North Korean Artillery Attack, Chinese Netizen Reactions

Smoke rising over Yeonpyeong island in South Korea after being hit by North Korean artillery rounds.

From Mop:

[The following are a collection of netizen comments selected by the original poster and included in the original post, without the netizens' names.]

1.

China should temporarily reduce Diaoyu Islands activity to stop America from using South Korean to provoke North Korea and using Japan to contain China! China should concentrate its efforts, help North Korea, and when the time comes, help North Korea conquer South Korea in one stroke, realizing North and South [Korean] unification!

2.

In this age of peace, it is still better to calmly negotiate, because in wars, those who suffer the most harm are the ordinary common people, while those who gain are only those politicians who stick their hands into the political whirlpool. If a politician really cares about the suffering of the common people, then please don’t adopt a war-like posture, as this kind of behavior will only increase the people’s resentment towards the rulers/government. Valuing one’s own people is the most important task for strengthening one’s political position! I am Chao Yongjun.

3.

China and North Korea are switching from defense to offense. In the first half of the Cheonan Incident, the MD bangzi pissed off the two [China and North Korea]. In the middle, because of the Diaoyu Islands incident and the G20 Summit, everyone took a break. Now we’re entering the second half of the Cheonan Incident, so keep an eye on China and North Korea’s actions.

4.

North Korea is simply niu, this is exactly what power from the barrel of a gun is, and China too should do this to little Japan a few times too.

[#5 was a repeat of #1]

6.

Holding Americans’ thigh dreaming about a reunification, such a ridiculous South Korea.

7.

Whoa, this is getting serious, how can they be playing with fire? And it [the news] is real too. The world is not stable now, it’s dangerous.

8.

Kim II has that little assets and he’s going to go to war with South Korea?
His military doesn’t even have enough to eat.
I suspect that Kim II is just making a fuss, creating a little hostile/nervous atmosphere, making everyone’s economy slide a little.

[I] really suspect that Kim III, this guy is in Hong Kong taking short positions [on stock].

Kim III is in Hong Kong shorting stock,
his father fires some cannons,
father and son work together and get rich.

9.

North Korea: Ballistic missile models include “Scud” (range 300 km), “Laodong-1″ [Chinese transliteration, not sure what is the normal English name] (550-600 km) ballistic missile, as well as a few “Nodong-1″ and “Nodong-2″ missles (range about 1300 km), “Taepodong-1″ (range 1500 to 2200 km) and “Taepodong-2″ (range 3750 to 6000 km) ballistic missiles.
Korea: 1978 American-made “Nike” large ground to air missiles serve as foundation, successfully developed two kinds of ground to ground ballistic missiles. 1997 America provides South Korean with 111 Block 1 type ground ballistic missiles, range of 165 km. Later, [America] again provides 110 Block IA M39 style missiles, range reaching 300 km, able to reach the Chinese interior from the 38th parallel.

10.

Either there is a serious problem within North Korea [government] or Little Kim’s health is bad, and he is passing power [to his son].
Recently, from the shots fired at the 38th parallel killing South Korean soldiers, to the nuclear sites, and then to the artillery attack, there has been constant escalation, although [I think] it is to get international attention, to create a tense situation. Getting international attention allows it to negotiate prices [get concessions?]; creating tense situations can allow it to shift attention from internal conflicts/problems.
North Korea is indeed a strategic burden for China.

11.

Ultimately, with the help of the People’s Liberation Army led by the great Chinese Communist Party, in the interest of world peace, for the stability and unity of the entire world’s people, from the principle of keeping in mind the interests of the entire universe’s people, it will ultimately be proven through investigation that it was a few North Korean temporary workers who were in the wrong place and at the wrong time firing the wrong cannons and trust the North Korean go-vern-ment will fairly and severely punish these temporary worker scum—-the Korean Peninsula is harmonious, the world is harmonious.

[In China, a lot of accidents and mistakes are often blamed on "temporary workers" so the company or organization itself escapes blame.]

12.

Bastard North Korea, can’t you just stop and be good for a while? You obviously can’t defeat your schoolmate [South Korea] yet today you take a stick and poke your schoolmate, and tomorrow you’ll use your foot to kick to provoke [South Korea]. Bastard North Korea, trying to get other people’s attention, don’t drag in your dad and mom China into it. Every time you are outside bullying your little schoolmates around you, your dad and mom needs to go against its conscience to defend you. Every time you finish taking a shit [cause trouble], it is always China that has to help wipe your ass [clean up the situation]. Don’t you think you’ve caused enough trouble for China? Bastard North Korea.

13.

I think it is the incited by the west [I don't think this means "the West" but I am not sure who it is referring to]. The west needs to develop dialogue with America more than the north. The north takes the west’s food, comes out and fires a few cannons, then says let’s have Six Party Talks. In the end, the west and America achieve another bunch of “trade” agreements. The West’s pressure is gone, and the rabble continue enjoying inflation expectations.

14.

Little Kim obviously has nothing to lose.
If American dares to bomb North Korea,
North Korea will flatten Seoul.
Seoul is not 60 km away from the 38th parallel.
Little Kim is vicious/daring enough.
At worst, just go into the mountains and fight a guerrilla war.
He has the courage of [don't know who/what 太俎 is].
I approve/comment!

15.

I think in the current situation of the Kim family completely siding/aligning with China, this instance of the northern bangzi artillery attack must’ve been been done with China being previously notified, and it is even possible that it was with China’s encouragement, the benefits being:

1. After America’s 600 billion quantitative easing, international hot money is eying China. If war happens on the Korean Peninsula, this hot money will think twice about entering China.

2. Domestic inflation has recently been out of control, so the go-vern-ment purposely slowing down the economy, lowering prices, especially the prices of international raw materials/commodities like oil, soybeans, and copper, which are 3 commodities that China relies mainly on imports, and are the three main sources of imported inflation. So if North Korea starts a war, the US Dollar must appreciate significantly, and these 3 commodities will necessarily drop in price significantly, contributing to a drop in prices across the board domestically [in China].

3. China’s current industrial rise has already reached a critical point. At the top, its direct competitors are Japan, Korea, and Europe. Through a North Korean war, it will throw Korea into chaos, disrupt Japan, and massively help the rise and global competitiveness of China’s domestic electronics, microchip, IT, automotive, and shipbuilding industries.
In short, as long as China does not directly deploy troops [get militarily involved], the benefits/advantages are many, and no matter how hot the flames of war burn, it will still first destroy Korea, and then destroy Japan, taking out these two forever wild wolves [no matter how well you treat it, it will never remember your kindness and be dangerous to you].

Firefighters clean up after North Korean artillery hits a South Korean island.

From KDS:

South and North Korea war breaks out!!!!!!!!!!

One of South Korea’s islands have been shelled by North Korean artillery, buildings were damaged, South Korea has fire back.

Will a full-on war happen?

Comments from KDS:

剪刀:

It has been many years since they’ve fought, it’s definitely time for a competition [for them to test each other]. emoticon

cyq1857:

Good, let Fatty Kim and North Korea be wiped from the globe. emoticon

牛吃蟹:

A full-on war is impossible. From the [South] Korean point of view, without America’s permission, they will not attack on their own; Even if it is a counterattack, the scale is also very limited. From the North Korean point of view, the probability of proactive provocation must be big, but they will not overestimate their abilities and be reckless, at most small-scale.

Mac:

Starting a war during the Asian Games? Truly not giving the Heavenly Kingdom face. emoticonFatty III’s [Kim Jong-un] sure has some balls [sure is brave/daring].

瘦人:

The Heavenly Kingdom must not help Fatty Kim, with this kind of rogue state, you never know when they’re going to turn around and bite you too.

鸡腿菇:

Even though it is again North Korean who is causing trouble first, it feels like it is America that really needs this kind of war.

乌鸦:

MMD, The Gulf of Aden aliens are about to attack us, and we’re still having internal conflicts [among humans]. emoticonemoticonemoticon

cs:

All America lacks is a fire-starting opportunity [a trigger]. If they don’t deal with TG [the government], after a few more years, they won’t even be able to repay the interest on their national debt, so Fatty Kim doing this is detestable, clearly intent on dragging us under the water.

儒教传人:

Does South Korea dare? Seoul is completely within North Korea’s artillery range. Without China’s approval, would America dare intervene?

深蓝:

As long as North Korea does not deploy ground forces and invade, South Korea would not dare start a full-scale war. What they’re afraid of are the tens of thousands of artillery aimed at Seoul, so if fighting breaks out, one attack, and South Korea is demolished, no suspense at all. The United States also doesn’t have the guts right now. Wait until they have finished their business in Iraq and Afghanistan and then see. Of course, they also have to see what China thinks, and consider the cost to South Korea.

A South Korean man walks around destroyed houses one day after North Korea's artillery attack on Yeonpyeong Island, South Korea, Wednesday, Nov. 24, 2010.  Rescuers found the burned bodies Wednesday of two islanders killed in the attack _ the first civilian deaths from a skirmish that marked a dramatic escalation of tensions between the rival Koreas.  (AP Photo/Yonhap, Park Ji-ho)  KOREA OUT

Some more translated Chinese reactions (only 3 are Chinese netizens) from China Real Time Report.

A South Korean man carries a shovel in the rubble of a building destroyed by North Korean artillery shells.

Little Fatty Kim. Personals @ chinaSMACK.

  • Chef Rocco

    A geopolitical event which has ever-lasting implications, but not war..

    • Chef Rocco

      North Korea is China’s Israel. Just like FDR said about Trujillo, China would say same thing about Kim: “He may be a bastard, but he is our bastard.”

    • BrotherLi

      I agree. But technically the two countries are still at war. The current stance is merely a ceasefire signed in 1953. So they probably don’t need a formal declaration of war to start shelling each other on a larger scale.

  • @@

    i blame the americans for this, they should all be shot

    • Mark

      Sure. Whatever you say faggot.

      • http://procon-8.deviantart.com coconut

        You seemed to of missed the sarcasm.

      • http://www.misanthropytoday.com Misanthropy Today

        He’s trolling. calm down

    • Smokeyroo

      Hahah… your complete ignorance is quite amusing! How about you go and live in North Korea and let us all know how it works out for you. Or maybe being (lit. & fig.) arse-raped by the government is your fetish.

