Korean Athlete Shines Laser Pointer in Chinese Leader’s Eyes

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Translated below is a first-hand account of an incident that occurred during the closing ceremony of the recent Nanjing Youth Olympics in which an athelete from the South Korean delegation purportedly repeatedly shined a laser pointer at Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s face.

Many of the posts online related to this incident have been and continue to be quickly deleted, with Chinese netizens equally vexed by both the incident itself and the subsequent government censorship of the incident. During translation, the incident trended on Chinese social network Sina Weibo under the hashtag #Koreans, apologize to our Premier#, which has also since been deleted.

From Sina Weibo: (since deleted)

On-Site Witness Relates Youth Olympic Games Laser Pointer Incident

The incident: during the closing ceremony of the Nanjing Youth Olympics there was a shameful incident. The Chinese Premier, President of the International Olympic Committee Thomas Bach, flag bearers and performers were all flashed in the eyes with a laser pointer.

It was raining today and the armed police had been standing guard for over 2 hours. Many of the performers had to perform in the rain, and many of the security guards worked from 4 am until 12 am. Everyone was busy to bring the Olympics to a close and we did it! We successfully held the 2nd Youth Olympics.

But there was a unharmonious episode. Director Li Weiya had asked again and again for the audience to not point laser pointers at the stage because it can impact the live broadcast and cause problems for the large performance, but there was one genius who shined a laser at the Chinese Premier during his entrance, causing malicious trouble.

I initially did not want to expose this, but he kept doing this over and over again that I can no longer tolerate it. He pointed the laser at the Premier, President Bach, and the eyes of the flag bearers and performers. What reason could there be left to forgive/overlook this?

I tried to use my camera to pinpoint his location but my resolution was too low and since he was in the international athlete section, not having clear evidence would just cause further problems, and it isn’t as you can search each perso one by one. It was this moment that a photographer showed me a high resolution photo that he had taken from a high resolution camera. This photographer friend had had enough of it long ago, and instead of photographing the performance, he had waited to capture [the culprit] in the act. He kindly lent us his phone with the photo, and we took the phone to the police and then on to section 28-29.

At the gate, I stopped a Korean person who looked a lot like the guy in the picture. “the man is you?” “no no”. So we looked one by one, but because Koreans all look alike, we had to look for the girl that sat in front of him in the picture before we found him and I showed the photos to his coach.

[…] Those who harm national interests should be punished. Germans who have broken the law in China have even gotten the death sentence, in accordance to our laws! As for what the volunteer said, our nation’s image was harmed, and while the perpetrator may not be of age, are those grey-haired adults around him also underage? Is constantly allowing unscrupulous behavior going to show others how tolerant China is? No! It will only lead to foreigners looking down on us! Originally, he was to be kicked out, but after the volunteer’s repeated entreatries, this wasn’t done. I’m not trying to hurt the friendship between China and Korea. From EXO incident at the Nanjing airport up until now, I haven’t made any comments. I just want everyone to stand for ourselves when our nation’s interests are harmed by others, to unite and work together, protecting our national interests, even if they are minor issues. Some of this is revealing private/personal information, but I believe it should be made known to everyone, and I’m not afraid of being punished for it. China must rise up! Jia you! Our nation’s economy is currently moving forward at a rapid pace, we have a stable social environment, and a quality of life that is improving by the day. I hope we will focus more on our classical and traditional culture, rather than the worthless things of certain countries. You know what I’m talking about! China and Korea needs to, must work together, as we have shared political and economic interests!

korea-athlete-shine-laser-pointer-at-chinese-leader-01

Comments on Sina Weibo: (since deleted)

咆哮冰淇淋:

Everyone should go condemn Sina Weibo’s customer service. Why isn’t this being reported? Yet the dousing some ice water [ice bucket challenge] is reported every day. Running dogs.

萝卜仙森:

Koreans, no surprise.

