inflammatory generalizations. My point remains even if I change it to “countless others experiences” that black people engage in criminal behavior. Would an inflammatory generalization about black people being criminals be excused simply because it is argued that “it’s only a generalization in that it’s GENERALLY TRUE according to myself and countless others experiences?”

            I don’t think so. The mechanics of the analogy is the point, not the details. My analogy and your rationalization share the same mechanics. Both are preconceived prejudices because you are applying conclusions you’ve derived from some people onto others.

  • happygal74

    I feel for the Hong Kongers, mainlanders are (most of them) rude and uncivilised. I don’t even like them coming to my country. Then again, harassing them proved to be inappropriate either.

  • jon9521

    I have visited Hong Kong many times and most people prefer life under the British. I am not surprised to see the UK flag waved. The HK government has got to get a grip on tourist numbers or else the HK people will take more action on their own.
    All is not well in the mainland. For example the mainland Chinese government makes it difficult to import western baby milk so the mainlanders have a choice of either risking the life/health of their child or making frequent visits to pick it up in HK. This frequently causes shortages in HK causing HK parents wrath.

    • Jahar

      I still can’t figure out why it’s difficult to import milk powder.

      • Kai

        It isn’t, it’s just more expensive due to different tax laws between the mainland and HK..

    • Y

      Yeah sure yet most of the protesters are students and were only like 1 or 2 years old when china took over so their preferance for British rule images no sense when they weren’t even around to experiance it!

  • mr.wiener

    It is a universal condition….unfortunately.

    • Insomnicide

      Is this also a universal sufferage?

      • mr.wiener

        In that we must universally suffer their behaviour…yes.

  • mr.wiener

    Haters gotta hate. The reality is HK must come to terms with it’s current reality…. I hate saying this as my sympathies lie with the protesters who have been trying so hard to fight for greater democratic rights … but the reality being what it is, they will have to make the best of it.
    This is not to say they should just roll over ,but still, this is a dick way to fight back.

    • Free Man

      So far I’ve seen a small incident in HK and big press about it in China. Puts everything again into the usual right categories for me.

      Don’t get me wrong. Ganging up on someone is very wrong, indeed. Bad as it was, it could have been even worse. I think if the same amount of students that were on the streets during the last months would gang up … it would affect quite a bit more than a single shopping mall. They could burn down the entire city center before anyone could stop them.

      Then again, I frequently see TV pictures from Germany, showing neo nazis running around on the street and doing their thing in broad daylight. There are news about foreigners being attacked by such scum. That could also lead to the opinion that all germans are that way, though Germany would look quite different if all german people were racists.

      • Wave_R1der

        Good point. Idiots and douchebags always gets the most attention.

        But then, for all attention is worth, these idiots, they would be ridiculed or even ostracized by ordinary and sane Hong Lingers.

        • Wave_R1der

          *Hong Kongers. Again, that bloody autocorrect.

        • jaded

          Don’t think so, Many of them hope that the mainlanders will get the message and behave better. But…

          • Alex Dương

            Do as I say, not as I do? Usually doesn’t work.

          • jaded

            Agree not an effective way to get a point across. However, leading by example isn’t-hasn’t been effective with these people either.

            So their frustrations have boiled over into a stand off situation. So perhaps more draconian measures are needed for something to change. Something well documented through history.

      • Irvin

        It only take one rotten apple to spoil the whole barrel.

    • Teacher in China

      In general, I agree. I was reading some stuff on the BBC about this too, and it appears that this incident was mainly focused on the parallel traders. I sympathize with them for that particular problem, and i don’t begrudge them handling things in this way.

      My wife and I just went to HK last week, and I was surprised by how badly she and other MLers were getting treated compared to myself. HK people seem to put all MLers into the same big shitty group. That definitely needs to change. I was talking to a foreigner that had been coming to HK for like 15 years or more on business, and he said that the anger used to be directed towards the laowais, but now they are treated well and the anger is focusing on MLers instead. Guess they just need someone to hate…

      • Irvin

        The idea has been in comic books for a while now, you need a bigger enemy for former enemies to come together.

        The scientific community also have a similar theory of the very first organisms on earth, apparently there were 2 competing single cell organisms when life first began. Earth’s atmosphere were mostly carbondioxide back then, however, when oxygen started to take over, the organisms had to merge with it’s competitor to survive the new environment.

        Guess something stuck with us even after a few million years: fight and fuck.

        • Alex Dương

          Do you agree with Ozymandias in Watchmen?

          • Irvin

            The idea does have it’s merit.

  • dryhten

    they probably would if they could

    • Wave_R1der

      Then why didn’t they go?

      • JayJay

        In short, this is due to the British Nationality Act 1981 which created new category of British Citizenships and the subsequent HK Act 1985 after the joint declearation. The act was passed especially for HKers, effectively ending their rights and privileges in the UK mainland. In a sense, HKers were abandoned by us Brits. This was not intentional as ultimately the problems was the land leases in Hong Kong before handover lasted only until the end of the 99 year lease (New Territory). Businesses were in trouble over this legal loophole, so to preserve the future of Hong Kong the then Thatcher government caved into Chinese demands of full sovereignty over the whole of HK.

        • Alex Dương

          Hold on. Realistically, how could the U.K. return the New Territories while keeping Hong Kong Island and Kowloon? I thought Thatcher acceded to the “demand” as soon as she saw a map of Hong Kong as a whole.

          And how does returning all of Hong Kong – the island, Kowloon, and the NT – necessitate ending HKers rights and privileges in the U.K. mainland?

          • JayJay

            A new class of citizenship is created under the 1985 act, if I remember correctly. before that, HKer may travel to mainland and settle and after then, they will need a visa to work and live.

          • Alex Dương

            To be clear, I’m not pointing fingers; what’s done is done. But I don’t see how having to return all of HK meant that the U.K. had to close its doors (or at the very least, make things harder) to HKers.

          • JayJay

            Yep, can’t see any other way out for HM govt at the time. There were Brits born in HK who could claim under ancestry rules and for ordinary HKers it’s a bit of raw deal. Rich ones all flocked to Canada.

          • Alex Dương

            Was it because there were “too many” HKers at the time (~5 million total population)? I have to get the elephant out of the room: did race play any role in the decision?

          • JayJay

            Probably… for that one has to read the Hansard (parliamentary records) during the passing of the act…

          • JayJay

            I think the story was that Thatcher government initially wanted to retain Britain’s colonial interest. The problems were that a lot of the companies have land interests in NT, but the leases were only valid up until 1997. So that created uncertainty. I think originally the HM government wanted to do a deal with the Chinese to somehow return NT and keep the existing interest going. The Chinese refused outright and asked for full sovereignty, which rightly so they could. Then the Brits caved.

          • Alex Dương

            Yes, AFAIK, Thatcher’s government originally offered a deal whereby the British would “administer” all of HK but China would have “sovereignty” over HK. One look at HK – the island, Kowloon, and NT – and it’s immediately obvious that it’s impossible to “only” return the NT:

            http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Hong_Kong_New_Territories.svg/500px-Hong_Kong_New_Territories.svg.png

            So while on paper, the U.K. had the right to hold on to the island and Kowloon in perpetuity; in practice, that was not going to happen because of how HK as a whole was developed. Still, I don’t see how this meant that the U.K. had to restrict HK emigration.

