Li Tianyi Defense Seeks Retrial, Online Comments Manipulated

Li Tianyi (aka Li Guanfeng).

The following article on popular Chinese web portal NetEase is notable for being the most commented article of the day, and for having over 1.1m comment participants at time of translation, a suspiciously high amount many times higher than the articles that are usually NetEase’s “most highly discussed”.

The lengthy article reports that Li Tianyi’s defense are petitioning for a retrial but also includes what the reporter saw on surveillance footage retrieved from the night of the alleged gang-rape and viewed by the court.

The comments sections of past NetEase articles reporting on Li Tianyi’s gang-rape case have been overwhelmingly against him and his family with the most popular comments receiving tens of thousands of upvotes from NetEase netizens and readers.

At time of publishing, the number of comment participants has dropped, indicating that at least some comment participants have been discounted, possibly for artificially manipulating upvotes to make certain comments appear as the “most popular” at the top of the comments section of NetEase…

From NetEase:

Lawyer for Li Tianyi Submits Application for Retrial, Video Evidence Exposed

September 11th, the legal consultant to the Li family Lan He revealed to this reporter that the defense attorney for Li X submitted an “Application for Retrial” on September 11th to the Haidian District Court, as well as arguments from the 12 domestic criminal procedure, legal theory, and forensic exports last Saturday, requesting a second trial as well and petitioning for 6 things including having the victim and expert witnesses appear in court, crime scene investigation, and the exclusion of illegal evidence.

Previously, as a result of the trial being not open to the public, the outside world knew very little of the specifics of the court hearing. Recently, this reporter viewed the video evidence of 4 key locations involved in this case through relevant channels.

These 4 location videos were recording of the locations where the defendant was at on the night of the incident: the elevator entrance of the Global Nightclub and bar area, Jindingxuan Hotel lobby, outside the Jingguoao Hotel entrance, and video surveillance of the Hubei Building entrance lobby, elevators, and the hallway outside the hotel room. The content [of these videos] are relevant to several key disputes in this case.

Previously, one of the focal points in in the dispute over whether or not Li X’s actions constitute rape is whether or not Li Mo had used beatings, coercion, or similar violent acts against the victim Yang X on the night of the incident. The videos that have been made public may contribute towards clarifying several key details.

From the parts of the video that this reporter viewed, the image quality is relatively clear, and the time of the recordings is visible at the top of the screen. Amongst them, the video at Jindingxuan is in color. The sequence of people and events is coherent. However this reporter was unable to confirm from authorities whether or not [the videos] have been previously edited.

This paper used multiple methods to contact both the prosecuting and defense lawyers in this case, seeking confirmation of the authenticity of the material in these videos, as well as whether or not these videos have been shown and cross-examined during trial. Tian Canjun, the attorney for the victim Yang X, did not answer calls or return text messages.

Li Zaike, the defense attorney for another defendant Da Wei [big/older Wei], however disclosed that during the conference for a second trial, the court had specifically arranged 3 days of time for the viewing of the video evidence, amongst which include surveillance video of the key location of the crime as well as pre-trial video of the defendant, so “it wasn’t necessary to show them in court because they had been viewed before, and questions were listed and submitted to the court after the view.” However, he refused to comment on the videos this reporter had seen. He Lan, the legal consultant for the Li family, however indicated that the video evidence of the key locations during the crime had already been authenticated by the time of the trial.

Scene 1: Yang X Followed Li X in Leaving Jindingxuan

The story as unanimously agreed upon by both the prosecution and defense as well as the nightclub involved in the case is that at 12:30am on the day of the incident February 17, Li X drove a white Mercedes-Benz and another defendant elder Wei drove an [Audi] Q7 in arriving at Global Nightclub. Those who also came to the bar that day were Li X’s friend from Hebei Li X, older Wei’s younger brother young Wei, Zhang X, as well as the only adult in this case male Wang X. Victim Yang was also at the bar at the time.

The aforementioned videos this paper’s reporter saw show that around 3:36am in the early morning, Yang X had her right arm wrapped around the nightclub supervisor Zhang X wearing black, the two of them following [defendants] Zhang X and Wang X, the 4 of them walking towards the nightclub’s exit (elder Wei and young Wei were reportedly already outside the nightclub doors starting the cars). Here, Yang X appeared to be unsteady as she walked, appearing to be drunk. Close to her, Li X appeared to make an angry gesture. (According to Li X’s later statements, they were drunk at the time, and they had left the bar arm in arm)

Around 4:21am in the early morning, a total of 8 people including the 5 defendants as well as Yang X wearing black with high heels, nightclub supervisor Zhang X, and Li X’s friend Li X appeared in the lobby of Shijijinyan Jindingxuan Hotel and one after another sat down in a ring-shaped seat, where Yang X immediately put her head down on the table.

At 4:30am, Yang X rose and left, walked out of Jindingxuan (later known to have gone to use the restroom in the KFC next door). At 4:36am, Yang X returned to Jindingxuan and put her head down at a small rectangular table several tables away from Li X’s party. 2 minutes later, she raised her head and waved, asked wait staff for a cup of water, and then in turn appeared to comb her hair and rummage through her purse.

At 4:43am in the early morning, Li X and Wang X had an argument with a male-female couple at an adjacent table, with the male throwing chair over and Wang X also throwing a chair in return. The tall and large Li X rose and joined in, with both sides engaging in a physical altercation, later separated by the hotel’s security. The conflict lasted about 3 minutes.

When the fight first broke out, Yang X took a drink from the cup of water in front of her. When both sides were engaged in physical altercation, Yang X was seated nearby and had turned her head to watch the two sides fighting. Between this, she had tidied her hair multiple times with her hands.

4:46am, Li X took the lead in leaving Jindingxuan, with the other 4 defendants and the nightclub supervisor Zhang leaving behind him. Yang X also picked up her purse, stood up, and was the last amongst this group of people to leave Jindingxuan.

(What all the parties agree upon is that after leaving Jindingxuan, this party of 8 people arrived at the Renjishanzhuang underground garage where Li X lives. There is no video evidence for what happened at this place. According to provided testimony, nightclub supervisor Zhang X left the underground garage in the car of the Li X from Hebei [Li Tianyi’s friend]. The 5 defendants and Yang X left as passengers in the elder Wei’s [Audi] Q7.