      • @@

        why u so buttmade? u amerifat?

    • http://www.ethansenglishcafe.com Ethan

      Go back to your movies Kim.

      • bobiscool

        I”m 99% sure that this is internet sarcasm not picken up by the readers.

        • http://baihaifeng.blogspot.com Dr. Jones Jr.

          I’m 99% sure that @@ is a nearsighted troll whose bridge has just been blown up by “fatty Kim”.

    • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/8159130/Sarah-Palin-in-North-Korea-gaffe.html lay low moe
      • Meru

        omfg learn goddamn english before posting >:U

        • lay low moe

          oops i meant
          “nah don’t shot American
          but you could shot Sarach Palin”

          • Chris

            I say, haha longtime.

          • @@

            U mad? why would i shoot the promising future president of the greatest country in the galaxy?

    • BrotherLi

      The Dear Leader would agree.

      • BrotherLi

        But BrotherLi, how does TDL shoot Americans without any missile that flies that far?

        • BrotherLi

          Nuke Japan! That’ll show the Americans!

  • Justin

    You know, all Kim Jong Il ever really wanted to do was to make films. It’s his life-long ambition. Just get Warner Brothers or some other shitty Hollywood movie studio to make a vanity picture for him in exchange for North Korea giving up their nukes. Bam! Nuclear crisis resolved.

    • Justin

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2821221.stm

      “Initially the director was not sure what the North Korean leader meant by a “good” film, until he took note of what he watched most often. Top of the list was Rambo, followed by Friday the Thirteenth and all the James Bond movies.”

      So apparently Kim Jong il also has the cinematic sensibilities of a 1980s meathead. Not surprising. Just get Sly Stallone to make a shoot-em-up with the bastard or better yet team him up with Chris Tucker and the Beastie Boys for a buddy film called “Kim Jong-illin’ ”

      It’s all in the name of world peace. Why not?

      • BrotherRiverCrab

        surprisingly, Navy Seals was not on the list.

    • Bill Rich

      China can make that film quite nicely. Thank you.

  • bill

    if the major cities of south korea were just slightly more distant from the border…

  • David

    Let us open our eyes, the North is a sick country. Poor people, just because of a bunch of self egoistic people led by Kim “Dr.Evil” Jong Ill now they don’t even have enough rice to eat.
    By supporting the South, USA has made a great achievement, the South is a leading economic power.
    If China wants to make a great achievement too, it should do something correct. China has a huge and respectable power and what happened to it’s friend? Everyone is laughing at North Korea now.
    “A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words.”

  • Paulo

    I’m a bit perplexed how some Chinese people are so desperate to hate their neighbours (Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, India). It’s not like they are bombing you or flooding your border i.e. Israel – Palestine, U.S.A – Mexico. I understand the animosity because of the war but if you still hate each other and want to go to war then why exactly did so many Chinese, Korean, Thai, American, … suffer tremendously? For what? I’m guessing not so we could go to war AGAIN! They probably assumed it was for the goal of peace. Let’s honor the millions of lives and live that dream. The numerous Koreans and Japanese I’ve met in my travels seemed to get on fine, furthermore they are more likely to become friends than any other nationality. Yet, Korea was devastated just as bad as China. And when considering the ‘hatred of Japan’ logic, we can assume that if your great grandfather killed my great grandfather then I can justifiably kill you and all your race. If Europe when by this logic they’d be skullf*!@ing each other for an eternity. They’ve all been invaded/raped/pillaged by just about every other European country at some point. There’s enough animosity towards China from redneck western media without hurling abuse, putting on a holier than thou attitude and militarily strong-arming your immediate Asian neighbours. Get it together! Love thy neighbour! and if you can’t handle that then atleast don’t sh*t in your own backyard!

    BTW I wanted to hear the reason from the horses mouth. I asked my Chinese colleague what’s with hatin on other Asian countries and he answered “It’s not just other countries people, it’s there own people too :)”. I asked why and he replied “I don’t know :|”.

    Go figure

    • anon

      It’s the same way some Americans or Europeans are desperate to hate China or the Middle East? Or how many people from various parts of the world have prejudices against other people? It’s the old “I don’t like them so I wish they were gone or dead” mentality. Come on, it shouldn’t be that difficult to understand. It shouldn’t be approved of or encouraged but honestly, is it that perplexing? These Chinese people have reasons for hating some of their neighbors just as the redneck Western media has reasons for their animosity towards China (or Mexicans). There are always reasons, sometimes enough for some but not others, and sometimes there are always reasons that can be found to support prejudices.

      • Paulo

        To answer your question, Yes, prejudice and hatred towards an ethnicity based on broad generalizations, historical incidents or media hype is perplexing for me. Furthermore the fact that many of these prejudices are so intense and widely held by Chinese people of ALL ages is quite confronting. Compounded with the fact that 99.9% of people in China have never met a person from a neighbouring asian country, it makes it more perlexing. Hating Americans would make more sense to me considering there current economic posturing.

        I just went to lunch with some Chinese friends and they exclaimed that they HATE all Japanese and South Koreans. But if they had to choose friends between them, they would choose the Japanese. Ideally, they said, it is best that they kill each other and we can watch.

        In my living memory, I personally haven’t heard a westerner speak of any ethnicity to anywhere near that level of insult and prejudice. I have seen it in movies though. Say, One where nazis are sitting around talking about what they want to do to Jews and Russians or a white South African talking about what should be done do the black South Africans.

        Scary stuff.
        I’m glad I’m not South Korean or Japanese in China.
        Poor buggers.

        • jin

          where did you get that 99.9% fact from? from your ass???
          and LOL “I personally haven’t heard a westerner speak of any ethnicity to anywhere near that level of insult and prejudice” how about americans > iraq??? and it seems like that there are plenty of “westerners” talking shit about china/chinese people in this site. and i dont think a china hater like you COULD have chinese friendSSS

          scary stuff
          I’m glad I’m not a shit talking westerner in china.
          or english teacher in china.
          poor westerners.

        • mistyken

          i think u have to take into account that china was the center of their part of the world for millennia. but at the turn of the century, they were too slow to react to the rapidly changing world and suddenly find themselves at the back of the train. it’s very easy to feel butt hurt given the situation.

          it’s like u somehow manage to miraculously beat Kobe in an 1 on 1 at Staple center right in front of the media…i am highly skeptical that Kobe would just shake ur hand and walk off the court.

        • isenkrammer

          bro I’m afraid you have seriously mistakened. I’m chinese myself and I have a few friends who’re just like the so called jap-haters you described. having been friends with this kind of people for all these years I can confidently tell you, those chinese guys may claim that they ‘hate’ the japanese, but if you go into their apartments you’ll probly see Sony TV sets, Mitzubishi air conditioners and Panasonic fridges, and if you check their computers you’ll see anime and perhaps Japanese porno movies too. If they ever meet a real Japanese person chances are they’ll actually become friends. chinese guys don’t always think before they talk. they just talk and don’t even know what they’re talking about. it’s not like the guys on Stormfront who actually mean what they say.

    • http://www.ethansenglishcafe.com Ethan

      yeah, it’s a bit nuts in my opinon. I lived in Nanjing for a number of years and i can understand the anger over what happened but I had students who, very seriously, said they dreamed of the ability to go rape Tokyo. That’s seriously mentally ill…

      It’s another reason I don’t think China’s future will be all roses and peach fuzz like so many economists seem to think, they can’t even begin to play nice with their neighbours and that doesn’t bode well for peace.

      Look at the Chinese reply broken down into three points above, begging for war and completely ignoring that China would be absolutely devestated by it just like Korea and Japan. Love of war, hatred of neighbours and a no concept of the damage it will cause… terrible combination.

      Not all Chinese are this way, I know many who like Korea and Japan but the majority I meet seem to really hate the rest of East Asia…

      • isenkrammer

        since we’re talking about Nanjing I must say Nanjing is a different story. You might think the great massacre of Nanjing is too old to be mentioned today, but to the Nanjing natives, they’d have heard the horrible details of the massacre and etc from their parents or grand parents as they grew up. That, plus the fact that the current Japanese government is still in denial of the occurance of the massacre and many other wrong deeds during the war certainly can’t make the Nanjing folks like the Japanese. Don’t the Estonians, Latvjans and Lithuanians also ‘hate’ the Russians even to this day? There are certain things that aren’t so easy to forgive and forget. I can’t really blame the Nanjing folks on this one.

        ps even to this day building constructionworks in Nanjing are often interrupted by old Japanese landmines discovered during foundation construction. these must have served as good reminders of the “good old days” I guess.

    • BrotherRiverCrab

      you can go ahead and take that “if” out of “If Europe when by this logic they’d be skullf*!@ing each other for an eternity.”

      2 World Wars and some ethnic cleansing in the last 100 years, let’s not pretend that they are not holding grudges.

    • WWD

      I think you’re all missing the point that it’s time to bomb the living shit out of North Korea. The Kim family all need to be killed, and at this point the rest of the North Koreans probably won’t mind being “collateral damage”. It’s a step up from their current situation.

      Amazing that China has no sense of loss of face for how its Northern proxy in the Korean War has fared compared to its economically-thriving, U.S.-supported neighbor to the South. But, then, maybe China still engages in the cynical tactics that would prefer an impoverished and unstable North Korea. It uses up a lot of energy & resources of its economic competitors.

      • http://baihaifeng.blogspot.com Dr. Jones Jr.

        Actually, I think they like regimes such as those in Myanmar, Zimbabwe, and N. Korea not just for practical purposes (i.e. making resource deals with dictators is easier/more profitable) but also because it makes the Chinese government look good by comparison. Granted, a comparison with the worst governments on the planet, but let us not forget that under Mao, China was one of those.

        And there, but for the grace of Deng Xiaoping, China might have remained. The Chinese are rightfully proud of having taken several steps above life as it plays out in North Korea, but that makes their collusion with the North Korean government all the more criminal, no?

        • mankouzanghua

          but for the grace of deng xiaoping? you’ve gulped down everything spit up by the bureaucrats who were purged by mao and returned after his death.

          for some strange reason, Chinese historical figures must all be either saints or devils in the eyes of most westerners. there is little attempt to understand them realistically.