          • JayJay

            Yep, something like that.

          • JayJay

            Not sure why either. May be the thought of having millions of Chinese all moved over to UK startled HM government.

          • Alex Dương

            As I said, not pointing fingers. What’s done is done. I just didn’t want to “play the race card” without exhausting non-racial alternative explanations first.

          • JayJay

            Yep, completely get where you coming from. Who knows what the Thatcher government was thinking. Us plebs just don’t understand the ruling class.

          • steviewah

            If I recall correctly, this was only one many possible deals Thatcher floated to the Deng Xiaoping. Regardless of the treaties China ceded in the past, they never ever had the intention of following through with them because of the unequal treaties. China was always resolute about taking back HK and all its territories from UK from day one. Deng gave Thatcher an ultimatum to either cooperate in handing over HK or they would do it by force. Deng and Thatcher knew militarily the UK could not do anything about it. I think Deng or someone in his envoy said they could have like 100,000 troops in HK in a few hours if they really wanted to reclaim HK.

          • Alex Dương

            I think Deng or someone in his envoy said they could have like 100,000 troops in HK in a few hours if they really wanted to reclaim HK.

            Yes, Deng said that; Thatcher retorted that it would show everyone how the Chinese “really” were.

            I disagree that the Chinese never had any intention of respecting the treaties. The CCP took power over mainland China in 1949, but the Hong Kong issue was not raised until the late 1970s, after Mao had died. They actually had plans to invade Hong Kong in 1967, but Zhou suggested against them.

            In any case, as I mentioned, the treaties did not matter practically speaking because it was not feasible to only return the New Territories and keep HK Island and Kowloon. The British had to return all three. The only issue was how the new HK would be administered.

          • steviewah

            Ah yes, thanks for reminding me. It’s been a while since I’ve read up on the history of HK.
            I think China only respected the treaties because they weren’t in a position to demand it back yet. Politically, the CCP were still a total mess. The cultural revolution was a total failure and the purge after Mao’s death. Yet, HK had always been a contentious issue with the party. I’m not surprised that they had plans to invade 1967, they had acquired nuclear weapons in ’64 and finished testing the hydrogen bomb in ’67, plus the HK riots during that period because of poor British administration would have been an ideal time to invade and have consensus support.

  • mr.wiener

    Ouch! You will have Chucky down on us at this rate.

    • Wave_R1der

      Also, mentioning how Koreans are similar to Chinese seems to be a trigger to the Koreans.. what’s up with that?

      • Insomnicide

        Stepped on their nerve

  • JayJay

    For a clearer understanding for the colonial masters.

    Mainland Chinese = Eastern European Migrants (although the distinction here is that the Mainland Chinese are here to shop and promote HK economy)

    The HK haters = UKIP/BNP

    • Wave_R1der

      Ordinary Hong Lingers are fine people. It’s the stupid who have the loudest, attention grabbing voices.

      • Wave_r1der

        *Hong Kongers. Bloody autocorrect.

        • JayJay

          hahaha

      • Irvin

        I hate to say this, but whining does work. There was a game call mass effect 3 a while back, people were unhappy with the ending so they went to the forum to whine, within a few months, the developers change the ending. The same can be apply on a larger scale in a different situation I guess.

        • Wave_R1der

          Cave in over whining, and in the future, people will always play the victim to get what they wanted. This is just sad and stupid.

          I don’t think Bioware (devs of Mass Effect 3) caved in to the demands of the whiners, probably they were like “eh, that is a big mistake, let us fix it” after seeing the reaction, not “we better fix it or we will lose fans!”.

          • Irvin

            If you followed what actually happens then you’ll know it’s because of the whining. They even went as far as saying they wouldn’t change anything due to “artistic integrity”, they never saw their product as a mistake.

            In the end, whining wins, and that’s a fact.

    • Alex Dương

      I’m lucky I didn’t grow up with a colonial mentality. IMO, if you want to voice your disdain of the current situation (i.e. one country, two systems; CCP; etc.), don’t wave the old British Hong Kong flag. Create a new flag that represents Hong Kong.

    • jaded

      totally false cross reference. The HK’rs are not racist. They hate the Mainlanders for their behaviour, for what THEY DO-the effect they are having on their environment, not what THEY ARE-racism towards a different ethnic group.

      • Alex Dương

        I think it’s a bit more complicated. They aren’t just waving signs imploring them to “behave better.” Some of them are waving signs telling them to go back to China.

        • jaded

          yes BECAUSE of their behaviour. They are sick of them and want rid of them. Not due to class bias or zealotry.

          • Alex Dương

            I do not absolve bad behavior when it occurs. But I think there is an element of classism / class bias at play here. It is only recently that a meaningful number of mainlanders can afford to travel and shop in Hong Kong. Before, too many were too poor to do that. It is normal to chafe when someone “below” you “catches” up, but that still doesn’t make it defensible / justifiable.

          • jaded

            It is normal to chafe when someone below you catches up? I disagree with that. Some people may think on those lines but certainly not everyone. I still contend it is the ML’rs conduct they are reacting against.

    • Robz Sarmy

      No I live in the UK its more like:

      Mainlanders = Muslims in the Uk

      Filipino,indonesian,thai = Eastern europeans (except south east asians dont cause trouble)

  • JayJay

    Chowing down a piece of dog meat while you typing this? Talking about being civilised.

    • Gourou

      Don’t Chinese eat dog meat too?

      • JayJay

        I didn’t meant to start a conversation about eating dog meat. my reply to shinhwa was that while he despises Chinese for their behaviours, yet millions in west despise Korea for eating dogs. Of course not every Chinese behave in such a manner, nor does every Korean person eat dog meat. Just highlighting the danger of stereotyping here.

    • Stefan

      Are dogs more worth than a cow or pig?

      • Wave_R1der

        The paradox of animal rights activists basically.
        Dogs = too cute to be eaten.
        Cow/Pig = too tasty as a pet.
        Go figure.

        • Zappa Frank

          you are basically right, but there is the difference that while for thousands years the cow and the pig have been rise to be eaten the dog has been rise to be useful and company. Now we cannot ignore that thousands years (10k-8k seems) have significance in the perception we have of animals.

          • Wave_R1der

            Basically, you are right. Even the thought of eating dogs just strikes me funny, though again, I would try if I had the chance.

            But then again, it’s all about cultures that gives us different perception of dogs.

            I would write a wall of text about how Chinese see dogs, but it’s basically complicated.

          • Zappa Frank

            yeah, I wanted to try as well, but I found only hot pot dog meat…. I gave up because I really don’t like that much the Sichuan hot pot

          • Wave_R1der

            Why so? Too spicy for your taste?

          • Zappa Frank

            is the 花椒 that I can’t stand. the lajiao is ok…spicy but I can deal with it.

          • Jahar

            Also, when it comes to mammals, we generally stay away from eating carnivores. That might just be because they put up too much of a fight though.

