Japanese PM Abe Visits Yasukuni Shrine, Chinese Reactions

Japan Prime Minister Abe Shinzo visiting the controversial Yasukuni Shrine where WWII war criminals are buried, on 2013 December 26.

From NetEase:

Japanese Prime Minister Abe Shinzo Visited Yasukuni Shrine This Morning

Xinhua newsflash — Japan’s Kyodo news agency reported on the 26th that Japanese government announced that Prime Minister Abe Shinzo visited the Yasukuni Shrine this morning at 10:30am Beijing time. Abe claims he is doing so in compliance with his commitments as Prime Minister to pay homage to and mourn the dead, not to hurt China and Korea, and remains committed to together building good relations with China and Korea. Additionally, he hopes the Japanese people ill understand the meaning of his visit, and allegedly he may from this point on visit every year. Abe stressed that visiting the Yasukuni Shrine is a pledge that Japan will never again wage war in the future.

Abe Zhinzo expressed to reporters after visiting the Yasukuni Shrine, “My choice to visit today is because I want to recognize all the work done by the new government this past year, as well as promise that the Japanese people will never again be drawn into a war.”

Japan Prime Minister Shinzo Abe visiting the controversial Yasukuni Shrine where WWII war criminals are buried, on 2013 December 26.

“I understand that because of some misunderstandings, some people criticize the act of visiting the Yasukuni Shrine as honoring World War II war criminals, but today I am promising the start of a new era, that people will never again experience the suffering of war.”

Abe at the same time said, “I have never intended to hurt the feelings of the Chinese and Korean people [damage the relationship between Japan and China/Korea].”

Japan’s Foreign Minister Kishida Fumio expressed to media journalists that he believes a politician or head of state visiting the Yasukuni Shrine is a matter of individual belief, “no matter what, we must avoid this becoming a diplomatic or political crisis.”

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe visiting the controversial Yasukuni Shrine where WWII war criminals are buried, on 2013 December 26.

Abe had previously visited the Yasukuni Shrine for the annual fall festival in October of last year as President of the Liberal Democratic Party, but had not visited since becoming Prime Minister. For the annual spring and autumn festivals this year, Abe had both times made an offering of a “masakaki tree” under his title of “Prime Minister”. On the August 15th “anniversary of the Japanese surrender”, he had made a monetary offering at his own expense as President of the Liberal Democratic Party.

While participating in the presidential elections for the Liberal Democratic Party last year, Abe expressed “extreme loathing” that he wasn’t able to visit the Yasukuni Shrine the first time with the Cabinet. The second time, after becoming Prime Minister, Abe has been sizing up the situation, constantly looking for a suitable opportunity to visit. “With regards to honoring the brave souls, visiting is necessary,” something that Abe has maintained all along. In view of this, Abe’s visit to the Yasukuni Shrine despite domestic and foreign pressure is of great significance. This is Abe’s first visit throughout his two terms as Prime Minister, and the last visit by a Japanese Prime Minister was in 2006, when the Prime Minister of the time Koizumi Junichiro specifically chose the August 15th anniversary of the Japanese surrender to visit.

Japan Prime Minister Abe Shinzo visiting the controversial Yasukuni Shrine where WWII war criminals are buried, on 2013 December 26.

Starting in 1975, all Japanese Prime Ministers had visited the Yasukuni Shrine as “private individuals” On 1996 July 29, the Prime Minister of the time Hashimoto Ryutaro visited the Yasukuni Shrine as “Prime Minister”. Former Prime Minister Koizumi Junichiro visited the Yasukuni Shrine six times on 2001 August 13, 2002 April 21, 2003 January 14, 2004 January 1, 2005 October 17, and 2006 August 15.

China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs has previously expressed that the Yasukuni Shrine problem concerns whether or not Japan properly recognizes and deeply reflects upon its history of invasion and colonialism, and whether or not it respects the feelings of the people of China and other victim Asian countries.

Japanese media says this is the first time since Koizumi Junichiro in 2006 that a current in-office prime minister has visited the Yasukuni Shrine. Japanese media analyzed that Abe’s choice to visit the Yasukuni Shrine one year after his regime took office is primarily to cater to the demands of conservatives in the country. Abe’s visit will interfere with head of state talks between Japan and China/Korea.

According to reports, both China and Korea have already expressed strong opposition [to the visit].

Japan Prime Minister Abe Shinzo.

Comments from NetEase:

1個好朋友 [网易江苏省无锡市网友]:

Rationally analyze, objectively confront.

网易湖北省武汉市手机网友 ip:119.103.*.*:

I’m embarrassed to even say anything [criticize/condemn].

网易广东省东莞市手机网友 ip:183.23.*.*:

Have our nuclear submarines go sail a route [around/near Japan].

网易湖北省荆州市松滋市网友 ip:61.184.*.*:

Any response or counter should be principled, with benefit, with moderation, where the people of the various Asian nations are united in jointly opposing Japan’s conduct.

wang58376670 [网易辽宁省本溪市网友]:

We must be rational, without being duped by the Japanese, because what they want is us to have internally disorder and chaos.

网易山东省济南市网友 [拳击霉狗脚蹬日寇]: (responding to 119.103.*.*)

Japan doing this is something China and Korean anticipated long ago. In any case, it is ultimately about national strength. Visiting or not visiting [the Yasukuni Shrine] is just symbolic. All that matters is whose economy is stronger, whose military is more powerful, and I think the world will again return to the eve of World War II, so Chinese people, give up on your delusions, prepare to go to war, because Asia truly lacks one last war!

vip小虫 [网易黑龙江省哈尔滨市网友]: (responding to above)

If it is just a localized conflict involving the Diaoyu Islands, China will definitely lose!~
If China wants to win, it must be all-out war, and it must be resolute in wiping Japan off the face of the earth in order for it to be possible!
Fighting a localized war, China simply has no advantage!
However, in my view, it would not be so easy for China and Japan to go to war even if they wanted to! Because China cannot rid itself of Japan; just look at the products all around us and you’d know [it’s true]!~

网易澳大利亚手机网友(118.210.*.*):

Hehe, I am a Northeasterner, and listening to what my grandmother used to say, when Japan first occupied the Northeast, they killed a lot of resisting Chinese people. Later when their occupation was stable, they began to treat this place like their home, and began to treat the Chinese people well, as well as enacted some legislation that protected the Chinese people. My grandmother said what left a deep impression on her was a soldier who was executed for raping a Chinese woman, and that after several years, the Northeast had completely changed. She never said how, but what was certain was that after Japanese rule, she ate better than she did before. Also, in the past when people had fevers, they would all eat herbal medicines, but now they could go get IVs in the cities. In the past, people didn’t even dare think it could be so easy to get Western medical care, and there came with the Japanese many in the medical fields.

Slowly, people’s attitudes towards the Japanese began to change, cursing them as devils here to bring misery on their lips, but approving of the [improvements in] material life that the Japanese brought in their hearts. More and more Japanese people arrived in the Northeast to live, and there were even some people who even married Japanese girls to be their wives, and slowly, people were no longer so against them. However, when hearing about Japan continuing to invade China, people would still hate the Japanese to death, but very few people rose up to fight against Japanese rule, because in fact, capitalism had already completely corrupted them. What was even more important was being able to get enough to eat in those days, that food was like it is now in our age of peace and prosperity. That was very hard to come by and in the end, many people began becoming numb to notions like national unity. In comparison to the unrest and insecurity [of life] in China, Manchukuo was frankly paradise on Earth.

Then after the Japanese surrendered, my grandmother said that on the day the Japanese surrendered, her father said that although it was worth celebrating, life would again become difficult. During the Japanese occupation, the Northeast’s agriculture was very developed, with widespread mechanization. In those few years, I dare to be certain that many people in the Northeast lost their sense of direction, because there was a very big difference between the Japanese and Chinese way of life/society, or at least in the eyes of the law [under the Japanese], all Chinese people were equal… Forget it, not going to go on…

网易黑龙江省手机网友 [透明的天空蓝]: (responding to above)

Hope there will be even more truths exposed.

网易上海市手机网友(58.246.*.*): (responding to above)

Hehe, I’m also a Northeasterner, but how come I’ve never heard anything like this?