          • k2000k

            Fair enough, but you will never convince westerners that Mao was a good leader it is like saying that while Stalin and Hitler killed many people they did many things that made their country better and stronger. Too a westerner it doesn’t matter, if a leader industrialized a nation or created the autobahn, the death of millions will forever outweigh it.

    • Richard Wang

      Paulo, I will try to answer your questions.
      Why do many Chinese hate their neighbours?
      1) Historical Reasons.
      To understand the Chinese psyche you need to know her history. Especially her modern history. For the last 300 years China suffered at the hands of Manchus, “Western Foreign Devils”, “Eastern Bandits” and the like. China feels she was not adequately compensated for her sufferings. China seeks revenge and retribution in order to correct this psychological imbalance.

      2) National Ambition
      China has the aspiration to become a great power once again, as they were in the Tang Dynasty. This is not unlike the Empire dream of Great Britain, Russia, America etc. This is a simple need for power both military and economic. China wants her neighbours to fear her and appease her like the old times.

      3) Political Ideology
      China, being the only real communist power left in the world feels lonely and suspicious of her surroundings. She has no friends or allies that are worth much. She only has strategic partners and fair-weather friends. China feels she cannot trust anyone. It is almost like a xenophobia. In contrast, the western democracies, India, Philippines, Korea and Japan has true alliances.

      When one comprehends these three points it is clear that the emotion hatred could serve the Chinese psyche well in this regard. This is the easy way out. The harder and more productive way is to build real relationships with her neighbours based on concrete need for peace and prosperity. War remains a dangerous children’s’ game played by adults and nations. The days of old Empire building by force are gone as demonstrated by Japan in WWII. What China needs is a new vision based on global partnership of substance. We are all in this together and there is only one Earth to share.

      • John

        I am glad most of you are not leaders making decisions because seriously it would be WW3. Most of you fail to understand the seriousness of the situation. A korean war would mean a Northeast Asia war which is a no-no win. Everyone will lose. Korea will lose, China will lose, Japan will lose, Asia will lose, every country in this world will lose as we are interconnected. This could spark a 3rd world war and with nukes in the game, it could mean the end of humanity and civilization. So you amateurs one think first before spreading stupidity. I appreciate the nationalism from each and everyone here but not valid in this case.
        As for Paulo comments, you make some intersting points. After living for a long time here, I have witnessed the display of some Chinese people disliking and hate towards their asian neighbours, not only towards them but also towards europeans, africans and other nationalities. The question is why ? What make foreigners so hateable? I see a lot of angry people here with their condescending remarks.

        As for Mr. Richard Wang, you do bring up some very intersting points. However let me remind you that great powers are recognized not through fear but through examples. I dont believe that in this new era China wants her neighbours to fear her and appease her like the old times. This is not the type of diplomacy that China is currently undertaking if not they would have made numerous ennemies. Most countries do not appreciate the use of fear against other countries. They just dont work best with the use of force. It didnt work with the US instead it found itself with a lot of ennemies. My guess would also be it wouldn’t work with China or even any country.
        Mr Wang, I also concur with you that China nor any country should forget their past. It is an essential part of a nation’s national identity. However if we are to move forward and have a better future for everyone, dont you think that we should pay more attention to future and a little less trying to live in the past. Pointing fingers wont get us anywhere instead it will only spread more animosity and hate. Anyway thats all I have to see. If you still wish to have a debate about the points. I am all arms.

        • 我 寻 欢

          I agree with you that if this turns into WW3 all Asian countries will lose…However, Americans will be the big winner here! Why?
          It is because WW3 will help fix American’s current ailing economy like WW2 did! With WW3, there will be plenty of jobs again in the US whose economy has always been based on defense industry. American make big money through sellling flighters jet, missles, guns…..and other weapons.

          • John

            I believe the US would not come out of this as a winner like it did in WW2. Allow me to explain my analysis. The world we live today is completely different than the world we lived
            yesterday. In what sense?

            First, back then, during that time, the world was divided into countries and colonial empires. The main key players were US, European colonial empire which had many colonies in Asia, Africa and Latin America under their rule representing over 50% of world territories, Japan, Russia and other countries. The level of interaction and interdependance economically and politically between these camps was pretty low. This lack of interaction led to misunderstandings which led to a World War 2. When WW2 started in 1937, it took the US 4 years to decide whether they would join the war, a war that it had nothing to do with. But when when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941, thats when the US got involved. By then, 4 years had already passed and European countries who desperately needed money to finance their war efforts already owed huge debts to the US. Asia, Europe came out of the war destroyed even Russia had suffered losses. US in spite of its favorable geographical posititon, suffered the least casualities and infrastructure damage and came out as a winner.

            But now, things are different. Many countries have gained their independence and sovereignty. The world is so interconnected than before that it is now a global village and there is no turning back. If one falls so do many. If US fall so do many. If Korea falls so do many, If Japan falls so do many, If China falls so do many, if others fall so do many. Think of the world as a spider web. If the rain falls
            , part of the web will fall and be disconnected(in this case a worldwide economic crisis), yet the spider can still stand up on its feet and rebuild its web ( economic recovery). However, if a storm was to pass by, it would wash the whole spider web out including to the spider(in this case a nucluar war and the end of civilization). The US took a heavy beating the last few years. Two more or less unsuccessful wars and a financial crisis yet to be recovered. This affected and is still affecting many countries in the world including China whose economy is closely linked to the US in terms of exports. So its either a win win situation or a lose-lose situation. Nobody is better off without the other. Another war would just add more problems to the US as it strives to repair its economy, contain the situation in Afghanistan and Iraq, and deal with terroism aimed at US soil. As for China, a Korean war would be a blow to China because South Korea is one of China’s major investors and trading partner, jobs are at stake and economy will do bad. A Korean war will spillover Chinese territories, Japanese territorities in which many other parties will be involved.

            This is my assessment of how WW3 would have devastating repercursions in our world. So we must be careful for what we wish for.

    • Anon

      That’s your own spin on this. Most comments here are scripted for certain agendas or to create anger between ‘other’ world powers and China. If you are stupid enough to believe the supposed ‘hate’ . . . go figure . . . unless you are also one of the script posters trying to establish the ‘fact’ of hatred between powers?

      In that case don’t even bother replying or posting anymore, whoever’s funding you will be made to serve you up on a platter in due course, as a form of ‘reparation’, consider yourself warned! Pick a better profession, otherwise disregard this post if you’re an ordinary civvie posting a ‘REAL’, and not scripted opinion by your masters.

      • John

        Anon, I appreciate the fact you took the liberty to exchange your views about the comments above. However,judging by your irrationnal reply, I can see you havent really read all the comments that have been spreading in this blog. You are right about one thing most comments here are scripted for certain agendas. However, I have no agenda. What I do is to state facts. I am not here to spread animosity between powers because that is not the topic of my analysis. But I am sure didnt know since you either havent read my comments at all or you havent fully grasped the topic of my comments. My topic is about what would be the repercurssions if a Korean war would break out. And my deduction, a korean war or a WW3 would be a no-no win. But I dont blame you for being such an emotional person. I am not pointing fingers like you are right now but instead making an analysis based on FACTS. So please refrain yourself and stop with the emotional threats.

        And also before I go, for you information my comments are not scripted. I am just ordinary person working in China trying to explain the importance of world peace and looking for exchange of intellectual ideas.

        • elenore

          Your a fool.You think World wide Trade is New?Enemies have traded during wars.U.S. would come out ahead,however I don’t think America needs a war to get past the recession.Michigan where Recessions(fake money by bankers and corrupt politicians) first start and first end is already showing growth.Why? America only needs 2 imports Coffee and OIL,the rest are just cheaper.Oil is already starting to be substituted for other things like natural Gas.Anyway,America makes money on exports especially natural resources like food,timber,coal etc..Wealth of a Nation doesn’t come from bank Notes,wars,etc..It comes from a Nations natural resources/Population.America and China are basically same size right however besides Coal,China has less naturals resources or even Arable farmland and less clean water.America needs less people to farm for our population in fact a good percentage of our farmers are producing for export and energy,China is the opposite.China has already been using parts of their natural resources for thousands of years,America hundreds,and yes I know about Great Lakes ancient people and other Native American Tribes however they were a small population and not really using vast amounts of natural resources,which are sitting there going to be used.America has so much arable land and water Detroit and it’s ridiculous huge Metropolis sits on top of some of the best farm land world wide As does many Rustbelt Cities.As long as there are people who needs resources that aren’t in their lands and they don’t have enough money to purchase, they will take it from weaker neighbors,that’s is why Americans can act the way we do,there isn’t really much we need to take and the resources we have make us wealthy to purchase what we do need,which isn’t much.America, I love our nation and People,but we are isolated,and we can afford to be morally superior,We have no enemies on our borders and need very little imports,our imports are for comfort,We have been exploiting trade World wide since we have been colonies and have had a higher standards of living since being a agricultural society.In fact 4 groups founded America,Merchants,Religious fanatics,independent people who want to be left alone,and Intellectuals.However we do make more in peace times than war times,or Corporations/Banks(banks don’t usually get their loan back from a War Nation think of WW1/2 and loan defaults except the U.S.) wouldn’t have protested the war manufacturing with private Corporations in the U.S. and well as Europe during World wars.Now why do most people think we make more at times of war,well most people are usually workers,and workers can demand better conditions and more pay and benefits during wars,immigrations is usually halted during wars as well as foreign wage slave employment,because navy being used for war instead of as a trade route which most of our naval bases are used during peacetime.Then nation at war usually make as much as possible at home to free up navy for war effort.If war were profitable banks/corporation would have more of them everywhere.

          • BARACK OBAMA

            NO ELEANOR, YOUR A FOOL, IT’S YOURS.

  • SHATOOPID!

    “Does South Korea dare? Seoul is completely within North Korea’s artillery range. Without China’s approval, would America dare intervene?”

    LOL what else would you expect from an ally?

  • http://lonelystrangergirl.xanga.com Kirsty

    Woah. I really liked the “3 points” comment. Smart netizen.

  • Smokeyroo

    Ummm… they have a large amount of (starving) troops, not a huge war budget, quite a few outdated submarines, jets and tanks. Citizens that are worse off than any country in the world. And they are extremely good at marching! Actually… wow… what good marchers!!

