Former Taiwan President Says Diaoyu Islands Belong to Japan

Former Taiwanese President Lee Teng-hui.

Currently the hottest and most discussed news article on popular Chinese internet portal NetEase with ~15k comments and ~200k votes in less than 24 hours…

From NetEase:

Lee Teng-hui Reaffirms: Diaoyu Islands are Japanese Territory

Tokyo Governor Ishihara Shintaro recently suggested paying money to buy the Diaoyu Islands [aka Senkaku Islands]. [Former Taiwanese President] Lee Teng-hui said Ishihara did not make clear who the islands would be purchased from and is a bad politician. Lee Teng-hui has many times stated that the Diaoyu Islands are Japanese property and that Japan should not yield [on the matter]. Lee Teng-hui expressed that the ancient documents that the mainland cites to advocate its sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands is not sufficient basis in international law.

Comments from NetEase:

zhjingqiao2003 [网易山东省济南市网友]:

Lee Teng-hui, was your father illiterate and didn’t educate you properly? Or perhaps, you’re the offspring of your father and his Japanese xiao san? Or were you raised by beasts? You truly TM deserve to die! Exterminate your entire family, and feed the bodies to the dogs!

网易河北省石家庄市手机网友:

The Japanese spawn left behind from the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression period [WW2].

奥卖糕的 [网易江苏省网友]:

Old bastard…

zhjingqiao2003 [网易山东省济南市网友]:

Lee Teng-hui, I fuck your ancestors.

特务旅长 [网易江西省南昌市网友]:

I deep detest blind Chiang Ching-kuo for putting this old traitor into power.

kiss617love [网易广东省佛山市手机网友]:

A bastard left behind by Japanese colonialism of Taiwan.

yi表淫才 [网易江西省南昌市网友]:

Actually this old man looks quite affable~

kooper234 [网易北京市手机网友]: (responding to above)

Affable!? Was your mother fucked by him?

huangchunlous [网易中国网友]:

Fucking bastard!!

网易福建省福州市手机网友:

A bunch of stupid pigs, what do the Diaoyu Islands have to do with you? Aren’t Hong Kong and Macau China’s now? But what does it have to do with you? Every year Macau gives money, and you? If the Diaoyu Islands were to return, would you and your entire family move there? Keep dreaming! Why not go curse the Russians? The Kuril Islands are so large, Taiwan is just 1/3 of their size, were they not China’s before? A bunch of fools. What more, Japan may even be the descendents of Chinese people, the language is almost the same. Whoever it is given to is the same. Of course, if everyone can split it, then go ahead. Stupid cunts, going crazy over what politicians do.

aptx2161608 [网易中国手机网友]: (responding to above)

If you don’t know history, then don’t talk, you garbage. You’re just begging people to laugh at you.

网易山西省手机网友: (responding to above)

Fuck you Fuzhou City netizen [网易福建省福州市手机网友]. I’ll keep it short, you’re just fucking human scum. Your family’s women better be careful of being raped, and the men better be careful of being run over, motherfucker.

ig0226 [网易广东省深圳市网友]: (responding to above)

Although I hate the current government, and hate it to my bones, but for the territorial integrity of a nation, I must say that the Diaoyu Islands belong to us.

宁二牛 [网易中国网友]: (responding to above)

Ding [网易福建省福州市手机网友], how come you all don’t TM say Europe is China’s territory? Back then when Grandpa Cheng [Genghis Khan] also reached Europe. [The three people above me] are all stupid cunts. According to international law, [the Diaoyu Islands] are simply Japan’s. Plus, the Spratly and Paracel Islands also fucking all belong to others according to international law. You’ve taken the borders and almost drawn them onto other people’s coastlines, you bunch of brainless garbage.

网易北京市网友 [关闯生]: (responding to above)

The Diaoyu Islands were always Japan’s…
What’s there to dispute, seriously.

狰狞0 [网易上海市徐汇区网友]: (responding to above)

Hahaha, [网易福建省福州市手机网友], you’ve recklessly stepped on certain people’s G-spot.

Everyone flee, be careful of getting bit.

火星网友 [网易浙江省杭州市手机网友]: (responding to above)

People’s Daily says the Diaoyu Islands are a part of Okinawa.

网易山东省手机网友: (responding to above)

[宁二牛], you motherfucker, may you be run over when going out.

宁二牛 [网易中国网友]: (responding to above)

I’m too lazy to argue with you bunch of brainless dogs who only know how to shout. In the grand scheme of things, the whole world is one country/nation. In the small scheme of things, its just a dispute between you and your neighbor. You draw your territory up to someone else’s front door, is that reasonable? Let’s put aside the Diaoyu Island for a moment and just talk about the Spratley Islands and Paracel Islands. Go take a look at where that bullshit map boundary has been drawn to? Use that bean sprout sized brain of yours and think for a moment, and stop prattling on dragging in views of honor and disgrace and shame. The world is a global village now, and you still have such darkness in your hearts. You live in a country where you’ve already lost the right to be a person and you still go on and on about views of honor and disgrace and shame. If you have nothing better to do go drink milk powder, eat sausages, and then see if your house has been knocked down and if your father is buried underneath.

wwwE7BBBFE6B0B4 [网易四川省成都市网友]: (responding to above)

I don’t see where you brain is! You think a country’s size can be as large as you want it to be? Why is it that there are so many countries in the world? What is it that all these countries are of different sizes? These are things determined by thousands of years, there are origins and reasons [behind them]. Have you seen how large America’s national territory and territorial waters are? Can you explain it with your theory? You don’t even have the most basic view of honor and disgrace and concepts of nation and nationality, and yet you talk about the rights of people!!? All day yelling about milk powder, sausages, homes, have these become your reason for selling out your country> Those who truly have ideals try to improve their nationality, nation, and country, to benefit the people and don’t blame others and become extremists!

网易广东省深圳市网友: (responding to above)

The person above has a very professional 0.5 yuan tone of voice, has lots of brains. For example, when it comes to what history has formed/shaped, you’re only looking at your own history, but have you looked at other people’s history? Does our history sometimes mislead people? Those of us wihtout brains will actually think about it, and won’t just blindly believe what others say. As for so quickly accusing others of selling out their country, people are just speaking out their different opinions, it’s not like we’re important figures and we haven’t caused any real loss to the country, so why talk about betraying the country? There are many who have truly betrayed the country, while us small [unimportant] people simply don’t have the qualifications to betray our country. Since you’re so smart, you should go condemn those people, right? The reason why China can’t become rich and powerful is because of most people’s ignorance.

网易中国网友: (responding to above)

Ding [网易福建省福州市手机网友], if we talk about history, then Europe is also ours and I’ll go live in Europe.

天隆打火机 [网易广东省深圳市网友]: (responding to above)

When you’re strong enough, Europe will cling to your son’s thigh. This isn’t a dream, but something that will happen in 30 years.

jybihk [网易海南省三亚市网友]: (responding to above)

SB.

wuyuexncd [网易四川省网友]: (responding to above)

The Diaoyu Islands are China’s, don’t you know about natural resources?

扬基蜡烛 [网易美国网友]: (responding to above)

Even if the Diaoyu Islands are taken back, if you’re not the children of government officials or the children of the rich, do those natural resources have 1 mao‘s [10 cents] worth of money to do with you?

gayzzs007 [网易河南省郑州市网友]: (responding to above)

Would giving it to Japan mean you’d get 1 fen‘s [1 cent] worth of money?

沈公子吃鱿鱼丝 [网易上海市长宁区网友]: (responding to above)

The Diaoyu Islands are Japan’s. If you say they’re China’s, then please go plant a flag.

网易广东省网友: (responding to above)

You too are Japan’s. Since you’re not Chinese then please get lost back to Japan!

18736259953 [网易河南省洛阳市网友]: (responding to above)

The foreign running dogs and patriots above can stop arguing because actually the entire planet could be China’s, as long as China is strong and powerful enough.

Help us maintain a vibrant and dynamic discussion section that is accessible and enjoyable to the majority of our readers. Please review our Comment Policy »
  • terroir

    China and the Diaoyu Islands: One country, four systems.

    • Canadian_Skies

      lol, I see what you did there. :P

      • White Thrash

        i like that way of seeing it :P

        • Canadian_Skies

          Months later, any new news to the Senkaku Islands? I’ve done my homework. I’ll never call them DIoiauoulduouosalu-whatever Islands. They’re Japan’s islands. The proof is actually in the evidence China provides hahaha.

          • david

            All sides have their own reasons, hard to say.

  • Brett Hunan

    Interesting even some Chinese are arguing that the islands are Japan’s.

    Just like anywhere, when people cant make an argument they result to name calling. Although with China its funnier because ancestors get thrown in.

    • terroir

      Hello, new meme: “Yo’ ancestors are so….” (cause ‘yo mama’ don’t cut it anymore):

      * Yo ancestors are so unrevered that in the afterlife, their citizenship has reverted to “Canadian”.
      * Yo ancestors are so forgotten and lost to time that the only way they can regain their former glory is to join a reality TV show for child stars.
      * Yo ancestors are so irrelevant that hipsters worship them. Ironically.
      * Yo ancestors are so non-corporeal in spirit that clouds will rest on them as sofas.
      * Yo ancestors are so disrespected that corpses used to smuggle illicit drugs by a gang of Satanic necrophilliacs with bayonettes for penises envy them.

      • Brett Hunan

        Beat me to it.

        • donscarletti

          He’s replying to your post. How could he possibly beat you to your punch-line?

          Brett Hunan: “Very droll Terroir, I wish I had said that.”
          Terroir: “You will Hunan, you will.”

          • Brett Hunan

            Simple. I wanted to come back later and post “Yo’ ancestor” jokes.

          • terroir

            @Don’s car let me
            terroir has every faith in humanity – in particular, Bread Humanity.

            I’m going to meme up this place with ancestor insults:
            * Yo ancestors are so slow to act that their aborted fetus attempts are still having kids.

            * Yo ancestors are so dense, their spirits are weighing down heaven.

            * Yo ancestors are poor that your family heirloom is an unpaid bank loan.

            * Yo ancestors are so greedy that they tried to massacre their own kinship so that they could sell off their family tree for firewood.

            * Yo ancestors are so low class that the traditional family recipe passed down from one generation to another is boiled rice.

          • Brett Hunan

            One day I will not only beat you to the punchline, but I will surpass your wittiness. Lol “family tree”- I smiled at that one.

          • terroir

            @Ginger Brett

            I know this was brought up in the previous story, but I’ll bring it up here: how does one have conversation about anything Chinese? This story has to do with Chinese nationalism and as you can compare from this thread we’re having here to the thread immediately below from everyone’s favorite T-shirt quoting idiot savante, one can’t have a conversation. Either you’re shouted down by ad hominem attacks or any honest, truthful introspective gets used as fodder against yourself.

            My comments here don’t have much to do with the story, so would they be moderated out? But to that end, why is a discussion that is full of hate and ephitets seen as more “discourse” worthy than this one?

            Let’s admit it: meaningful conversation doesn’t happen much here. However, let’s also admit that the cS comments are by far the best part of this site. As shocking as the stories may be, people come here to be shocked by top-tier commenters like coala B and hongjian who take freedom of expression and run it into the ground as the train wreck of a spectacle it is.

            How does one partake in a discussion about national sovereignty? As seen below – not very well. No one admits anything. No one exchanges anything. It is as you have said – a place for troll-hunters to “troll the trolls” and go scalp hunting. As fun as that is, it isn’t actual talking – it’s holding your breath as though you’re trying to swim across a lake of ignorance and hate.

            No one comes here to learn anything new. People come here to fight. For the sake of fighting.