网易黑龙江省哈尔滨市网友 [zanyczar]: (responding to above)

After Manchukuo was founded, it became one of the fastest growing economies in Asia and even the world at the time. In 1945, Manchukuo’s industrialization surpassed that of Japan itself, first in Asia. Manchukuo established a relatively complete and advanced industrial system at the time in Asia, including rail transportation, aviation, maritime, steel, coal, train locomotive, automobile manufacturing, airplane manufacturing, military, and other industries. It was the largest industrial system in China up until the Cultural Revolution. Manchukuo industrial output in 1936 was worth 807 million yuan, but by 1940, it had reached 2.647 billion yuan; productivity had increased over 60%. It formed relatively complete industries including metallurgy, mining, airplane, locomotive and automobile manufacturing, shipbuilding, textile, transportation and logistics, and energy. Manchukuo was once Asia’s most developed and richest country, its manufacturing industry for a time surpassing Japan.

网易浙江省杭州市西湖区手机网友 [romaxhliang]: (responding to above)

All fucking bullshit.

网易湖北省咸宁市网友 ip:27.24.*.*: (responding to above)

An Australian slave, your grandmother didn’t tell you how many times the Japanese fucked her? You may very well be a Japanese descendent, and Abe may be your kin, or even your brother by another mother, and then you’d be shoulder-to-shoulder with the king. Australian king man, hurry and go acknowledge your relatives, maybe your father even has a place in the Yasukuni Shrine. US-Japanese spies sure know how to make up shit.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Comments from NetEase:

gly20000 [网易福建省泉州市手机网友]:

They’ve [the Japanese] visited N times now… and there hasn’t been any bad/harmful consequences.

网易北京市手机网友 [网易北京市手机网友]:

Little Japan, once again duping people. Chinese people, little Japan is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. If little Japan is not wiped out, there will never be a day of peace/security.

网易浙江省绍兴市网友 ip:183.144.*.*: (responding to above)

You go wipe out then. This important task we’ll give to you.

网易浙江省台州市网友 ip:211.140.*.*:

The men of China declaration: Tomorrow, wipe out Japan; in one month, unify Asia; in two months, occupy America.

网易江苏省盐城市手机网友 ip:180.126.*.*:

Domestic problems are domestic problems, but against the outside we must be united!

czguohao [网易江苏省南京市手机网友]:

Resolutely oppose!

网易北京市网友 [伍毛他爹一块]:

If China and Japan were to go to war, and China wipes out Japan, what benefit is there to the ordinary common people? Will [we] no longer have to consume gutter oil? No longer have to breathe smog? Will be able to afford medical care? No longer have to live in wells? No longer have to enter a lottery to buy a car [to get a license plate]? No longer have limits on buying real estate property? If nothing changes, what the J8 are you getting excited for?

Japanese Prime Minister Abe Shinzo.

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  • Terrik

    Wow, way more reasonable comments than I expected

    • RaphaeI

      Uh, did you miss all the comments calling for genocide?

      • Comebackkid13

        Yeah, but I saw a general balance of both. The rational comments, people like that are needed to bring discussion and understanding forward. Especially when governments on both sides are antagonizing the common folks of the other. People here in Japan are just as racist.

        There does seem to be recently a growing fear that China will attempt to invade one day. If History repeats itself…

        • Jobjed

          Japan invaded China for resources, what does China have to gain from invading Japan? It’s a strip of land littered with volcanoes, on top of a fault line and prone to tsunamis; there would be no benefit to invading it.

          If you’re thinking that the Chinese would like to invade Japan as a form of revenge, then that is also unlikely. Revenge would only require destruction, not invasion. China is in possession of WMD’s and have multiple means of delivering them including ballistic missiles, naval bombardment and aerial delivery. In short, China has no incentive to set boots on Japanese soil; it will be costly in terms of lives and the benefits can be easily gained though alternative, less costly methods.

          • Comebackkid13

            You seem to not possess strong reading comprehension. However, I shall clarify for you.

            I am American. Here means “in Japan.” “A fear” indicates the fear the Japanese people have. This is not my prediction. It is what Japanese people said.

            “If History repeats itself” is just a random addage with no value.

            “If you’re thinking” should be replaced with “if they’re thinking.” I am not disagreeing with anything you said I just don’t know why you said it.

          • Jobjed

            Alright, fair enough.

  • Freddi BuBu

    This kind of gesture is not unexpected given the fact that their government has yet to even acknowledge the events of the Nanjing massacre…..

    • Taoran

      Actually, Japan has acknowledged it and apologized numerous times, for example Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama in 1995, or PM Ryutaro Hashimoto in 1997, or Junichiro Koizumi in 2005.

      • Alex Dương

        Japan would only have had to apologize once if major elected officials up to the office of Prime Minister didn’t deny it.

        http://atimes.com/atimes/Japan/OA19Dh01.html

        • Jahar

          You mean you wouldn’t be able to use that as an excuse.

          • Alex Dương

            What’s the excuse? Japan doesn’t apologize? Or that their apologies don’t mean anything because they’re so often contradicted by statements from other major elected officials?

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            So Japan did apologize, but since there are other officials who disagree about the PM apologizing, then it is not accepted.

          • Kai

            No, it’s more like single-issue politics:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-issue_politics

            When Chinese people see Japanese government officials visit the Yasukuni Shrine or do/say anything that suggests historical revisinism or denialism, they think about how these people were popularly voted into their offices and wonder if the people who voted for them also share their beliefs and/or insensitivity (if ot outright contempt) for what the visits communicate to other Asian nations/people.

            There’s a difference between a random right-winger citizen visiting Yasukuni and an elected representative of the government and people.

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            Ok. That would make a bit more sense.

            But if we go by that logic, then Arabs and Muslim have the right to think the same way about Bush, Clinton and America for example, who bombed, vetoed anything against their friend when their friend did wrong but persued sanctions against the Arab and/or Muslim country. And Americans voted in people like Bush, Jr and Mady Albright.

          • David

            People choose who they want to be mad at. Governments often use these emotions as a way to control their people. There are many countries that still use President Bush as a ignition source for their young firebrands. Iran, for instance regularly burns effigies of President Bush, even though he has not been president for 5 years. Also, Secretary Albright was appointed by President Clinton not elected, but that is a different issue.

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            I am sure she had other elected positions before being chosen for her role by Clinton.

            Yes, people choose who to be mad at. Iran has chanted death to America since the revolution. It’s become a catchphrase that has lost its meaning. America doesn’t help itself in the Middle East though. China, if smart enough, could capitalise there, I know they are trying in Africa and South America, so we’ll see how that goes.

          • David

            Secretary Albright has never held an elected position (she was an academic for many years before being tapped as a national security adviser to President Carter) and although I was not a fan of her when she was Secretary of State, she is actually quite an impressive and accomplished woman. However, you are right about our foreign policy in the middle east.

          • Kai

            I wouldn’t exactly say anyone has the “right” to think anything but a lot of Arabs and Muslims do in fact think that way about America.

          • Alex Dương

            It’s not just “disagreeing about the PM apologizing”; it’s contradicting the PM’s apology. Do you understand the difference between disagreement and contradiction?

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            Yes, I do.

            The question to ask would have been whether to take the PM’s apology and use that to move forward or use the right wing hard liners words to keep the flames going. China could have been the ‘bigger man’ here and say they apologised. The guy in charge of the country accepted the guilt. This would have given it far more precedence than the ongoing words. Simply put, the PM apology would not have been accepted anyway. Even if the others didn’t disagree or contradict him when he apologised. Because China needs this feud going. It isn’t in the Chinese government’s interest to do so.

          • Alex Dương

            If you understand the distinction, then I think it’s hard for you to credibly argue that a contradicted apology is meaningful.

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            The Japanese PM apologized. Unlike the British Prime Minister in his visit to India, he failed to apologize for the Amritsar massacre. Yet India and the UK have a good relationship despite what has happened. Many people in the UK felt it is too late to apologize while others felt it would be hollow. There were some even saying there is no need to. This happens in a democracy where people will disagree, even elected officials.

            I understand you are saying that elected officials in Japan have denied what has happened (where as no one denies what has happened from the British point about the Amritsar massacre). But the PM is the top dog. If he apologizes, his view supercedes that of someone less important (unless that is a very high ranking official who is equal or close to equal footing of the PM).

            I guess on this stance, we have to just stop here. There isn’t point in going forward.

          • Jahar

            Cite some sources. 1 or 2 crackpot mayors don’t equate to the Prime Minister, who, you are conveniently forgetting, said his reason for visiting the shrine is to reflect on the horrors of war.

          • Alex Dương

            If you’re referring to “1 or 2 crackpot mayors,” then despite being dishonest, you know perfectly well that what I said is true: the statements are regularly contradicted.