Scene 2: Li X’s hand slowly lifted up

Video shows that at past 5am in the early morning, this [Audi] Q7 appeared at the entrance of the Haidian district Jinguoao Hotel, where the older Wei and [defendant] Zhang X got off and walked into the hotel lobby (later known to go to the front desk to get rooms). Li X and Wang X also got off the car, walked around near the [Audi] Q7, while the younger Wei and Yang X were not seen getting out of the car. Afterward, Li X opened a car door once and then closed it. Around 5:20am in the early morning, the younger Wei also got out of the car and along with Li X and Wang X stood together chatting, while Yang X should be the only person left in the car. (All parties agree that afterward, the elder Wei and Zhang X who had entered Jinguoao Hotel to check out the rooms had felt that the hotel’s rooms were not ideal, so the entire party got back into the [Audi] Q7 and left.)

The elder Wei’s [Audi] Q7 left Jinguoao Hotel at 5:20am. At 5:58am, [defendant] Zhang X and the elder Wei one after another appeared in the lobby of the Hubei Building Hotel. At 5:59am, Li X, Wang X, and [victim] Yang X appeared together in the hotel lobby’s video. Yang X was walking between Li X and Wang X, the three of them entering the lobby through the Hubei Building’s rotating doors, with the younger Wei following behind. In this video lasting less than a minute, Yang X appeared to wrap her right hand/arm around Li X’s left elbow.

Soon after, Li X, Wang X, Yang X, and the younger Wei entered the Hubei Building elevator. The elevator surveillance video shows Yang X grabbing Li X’s hand as well as putting it on Li X’s abdomen. While in the elevator, Li X slowly lifted up his right hand once and then slowly placed it on Yang X’s hand.

Afterward, the surveillance footage of the hotel’s hallway shows that at 7:26am in the early morning, a group of people came out of a hotel room and entered the elevator one by one. Around 7:29am, Li X’s party left the hotel. The recording shows that Yang X left while being supported by Wang X.

These videos were strung together in a series, without any obvious traces of being edited.

The wrestling/disputes revolving around the video evidence

However, with regards to the previous circumstances as well as how to ultimately determine [these videos’s] mutual corroboration and cause-and-effect with the chain of evidence, remains to be determined by the court.

The description of the events in this case as obtained by this paper’s reporter from the prosecution’s charges is: 2013 February 17 around 5am, after the 5 defendants Li X, Wang X, the elder Wei, Zhang X, and the younger Wei consumed alcohol in a private room of a Haidian district nightclub with the victim Yang X (female, 23 years old at time of crime), they forcibly took her to Room 8915 at the Hubei Building, “using violent beatings to have sexual relations with Yang X one after another, causing bruises and light injuries to her left eyelid, nose, temple, and cheek.”

However, the interpretation of the aforementioned videos by Li X’s lawyer Chen Shu is that everything show in the video does not indicate that Yang X was coerced to go to the scene of the incident/crime, nor has it been found that Li X had beaten or used other violence against Yang X.

“From these 4 surveillance videos as well as numerous witness testimony, semen DNA analysis and crime scene investigation results, as well as several other objective witness testimony, we believe if this case is judged using objective material evidence and the testimony of witnesses without a vital interest [who do not stand to gain or lose], it would definitely be not guilty.” Chen Shu claims he has already seized a “not guilty chain of evidence”.

This paper’s reporter attempted to reach the victim Yang X’s attorney, Tian Canjun, using multiple methods including telephone and text message, attempting to get a comment from him regarding the aforementioned video evidence, but his phone went unanswered nor did he return text messages.

Tian Canjun previously told this paper’s reporter that Li X had beaten Yang X at the time of the crime. He had also repeatedly stressed that this case is a case involving 5 defendants committing a crime together, and as a result, “even if only one person committed rape and the other people only participated, for example by inviting the victim over or beating, threatening, coercing, etc. the victim, these other people would all also be convicted of rape.”

The elder Wei’s lawyer, Li Zaike, on condition that this paper’s reporter not make public the source of the videos, explicitly expressed no comment with regards to the videos whose sources are unknown.

Li Zaike previously described during an interview with this paper’s reporter that after learning in the Jishanzhuang underground garage that the bar’s supervisor Zhang X had already left, Yang X changed her mind and refused to have sexual relations with Li X, “so Li X thrashed Yang X multiple times, hitting her rather severely, and had also hit her inside the Hubei Building elevator.”

The latest development in this case was that at 2pm on the afternoon of September 7th, the lawyers of the Li Family invited 12 criminal law experts and senior lawyers to provide a one-time discussion and consultation of this case, providing the case and video evidence to the experts to discuss and analyze. […]

The meeting that day lasted 4.5 hours. Meng Ge also attended, and made a statement regarding the case as a guardian. When the experts and lawyers expressed their opinion about the case, Meng Ge left the meeting room to [avoid influencing the discussions], only returning after the meeting was about to end.

After viewing the video evidence and thumbing through the case evidence, several experts participating in the meeting believe that “in light of there being some flaws in [this case’s] procedure, [they] recommend Li X’s lawyer request another trial and petition for the victim Yang X and forensic witnesses to appear in court in order to determine the truth.

Participating attorney Tian Wenchang expressed that a conviction of rape ultimately depends on whether or not a woman’s consent was violated, while use of violence and violating a woman’s consent have a cause and effect relationship, “Yang X’s gait and look in the video recordings, these objective evidence still do not eliminate the existence of rape, nor do they prove the existence of rape. I think the videos currently do not prove anything, are unable to prove that there wasn’t use of violence as well as unable to prove the existence of violence.”

Participating attorney Xu Lanting claims the determination of rape mainly looks at whether or not a woman’s consent was violated, and with regards to certain key points in this case, for example, “whether or not sexual relations occurred, who had sexual relations? Whether they were drunk? Whether or not there was acts of violence, and if there were, did it happen before, during, or after, and for what reason the beatings occurred? What happened inside the room? No matter what happened earlier, did any beating occur in the room… These all need to be figured out.”