          • Brett Hunan

            Me…. I come for they stories and discussion, but I stay for the fun inside jokes and lighthearted joshing (thats right, I said Joshing).

            I totally agree with everything you say but I think its a personal struggle that I want to be part of this community, just not associated with it or most of the other people in it. I cant even recommend people to check out this site anymore because its gotten to be so ridiculous.

            Again, Im not going anywhere but im also not offering any sort of solution. Anyways Im just one guy and if everyone else likes it, clearly its my own beef.

          • donscarletti

            * Yo ancestors are so stupid, their spirit tablets are signed with an X.

            * Yo ancestors are so dissolute, your family heirloom is herpes.

            * Yo ancestors are so backward, they learned to walk upright in 1965.

            * Yo ancestors are so un-revered, their tombs are built according to Winnie the Pooh’s Little Book of Feng Shui.

            * Yo ancestors are so inbred, your family tree resembles a banyan tree.

          • terroir

            @Bread Human

            The part that everybody likes is the freedom to kill and be killed – 你死我活. There aren’t many places like this that make its lawlessness of its comment section a main part of the attraction. If this place was sanitzed by a moderator then the thrill – and danger – would be gone.

            Being a cS regular means that you are liable for every single comment you write; for many this means that they learn to start writing perfect, infalliable comments or suffer the ignomity of internet failure; for others this means they must depend upon their own sheer force of will and personal convictions. It’s like a battle of wills to see if logic vs passion will win, and as R Crowe said in that movie that really shouldn’t have won all those Academy Awards, “Are you not entertained?”

            That’s why this dangerous part of teh internets is so compelling; a day where you don’t die is a great day. As everyone’s just trying to survive, progress can’t be made.

            To continue the meme:

            * Yo ancestors are so poor and greedy, they think every document they sign is a treasure map.

            * Yo ancestors are so filthy that yo momma has had to repeat you constantly as a child that you have more “moles” than other boys and girls.

            * Yo ancestors are so flatuant that you have to keep a lit candle by the side of their memorial.

            * Yo ancestors are so fat that the last time their ashes got scattered into the wind, the dinosaurs went extinct.

            * Yo ancestors are so primitive that they lived in trees when everyone else was living in caves.

          • anon

            terroir, I disagree that no one comes here (the comments) to learn anything new. It may not be readily obvious, but I do think there are people who learn things from the comments that they didn’t have a pre-existing position or solid position on. I’m sure many people might have a leaning and then learn how to better articulate their leanings, or learn the arguments for what they believe. I’m sure many form what they believe from the arguments. The main participants in the back and forths may not, but those on the sidelines may. I think that alone is why conversation is of value. Why do presidential candidates have debates? Not to convince each other, but to convince and communicate to the audience.

          • terroir

            @ah no

            Not a fair comparison by any stretch of the imagination. Presidential candidates are accountable for their words; as such, they tend to stick to the a moderate opinion. cS commenters, while highly entertaining, are anonymous people on teh nets who aren’t accountable for their words and as such are free to spout whatever extreme opinion they’d like.

            If there is any “learning” by the unspoken masses, it’s of the extreme variety. Moderate opinions don’t do well here; if nothing else, their ignored.

            And while we’re postulating the unknown, I’d say that all of these “lurkers” (uncommenting commenters) are reading this only in their underwear. Because, if you want to know, that’s how I make speeches so well here..

    • pada

      Yes, “some Chinese are arguing that the islands are Japan’s”, like Lee Teng-hui who is actually a half-Japnese bastard, with father a Japanese police and a brother died in the Japanese Navy and himself service as an officer in the Imperial Japanese Army during the WWII.

      Since China and Japan will always differ like Argentina and UK, the argument about the island will make not much sense. But we find some voice interesting like NICHOLAS KRISTOF of New York Times who, not like some idiots here, told us the islands belonged to China, though China is commie which should entitle to nothing, especially when it is hated because of its unstoppable growth:

      —-“And in 1972, when the U.S. handed Okinawa back to Japan, it agreed that Japan should administer the Senkakus. So we’re in the absurd position of being committed to help Japan fight a war over islands, even though we don’t agree that they are necessarily Japanese.
      So which country has a better claim to the islands? My feeling is that it’s China, although the answer isn’t clearcut. Chinese navigational records show the islands as Chinese for many centuries, and a 1783 Japanese map shows them as Chinese as well. Japan purported to “discover” the islands only in 1884 and annexed them only in 1895 when it also grabbed Taiwan.”

      Of course I do opine American cannot call shot in all issues, even though it tends to ally with any country that has problem with China, as part of its geopolitical agenda.

      • Brett Hunan

        Actually I dont care about anything you just wrote. Im just here for the free chips.

        • moop

          there’s free chips!!!?

          • terroir

            Dear sir,

            I have heard about your newsletter and would like to know more. These free chips: do they come with dip? Is cola involved, and to which persuasion does it belong?

          • Boris

            Yes, but only of the shoulder variety.

          • mr. wiener

            Shoulder chips are all well and good, but I’m never sure if one should pour the dips onto the shoulder to enjoy them ,which is wasteful, or upend the owner of the shoulders into the dip , which is strenuous exercise.

          • terroir

            With the way that nationalism runs, we can be sure that any chips to be found are taken from off the block. The old one.

          • Canadian_Skies

            See terroir swing back onto his “Blame America for everything” soap box? lol! And weak attempt to feign ignorance. lol! Attempted auto-acceptance bandwagon memes! lol

            I urge you terroir, pay close attention to your own quote, “logic vs. passion.”

          • mr. wiener

            Canadian Fries….um I don’t get it. I thought we were talking about chips, not Yankyphobia. Was it because Terrior didn’t call them “Freedom fries”?

      • Hongjian

        This is why, America must fall for China to rise.

        Americans protected japanese war-criminals from justice in exchange for their cooperation with the US biological/chemical weapon development and handed Chinese territory over to Japan, even though Taiwan/ROC/Freedom China protested, only to piss off the commies on the mainland and to forever mark themselves as eternal enemies to the chinese people.

        Americans are the scum that are destroying the world.

        • moop

          oh look, its the chinese breivik. taking a break from call of duty?

          • Canadian_Skies

            lol

            Actually, in less than 11 years, China will have destroyed their own economy, and in 20 years, China will require a whole new planet for resources.

            I’m right there with you Hongjian, I hate world destroyers, too.

          • RocKStaR

            I would doubt that. China is not only stockpiling fuck tons of cash they are doing it with minerals too. A lot of the minerals they buy are poured into the ocean (I’m led to believe that the salt water preserves them). So we may need another planet for resources but China’s covered.

    • ed

      Interesting that white nerd with no social skills is busy applying sociological motivations to dudes raging on the internet

      They have arguments genius, try reading some Chinese opinions. They’re name calling because they think lee teng hui is being a douche for voicing his opinions, not because there isn’t historical basis for their position. What do you even think that the word “contested” means? Does it mean a territory which only 1 side has legitimate claim over?

      What’s actually “funnier” is that the Western comments on China Smack invariably turn out to be stupider, less “funnier” and more generally ignorant of every topic than the Chinese language ones.

  • Roger

    LOL the entire Planet is China’s? (Misspelled Planet with plant in the last translation)

    I don’t know why so many in China think they will loose face talking about these islands. Some comments are actually pretty thoughtful, but others are plane nationalistic rubbish.

    Thanks for the post

  • moop

    the guy’s right. just because your ancestors fucked a fish on some rock hundreds of years ago doesn’t make it yours. If it was truly China’s land it would have been given back to Japan after WWII. It wasn’t, and no one made a stink about it until the 1970s when the chinese found out there might be oil in them thar hills

    • Jess

      Nobody made a stink about it because Okinawa was under US occupation after WWII, and there was a local push for Ryukun independence. When the US intention to return Okinawa to Japan was publicised in the end of 1969, that’s when things got heated up.
      People tend to automatically side with Japan simply because they don’t like China. And it leads people to overlook/excuse imperial Japanese aggression, which is utterly disappointing.

      • moop

        who’s making an excuse or overlooking japanese aggression? why didn’t china make a fuss about the islands as their territory was being returned to them? Funny how the objections started in 1969, the same year the UN Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East (ECAFE) indicated the possibility of large reserves of oil in the Senkaku area. The Japanese have marked the territory improved the land, they have built a lighthouse there. They are in control of the islands.

        @Nyancat i meant china. whoopsie

        • Jess

          You. And, they did—more so the ROC, since the Ryukus were American-held territory, and the PRC hadn’t yet been recognised by the US.
          Senkaku is a legacy of Japanese aggression. It basically went down like this:
          – Japan historically recognises Diaoyu as Chinese territory.
          – This Japanese governor guy wants to annex the island chain.
          – Other Japanese guys said not to because it’d piss of China. Nothing happens for a while.
          – Japan invades China, annexes Diaoyu. China signs over Taiwan and other territories to Japan.
          – Japan loses WWII, US occupies islands.
          – Two decades later, US states intention to return islands to Japan. ROC and PRC complain.
          And there you have it.
          People have a bad habit of addressing the issue with the initial mindset that China is in the wrong. Of all the major Chinese territorial issues, this one is probably the most legitimate. The Paracels has some merit, I suppose. The Spratlys is stupid. Tibet is incredibly iffy (and with that logic, China should have a stronger claim on Korea). Taiwan, as we know, is a whole other can of worms. But Senkaku? No, that was pretty much Japan being a dick and getting away with it. (If you consider two nuclear bombs getting away with it, of course.) But you support this dickery out of a dislike for China. What’s with that?

          • moop

            again, you have no explanation for why they didn’t demand the territory. if they truly thought the islands were theirs they would have demanded the islands back after ww2. the culture of face would have been reason enough alone to scream it at the top of their lungs. the roc and us had a good relationship at the time, do you think they wouldn’t have been able to get it? they got everything else. it was nothing but a landmark to the chinese, somewhere they would occasionally fish. they japanese officially claimed it, marked, inhabited it, built a factory there. they own it.

          • Hongjian

            Both CKS and Mao wanted a normalization of diplomatic relations with post-war japan, and even declined japanese reparation offerments for that matter. The Diaoyu Issue wasnt touched out of the same mindset, becauce, honestly, commies and nationalists had better things to do at the end of WWII – like, killing each other over the control of China.

            oh wait. It’s moop. the local idiot.

            nevermind what I’ve posted. pearls thrown before the swines.

          • moop

            yeah, you’re right, the roc was like “you wanna gives us back taiwan? are you sure? i mean we don’t want to make a fuss. you know what fuck it, just give us whatever you want, we have to go kill each other now”. WORD FOR WORD

          • anon

            This discussion amused me very much.

          • mr. wiener

            word

          • mr. wiener

            You are of course correct. I’m sure that China would be a wonderful ally to have….sorry what’s that? You want me to kneel and bang my head on the floor?..Ow!..Sorry, you want me to keep doing it , like I really mean it?…Ow! ..is..[ow!] that….[ow!]..Better?[ow!].

        • Hongjian

          ““you wanna gives us back taiwan? are you sure? i mean we don’t want to make a fuss. you know what fuck it, just give us whatever you want, we have to go kill each other now””

          pretty much this.