一生有你ev:

Let me put in a fair word. He was born in 1998, and is still young, his heart and mind not yet mature, so everyone stop cursing him. if possible, let’s just beat him to death.

弋瀾-而非安瀾:

Don’t bangzi say they’re “good friends” of the Chinese people? Then please have Korean President Park Geun-hye and the perpetrator come forward together to apologize.

韦嵛竞:

Boycott the Korean 2014 Incheon Asia Games and the 2018 Pyeongchang Winter Olympics.

大美的2003:

Why didn’t security go forward to stop him at the time?

lo吴亦凡veman:

I truly do not understand why we have yet to obliterate this kimchi nation!

聂鲁大爷:

South Koreans really are retarded. I look forward to Junche Thought liberating South Korea.

眉眼弯弯的吴年糕:

I doesn’t matter if I like Korean stars or Korean dramas, this kind of low class person should not be tolerated!!!

梦想的CC:

All the posts online relating to this have been deleted. Is it for the sake of world peace or a harmonious society? What if this wasn’t a laser pointer but instead a laser sight from a gun? Just because this punk is a foreigner, he should be forgiven? What if he was Chinese? Woudl he be instead be dragged off and shot? What has happened to the China’s backbone/integrity?!

天韵晓晓:

bangzi weapon and whether or not it has radiation.

黄桃我请你吃西瓜:

Since you represent your country [competing in the Olympics], I can only say your country is low class!

牛奶里头搁点盐:

Laser pointers are very harmful when pointed at people’s eyes. For you to then point it at our Premier, that just makes you low class scum. Can retarded bangzi all just get lost out of China?!!

若葉柳心:

So far, not a single media outlet has dared to say something about this, their mouths all collectively sealed. shut their mouths. So what use is there in netizens being pissed off?

啾啾啾秋秋秋7:

There must be an apology!! Human flesh search him out! Please pass this on!

老夫脸大少年狂:

I’ve suddenly realized just how disgusting the Weibo’s trending topics/most popular list is. We’ve reshared this over 10 thousand times, and it still hasn’t made the trending/most popular list!

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang at the 2014 Nanjing Youth Olympics, with a laser pointer directed at his face by an athlete from the Korean delegation.

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang at the 2014 Nanjing Youth Olympics, with a laser pointer directed at his face by an athlete from the Korean delegation.

Comments on Tianya:

别日君再来:

Most of the posts have been deleted.

帽带企鹅:

Ban him from competition. Absolutely nothing was done. Chinese people suck, too weak.

白水味柠檬汁:

Everyone hurry and download/save the photos. Tianya moderators are hard at work deleting posts!

掌心上的生命伏线:

Those stupid cunts in Korea should first fix their brains. A nationality that should’ve died out long ago.

qq709775820:

bangzi!! Boycott their retarded fans!!

风马梵唱:

When will the honeymoon period between China and Korea be over? Too fucking disgusting. [This is a reference to Xi Jingpin’s recent state visit to South Korea].

为什么还不睡觉:

Why is this being deleted!!! Is it impacting the stability between the two countries? Fucking, why don’t you guys go try doing this in Korea?

火鸡敦士支:

Can bangzi just get the fuck out of the universe?

DH小王子:

I can only say say: why qualifies this fucking bangzi to participate in the Olympics? Fuck off!

MC大贝:  

Those in different timezones [other countries] should post this on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, to let the world see this!!!

shssyan:

This, and still all those Chinese corporations continue fawning over Koreans, inviting kimchi bangzi to be their spokespersons. In my eyes, these so-called national corporations are no different from Chinese traitors and running dogs.