“There are indeed things to dispute in this case, and relevant evidence still needs to be investigated,” expressed Xu Lanting.

Comments from NetEase:

冬骅数位音讯 [网易北京市网友]:

Miss Yang [or Prostitute Yang], was it satisfying?
So you setup Li Tianyi and after unsuccessfully trying to extort and blackmail him, you call the police and demand compensation, because you’ll be able to get money all the same?
Not bad, not bad, you’ve found a quick road to riches for the millions of prostitutes out there!
Those who support executing Miss Yang by firing squad, ding this up!

[Note: Over 470k upvotes at time of translation, comment has been since been removed from the “popular comments” section.]

冬骅数位音讯 [网易湖北省咸宁市网友]: (Note: This is the same commenter as the first comment)

The Li Tianyi case to this day can already be clearly understood using an ordinary person’s intelligence. An adult prostitute accompanied 5 minor children in drinking alcohol in a bar/nightclub as arranged by the bar/nightclub’s management. Afterward, the nighclub’s management unilaterally introduced and recommended the female surnamed Yang to the 5 minors to provide sexual services. After the price for the prostitution was discussed and agreed upon, this female accompanied by the nightclub management escorted the 5 minors together to get a hotel room to provide them and collect payment for sexual services. The next day, the nightclub’s employees and the female surnamed Yang extorted Li Tianyi according to plan. When they were unsuccessful in extorting 500k yuan, they framed the 5 minors for rape, causing the 5 minors to be arrested.
It can be seen that this is a case of prostitution + extortion. The group of 5 including Li X had hired a prostitute and were extorted. In this case, rape is a false proposition and the violation of a female’s consent is nonsense, and the occurrence of sexual relations was unilaterally initiated by the female surnamed Yang and the nightclub’s management, and the female surnamed Yang was the initiator of sexual relations. Even if in the course of providing sexual services a dispute arises regarding payment for the prostitution, it is still a conflict between the sex-worker and the john and does not affect the essential nature of this case being that of prostitution. This is just like you buying an air conditioner and having an argument with the manufacturer’s customer service for a problem after the purchase, which does not signify that the air conditioner has become something you stole.
Obviously, in this case of prostitution and extortion, the true criminal is this sex-selling woman and the nightclub’s management, with their crimes including prostitution, organizing prostitution, extortion and blackmail, and false accusations/framing people. Whereas the problem of the 5 minors was in visiting/hiring a prostitute.
However, what’s strange is that the police arrested the 5 minors but didn’t go investigate the real criminals—-the female prostitute and the nightclub’s management. Not only were they not investigated, they even became a party that was protected. Beijing’s public security authorities is currently assisting them in punishing those 5 children and families who were unwilling to be extorted, assisting them in getting the 500k yuan of extorted ill-gotten wealth, unbelievable! The public security authorities and especially the police who are supposed to undertake the responsibility of cracking down on prostitution and extortion have instead become a protective umbrella for the female prostitute, listening only to the female prostitute. Anyone who requests that the question of prostitution be investigated, they immediately deny it: “We do not have plans to investigate the question of prostitution”, as if they feared the female prostitute getting angry if they denied it too slowly. So how could Beijing not become the heaven for prostitutes?
It can be said that this case has been handled extremely poorly, not only punishing people who should not have been punished in the first place, but also giving society an extremely bad signal in protecting and providing preferential treatment to the female prostitute, the being that there is no risk in prostitution, that one can commit extortion through prostitution, that extortion through prostitution enjoys protection, that prostitution is very honorable, that whores are noble, and sex-workers are high level people. This makes a social environment that is already degenerate even worse, severely misleading the values of young females.
Beijing’s public security authorities and departments should quickly correct their error, return themselves to the duty of cracking down on prostitution and extortion, immediate release the minors who have already been mistakenly detained for an excessive period of time, immediately investigate and deal with the people engaged in prostitution, extortion, and framing, give society a responsible result, and not let Beijing become a heaven for prostitutes.

[Note: Over 170k upvotes at time of translation, comment has been since been removed from the “popular comments” section.]

网易广东省广州市手机网友 ip:113.119.*.*:

For each ding, Li X eats a bullet.

[Note: Over 150k upvotes at time of translation.]

冬骅数位音讯 [网易湖北省咸宁市网友]: (Note: This is the same commenter as the first comment)

According to information exposed on the internet, this Miss Yang’s alias is Yang Jia. Her real name is Yang Xiaohua, a peasant from Hebei Yangyuan county Dongjingji town, and has worked as a hostess/prostitute in a KTV in the past.
Additionally, according to information exposed by a Zhejiang netizen, Miss Yang used to be a hostess/prostitute at a KTV in Zhejiang province Yueqing city, and has reported rapes multiple times, involving similar methods. When reporting a case in 2009, it was also a gang-rape, demanding over 100,000 yuan, afterwards leaving Yueqing for Beijing where she resumed her old trade [as prostitute or conman].
I hope netizens will spread the information they know about this person, to expose this person’s true face as someone who uses prostitution to commit extortion.

Miss Yang, quickly come out to prostitute yourself again. Don’t let your “married vagina” black fungus go to waste!

[Note: Over 90k upvotes at time of translation, comment has been since been removed from the “popular comments” section.]

我是处长我怕谁 [网易江西省南昌市手机网友]:

Kill Tianyi, bring justice to the world.

[Note: Over 50k upvotes at time of translation.]

网易北京市手机网友 ip:219.141.*.*:

Speechless. Everyone knows what kind of trash Li Tianyi is.

关公哥 [网易江苏省南京市手机网友]:

This lawyer is going to be rich.

网易浙江省台州市网友 ip:115.201.*.*:

Video that is taken out of context can’t prove anything, Tianyi should be shot dead.

网易浙江省温州市手机网友 ip:122.239.*.*: (responding to 冬骅数位音讯)

Seeing these water army [people hired to comment online on behalf of or against someone] posts/comments, profoundly shows how powerful the Li family is. I now know why the elderly often say the people cannot fight the government/government officials [Li’s parents are ranking civilian members of the PLA].

网易上海市手机网友(112.64.*.*): (also responding to 冬骅数位音讯)

The water army are truly frightening!

网易内蒙古赤峰市网友 [冷点鱼]: (responding to above)

The water army are truly shameless!