          The ROC, when they still where on the mainland battling with the offensives of the PLA, even spared japanese POW’s and confirmed war-criminals and sent them back to Japan without any trials or compensation-labour (like, what the russian’s did with German Landsers; let them rebuilt what they have destroyed during their invasion – like Stalingrad, that was rebuilt by German POW labour). The ROC really really wanted to end the whole japanese debacle as quickly as possible, simply because they wanted to direct their full attention to that “heart disease” CKS spoke of when the Japs invaded Manchuria in 1931.
          Similiarily, after 1949, the ROC was obsessed with their grande return to the Mainland with an army and navy supplied with the US to retake what they have lost to the CCP, and only opted for former Imperial Japanese Warships as reparation payment from the Japs, not with territorial handovers, as they hoped to soon re-assume control over whole of China anyway. In the same time, the CCP, who were engaged in Korea fighting their perceived US encroachment onto the Chinese northeastern border, also had little interest in an remote island, as they rather wanted the Japanese to remain neutral in the conflict and improve relationship with them, when the Korean War is finished (which actually did happen – Sino-Japanese relationship was VERY positive in the 50’s untill the 90’s and only soured recently with both japanese revisionism/fear of losing their leading position in asia to China and american containment against China, utilizing Japan), which is why Deng Xiaoping and Zhou Enlai both declined to talk about the Diaoyu issue for the sake of good sino-japanese relationship during their time (with Deng famously stating that the Diaoyu Issue “may be solved by future people possessing more wisdom than currenty”).

          In short, both ROC and PRC werent interested about the issue due to different agenda and priorities, not because they ever acknowledged Japanese sovereignity over the Diaoyudao.

          • moop

            nope, not buying it. the decision on which territory was to be returned to china after the war was decided in the cairo declaration where:
            The Allies resolved to bring unrelenting military pressure against Japan until it agrees to unconditional surrender.
            All territories Japan had won from China, such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.
            Korea shall be free and independent.
            Japan will also be expelled from all other territories which she has taken by violence and greed.

            the roc was part of this process so you’re full of shit

          • Hongjian

            Yeah, and despite the Cairo Declaration (Nov 27 1943, China still fighting Japs) and the San Fransico Treaty (Sept 8th 1951, both CKS and Mao not interested in anything related with Japan) forcing Japan to give up all conquered territories back to their respective owners, it didnt include the USA to give back their conquered territories to the original owner, not to the one whom they effectively conquered from: Japan.

            The US took control over Okinawa and with it, Diaoyu, occupied it even after WWII ended, and handed it NOT back to the original owners being either PRC or even to the ROC, who was the sole legitimate representative of the Chinese nation back then, but back at Japan, who took possession of the Diaoyu after their imperialist war of aggression of the first sino-japanese war in 1895. This is an effective breach of all the treaties and declarations you may have mentioned.
            But ROC and PRC didnt gave a fuck back then, since there where different priorities.

            Neatly done, US fucking A. Now they had pissed off both Commie China and “Free China” (which wasnt actually free back then) forever and ever, and pretty much declared that even their “Free China” ally ROC was nothing but a pawn whose interests and territorial integrity can be sacrificed for the sake of americunt domination via Japan.

            tl:dr

            Solely the americunts were at fault all along. Again.

            This is why the world hates you, fuckers. Always screwing everybody over. Even your allies.

          • moop

            “(7) Until such a new order is established and until there is convincing proof that Japan’s war-making power is destroyed, points in Japanese territory to be designated by the Allies shall be occupied to secure the achievement of the basic objectives we are here setting forth.”

            that is why okinawa was part of this as were the senkaku islands and others. that’s why they were given back to japan and not china, and the ROC agreed to this, unless you think the ROC just simply signed the document without inquiring or negotiating the contents.

          • Hongjian

            “that’s why they were given back to japan and not china, and the ROC agreed to this, unless you think the ROC just simply signed the document without inquiring or negotiating the contents.”

            Sorry. I still cant see any relation to the quoted point in the potsdam declaration to hand the Okinawa Islands WITH the Diaoyus back to Japan and not to the ROC.

            The ROC agreed that the Allies would occupy selected, previously JAPANESE OWNED (“points in Japanese territory to be designated by the Allies” – thus, only legally Okinawa proper, that was conquered by Japan 1871) and -NOT- JAPANESE OCCUPIED or CONQUERED territory, like the Diaoyu Islands, which was forcibly included into the Okinawa Prefecture by the japanese after 1895, the legal binding year of the San Fransisco Treaty from which on Japan has to hand back all territories to their original owners.

            So, while the US occupation and handover to Japan of the Okinawa Islands were legal under the Potsdam Declaration, the unilateral inclusion of territories illegally obtained by aggression and conquest since 1895, like the Diaoyus, inside the Okinawa handover-decision, was illegitmate and violates the 7th point of the declaration, as well as the San Fransisco Treaty and the Cairo Declaration. Hence, your quote of that very 7th point in the Potsdam Declaration, does prove nothing but its broad violation by the USA.

            The ROC never agreed on allowing any Allied Powers to hand back territories to Japan, whom they NEVER even properly owned in the first place.

            If one is anal about the case at hand, the Okinawa handover to Japan was illegal as well, as the conquest of Okinawa 1871 was also a part of japanese imperialism, but since the Cairo Declaration stated,…

            “All territories Japan had won from China, such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.”

            …Only those territories should be handed back that were conquered by the Japanese from China, who never possessed Okinawa – But the Diaoyu Islands.

            So, the US handover of the Diaoyus, with them being included illegally into the Okinawa Prefecture, which was a direct result of Japanese aggression against China, is still a breach of all the treaties mentioned here.

          • moop

            but the ROC agreed to all of this. unless you believe that the ROC had no input into the document that they co-drafted and had no idea which islands were considered part of the declaration then one has to accept that the terms and the end result of the agreement were agreed to by the ROC which was at the time the only chinese government. the fact that the senkakus were occupied by the US after the war demonstrates that the senkaku islands fall under the territories mentioned in the quote from the agreement i just posted, and was therefore had to have been unclaimed by china during the makings of the declaration, since they certainly would have known which territories would be covered by the document and which categories the territories fell under. apparently, senkaku and the other islands given back to japan were agreed to be part of japan by the parties who drafted the agreement, ROC being one of those parties

          • Hongjian

            You are running in circles, moop.

            The Diaoyu Islands were not legally occupied with the Okinawa Prefecture, as they are originally marked (even by the japanese in the 18th century) as part of the Taiwan Province. The Japanese, after taking the Diaoyu by force along with Taiwan, “cut” the Diaoyu off from Taiwan and simply put them into the Okinawa Prefecture. And this was accepted by the americans, who took over the japanese interpretation of the Diaoyu status being under the Okinawa Prefecture, and not its original status of being under Taiwanese Administration – which was and is still illegal to the max according to all the treaties and communiques the Allies and ROC attended and signed.

            The ROC DID NOT accept that the americans break their own treaties and declarations by handling the Diaoyus as part of the US occupied Okinawa Prefecture. They never even though of the remote possibility that the americans, their allies, were that vile to actually accept the japanese post 1895 annexion of the Diaoyus as part of the Okinawa Prefecture.

            If anything, the ROC have signed a declaration that would command the US to respect the original status of the Diaoyus being part of the Taiwan Province – which would result to its handover back to the ROC. But then, they were betrayed by the americunts.

            It is as if I would have stolen shit from you, then some fat fucker comes around and beats me up, promisses you to help you get back your stuff, takes that shit I stole from you, but then turns around and hands it back to me and not to you, as promissed before.

            This is how Americunts roll, I guess.

          • moop

            you can’t be this stupid. for your argument to be true the roc basically would have to have had no idea which islands and territories were to be included in handovers. as they signed and negotiated the agreement, i find that is more or less impossible, especially with no pro-japan parties taking place in the negotiation. there was no part in the agreement about roc territory being occupied by allied forces until deemed necessary only japanese territory. US occupied these territories and then handed them back to the japanese. because they were theirs and obviously roc agreed since they a)signed and negotiated the treaty b) the islands were occupied by allied forces after the war, so they must have been considered japanese territory by the parties in who signed the agreement.

          • Twind

            I think taking a look at one of david’s posts toward the end of this thread (the long one) would be helpful in clarifying some of the issues in this discussion.

          • Twind

            I just want to clarify one more thing. In my previous post, “the long one” refers to david’s long post toward the bottom of this thread. Again, I apologize for any bad writing in all of my posts here in this thread, including any bad writing in this very post. Thanks.

        • ed

          you’re right you’re not making an excuse over overlooking japanese aggression. there was no discussion of it because the CCP embroiled in a civil war were in no position to contest their possessions in 1945 and it came to a head in the 1960s the handovers of all those territories were in that time period. not only senkaku but other possessions as well

          you simply have no clue and are a dumb american shooting off your mouth.

          as a dumb american myself i can pick em

          • moop

            sound the alarm a retard is at the gates. ccp hadn’t even formed the prc at this time, the only legal entity that represented china at the time was the roc.

          • moop

            and the agreement was signed in 1943 that decided the territories to be included in japanese surrender as well as other conditions, 1945 was simply the year of japanese surrender.

          • david

            http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/10092/4085/1/thesis_fulltext.pdf

            And

            http://www.amazon.com/belong-Diaoyu-Senkaku-Islands-international/dp/3832522123

            I think both the English and Chinese wiki article should also be helpful. The same is probably true with the Japanese one, though I can’t read that language.

          • david

            Hongjian,

            The PRC does not recognize the San Francisco Treaty, and I don’t think the ROC attended the meeting either. That’s why there is a bunch confusion regarding many things, including not only this dispute, but also the status of Taiwan itself.

          • Twind

            As I understand it, both sides really go after the sovereignty issue when it is discovered that there are natural resources under this island. So who knows.

          • Twind

            Bad grammar, should be “went” and “was” here.

          • Twind

            I just looked at the wiki articles, probably could have been improved more. Yeah, not the best sources out there.

          • Lakeman

            yeah, lots of confusion over the situation, I guess no one really knew at the time what the situation was… though I’m not sure about the various agreements, including the 1943 cairo conference. don’t think that was ever a formal agreement, was it ever signed? don’t think so. anyway its content was also subject to dispute like the staus of the island, same happenings with san francisco treaty, where lots of confusion happen as well, like the status of taiwan. don’t forget about the chinese civil war and the presence of the US at the time. they were all factors. anyway, the whole thing is a mass. people are now still debating whether diaoyu is part of this treaty or that treaty. who knows.

          • Lakeman

            and yea, all interested parties have being debating this issue since the 60’s and 70’s, so God knows.

    • Nyancat

      do u mean given back to china? This line is a bit confusing ‘If it was truly China’s land it would have been given back to Japan after WWII’

    • The island should belong to the country who discover it first. Japan invaded China in early 20th and killed millions of people. In front of the huge amounts of proofs, they did not regret and said, hey, that`s not true, hey, this is not true. This kind of nationality and people should not be called human, so they do not have rights to claim anything on the earth except for their islands which may sink soon, All Asians suffering their invasion and killing will celebrate this festivity.

      • moop

        hahahha, please, let’s not pretend your name is “peter”. your arguments has nothing to do with this topic. i would say the same arguments could apply to some of your chi-com brethren during the cultural revolution, whole decades are missing from your history books and museums, why aren’t you spewing garbage about that? your country was only citing them as landmarks on their sailing journeys, kinda like navigators used the north star for direction “oh, we passed that small island again, looks like we’re going in the right direction, i’m hungry, wanna fish?” does not equal territorial control.

        • pada

          Comparing “Cultural Revolution” with “Japanese Occupation ” is just a real absurd and silly arguments which is meant to pursuade Chinese to forget and forgive the invaders.

          Let me enlighten you:
          Those who say that African-Americans should forget about slavery hate African-Americans;
          Those who say that the Irish should forget about An Gorta Mor/The Great Hunger hate the Irish;
          Those who say that Native-Americans should forget about the Trail of Tears hate Native Americans;
          Those who say that black-Americans should forget about the triangle trade hate Black;
          Those who say that Vietnamese should forget about the My Lai hate Vietnamese;
          Those who say that Jews should forget about the Holocaust hate jews;
          Those who say that Chinese should forget about Japnese Occupation hate Chinese. ( I dont mean hating Chinese is a crime since China first made you guys’ eye turn darn green)

          I am quite impressed Americans love to forget, though you can find no year when they do NOT make a film about unforgetable Holocaust or a film about heroic kicking on German and Japenese ass.