EDITOR’S NOTE (14/09/03): There is a missing screenshot above that explains the strange disconnect in narrative (indicated above by the […]) in the above post from Sina Weibo. Here it is below:

korean-youth-olympics-athlete-shines-laser-pointer-at-chinese-leader-missing-screenshot

At the gate, I stopped a Korean person who looked a lot like the guy in the picture. “the man is you?” “no no”. So we looked one by one, but because Koreans all look alike, we had to look for the girl that sat in front of him in the picture before we found him and I showed the photos to [their] coach, [missing section begins here] showed it to their young athletes, and said in accented/broken English “your country”. I may have been was too impulsive, because the volunteer kept reminding me to just let it go, to be mindful of our national image. Eventually, their coach went to ask for the laser pen. Who knows where the laser pen was [what happened to it] but the laser pen was not handed over, but their actions [of using the laser pen] were stopped.

I’m not trying to incite anti-Korean sentiment. This is just one person’s behavior, and doesn’t represent all Koreans, but is the eyesight of the Koreans around him bad? Instead of stopping him, they laugh. If you dare to do something like this, then we must stop it. Those who come to our country without causing trouble are guests, whom we will treat with warm hospitality, but if you come to our country to cause trouble, then don’t blame us for no longer being hospitable. What you are losing face for [embarrassing] are Koreans. Friends we will welcome, but [missing section ends here] those who harm our national interests should be punished.

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  • CHRISF

    一生有你ev:”Let me put in a fair word. He was born in 1998, and is still young, his heart and mind not yet mature, so everyone stop cursing him. if possible, let’s just beat him to death.”

    Pretty much.

    • Markus P

      Apart from the beat him to death part. lol

  • bossel

    “It will only lead to foreigners looking down on us!”
    This particular foreigner will look down on this particular Chinese because the latter is just a nationalist idiot (ok, that’s redundant, but well …). & seemingly a racist, too: “Koreans all look alike”

    • Andrew

      I don’t think it is racist to point out such a mere fact. Just because he, like almost everybody else but you, would assume that readers understand his words rather as reporting experiences from his own eyes, (and to many people’s eyes it’s indeed hard to make a distinction), does not necessarily mean that he would also hold the opinion that Koreans REALLY look alike.

      • mr.wiener

        I can”t wait for Chucky’s response to this one.

        • David

          I suspect you will have to. I don’t see him commenting about this anytime soon.

  • Ken Morgan

    Had this been the US or UK, a sniper team would have taken him out already.

    • Nilerafter24

      That is so true.
      What kind of immature bastard does this at an international sporting event? This is not an avicii concert.
      I guess since Korea isn’t Japan, this will be swept under rug. China is a really funny country.

      • Ken Morgan

        Nah my guess is that somebody did a quick analysis of gain vs loss and the large trade deals with Korea were more important than punishing some kid.

        • Kai

          For all we know, this kid is still being punished, but quietly, and all the censorship is just an attempt to to manage public controversy.

      • JWZhao

        Chinese may hate Japaneses, but still treat them as a competitor. However, with all the respect, the Korean sometime is just a little bit annoyed.

      • Disney English

        ‘What kind of immature bastard does this at an international sporting event?’

        A child athlete ^^

      • shalom69

        No the question is what kind of mouth breathers think this is actually legit?

        Laser pointers don’t show up as splotches on someone’s face when shone on them, and the pew pew lazer graphics in the caps of the perp are just lol. And that fanfiction of the guy being able to stop a delegation exiting the ceremony… LOL.

        That some factory worker in China who hasn’t finished high school buys this is sadly understandable, but the idea that whatever low EQ Western readers are clueless enough to take this to heart is depressing.

    • Probotector

      If they could find a gun in the UK, they might.

    • Yes also G.I. Joe would rappel down a helicopter with his swat team and catch the offender really quick, neutralize his green-beam weapon of mass destruction, then leave running through the crossfire with a big explosion behind while big airplanes crash and explode and the whole world goes down the drain, fast enough to have his tea with the queen at 5pm sharp. Please…

      • Ken Morgan

        Not really the unit is called So19, they would simply shoot to kill they have shot a number of innocent people and had no problems.

    • Cameron

      The UK doesn’t execute kids for messing about inappropriately. If you don’t want kids to fuck around inappropriately why the hell give them access to laser lens?