    Just strategically attack their bases in one foul swoop… then just own them all individually as they (awesomely) march around in circles not knowing what happened.

    Seriously… why do commies think being sweet at marching is intimidating?

    • http://www.ethansenglishcafe.com Ethan

      They have some of hte most well entrenched artillery in the world, almost impossible to stop without a full scale invasion and a great many large South Korean cities, like Seoul, are in their range. It’s the onlything that makes them dangerous but it does make them VERY dangerous for South Korea.

      Imagine if Iraq had entrenched artillery without striking distance of Washington and was willing and able to level the entire city before you could have any chance to stop them.

      • k2000k

        Good point Ethan. Ignoring the ramifications for US-Sino relations and the possibility of war breaking out between the two. The US could strike at North Korea without much to fear, in fact it is conceivable that the US could cripple North Korea before they could retaliate, however, there remains the possibility that North Korea isn’t entirely neutralized and that could result in the deaths of millions of Koreans living in Seoul.

  • bob

    we need….TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE!! and MATT DAMON of coarse;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R5dk0JY2xc

  • bunny99

    Kim wants the USA to bomb his uranium enrichment facility.

    If the USA bombs it Kim can show his people (and the world) how bad the USA is and he does not need to do anything else.

    If the USA does not bomb it then Kim’s people will expect him to build nuclear bombs and use them.

    Kim would rather not have to really build the bombs! Having a good reason to blame the USA is cheaper and easier.

  • bert

    Let’s see.

    If it was the other way around then China would be screaming bloody imperialist murder. But since her butt buddy the North did it China calls for peace and further study.

    It seems China and North Korea have a weird tributary state system going on. But it is China that is paying the North. Ha ha how pathetic.

    • Michael

      “If it was the other way around then China would be screaming bloody imperialist murder. But since her butt buddy the North did it China calls for peace and further study.”

      100% agree.

    • Chad

      The same thing goes for any country. Imagine if NK did this to the US or an EU country, there would be hell.

    • Chef Rocco

      If you know US’s reactions to Israel’s Gaza tortilla raid just a couple months ago, you would suspect if China’s statements about the artillery exchange was copied from White House’s statement: the United States “deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained, and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy.”

      Now you should understand that caution is a normal character if your ally did something surprised.

      • justin

        “If you know US’s reactions to Israel’s Gaza tortilla raid just a couple months ago”

        Did you just call it a “tortilla” raid? Please say your joking and you used that on purpose and you really know that a group of boats is called “flotilla.” “Tortilla raid” sounds like in Immigration raid of a tortilla factory.

        • Chef Rocco

          Good catch, a typo. spelling patrolling is welcome.

  • PWM

    Someday the people of China will “wake up and smell the coffee (or tea). The USA does not want the two Korea’s unified. When the Germany unified it almost broke the German government. South Korea does not the the financial capital required for unification.

    The USA is provoking the DPRK to do very stupid things. This will be a very bad reflection on China and hurt the Chinese economy. See how the Asian markets reacted and the value of the RMB. Wake up and stop being played by my government. I would suggest that someone in the PRC government send more liquor, porno movies and Russian hookers for the Kim family.

    • MoneyHoney

      the RMB is index to the us dollar. *just pointing that out, so any effect on the RMB is not possible, first the US dollar must be affected, thus then by proxy the RMB is effected

    • k2000k

      It is more plausible that China doesn’t want Korea united, or if it would be united, under a government that could be easily swayed by China. It is simple geopolitics and economics. A united Korea, presuming it unifies under the South Korean government, would presumably be oriented towards the United States and would be an even bigger economic powerhouse. Look at German, after the years it took to facilitate integration they are now the second largest exporting economy in the world. China already has to compete in very high end technology and military goods with the United States. Technology and high end products with Japan, South Korea, and Germany. Not to mention moderate and low priced goods from the rest of Asia and Eastern Europe. Given that Chinas economy is dependent on exporting and infrastructural expansion it isn’t in Chinas best interest. North Korea is a buffer for China both geopolitical, acting as an agent to leverage against US forces in the pacific, and economically. The U.S wouldn’t want a united Korea if it was oriented towards China, which isn’t implausible, but I consider the least likely of the two at this point in time, though that could change in the future.

  • Fman

    If China would have stayed out of the Korean conflict all of Korea would have been untied, democratic and free but now instead we have the free, prosperous, democratic south and the poor, oppressive, totalitarian crazy north (thank you China!). I think without a doubt the west can mop the shit hole of the north and China would do well to stay out of it this time.

    • http://baihaifeng.blogspot.com Dr. Jones Jr.

      Are you proposing that in this alternate-history, unified Korea, the Koreans would be dyslexic?

  • bobiscool

    From all the chinese people I know (and that’sabout 99% of the people I know), NONE of them supports North Korea.

    So don’t act as if all of China supports North Korea. I think GuoBao made a good point that China would be threatened if it antagonized North Korea.

    • Michael

      Yes, but the Chinese government will do anything to keep the current regime in place. From a collapse it fears an influx of refugees and the possibility of a democratic, unified Korea that is an ally of the west.

      • Chad

        No, they would probably like a unified Korea but not through war. The US is the one that wants a status quo because South Korea actually has the economy to buy all their weapons.

  • 水溶C100

    Can someone tell me why they don’t just let the North starve? I know it’s horrible and unethical BUT a hungry country would deal with the problem and the North would spend all of their time cleaning up…

    Just a question… kinda stupid I know..

    • bobiscool

      Maybe because when they’re starving and desperate, they will start attacking everyone?

      I’m no strategist or politician, but that’s a logical answer that comes to my mind

    • SauLan

      We have all already let the North starve, for decades.

  • Fort

    I FULLY SUPPORT SOUTH KOREA!!!!! and if we do go to war i will go to south korea and protect Kara and SNSD and Girls generation etc etc etc

    PS PISS OF USA AND PISS OF NORTH KOREA

    • voidness

      I will join you comrade !!

  • HansDampf

    3,2,1… FIGHT!
    Time to play the warrior song !

    This is THE opportunity for the US Government to provoke China. Make clear commitments to the South without approval of China and act upon made commitments. That will be a most difficult situation for China is the US actively supports the South without permission.
    China’s only way is to let go of the North now or be easily tricked in a difficult situation later.

    • WWD

      Newsflash: There is not now, nor ever will be, an American mindset that for one second considers any need for “permission” from China to send the U.S. Navy into any international waters. Moreover, on a day when they’re feeling pissy, the U.S. navy doesn’t worry about permission, from anyone, to go into ANY waters. They might go in & out of them all the time, and not notify anyone such that the question of “permission” ever comes up.

      Not giving a political opinion, just a reality check.

      • HansDampf

        a) The US is absolutely not keen on damaging relations with China or anyone for that matter over trivial things as territory rules.
        b) it wasnt my point that the US forces can enter particular waters… there is a political strategic move possible for the US to put China in a difficult situation, that’s all.

  • Chinese

    Enough is enough. Stop fucking around North Korea
    China should not involve at all. Just let those Koreans fight.
    If we were to go to war, we should join force with America and South korean, to burn North Korea into dust.
    Even if I am chinese, I fucking hate these people playing with people’s life.

  • csk

    As a South Korean, I was shocked to be attacked by North.
    In these days, a day struggling for peace, we must harmonize with each other. But this one sided attack, we can and should counterattack……. Some fucking policians say we must calm down and just endure it. Got damn! They must be a spy from Fatty Kim. We need to wipe out all of them and peacefully step to unification. If I can be president…..

    • lol

      but are you ready to sacrifice seoul?

    • whichone

      You want to peacefully wipe out…Lee Myung-bak?

  • Stouffa

    Fauna, are you being disingenuous when you say you don’t know what the poster means by ‘the west’? The original is ‘ximian’, not ‘xifang’- seems clearly to me it means the area west of Korea, ie China. The west incites North Korea, the west gives North Korea food, the west needs dialogue with the USA, the west calls for 6-party talks… could it means anything other than China?

    [Note from Fauna: Why do you think I am being disingenuous? I have considered that suggestion but since I have never heard people call China "ximian", I was not sure. I am not an expert about Korean politics so maybe that is why, but I do not think you should accuse me of being disingenuous. I do not want to translate something incorrectly when I am unsure.]

    • Stouffa

      Sorry, no accusation intended! I meant ‘disingenuous’ lightly- ‘coy’ might have been a better word. I mean, it must be at least 90% certain that the poster means China, right? I can think of literally nothing else that could match that description. So I thought you might be joking about not being sure what it’s referring to. Absolutely no offence intended!

      • Stouffa

        In fact, to add to that… I thought the original post was being deliberately coy- subtly referring to China in a ‘nudge nudge wink wink’ kind of way. After all, that China provoked it is one hell of an accusation! So I thought you were echoing that ‘nudge nudge wink wink’ in your own translation- being all innocent about what it means. In short… I asked that because I think you’re really good at translating things- and there’s no disingenuity in that remark!

  • pervertt

    This is what happens when you spoil little children. They become petulant brats, throwing tantrums when they can’t get what they want. Time for Beijing to bring out the feather duster and discipline its wayward child. A few corrective whacks has always worked wonders for generations of Chinese children.

  • Hongjian

    I fully support China’s current decision in this case.

    North Korea must remain China’s buffer-zone.
    400.000 Chinese soldiers died fighting against the US and to save North Korea, so that the American may remain on their side of the Yalu-river. So, why the hell should China ever allow a collapse of North Korea and risking 30.000 US soldiers standing at their border, pointing their guns at the industrial centers and granaries of Manchuria?!

    All these moralfags here who have issues with the oppresive North may go fuck themselves. This case here is one of China’s most vital questions of national security.
    IF the North or the South, or anyone else further escalates this conflict, China MUST stand behind their buffer-zone and defend it at all cost.
    A forced reunification at the current South Korean’s terms, and with the involvement of the US should never be allowed by China.

    Seeing the recent developments, the US decided to escalate it by sending the CVN George Washington into the Yellow Sea.
    This is a clear message to China, that the US has an itching trigger finger and ready to take on North Korea.

    China must prepare for the worst and ready their missile batteries along the gulf and their Northern Divisions of the Shenyang Military Region, so when the shit hits the fan, China may deploy quickly into North Korea and deter the US and the South from doing anything reckless.