          • moop

            its not absurd, your country likes to hide the truth and history about what really happened in its history, just like japan has about theirs. why don’t you remand retribution for the millions killed by your own government as well as that from japan? because you are blinded by nationalism and lack perspective. the atrocities the japanese perpetrated on the chinese have nothing to do with the senkaku islands. if china truly felt they were the rightful owners of senkaku they would have DEMANDED they be included in the handback of chinese territories, and they would have gotten them.
            this has nothing to do with hating anyone. your own hatred for the japanese and nationalism has blinded you from thinking clearly. and as usual your post is full of shit

          • notorious

            that is true, pada. the second someone even mentions slavery it’s like “will you people let it go already$*@!? (heavily breathing)

          • pada

            @ Dear Mop,
            The reason your post is “full of shit” because
            1, you have a selective reading;
            2, your short history decides you have short memory span which made you think others should have same span as you;
            3, you have a really bad logic when you connected “chi-com brethren during the cultural revolution” with Islands issue, but on the other hand stating that” atrocities the japanese perpetrated on the chinese have nothing to do with the senkaku islands”
            I am happy I didnt take you seriously, which you’d feel grateful for.

          • moop

            yet jews don’t seem to hate germans with every fiber of their beings. and blacks should stop using slavery as a crutch or an excuse for not achieving the success they desire, or blaming racism for their problems. get slow service in a restaurant “what is it because i’m black?” there is a persistence of victimhood that many african americans default to in the face of adversity, regardless of whether they are victims or not. black republicans put up with more shit than anyother group in the US. the kind of vitriol that fellow african americans spew towards them is disgusting. federal programs, public education, and the democratic party has failed the black community and continues to fail them to this day. my neighbors in highschool and middle school were black and we would walk home together everyday, play basketball on the weekends, have family cook outs together. its was sickening the amount of shit this kid would get simply because he lived in a “white neighborhood” and the crap his father would get for being a black republican. god rest his soul.

          • notorious

            moop don’t go there because you don’t know shit. i hate when you people say that “stop using racism as a crutch” or stop using the “race card”. We didn’t invent racism — you did. You want the race issue to go away then stop being fucking racist. Nice of you to lump all black people into one “race baiting” group there douchebag.

            Maybe the jewish people were able to forgive because somebody actually apologized and paid them back what was stolen from them. maybe blacks might accept an actual apology as long as it’s sincere.

            What we get is study after study from whites trying to prove the inferiority of blacks, just excuse after excuse to justify your sick behavior.

            i don’t think about race, don’t give a shit about it. it’s not my game. So don’t go preaching that bullshit about what black people need to do like we’re all ONE CARBON FUCKING COPY OF EACH OTHER EMBODYING THE SAME FUCKING THOUGHTS you jackass.

            If you meet somebody using the alleged “crutch” then tell that shit to him. whatever the hell are you telling me for? These are the reasons why so many people don’t like you.

            As for the republicans, do not assume my political affiliations. Because I’m clearly democrat on some issues and I’m republican on others. But when you have fattys like newt gingrinch telling successful black people like myself that blacks need to get off food stamps wtf?? Then you understand why I would never vote for a republican who pretends diligent black people don’t exist even with so many successful and wealthy members of black society out there. Why? Because he’s playing the race card to win white voters.

            Republicans are manipulators who dupe the public into voting against their own economic interest by using hot button issues to win their vote. They use abortion, they use racism, they use fascism, they use gun issues, they use classism ie “all the poor are using your tax dollars” they use every hateful tactic in the book to win a seat in office so they can get their private sector friends a government contract and fleece tax money for their own devious means while pushing every corporate piece of lobbyist bill they can find in order to deregulate whatever they can get their filthy hands on. They are devils.

            Oh, and please allow me to play the world’s tiniest violin for your friend “mwaaaaaaaaamwaahhhhhhh mwahhhhhhhhhhhhh mwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh” – get out of here.

          • moop

            “ONE CARBON FUCKING COPY OF EACH OTHER EMBODYING THE SAME FUCKING THOUGHTS” over 90% of you are affilliated with the same political party, pretty close, huh?

            whites didn’t invent racism you collossal idiot. racism has existed the moment people started to develop different pigments. which i think were black and brown. as to which one of those two were the first to be racist is a toss up.

            congratulations, you’ve officially devolved into angry black woman stereotype.

            you condescending remark about my friends father who passed only confirms my remark about how viscious and demeaning blacks can be to other blacks who don’t “fit the mold”.

            “Republicans are manipulators who dupe the public into voting against their own economic interest by using hot button issues to win their vote” you’re an idiot, both parties do that, you just don’t agree with the causes that doucher republicans persue. as if democrats have never tried to use racial issues to their advantage. obama is more of a facist than bush and his assualts on civil liberties have actually increased since the bush years. but yes, republicans, and only republicans are devils, not 99% of the whole bureaucracy on both sides of the aisle

            http://stpeteforpeace.org/obama.html

          • notorious

            Moop – black people are not going to vote republican because we know what they represent, which is an anti-black agenda. EVERYTHING in America goes back to black and white racial issues. EVERYTHING. You wanna ice cream cone? Chocolate or vanilla? It drives the american psyche. America knows nothing else.

            You say that racism is not a white invention — black people didn’t create white supremacy dogma and we did not use blackness as a pretext for imperialism, suppression and aggression or other systemically implemented agenda based on skin color. You people are obsessed with color because you don’t have any. Africans are “black” , mexicans “brown”, Asians “Yellow”, it just goes on and on. These concepts were not invented by so called “minorities”.

            You keep saying you are a libertarian. If so, then why not talk Ron Paul (whom I like and would vote for), instead of your constant badgering me over my dislike of republicans? Bill Maher once said, “I’m not saying all republicans are racist, but if you’re racist then you’re probably a republican…” which makes sense.

            Republicans do not have the public interest at heart. That is why I will not vote for them. Their “voters” have an anti-black agenda, that the republican politicians pander too and even use scare tactics to win voters. Why would I ever vote for a group like that? How would that best serve me?

            By the way, I wasn’t mocking your friend’s dead father, I was mocking you. Same old business of the white guy with the one token black friend, while on the other hand, black people tend to have a lot of white friends. Why is that?

          • donscarletti

            @pada

            Well, I am all for forgiveness and forgetting things that happened when my grandfather was a teenager or even before then.

            I guess that makes me a racist by your definition. Though I would rather to be labelled a racist than you, than have hate for other races in my heart.

          • notorious

            Oh and Moop – thanks for throwing in the “angry black woman” dig in there. If I’m irritated it’s because you’re irritating like most of you people – which is acting like all black people think the same thing and feel the same way on every issue. I don’t speak for anyone but myself. I don’t know what millions of other black people think and “what they need to do” because I am an individual. I was born alone and I will die alone so try not to open a discussion lumping everybody into the same category and then, and only then we might think you are somewhat intelligent enough to have a discussion with. Let’s leave this topic behind us now. Carry on.

          • moop

            “I was born alone and I will die alone ” agreed. lets carry on ;)

          • moop

            “You wanna ice cream cone? Chocolate or vanilla?” i always get the chocolate and vanilla swirl. damn my non-racist palate!

          • Fu ZhiGao

            Nice posts, moop.

            If there were a like feature here, I would have used it.

          • coala banana

            E-Puff aka notorious :-)…

            great logic you have. You sound kinda racist to me….yes, I do think that many blacks (my friends excluded) are using excuses….same like you ! People like you, play their race cards whenever it fits their agenda, and use it as a convenient tool for their own incompetence. Check the difference between a nigger and a negro, and think about it…

            Your comparison with jews is low ! According to your logic, blacks (and here you generalize again, cause the blacks i know don’t give a shit about such excuses) would forgive when somebody would apologize to them and pay them back what was stolen from them ? I call that EXCUSES…when people like you will stop demanding and fucking start to take over responsibility and contribute to society ? To apologize to someone, or a whole group of people just make sense if this people know how to appreciate. And why should white people which have NOTHING to do with what happened hundreds of years ago apologize to another minority of colored people which are born and have equal rights now ? Do yourself a favor and get over it….or how about you demand apology from the blacks in africa which sold their OWN race as slaves to whites in the first place ? Stop being such an angry black hypocrite and take over responsibility for your decisions and circumstances ?

            You are the typical example of a black racist, which use whites as the reason for your own fucked up life ! Now the white race should apologize to people like you which had their ass kicked by their black husbands, and popped out multiple children ? Don’t be such a poor looser ! No one in your society is responsible for your own incompetence and life looser attitude ! The blacks i know look down on people like you, and now i know why, cause people like you can’t get their fat lazy ass out of their comfort zone and prefer to spend their time complaining about the same old same old shit which happened long time ago. You are not a victim, you are just an ordinary looser.

          • moop

            “Now the white race should apologize to people like you which had their ass kicked by their black husbands, and popped out multiple children ? ” i think this is going too far.

            i actually respect notorious for getting rid of that asshole and raising her kids on her own. i don’t think this comment is necessary

          • coala banana

            “i actually respect notorious for getting rid of that asshole and raising her kids on her own. i don’t think this comment is necessary”

            well, for me, i set pre requirements for “respect” a bit higher then that….”getting rid” of an axxhole (btw. how we know he was an axxhole, since we have just her side of the story) AFTER you spend many years with this “axxhole), donn’t really speak for yourself. Its nice (in case her side of the story is true), that she finally saw some light after many years of blindness, but i wouldn’t go so far to graduate such a heroic action by giving “respect”. Is respect due ? In my opinion not, cause it depends on how you deal with the aftermath, and still looking down on man, showing ignorance, doesn’t deserve respect. One can be treated respectful, but that doesn’t mean that this person is really respected, so lets not over-polite this shit.

            Its kinda this dumb ass fathers which claim ” i take care about my children and wife”. Does that deserve respect ? Are humans really so dumb ? Giving respect for something you are SUPPOSE to do, something which shouldn’t even be mentioned in the first place. She is suppose to get rid of an axxhole husband, so why the fuxk applaud her for that ? Lets not start to sucking each others dixks for minor reasons.

          • coala banana

            She is deeply disrespectful, when she plays her victim black slave card, and comparing it with the jewish holocaust, and base the jewish “forgiveness” on apologies from germans ? She is completely intolerant and ignorant about that aspect of history. She is not a slave, she was born in a free country and democracy and she has the same rights like all others. While many blacks (which i know and call friends) can prosper, work hard and do well, and overcome racism, she and her think a likes, prefer to waste their time playing their race cards and make the society responsible for their own failures and incompetence. Thats not just disrespectful against whites, its disrespectful against other blacks which worked their asses off to succeed and to make a difference and fight for tolerance and acceptance in society, and on top of that its pretty lazy too !!!!!

            You want respect ??? Earn it !!!! so far your biggest accomplishment was to get rid of a violent husband (without knowing his side of the story ) ???? Big fuxxing deal !!!

          • A GUY

            You all make me sick, even you Notorious.
            I still like you but, I think you have some racism to get over. I only chastise you by name because I think you genuinely care and have the ability to have introspective thought.

          • notorious

            Coala, you are so fucking stupid it’s hard to address you. First ALL RACES have been enslaved at some point in history so I have no attachment to it. Moop raised the whole issue, so let’s not pretend I just randomly signed on and started complaining about history.

            Your ancestors did some rank shit and it would be easily forgotten IF you all didn’t act like assholes when it comes to race.