    • Foreign Devil

      Really? THen those must be fucked up countries to live in. Paranoid over militarized nations that call themselves “Land of the free”. Actually UK is not so bad. . Mostly USA comes to mind.

      • Ken Morgan

        The UK isn’t really a free state, we have no constitution and although we have a bill of rights nothing is really codified EU law says it should be but the government ignores what it wants. I’m not sure a written codified bill would really do anything seeing as Obama has been wiping his ass with the constitution . Anyway I deal with a LOT of students from China a lot of them see very little difference between China and the UK. Many of them recognise a highly authoritarian government which the UK has become. There have been quite a few police shootings where the suspect was unarmed the police were of course exonerated even when it was found one of the shootings was one were forensics discovered the gun barrel was touching the man’s head and the man was essentially executed.

        • Disney English

          ‘The UK isn’t really a free state, we have no constitution’

          And how would having a single written constitution (like China or the US do) increase the number of freedoms and rights enjoyed by people living in the UK? Do you genuinely believe that the UK has an ‘authoritarian government’ much like China’s?

          As for police shootings, the number of people shot by British police is incredibly low so I don’t think you need to lose too much sleep worrying about being executed by the Gestapo.

          • Ken Morgan

            Well considering in the past 10 years (in the UK) we’ve had detainment without trial, secret trials ,people going to prison for thought crimes, tweeting ‘offensive comments’ and political prisoners. People going to sentenced to 6 months for silence I believe we are well on our way.

          • Disney English

            You forgot about the founding of Hate Week.

    • Truck Furniture Maker

      I bet the person with the laser pointer and the idiot saying “all Koreans look alike” have way more kids than your average rocket scientist.

  • UserID01

    Who even shines laser pointers at people anymore? Shit, that went out of style in elementary school for me. I’m amazed people still do that.

    • Kai

      But dude, lasers.

  • Brido227

    Kids will be tw*ts. In other news – water found to be wet, sun hot.

  • must touch brain

    Just because a rude idiot did this to a Chinese doesn’t mean Korea should be destroyed. They’re both humans after all but some people are just too uptight.

    • JWZhao

      This is not the only thing. Korean and Chinese dont like each others long times ago

      • must touch brain

        Then i guess they have every reason to fight now.

    • Jahar

      I like the logic that because he is a korean, all koreans should pay for this.

      • must touch brain

        Exactly. Especially since it was such a vicious attack with a laser pointer.

  • mr.wiener

    ” All Koreans look alike” …I snorted beer out through my nose when reading that.

    • Nilerafter24

      I know right.
      Pot, meet kettle.

      • DC

        koreans do all look alike..they all pick from the same picture book when going to the plastic surgeon

        • Korean Person

          Are U aware that half the plastic surgeries last year in Korea were done on Chinese plastic surgery tourists? Lot of them were holding out pictures of Koreans as the face they wanted.

        • PhantomFlash

          To me, Asians are all pretty ugly, not only that they are ugly in the same way. At least blacks are ugly in different ways. Koreans have low self-esteem, Chinese have low self-esteem and dirty. Japanese are probably more advanced, but they too are weird.

          • Guang Xiang

            Probably should worry about yourself first

          • PhantomFlash

            I’m not asian, so no.

          • Feiniaozy

            Just about to go to bed before I see this intelligently-challenged twat PhantomFlash making an anthropology theorem, and I’m like “Hahahahahahahahah”. If I were you I probably wouldn’t publicly expose both mental and physical defects at the same time. Why not look into the mirror first?

          • Rick in China

            Luckily nobody gives a shit what you think. Obviously you’re afraid to put your own photo up when criticising others, do you cry yourself to sleep with all that critical projection going on? Poor guy.

          • PhantomFlash

            if you didn’t give a shit, you wouldn’t have replied. Sorry, truth sometimes hurts. You guys are the ones putting knife to your faces to look more like westerners, not the other way around.
            “critical projection” interesting bastardization of English language.