    • 老外

      I can tell you for sure, if China tries to defend North Korea, it will be the end of communism in China. America will force China to kneel at her feet; every major city in China will be engulfed in flames; their manufacturing base will be totally destroyed, and If they try anything funny, mushroom clouds will dominate the horizon over Beijing.

      Just kidding, we have Barack Obama! We’ll kneel to China instead, even though we have the capacity to wreck their shit within hours.

      • Hongjian

        WWIII will not happen, when China decides to get involved for the sake of deterrence.

        The US would risk a nuclear war over a small, oversea ally, while China is determined to protect their immediate backyard.

        This alone tells anyone, who should back off and who not.

        The US is not threatened by North Korea, but China is threatened by North Korea’s collapse at the hand of the US.

        So the US should know China’s resolve, that cannot be compared with their own reason of simple ‘alliance obligation’ when they decide to attack the North.

        So, with enough own soldiers in North Korea and with a mobilzed Second Artillery Missile Force, China can pretty much show America that they, when they truely decide to invade, will risk more themselves over less, than China is willing of.

        This deterrence alone would be enough for both sides to calm down – no need for Obama.

      • aznjtse

        US wrecking China?
        good luck with that when the US cant even establish themselves fully in Afganistan and Iraq..look at all the problems they are having.. if they cant even get shit done there, how do you expect them to fight China

    • World Opinion

      All this talk about war between China and USA is so immature and amateurish. Both countries have nuclear weapons. That should be the ultimate deterrent…not only for US and China, but the world. If there’s going to be a war, it will be an economic one.

      People talk about North and South Koreans as if they are different race of people. Keep in mind that they are not. They are the same people…literally brothers and sisters. Like East and West Germany, north and south Vietnam, and the North and South in the U.S., eventually, there will be a strong desire for them to reunite as a country regardless of external influences.

    • Zhongguo Ren

      China fought a war to make North Korea what it is today, a slave state where people are systematically abused and starved. It is like the Great Cultural Revolution but it never ends.

      The US fought against China and the stalemate meant only South Korea is free.

      So the ugly truth….

      South Korea is free and prosperous because of the United States.
      North Korea is a slave state because of China.

      If you start apologizing now and apologize full time for the next 10,000 years, you will not make up the terrible damage China has brought upon the Korean people.

      You go now..the truth hurts your sensitive ears.

      • Hongjian

        Feels good man.

        You are obvious to the fact that North Korea was a industrial powerhouse during the 60′s, far exceeding the South in terms of infrastructure and production.

        This wasnt because of China, who was starving back then, this was because of their own, clever policies and the support of the Soviet Union.

        North Korea’s famine in the 90′s was also not because of China or the USSR (though, partly because of their crumbling), but becasue of the retarded policy of Kim junior.

        You just cannot throw everything in the “China is responsible for everyone and his cat” -pot, even though you call yourselfs a “Chinese” (though I doubt it).

        North Korea SHOULD BE a slave to China, for alll I care. But sadly they arent. If they were, they would have been forced to copy Deng-styled economic reforms a decade ago, and wouldnt have a independent nuclear program, which is completely unsanctioned by China.

        What North Korea is now, is what we call a ‘Buffer State’.
        North Korea is a Chinese ‘client’, loosely associated with her by economic dependence but internal policital independence.
        China tolerates this, because she doesent want the “Free South Korea” and their “freedom loving american troops” to stand at the Yalu-river, as mentioned before.

        But anyway. The North Koreans starved, as the Chinese starved back then. What is wrong about that? Moral and politics are incompatible with each other. Or else, the Americans wouldnt have allowed Japanese warcriminals to continue human experimentations with Chinese and North Korean POW’s during Korean War either.

        Go cry me a river. North Koreans, and South Koreans all can die a horrible death for what China and even the US cares, as long as both of their political objective of containing each other is met.

        Also, if you are a real ‘Zhongguoren’, then you just proved what bunch of retarded, naiive and gullible bunch of children most chinese netizens are, for not understanding how world politics are working.
        Seriously, your cry-baby post is worse than all these fanatic catlovers and attention-whores in the western internet altogether.

        Chinese intenet censorship sure did its work. You are a totally uninformed, ignorant and naiive specimen of netizen.

    • dim mak

      I disagree this time

      What reason would the US have for posting troops near the border if North Korea wasn’t there/wasn’t a problem? I doubt a unified Korea or even current South Korea would host US troops if they didn’t have a problem up north. Unless you seriously believe the US would invade by land through South Korea… it is essentially a buffer zone against nothing.

      • Hongjian

        North Korea is just a strawmen.

        Dont be naiive to think that the US would care about Korea alltogether, if there wasnt a bigger threat behind it.

        Back then in the Korean War, it was the US policy of containing the spread of Communism and the influence of the USSR, that made them to participate in the war and to stay in asia after that.

        All American ‘alliance obligations’ with South Korea, are worthless, if only the North is eyed by them as a threat, since South Korea herself is strong enough to deter the North singlehandely.

        No. Just like back then, it is a bigger threat to the US, that makes them stay there: China.

        China, as a rising power and declared rival of the US, has to be contained at all costs.
        The unified Korea would automatically become a staging ground for the largest US deterence and containment contigent even before Japan.

        North Korea is not a threat to the US. Their missiles can only hit a small part of Alaska, and their economy is ‘non-present’ in the world, as well as their political influence and military.

        China, on the other hand, can reach the US with missiles, economy, politics and immigaration. Easily.

        And whith the US in a recession and the general feeling of ‘losing the race’, they are very keen in using every bit of chance to throw stones on China’s road of modernization.

        No. the US will stay. Forever, for what they care. North Korea is just a useful legitimation.

        • dim mak

          I have no question the US wants to continue staying in Korea, but what I’m asking is: Would the Koreans allow it? Because I seriously doubt the US can force a unified Korea, or even current South Korea, to accept US bases without their approval.

          • Hongjian

            Well, whether the occupied ‘partner’ nation wants or not, was never a question for the Americans.

            Just look what happened to Hatoyama when he wanted the US to GTFO of Okinawa.
            The US would instigate another Cheonan-incident, this time ‘by China’, and the South Koreans would be so scared, that they gratefully accept another 28.000 american troops in their nation. And the South Korean PM who wanted the US to go home, will be ousted or forced to resign.

            This should show everything about this whole conflict.
            The one that causes the Koreans to be seperated from each other is the US.
            China has no interest in attacking south korea, nor do they want to attack Japan, even though lots of people hate them guts. An unified Korea without US-troops would be no problem for China, and the Koreans can enjoy lasting peace in the region.
            The US, on the other hand, will still make risk war in an unified Korea, because they will just become another military bullwark – this time against China.

            Around the US; never relax.

    • Da Duzi

      What are you talking about? The US has an “itchy trigger finger and ready to take on North Korea”?
      For one, we have no interest in another war right now. We are still struggling with all of the foolishness in the Middle East (our own fault mostly).
      Two, what would we gain by conquering North Korea? They have no resources. The only thing they have to export is poverty and hunger.
      Thirdly, we do not want to get involved in North Korea because it would put us at odds with China.
      There are many commentators here who believe that Americans hate the Chinese or that we want to fight them in a war.
      I know many Americans who are unhappy because a lot of our industry has been out-sourced to China, but I have never, in all my life, met anyone who hates the Chinese. No offense, but Americans don’t think about the Chinese much at all. China is a world away and we have not been enemies for a Long time.
      If there Is a people group we hate these days, it is the Arabs, but not all of us feel that either. America is full of people from every nationality – including many, many Chinese – and these days it is shameful to even Admit that you have a prejudice. Prejudice certainly still exists, but it is generally considered a mark of ignorance and a red neck.
      We don’t hate the Chinese. Where did this idea come from?
      As for war with China, if and when the subject comes up, the immediate reaction American people have is that it would be a BAD idea. It would be nearly impossible for either side to actually win, and the only result would be death, destruction, and an economic black hole that would suck in the whole world.
      We will protect our ally, if North Korea continues to attack it, but we want peace in this region. If you don’t want our ships in the area, then tell Kim to stop attacking. You think an aircraft carrier is provocation? What do you consider an artillery barrage on a civilian region? North Korea has made two serious attacks on the South recently. Wars have started over less.
      If China wants to keep North Korea as a buffer, that is certainly reasonable, but North Korea is also China’s responsibility. South Korea is doing just fine – the Koreans are certainly capable – but North Korea is a mess. If you don’t want instability in the region, than put your foot down on the insanity that is going on there. If you don’t want America involved in North Korea’s government, then you should take care of it yourselves. Let that incompetent regime collapse and give them a proper government.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marvin-Wells/100003039020163 Marvin Wells

      > So, why the hell should China ever allow a collapse of North Korea and risking 30.000 US soldiers standing at their border, pointing their guns at the industrial centers and granaries of Manchuria?!

      Why would we do this?

  • 老外

    To be honest, China would be foolish to provoke a conflict with the United States. They aren’t yet powerful enough to make a dent. We’d have all their manufacturing and major cities in ruins before they could say “Uncle.”

    If it gets bad enough, they’d get their shit ruined faster and worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    • Hongjian

      And the US would be foolish to risk war with China over a stupid little ally on the other end of the world, totally unrelated with the US home-security, which is secured by a large-ass ocean in between.

      The US shouldnt underestimate China’s resolve. China’s national-security wiull be threatened directly with te fall of the North, so China will be very very keen to protect North Korea.

      It’s the US who will puss out in this one. The US has a lot to lose over nothing (South Korea), while China has equally a lot to lose about a lot (North Korea buffer zone) – guess’ who has the greater resolve here, and who would not take the risk.

      • HelloWorld

        True, war is not the answer and both the USA and the Chinese leaders know this. Both the USA and China will lose greatly. Though, if it came down to a War, I could envision India and Japan attacking China on Two separate fronts while S. Korea and the USA attack through N. Korea. A small country such as Japan conquered China not too long ago, and I believe that they have the superior technlogy to do it again. Russia would probably also join the fight and attack China from the North since Russia is keen to reclaim disputed terretories. The only defense for China would be nuclear defense which all countries would resist using since it would guarantee mutual destruction given that Russia, India, and the USA all have nuclear weapons. So, no one wants another useless war. Not China, not the USA, not the rest of the world.