          • Xman2014

            Chinese chewing out a Korean for dog meat. If ain’t the pot calling the kettle black. But funnily I’m seeing more of this where Chinese people point fingers at Koreans for dog meat.

            In truth, Chinese eat more dogs than Koreans do. At least in Korea only the few old people (mostly old men) who eat them. The practice is dying out gradually. However in China:

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/stories/annual-dog-meat-festival-continues-to-divide-chinese-public.html

        • Jahar

          That’s not a paradox.

      • JayJay

        didn’t meant to start a conversation about eating dog meat. my reply to shinhwa was that while he despises Chinese for their behaviours, yet millions in west despise Korea for eating dogs. Of course not every Chinese behave in such a manner, nor does every Korean person eat dog meat. Just highlighting the danger of stereotyping here.

      • anon

        Dogs have been selectively bred for thousands of years to instinctively see humans as companions and desire to either work for them or just love them. It’s extremely cruel to kill and eat something that sees you as family.

        • Vance

          I could not have stated it better.

  • Wave_R1der

    Here the pictures shows the irony otherwise. And that generalization is wrong.

  • blackgold

    I don’t know to much about this Hong Kong/China stuff, so someone please tell me why Hong Kongers got so much beef with the mainlanders??? Anybody??

    • Alex Dương

      It’s a combination of several issues. Many HKers feel that aspects of the “two systems” part of “one country, two systems” are being subverted at best or outright disrespected at worst. They also feel that mainlanders aren’t respecting them, the culture, or the norms. These are all justified.

      However, classism is at play here too. At the time of the Handover, HK, despite being a small city in the grand scheme of things, constituted sixteen percent of Chinese GDP. That’s how developed it was and how poor the rest of China was. These days, HK is 3 percent of Chinese GDP. It still punches above its weight, but not as much as it used to. While frictions are to be expected when someone previously “below” you “catches up,” this component of the anger is a lot less justified.

      • chucky3176

        “They also feel that mainlanders aren’t respecting them, the culture, or the norms.”

        Yeap, I can really sympathize with Hong Kong people with this one. Mainland Chinese only respect China’s history and China’s culture. Everyone else in Asia are just colony of China who don’t need to be respected as separate individual cultures. Seen it too many times with my own eyes.

        • jaded

          many of them don’t respect the environment they’re in, home or abroad. It’s quite shocking to see at times. They just don’t give a f.

  • Amused

    It’s interesting how quickly and easily these people turn on each other. Instead of aspiring to reach the levels of freedom HK is striving for, the ML people want to see them brought down to their level. And strangely this attitude combined with their general lack of manners and the inconveniences they cause has stirred the HK citizens to hatred against them.

    But who wins when the people fight themselves?

    • hang

      I think it was just the context, and the abuse directed towards mainlanders. Protests directed at CCP leadership is one thing, but physical and verbal abuse directed in person to mainland tourists is another.

      By directing this against Chinese tourists, they’re not winning any friends on the mainland.

    • 白色纯棉小裤裤

      this attitude combined with their general lack of manners

      Who are the one that lack manners now?

      the inconveniences they cause has stirred the HK citizens to hatred against them

      I suppose you would hate someone who raped you or stole your money, but hate someone who caused inconvenience to you and physically abuse them and insult them? That doesn’t seem justified.

      • jaded

        Abuse directed at people is of course morally reprehensible. however they are venting at the absolutely vile behaviour displayed by many mainlanders. Its simple cause and effect: If the mainlanders behaved better, then the HKr’s would leave them be.

        • 白色纯棉小裤裤

          How is it justified for them to vent at other people’s behaviors while themselves behave just as bad or even worse.

          • jaded

            Yes they could have done it more peacefully. Frustration and mob mentality was obviously at fever pitch. But I agree with them taking SOME kind of action just not as strident. However if a peaceful stance wasn’t effective then yes some kind of draconian measures are necessary. Some people only learn the hard way.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            However if a peaceful stance wasn’t effective then yes some kind of draconian measures are necessary.

            Such action isn’t helping HK in anyway.
            Actually I hope such incident can happen more and more in HK, so some people can learn the hard way to not throw their money at a place that does not welcome them. Its always better to spend their money at home to create more jobs.

          • jaded

            On the other side of the coin, there is also that outcome. Which, as you
            say, will economically hurt HK. It seems HK is ok with the financial
            loss. Maybe that’s the trade off.

          • jaded

            On the other side of the coin, there is also that outcome. Which, as you say, will economically hurt HK. It seems HK is ok with the financial
            loss. Maybe that’s the trade off.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            . It seems HK is ok with the financial loss.

            Oh really? How did you figure that out?

          • jaded

            I meant the people are ok with it.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Who are “the people”?

          • jaded

            the people of HK of course. The economy of HK isn’t dependent on mainland shoppers, never was. Its an international financial market and free trade powerhouse. They can do without it.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            So is it you or the few people harassing the tourists the one who can represent the people of HK?

    • Kai

      That’s not accurate. No mainlander really wants HK to be brought down to mainland levels. They only facetiously suggest such things to spite the HKers they see as looking down on them and taking what they have for granted.

      • Amused

        Dunno dude, I live on the ML and every friend or acquaintance who is remotely interested in the subject seems rather gleeful about the protesters getting dispersed. And generally they throw in a few extra comments while expressing this opinion that would let a reasonable individual believe they might be just a bit resentful of HK’s “special” status.

        • Kai

          They “resent” it in the context of how they feel these HKers look down on them. If you didn’t have that context, would the resentment still be there? That’s a consideration we have to keep in mind. Just like a lot of people resent mainlanders for reasons, mainlanders resent HKers for reasons too.

          If we want others to consider our reasons (look at many of the mainlander bashing cS comments in this thread), we should be open to considering theirs instead of assuming the worst about them.

          • jaded

            Well what I don’t get is that they don’t understand WHY people from other nations look down on them. Many seem to blame it on an inherent snobbery, instead of looking in the mirror as someone posted a while back. But I suppose they would actually have to CARE for that to happen.

          • Kai

            Plenty of them do care and do understand why people from other nations look down on them. cS has a huge repository of translated Chinese netizen comments testifying to that.

            Many do indeed blame it on inherent snobbery because they consider it to be generally true according to their and countless others experiences.

            If it isn’t obvious with my quoting and link, I’m holding a mirror up to you here. I hope you can see how this rationalization for a contemptuous judgment and generalization of others is a problem, whether it is wielded by the Chinese or by you.

            The vast majority of the hate between HKers and mainlanders would disappear if those involved simply exercised more precision with their complaints and criticisms, if they didn’t indulge in inflammatory generalizations about each other.

  • Karze

    In Tibet Chinese migrant workers and tourist abuse and oppress Tibetans yet Tibetans can’t do anything because PLA and PSB are always with guns pointed at Tibetans.

    • Wave_R1der

      That doesn’t justify anything about this whole drama I am afraid. That whole China blaming on Tibet is getting old, don’t you think?

      • 宋易

        If oppressive action persists indefinitely, when does it become “old” to criticize it?

  • bujiebuke

    So tourist come to your country to buy your goods and pay your sales tax and you strong arm them and tell them to gtfo? I understand there are a handful of rude misbehaving tourists but physically assaulting innocent people will just loose people who sympathized with your cause. Which group is the uncouth barbarian now?