            And I say you’re dishonest because Ishihara Shintaro wasn’t some “crackpot mayor”; he was elected three times as the Governor of Tokyo. Need I remind you that Tokyo is an international city and the capital of Japan, not some podunk town in the boondocks?

            Also, if you believe a visit to Yasukuni can convincingly coincide with a statement of “I wish for peace,” then you’re pretty easily persuaded by right-wing Japanese propaganda. Let’s see your answer to two questions that no netouyo can answer: why hasn’t the Emperor of Japan visited Yasukuni since 1978, and what does that say about Yasukuni?

          • Alex Dương

            No answers? Not surprised.

          • Jahar

            Answers to what?

          • Alex Dương

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/stories/japanese-pm-abe-visits-yasukuni-shrine-chinese-reactions.html#comment-1184339643

            1. Why hasn’t the Emperor of Japan visited Yasukuni since 1978, and

            2. what does that say about Yasukuni?

          • Jahar

            That’s not on this post. The answer? I don’t know, or care. I haven’t visited it either.

          • Alex Dương

            I formatted the questions to make it easier for you, but it looks like you don’t read very well:

            “Let’s see your answer to two questions that no netouyo can answer: why hasn’t the Emperor of Japan visited Yasukuni since 1978, and what does that say about Yasukuni?”

            And if you don’t care, why are you so vigorously defending the practice? People who don’t care tend to…not comment.

          • Jahar

            You formatted questions from another post, not from this one. I have no trouble reading questions. I don’t care why the Emperor does or doesn’t do what he does or doesn’t do.

            I just scrolled up and saw the questions you were talking about. When I posted my last reply, for some reason the posts must not have been in order. The question “what excuse?” Answer, ” the PM visiting a shrine gives people an excuse to hate japan. and the other question, I believe my answer is sufficient.

            I’m not vigorously defending the practice. I just think it’s ridiculous how upset people get over such a trivial matter. And use it as more ammo for their rabid, foaming at the mouth, nationalist hatred of japan. a place which most of them know nothing about.

          • Alex Dương

            If it’s so trivial, why has no Emperor of Japan visited the shrine since 1978? Oh, of course, you don’t care.

            If you want people to actually believe that, then don’t comment. It’s clear from your comments that you do care quite a bit if your frame of mind is arguing against people with a “rabid, foaming at the mouth, nationalist hatred of Japan.”

            Because you know what? People who don’t care…don’t care about people who hate Japan.

          • Jahar

            You seem to be Chinese, so let me try to explain this differently. I’m not posting to win any arguments. I don’t know why you think I would care who didn’t visit a shrine. I don’t really care who does. This is what I don’t care about. I thought I made that clear above.

            Idiotic nationalist racists in China make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes Japan. It’s the idiotic nationalism and racism that bothers me. When people say that what a right wing mayor says are the words of the country, and the PMs words are lies, this is choosing one over the other solely to fuel their racism, and to justify it

          • Alex Dương

            Oh, so, you do care; you just don’t care about anything that destroys your argument. I see.

          • Jahar

            The emperor not going destroys my argument? How? As I said, lots of people don’t go.

          • Alex Dương

            Your claim (not an argument) is that visiting the shrine is a, quote, “trivial matter.” If it’s so unimportant, why has the Emperor of Japan actively boycotted Yasukuni since 1978?

            “I don’t care” doesn’t cut it because if you really didn’t care, we wouldn’t be having this discussion, and it’s such a cheap cop out. If the problem of 14 enshrined Class A war criminals was “trivial,” Japanese legislators themselves wouldn’t bother to raise the issue up for debate in the Diet of Japan.

          • Jahar

            Are you telling me that I’m wrong about both my opinion and my feelings?

          • Alex Dương

            Opinions and feelings by definition can’t be “wrong,” so no, I’m not telling you that. I’m telling you that your claim of “I don’t care” is an unconvincing and cheap cop out.

          • Jahar

            This really is going nowhere. I’m always going to think the PM visiting the shrine is a trivial matter. You say me not caring is a cheap cop out, I say I’m not copping out of anything. It doesn’t matter to me who goes or doesn’t, who is enshrined and isn’t. What bothers me is the reactions of people, to what, as I said, is a trivial matter. I think it’s ridiculous. If people didn’t hate Japan, this wouldn’t bother them so much.

            Should they be enshrined? Of course not. Should the PM be visiting? From an international relations point of view, probably not. But these reactions are what make it so he can easily score points at home. People who vote come first, right?

            But to say he is worshiping war criminals is ridiculous He’s not Sauromon and japan isn’t Mordor. This doesn’t happen in the real world. I met a girl once who read online that the temple was dedicated to evil, and she believed it.

            Ridiculous believe of nonsense bothers me.

          • Alex Dương

            Setting aside that you contradicted yourself,

            1. “It doesn’t matter to me who goes or doesn’t, who is enshrined and isn’t.”

            2. “Should they be enshrined? Of course not.”

            it’s still laughable that you claim to not care and yet took the time to write a very long reply to me in paragraph form. But please feel free to continue copping out with “I don’t care…hold up, let me tell you why people who are upset at Japanese PM visits to Yasukuni are stupid nationalists…but yeah, I don’t care.”

          • Jahar

            holy shit man. just because i don’t care doesn’t mean there is no right or wrong way. I just dont care if they are or not. and again, how is not caring copping out?

            you really can’t understand my reasoning? I thought I made it clear. I don’t care who visits. i think people who freak out about it are overreacting. why is this so hard to understand?. there is no contradiction at all. not even close.

            Is it the phrase “I don’t care” that you don’t understand? I wrote the paragraph to explain to you what it was I don’t care about. you seem to think i mean i don’t care about anything, anywhere, ever. Or are you just intentionally ignoring my point?

          • Alex Dương

            I didn’t say not caring is a cop out; I said your CLAIM that you don’t care is a cop out. Not having an opinion on the matter (i.e. not caring) is fine. But saying that you “think people who freak out about it are overreacting” means you have an opinion and therefore, you care.

            The cop out is expressing your opinion and then hiding behind “I don’t care” when someone engages you in discussion. If you really didn’t care, then you wouldn’t have an opinion, and we wouldn’t still be having this discussion.

          • Jahar

            The reaction is what I care about. not whether or not the PM goes.

          • Alex Dương

            So you care about the effect but not its cause. Hmm.

          • Jahar

            It’s not so uncommon. You’ve heard the saying, “You’re making a mountain out of a molehill”?

          • Alex Dương

            It’s good that you’ve now consistently admitted that you do, in fact, care about SOME aspect of this whole situation. (Because really, if you didn’t care about any aspect, you would not have bothered commenting.)

            But to care about the effect while ignoring the cause shows a very undeveloped sense of reasoning. Why does the effect bother you while the cause is completely ignored?

      • The Enlightened One

        I agree, Chinese LOVE playing the victim card and Japan just gave them that card for life. No matter how much Japan apologizes or helps… China will always play that card over and over..

        It is getting old and makesChinese look like children.

        • JankyFosci

          Along with the rest of Asia who also have grievances with Japan right? Please. Seriously some of you people are so delusional with hate for China that you’ll twist any history.

        • bujiebuke

          I don’t suppose you’d say the same thing for the Japanese who fervently believe they were “tricked” by the Americans to bomb pearl harbor? What does it take to make people like you to understand that the Chinese suffered atrocities caused by the Japanese and these horrific acts are either swept under the rug or barely acknowledged?

          Your statement is equivalent to saying “People who get assaulted LOVE playing the victim card”.

          By the way, those statements by Japanese PM were either personal apologies or were later heavily redacted.

          edit: I find your username to be entirely ironic.

  • niggaplz

    It’s true that under Japanese rule, Northeastern China became the most industrialized, most advanced region in china; and remained so until Den Xiaopings reform in 1970s.

    • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

      And I’m sure the Chinese are very grateful, but trying to rationalize that life improved when living under the yoke of another nation is just throwing gasoline on the fire.

  • niggaplz

    Dalian, Shenyang, Changchun, Heilongjiang were also mostly built under the guidance of Japanese and Russians.

    • nqk123

      A hidden fact: Japan helped china modernized. $1.2 billion per year development aids (to amends 1930 invasion). not many people know, especially Chinese.

      • nqk123

        beside all the killing Japan did, there is no doubt that it was Japan that helped modernized (road, train, education, economic,etc) Korea, Taiwan, China, and others.