        • bobiscool

          I don’t know, I don’t think Russia has any disputed territories left. THey’ve all gone to Russia, from what I understand. But I could be wrong.

          Regardless, what does India, Japan have to gain by attacking China? Nothing. But we can be assured that they will at least incur some loss. Thus I doubt they would do that.

      • 0311

        HongJian,

        Coming from a Former US Marine I must admit u make some great points.

        Your view on China’s stance makes perfect sense to me and honestly never thought about it that way.

        I do however disagree with your point that you felt the US is trying to escalate things by deploying ships. I do not think that is a show of force to China. The US has had battle groups in the area ‘for 50 years. The USMC can be on any shore within a day. China knows this… No surprise to the Chinese government or any government that ships would be deployed… I mean when this news broke what was your first thought???

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marvin-Wells/100003039020163 Marvin Wells

        >The US shouldnt underestimate China’s resolve. China’s national-security wiull be threatened directly with te fall of the North, so China will be very very keen to protect North Korea.

        How much?

    • bob

      trust me…China is much more powerful then the US and if it was a straight out war between them both, my moneys on China…..China can ruin and cripple the US without even shooting a single pistol….also the US will never dare to be first to go nuclear again, not after the Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents.

      • HelloWorld

        China is more powerful than USA? In what way? Regardless, China has much, or more, to lose than the USA. China needs high and fast economic growth to keep the Country together and lift close to a billion people out of crushing poverty. China cannot even feed itself yet. If the Western Countries just stopped shipping food and we got the US Arab allies in the Middle East to stop the Oil, China will collapse. Also, Western factories can be relocated out of China and the USA can just stop paying U.S. government debt to China. There will be massive civil unrest in China. So, China has as much to lose, if not more, than the USA. Though, if we learned anything from the last century (and from the last ten years), we should by now realize that War is not an answer. N. Korea is run by lunatics and their latest ploy is to gain more concessions from the rest of the civilized world. Chinese leaders are too smart to play into the hands of N. Korea. China is now part of the greater world economy: Chinese leaders don’t want to take China back two centures by starting or supporting an useless war between the two Koreas.

        • bobiscool

          I think the key point, is not who will incur a more devastating loss, but that the loss for any party is greater than the gain caused by a war.

          As long as the net result is a loss, there is no reason for a country to go to war, regardless of how much the other party is damaged. That’s assuming they make rational decisions, of course.

          So even if the West “can” cripple China, It won’t. The loss is much, much greater than the gain.

    • Hongjian

      China may not be able to target the US home-soil directly, but, according to the latest USCC China report published on 17 Nov; China can very well utterly destroy any US presence (which means US military-bases) in the whole asia-pacific region with the NON-nuclear force they CURRENTLY have.
      And yes, this analysis even counts in the US ABM-systems and their Aegis-defense cruisers and -destroyers.

      Quote:
      [quote]The PLA’s current missile force alone may be sufficient to close
      down U.S. air bases in the region in the event of a conflict between
      China and the United States. According to Mr. Hagen’s research,
      only 30–50 missiles would be necessary to ‘‘overload and kill air defenses,
      cover all of the open parking areas with submunitions to destroy
      aircraft parked there, and crater runways such that aircraft
      cannot take off or land.’’ The addition of a similar amount of cruise
      missiles would complicate the air defense scenarios, destroy aircraft
      shelters, and damage fuel and maintenance facilities.[/quote]

      http://www.uscc.gov/annual_report/2010/annual_report_full_10.pdf

      So, even though the US wont have to fear a real nuclear strike on the US home soil by China, they would severely risk to lose ALL of their asian assets, and thus, be denied of any further containment/hegemonial policies in the whole western-pacific region.

      And yes, China would go that far. North Korea is China’s ‘core-interest’, and they would go great lenghts to protect that core-interest.
      America, on the other hand, risks to lose all means of their regional power-projection abilities for attempting to destroy a nation (North Korea), that is only very remotely threatening to the US.

      If this is worth the lost for the US or for Obama? I doubt it.

      • Vertigo

        The uscc.gov report you brought up does not back your assertion that China is capable of wiping out all US military presence in asia with missiles alone. The report only mentions that China is capable of shutting down US air bases by destroying the runways which allows planes to land/take off. China still has to deal with the ground and naval forces as well as several carrier fleets+airforce that will arrive shortly afterwards.

        China also has to deal with the militaries of those countries you just bombed(South Korea, Japan, etc). And lets be honest here, Chinas military tech is still primitive compared to what the US, Korea and Japan has. You would have to be a complete idiot to believe China would stand a chance against the US.

        The US could easily bomb the shit out of China from half a world away. We’re talking about mass bombings on China’s military bases, factories, farms, supplies and roads. The complete and utter destruction of China’s infrastructure. China may have the largest army in the world, but that army needs food, weapons and fuel to function. No food= no war.

        It wont be like China’s guerilla resistance against the Japanese. It would be more like China starving to death until they accept unconditional surrender terms. The US could completely destroy China without having to even set foot on it.

        • Hongjian

          dream away.

          You obviously arent a follower of the PLA modernization as I am since my time at the German Federal Forces Academy, where we often had sessions about the Chinese armed forces and their capabilities…

          Just one thing I have to say; China’s army isnt that primitive as the western mainstream always portray it to be. The PLA isnt an army that is only using ‘soviet hand-me-downs’ and soviet doctrines.

          If anything, China has attained a level of access-denial/area-denial capability, that is far superceeding that of the USSR during the height of their time.

          Every US base wont be “shut-down”, as this fairly conservative (and very late) report suggests, but CHina can absolutely obliterate all movable assets on them, and render all meaningful US operations in the west pacific impossible.

          back then in 2008 we came to the conclusion, that China’s ability of regional area-denial was to be counted with, up to Guam – now, 2 years later, it could very well be further extended, or enhanced, which is the question of the operational-readiness of the new Qing-class SSG..

          In every case, the US and their asian puppets wont have an easy play with China, even when they managed to break through the defense-lines of cruise missiles and IRBM’s (up to 2500km), the SSK’s and their advanced, deep-rising mines (within 2500km), the SRBM’s and ASBM’s (up to 2000km), the Type 022 FAC-packs and other surface combattants (within the first island-chain) and the coastal missile batteries.

          Even if the US manage to somehow break through these lines with limited casaulties, that still enables them to engage in meaningful offensive activities, experts doubt that these units would manage to survive the very modern chinese SAM-networks protecting their vital infrastructure for long, without moving in with their decimated gound forces, and thus, enabling the chinese to excel with their traditional warfare doctrine: Ground War in Asia.

          The fact that China in the recent year are concentrating in buildig large-tonnage landing ships and the completion of the Varyag CV, suggests that they feel secure enough with their traditional off-shore defense plan, and could now spare the resources for developing their first power-projection capabilities.

          Anyway. The US wont be able to attack China in any meaningful form of military operation, as it is now. Whoever dares to move within China’s surrounding periphery, moved into the “dragon’s liar”, as it is called by the guys at Jane’s.

          That’s why it is not understandable for me, why the hell the US sent their CVBG around George Washington into the mouth of the dragon: the Yellow Sea, which is surrounded by 80% Chinese controlled coastline, from which massive saturation strikes alone could sink it easily – and this, even without China’s new “Yaogan” satellite network and fancy UAV’s.

          Might be as well Obama’s naivety and lack-of-concept in dealing with China and their interests in the region.

          • fred mork

            If this stuff works as well as my hot water heater, you guys are in trouble.

          • Vertigo

            You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Like I said earlier, only an idiot believes China would stand a chance against the US. The report you brought up states that China would only shut down US airbases by destroying the runways. It does not mention anyhwere that China is capable of wiping out all US military prescence in asia. Quit exaggerating, its not like the people here dont know how to read English. Even if China could destroy all US bases, what next? Within weeks China would have to deal with the entire US navy, airforce as well as the armies of its allies. The US has logistics all around the world, China doesn’t. The US could shut off China’s access to oil which would basically neuter Chinas ability to wage war.

            China’s military is primitive. We can argue in circles all day long but facts are facts. China’s airforce is a complete joke. It has no method of countering the USAF. Does China have anything in its arsenal that can stop the F-22? Chinas airforce is nothing more then modified Soviet/Russian planes. China would be humiliated if they tried to invade Korea or Japan. In fact they would be hard pressed to invade any of its Asian neighbors(barring Mongolia).

            China only has a handful of ICBMs that could reach the US. And considering the quality of Chinas technology, im willing to bet a significant number of them wont function properly. The rest could potentially be shot down. The US on the other hand has thousands of ICBMS, long and medium range ballistic missiles on the go. China has no way of shooting them down. Who cares if the PLA has a gazillion SAMs or a “modern” area of denial system. All of that, could be destroyed with the press of a button from thousands of miles away. US missiles would target every single significant military target in China as well as its factories, farms, gaslines, logistics and supplies. And once this happens, China is pretty much screwed. How would the PLA wage war when it cant even feed its army? The US would just firebomb China’s farms from thousands of miles a way. Fast forward 1 month and China would have either surrendered or face a level of starvation that would make the Great Leap forward look like a time of plenty. No food= no army= no war.

            And lets say a ground war were to erupt. Even then, China would lose horribly. This isn’t 1950 where superior numbers could easily overrun enemy positions. In modern warfare, technology is everything. A couple of well placed missiles can efficiently wipe out an entire army of infantry in seconds. US, Korean and Japanese tanks shoot further and more accurately then Chinese tanks by a wide margin. What does all of this this mean? It means they can destroy Chinese tanks before Chinese tanks even have a chance to fire their weapons. It doesnt matter if the PLA has a significant numerical advantage. This isn’t 1950.

            Watch the video I posted below. The fun start at the 1:55 minute mark. Notice how insignificant ground units and vehicles are against a single US gunship. In war, the US and its allies would have complete dominance of the skies which makes any manpower advantage by the PLA insignificant.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0M1m05rpq8&feature=related

          • Hongjian

            “Does China have anything in its arsenal that can stop the F-22?”

            L-Band Long Wave Anti-Stealth Radar, such as the YLC-20 long-range detection radar network.