            The only reason I went off on Moop is because he went to the handbook and talked to me like he was talking to millions of black people. Excuse me, I don’t know what other black people think. I don’t know what they do or need to do. I’m just ME so stop talking to me in plural sentences. If you do, I’m either not going to know what you are talking about or I’m going to be rude to you for being stupid.

            As for the handbook comment about “making excuses” , what do I need to make excuses for? Being successful in life?

            Your post was so stupid that my IQ nearly dropped reading it.
            Your sentence structure and grammar was even even sloppier in that post because I think you’re own IQ had to drop in order for you to write it.

            My ex husband is not a bad person, he was was just FUNCTIONALLY mentally ill. No one’s fault, not even his. He was never violent, I have no idea where that even came from lol and he was a good provider even today almost fifteen years later the Seems like you created a lifetime movie of the week in your head. LOL Women leave husbands, it happens.

            My point to MOOP is don’t have a conversation with me about an entire race because I am no representative for what “all people” o or think. I can only tell you what I think. The sooner you all stop addressing every black person you meet like they are all one carbon copy of each other the fewer problems we’ll have.

            Stop making excuses for your racism and your failures in life and do something about your mindset.

          • GodsHammer

            I normally keep my nose out of this kind of futile argument but I can’t resist. I have some answers, questions, opinions and observations and I don’t have the time or inclination to write a doctorate thesis so take them as they come.

            1) I am of mixed Black and White heritage. 50-50… yet nobody white or asian ever acknowledges that, blacks often do. However, due to peoples treatment of me as “BLACK”, I’ll present myself as a ‘black man’ in this argument.

            2) BLACK is a color, not a group. The black experience differs quite a bit worldwide, much as the Asian one differs and the history differs even more. So kindly refer to the African/Black American experience as such.

            3) Moop and notorious were having a bit of a rational debate… and then Koala Banana came along. WTF is your major malfunction? If ever there was a post that donned the proverbial white hood, that is it.

            4) White people in GENERAL (not all by any means) have to realize a few things and carefully consider these before opening mouth/keyboard.
            a) While you may have a friend of color, you are not even close to qualified to speak on the black experience. That you treat your friend well, does not mean that everyone treats him well.
            b) White people outside of North America have no idea about Black peoples life inside of North America…especially the US.
            c) The anonymity of the internet really makes people extremely calloused to others feelings and the human experience in general. Koala Banana… your presumptuous personal rant at Notorious and your dismissive attitude towards her experiences and her viewpoint are totally out of line with what an objective person (white or black ) should say, whether or not in agreement. Shameful light to cast yourself in and I dare say that if we were all sitting and discussing this, you would say anything nearly as coarse.

            4) I feel that American Blacks are being misrepresented by their ‘leaders’. These various reverends and such are not really representative of the community at all…and their ‘whining is really getting on peoples nerves…black and white. HOWEVER… what is the alternative to these self-appointed watchdogs?
            Where there is fire…there is usually smoke.

            5) ‘Token Memberships’… just so they can’t be accused of discrimination. Pretty self explanatory and extends across all areas or politics, business and socialization. Sports and entertainment is the obvious exception to the rule…and this just serves to fuel the resentment amost whites who may already be predisposed to racial bigotry.

            6) Now to THE MEAT of the equation. KOALA BANANA said… *partial quote*
            “Do yourself a favor and get over it….or how about you demand apology from the blacks in africa which sold their OWN race as slaves to whites in the first place ? Stop being such an angry black hypocrite and take over responsibility for your decisions and circumstances ?”
            Really? Let’s pretend for a minute that you even have a clue and deserve to be taken seriously.
            a)How old is this ‘equality’ that you earlier mentioned? not even one lifetime. So, do you really think that all the racist attitudes and the hatred, fear, loathing etc all just died? Writing a rule and putting it on the wall is one thing but making people get along is another.
            b)Then there is the documented government ‘agency’ practice of injecting drugs into the Black community…and then making a fortune off of the prison system from all the crimes that go along with the illegal industry.
            c) Schools and their teachers are much older than this ‘equality’. Actually the cycle has just gone through and this is 2nd gen now. .. but the point is that even though you tell someone that they HAVE to teach a ‘nigger’ you can’t make them teach him well or grade him equally.

            7) KB touched on the black family situation…and I agree. A large % of cases are far from ideal. Think of where this came from… a) SLAVERY. You are separated from family and made to go work far away. You may be forced to breed with a mate of someone elses choosing. If you do indeed have a woman/wife of your choosing you are lucky…until such time as you/she is sold. This makes for very detached and irresponsible men and strong yet ANGRY women. The die is cast with this couple generations.
            b) some several hundred years later…Slaves are given Freedom!!! Wow…you are no longer owned!! Ok…well…how you gonna live. Master used to provide food, shelter and clothing. You only know how to farm, but being a farmer requires land… and that is not a zero funds proposition. SO, what to do…go to work for the men that used to own you…good news, they can’t whip you anymore and they have to pay you! Bad news…the pay is less than it takes to buy the things that they used to give you. Having severe trouble supporting the wife/kids…the shame is awful. Gotta go on the road to find better pastures.
            c) 3rd stage, Oh wow!!! Finally we have EQUAL RIGHTS!! People still call you nigger, people still make life harder than it has to be. If you have an issue with a white man, you will be found WRONG. If a white girl finds you attractive and you fuck her, you might be found dead. One blood yeah!! Now the community is weakened yet again because all the successful blacks are running away to be with their new white buddies and spend their money in white establishments… black business going down.

            Let me know if I’ve kind of painted the backdrop for you enough to make you at least admit that while YOU personally may not be responsible for every black mans plight…neither are they totally to blame either.

          • moop

            tl;dr

            my thoughts about the black experience were largely influenced by what my friends father had said in the past, especially when he used to yell at the tv and start to rant. our families were close and this was not a “token” relationship at all and to try to degrade a normal relationship between 2 different races of people simply because we don’t share the same views on race are just as close-minded as you perceive me to be. i was giving an anecdote not claiming i wasn’t racist because i have a black friend, i’ve had many black friends, who gives a shit? everyone’s a little racist. everyone’s a little bit gay. who cares?

          • notorious

            moop – you ask who cares? Here’s what I despise about you.

            If I have been annoyed it is for a few things. With women you have to understand that if she has an attitude, it is because she is angry about something entirely different.

            I did not enter the discussion with a clear head because I was already annoyed by your comment in the other discussion.

            1.) You essentially said I was lying when I mentioned that I speak Mandarin. No one else on this site ever has their skills questioned but you choose to question mine. And everyone believed you because you created, and quite willfully, a cloud of doubt. I take my integrity and kindness as a genuine human being very personal. Whether it’s online or in life, it means that much to me. So I did not appreciate you casting that aspersion on my character.

            Then I make a random comment to Pada, from which you proceed in some stereotypical and highly racial diatribe, begin to label me several things I am not.

            1. An angry black woman (typical stereotype)

            2. Person who doesn’t take responsibility for their choices (why wouldn’t I, when I live a happy successful life in the first place).

            3. I made a one line comment about people not wanting to talk about slavery and you turn it into some bullshit I never said.

            You said I blame white people for my problems. What problems? I live a positive, happy, enriched life and I happen to be admired by everyone I know. I don’t think I could find anyone who could say something negative about me. But then, in your little lie, you said I complain about the past and blame people for what?

            Then you write a statement to me because you really wanted to air your grievances at the whole black race by talking at me when you had no business even making a comment like that me in the first place.

            4. Your insult in turn created an opportunity for a predatory individual like Coala Banana, who then googled every American racial stereotype he could find to lob at me in one post.

            Through your lies and mischaracterizations, I have had other people talking to me/insulting my abilities in other threads. Like they actually know what I can or cannot do!

            Contrary to the gentleman above I do not feel we had a civil conversation. It was the worst kind of experience. When I come away from a situation where I no longer feel like the happy excited person I am in life, when someone has succeeded in some small measure in stripping REALITY away and replacing it with their stereotype, I feel quite literally like I’ve been raped. It comes to a point where I just don’t want to hear white people’s problems anymore. YOU have the problem. I don’t care about race. I’m tired of talking about it. If slavery is even mentioned, you “people” go into a whole new topic about how black people are blaming you.

            We’re not the ones with the problem. You are.

            Now, I am done with this conversation. I just had to get that off of my chest. I come here to read interesting things about China and talk to people about ANYTHING other than America”s bullshit. So we’ll leave it at that.

          • moop

            jesus christ. i called you out on your mandarin comment because in the past your mandarin on this site has been shitty. the way you frame the comment you are trying to make it sound like i called you out on your mandarin because you are black.

            i even pointed out it was a stereotype of you being an angry black woman when i made the comment, you were literally angry, you’re black = angry black woman. i even mentioned in my post it was a stereotype

            “Person who doesn’t take responsibility for their choices ” i’m pretty sure that was actually coala banana

            i also never said you specifically blame white people for your problems, my comments were about a large portion of the black community, not you specifically. i don’t think i even used the word “you” in the initial post. again, coala banana took it that far. i didn’t, nor do i believe it.

            you getting extremely defensive, calling me racist, and taking everything as a personal attack and your reaction in general doesn’t exactly help remove you from the stereotypical behavior. but i’m a card-carrying racist, and wasn’t actually trying to have a discussion on a sensitive subject

          • Notorious

            moop – I’m over it. Really, let’s just move on. Just in the future, next time you have a conversation with a black person you don’t need to use him/her to speak your grievances to the whole community. One of the most ANNOYING things is that people speak generalities to us all the time without realising how truly unique people are, like… there’s a mainframe somewhere and all black people are plugged into it sharing the same likes, dislikes, favorite foods, taste in the opposite sex, music. I can’t speak for them, and no one can speak for me. I don’t know what “blacks need to do” anymore than you do. None of us are qualified to tell millions of people what their choices, feelings or opinions should be. Talk to one person at a time when they deserve it.

            As for Coala, he’s an idiot. I don’t pay attention to that fool. He’s like a child to me, pissing his pants and screaming and twisting on the floor because he can’t have his way.

            He has no credibility at all and is just a sour guy with a vendetta. What he fails to understand is that he can’t make “me” look bad by acting like a racist. Though, you did give this predator an opening to talk to me and that is something I disliked too.

            A white person and a black person will never agree in this lifetime on the whole race issue. The more one group denies, the more the other group points, and it never ends. Same like Japan and China with the Nanjing denial. It’s a circle jerk. I’m over it the discussion and you should be too.

          • @Notorious:

            Couple of quick things.

            1. I really hope that you’re not actually epuff cause if you were that would be both dishonest and disingenuous, especially seeing as how a good converation is usually had with Notorious.

            2. You cannot claim racism was invented by any one race or even mastered by any one race. To say that is racist by itself and completely impossible to prove and historically incorrect.

            3. You’re totally right that it’s improper and unfeasible to think of all black people as carbon copies. However in the same paragraph, you use “white people” as though all white people are the same. This reeks of a double standard (aka bigotry).

            3. It’s never polite to say “you people” no matter the races involved as it creates a confrontational barrier that only serves to point out differences and disparities.

            @ Moop:

            You make many valid, intelligent points, however you also make too many assumptions without proof. Still, entertaining as always.

            Now I expect anon to nitpick something I said in order to be contrary, CB to make a pseudo statement of how awesome he like totally really is or a troll to start humping my leg…

          • A GUY

            @ Notorious.