          • Rick in China

            Putting “knife to your faces” – you mean “knives” right? As you can see, I’m not Chinese. “if” – you mean “If”? Replying to fools on ChinaSmack is not an indicator of caring, it’s an indicator of amusement.

            By “interesting bastardization of English language” I assume you meant “interesting bastardization of the English language.”

            Always fun to call a fool out for being foolish, just to have your correct use of language corrected with incorrect use of language..always a strong argument, you sure are a bright one! It’s almost 11, time to cry yourself to sleep.

          • BeetFarmer

            You sir, are an idiot.

    • Rick in China

      Fuck. Beat me to it :P

    • AbC

      That made me giggle too. But then again, Chinese people say that about pretty everyone else. ‘White people all look alike’ ‘black people all look alike’ you hear it all the time.
      (Note: Westerners are guilty too, it seems every other race other than your own seem to look alike in your views).

      • lonetrey / Dan

        I won’t lie, EVERYONE looks the same to me (with other people of their own ethnicity).

        Even Chinese people.

        Yeah, I’m pretty bad with faces. :/

        • Ilya Potekhin

          Are you suffering from prosopagnosia, by chance?

          • lonetrey / Dan

            If I am, it’s diagnosed. I don’t know, maybe I just happen to be back with faces because I don’t pay attention :/

          • Rick in China

            I have a coworker who is like that — face blind, she needs to use voice, style, hair shaping etc to identify people..simply can not recognize faces whatsoever. Smart woman, just has this weird thing..

      • ClausRasmussen

        >> every other race other than your own seem to look alike

        But Chinese and Koreans are the same race?

        When I visited China I mistook people constantly (and sometimes embarrassingly too) because they were all black-hair/slanted-eyes to me. It was only after a while I got “tuned in” to tell the differences.

        I would expect Chinese people to be turned in already and have no problems recognizing Koreans

        • AbC

          They have no problems recognising Koreans. Generally speaking, an Asian of any ethnicity can distinguish other Asians and know straight away if someone is Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese etc, whereas it may not be as obvious to a westerner.

          I’m guessing that the problem is not recognising if someone is Korean or not, but being able to tell them apart.

      • Guang Xiang

        The interesting thing is I have a hard time distinguishing Chinese people while it’s a lot easier for white people back in the US (and even ABCs). Maybe it’s cause China is relatively homogeneous?

      • BeetFarmer

        BLACK GUY: Are you Chinese?
        KOREAN GUY: Are you kidding me? I’m Korean! Do I LOOK Chinese to you?
        BLACK GUY: Yeah, mofo, you all look alike to me… don’t get bent out of shape… some people think all Black people look alike. We usually call those people… police.

        (Dave Chappelle paraphrase)

        You’re welcome.

  • chucky3176

    5 million Koreans plus more ethnic Koreans? You stop this misinformation.

    According to the Sixth National Population Census of the People’s Republic of China, there are only 120,750 South Koreans in Mainland China (a drop of at least 450,000 people, compared to about 6 years ago). The number of long time ethnic Koreans holding PRC citizenship is 2 million, with 450,000 of them living and working in South Korea. The census for non-Korean Chinese nationals in South Korea number around 250,000 for 2013. Altogether there are over 700,000 Chinese nationals living and working in South Korea for Korean firms. If you just take two industries in Korea, there are more Chinese working as construction workers and waiters, than the entire population of South Koreans living in China, who are mostly students and businessmen running Korean factories in China.

    • Rick in China

      You’re ignoring the North Koreans (he did say “Koreans”, not specifically South) who sneak in over the boarder to escape the horror — only to find more.

      • chucky3176

        Oh yes, how could I have forgotten the “illegal aliens” (lol)
        and all the North Korean women forcibly sold off as confined sex slaves.

      • Teacher in China

        When I went to North Korea, I took the train back across the border to Dandong, and I kid you not I breathed a sigh of relief and said “Freedom”….and then, “What the fuck did I just say….?”