网易广东省深圳市手机网友 ip:112.97.*.*: (responding to above)

The water army are truly ignorant!

立正与天 [网易浙江省宁波市手机网友]: (also responding to 冬骅数位音讯)

Li Tianyi’s water army have gone crazy, over 10k upvotes in 3 minutes, amusing themselves, getting a reporter to report on a closed meeting, is this mounting an out-of-court defense?

盽曮 [网易广东省深圳市网友]: (also responding to 冬骅数位音讯)

Look at how the animal above uses upvoting software to rape public opinion. If this animal has Taobao [冬骅数位音讯’s NetEase commenter profile linked to a Taobao shop] or any other channel of sales, I recommend everyone collectively give negative feedback. This animal going against public opinion is actually just to attract eyeballs and advertise. No one needs to respond to this animal’s comments, even if you want to curse this animal. I strongly protest against NetEase, always expressing an attitude [independence, principles], yet allowing this animal to do whatever he pleases [manipulate the comments and voting], so where is NetEase’s attitude now??? Or could it be that [NetEase] is just trying to advertise [get attention] like this animal???

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  • All this fuzz for a retarded horny weird rich kid who owns a shitload of pink t-shirts. Let him wear those pink t-shirts in jail, no biggie compared to what other people have to go through.

    • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

      I think the buzz right now is how much money and manpower is being spent on keeping him and his fruity pink shirts OUT of prison, and away from the execution chamber.

      • man this is like the biggest saving-face case China has ever heard of. It is amazing how little real people with real jobs or people who have suffered injustice truly matter to the rest, that was my point. so don’t kill the kid, send him to prison with all his wardrobe. xD

  • markus peg

    Gosh the Chinese people are even changing opinions and placing the blame on the woman… i still think he is guilty and outside pressure should not affect the case…

    • mwanafa

      Gosh the Chinese people are even changing opinions and placing the blame on the woman.
      Are you for real? It’s only one user on all the three comments which got millions of upvotes in few seconds and they have been deleted, others still have not changed their opinion.

      • markus peg

        its one comment yes but it got millions of up votes.
        Its not about the amount of comments its about the amount that agreed.

        • jin

          Yep youre a dumbass

          • Atlas

            This, a hundred million times.

        • Zhegezhege

          markus peg,

          r u trollan?

        • Kai

          I think maintaining a level of skepticism is healthy and it’s definitely true that we don’t have any first-hand evidence of those people being “water army” (essentially paid internet commentators used for astroturfing, smearing, and such PR campaigns). We aren’t NetEase admins who have access to server logs to inspect the traffic and just because something isn’t popular doesn’t make it false.

          That said, unless we accuse NetEase admins as being biased, the fact that such comments were subsequently removed suggests something motivated the NetEase admins to do so and the many other comments accusing those comments of being from water army is one possible explanation.

          For all we know, what if these comments were posted and upvoted by anti-Li-Tianyi people trying to make the public think Li Tianyi is resorting to such tactics, thus making him look even more contemptible? Water-army-ception? It’s not impossible but we have no evidence for anything really, just points of irregularity.

          For example, would a pro-Li-Tianyi person repeatedly characterize the 5 defendants as “minors” when it was already a big controversy and well-known that only one person’s name was revealed by authorities who “stubbornly” refused to reveal the names of the other four “minor” defendants including Li Tianyi? Or is it because the person doing that is that careless? Or that motivated to make one side seem like innocent children who simply didn’t know the consequences? How do we explain all the points of skepticism?

          • markus peg

            Some valid points you have made and the idea of up votes by anti-Li-Tiany, though unlikely, is an interesting idea.

        • jin

          Well seems like the admin know that its the water army, because they deleted all those comments.

          • markus peg

            The admins know it was a water army? That is only presumption, not a fact. We don’t and won’t know the real reasons. we can only assume incorrectly or correctly either way we won’t know for sure…

          • jin

            wouldnt the admins know who voted? from what ip? how many seconds between each votes? only valid reason that i can think of for deleting those posts would be! because it wasnt posted by REAL NetEase users.

      • Gordon Gogodancer

        I haven’t read the article but from the Chinese comments i believe the first few comments in favor of the ugly kid were actually posted and upvoted by the “water army” guys probably paid by the family.

    • jin

      Youre not very smart, are you??? If you read the rest of the comments, you would know what an water army is.

  • mwanafa

    I think I am missing something, someone help me go through this: How can all those videos taken out of context prove that he/they didn’t rape her.

    • Germandude

      Because…

      • Mighty曹

        .. it’s China.

  • Kevin Yu

    How can one comment get like 170k upvotes in just a few seconds? Some kind of “DDos Attack”?

    I mean I know so many fake-accounts but can there be like 170k in just a few seconds?

    • wafflestomp

      Bot net.

  • Fanduril

    This clown needs his ass beat.

    • Mighty曹

      He needs to be ass-raped.

      • YourSupremeCommander

        you go first! and you can have my turn too!

        • Refractions_of_Error

          Why? Didn’t you enjoy the first time? ;-}

          • Mighty曹

            LOL!

        • Cv

          Are you gay? Spending all your daddys money on gay sex? Or postitutes… So chinese kid shut the fuck up..with your dum ass coments.

          • Mighty曹

            LOL!

        • Mighty曹

          LOL! hey!

  • Repatriated

    China loves the “make an example” method. Here’s their chance! The only leniency he should be shown is giving him a bottle of lube before tossing him into the general population of a prison….

    • Probotector

      Making an example only applies if it’s a foreigner; sometimes a peasant. A rich boy like this can guanxi his way out of this eventually. Wait and see…

      • Germandude

        You are wrong on this one mate. In the last couple of months there were a couple of higher ranked party members that were punished for corruption etc.. Some of which you would expect to have quite some guanxi.

        Still, it looks much like “kill the chicken to scare the monkey”.

        • we could bet on it. if we can’t believe anything chinese TV says, why would we believe them when they say they’ve caught someone who was being corrupt? I bet you a crate of snow beer (水花啤酒) this kid has enough guanxi to skip prison. otherwise they would have sent him to jail already.