            I hope this nasty exchange with these retards didn’t sour you on China smack. I like to read what you write here. At the beginning of the exchange I found your comments overly passionate to the point of “racism” you made generalizations about white people that I found to be racist. Your comments were far from the most offensive, and in retrospect they were probably mostly because the peanut gallery were pushing your buttons. The comments you made at the end were all coherent and made sense. I think in the end you rose above their shit. (a hard thing to do) I really do apologize if my criticism there added to your feeling of being attacked. I said it only because it seemed you were lowering yourself to a lower level. (miles above them still, but lower than you deserve.) I hope we can argue and agree here in the future it’s always fun, and often enlightening for me.

            I hope to hear from you again.

          • moop

            @a guy

            if you want a pat on the back, all you have to do is ask

        • quill

          t like japan has about theirs.”

          so what the japanese people know about japanese atrocities all over asia?

      • mr. wiener

        Pete, to summerise your post:
        #1. It belong to whoever got there 1st.
        #2. The Japanese killed a lot of Chinese and didn’t say sorry.
        #3. They are not human and have no right of property ownership to anything.
        #4. The islands have a subsidance problem.
        #5. Something about having a party and killing.

        I just luurve nationalistic logic :P

      • Hongjian

        “yet jews don’t seem to hate germans with every fiber of their beings.”

        haha. oh wow.

        You dont know shit. Stop, just stop.

        Einfach mal die Fresse halten…

        • moop

          k, i wouldn’t want to interrupt you writing your manifesto, you up to 1500 pages right?

        • jeffli

          Hongjian,
          What are you babbling about?

          first:
          there are still lots of Jewish people living in Germany, They wouldn’t be thee if they hated Germany.
          second:
          The anti jewish sentiment of the first half of the previous century was not just limited to the Germany but also most of Europe.

          • Hongjian

            there are still lots of Chinese people living in Japan, They wouldn’t be thee if they hated Japan.

            Same shit.

            Germany has done things that earned them the trust of those they harmed in their past. That is to actually atone for their crimes, which the japanese still are failing to do.

            And dont answer me with that wikishit post about all those so-called ‘apologies’ they did: They are worth jack-shit, when you go on and visit the Yasukuni Shrine to worship war-criminals, after you have said sorry.

            Until the Japanese errected a Nanjing Memorial in Tokyo analogue to the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin, the Japanese are rigthfully hated by the Chinese (or the Koreans, for that same reason).

  • Jeff

    The Chinese are such retards. EVERYONE knows these islands belong to Japan and the Chinese just want to push their false might against everyone they can.

  • Jeff

    Let’s ask the people of Tibet to decide this matter. I mean the TRUE people of Tibet – are any of them still alive or did the Han kill them all yet?

    • notorious

      Jeff I have never understand the Tibet issue. Forgive my ignorance, but Americans are kept ignorant and dumb about so many world matters. I will look into it officially because I want to know more about it. What is the issue? Cliff note it for me if you will…

      • moop

        wiki is probably the closest thing to a cliff note. i wouldn’t say americans are kept ingnorant about world matters. with access to the internet, public libraries, etc i would say people keep themselves ignorant of such matters.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet

        • notorious

          moop, that is also true. but i do find it strange that these matters are not addressed in the public education sector. You cannot learn about such things when you dont know they even exist. Before you can study it you need to know what you are looking for. americans don’t have even a basic understanding of world history.

          • moop

            i dunno, i don’t really agree with that in this age though, would have maybe 20-30 years ago. i mean just look at the wiki post i sent you. there are hundreds of links within that article. if the first time i ever heard about tibet was in 2008 during the olympics hubbub, and then i checked it out online, i would have access from the tibet wiki page to supplimental information about china, yuan, ming, and qing dynasties, the mongol empires, the dali lama, current controversies, etc.

          • donscarletti

            You Americans are cute.

            Have you ever watched South Park? The episode where the parents are demanding sex education be taught in school because they themselves do not want to have this discussion with their children?

            OK, here’s the thing. The schools are part of “the establishment”, also called “the system”, “the man” and a good deal of other things. Now, the establishment is right 80% of the time, because it is not in its interest for everyone to be completely stupid (contrary to what most conspiracy theorists say). However, for contentious political issues like Tibet, I strongly encourage the man to continue keeping his opinions to himself.

            So why don’t Americans know about this stuff? Because by and large, you don’t care. Visiting America, you can find a lot of discussion about American things, but very little interest in the world outside. Having a conversation with an American in America, they tell their anecdote, I respond with my own and they kind of switch off when they first work out that my story takes place in a foreign country.

            Also, have you ever watched American news? I saw a recording of NBC’s 2008 Olympic opening ceremony coverage. Nothing but Tiananmen this, Tibet that, repression, doom, gloom and yellow peril. Why not just enjoy the spectacle rather than bitching about everything?

          • joemomma

            speak for yourself, plenty of Americans know. What’s sad was my Chinese friend talking about ‘roadside bombs’ aka people burning themselves and knowing nothing about it

          • rollin wit 9’s

            thats because Americans understanding of ‘world history’ revolves around the western hemisphere and Russia.

      • coala banana

        “Americans are kept ignorant and dumb” ????

        WHAT ????

        agains excuses ! You can just keep someone ignorant and dumb, when he/she IS dumb to start with. Someone who is not ignorant and dumb, can’t be kept ignorant and dumb !

        Living in the free world with ALL FREE ACCESS to whatever information and knowledge and still prefer to use excuses for ones own ignorance…”oooh, i am not ignorant, I was kept ignorant and dumb…would someone please provide me with more information on this subject…” ??? Look it up yourself you fool !

        Pray less to baby jesus and start to fucking educate yourself !

        • Little Wolf

          Have to agree with your point here.

          Still didn’t like the way you bullied “notorius” yesterday.

          • notorious

            Little Wolf, I was not referring to myself. I was referring to the American education in general. Little dick (Coala) is still pissed about other crap. Pay him no mind.

          • Little Wolf

            notorius, I knew that. And I was only referring to that single comment and not the previous dialogue. I just somehow connected his comment to my own disgust at the amount of lazy foreigners that arrive here without a shred of gumption and street smarts that can’t survive without their fucking smartphones or find anything without GPS. The local website is full of silly questions like “where can I buy deodorant?” or “Looking for nail clippers. Please help”. Instead of getting off their lazy ass and go look for it.

        • Bryan

          Real ignorance is spending a half century running around the countryside waiving little red books while slowly starving to death.
          That goes for all Communist countries.

    • choloboy

      How do you know those islands belong to japan, you stupid cunt! read the history motherfucker. What Tibet’s people have to do on this? Why don’t you as your whore-mother!

      • Boris

        Because both topics fall into the category of geopolitics. It’s a fairly simple connection.

      • mr. wiener

        I’ll assume the “Cholo” in your name stands for “Chloric’ as you are one pissed off MF.

        • coala banana

          chloric ??? or Choleric ??? his rudeness could also be described of just being too “dynamic”….whore mother is not nice, but when ones mother is not whore, then why care ? And even she is…there is something cool about being a SOW. Some of the best and most successful pimps out there are being born by whores…

          • mr. wiener

            Sorry ,bout the typo CB. Thank you for the interesting insight on whores. I will be having a secret chuckle to myself in the future every time you post how successful you are.

          • coala banana

            understand me right. From my point of view ALL women are potential whores, sluts and bitches, some execute that more, some less. My own mother is the nicest person one can meet, but yet, she is still a women. While I am glad that she is not a whore, I wouldn’t be mad at her when she would be a whore. This is a hard ass job for a women, and whores deserve respect too!

            Never forget, its hard out there for a pimp ! So even they deserve respect !

            Puffy got beat up and kicked out by her husband, and judging by her comments she probably tried to outtalk her dude with her fast and dirty tongue ! Somewhere i heard that a white bitch lets you pimp and a black one makes you pimp. While having a white bitch a pimp can pimp with his hands in his pockets, on the other side having a black bitch a pimp has to raise his hands once in a while otherwise things get out of control !

          • mr. wiener

            I bow to the pimp-master.

      • Jeff

        My mother WAS a whore yes, but it put me through 5 years of university. So what?

      • Chinggis was here

        Dear Cholofenqing,

        I read the history and have noticed that China has been part of Mongolia since ‘ancient times’.

        I now demand that China is returned to its rightful owner: Mongolia. However, Tibet is now given complete autonomy, but you Han swine will pay dearly for the last 60 years of murder, oppression, imperialistic theft and cultural destruction.

        Have a nice day.

        Ps, get the fuck out of your house, there are some Mongolians who will need it to keep their horses out of the pollution.

        Regards

  • notorious

    Why some people hell bent on their country ruling the world? Was is there to be gained by that but war and headache?

  • max

    next chinasmack article:

    ex chinese president says Vancouver island belongs to China LOL

    • h3ll

      Had to laugh at this one ^^ Maybe in the future…at least not officially

  • korea21

    fighting over a rock -_-

  • notorious

    whoever owns the island NOW is the true owner. Why revisit the past? Especially a past filled with misery?

    • jeffli

      I agree!
      This is the new millennium, and while we should not forget the fallen we should show forgiveness. Most of the people living today have nothing to do with the events from 1920s to 1940s.

      Why should I as japanese/Korean/chinese/american owe anything to anyone?

      Wake up and make your own future and unlike the majority do it with honesty and dignity And while doing so help the less fortunate people of the world.

      God bless
      Ah Mi To Fo
      good luck to you

  • Song of the Article

    The Moon Represents My Heart
    -Teresa Tang

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv_cEeDlop0

    wumaodang

    • eattot

      your back, good!
      kiss kiss!

  • Skrillex

    CCP member: At one time, in the past 5,000 years, Chinese people inhabited Diaoyu Islands, so it belongs to great people of China!

    • lee tung and his dogs deserve this similar treatment from Chinese AAA

      • anon

        Please stop posting YouTube videos. The ads that play on them…

      • Jeff

        Thanks for sharing this video. I learned from it

  • Brett Hunan

    I hope you all understand that these islands extend the national waters of whomever ownes them. It is a pretty big deal for both countries. Same as Dokdo with Korea and Japan.

  • Vincent

    My oh my! 0_0, what a sensitive subject: japaneses, Taiwan, island property, betrayal ….ha ha ha, all the ingredients are here to make of this subject a huge swearword bomb among chinese netizens ahhh.

    And of course, for the sake of not losing face and because of a blind over the top nationalism, the situation will probably not evolve before at least a 100 years -__-.

    I think that china should just claim the whole world already.

  • eattot

    怨人富,嫌人穷!
    all over the world is the same.
    no matter how bad japs attacked tw, still they like japs so much, go to jap be av girls, talk about how great japs makeup and new style is…
    all because mainland is still rich and powerful enough.
    would like to be rich’s dog, not poor’s friend.

    • What’s wrong with Taiwanese admiring Japan? You were not even alive when all that shit went down more than half a century ago. Why do you waste your time gloating in a past history that you really have no understanding of? Modern Japan is a peaceful, successful, democratic country. The Chinese have much to learn from the Japanese and the Taiwanese for that matter. Mainland Chinese worship of money and “power” just goes to show how insecure and tasteless many Chinese people really are.

  • pokosan

    The Senkaku islands belong to a Japanese guy who lives in Saitama prefecture. He said that a chinese guy once asked him if the guy could buy the island for 350 million yen, but he refused. Now some news say tokyo seems to deal with him only at 12-15 million yen.

    • moop

      yeah, the descendants of Koga Tatsushirō

  • mr. wiener

    I got here late…Are there any chips left?

    • moop

      there are, but pada claimed them.

  • notorious

    ive only heard about tibet in passing but have not had time to look it up. then i hear about monks immolating themselves. i know that china does not allow religion and i thought it had something to do with that. i haven’t had time to sit and take it in yet.

    that being said, YOU personally have an awareness due to being out there in the world, but I have met too many people who don’t even have a basic understanding of world events. I have even met people who call every asian person “chinese”. Or people like your friend Sarah Palin who didn’t know the difference between North Korea and South Korean and thought she could see Russia from her back porch all the way up there in Alaska.