    Oh, yeah let’s wave the flag of our former colonial masters, just in case anyone isn’t clear if we’re after self government or not.

    • Wave_R1der

      Despite boasting best living quality and intelligence in the world, they are, in the end, nothing but dumbasses.

      • WFH

        silly protesters = all of HK
        same as
        mainlanders taking a dump in public = all of China

        • Wave_R1der

          Eh, sorry for the generalization. You could find idiots everywhere around the world after all.

          • jaded

            not as many as in mainland China. See them on a regular basis.

      • bujiebuke

        I wouldn’t characterize them as such. But there is a population of people from Hong Kong who have exclusionary attitudes towards people they deem “inferior”. I’ve wondered if this is like “Stockholm” syndrome where they’ve emulated the snobbery and elitism of their former colonial masters.

        • Wave_R1der

          yeah, sorry for my generalization. From what I see, it seems that the trend of China bashing goes to the younger people the most. Maybe they think agreeing or liking China is either being “traditional” or a target to be ridiculed as commie or something, I dunno.

          But seriously, this shit has to stop. I’m fine if they have to voice out their grieveances, but attacking a group isn’t the way to voice out your opinion, but only alienating yourself. Even their “white masters” wouldn’t agree with their methods.

          • bujiebuke

            I live in the US and have witnessed on several occasions former Hong Kong residents going on rants about Chinese mainland stereotypes. You read that right, they bring their bullshit prejudices and misguided elitist attitudes here too as if there aren’t enough problems in this country. They don’t seem to have any problems moving into someone else’s neighborhood, but when someone else does it, look the fuck out.

        • jaded

          more psycho babble-psuedo intellectual drivel from you.

          • bujiebuke

            Is it, or is it due to your poor comprehension?

    • Guest

      I’m not going to thank a guy for throwing money at me after he copped a feel when I didn’t chose to offer him anything in the first place. Residents have a right to refuse to tourist – and if tourist don’t like it, they can and should take their money and presence elsewhere.

      • bujiebuke

        Your analogy to sexual assault is completely misguided and non sequitur. These are legitimate business transactions as opposed to the pseudo-rape bullshit that your comparing to. Sure they have a right to complain about rude behaviors, but when they resort to violence and strong arm tactics, they loose their moral high ground. Just look at the way that coward in the face mask is belittling the women, that’s the face of hate.

  • Nat

    Hong Kong is getting more irrelevant by the day.

    • Wave_R1der

      Or stupid.

      • WFH

        ahh..always heartwarming to see mainland commie love in action….

        • Wave_R1der

          Surprise, I am from Indonesia :)

          • DC

            oh..now I get the angst towards ALL HKers.. sorry about the maid torture and all…I’m sure each one of them had a part in it.

          • Jahar

            It’s still mainland commie love.

        • Irvin

          Or a stupidity hate, depends how you look at it.

  • BEEG

    This is so true. Too many mainland Chinese visiting Korea and bringing their horrible behavior with them. They spit, dump garbage, cut in lines, and shove people. They scream in their funny sounding language as loudly as possible in public. Even if they’re right next to the person they’re talking to. My friends and family members who had no problems with Chinese people a few years ago now absolutely detest them. Who can blame them?

    In my opinion, the tourist revenue they generate just isn’t worth the hassle of dealing with these people. Idiotic Chinese nationalists will somehow find a way to blame anyone but themselves. They refuse to look in the mirror and figure out why mainlanders are despised in foreign countries.

    • Alex Dương

      funny sounding language

      Really?

    • Wave_R1der

      “They refuse to look in the mirror..”

      Maybe you should take a good long look in the mirror dear Korean..

      • BEEG

        This is exactly what I said earlier about Chinese nationalists. Its somehow Koreas fault that Chinese tourists behave in an uncivilized manner when visiting a foreign country.

        “Everyone elses fault but mine”. Typical little emperor mentality going on.

        • Alex Dương

          It is not Korea’s fault that some Chinese tourists misbehave. It is the tourists’ fault. But it is your fault when you go beyond criticizing their behavior to sounding like an angry old fart when you talk about, ahem, their “funny sounding language.”

          • Jahar

            I saw a video made to show how English sounds to non-English speakers. It was really funny sounding. Kinda reminded me of Dutch.

          • Alex Dương

            This one? If so, I thought they did a great job (AFAIK as a non-linguist) in giving you the feeling that you can pick up some of the words, but the rest is unintelligible.

          • Jahar

            Yeah i thought it was great.

        • Wave_R1der

          Please do not blame all of the ills from isolated incidents to an entire group of people. Nationalists are nothing but crazy people. It doesn’t matter it’s Chinese or Koreans, nationalists only give racist and extremist views on an ethnic group.

          Just leave those nationalists be. No use getting worked up on them.

          • jaded

            They’re not isolated incidents. They are daily incidents.

        • Kai

          Chinese nationalists not looking in the mirror and you not looking in the mirror can both be true. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

          In general, Chinese people do not blame other countries for their countrymen’s uncouth behavior when visiting those other countries. Time and time again, even shown on cS, Chinese people are roundly embarrassed and self-critical of this phenomenon. It is only when the people of that country start making unfair generalizations and start crossing over into bigotry (aka uncivilized behavior) that ammo is given to Chinese people to make arguably valid counteraccusations.

          The blame owed one does not absolve another of being blamed for their own uncivilized behavior.

      • Jahar

        And instead of acknowledging the point, the classic “you do it!”

    • 白色纯棉小裤裤

      What you have written just showed how uncivilized and horrible you are.

      • PeterScriabin

        How so, white panties? He trenchantly stated his opinion and some (albeit subjective) evidence for it. How does that make him u&h? My advice would be not to confuse political correctness with denial of facts, at least as observed by a l-o-t-t-a people, including mainlanders.

        • Wave_R1der

          His “opinion” consisted of a view sided close to generalization.

          • PeterScriabin

            “His “opinion”…close to generalization.” – of course, but this is an area where generalization seems (to me) supremely practically/morally permissible, hence advisable!

            He personally doesn’t enjoy the typical behavior (as observed by him) of a certain group. He is not saying all the people always behave in this disliked way (or else he does not need to, to sustain a coherent position), just that IN GENERAL it is that way, therefore he would prefer AVOIDANCE of that group if possible.

            To me, this kind of an expression of probabilistic preference is not just widespread/normal among humans, but totally rational and even unavoidable. We can split hairs about the tone of voice and the choice of phrase, but to cavil against generalization seens to me absurd! Better is to dispute the facts, if you want to fight back. We all judge (have opinions about) the facts we (think we) observe.

            P.S. This post is also meant to reply to kai – eg. to characterize two foreigners, speaking to each other, in my country, as “scream[ing]…in their funny-sounding language” is not “making fun”. It’s not at all funny when people have not the manners to abide by the customs of the foreign land they enter as guests. The original poster was saying that such behavior is common. It seems to me NOT TO THE POINT to criticize him for being hateful, etc.. he is ASSERTING A FACT. By all means dispute the fact, but not the preference to avoid such rude behavior. [And good luck with disputing the fact.]