            Yagi-antennae operating in the meter-wave lenght as mounted on China’s Type 052C AEGIS destroyers.

            S-300PMU2 Long Range SAM complex.

            HQ-9 Long Range SAM system.

            HHQ-16 Medium Range SAM system.

            PL-12/SD-10A BVR-AAM with combined active passive guidance modes, passively homing on the radar-beam of the F-22 and destroy it without the pilot even noticing it. Stealth is fine, but the F-22 has to switch on its long-ranged AESA radars once and for a while if he wishes to shoot ‘obsolete chinese fighters’ down… And the longer range the F-22′s radar has, the earlier the chinese fighter pilot can send his PL-12 on its way.

            Yaogan-satellite network coupled with synthetic aperture radars and real-time observation systems.

            Should I go on? There are at least 100 other items to be mentioned.

            Seriously. Do not try to debate with me in terms of China’s military. You will only embarrass yourself, because I feel that everything you know about weapons and military comes from COD4 and BFBC2 etc.

          • Vertigo

            You have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. The HQ-9 has a max attack range of 200km. The HHQ-16 has a range of 50km. The S-300PMU2 has a range of 195km.

            The USAF has long range air to surface missiles(fired from aircraft) that cannot be shot down by SAMs. The JASSM-ER has an attack range of over 800km. 800 whopping kms. JASSM-ER can attack both stationary and moving targets from hundreds of kilometers away. The USAF is capable of destroying every single one of those SAMs you listed from hundreds of kms away. What exactly can China do about it? Send its airforce to try and counter the USAF? Are you forgetting that the PLAAF is still primitive compared to the USAF and would easily lose most air engagements?

            The F-22 may not be designed to carry JASSMs due to its air superiority role but it will provide assistance to other aircraft such as the stealthed B-2 that would deliever the killing blow to China’s air defense. A single B-2 can carry 16 JASSMs. Each JASSM powerful enough to destroy a SAM. The US army also plans on releasing the SMACM very soon. The SMACM is basically a mini JASSM with a range of over 400km and can be fired from F-22s.

            To make matters worse for the PLA, the F-22 features perhaps the most advanced stealth system in the world right now. The range of those SAMs would be reduced even further due to the difficulty in detecting the F-22 and other stealth planes. There is no guarantee that China’s radars would even be able to detect the F-22 efficently. China has yet to actually test their radars on the F-22. And its not like it even matters because every single radar outpost on China will be be blown away with guided missiles from far far away.

            Its very easy to destroy a stationary target from 50km away. Its also easy to destroy a target moving 40 mph. But its very very difficult to destroy a moving target that is tens of thousands of feet in the air and traveling at several times the speed of sound while hundreds of kms away. The F-22 is not only one of the fastest planes in the world right but also the most manueverable. Whereas SAMs are generally immobile, and easy targets.

            And lets say for a second that those SAMs you listed could in fact shoot the F-22 down. So what! The US could destroy those SAMs with ballistic missiles from hundreds of miles away before even deciding to send the USAF into China. China does not have the technology to reliably shoot down ballistic missiles. I cant believe we are having this debate. Anyone with a brain knows that the US would annihilate China in an all out war. The US spends almost half of the worlds military budget for petes sake.

            ————————–
            “”"Seriously. Do not try to debate with me in terms of China’s military. You will only embarrass yourself, because I feel that everything you know about weapons and military comes from COD4 and BFBC2 etc.”"”"
            ————————–

            I lol’d. You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Most military experts in China probably realize that they would lose to the US. Here are some facts

            The US possess thousands of ballistic missiles that can reach China and turn it into rubble. Every major military complex, factory, farm and vital logistic would be annihilated. As of 2010, CHINA HAS NO RELIABLE METHOD OF SHOOTING DOWN THOSE MISSILES. Without farms, how would the PLA feed itself? Without oil, how would the PLA mobilize its war machines? Without factories, how would the China build more weapons after they’ve all been destroyed?

            On the other hand, China has no reliable method of damaging US infrastructure. What is your counter remark to this simple fact? What exactly can China do afterwards?

            Why dont you quit playing video games and masturbating to pictures of your favorite PLA officers.

          • Vertigo

            Once China’s SAMs are destroyed, China is basically helpless. Its airforce would be entirely useless against the superior tech of the USAF.

            Without any SAMs to protect their assets, US Bombers would be free to bomb every single vital asset in China. And its not like China would be able to build more SAMs and aircraft to counter the US bombers. The USAF would immediately bomb every single factory, steel plant, fuel depot and infrastructure necessary for the construction of new SAMs, Tanks, Aircraft and even bullets.

            No more production = no more war. China surrenders shortly afterward. Unless they plan on fighting the US army with spears and bows.

            Game over kid. Nice try though, you should quit playing call of duty.

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  • bobiscool

    If war occurred between China and US, probably the US would win. But it would be no more than a Pyrrhic victory.

    Sure, the US can bomb China. But China can bomb the US as well. The difference in their military isn’t so big that China would not be able to retaliate at all. Also, millions of Chinese live in the US. Do you think none of them would do anything? Crime rates within the US would probably raise very high.

    Now, even after every Chinese person has been annihaliated off the face of the Earth, the US will still continue to suffer. It’s lost it’s biggest trading partner.

    That’s assuming that other countries won’t take this great opportunity to join in the war, of course. But I doubt that.

    • oingo Boingo

      Who do you think the FEMA camps are for? yes… its all starting to fall into place now.

      Also forget China Vs the US, they’ll be up against NATO, India has just sent 36’000 mountain troops plus to its China border, Mongolia has joined NATO and Britain’s extremely fearful subs even put the USA’s in the shadow.

      It won’t go nuclear but for sure if China twitches, it’ll be goodbye because internal unrest will splinter the place once westerners realize they can get by without Barbie dolls and marker pens. Western countries can “make do and mend”, China is far too embedded in the comfort zone of creature comforts.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marvin-Wells/100003039020163 Marvin Wells

        > Who do you think the FEMA camps are for? yes… its all starting to fall into place now.

        Oh please, dont tell me we would do again what we did the Japanese Americans.

  • World Opinion

    South Korean military and government are incompetent. One event after another, it has shown the world and its own citizens that they are unable to respond to attacks by the North.

  • World Opinion

    And how can you fight a war when the young men in your country are looking and acting more and more like girls? Have you guys seen South Korean men these days?

    • Chef Rocco

      I haven’t seen many, but I did see a Korean poster’s smiling picture right on chinasmack, looking girly.

  • 我 寻 欢

    If this turns into an all out war it may then drag the American and the Chinese into it too! We are witnessing the making of WW3 folks! American has sent their warships into the region and will not hesitate to use force! This is because a board range of WW3 will save American’s economy as it did with WW2. North Korean’s new 20 some year old leader, Kim Jong Un has fallen into the American’s trap by attacking the South.
    His stupid action give the American a reason to start WW3!

    • 0311

      WOW r u for real?

    • Hongjian

      this is a very severe case indeed.

      But as long as China is behind North Korea, nothing will happen.
      The US will never risk to lose all their bases and offensive assets in the region just because of two dead south korean soldiers.

      A burning CVN and several sunk warships in the yellow sea will show the american hegemonists that touching China’s client, and thus actively threatening China’s core-interest of national security is a VERY BAD idea.

      • pervertt

        Do you really think China will sacrifice the lives of its soldiers to save Fat Boy Kim and Sons?

        • Hongjian

          China wont sacrifice people for him, but just for herself.

          North Korea must remain a buffer-zone. This is reason enough for China to do everything to protect his regime, up to active deterrence.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marvin-Wells/100003039020163 Marvin Wells

            Ok, ok, so suppose there is a war between NK and SK and SK wins.

            WHATS THE WORST that could happen to China (realistically) by not having the geographical distance?

  • 大 李 飞 刀

    These Koreans need to get their head examined! Why do you want to kill your own brothers and sisters? North or South….these are still Koreans not the freaking Lao Wai 老外 !

    [Note from Fauna: Please do not use multiple names. Contact us if you have a question.]

  • aznjtse

    China should just annex korea and make it its 24th province after taiwan..then force japan into giving up kyushu shikoku and okinawa to China as wartime repatriations

    • Hongian

      Fucking agree.

      Diaoyutai also should be returned to China and the Okinawa base should be China’s new naval base of power-projection within beyond the first Island-chain.

      The Japanese always forget how lightly they got away with their wartime past, unlike Gemrany. Damn Mao and Deng for it, who forgave the Japanese their reparations… And most of all, damn the fucking Americans and General FagArthur, the eternal enemy of the Chinese people!

      • Hongian

        *within beyond*

        within AND beyond

      • Aznjtse

        @hongjian sorry to break it to you man but I’m an American born Chinese I don’t hate America I just think they should stay out of the far east

        • Ming

          Why do foreign-born Chinese even care about China? I mean, seriously, half of them barely know how to say Mandarin…

          • dr love

            apparently you barely know how to “say” english

  • me

    stop, war is not the way people are dying all the one’s who put up negative comments are you ready to die ???

  • HansDampf

    @Hongjian: I feel very sorry for you.

    • brew

      Yeah….he has got to be mentally ill

    • isenkrammer

      this guy is not Hongjian. look at the name carefully. this guy here is called Hongian and is most likely Chinese national. it’s a Shanzhai don’t you get it?

  • Koreansentry

    This was foolish move from Pyongyang. They shouldn’t have done this to pissed off S.Koreans. Now they have real reason to isolate Pyongyang. Not good when your nation is surviving from donations from 6 nations and S.Korea was one of the biggest donor.

    • Chef Rocco

      South Korea’s better continue to be the biggest donor, or it might be biggest cemetery one day. Everybody knows what a beggar with a pistol is capable of when starving..

    • moody

      Pyongyang’s attitude is simply stupid
      They don’t care much for anything
      I guess that killing everybody, their own people included is somehow part of the plan -and probably starting the third worl war-
      “death solves all problems. no man, no problem” Joseph Staline …

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marvin-Wells/100003039020163 Marvin Wells

        Stalin didnt say it, it came from the book “Children of Arbat” by Anatoly Rybakov. He admitted that he made the quotation up.

  • Justin

    I subscribe to the Big Mac Theory of Diplomacy, which is: “Any two countries that have the Big Mac will never go to war with each other,” which is to say countries that trade with each other and have multinational corporations and free markets don’t go to war with each other. North Korea is the lone hold out without any Big Macs.