      • donscarletti

        China is paradise compared to NK.

        China’s limits to freedom are actually loose enough that 90% of people really have no practical difference in what they are allowed to say or do and what they want to say and do. In North Korea, what you can do, when you do it and how you do it is regimented down to the letter.

        In most of China, the level of economic development is similar to the west post WWII, with Beijing and Shanghai at similar levels to some western countries today. In North Korea, most of the country rarely gets electricity and food is scarce.

        In North Korea, the only person who has more freedom than the lowest of Chinese peasants is Kim Jeong Un.

      • Korean Person

        Actually China only has barely 630,000 foreigners for all of China. Considering that South Korea has 1.65 million foreigners, whom Chinese nationals represent 700,000, the number is pitifully shocking for such a huge country.

        http://www.chinahush.com/2014/06/18/foreigners-in-china-is-there-really-an-expat-exodus/

        • Zappa Frank

          This is something we should remember to Chinese sometimes… They like complain about foreigners in china while in many single countries of the world there are more Chinese than foreigners in china

          • Insomnicide

            Chinese outside of China didn’t exactly get their overseas citizenship handed to them on a silver platter,,.

          • Zappa Frank

            still easyer and better than the ‘impossible to get the citizenship you will always be a foreigner’ that is present in china.. and i don’t talk about getting the visa to work, it get harder every year… if in other countries we would use the same standard China use with foreigners i guess almost no chinese would be there..

          • Insomnicide

            You mean like the Chinese exclusion act and Chinese head tax that western countries have already imposed on any ethnic Chinese immigrants in the past? Also the vast majority of Chinese people can’t even go visit overseas countries let alone immigrate. Yet any foreigner from any country is able to visit China with minimal problems.

          • Zappa Frank

            you are talking about laws that were ONLY in US and how many years ago? we are talking about present. Most Chinese people cannot visit abroad for the simple reason that most Chinese people are too poor to go abroad, simple as that.. they have hard time to get visa because likely will become illegal immigrants. I’m talking about something completely different, that is how western people that in totality of the case, are not going to illegally immigrate to china and still in the totality of the case can afford to live in china, and still in at least 99% of case find a legal job that pay tax in china and even contribution for retirement that will never take back, have hard time to get visa due to strict rules that change every years and is impossible (now, not 100 years ago) even think to get a green card and less than never citizenship… ALL people that are legally working, paying taxes, and so on… There is evidently a different standard between how Chinese are treated in western countries when they live there and how western people are treated in china. Westerns in china simply do not have ANY right, you can get your visa suspended and you expelled for no clear reason, no justification… simple as that. You can lose job, house, whatever… in the blink of an eye. Even if you are married with a Chinese citizen in china is the ONLY country in the world I think, that don’t allow you to stay there unless your partner pay for you..(you cannot work)..

          • Robert Bray

            No particular obstacles were put in front of my wife (Australia and shortly UK)

            They’re not handing them out on arrival, but it’s a long way from unreasonably difficult.

  • chucky3176

    This just proves the anti-Korean hysteria between 2008 to 2012, with all the false rumors that Koreans were stealing Chinese culture and history, were controlled by the Chinese government. The Chinese hired their 150,000 fifty cents internet army to control the online opinion. Now the Chinese government erases anything online that could harm the growing misguided positive public feelings about China, in South Korea. Things died down on anti-Korean feelings in China, from 2012 and onward to now, as China needed to woo South Korea away from the triangle alliance of US-Japan-SK. As well as the fact that the enemy of my enemy (Japan), is also my friend. With such shaky foundation of friendship with nothing in common in terms of values, I don’t exactly see this honeymoon period to lasting long.

  • KenjiAd

    Am I the only one who thinks the pictures showing green laser bean might be a composite (fake)?

    For a laser beam visible under such a bright ambient lighting, the laser must be pretty powerful, don’t think think? I used to use a 40W laser; even with that, the beam is barely visible if the room is too bright. A typical pen-type laser pointer is only 200 mW (0.2 W) or less.