          • Alex Dương

            to characterize two foreigners, speaking to each other, in my country, as “scream[ing]…in their funny-sounding language” is not “making fun”.

            You’re right. It’s just ignorance.

          • PeterScriabin

            Ignorance of what? Care to explain your smarmy mod comment?

          • Alex Dương

            Languages only sound “funny” when you don’t understand them. Hence, ignorance. I can’t believe I had to actually explain that.

          • PeterScriabin

            Thanks for your explanation. At least I know where the ignorance lies now.

          • Alex Dương

            You’re welcome. It’s good that you’re acknowledging your ignorance; that’s the first step towards solving the problem.

          • PeterScriabin

            My, but you mods are slippery beasts! It all started when you accused BEEG of ignorance (for reasons as yet totally unexplained, of course). And now, I am the ignorant one, for disturbing the rock you were lying under.

            Well, can’t be too hard on you just because English is not your first language. It may help you to look up “funny” in the dictionary, then meditate a little about whether BEEG likely laughs whenever he hears a language he does not understand. Hmm, I wonder what he could have meant.

            Durong, don’t do wrong. That’s how funny ignorance can be.

          • Alex Dương

            Actually, English is my first language, and it really blows my mind that you can’t connect the dots here.

            BEEG’s comment that Mandarin is a “funny sounding language” is incredibly ignorant for the obvious reason that ANY language will sound “funny” when you DO NOT UNDERSTAND it. Sheesh.

            Do you really not get that? If you know the language, it’s not going to “sound funny” because you’re going to know what people are actually saying in that language!

          • PeterScriabin

            Ah, I see, you think a foreign language is “funny-sounding” whenever one does not understand it. Any person, any foreign language. In that case, I agree with you, BEEG is merely saying he is ignorant of the Chinese language the tourists were screaming at each other. When he says “funny-sounding”, he just means “I could not understand it.” Yes, even the birds sound funny to him.

            So why did you even comment then? The more surprised you are that you need to give me this (fantastic, scooped-up-on-the-spur-of-the-moment) explanation, the less justification you have for originally commenting.

            Come on, man, you’re a big fake. Wriggle out from that rock.

          • Alex Dương

            Why did I comment? To point out how ignorant it is to say that a language sounds “funny” just because you don’t understand it. I shouldn’t have to because it should be obvious, but clearly it is not obvious for you.

          • PeterScriabin

            But here again, you evidently mean something quite
            different by “ignorant”. Now, he is not ignorant because he does not understand a foreign language (your first shimmy), but because he labels it “funny” merely since he does not understand it. [To clarify: BEEG is trying to insult the foreign tourists, simply because they talk “funny”.]

            Well, OK, we’ve come down to competing hypotheses about BEEG. I’m betting he does not insult foreign tourists (even quietly in his own thoughts, let alone in an internet forum) merely since he does not understand
            what they are saying
            . I’m betting there was another reason, and that that reason is why we’re having this entire thread (I mean the big shot, not just you and me here).

            By the way, and off-topic, I also agree that it’s horrible
            to protest against innocent foreign strangers, merely because they seem to represent a detested group at that moment. Perhaps it would be better if they had a more direct way to speak to Xi and his government.

          • Alex Dương

            But here again, you evidently mean something quite
            different by “ignorant”. Now, he is not ignorant because he does not understand a foreign language (your first shimmy), but because he labels it “funny” merely since he does not understand it. [To clarify: BEEG is trying to insult the foreign tourists, simply because they talk “funny”.]

            There’s no contradiction here. Both are at play: BEEG doesn’t understand Mandarin, hence he is ignorant of Mandarin; and he’s also ignorant because he doesn’t understand that in general, any language you don’t understand is going to sound “funny.”

            I’m betting there was another reason, and
            that that reason is why we’re having this entire thread

            Indeed. That is why I replied to BEEG by saying that it was not Korea’s fault that Chinese tourists misbehaved. Of course it is the fault of the tourists. And it is also his fault for being ignorant and not understanding something as obvious as any language you don’t understand is going to sound “funny.”

          • Kai

            Use @Kai to ping me when addressing me in a comment that isn’t a direct reply to me so I get a notification from Disqus that I was addressed. Otherwise, I may not see your comment.

            Characterizing a language as “funny-sounding” is asserting a subjective opinion (even criticism or contempt), not a “fact”.

            I don’t think anyone objected to BEEG’s complaint about anyone screaming in public.

            One can express a preference against rude behavior in a hateful way. BEEG did just that.

        • Kai

          Making fun of people’s languages and making apologies for “detesting” an entire nationality of people based on the misleading vividness of experiences involving the few can indeed be considered “uncivilized and horrible”.

          Popularity of sentiment is just a logical fallacy that does not preclude one from being guilty of arguments or rationalizations that may be characterized as “uncivilized and horrible”.

    • Teacher in China

      People used to refer to the “Ugly Americans” as the worst people to encounter while travelling. I think the world will have to get used to the “Ugly Chinese” now, at least for the current generation. I think younger people are learning more about international customs and etiquette, so things will change in the future for sure.

      • Wave_R1der

        While it doesn’t sound pretty, at least there is hope. Education, understanding and tolerance is the key to destroy racism and stereotypes.

    • Jahar

      This reminds me of how they are always telling people and other countries even that they need to do some “self-reflecting.” This from a place where I’m still pretty sure they think they are the center of the universe.

    • takasar1

      go to bed koreaboo.

  • Poodle Tooth

    Koreans have more restrained excretory customs.

    • Wave_R1der

      They sure honor poop so much

  • Alex Dương

    IMO, waving the old flag makes it look like they want to go back to the old days where HK was a colony, not independent. If they want independence, create and wave a new flag.

    • RocKStaR

      I would think that waving the British Colonial flag is more about causing controversy and conversation then an actually wanting to return to colonial rule. It would be used as the most easily recognizable anti-CCP flag, a new flag wouldn’t be recognizable and the current Hong Kong flag would be seen to support the status quo.

      • Alex Dương

        I agree that the current HK flag would be seen as pro-status quo. I agree that a new flag wouldn’t be immediately recognizable, but it doesn’t take long for an accepted symbol to emerge (e.g. umbrella, yellow ribbon, etc.).

        • Irvin

          Or simply, an X over the mainland flag, can’t get more anti mainland than that.

          • Alex Dương

            That, upside down mainland flag (bit of an Americanism, I guess), ROC flag, so many existing options besides a symbol of colonialism.

          • Irvin

            Maybe loki was right, we want to be rule and we want freedom from freedom.

          • Kai

            LoL, maybe a ROC flag? Or an Imperial Japanese flag?

      • Jahar

        It could be understood that they feel they were treated better by their “colonial masters” than their “family.”

      • Kai

        Sure, that’s entirely plausible, but they owe it to themselves to anticipate how others might interpret their use of symbols. What you intend is not always what others interpret. It’s the nature of PR.

  • It’s almost the Spring Festivals why can’t motherfuckers get along

    • Jahar

      Cuz spring “festival” sucks. “Like Christmas” my ass.