          • 水花啤酒 You have just let out of the bag where you were in China. 10 to 1 says you were in Shaanxi, and your girlfriend is from there somewhere!

          • Refractions_of_Error

            Sharp Sir.

          • thank you sir.

          • lol I’m getting used to be accused of living in shaanxi, which ain’t true, not even close.

            but 10 to 1 says you lived in China for like 10 years and never spoke any chinese beyond “服务员” “一瓶啤酒” “谢谢” and every time you had to go home you showed a business card to the taxi driver. I’m also pretty sure every time someone said 哈喽 to you, you waved back at them… just like most native english speakers living in China.

          • Don’t read or write it except a little, but am fluent in speaking Mandarin (putonghua) and some Cantonese. No, never showed a business card except for an address or place I had never been to, and I do put people in their place if they call me lao wai. I bet you went to Nanchang also, have a gay sunday.

          • still, the word “shaanxi” comes up all the time… no, wifey’s from Jilin, and she’s the best I must say.

      • DavidisDawei

        Maybe He will pay someone to do his time for him….?

        • wafflestomp

          Most people forget some rich people did hire doubles to serve their prison time for them.

    • Refractions_of_Error

      Lube for what? It’s China man. He won’t even feel it.

      • Kai

        Really? More “Chinese have small penis” jokes? Is this the sophistication of intellect and character you wish to present to others here?

        • Refractions_of_Error

          The topic in itself was devoid of sophistication, intellect and indeed character. There appear to be many, I mean many comments well beyond the realms of amusement directed at ‘cheap white fuckers’ yet they pass uncontested. I do apologise if my own comment causes discomfort to you on a personal level but make no apologies for making the comment in itself.

          • Kai

            I disagree. The topic of Li Tianyi is full of interesting points for discussion where participants can demonstrate intellect and character above the level of tired “hur hur Chinese men have small penises” jokes. That’s about as retarded as the Chinese netizens who feel compelled to comment about the hairness or body odor of foreigners for no god damn good reason other than petty insecurity.

            Now, I’ve been on cS for a long time, longer than you and your previous identities and incarnations. I understand how equally retarded comments against white people will jump out at you. That’s normal. However, I can guarantee you that those retarded comments are far outnumbered by retarded comments of your sort. Moreover, they are far more reliably contested by the commenting community here than comments of your sort which are embarrassingly routinely upvoted by people who share your mindset.

            Don’t get me wrong, this is expected, even understandable, but it still begs the question of whether this is really the sophistication of intellect and character you and people like you wish to broadcast to others. If it is, that’s fine, and as long as you don’t violate our comment policy, you just serve as a counterpoint to similarly idiotic Chinese netizens we translate. Congratulations on proving that you’re no better than them in this regard.

          • Refractions_of_Error

            First of all, I am presuming you will not use your ability to ban people from this site while you, yourself, throw around comments like ‘your sort’. You have thrown around wording like ‘sophistication’, ‘intellect’ and ‘character’ as though this site and, its content befit these characteristics. This is a tabloid at best and, the comments, the articles themselves are far removed from and are devoid of any vestige of the nature of discussion you have attempted to initiate in your capacity as moderator. Their appears to be, disappointingly if not surprisingly, a defense of eattot and her sort coming from YOURself which begs the question as to why. Why you perpetuate the mindset which, based on the underpinnings of deeply entrenched premises, state that white people are cheap. Fuckers. This did indeed, as you put it, jump out at me, as being a colored person, I found it appalling that you as moderator, find that to be within the realms of normality whereby my comment ‘jumped out at you’? And prompted your diatribe. Yet you find that the ‘criticisms and flames’ that surround eattot are unjustified. Or is this simply the usual, chinese defend chinese? Congratulations to you, for proving you are no different in THIS regard. You may find my comments ‘similarly idiotic’ by all means as they are simply a reflection of the idiocy, which is abundant in all its racist forms and protectors, cloaked in a feeble attempt at sophistry.

          • Kai

            Different people see different things in cS. I see its format as being conducive to sophisticated discussion about modern China, which includes the participants in that discussion demonstrating intellect and character.

            For example, I think it is more interesting to read translations of the original Chinese content rather than some Western journalist or blogger’s paraphrasing of it. In many ways, it let’s me draw my own conclusions. I have the opportunity to divine for myself what is significant, notable, insightful, revealing, etc. rather than have someone else tell me what is important through their own colored lenses. Translation is not perfect, and there are other confounding factors when it comes to selection, but it’s one less level of interpretation that may either mislead me or cause me to miss out on all the possible things I could learn from a piece of content, whether it be an article or a comment.

            Having this view of cS and knowing that others share it does NOT mean I don’t also understand that many other people don’t see cS this way. Perhaps they see it as you do, as a site that does not befit characteristics of sophistication, intellect, or character. That’s fine, but I have no idea why this site and its content can’t be multiple things to multiple people.

            I know some people think of fights about kids pissing in the subway to “define” the content of cS and I can empathize. However, I don’t forget pieces like this where Fauna spent hours laboriously translating paragraphs upon paragraphs of detail pertinent to an important case in modern Chinese society knowing full well that many readers won’t even bother reading it because it isn’t really relevant to them or whatever their primary motivation for visiting the site is.

            Hell, Fauna didn’t even want to spell out the whole “water army” phenomenon at first. It was I who argued that she give a bit more intro and context in hopes that it’ll make more immediate sense to a wider group of people why this isn’t just a popular piece of Chinese internet content but also a fascinatingly revealing one about the nature and reliability of internet information and discussion overall.

            I’m one of the first people to acknowledge and even characterize cS as being tabloidy. You can’t escape it when your editorial criteria is “internet popularity”. You must think us idiots if we don’t know that. However, just because we think there is legitimate sociological value in beholding what becomes popular on China’s internet doesn’t mean we’re ignorant of how it might look to certain people or that certain people just see it as tabloid gossip. The thing is, while it’s reasonable to expect low-brow comments on a tabloidy website about mainstream internet popular content, there is no REQUIREMENT that people turn off their intellect and character on this website.

            At the end of the day, no amount of “sophistry” is going to change the fact that what people say reflects something about them. As a fellow commenter, I found your joke tiresome. Granted, I could’ve just called you an idiot, but I guess I instead appealed to your sense of shame and desire to be respectable.