    And it’s very strange that people sitting near the laser guy aren’t paying any attention whatsoever to the guy nor the laser. Didn’t anyone notice? If the beam is so strong, anyone facing the front must have seen the beam and look at the source.

    I think the photos are fake.

    • chucky3176

      LOL, I wouldn’t be surprised it was fake, it’s not the first fake coming out of China. Why would any Korean would point a laser at a Chinese official? I could see the motive during a sports competition, but when someone’s making a speech? Doesn’t even make any sense, unless it’s another flame bait manufactured by Chinese. Online Chinese have a history of manufacturing fake incidents that Koreans supposedly committed against China.

    • JWZhao

      This picture might be fake. However, as the Chinese news indicates the he closing ceremony stared in 8 P.M. The ambient light may no so bright. This picture may be modified by the photographer after take immediately to identify this pointer guy.

      • KenjiAd

        What is so strange though is that people sitting near the laser guy was paying no attention to the guy nor to the laser beam. If you saw a green beam going through near you, wouldn’t you notice? And if you did notice, wouldn’t you look at where it was coming from?

        People sitting near the laser guy look as if they were seeing nothing. Their apparent indifference suggests to me that either they didn’t notice the beam at all (unlikely), or the beam didn’t exist.

        • chucky3176

          I have a hard time believing that out of all that crowd, that someone just at that moment, happened to have taken the pictures of the boy in the crowd who allegedly shot the laser. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume that all the cameras would have been focused at the Chinese official, not at the boy who was shooting the laser, picked out from the crowd? Anyway, whatever. Here’s the picture of the accused boy, he can’t be more than 13 or 14.

          http://boxun.com/news/images/2014/08/201408291426china5.jpg

          http://boxun.com/news/gb/china/2014/08/201408291426.shtml#.VACgyrxdUzB

          • Rick in China

            If you changed his clothing and said he was from (pick Chinese province), nobody would deny it. It’s fun to watch comments like “all look alike” in this context.

          • diverdude7

            damn, they Do all look alike !

          • Kai

            You don’t seem to be reading the information available.

            1. Why would ANYONE point a laser pen at anyone? Because they think it is fun. It doesn’t have to “make sense”, it just has to be amusing to the person involved. I wouldn’t put it past a kid to do just such a thing, whether they are “Korean” or not.

            2. The narrative above explains how they supposedly found the kid. They were actively looking for him and he apparently did it repeatedly enough for them to finally locate him and snap multiple pictures of him in the act.

            3. The account also explains why at least one photographer’s camera was hunting for the kid instead of photographing the event.

            4. Information posted about the boy reveals that he was born in 1998 (it wasn’t included in the above), which would make him 15-16. The kid’s favorite movie is apparently Iron Man.

            That all said, I was initially skeptical of at least one of the photos (the one with the strongest green laser beam, immediately above his blurred photo above) when I first saw it. Like @disqus_wsbWz6mWfM:disqus, I thought that was a mighty strong laser pointer. However, it isn’t entirely unbelievable for the beam to be visible that close to the source and depending on the particulate matter in the air at that point [edit, oops, just saw people mentioning the same thing below]. We also have the animated gif to consider, which makes it harder at least to deny there was a laser pointer being used.

          • Jahar

            I’m surprised none of the Chinese comments question if it’s real or not, after all the fake news they’ve come across.what about the posts on the chinese site? Did anyone question it?

          • Kai

            Some people don’t think to question. We see that on cS all the time too. In this case, there’s actually quite a bit of evidence. There’s video footage from the broadcast, photographs catching the guy red handed, and eyewtness testimony. It’s one thing to introduce doubt but another thing to actually disprove the evidence available.

          • chucky3176

            There’s a video footage of the lasers, but where is the video footage of the Korean kid actually shooting the laser? You keep mentioning the photographs but anyone can photo shop it. Eyewitness testimony was an anonymous internet poster without a name. Hey, I was there, I didn’t see that kid doing anything. There’s your other eyewitness testimony. I don’t want to argue with you anymore since you’re 100% sure. These are for others to ponder.