      • Y

        Why does it suck? Christmas sucks worse

  • The entirety of HK water supply comes from the mainland. Maybe they should start getting aggressive whenever HK drinks water now

    • Wave_R1der

      Nah, the mainlanders are too busy with other issues on their country compared to the spoiled brats of Hong Kong. If they started protesting and fighting back, it will do nothing but justified the harrassment and insult of mainland tourists.

  • steviewah

    What HKers should be doing is fighting for the right for both themselves and mainlanders. They are in a unique position to do so, but instead they just go about harassing mainland shoppers judging and ridiculing them before they even commit a crime. Denigrating them as have poor manners or uncivilized is a sad excuse to demonize people.

    • Jahar

      If the mainlanders aren’t going to do it, why would HK?

  • DC

    regardless of who’s right or wrong…Chinese accented Cantonese and Cantonese accented Chinese are equally grating on the ears…

    • Y

      Cantonese is chinese…. Unless u mean manderin accented Cantonese and vice versa

  • persianOUTKAST
  • WHITE GUY

    Hong Kongers bully their own people, but they worship white people.

    • Wave_R1der

      Either it is poor education history, or the western brands such as Louis Vuitton that made them think the Whites are hot shit.

      • Zappa Frank

        poor education in history? or maybe better then mainlanders… at least hongkongers really know what the communist party is, who killed Chinese people, what happened in Tiananmen and so on…

        • Wave_R1der

          Don;t think that mainlanders don’t know the history too. They just can’t or simply do not want to talk about it.
          Just ignore the nationalistic ones, they presented a skewered view of history. Ask a decent one and maybe you could get a better perspective.

          • Zappa Frank

            actually that part of history is not on their books.. so how can they know it? in internet? is censored. I’m sure there are some that know it, but do you really think it goes for most of Chinese people?

          • Y

            How do they know? From their relatives overseas of course and word of mouth

    • Irvin

      A few articles back, we see the school girl bullies, this is the adult version.

  • Raymond

    The protesters are no better than the “lesser” mainlanders if they stoop to barbaric behaviors. I am hoping that this is just the work of a small group and not a reflection of most Hong Kongers. On a somewhat unrelated note, the treatment of migrant domestic workers by Hong Kongers is appalling and needs to be changed. It’s almost a parallel to the xenophobic anti-foreigner “Japan for Japanese” mentality in Japan.

    • Wave_R1der

      So much for the superiority feeling of those anti mainlanders. They failed to see their own reflection in the mirror. It’s that priviledge of being raised by the whites or something.

  • KamikaziPilot

    Sure HKers can protest mainlanders behavior but doing it like this puts them in just as bad a light as those they are protesting against. Unless one of the mainlanders just took a dump in the middle of the shopping center (possible) I see no need to harass them on an individual basis, actually I think it’s pretty cowardly. I guess some people will do just about anything they can to make themselves feel superior to others. Sad really, maybe they don’t have anything better to do on this day. Also I think those surgical masks are just ridiculous.

    • Teacher in China

      There have been concerns about the flu in HK recently. Even on the subway, there were automated messages and signs telling people to use face masks if they have a cold. There is a chance that some of the people there were using them for that reason. I saw a ton of people wearing them when I was there last week.

      • KamikaziPilot

        But even if there isn’t concern about the flu, don’t a lot of people use those masks anyways, I know in Japan they do, and some Japanese tourists too? I know cities are generally more densely populated than North American cities and the masks supposedly slow the spread of germs but still . . . I just thinks it’s a case of monkey see monkey do (not saying anyone is a monkey) more than any hard evidence it makes you safer from catching something. I don’t know maybe it’s just me but I just shake my head when I see that.

        • Teacher in China

          Maybe it doesn’t make you safer from catching something, but it should stop you spreading germs from coughing and sneezing if you are sick yourself.

  • chucky3176

    I guess the Hong Kong people are nostalgic for the British law and order that existed before the Chinese mainlanders flooded the city state. The problem with China is that, they just have too many people which tend to drown out their neighbouring countries and places. I can’t think of any place in the world where there are no Chinese, maybe except for the North Pole. Over 20 million tourists visit Hong Kong every year. Hong Kong people should remember that most of them are mainland Chinese who spend on their economy. Hong Kong’ers are not thinking straight here. If the visiting mainlander’s are sweeping clean the Hong Kong stores, of daily necessity consumer goods and raising prices, then Hong Kong’ers should try expanding the shopping services for the Mainlanders, that can do drop shipments of goods using web e-commerce. The Mainlanders then wouldn’t have to flood into Hong Kong to get what they need, and Hong Kong people can extract cash from Mainlanders without having to host them. Why do Mainland Chinese insist on visiting a place where they are not wanted anyway?

    • Wave_R1der

      “Why do Mainland Chinese insist on visiting a place where they are not wanted anyway?”

      Because it’s up to them to decide, not the country?

      • Jahar

        Yeah, but why go to a place where you are not wanted?

        • Kai

          Because only some people don’t want you, and what those people think may not be so important that it’ll stop you from whatever other goals you have in going?

          Same for foreigners going to China. Many people say the Chinese don’t want foreigners, yet foreigners still go.

          • Wave_R1der

            “Same for foreigners going to China. Many people say the Chinese don’t want foreigners, yet foreigners still go.”

            I think that is Japan you are referring to..

          • Kai

            It’s true for both, and many other places.

        • jaded

          because they don’t care

    • Jahar

      The mainland government could make this problem go away easily, by easing their restrictions on imports, lessening the duty, etc… but they don’t want more foreign stuff here. They want less foreign stuff.

    • linette lee

      yes, Hong Kong yahoo we talked about using e-service to sell goods to the Mainlanders like milk powder and other daily necessity goods to avoid tenth of millions flooding into our city that can barely hold the 7 millions local HKers, cleaning us out of our daily necessity goods on our shelves. However, they seems to love touring Hong Kong for all our attraction sites, local foods, and I guess our safe orderly environment. They don’t like their own China restaurants and their own goods thinking it’s not safe cause the lack of China gov’t inspection. They love going to HK cause it’s filled with attraction sites and good foods. They bring their China behavior such as cutting lines, littering, peeing shitting every where except inside the bathroom, smoking in non smoking zones, using public transportation subways and buses to transport their huge boxes and bags(cargos) blocking local HK people to get to work.
      For those who comment about HKers attitude toward Mainlanders, you need to experience for yourself before you open your mouth. Think what it’s like being a local living in your own country to endure having difficulty just to normal daily necessities. Using public transportation just to get to work daily, have your streets and shopping mall filled with smelly shit and pees, tourists screaming cut in front of you on line to buy your daily breakfast, can’t use the Emergency room when you are really sick cause the tourist use it to give birth crowding the hospital…

      I think most Hong Kong people are very tolerance given the amount of daily stress the Mainlanders put them in. If it is the other way around HK people using their China resources for free or cut in line in front of them to get goods and hospital care or public services, Mainlanders will take a knife and stab the HKers. Mainlanders don’t play, they have no problem using a car to hit you or use a knife to stab you cause you try to cut in front them to get public service.