        • Jobjed

          “Helped”… really? I’m sure a portion of Japanese FDI has been used to built infrastructure, but they’re not investing it out of their charitable nature. As the word ‘investing’ implies, Japanese businesses expect a profit from whatever it is they’ve invested in.

          Continuing with your logic, I can say China helped Japan overcome her 2 decades of economic stagnation by providing Japanese businesses with profitable yields from their investments.

          In business, there’s no such thing as “helping”, there’s only profit. Perhaps you should stop portraying Japanese investors as saints and angels to the very countries that their grandfathers invaded.

          • iLL

            they were forced to repay. Not Help

          • Jahar

            They were told they didn’t have to pay reparations. It was a willing choice to help.

          • Claude

            There was significant LOW Interest loans over the course of 30 years but there has always been aid from the Japanese to the Chinese.

            Blog.foreignpolicy.com/post/2010/09/28/japan_sends_china_12_billion_in_aid_every_year#sthash.RwuazZIA.dpbs

          • KamikaziPilot

            True, all governments put their self interests first, with humanitarian concerns far down the list of priorities. Many try to find a silver lining when trying to justify an invasion of another country/region, but in the big picture invading another country is rarely justified.

          • Jahar

            It was aid. Given, not invested.

          • Alex Dương

            Aid doesn’t have to be repaid. Loans do.

          • nqk123

            ok dude, if that make you and your wumao comrades happy.

      • Jobjed

        Sources?

        • Jahar

          It’s public knowledge. Google it. read the Japanese budget.

        • Nessquick Choco

          any other language search, just no chinese please …

      • 白色纯棉小裤裤

        A hidden fact: China renounced war reparations from japan in 1972. ODA is just another form of war reparations.

        Another hidden fact: China was forced to paid 34,000,000 taels of silver after first sino-japanese war to japan. This was equivalent to 6.4 times the japanese government revenue. Again, what percentage of Chinese government revenue does 1.2 billion account for?

        • nqk123

          not a hidden fact. many people know, especially the Chinese. but some how contributions from other nations to China seem to be hidden, especially to Chinese.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Most people of my age know ODA. It is just ignorant to think Chinese should thank japan for war reparations which is very little comparing to the damage Japan had done to China.

          • David

            True enough. but there is a wide gap between thanking the Japanese for them and acknowledging them. Reparations are by their very nature a debt that is acknowledged as owed (normally as part of surrender conditions but they could be imposed later), so no thanks is due, but acknowledgement should be given (even if they are refused or if they are accepted but are inadequate, that is a different argument). Of course money can not itself make up for the devastation China suffered. If you lost a family member directly or as a result of destruction of infrastructure/farmland you would probably hate the Japanese your whole life no matter what they said or did.

      • nqk123

        not that I’m defending Japan, but this nation’s contribution (financially) to UN and other nations a lots. But for some reason the international community never seem to recognized it. my guess is because they never send troops?

    • Jobjed

      It’s a telltale sign then that the main economic centers of China today are not in those cities, which have been relegated to something akin to the Chinese version of the rust-belt.

      • David

        Yes, but the Japanese were kicked out, so the fact that the factories they built in the 1930’s and 1940’s are no longer being used (for the most part) has much more to do with the government that took over then with the development the Japanese invested in them (for their own use during the war), Are you not aware of how an area has been picked for development in China for the last 40 years?

    • I lived in Changchun for a long time and the whole city was designed by the Japanese, they even had subways! you know what Chinese did? Mao destroyed the subway tunnels and Deng turn those subway stations into crappy shopping malls that smell like malatang. I think they did the same in Dalian, which by the way its beautiful ^^ but no thanks to the chinese I’m sure.

      • Jin Park

        Oh you know what? , you are right aren’t you (wink wink) the Nazi also built some infanstrutres in countries where they had invaded in ww2 but forget the fact that they had commit inhuman catastrophe genocide on jews. let’s all forget all that shenanigans. by prasing their acihevement which was not even intended to help local population but rather help the facists, if you were to think that way in europe you would be idotic but don’t worry it’s oky for the japnese imperlist invader to commit geocide if they create some infastrcutres. YOU ARE A UNDERLYING, DOUBLE STAND, HYPOCRTICAL facist Australian white policy promoter.
        PS Im from Changchun and Currently in Austrlia and yes f**JUJJ*** u

        • I’m not australian bro, in fact, I am absolutely NOT ok with destroying what others have built, which happens to be a chinese specialty since memorial times.

          拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆拆

          Don’t call me double standard when you are defending China while you
          live in Australia. In fact you might not be very outgoing since you
          should know by now that Australians are not about saving face but rather
          putting it right in your face for everyone to see.

          Hating all the west while you text from your iphone. What a retard. I got tired of retards like you, trust me, their parents think you are the shit when in reality you’re just some annoying kid who couldn’t even unclog a toilette and calls dad who btw can’t unclog it either.

          Don’t hate me, in Japan they teach their children the atrocities they’ve done in the past. Many of them even recognize it, in fact, they even took 2 nuclear bombs and from a Chinese perspective (which is not mine) that should be enough punishment… but no, unfortunately you’ve been told half of the story and I’m so sorry for you, because as you might not know, CCPP will never ever teach you how wrong they did that June afternoon in 1990, neither they will teach you if a old temple or some very ancient neighborhood is in the way of Wanda plaza, it will be destroyed. 拆拆拆拆 Just do what your parents tell you and enjoy your free time surrounded by walls.

          Everything you said is just so unilateral, you know, I lived in China and I loved it but that doesn’t mean I will love it blindly because that is just plain dumb. Not recognizing your flaws might slow down your growth as a man, almost drastically.
          Yes, Changchun was re-designed by the CCPP and it’s a fucking disaster let me tell you. it was still pretty when I got there but not anymore.

          You simply can’t cure hate with more hate, that was long time ago and I am pretty sure you wank your Johnson to exhaustion while watching those Jap films.

          PS You are truly lame man, a Chinese patriot living in Australia standing up for impostor Zionist Jews. A true fucking joke.

          Enjoy your freedom bro, here’s something for you. A real chinese man with real chinese balls for you to see

          http://chinadigitaltimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/89-63_tank_man_-_web.jpg

          • Jin Park

            did i say i hate the west? did i say that i hate white people or i hate any other type of people? did i say i hate japanese people? you are a containmaintion for our race stop marrying our kind. screw you and slutty wife forever. i am going to rape your wife in front so hard that even satan is going to beg god to stop me tourtring your wife then i am going tie you up in a dungeon and i will slice your fleash 1cm at a time then heal again i will repeat this process over over again untill my hatard vanishes. i am not defending the jews or the communist party for any reason. i pleage my allegence to my race and i love australia. for you to say that thank the japanese but demonize chinese instead. wtf do you have the right to tell about my people what to do? i am sick and tired so self rightous white people such as yourself. you just provided me another why white trash ought be killed.

          • wow you are SOoooo threatening! I am scared to death let me tell you. In fact all you said you would do is probably product of all those hours playing computer games. Yes, indeed. Not only I married one of yours, I also pissed off a few by doing it, and before I found my Chinese Ms. Right, I made sure I had lots and lots of hot steamy sex with several and very attractive chinese women (some of them even married or engaged!) whom I met at work, parties or just out in the street which by the way write to me on QQ or weixin every now and then because they remember and cherish my average skilled over-sized ever stiff penis, my very interesting conversation topics, my sensitive ways to express my feelings, the extension of my attentions and compliments and besides my sense of freedom, my charming smile of course.

            Now I wonder how could you rape anyone when it’s well known that most chinese men like you have very small male organs. I even wonder if any aussie chicks ever pay attention to you. You’re no threat to anyone buddy, only to daddy’s wallet and eventually, your own face.

            And I also wonder how your english is so good when I know by first hand that of all Chinese who take the ielts test most of them never get more than a 6. And a 6 is quite the achievement for all of you! Ah yeah I know now… you have a computer helping you.

            “I very like Chinese food”
            “Oh yeah? well I very like Chinese vulva”

          • Jin Park

            how wonderful is your threat to me??you stupid fucking spainish little cunt hahahha. i can rape your wife in any possible El Puma R. you mad bro? look at yodurself pathetic spanish retard, do you think you will ever the same quality women as me??? i only hate white trash like yourself to containminate our race.the bitch below is type that i would have sex with and yourself?? tasteless piece of shit. why would any one love an over aged fatass white trash over me? it seems that we both drifted from our main topic and that is your denial to racism. how am i defeding the jews by stating the truth of the holocaust and present it your dumb fuck brain? how am i hating the west? did i show sign of hate on the japanese people in general? do i like the CCP? no i don’t. and all you have say is to praise the japanese invaders for bulding some good infanstrcture.and demonize my people?