    • moop

      who’s friends with sarah palin? they only republican i remotely respect and like is ron paul and his son.

    • Castro

      I am relatively certain that Pailin just meant she was neighbors w/ Russia. It was ‘figurative’ language usage, not ‘literal’ language usage.
      Agree or disagree with people about their outlook on things, but I think it is a bit self-deceiving to consider someone unintelligent who managed to become the youngest person and first woman to become elected Governor of Alaska and managed to be selected as a running-mate in a Presidential race.
      I just sorta doubt she is unintelligent.

      • whichone

        Palin included Russia’s proximity as part of her foreign policy credential, that and other ridiculous statements she has made do seem to be valid reasons to question her intelligence. Having said that, I agree with you that it is probably rash and unfair to judge her as “stupid”, but at the very least she is uninformed about many issues that a typical discerning voter would know, not to mention a career politician.

        I can’t decide which is worse, not smart enough to understand the issues, or not care enough to understand them when running for the second office of the land.

      • JeffG.

        Ambition and intelligence do not always go hand in hand.

    • coala banana

      not knowing that north and south korea are different countries falls into the same category with thinking that china doesn’t allow religion ….if you would be white, but with the same brain you have now, you would be one of Palins biggest fans and supporters….you already fulfill the pre requirements of ignorance and foolishness….so its just a question of skin color and you will be off waving small Palin flags and holding sign in the air with “don’t touch my medicare” !

    • Trap

      Just a heads up, not that I like Sarah palin, I think she’s stupid, but seeing Russia from her back porch was actually said by Tina fey during an SNL skit…

    • Alan

      Alaska always belonged to Russia, as the successor state of the USSR, and the USA will indeed break up within 5 years. Quebec will also secede from Canada and become a republic, as will Vancouver become a autonomous or independent region.

      These are facts, not fiction!

  • Kim Jung iLL

    Diaoyu Island definitely belongs to Japan. China just has a dirty habit of stealing. China so big still want to rob Japan’s island. Always talk about last time’s history. Talk about history, it belongs to Dinosaur.

    • roflstomp

      When I came to China and saw my first globe I had cola come out my nose laughing how big the country thought it was.

      China supports it belonging to Taiwan because China thinks it owns Taiwan, therefore China owns these islands. Period.

  • pervertt

    Well, it would help if we knew a bit more about former president Lee Teng Hui, whose comments sparked this latest controversy. According to Wikipedia (yes, I know it is not the font of all knowledge but it is a useful starting point):

    “Lee enjoys a warm relationship with the people and culture of Japan. Lee often assures Taiwanese audiences that Japan will support Taiwan if it formally announces its Taiwan independence. Taiwan was colonized by Japan from 1895 to 1945 and natives of the island who grew up in that period, such as Lee, attended schools where Japanese language, songs, and stories were taught. Lee’s father was a low-level Japanese police aide; his older brother died serving in the Imperial Japanese Navy in World War II and is listed in Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo. During his youth Lee had a Japanese name, Iwasato Masao (岩里政男). Lee speaks fondly of his upbringing and his teachers and has been welcomed in visits to Japan since leaving office. Lee’s admiration and enjoyment of all things Japanese has been the target of criticism from both the Pan-Green Coalition and Pan-Blue Coalition in Taiwan, as well as from mainland China, due to the anti-Japanese sentiment formed during and after World War II.”

  • whichone

    United States invaded Mexico and basically took over all the area in the southwest, no one in their right mind thinks U.S. ought to return those territory to Mexico, China invaded Tibet but many people still think they should be independent. Historical reasons/claims just seem like a whole lot of horseshit, the country that is economically, culturally, and militarily dominant will keep the territory, that is the law of the land.

    Who the fuck cares, I don’t even know where the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands are on the map. How are lives of average Chinese and Japanese citizens affected by the status of these few rocks? a few cents difference in gas prices decades from now?

    • Jay K.

      interesting you said law of the land. because in an essence i agree with you on this statement

      with that said, china hasnt done jack to claim and formally end once and for all he diaoyu island spat(which yes i do agree belongs to china)

      the whole south china sea debacle, or is it laughable..that’s hilarious too claiming history to zheng he’s times

      its history not modern times or usage of modern law. as an expat in china i often tell chinese people i have this discussion, so u despise the koreans for saying everything comes from them, how does this make u any different from koreans claiming everything?

      just cuz it says south china sea doesnt mean it’s part of china’s

      just like gulf of mexico does not mean it belongs all to mexico

  • MonkeyMouth

    “When you’re strong enough, Europe will cling to your son’s thigh. This isn’t a dream, but something that will happen in 30 years.”
    this is scarier than that old dude saying that stuff about some nonsense little islands someplace…….
    a piece of shit with some crap on it. china controlling europe? might as well just kill myself again.

  • typingfromwork

    The claim by China for Diaoyu is not entirely illegitimate, though it is tenuous. Same with the Argentine claim on the Falklands and the Japanese claim on the Kuril, to name but a few, and lets not even get into the mess that is Kashmere. One thing’s for sure though, territory, of any size, is serious business in today’s world. Gone are the times when you can buy Alaska for 7 mules and a quickie with your daughter.

  • pockets

    Do people live on these island? If there are people living there, why don’t we just ask them if they are Chinese or Japanese? Oh I know that is just far too simple, and reasonable. Who knows maybe they think they are an independent nation.

  • Castro

    A nice little mini-war along the lines of Falklands/Malvinas – UK/Argentina would be cool. Might not settle it forever, but at least give some clout to the victor! Chance to check out that second-hand carrier from Russia that China is currently spanking the monkey over !

  • Hongjian

    “Even if the Diaoyu Islands are taken back, if you’re not the children of government officials or the children of the rich, do those natural resources have 1 mao‘s [10 cents] worth of money to do with you?”

    Chinese netizens being unreasonably dumb again.

    If a country owns ressources, it is always better for its own people, if they dont.
    And with natural gas and oil fields around the Diaoyu islands, the entire country will benefit from it, as well as that shitty stupid netizen, who may be able to pay one mao of electricity or gasoline fee less, than if China didnt own these ressources.

    That guy who wrote above’s stupid ass comment may be the same one who complains about high gasoline prices, but still wants China to join an Iran oil embargo that will drive China’s gasoline price even higher. China can do without these stupid fucks.

    Alas, the real intention of China behind the claim of the Diaoyu isnt only historical/territorial or even a question of ressources, but in reality a question of breaking through the first island chain. If Japan where to control the islands undisputed, they would also own a huge area of ocean surrounding them, making it harder for China to send its growing PLAN fleets through these japanese controled straights. For China to errect a effective detterrence against the US fuckers, it is imperative for China to have open and unrestricted access for their nuclear ballistic submarines into the open ocean of the West Pacific. And huge areas of water marked as japanese territorial waters surrounding the Diaoyus that will restrict China’s open access into the Pacific even further than it is already is, is something that must never be allowed by any Chinese regime in existence, lest it wants to betray the vital security interests of the nation.
    Which is why, even US-cocksucking and pro-japanese Taiwan/ROC still maintains a claim on the Diaoyu islands (as well as the disputed islets in the SCS for the same reason), with chinese maritime fishery police and ROC coast guards openly cooperating with each other to patrol the waters around the Diaoyu Islands.

    Sorry, assholes and americunts. Diaoyudao is China’s vital pivot within its version of the “Monroe Doctrine”. This isnt a question of petty historical disputes or ressource grabbing. It is a question for the mustache-wearing, prussian Blücher-sabre rattling grown ups. Not for some crying japanese man-children or wapanese americunt/taiwanese fucks to talk about.

    • Trap

      Unless the PLAN develops into a more efficient blue water navy then there will only be saber rattling. PLAN still does not have the manpower nor the technology to secure the islands I believe if push comes to shove. Chinas power projection relative to comparable Asian navies is still under developed.

      What is with your strong anti-US sentiment hongjian? Whether you like it or not, china and the US for better or worse share a symbiotic relationship, we can’t afford to let either partner fail…

      • Little Wolf

        Hey Trap, is there any ridable surf on those islands? I just might go invade’em with my spud launcher and claim’em for myself. Build me one of those micro-nation thingies.

        • Trap

          Haha there’s the surf left by the Chinese fishermen ships fleeing from coast guard ships, and vice a versa

      • Hongjian

        The only comparable asian navy to China would be Japan’s, not even South Korea’s since they didnt even opted for a blue water navy, but a mere green water one capable to destroy North Korea’s feeble navy. And the JMSDF, hell even the Japanese Coast Guard that is subordinated to the japanese agricultural and tourism ministry, is the second strongest maritime force after the USN. The PLAN still has a long way to go to match the Japanese, but they are indeed the third strongest navy in Asia at the moment, even though with considerable distance to the JMSDF…

        But this is not a question for now, since when the guns are still cold, political claims of territory and legal transition rights are just as important as a real capability build-up, as they would legally allow a country to prepare for the real thing by allowing it to build forward presences in forms of observation posts, early warning assets, air-fields, SOSUS-styled subsurface warning networks and similiar things, that would be of crucial strategic advantage in real shooting war, and improve diplomatic standing in peace-time due to deterrence value.

        In terms of the Diaoyus and the control over their surrounding waters during peacetime, the PLAN would be able to legally enter the waters and break through the first island chain containment at their will and not be constrained or checked by japanese or american fleet presence, just as the japanese would not be able to safely transit the Taiwan strait without PLAN and ROCN legally monitoring their movements. In times of war, this advantage would be negligible as legality of movement is not to be considered by any belligent anyway, but it might help China to slip one or two nuclear armed SSBN’s through the “Diaoyu-strait” before the war starts, who might help to limit the escalation-potential of the entire war, as the US would be less inclined to use nuclear weapons on China, if they never knew whether PLAN SSBNs entered the open ocean to get into range of continental US with a truely survivalble and assured second strike/retaliatory capability.

        Hence, an assured MAD relationship between China and the US – something which is not given at this time due to China’s stupidly self-restrained ‘minimal-deterrence docrine’ that mandates that the PLA second artillery corps has only about 30 ICBM’s capable of targeting the US compared to the thousands the US targeting China – would actually help to stabilize the ‘symbiotic partnership’ between the two nations, as both of them know that no conflict will end with either side losing less than the other.
        With the current strategic and nuclear imbalance between China and the US, there’s no reason to assume that peace will be assured, despite the close economic relationship.

        tl;dr

        Our “partnership” might be real and viable, if China can nuke the fuck out of the US. And for that, we need the Diaoyudao, among others.

        • donscarletti

          The minimal-deterrence docrine is a sound strategic measure. There are far better things to spend money on than nuclear missiles that will never be used.

          Basically, an ICBM is a big powerful weapon that looks like a penis (as do nearly all space faring vehicles, as I have mentioned before). For this reason, it is a powerful source of national pride. People like to have them because it’s just some feeling of potency, look, if I hit this button something terrible will happen to those who are my enemy.

          However military capability is most useful when it can be actively used to interfere with other people’s politics, for this, long range logistics is most important, aircraft carriers being a prime example of this and the PLAN will soon have its own small aircraft carrier. Multi-purpose strike fighters are important, satellites and UAVs for intel, all are considered important.

          Everyone loves to see the new Dongfeng-31 in military parades, as it is absolutely huge and you can just tell it can nuke the fuck out of anyone, as is the shiny new Changjian-10 supersonic cruise missile, 10 meters long and needle-fine, stacked three to a truck. But that’s just for show, gunboat diplomacy is where its at and neither of those work at all.