            Finally, where did you get the idea that I defended eattot? I only defended allowing her to continue commenting so long as she doesn’t violate our comment policy. This is just like how I defended allowing people like you to continue commenting so long as you don’t. This is just likehow I defend our site’s policy of not moderating on the basis of racism alone.

            Likewise, where the hell did you get the idea that I find the criticisms and flames surrounding eattot “unjustified”? I said the exact opposite. I said I don’t feel sympathetic to her “side” because she says some real “head-scratchers”. How is that remotely me saying what she gets is “unjustified”?

            The attacks you’re making against me don’t even rise to the level of sophistry; they’re just false. There’s a long line of ethnic Chinese trolls who hate me because I’ve banned them for trolling or harrassing expat or foreigner commenters on this site, so if you want to comfort yourself with the stereotype that “Chinese defend Chinese”, go ahead, I’m secure with my level of objectivity and fairness.

          • Refractions_of_Error

            The attacks you’re making against me don’t even rise to the level of sophistry-

            First of all I did not attack you. It was a response to your intervention. You also have said nothing to those unprovoked comments directed at myself from chinese members so, it was not a stereotype which led to me having to bring up the chinese defend chinese comment. That is for you to examine your own conscience not my comfort.

            ‘Likewise, where the hell did you get the idea that I find the criticisms and flames surrounding eattot “unjustified”?’

            I cannot believe, that with your command of the English language, you pose this question but, I will answer in any case. I got the idea from here:

            ‘criticisms and flames’ – Get it? If you don’t, ask someone.

            If you looked at an earlier reply to your post a day ago, you will find my very first comment to you was made in a friendly, polite and respectful manner and outlined how much I appreciated your thoughts on that matter and, asked if you could post more often. It was refreshing reading your comment. Did you read that?

            Secondly, I was not engaging nor did I allude to myself trying my hand at sophistry, that was directed at you. Read it again and you will understand that. Personally I prefer a more direct approach as I am not a politician.

            Now, on a conciliatory note and I expect you to reciprocate- I do appreciate the hard work you do, I made that clear a day or so ago before this started. I don’t want to have to put you in a position to write lengthy paragraphs on cyclical conversations. I know how brave it is to do something like CS in China of all places so, while you and I have had this discussion, no one can take away what you do and do on a daily basis. I am the last one to want to give you headache man and I did not intend to allow this conversation degenerate into what is has become and this is, as I said, a conciliatory reply and I imagine that you will reciprocate or, you can simply ban me from the site, which now, actually, I doubt you will do. Besides, we are both busy. Eattot has left me a message and I haven’t read it yet, you know what she is like if she gets ignored for too long:=]

            I apologise as like a man for any offense caused and this is a virtual handshake. Regards.

          • Kai

            I appreciate the concilatory response. I understand in retrospect how my response put you on the defensive. At the time, I already thought I was being tactful because the far more direct response would be to call you an idiot or otherwise more harshly slam you for what is a tired joke built on casual racism. Put it this way, is it something you’d say in the company of Chinese friends? Or even Chinese strangers?

            cS is built and run by Chinese people and it has a LOT of Chinese readers, both nationals and ethnics. They don’t deserve comments like this. It’s a joke, yes, but it’s still not cool.

            About the rest of your comment:

            Your “response” to me included “attacks”. My “intervention” was also a “response”.

            I don’t say anything to a lot of comments. Neither do you. This fact doesn’t mean we support or defend those comments against anyone.

            Why would you fallaciously characterize me as “Chinese defending Chinese” when I didn’t defend anyone much less on the basis of them being Chinese?

            I don’t see why the phrase “criticism and flames” connotes “unjustified”. Please consider the signals you send when you express that my command of the English language is somehow noteworthy.

            Yes, I did read that comment. It’s part of why I’m confused by you accusing me of defending eattot when you responded to a comment I made characterizing her comments as rarely making sense and incoherent strings of expletives. How am I defending her in any way with that characterization?

            It also has nothing to do with my response to your comment here. I can agree with one comment but disagree with another, and be entirely neutral in yet another. I’m not sure what you were expecting or are expecting by asking me if I read it.

            I didn’t say you alluded to you trying your hand at sophistry. I was actually accusing you of it because you accused me of it, to signal to you that I did not fail to miss the accusation and what I think of it. If you want to argue sophistry, please feel free to dissect my responses so far and spell out how they meet the definition of the word.

            Finally, to put this a humorous spin to this now that we hopefully understand each other: My indignation at your joke may suggest I have a small dick (which you insinuated, right?) but your defense of your joke suggests you have an even smaller one.

            Thanks for understanding why your joke can be tedious on a site frequented by Chinese people who have never done anything wrong to you.

          • Refractions_of_Error

            So we agree that racism is in fact offensive. I would just like to see a more even hand in criticism. It would be interesting however to have this conversation over a beer, where you are not a moderator and can shut someone off.

            I appreciate your indignation at my stereotyping but that is merely a reaction to racist comments left by other members . By the way, I do not recall addressing the initial comment to you. I can take jokes. Black people have thick lips. Its a common feature. People in China say that to my face. Oh you have big lips. I can smile that off because that is not the only big thing going on. But to reciprocate that comment in equal measure suddenly becomes unacceptable and racist.

            Oh and the signals I send regarding your English? None. In Britain we take note of one’s diction and comment on it. Don’t presume that was some type of backhanded compliment. If you want open criticism then your diction is that of a prosector in a court of law. Chill a bit. If you as moderator are going to pick apart every word I say, you then have to promise not to ban me and then let’s have that conversation where I am also permitted to pick apart your every sentence and address it.

            We should meet one day and I’ll buy the beers. Now I am heading to the current story. See you there.

          • Kai

            If you want me to interpret your stereotyping here as a direct reaction to racist comments by others, it’d have helped if it was posted as a direct reply to a racist comment by someone else. Otherwise, it looks more like justifying one wrong by pointing to the wrong of another. It’s like complaining about being pulled over for speeding because someone else was speeding, instead of saying you hit back because someone hit you first. Even then, I’m not a fan of fighting fire with fire.