      • linette lee

        And The China internet, they will always delete all videos and photos of Mainlanders behaviors in Hong Kong. They will only post the part Hong Kong people hitting or yelling at the Mainlanders. They delete all videos and photos how the mainlanders cause trouble in Hong Kong.
        Even if it gets post on their China website, the mainlanders will say nothing is wrong with shitting on the streets when there are bathroom everywhere or how about use a diaper. So the difference in common practice and culture, and how the China gov’t use the social media to propagate, is a major problem between HK and China.

      • linette lee

        http://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980w/public/2015/02/27/_hkg02_31010143.jpg?itok=2Ekr7SyH

        China tourists use the Hong Kong public transportation like subways and buses to transport their cargos, instead of using their own cargo trucks. The Hong Kong people suffer every day just commuting to and from work. Although there are HK signs everywhere it is illegal to transport cargos and huge bags, they continue to ignore.

        • linette lee

          https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2014/04/22/24a.jpg

          China tourists turned beautiful Hong Kong city, into streets filled with feces. Everywhere from the Hong Kong streets to Hong Kong Disney land. In Hong Kong there are bathrooms everywhere like in the restaurants or shopping malls everywhere. But they refused to use HK bathrooms, and insisted on doing it outside the bathrooms. Then they lied and said they didn’t do anything wrong….all the time.

          • linette lee

            http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_WaETk-WWJw/maxresdefault.jpg

            China tourists often refuse to get in line like everybody else. They scream and curse and try to use money to cut in front of the line. Disrupting peace and order in Hong Kong.

          • linette lee

            China tourists shitting and peeing anywhere except in the bathroom in Hong Kong. It is very common to see no public shitting and peeing signs in Hong Kong, but don’t stop them. Shitting and peeing on the streets, airplanes, inside shopping malls, Hong Kong Disney Land, subways, everywhere except inside Hong Kong bathrooms which can be found everywhere.

          • linette lee

            http://www.ejinsight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/957462_ddc38b960c04a323631054f30016cfae-692×360.jpg

            China tourists don’t believe in trash cans. They litter everywhere in Hong Kong even though there are trash cans near by. The no smoking signs don’t mean anything to them. They smoke even inside the shopping mall and crowed restaurants commonly. Hong Kong people are dying from their cigarette smoke.

          • linette lee

            http://asiancorrespondent.com/81403/no-private-hospital-entry-for-pregnant-mainland-women-in-2013/

            China people use Hong Kong Hospital emergency room to give birth. Jamming up the ER causing the local people who really have emergency unable to use the HK emergency room. They would travel to HK months in advance then when it’s time to delivery the baby, crash the HK ER, then obtain a HK birth certificate for their baby. Neither parents work, live, or pay tax to HK government but they use the HK emergency room for free. The ones with money jammed up the HK private hospitals and makes it extremely hard for HK women to book room to give birth.

          • mwal

            “China tourists turned beautiful Hong Kong city, into streets filled with feces”

            After they way they were treated in HK, they turned to Tokyo and turned the streets to gold.

      • Vance

        It seems that you are not very impressed by your neighbors to the north. lol! I wonder why they are like that? I am not reading all over the Net that the Chinese people who live in other parts of the world do these things. It seems they behave well in Hong Kong, Macua, Taiwan, and I’ve never heard any complaints here about our own significant Chinese population here in America. That habit of squatting in public is disgusting! Those pics are small, but in the one with 4 images on it, it looks like there is a pretty adult woman squatting right in the middle of the crowd. I would think that they would have more dignity than to let everyone see them taking a poop. It must not be cultural because you say Hong Kong Chinese don’t do these things. Chinese elsewhere do not seem to do this. Amazing!

    • Vance

      Maybe not the North Pole, but there are, in fact, Chinese near the South Pole. There are several Chinese research stations in Antarctica. But now I’m wondering if the bathrooms there are holes dug into the snow? You know, in Antarctica, it is so cold that that poop would be perfectly preserved for the 10,000 years it took for that ice to flow to the coast where that poop would eventually melt out into the ocean, as fresh as the day it was delivered!

  • Vance

    I would think that the businesses there would see this as an opportunity and increase their infant formula powder and such to meet the demand of the Mainlanders. They would make more money that way and no shortages.

    • Alex Dương

      I was wondering this myself.

    • 宋易

      I don’t think its business owners protesting.

      • Vance

        That is probably right. It is probably a small, but loud group. It does not seem that the companies are prepared for the influx of Mainland tourists if they are often running out of stock.

  • 宋易

    1. If hoards of mainlanders came to my hometown and behaved the way they do in the mainland, I would want to protest, throw shit, and insult them too.

    2. I have a sister who is extremely obnoxious and acts like a 12 year old, even approaching middle age she says the most inappropriate things in mixed company and is *completely* unaware of it, baffled and defensive when she is pulled aside to be clued in.

    The comments from the netizens are very similar. Mainlanders can neither a. take criticism, or b. understand how excessively obnoxious and filthy their public behavior is.

    3. This attitude that Hong Kong is the dog or the misbehaving son of the Mainland and needs to be disciplined is ex-fucking-actly what Hong Kongers resent and rebuff. This attitude isn’t new, isn’t a result of the recent protests (this or the umbrella protests). It’s old news, and I would be sick of it if I were on the receiving end of it too.

    Rotten mainland pricks…. working on my exit plan now.

    • Alex Dương

      If hoards of mainlanders came to my hometown and behaved the way they do in the mainland, I would want to protest, throw shit, and insult them too.

      I can’t tell from the article whether any of these mainlanders were actually caught misbehaving. If they weren’t, you’re just advocating guilt by association. Reminds me of this from last month.

      Rotten mainland pricks…. working on my exit plan now.

      Sounds like you should have left quite some time ago. Better late than never, I guess.

      • 宋易

        1. Whether the tourists being harassed were provoking the insult/protests or not, I think it would not have been detailed in the article. This is Sina we’re talking about, not the pantheon of journalistic integrity.

        2. The protests were clearly arranged in advance, unless HKers just cruise around with signs like those pictured all the time. But….

        3. You know as well as I do the frustrations that many HKers are dealing with regarding both the mainland government and the behavior of tourists, particularly during Golden Week. So don’t pretend its “guilt by association.” Its an ongoing situation, and this is a good time to draw attention (even if it is futile).

        I *do not*, however, think whatever tourists they harassed necessarily deserved to be physically assaulted or harassed…. but I understand it.

        • Alex Dương

          I *do not*, however, think whatever tourists they harassed necessarily deserved to be physically assaulted or harassed…. but I understand it.

          Do you think it made sense for black activists to harass people having brunch in upscale-ish NYC restaurants because of perceived racism on the part of whites?

          • 宋易

            I think it makes sense for their purposes…. to draw attention. And they got it.

            I would struggle more to explain why anyone would want to have brunch in an upscale NYC restaurant. ;-)

          • Alex Dương

            Fair enough. I don’t think there’s no such thing as bad publicity, but clearly these HKers and those black activists disagree.

          • Jahar

            These people were doing some of the things they want stopped. There was nothing perceived about it.

          • Wave_R1der

            Whatever number of people are doing what others wanted it stopped, doesn’t mean you have the right to go full-on-asshole on an entire group. That is all.