          • mr.wiener

            @disqus_PvTmPJNDDJ:disqus.
            Consider yourself on notice. If you continue this thread you will be moderated.

          • mr.wiener

            @elpumar:disqus
            I’m advising you to exit this thread. Jin has already been warned. No future continuation of this nonsense will be tolerated.

          • I am sorry because you mods have always been so cool to me and I behaved like a dick. I apologize for writing all that racist shit. A.

          • Zappa Frank

            sincerely, read what you wrote… I hope you have something like 16 years old.

          • Jin Park

            sorry mr. italain i am 19 and i dont understand what you mean

          • mr.wiener

            @disqus_PvTmPJNDDJ:disqus and @elpumar:disqus
            Girls, get a room or give it a rest willya?

  • nqk123

    more rhetoric from all sides. let move on people

  • SzMach5

    Abe visited the shrine the same day as Mao’s 120th anniversary. I really think that he knew this and so, intended this as a political move.
    This was a really dumb decision for Abe because I can’t see any positive results coming out of this for Japan or East Asia.

    • Elijah

      Every day is an anniversary to someone somewhere. Means nothing except to those with a victim-mentality.

      • Comebackkid13

        Boom! Headshot!

      • SzMach5

        True, but Mao, unfortunately, is still popular amongst the Chinese government officials since they did celebrate his anniversary. However, this year was more low-key, which is good. I don’t understand what you mean when you mentioned “victim-mentality”.
        Nevertheless, this wasn’t a helpful move from Abe.

        • Elijah

          Victim-Mentality = A way of thinking in which the subject perceives themselves to always be the target in some way, includes conspiracy theories and paranoia.

          Of course, that’s just my understanding of the word, too lazy to look it up in the dictionary to be sure… Kinda high too sorry.

          • SzMach5

            Ok, but I don’t understand how that’s related to anniversaries/birthdays…
            Save those joints for 4-20 man.

          • Rick in China

            Um., clearly you should NOT be celebrating 4-20, I think you’ve lost enough brain cells. Let me explain what Elijah means:

            People who are so completely self-involved and have a victim-mentality, would create offense where none was intended and consider it a personal attack because of ridiculous reasons, such as, AS YOU SAID, “I really think that he knew this and so, intended this” — For example. Lets say I’m a victim-mentality bible thumper and dislike the new pope’s progressive attitude. Lets say the pope makes a statement about the church no longer condemning gay people from marriage, just not necessarily supporting it. Lets say that’s an issue I ignorantly am vehemently against. What Elijah is implying here is, the victim mentality fucktard, whose birthday it just happens to be, would say “FUCKING POPE! I know he made this statement JUST to FUCK with me! How dare he. Try to trample on MY values!”

            Get it? Victim mentality. Everyone is out to get you. Everything is for any reason you can figure up as to why it’s JUST to spite YOU, because you’re the centre of the world, when in fact – no, nobody gives a fuck that it’s mao’s 120th birthday, most people don’t even know that fact, because he is *irrelevant* – as irrelevant as statements you make on the internet. Get it son? Good.

          • SzMach5

            Whoa what the hell man? Chill out. First off, that 4-20 reference was a joke since Elijah said he was too high in his previous comment. I don’t even smoke cigarettes and have never smoked anything in my life. My brain cells are perfectly fine, thank you for your concern though.
            I would strongly argue that I do not have a victim mentality because I don’t support what Mao Zedong did to the Chinese people and the Chinese culture. In summary, he had done way too many tragic things in the 1960-70s, end of story. I wish Mao could be more irrelevant.
            Now, unfortunately, the current Chinese government obviously still hold Mao in high regards since they have a portrait of him in Tiananmen Square. Abe visited the shrine the same day as Mao’s birthday, which I would wager is also a day that the Chinese government holds in high regards. I would also wager that he already knows going to the shrine would produce some backlash from China. All I’m trying to say is that Abe MIGHT be trying to “attack”, or capture more attention from the Chinese government on a more “sensitive” day. Now I UNDERSTAND that this could be pure coincidence, OR that he intended it as a political move.
            Whichever the case, this was not a wise move on Abe’s part. This is the thing. Now I’m not a Prime Minister, but I think more efforts for diplomatic relations would help a lot more than visiting a controversial shrine.
            I’m not the centre of the world, and I don’t know why you are(or seem to be) so angry at me.

      • JankyFosci

        That would be true if we weren’t talking about the elected leader of a major country..

  • Comebackkid13

    “If China and Japan were to go to war, and China wipes out Japan, what benefit is there to the ordinary common people? Will [we] no longer have to consumegutter oil? No longer have to breathe smog? Will be able to afford medical care? No longer have to live in wells? No longer have to enter a lottery to buy a car [to get a license plate]? No longer have limits on buying real estate property? If nothing changes, what the J8 are you getting excited for?”

    This is a very good point.

    • markus peg

      Agreed

  • stevelaudig

    Behavior is truth. “A Plague upon Humanity…The Secret Genocide of Axis Japan’s Germ Warfare Operation”.. by Daniel Barenblatt.. Something the Japanese Government continues to weasel on about. Abe is honoring genocidists who engaged in biological warfare and human experimentation. He is visiting Hitler’s tomb to cater to the 20% of the Japanese population that retains visions of emplre. Keep in mind the legal name for Japan is “The Empire of Japan”. Hardly something one can ‘apologize’ for. Japan’s goal was to ‘modernize’ the Chinese [and others] out of existence or have them be a slave population.

    • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

      What about all the other non-war criminals there who lost their lives that are buried there? Should they not be honored? We wear Poppys in the UK to honour the war dead and we have days that honour those that fought for us.

      • Alex Dương

        That’s fine. The Showa Emperor visited Yasukuni between 1945 and 1978. He boycotted the shrine after 1978 because war criminals had been enshrined. It’s really ironic to see netouyos defend Yasukuni visits when their own Emperor refuses to visit the shrine.

        • Zappa Frank

          to tell the truth is ironic that the emperor refuse to visit the shrine since he was perfectly aware of what people like Tojo were doing in his name. it was just a political decision of Mc Arthur to not judge him during the process since a lot of scholars think he was responsible as well.

          • Alex Dương

            No, I think it makes perfect sense that the Showa Emperor stopped visiting after 1978: he didn’t want to re-ignite discussion about whether he should have been considered a war criminal.

          • Zappa Frank

            yes you are probably right

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            So can you stop using that as a question as to why he doesn’t visit? as it is clearly more about him than the war criminals.

          • Alex Dương

            No, it is all about the 14 Class A war criminals. The late Showa Emperor visited Yasukuni eight times between 1945 and 1978. If you want a source stating that it was the secret enshrinement of the Class A war criminals that deterred Hirohito from visiting Yasukuni, please read this.

            http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/07/21/news/hirohito-visits-to-yasukuni-stopped-over-war-criminals/

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            I read the article.

            So is it “re-ignite discussion about whether he should have been considered a war criminal” or about the class A-war criminals? Or both? The quotes seems to indicate the latter rather than the former.

          • Alex Dương

            You don’t see the connection? Given that 14 Class A war criminals were secretly enshrined in 1978, had the late Showa Emperor continued to visit Yasukuni, he would have undoubtedly re-ignited discussion about whether he should have been tried for (Class A) war crimes.

            Such discussion would not have been rekindled had the 14 Class A war criminals not been enshrined, or if the Showa Emperor stayed away from Yasukuni afterward.

            tl;dr It’s about the 14 Class A war criminals.

    • Zappa Frank

      yasukuni shrine is not just a criminals memorial, is the house of all people and even animals who fought for the sake of japan empire. Is true the have been enshrined also some wars A criminals, and we can argue about that, but it’s not that every visit to such shrine is automatically like honoring criminals, since the shrine is for more than 2 million people. I think something similar is present also in US, and since the winner write the history we can presume that there are war criminals even there..

      • Jahar

        If my grandpa was Japanese and died serving the empire, and i visit Yakusuni, am I honoring those class A war criminals? Of course not. More people need to realize your point.