            You subsequently addessed the initial comment to me in your first response to me.

            We can argue about how going from lips to dicks is an escalation in malice and hardly “reciprocating in equal measure” (since you know full well that lips aren’t associated with issues of masculine insecurity like dicks are) but the bottom line is this: Intent matters in issues of character. If some Chinese person maliciously points out black people’s thick lips as something to ridicule, then he/she is just as big of an asshole as you are for maliciously ridiculing Chinese people as having relatively smaller dicks.

            Just because someone in China has said something racist to your face doesn’t justify you saying something racist to needlessly offend the rest of us who haven’t. Have I said anything racist to you? Yet you’re already looking at my profile picture and assuming I’m Chinese defending eatot because she’s Chinese? Come on, dude.

            Prosecutors in a court of law also take note of diction and comment on it.

            I’m not going to ban you for simply disagreeing with my opinion. You’ve read and commented on enough of my past comments to already know you only risk being banned if you violate our comment policy because I keep saying it and explaining why some people won’t be banned just because you or someone else dislike their speech. Hell, the more persuasively and intelligently you argue your disagreement, the more respect and admiration you’d earn from me. So if you feel you haven’t been “picking apart” my sentences and addressing them, go ahead.

            My point from the start of this conversation was that you can do better than tired penis jokes. Since you subsequently blamed eattot or others for it, why sink to their level?

          • Refractions_of_Error

            We are never going to agree on what we believe constitutes racism nor in which way these attitudes should or could be dealt with. I sympathize with wish to see SC as the following: “I see its format as being conducive to sophisticated discussion about modern China, which includes the participants in that discussion demonstrating intellect and character.”

            As I mentioned, I do appreciate the wish in itself yet I believe, there is a long way to go. People will eventually respond in kind. There are a few who would genuinely like to have that debate but I would hazard a guess of around 20 years before it gets to that stage. For intelligent and INFORMED comments, I refer to sites from the UK or USA.

            Incidently, my pc seems to go haywire when I reply to you. Like a remote takeover of the mouse and opening folders etc. It only happens when I reply to you. I will be getting this looked into by the tech team here in Shanghai, they have ways to locate the problem. Computers eh?

          • Kai

            The understanding and expectation that people will “respond in kind” is precisely why we don’t moderate comments on the basis of racism alone. We’re not idiots. Just because we aspire for and promote greater sophistication doesn’t mean we don’t understand that people are imperfect and prone to emotional reactions.

            As for what constitutes racism, Wikipedia has a nice discussion of it that I find sufficient.

            As for how racism should be dealt with, we believe in acknowledging its existinse and confronting it, especially as members of the community in which it is found. You say we’ll never agree on this so I’m interested to know how you think it should be dealt with.

            For example, many sites prefer to simply moderate and censor it, understandably arguing that it is a negative influence. The rationale is that making it taboo discourages it over time. That’s persuasive, but so is the counterargument that it merely encourages (the negative connotations of) political-correctness, that people harbor the same prejudices but just sublimate them. In that vein, we think confrontations about the issue might actually result in more changes of heart and mind because people are forced to confront the validity, legitimacy, and justifiability of their prejudices including racism.

            So again, you say you disagree on how it should be dealt with. How would you have cS deal with it? You understand we may not change our policy but I hope you understand the policy. Voicing a persuasive argument as to why we should change that policy may indeed lead us to change it. It’s an issue we’re constantly thinking about because it is so contentious.

            Next, I’m not sure why you generalize sites from the UK or USA as having intelligent and informed comments. There are too many examples to the contrary and too many examples of sites from elsewhere that have intelligent and informed comments.

            If anything influences the amount of intelligent and informed comments, it is about the site operator’s management of the community of commenters. For many people, we do a piss poor job of it. They point to us allowing comments like the one you made or the comments like the the one eattot made that you cited instead of deleting them immediately. That’s the consequence of us compromising between two legitimate interests. We can only beg people to consider the ramifications.

            I have no idea what your last paragraph is about.

          • Robert Rou

            Free speech standards in the West have limits, boundaries, and exceptions. It is NOT a free-for-all. If these are the standards you wish to emulate, I encourage your to identify these limits, browse the non-Chinese internet, and discover for yourself whether chinaSmack is indeed an outlier or not.

          • Kai

            Trust us, dude, we know free speech standards in the West have limits. Not sure why you think we don’t know that.

            We’re not trying to emulate the Western free speech standards. If that were the case, in the context of website comment policies, we’d moderate comments on the basis of racism alone, or even expletives.

            No, we have our own standards and I’ve articulated the reasoning behind them in comments like the one above. Our limits, as they are now, are identified in our comment policy. Overall, to generalize, our moderation is looser than many Western sites and tighter than many Chinese sites.

          • Robert Rou

            I dont know about that but sure on the trust you.

          • mr.wiener

            Hmm …more asian than the asians and more knowledgable of the west than westerners yeh?

          • Robert Rou

            so is this a complaint or a real quesiton. because if it’s the latter u might alreaye know the answer to that.

          • guest

            This conversation regarding forum etiquette is superfluous to this topic

          • mr.wiener

            So let this be a lesson to all you young Smackers, No ethnic dick jokes.

            Junior Mod:”Sire! long range scanners are picking up an ethnic dick joke! ”
            Senior Mod:{tensing] “What kind of dick joke?”
            Science Mod: “Tri-corder readings indicate it is an Asian dick joke by a non Asian……[awkward pause] Response sire?”
            Senior Mod: “Shields up! Unleash the wall of text!!”

  • Kate

    He looks like frownie guppy fish……ack.

    • Mighty曹

      He looks like a pouty bratty little bitch.

      • Probotector

        He looks like your regular-ass spoiled Chinese kid with mouth gape.

        • Mighty曹

          Mouth that needs to be punched in.

      • biggj

        He looks like a bag of mashed up assholes.

    • 二奶头发

      He looks like he should be a character in my little pony.

      • Refractions_of_Error

        ‘IN’ your little pony?

    • Refractions_of_Error

      Guppy fish? He looks like a twisted gimp. All things considered.

    • YourSupremeCommander

      Looks like you are picking your nose.

      • Refractions_of_Error

        You look like you got your ass picked. Be nice to the ladies now.