    Trade heals all wounds and the fact that China trades with everyone and everyone depends on China is key to maintaining peace in the world. I don’t think North Korea will ever go to war with South Korea because China has economic ties with both and with the U.S. No one wants war because war is bad for business. It’ just like in the Godfather. No one wants to go to the mattresses.

    • Alex

      That theory was already proven wrong by the wars between Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia and Croatia in the 1990′s…

      • Justin

        Actually I don’t completely agree with the theory either, and in general I think Thomas Friedman is a blowhard who just spouts off a lot of bullshit most of the time, but I think in this case it generally applies.

        I don’t think China is going to sacrifice the benefits it gets from trade with the United States and South Korea in favor of helping out its ideological buddy (at least in name), considering it gets absolutely nothing from North Korea and the only reason China cares what happens there is because of the potential for a refugee crisis should war break out.

        There was also an interesting discussion of the Big Mac theory on Foreign Policy’s Blog, you should read. It discussed some of the same issues, but in reference to the Russia-Georgia invasion.

        http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2008/08/27/lets_not_throw_the_theory_out_with_the_big_mac

  • polacy

    Gotta guess #13 means the China ZF.

  • snoopy

    Anyone who thinks America wants conflict is sick in the head. If it does come to a conflict, have no doubt the South will win. The Norths Army does not even have enough to eat much less the weapons it needs to fight a war.
    China has long used the North to poke their finger at the west.
    If you want to know how the North will react to anything , just think of how a 6 year old bad mannered child would react.

  • Andeli

    Fauna. I think 太俎 is 毛太俎 so it would mean Mao Zedong the first emperor of the new dynasty. He had as I recall some heavy confrontations in this particular part of the empire in the begining of his rule. 1950 to 1953

  • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

    As much as we would like to think that our little cyberworld cannot be interrupted by “reality”, take note – lines of communication are usually the first thing to fall.

  • moody

    Common people are still suffering from the madness of a few

    Guess KJI’s mighty plan of feeding North K. famished population with giant German rabbits did not work out as expected

    Can somebody please get us rid of this stupid butthole once and for all

  • fooge

    Actually a rise in the dollar relative to the rmb is bad for Chinese imports of raw materials.

  • magico

    First netizen’s comment: “China should concentrate its efforts, help North Korea, and when the time comes, help North Korea conquer South Korea in one stroke, realizing North and South [Korean] unification!”

    ^This is the most ignorant comment I’ve heard in my entire life. And those who blame the Americans, you are just a empty-headed narrow-minded wooden piece of block. Please be more objective about it and double check your facts/reasoning. Gosh, douche bags!

  • http://procon-8.deviantart.com coconut

    And now it will only be a matter of time till people start complaining about how Obama hasn’t done anything to help their allies.

    • passing chinese

      well well well i am really surprised some people are longing for
      a conflict btw china and usa

      that’s a really bad idea, and I don’t even think people from usa
      want it, ok? ask them american, are they ready for a war with china yet? no! not in 100 years, trust my word

      whatever happenned in korea just happened, I am 100% sure
      china is not very happy with that and north korea is a pain but also a very important neighbour to china, which china will prevent it being lost by ALL means, by ALL means I mean ALL means and you know what it means

      North korea is not a country that china really likes, however at least it’s not occupied by usa, and this REALLY matters.

      Pull out the yank troops from south korea and neutralize the alliance with usa, then china will not give a sh*t about south korea taking over the north.

      as long yank are there, north korea will be there and china will
      prevent it being taken

      yes development is very important for china, but don’t forget we china doesn’t mind taking a break and fix some major issue
      we did that in 1950, and look where we are now

      we can do that again, and 50 years later we will be even better

      end of story

      • Chris

        We all need to have dreams.

  • fireworks

    The Kims are a real loose cannon. China should tell that crazy mofo to stop trying to instigate a war so he can show off his son Nam how to play politics on the world stage.

    One of these days, China will cut these crazy bastards off the financial and food aid. They are the embarrassment of East Asia.

  • Pingback: North Korea is Probably More Than Just “A Spoiled Child” « 21st Century Boy | Curating Asia, pop culture, and current affairs!

  • Wily

    The Chinese Politburo would likely prefer to do nothing or even side with the US on this issue – but unfortunately it is confined by domestic opinion and its own too-successful propaganda. The government textbooks’ praise for Kim Sung-il and his efforts in the Korean War, along with the latent anti-Americanism, is coming back to bite the leaders in the ass once again. Just like in diplomatic talks with Japan or Taiwan, any little foreign incident can produce all sorts of hyper-nationalist rallies in China that sabotage profitable trade deals or political settlements. If anything, the CCCP has shown itself to prefer realist foreign policy in the last decade, which would dump a useless and provocative alliance with NK, but the societal brainwashing is again the main barrier.

    Unfortunately, we’ll probably have to wait until the generation of leaders with involvement in Tiananmen retires before any serious efforts are taken to moderate Chinese propaganda/public education. Until then, the West has to realize that Hu walks on eggshells in any international decision, and should probably turn towards more covert dealings with China on any major issue (e.g. secret Chinese acceptance of US strikes). My two political science junkie cents.

  • Gocl

    like the U.S.A need little Chinas aproval to go in and nuke north Korea, if china interfears again im sure it wont be pretty for them this time around…

  • blaugrau

    Epic revisionist history!

    Joe Stalin would be so proud of all of you!

    All seriousness aside, will there be less of a deterrent to war after the U.S. defaults on it’s massive debt to China?

  • kodi

    If China could stop America from containing it at this point in time I think they would have done so already. China will have to win the battle peacefully or force America to use force in a non-violent manner and that simply will not happen. China and America are too codependent to have any type of scuffle. If China could contain America I am sure they would try, but they can’t even control all of their own territory. What does that say about a nation?

  • lordofreimes

    I still believe half of the hatred is Government incited but althought the fact that the Japanese are still racist as hell and the Koreans hate the idea of mixing blood (The Japanese from their immigration policies and treating jap-born koreans as 2nd class citizens and the Korean friends I’ve talked to), it seems to be a very East Asian thing to ‘hate’ and act nationalistic.

    Although from the Chinese comments above, I sort of read them as being sarcastic (perhaps the seriousness being lost in translation?)

  • Chad

    Hahaha! Um, have you even been in Europe? A lot of them hate the Germans now for even maintaining a trade balance. They call the poorly performly European countries PIGS and many northern Europeans look down on Southern ones for this reason. There’s a lot of hate between Greece and Germany now too because of bailout politics. Not only that, but Norwegians hate Swedes.

    Their shared currency and borders are out of sheer economic necessity since they are the Old World. If they didn’t do this, their power would be very limited compared to the US and the rising Asian powers and they know this.

  • Chad

    Spoken like a true non-European! Norwegians hate Swedes. Germans hate Greeks. Northern Europe hates Southern Europe. The only reason they share borders/currencies is because they’re the Old World and they would have no political, economic or military clout otherwise. It’s out of necessity, not because they like each other.

  • Cleo

    You can’t blame the Koreans for being “racist” against Korean Japanese hybrids when yakuza are marrying Korean and Chinese women and having children with the right dialects and accents to blend in so that they can be trained to create fake local gangsters to terrorize the Chinese and Korean civilian population. These are not love marriages, okay? They have done it in the Philippines but been frustrated by the locals there who seem to have no problem with mixed heritage but somehow local crime just outstrips Japanese foreigner attempts hence the not infrequent deaths of Japanese “businessmen” in the Philippines with local families. Just random acts of violence.

  • lordofreimes

    When I said Jap-born Koreans I meant normal Korean families who immigrated there for perhaps business reasons. Those families suffer from prejudice from the Japanese.
    Most Korean friends I have say their parents are outright against the notion of marrying Chinese or Anglo-Saxon (I’m in Australia which is pretty multicultural) and the (Aussie born) friends agree with their parents.

    I wasn’t talking about hybrids at all, just how East Asian countries are all very nationalistic.

  • bobiscool

    You have no idea how stupid that is…

    US is benefitting more from the trade with China.. which is why they have trillions of dollars of debit. Do you really think that the whole world will suffer so much economically just for North Korea?

    Plus, even assuming they would, the rest of your argument does not follow. I doubt North Korea think that China would help it at all costs. But even if it did, the US can still come out on top.

  • whichone

    Tell us the truth, you failed those economics classes didn’t you.

  • whichone

    North Korea already possesses nuclear weapons, and doesn’t need ballistic missiles to reach targets on the Korean peninsula. No doubt U.S. superiority in Air and Sea would overwhelm the North Korean forces in a conventional conflict, but when faced with defeat, the possibility of N.K. using their nuclear weapons are a real one.

    The problems seems to be once any conflict escalates, the North Korean government would be backed into a corner with nothing to lose, while to everyone else, South Korea, United States, and yes China, there are are serious downsides to toppling the North Korean regime – not the least of which is the massive flood of people across both borders.

    We’ve seen condemnations and sanctions in the past have had little effect because of China and South Korea’s willingness to continue supply the North with food and fuel. The only alternative is to ease on the sanctions and allow trade. Only with a more robust economy can there be room for negotiations.

  • Tom12GA

    Sometimes, they even export the tormenting rhymes to offspring born in the States:

    10,000 Swedes
    Running through the weeds
    Chased by 10 great Danes.

    btw. I’m Irish, married to a Chinese national – When I first studied German, my father’s first question (in 1979) to me was “…and why would you want to learn the language of the enemy?”

  • Lagavulin

    Norwegians hating swedes? What do you base this knowledge on? This is something totally new to me could you please expand on this a bit.

  • dim mak

    I’m pretty sure even they like each other a lot more than Asians do each other.

  • k2000k

    The term PIGS comes from the countries name. Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain. And it isn’t necessarily because they were performing poorly economically. Ireland was known as the Celtic tiger until recently. Their shared currency is out of sheer economic necessity, at least in their minds, I would consider it foolish to relinquish the ability to manage your monetary affairs to a international body. And not all European countries are apart of the Eurozone. Great Britian has been very vocal against ever joining the Eurozone.

  • Jessica

    I am clinging to my rabbit lovingly.

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