          • Alex Dương

            It’s really unclear to me that the people eating brunch at those restaurants are the ones out there killing blacks or otherwise not valuing black lives.

        • Y

          Oh sure u understand it… Well I understand why the mainlanders call honkies British dogs. Two can play that gàme

    • Vance

      If I had to guess, I would go out on a limb and guess that you are not very impressed with Mainlanders.

      • 宋易

        I’m halfway through my 5th year in Mainland. I’ve moved around a few times and traveled to get a rounded experience, and in between the gripes and insults I’ve made at times when I have boiled over with frustration here and there, I have made excuses for them, defended them, tried to focus on the good and decent I see, and correctly blamed myself for creating some of the situations that caused me frustration or disgust.

        But, yeah, now I’ve reached my limit. I’m sick of the bullshit, sick of the pollution, sick of the obnoxious and stupid behavior, sick of it not getting incrementally better, and sick of the increasing “we don’t want you here” laws and rhetoric of the Xi era.

        China doesn’t want to be a part of the modern world, they are increasingly isolationist and increasingly wanting to have everything their way or the highway, so I don’t want to be a part of China.

        • ScottLoar

          I don’t think the Chinese state or leadership wants isolation; they are refusing integration so, yes, the practice is “I did it my way”.

          • Jahar

            I honestly think that as soon as they think they can do as well with no foreigners in the country, we are all gonna get booted out. The attitude hasn’t changed, it’s the same as the Qing. They only deal with us because they have to.

        • Irvin

          Being a little isolated isn’t always a bad thing, at least we don’t have europe’s muslim problems.

          Ironically, it seems like the hkers are the ones that wants to be isolated in this case.

          • 宋易

            Uh, Xinjiang? Not the same scale, but…. still a Muslim problem.

          • Irvin

            Europe’s muslim problem IS about scale, it’s like comparing one mosquito to a termite infestation.

          • 宋易

            God, I HATE mosquitos.

        • Jahar

          Nail. Hit on head.

        • jaded

          I completely empathise, been here 4 and a half years.. I’ve kicked off at some of this lot, sometimes justifiably, sometimes unjustifiably, in retrospect., The general populous irk me some of them really are trash IMO.

          It’s the lack of consideration that gets me.
          Throwing rubbish anywhere, including glass on ebike lanes, and the person not giving a flying fuck to sweep it up,

          not putting their rubbish into a bin when at Mc Donalds or Starbucks and creating more work for the poor staff,

          the lack of common sense of pedestrians and motorists, who don’t even bother to look before crossing the road, or block up the ebike lane like they’re the only person on the planet.

          I have met some good, educated people, who are nothing like these idiots, and know how to behave. I’m however, looking forward to my exit plan too.

    • Jahar

      I think it’s a matter of face. If someone says your way is wrong, and explains why, save face by throwing a rage fit and ignore what they said.

  • Bluex

    Well, people talking and judging Hong Kongers as if they know what they have to put up with. Though such actions should be abhorred, it is still understandable. Try having floods of mainlanders going to S.Korea or Japan just like Hong Kong and notice any changes to the locals there. Heck, even the friendly Japanese may start having nationalistic tendencies. The sight of mainlander tourists are often frowned upon by locals for obvious reasons, with $$$ their only saving grace.

    • Jahar

      I know a woman who manages a cosmetics shop in Japan, and every time I go visit her, her opinion of Chinese people is worse and worse.

  • Irvin

    They are just frustrated and don’t know where to voice their frustration, most hkers can’t afford an apartment, the disparity between rich and poor is huge, competition in business and jobs is tough, the city is just too small and the population is too large.

    However, thinking mainland tourist have anything to do with their problems is just delusional, they’re barking up the wrong tree and their anger is misplaced.

    • Jahar

      Unless their problem is buying baby formula, or they want everything to be a bit cleaner, quieter, and more organized. Nothing like walking into a wall of people in front of the stairs, escalator, or just in the middle of a sidewalk or shopping mall. They know what it’s like here and they don’t want their home becoming more like it.

  • Teacher in China

    It sure seems like a different country when you enter it from Shenzhen. MLers need a special card with the number of allowed entries on it to get in, almost like a visa; and then there’s the border control and security check you need to go through. More like 2 countries, 2 systems….

  • Jahar

    Koreans are usually very well mannered. The country isn’t as clean and tidy as Japan, and there’s still a few people who spit, but that’s just generally when they see a western person with a Korean girl.

    • JayJay

      And when nuts have been served in bag rather than in a bowl.

  • Jahar

    Mainland Chinese is not an ethnic group.

  • Jahar

    She didn’t say it was a country.

  • RickyBeijing

    Then we must disagree. I can only assume that we have had differing experiences and that you assume that my experiences were less awful than yours, therefore my sentiment is unfounded.

    Ps, not a Brit.

  • KamikaziPilot

    Yeah, seems like they’re mostly harassing family groups or people who aren’t looking for trouble so they know they won’t fight back against a whole mob of them. Definitely cowardly.

  • takasar1

    Says a Korean. Lol. Isn’t the Korean civilization basically a huge hand-me-down from Chinese civilisation??

    • Wave_R1der

      Woah careful now. You might trigger the nationalists into full-metal-asshole mode on..

      • takasar1

        koreaboos need to be put in their place.

  • chucky3176

    Nothing wrong. We’re just wondering why they would insist on going to a place where there are protests galore against them to stay away.

    • Wave_R1der

      Ask those arab immigrants to Europe. Europe really hates muslims (after the attacks), yet many still go there anyway.

      In the end, it’s for a purpose. No one cares about a tiny amount of people hating on someone. Here, in this case, anti-mainlander Hongkongers and Mainlander shoppers.

    • Alex Dương

      Some of the netizens seem to feel the same way you do, as they encourage others to shop in Macau instead.

  • Wave_R1der

    Believe me, they will be the next scapegoat of everything when there are no more mainlanders to be bitched at.

    • Yes!

      Hypothetical. There’re enough mainlanders to last another 5000 years. :D

  • Daniel

    When there was a protests going on last time in HK I was actually on their side. But having a gf from mainland china and now seeing how they treat them I am not anymore.
    Someone here wrote about how you could spot out the mainlanders in HK because they are “disgusting and uncivilised shower of cunts” From the pictures above and text it would seem that HK-ers are not much better.

    • Wave_R1der

      There is never a group who are complete saints or complete sinners.

  • Zappa Frank

    Come on, Singapore than? China itself is autonomous but import a lot of food from abroad and soon will need water… This is not a discrimination for autonomy

  • Zappa Frank

    Is not the spicy taste, is the numb effect of the huajiao what I hate. They put it everywhere. I m not a fan of Sichuan cuisine.

    • Kai

      We are brothers.

      • Zappa Frank

        Hahaha, so I’m not the only one. In chongqing is impossible to avoid.

  • sdfqef

    I don’t blame HK people. Chinese mainlanders driving up the prices everywhere. They got rich way too fast.

  • sdfqef

    Hong Kong should implement a system similar to Japan. Limit the purchase rights of non citizens.

  • Foreign Devil

    Just equalize prices between HK and mainland and problem solved.