        • Trap

          Besides the MAD factor, there also the economy that links our two nations as well.

          The use of nuclear weapons would have to be a last desperate result for almost any nation. The use of nuclear icbms would spark an immediate reaction by any other countries of the nuclear club (think Russia if US attacked China, NATO allies if China attacked). In addition to that, PLAN would have to be backed up by the PLAAF, which despite its massive size still only has a handful of 3rd gen attack aircraft. Most of PLAAFs air force is antiquated. They lack strategic bombers and dedicated all weather fighters.

          If any real conflict were to arise, it would most likely be a small proxy battle waged by sof and other non convention means.

          Military matters are interesting

          • Hongjian

            Actually, the PLAAF is China’s strongest arm nowadays, with over 1000 modern 4th generation or 4th generation comparable (BVR capability etc) fighters.

            http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.265/pub_detail.asp

            So, the basic tools for power projection is there. What lacks, are territorial advantages to use them effectively. China is contained and constrained within the first island chain, and with the US capable to attack its mainland, while China lacks similiar capability, due to america’s satellites surrounding China.

        • al in china

          Not if they nuke you first fuck up…..And maybe the Russians and Americans new what technology you stole from them would make your fucking nukes work against you. You should try one and see….hehe maybe is will go boom right over your ass. hehe!

    • mr. wiener

      Blucher thought he was pregnant with a elephant.
      China wants so China gets? Might be more to it than that, in this brave new world there is not going to be a pre-eminate power. not for any great deal of time anyway. At this rate the Warholian “15 minutes of fame” will be exactly this:15 minutes.

  • A gawd dang Mongolian

    Taiwan is pro Japan

    China is anti Japan

    Bring up anything involving Japan with China and this happens.

  • gyrsriddle

    Guys, can I would like to make some constructive comments about your use of English in this forum. I see lots of profanity. I must tell you that the people who use profanity so frequently are usually the lower class uneducated people who have no future. Profanity should be used very sparingly and to suggest really strong emotions, not as a matter of everyday language. I can tell that you guys are very intelligent and educated and I hate to see you putting yourself in a societal class that you don’t belong. As a general rule it it best to avoid profanity.
    I am:
    gyrsriddle@yahoo.com

  • masamunecyrus

    Japan controls the Senkaku Islands. They have controlled them for generations. Therefore, they are Japan’s. It doesn’t matter who bit of Chinese pottery once laid on the damned rocks, the only thing that matters is what country, in the present, has actual, governmental control over the islands. At this time and for decades, it has been Japan. They are their islands.

    Likewise, the Kuril islands “should” be Japan’s (as per Russia’s agreement during WWII), but Russia didn’t give them back. Japan has zero control over the Kuril Islands; Russia maintains 100% control over them. Therefore, they are Russia’s.

    The Dokdo Islands, likewise, were once controlled by Japan after WWII, but Korea took them and Japan didn’t defend them. Korea now maintains 100% control over the Dokdo islands, and has even built stuff there. Japan has zero effective control over the Dokdo Islands. Therefore, they are Korea’s.

    This is how the world works. The country that controls a piece of land (or water) owns it. If another country wants it, they have to take it by force and accept the consequences. If China wanted to take the Senkaku by force, it is welcome to do so, but it would have to face the consequences of such a foolish decision over a couple of rocks. Japan currently administers and controls them, so they are Japan’s.

    • ddd

      agreed 100%.

      • 敬昕 張

        well now chinese ships patrol the senkaku, who’s is it now?

        • Getrealson

          Japan’s!

        • Rez

          Chinese ships don’t patrol it though, do they? They go into the waters and run off being chased by Japanese patrol boats.

  • ddd

    I agree with him. Hate Chinese nationalism.

  • Jahar

    There is an island between Canada and Greenland that both Canada and Norway claimed. We managed to resolve the issue without anyone being called a cunt.

    Oh yeah. Most of Europe, the middle East, Turkey, and Northern Africa belongs to Italy. And Italy belongs to Greece.

    • whichone

      To be fair, there isn’t the historical animosity and perceived loss of national prestige (also there probably isn’t a huge oil field underneath the EEZ) when Canada and Greenland takes a soft, conciliatory stance with each other regarding disputed territory. In China and Japan, there are political considerations to consider for the leadership at the top to bow to the other side.

      But good analogy with the Roman empire.

      • Jahar

        I know it’s not quite the same. Personally, I think we all live in the here and now. It’s been Japanese for 100 years. . I think this is a little more important that who saw it 500 years ago, drew a map, and said, “Hey, these are my rocks, way out there.” And I really think that the only reason anyone cares now is because it’s just sth they can fight about. China wants to

      • Jahar

        I know it’s not quite the same. Personally, I think we all live in the here and now. It’s been Japanese for 100 years. . I think this is a little more important that who saw it 500 years ago, drew a map, and said, “Hey, these are my rocks, way out there.”

        And I really think that the only reason anyone cares now is because it’s just sth they can fight about. China wants to fight with Japan. I think China won’t buy it because then they can’t argue(swear) about it anymore, not because of any real attachment to it.

    • Xiongmao

      I’m pretty sure you’re referring to Hans Island which is disputed by Canada and Denmark (Greenland). I still think we should play a game of football over it, as in real football, not the American variant.

  • Xiongmao

    I’d love to get an independent historian’s view on the matter. Clearly the sheeple masses of China can only spew nationalistic drivel as usual (as I imagine their Japanese counterparts are doing as well). Few of them probably know anything but from the propaganda they’ve read in Worker’s Daily.

    • david

      Here is one scholarly treatment on the subject. It’s more than 200 pages!

      http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/10092/4085/1/thesis_fulltext.pdf

      The book version can be found here:

      http://www.amazon.com/belong-Diaoyu-Senkaku-Islands-international/dp/3832522123

      It should help us understand this issue better, and maybe “conclude” the discussion that has been going on in this thread.

      • david

        Want to add that apparently the location of the island is a key too, as there are disputes as to whether the island’s right is included in certain treaties or not.

        • david

          What this also means is that there is a dispute about whether Senkaku is a part of Ryukyu or not.

          • david

            As I wrote in another post, I think this dispute is still going on at this moment.

          • david

            This matters because as I said in another thread, I believe the ROC did ask for sovereignty of the Ryukyu Islands in 1947, but the U.S. refused her. In addition, if my information is correct, the ROC military also occupied the Senkaku Islands briefly in 1955 during their retreat from the Dachen Islands. Apparently, there were also other incidents from 1945 to 1972 that had to do with the sovereignty dispute of the Senkaku Islands between the ROC and the U.S/UN/Japan. I am thinking of two incidents involving ROC ship workers building small housing structures and piers on the islands, in order to help them to remove two sunken ships, back in 1968 and 1970 respectively. Although I believe they were in the end deported by the U.S/UN/Japan authorities for illegal entries.

            The point is, if the Senkaku Islands were/are not a part of the Ryukyu Islands, then did/do they belong to Taiwan? Or were/are they on their own? If they were/are a part of the Ryukyu Islands, then at least the ROC did try to claim sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands in 1947. Finally, it is also my understanding that China, Taiwan, and Japan did not actively pursue the sovereignty issue until the early 70’s. In the end, this is definitely a complicated problem. What we know is that there is still an ongoing dispute right now between China, Taiwan and Japan, and it is difficult to know what the final outcome is going to be.

            I must say that there are also many issues involving the PRC, the ROC, Japan, the U.S., and other related parties and topics (e.g. the islands’ natural resources) that I didn’t address here. So I think people should take a look at one of the links I posted in this thread, a scholarly work on this subject. Finally, my writing might not be good in this post or in any of my other posts here in this thread (which includes bad grammar, syntax problems, spelling errors…etc.,), so I apologize in advance.

          • Twind

            david,

            Good post. It seems to me the Senkaku Islands have always been a part of some other larger entities since their discovery by humans (I could be wrong though). I doubt they were ever on their own and this is still true as of today. Of course, as I said, I am talking about the time after the islands have already been discovered by humans, not before. But either way, this is a very complicated situation.

            Again, I apologize for any bad writing in this post.

  • Jane

    Ignore the motherfucking bastard, just go and get it as the British did in the Falklands.

  • arinna

    This 宁二牛 person,

    I freaking love him/her <3 restore my faith in Chinese people a bit :)

  • Blotha Lonely

    screw you bunch of cry babies, I claim the sofa, all alone..

  • Fuel>Fire

    The Chinese think they own everything anywhere near them. Tibet, Scarborough, Diaoyu, etc, etc, etc. Chinese people completely ignore their own history and then accuse western countries of imperialism and territory grabbing.

    I really am surprised that China hasn’t invaded Mongolia… eventaully it probably will – kill tens of thousands of peasants like it did in Tibet.

    • david

      I have seen some reflections on the issue on the part of the Chinese. For examples, look at some of the net citizens’ comments. As for what happened in Tibet, yes it was a tragedy. I believe most of the violence was done during the 1959 uprising, rather than the invasion itself. As Mongolia, don’t think will happen anytime soon.

      • david

        Typo, should be:

        As for Mongolia…

    • Honibaz

      Why would China invade Mongolia? To most Chinese people it’s a massive piece of wasteland with no economic value. Plus, Mongolians pretty much uniformly despise the Chinese for having control over Nei Mongol, which is rich with natural resources.

    • satuon

      Mongolia used to be almost a part of the USSR. Russia might still consider it part of their turf. It would be akin to invading Kazakhstan or Ukraine, I don’t think the Russians will react well to that.

  • Cyrus Howell

    What a stooge. Probably had a Japanese father.
    This man reads and writes Japanese fluently, because he is of that age.
    Lee Teng-hui speaks with forked tongue, and is not safe in a GuangZhou restaurant between Midnight and 1 AM.

    • david

      Nah, this is just his personal opinion, he has been saying that for years. And he might be right. Like I said, there are bunch of resources out there that’s good. Try the link I posted earlier and the wiki articles on this, both Chinese and English (only 2 languages I can read).

      • david

        Change my mind, people should be more careful with wikipedia, the content of the articles can change quite qucikly, and it can gloss over things. better find other, more reliable sources.

        • david

          This applies to my earlier post in this thread as well.

  • Lakeman

    this whole thing is a complicated situation.

  • Twind

    I remember this thread from a while back. In light of recent development, I’ve decided to take a look online and it turns out that President Lee is in the news again. See here:

    http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2012/09/14/2003542729

    Also, I realized my grammar is pretty bad in my posts here in this thread, sorry about that. I noticed david is having the same problem. I guess we both suck at writing :-)

    • Twind

      Haha, I should have put a period at the end of my final sentence in my previous post. What can I say?

      • Twind

        I see my writing is still not good enough in all of my posts here in this thread (including this very post). I guess I really need to work on my writing skills.

  • Might make right. Fuck Japan.

    • Cauffiel

      If might makes right, China’s gonna get their asses handed to them.

  • Cauffiel

    Why do all the other provinces only have governors, but Taiwain province has president?

    • Warlock

      Does Hawaii have a governor, or a president?

      • Cauffiel

        Governor.

        • Warlock

          As opposed to being a sovereign nation and member of the commonwealth? Just joshing chief, but in all seriousness, Sean bleeding Penn can take a hike, lecturing the UK on colonialism. I would ask him are Hawaiians white americans?

  • Ivan Teo

    Lee is right. Its is also the reason why China refuse to bring this matter to international court. They simply do not have any justification other than to bring out thousands years boring dinosaur history. If your money is in other party’s wallet for few decades, and you didn’t ask for it, then its just not yours any more. Now they are claiming the entire South East Asia sea with the same dinosaur history. China is the next Japan imperialism as far as I can see, a big bully to be.

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