        • YourSupremeCommander

          What’s the matter for you? You want her to pick your nose too?

          • Refractions_of_Error

            Just wondering why you get so defensive over that pink gimp rapist? Why does that matter for you?

          • YourSupremeCommander

            Where do you see that I am being defensive of the pink lady boy? All I see is YOU are being defensive because I pointed out that the pic of Kate, looks like she’s picking her nose. Which I may add does not concern you.

            Either you need reading lessons or you need glasses. Either way I feel for you son.

          • Refractions_of_Error

            You have comments have a pattern. You appear to have an in-built flip switch which is activated when this pink gimp appears and gets further pummeling on this forum. I just wondered why YOU, whether you admit this or not, react the way you do. I do not believe you feel for me but, you seem to feel for pinky boy. And this is not the first time you have crossed my path let me remind you. The last time I let loose on you, I left you a laughing stock so shaken, I walked half a block and could still feel the aftershocks. So son, actually no, not son, I would have to dispose of you if I had anything to do with you being spawned, I suggest you take a little break like you did last time. It took days for you to recover and I got banned from the site and we all know how difficult it is to get banned here. Why does pinky boy matter to you so much? Come on, once you start talking about it you may begin the road to recovery. It’s ok, it’s ok, here, let me give you a tissue.

          • Kai

            YSC’s comment about Kate’s profile photo looking like she’s picking her nose is pretty in-character for him. For what it’s worth, it didn’t strike me as him being defensive about Li Tianyi, but I dunno, I’m not familiar with whatever grudge match that apparently exists between you two. Just sayin’ YSC makes that sort of comments often enough that it didn’t strike me as odd in this context.

      • Kate

        I am.

    • Michael

      He looks like he wants to be raped

  • Mighty曹

    We’re being subjected to this Fuck Face again???

    • YourSupremeCommander

      your post reminds me of my hero:

      • Mighty曹

        Your hero worship is questionable.

        • YourSupremeCommander

          I forgive you as you don’t know who my hero is.

          • Zhegezhege

            It appears that your hero is Tom Cruise.

          • YourSupremeCommander

            Tom is nothing, my hero is the brilliant linguist playa!

          • Mighty曹

            So who’s that disturbing looking hero of yours?

  • stevelaudig

    Videos provide little of value to the defense indeed are quite damning as they confirm the defendant’s A: being intentionally in the wrong place at the wrong [and not by accident]; being drunk; and appearing to be in charge. hardly the acts of a ‘minor’ he acts like an adult and should be dealt with as an adult. we are seeing a repeat sexual offender in action. and if he’s a minor, where are the parents in all this? oh, giving him money. In a sense they are accomplices before the act of rape to the act of rape. He’s a worm with family money [questionably obtained, probably unearned in the laboring sense of the word ‘earned’]. he needs some cooling off time and prison is called ‘the cooler’ for a reason. A defense that vilifies the victim is admitting criminality. after all ‘if’ she is a ‘criminal’ then he is consorting with criminals.

    • narsfweasels

      Additionally, he drove drunk and solicited sex from a prostitute. Both are illegal and the former has carried a jail term of up to 10 years in the past, if memory serves..? I remember one guy in Beijing got 25 years for drunk driving and killing someone, and another case here locally that got a similar sentence.

      • Robert Rou

        The best part is he and his friends are all minors, have a history of violence, and solicit the girl for an orgy-fest. Oh, and the girl has a history of her own. The best in China really do put us all to shame.

        • mr.wiener

          It really is a tawdry little case from start to finish.

          • David

            I suppose that is why it is so popular on the Chinese web. you get Sex, Violence, underage boys pretending to be men, spoiled brat of rich corrupt government officials. Hmmmm this would probably beat the fall line up on most t.v. stations.

        • Refractions_of_Error

          Well done.

  • Middle_Kingdum

    Always wearing pink! So cute and funny, really.

    • Robert Rou

      The bubbles add a nice touch too.

    • Refractions_of_Error

      Middle_kingdum and @Robert R I now pronounce you Man and…

  • I love Sexy Chinese girls

    I’ll read all the comments instead.

    • xuedi

      yeah, wtf, normally for crime descriptions they have this neat maps and graphs … just text of event description sucks

  • Alphy

    Bot Net! They are even swarming some US major US papers and things like Google+. It will be interesting to see how public opinion in the future made based on internet opinion and rather these type of abuse changes things.

    And seriously, why pink?

  • Refractions_of_Error

    He would make a good partner for Eattot though.

  • David S.

    Dear Chinasmack,

    Did you really have to use THAT picture? Did you realise that we, your valued readership, will see it everytime we visit your website over the next couple of weeks?

    • Kai

      Er, how so? It’ll be out of the recent posts within 4-5 days and off the front-page within 6-7 days. If it doesn’t get over 200 comments, it won’t likely make the most discussed list on the sidebar either. I think it’s a great picture that makes him look as obnoxious as he supposedly is. Heh.

  • 6744363 Fulsom Celblock C

    That boy needed to be fist fucked LONG and HARD.

  • justanotherday

    what the fuck’s he doing and why are there bubbles lol. how can a gay kid like him rape? he’s totally harmless

  • Claude

    Well, I’ve developed Li Tainyi fatigue and would love to see this little creep disappear of the face of the planet! Will someone snuff this little shit out?

    • Kai

      Heh, yeah, but the developments in this case has reliably been popular on the Chinese internet. cS’s coverage is only a fraction of it.

  • bob

    @Refractions_of_Error

    get a job man……

  • Jack from England

    Li Tianyi is all over the news in the West. He is causing all of China to look stupid and corrupt. Unless he is convicted people will think that China is a nation filled with corruption and that Chinese law means nothing

  • Simon

    people from various field of life speak highly of this trial. and many people say Li Tianyi should be sentensed to fifteen years in jail

  • al in china

    Theye should do his family a favor and put him in a US jail with some really nice boys…….They will make him squeal. Come to think of it maybe he’d like it.

  • king_kong

    I can not believe people commenting on his looks or his family as proof he committed the crime. The story that this woman might have tried to blackmail money from “these rich minors” is also reasonable. Sounds like she has tried this trick before?

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