    • bujiebuke

      @stevelaudig:disqus, I completely agree with you – there’s no differences between Japan PM Abe visiting Yasukuni and German PM Angela Merkel visiting the graveyard of the SS (if such a thing exists). The atrocities committed by the Japanese were on a genocide level: experimenting with live humans without anesthesia, mass live-burials, forced enslavement, forced prostitution – the list goes on. The Japanese government denies these heinous acts because they know that few people in the west are aware of it. I’m not sure whether an apology will help, but these visits to the shrine certainly do not. In fact, I’m not sure what they accomplish at all except to fuel hate.

      -The people who down voted your comment are secret ninja assassins from Japan.

  • One for all

    The ability to troll so many people without even saying a word. Troll Level 10,000!

    • Jobjed

      Yeah but, what goes around comes around. You troll others, expect to be trolled back. Maybe fatty Kim might feel the sudden urge to launch a nuke at Japan in order to “troll” them.

  • KamikaziPilot

    Besides the convicted war criminals, isn’t this the same as any other country honoring their war dead? I mean there were countless wars of aggression waged by many other countries. I doubt the average Japanese soldier had any choice as to join any war or not. As much as I think the term “war criminal” is rather arbitrary, after all how often do war criminals come from the winning side, I think a good compromise would be to remove the convicted war criminals and then continue to pay respects to the soldiers there. I doubt that will happen though, too much nationalistic influence in politics.

    • Zappa Frank

      people once enshrined cannot be taken off according to the Shinto religion.
      I would like to point out also that class A criminals are not so for Nanjing rape, and so on..(I think those were included on class C and B criminals) but basically for having started and aggression war against china, and in particular against USA. However since the story is written by winners is arbitrary to decided who started the war, we could eventually also consider the American note of Hull as a declaration of war since the request were basically to take back all troops in japan.

      • Alex Dương

        The Hull note was not a declaration of war, and Japan wasn’t “baited” into war with the U.S. Had everything gone according to plan, Japan would never have felt so desperate as to attack the U.S.; the reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor was because by 1941, they’d been quagmired in China for four years, and they were running low on resources.

    • Alex Dương

      All it takes is for the shrine to remove the war criminals. It’s common knowledge that the war criminals’ enshrinement is what caused the late Showa Emperor to boycott the shrine after 1978, but no — honoring war criminals that presided over destruction and suffering in China and Korea is a “domestic matter.”

      • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

        That isn’t common knowledge. And you know what else isn’t common knowledge? “People once enshrined cannot be taken off according to the Shinto religion.” – So simply removing them is made more difficult than not. It is also way there was a halabaloo over Osama Bin Laden’s buriel.

        • Alex Dương

          That is common knowledge. The Wikipedia articles on (1) Hirohito and (2) Controversies surrounding Yasukuni both mention it and link to a 2006 article from the Japan Times.

          As to your claim, the Emperor of Japan is the “highest authority” in Shinto. Obviously, neither he nor his late father felt the “permanent enshrinement” claim was satisfactory.

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            Common knowledge is what everyone knows, e.g. Tomato is a fruit not a vegetable (but my time in Asia has shown that isn’t a common knowledge here).

            I have very little knowledge of Shinto and how it’s religion works. Is is like the Emperor of Japan as the “highest authority” equal to the Pope in his religion? The Christian religion has changed with some sect allowing things that were not allowed before. That is for the people who follow the religion to decide. Can the Emperor superscede a decision from a head preist at the preist’s temple? If he can, then he should do something about it otherwise he is in compliance (he has the power to change it but allows it to remain the same).

            If you know more then can you provide information on whether the bodies can be moved or not and whether the Emperor has a say in it or not?

          • Alex Dương

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine#Emperor_Sh.C5.8Dwa.27s_visits

            “Moreover, though the emperor is the highest authority of Shinto, he does
            not exercise direct control of any Shinto shrine including Yasukuni.
            However, Yasukuni ideology is clearly in favour of the pre-war
            arrangement in which the emperor was the official head of Shinto.”

            Since 2006, we’ve known the reason why the late Showa Emperor boycotted Yasukuni: the enshrinement of 14 Class A war criminals. And yet, Yasukuni has refused to remove them, claiming that under Shinto, they can’t be removed.

            That’s nonsense. Religious doctrines change. Yasukuni has implicitly stated that given a choice between having the Emperor visit regularly and enshrining Class A war criminals, they prefer to have Class A war criminals enshrined. That’s fine for them, a private organization, but when current Prime Ministers visit this private organization, gee, it really plays into Chinese and Korean claims that Japan isn’t repentant, doesn’t it?

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            “That’s nonsense. Religious doctrines change.” – Yes, they change for self interest. If the religion is true to its God, it shouldn’t change. But that’s another whole arguement really.

          • Alex Dương

            So is all Christianity just fake to you now, since they don’t crusade anymore?

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            It was fake then during the crusades. By that time, it changed so much, it wasn’t the religion founded by Jesus. Which proves my point about something changed for self interest.

          • Alex Dương

            Fair enough, but then what you’re saying is that almost every major religion now is fake because all have changed their doctrines for self-interest at certain points throughout their histories. Enshrining Class A war criminals isn’t “true” to Shinto, either, because the Head Priest of Yasukuni in 1966, Tsukuba Fujimaro, refused to enshrine them, and upon discovering that they had been secretly enshrined, the late Showa Emperor, nominally the highest authority of Shinto, boycotted Yasukuni.

          • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

            “Fair enough, but then what you’re saying is that almost every major religion now is fake because all have changed their doctrines for self-interest at certain points throughout their histories.” – That is the case. Same happens to systems we use to govern ourselves. Religion was just another method of governance.

            My personal view is this (as I lack knowledge on the shinto religion and from your comments, i could be wrong but, you don’t seem to know much more than I), if the bodies can be moved, then they should – regarding their faith. It will firstly make any future visit to the shrine prevent any piss up by Korea and China. Secondly, if it is allowed and not done, then Korea and China have the right to make their displeasure known as it supports their view that Japan doesn’t accept their past responsibility. Future PM’s should stop visiting full stop, though I see these visits more as to pleasing their right wing voters rather than international considerations.

          • Alex Dương

            I share your personal view.

          • Zappa Frank

            seems, not sure since I am an ignorant too, that the Shinto faith does not allow to remove people from the shrine, not sure since there are apparently some rites that should allow this…
            Besides seems there are no bodies but just names.
            Reading here and there since in Japan there is a separation between religion and state, the state cannot force the priests to do something they do not want.

    • Kai

      At this point, there’s more to it than just the conflation of honoring the war dead and honoring convicted war criminals.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine

      The idea of separating the war criminals has also been advanced before inside (and outside) of Japan, but hasn’t been achieved for a variety of reasons that arguably may or may not be excuses for lack of political will (or as you suspect, nationalistic influence in politics).

  • PD

    Yakushumi is a religious structure been there long before any WW. True, it houses WW2 war criminals. Even foreigners visit there.

  • chris hansen

    Plus…why are the CPC so pissed off anyways? Mao thanked the Japanese for invading China to teach the Chinese a lesson about imperialism and unity. Truthfully speaking CPC did diddly squat when the 2nd Sino-Japanese War broke out.

    • SzMach5

      The CPC usually uses Japan as a scapegoat whenever something goes wrong inside China, so you might see some funny behaviors.
      Do you actually believe Mao when he said that? Did you know that if Japan had not invaded China, the Chinese KMT possibly would have won over the Communists during the Chinese Civil War? That is why Mao thanked the Japanese.

      • Irvin

        It’s true, in war there are opportunities, and mao was an opportunist. With out the war mao and PNC could never be.

  • Alex Dương

    If there’s nothing wrong about it, how come the late Showa Emperor stopped visiting Yasukuni after 1978? Why has his son, the Akihito Emperor, maintained the boycott?

  • Alex Dương

    So we should expect to see the Akihito Emperor visit Yasukuni some time soon, right?

  • Alex Dương

    If you think there’s no big deal with visiting Yasukuni, then tell me why no Japanese Emperor has visited the shrine since 1978?

  • You know what? we should all go Pol Pot on ourselves and make mother earth a favor by giving all of our blood to her and never coming back

    • David

      Except Pol Pot didn’t do it to himself, he did it to his own people. Maybe you mean go “Jones town”; except while the people killed themselves, Reverend Jones had to be ‘helped’ into the afterlife by his personal guards.also. for some reason the leaders are usually happy for the people to go meet their maker but are somehow reluctant themselves. lol

  • Kai

    To be fair, I would say the vast majority of people everywhere don’t know the particulars of aid rendered to China by the Japanese, just like most people both inside and outside of China don’t know Mao waived war reparations. Only people who have taken more than a cursory interest in that topic of history know this. The Chinese people who don’t know Japan has gave assistance after the war also likely don’t know Mao waived war reparations (which was in the 1970s btw, many years after the end of the war).

  • Kai

    Yes, that is stupid. However, to be fair, that’s not what it is. It’s more about holding the current generation responsible for acknowledging, respecting, and being sensitive to the crimes committed by past generations, as well as how people, societies, and countries have been irreversibly shaped to their respective benefit or cost by that past. There are of course irrational people who literally blame descendents for what their forefathers did, but rationally, people only get upset insofar as descendents today whitewash, revise, or deny past history and its impact on the present state of things.

  • 白色纯棉小裤裤

    German should honour Hitler and other “war heros” died for the country during WWII.

  • Irvin

    They are just men following orders said Xavier.

    All my life have been in the mercy of men just following orders, never again, said Magneto.

    Somehow this article reminds me of this scene.

  • Alex Dương

    First, I really hope you aren’t an English teacher in China, because you misspelled Emperor twice. That aside, where did I mention “Empire of Japan” in my reply to you?

    *crickets*

    Oh, that’s right; I never made any mention of the “Empire of Japan.” I asked you why no Japanese Emperor has visited Yasukuni since 1978, which you didn’t answer. And jeez, if you know Japan has a figurehead constitutional monarch with the title “Emperor of Japan,” what was the point of acting like an idiot and giving me a lecture about how the Empire of Japan hasn’t existed since 1945?

  • Alex Dương

    Then don’t comment.

    • Kiwi

      If I were the emperor I’d visit the shrine just to piss you off

      • Alex Dương

        Thankfully, the Emperor of Japan isn’t a petty little netouyo.

  • Cleo

    wow. no wonder the staff at the Propaganda Department work long hours – I’m impressed by the grandma anecdote about rapists becoming kindly and elevating the standard of living post-rape – because rape victims work up such a big appetite from being raped as confirmed by Piepel (highly recommended Holocaust fiction).

    • Kai

      Er, unhelpful conflation. The point of that Chinese netizen’s post was that Japanese occupation came with certain positive byproducts. It’s not like he pretended shit didn’t happen, just that some good “practical” things did, for which there is no reason to deny because the juxtaposition could be an important lesson itself. Recognizing that your enemy is good at certain things is often a humble recognition of one’s own shortcomings, and thus an impetus for change and improvement.

      Also, I believe the Japanese forces that invaded the Northeast and set up Manchukuo were the more disciplined forces who weren’t as given to rape, pillaging, and war abuses like the latter forces such as those that went on to rape Nanjing. That a Japanese soldier there was executed for rape is a testament to that, but of course not an excuse for the rape itself or the immorality of the invasion overall. Still, there’s no point in not giving credit where it is due.

      • KamikaziPilot

        I’m not sure you’re familiar with this poster “Cleo” but I’ve seen his/her posts on this and a couple other websites I used to frequent going back several years. After a while I’ve come to the conclusion that Cleo has legitimate mental health issues. Cleo seems to be obsessed with certain issues including, Japanese soldiers raping babies, German WWII atrocities, Prince Akihito using satellites to spy on Queen Elizabeth on her toilet (WTF?), and various other things I can’t remember right now. He/she seems to be a deluded, although well-read hyper anti-Japanese nutcase. Just don’t expect a reasonable response from Cleo.

        • Kai

          Oh yeah, I kinda remember that too. Yikes.

  • JankyFosci

    I’m pretty sure most of the ESL teachers commenting on this site in fact do NOT know considering they’re praising Japan on “aiding” China in WW2.

    • David

      First,they are not praising Japan as “helping China” during WW II. They acknowledge the historical fact that the Japanese did a tremendous amount of infrastructure building and modernization in the areas it controlled (for their own benefit during the war of course) which resulted in some incidental benefit to some Chinese that was lost after the Japanese were defeated. Are you unaware of these facts? Second, what makes you think the people making these accurate remarks are ESL teachers (which you say in a condescending manner)? Some are obviously Chinese nationals by the comments (talking about how their grandfather told him this).

      • JankyFosci

        I would call that praising. Call a spade a spade buddy and try to learn about something called context. What on earth does “acknowledging” that the Japanese did some infrastructure building in China have to do with an article on the Japanese PM visiting a shrine full of war criminals? If it’s not praising it’s excusing and deflecting, all of which are just as pathetic (and expected for this site). Can you at least admit that? Probably not.

        What makes me think the people making these remarks are ESL teachers? Well it’s called following this site for years. It’s no secret most regulars here are bitter, China-hating ESL teachers or other expats in shitty jobs who bitch about China all day and twist any news story on this site to bitch more about China. Try to be realistic here.

        • David

          When you discuss history, to leave out some facts because they do not convey the message you want or they make the history “complicated”, is being disingenuous and it is bad history. I am a historian, so no, to me mentioning facts are not a way to deflect, or excuse (history does not need excuses, it just is) it is a way to explain to people a fuller picture of life. History is not simple (Japan attacked Indonesia, Korea, China, the U.S. so Japan is bad) and when you try to reduce it to simple actions and motivations by removing some of the facts you are not being a good custodian of the truth.

          As for context, like I said, the initial comment was obviously from a Chinese national because he talks about how he is from the Northeast and was told this by his grandmother. Another comment basically said the same thing. Both were written in Chinese on the original website, so to think they are CS ESL teachers is not a logical stretch of the imagination. Also, most people on CS do not hate China, why would they spend their time here if they did? If you have been here so long (maybe you have changed your name because your current one does not look familiar) you know the purpose of CS is to let people share their opinions openly, whether you agree with them or not. It is called a free exchange of ideas, which even the ESL teachers you seem to hate have.

          • JankyFosci

            And what do the “facts” that the Japanese built some infrastructure in China have to do with a Japanese PM pissing off all of Asia by visiting a shrine that worships war criminals? Please explain that to me. How does that add to the discussion for either side? I’m still waiting. It You wrote a lot but have not said anything of substance yet. History is not complicated anymore by including those facts in THIS discussion because we’re not discussing whether China benefited from Japanese rule. This is an article on a shrine for war criminals if you’ve forgotten.

            And you’ve clearly not spent enough time on this site if you think this site isn’t full of people who hate China. Why do they spend their time on this site? Possibly because their miserable lives are empty so they need to bitch and whine on this site to cure their boredom. Who knows? No more needs to be said if you think otherwise.

            PS I did not say we should not have free speech on this site btw. Where did I say that? Oh wait I didn’t. I’m merely pointing out that much of the readership here IS biased against China.

          • David

            If you do not understand how it relates to this subject than stop your obnoxious comments and simply ask and maybe I will explain it to you. However, you have shown no desire to expand your mind beyond your narrow understanding, so I doubt you really want a discussion. You seem to simply want to rant. This is not an article about a shrine to war criminals, it is an article about a Prime minister visiting a controversial shrine to war dead where some war criminals have been entombed and the reaction of the Chinese netizens. My comments and those of the people above have to do with some of the comments (reactions) Chinese citizens have made. Now which part of that do you not understand?

          • Jahar

            You are obviously a biased Japan hater as well if you really believe people go to the shrine to “worship war criminals”. there are something like 70 war criminals enshrined there. And 1.2 million other people. It’s a memorial. You mean to say people go there to worship the other 70, like gods? No one goes there to remember the others that died? Or to think about the worst war in the history of the world?

          • JankyFosci

            UH… they could’ve taken the names of the war criminals off the shrine. Abe could’ve explained that he was going there to honour those fallen but not the war criminals but he doesn’t. Surely, years of half of Asia complaining to Japan about it MUST’VE given them some sort of ideas. Imagine if the Germans visited a memorial that honoured Hitler and millions of other German soldiers. You would hear worldwide outcry about that. YOU are the biased one here if you can’t see that.

          • Jahar

            You know they can’t take the names off, right? And he did explain why he went there. And half of Asia complaining about it is why he can’t not go. He can’t have China or Korea telling him what to do.

          • JankyFosci

            Actually they can. In fact a LDP member proposed moving them to another site in 2005. It was only blocked by the Japanese religious and nationalists.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine#Removal_of_the_names

            Abe in fact did not explain that he was not honouring the war criminals by his visit. He gives reasons for why he was visititing but he does NOT exclude the war criminals from this visit despite fully knowing this would calm tensions in the area.

            Again, imagine if the chancellor of Germany did the same thing with Hitler in a shrine honouring the German dead. Obviously Germans have enough sense to explain themselves properly if they were to have such a shrine at all.

          • Jahar

            So then, they can’t.

          • Jahar

            Other than the fact that going there to honor war criminals is about the most ridiculous thing imaginable? If it were me, I wouldn’t deny doing it either. There are lots of ridiculous things I don’t deny, because it’s a waste of breath, and it’s, well, ridiculous. For example, you didn’t deny that you are honoring war criminals either. Also, the’s the PM. he doesn’t argue with the media.

            As for the Hitler thing, you know quite well that there is a huge difference between what he did and what the handful of criminals enshrined there were guilty of.

          • JankyFosci

            If it’s ridiculous why not deny it? Previous Japanese PMs have refused to even visit the shrine for that reason. If Abe is going to buck the trend he should at least explain himself. Of course you wouldn’t deny it because you obviously sound like an idiot as well but he’s the Japanese PM and should know a little bit about politics. Shouldn’t take a German to be sensible.

            And actually you’re right human experimentation performed by some of the Japanese war criminals is arguably actually a little bit worse than burning Jews to death.

          • Jahar

            Yeah. because the Germans didn’t do any experimentation on the jews.
            Hitler can take the credit for all of that. he one of the worst mass murderers in the history of the world. Tell me, who on that list of war criminals is worse?

            Anyway, PMs have been visiting that shrine for 10 or so years now. And you know as well as I do, the more China cries about it, the harder it is for them to stop going. It would look like they are giving in to China, and so they can’t. he has to go or look weak. If China wants it to stop, they should let it go. It won’t be a show of strength to the voters and right wingers anymore, and he won’t have to go.
            no one’s ever going to go to a memorial and say, “I’m not here to pay homage to the criminals.” And just the fact that someone thinks it’s necessary is insulting.

          • JankyFosci

            1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

            2) Actually as I’ve said. Many Japanese PMs have been wiser and not visited the shrine due to complaints from the rest of Asia and/or their conscience so they were perfectly fine with looking “weak” (I’d say sensible).

            So I’m still waiting for your thoughts on my analogy. If the German chancellor started visiting a shrine that honoured German soldiers AND Hitler and his SS, who have experimented on and killed countless civilians JUST LIKE the Japanese war criminals (as you are admitting right now), do you think it would be stupid and unnecessary for the Germans to explain they’re not honouring Hitler but just all the other soldiers? Yes or no? Let’s say Jewish advocacy groups starting attacking the chancellor for it as well US politicians do you think the German chancellor would be stupid and stubborn enough to refuse to say that she’s not honouring Hitler? Be honest.

          • Jahar

            Well, there is no one of Hitler’s equivalent in the Japanese one, but of course no one would tolerate it. But also, if there were proven to be a war criminal buried in Arlington cemetery, or one with his name written on the Vietnam memorial (dont know the name), you think that would stop the president of the US from going?

            Christ look at what Mao did here, and half the country worships him.

            Also, I’m not admitting nor denying anything about Japanese experimenting. I don’t know where you got that. This is not a subject i addressed. I don’t really know anything about it.

          • Kai

            The Wikipedia page on this issue has enough about how they CAN take the names off so I won’t go into that. It ultimately boils down to there not being enough will, political or otherwise, to do so.

            Of course he shouldn’t have China or Korea “telling him what to do”, but he CAN be sensitive to how his actions will be perceived by China or Korea. He’s a politician, a government representative, responsible for foreign diplomacy. I believe he knows how his actions are perceived by others, but he has consciously chosen to value the perceptions of some over others. That’s normal, just like China doing shit that makes no sense to foreigners but was designed for domestic audiences. He’s made his choice and he’ll have to accept the consequences. He feels these consequences are outweighed by the benefits of his choice. That’s fine. That’s how the world works.

          • Jahar

            I’ve read it before. It said quite clearly they couldn’t. And it doesn’t get into the details of why the priests wouldn’t. or couldn’t do it.which i have read about before.

          • Kai

            The one method which is suggested as theologically valid is to abolish the entire enshrinement, then repeat the entire enshrinement rite of kami since the Boshin War without including the A class war criminals. Some argue that selective abolishment of enshrinement is technically possible, as there are several precedents of selective de-enshrinement in the Tokugawa era. The Shinto processes of bunrei and kanjō exist specifically to remove a kami from its shrine and re-enshrine it elsewhere, but typically leave the kami at the originating shrine intact and unchanged.

            Just one example from Wikipedia.

            The most often given reason for why the priests wouldn’t is in Wikipedia as well. They claim freedom of religion (separation of church and state). This is complicated by the open question of the ties and influence between the shrine/priests and government organs/members.

            Chairmen of the organization have usually been members of the governing Liberal Democratic party and the organization is regarded as the informal pipeline between the LDP (hence the government) and the Yasukuni Shrine. In 1962 Okinori Kaya, a known LDP hawk and a convicted class A criminal in the Tokyo Trials was appointed chairman. The organization is regarded as having strong influence over the political overtones of the Yasukuni Shrine.

            Remember also that the war criminals isn’t the only thing that makes the Yasukuni Shrine controversial. It isn’t just outsiders who have politicized it, the Shrine itself has politicized itself with its own actions.

            I think the material on Wikipedia does a fairly good job of outlining the issues of the matter.

          • Jahar

            Sorry I just went to the part the other guy linked to. yeah that’s what i read before. Anyway, yeah, it’s not gonna happen. I can’t imagine a politician caring what outsiders think about it enough to get in a huge fight with the church. I also think as time passes more and more people just don’t care what they did.

          • JankyFosci

            And what do the “facts” that the Japanese built some infrastructure in China have to do with a Japanese PM pissing off all of Asia by visiting a shrine that worships war criminals? Please explain that to me. How does that add to the discussion for either side? I’m still waiting. It You wrote a lot but have not said anything of substance yet. History is not complicated anymore by including those facts in THIS discussion because we’re not discussing whether China benefited from Japanese rule. This is an article on a shrine for war criminals if you’ve forgotten.

            And you’ve clearly not spent enough time on this site if you think this site isn’t full of people who hate China. Why do they spend their time on this site? Possibly because their miserable lives are empty so they need to bitch and whine on this site to cure their boredom. Who knows? No more needs to be said if you think otherwise.

            PS I did not say we should not have free speech on this site btw. Where did I say that? Oh wait I didn’t. I’m merely pointing out that much of the readership here IS biased against China.

          • JankyFosci

            And what do the “facts” that the Japanese built some infrastructure in China have to do with a Japanese PM pissing off all of Asia by visiting a shrine that worships war criminals? Please explain that to me. How does that add to the discussion for either side? I’m still waiting. It You wrote a lot but have not said anything of substance yet. History is not complicated anymore by including those facts in THIS discussion because we’re not discussing whether China benefited from Japanese rule. This is an article on a shrine for war criminals if you’ve forgotten.

            And you’ve clearly not spent enough time on this site if you think this site isn’t full of people who hate China. Why do they spend their time on this site? Possibly because their miserable lives are empty so they need to bitch and whine on this site to cure their boredom. Who knows? No more needs to be said if you think otherwise.

            PS I did not say we should not have free speech on this site btw. Where did I say that? Oh wait I didn’t. I’m merely pointing out that much of the readership here IS biased against China.

  • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

    Would be funny if China stop brainwashing their population into believing Mao is good/god and actually tell their people like it really was.

  • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

    An interesting point is that former emperor Hirohito stopped going as soon as the shrine brought in the war criminals, and his son Akihito has maintained that policy.

    ——————————

    Didn’t Hirohito know what was done in his name? Or am I thinking of the wrong emperor?

    Didn’t Tojo take the blame for the whole Japanese aggression and was even coached into giving his lines in the court?

    • Alex Dương

      Yes, he did know. That’s arguably why the enshrinement of 14 Class A war criminals deterred him from ever visiting Yasukuni again: he didn’t want to rekindle debate on his own culpability for Japanese war crimes.

  • Boris_Da_Bengal_Tiger

    Just as Japan modernised China for their own benefit, so will have China. But the ones who benefit the most are those in power, in Xinjiang and Tibet, the Han Chinese benefit more than the locals.

  • Kai

    Knock it off. Trolling each other with flippancy and ad hominems is not a substitute for sincerely entertaining each other’s arguments.

  • Jobjed

    I’m pretty sure that EVERY person that has ever gone to war was somebody’s child.

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