          • Kai

            AFAIK, there is no video footage of the Korean kid actually shooting the laser (at least not close-up enough to distinguish the kid’s face). There are at least two photographs identifying the kid and witness testimony.

            Yes, anyone can photoshop a photo, but that hasn’t stopped photographs from being “evidence” until you can present a compelling case that it was doctored. Merely insisting that it must’ve been doctored isn’t enough.

            You were at the Nanjing Youth Olympics? Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean others didn’t see it. You are also an anonymous internet poster without a name. This guy at least attached photographs that strongly suggest he was present at the closing ceremony. His testimony is therefore still more credible than yours.

            What’s ironic is that you have made more comments suggesting 100% certainty while I am the one going on about preponderance of evidence (which is lower than “beyond a reasonable doubt” and “100% sure”). I’m not 100% sure, but the balance of the evidence so far make sme lean towards believing this happened.

            You have a right to be upset about past incidents where Chinese people have attacked or blamed Koreans for things Koreans didn’t do or for claims/beliefs no significant number of Koreans actually hold. It is fair for you to express skepticism for any of the evidence available. It is understandable that you are defensive about possible misbehavior that may reflect poorly on Korea or Koreans.

            However, it would reflect well upon you if you are measured in your arguments, acknowledging the preponderance of evidence while introducing your doubts.

          • Guest

            If you accept that the Chinese netizens lied about the kid whose picture they posted in their infantile xenophobic rage (I’m sure the Chinese nationalists have sent him death threats by now), and that the green light beam was doctored, you have the question whether the whole non-event was fabricated to begin with. Chinese nationalists are infamous for fabricating and exploiting events to further their own hate propaganda. Why so much hate? Why not get enraged about the mentally ill Chinese people who stab children to death in their own country instead?

          • Kai

            Uh, I don’t accept that the Chinese netizens lied about the kid or that the green light beam was doctored, so I don’t have to question whether the whole “non-event” was fabricated to begin with.

            Korean nationalists are infamous for all sorts of shit themselves, yet that doesn’t automatically lead me to believe every controversial thing involving Koreans and some other nationalist is a conspiracy fabricated by Korean “nationalists”. I instead look at and seek the actual facts. I don’t just look at the nationality of the people involved and jump to some conclusion based on some prejudice.

            Chinese nationalists rage about Chinese people who stab children in their own country all the time. It’s you’re mistake for assuming they don’t. You do understand that they can hold two thoughts in their head at once, right?

          • Jahar

            The video footage is just of a light, but the pic where you see the laser so brightly.. it’s just so hard to believe it.

          • Kai

            The footage is not just of a light. If you find the photors hard to believe, then go ahead and articulate your reasons. Others have and there have already been answers for them. I also thought the laser beam was too bright but it isn’t remotely impossible. It’s a function of how close it is the source and the amount of particulate matter in the air refracting the light. The video footage shows the laser beam no less than three times in three different shots.

          • Jahar

            the cell phone picture. If it’s just a normal laser pointer, you’re gonna have to be looking at it almost straight on to get a beam that bright. or a whole lot of haze. As you said, people already commented on that fact, and you replied, so i didn’t think it necessary to restate it.

            Also, I’m not disproving, or trying to disprove anything. I was just asking, since you generally have knowledge of the original posts, if anyone there was doubting it.

          • Kai

            I think it’s a whole lot of haze. Watch the broadcast footage and see how hazy it is. The cameras recording the broadcast from around the stadium all recorded very bright distinct green laser beams even from across the stadium. Notice the haze around all the light sources in the stadium. I’m hoping that’s haze and not pollution (lol).

            You have to ask Joe about what other Chinese netizen comments he’s seen because he’s the one who saw the posts and comments before they were deleted. I only heard him complaining about his sources disappearing as he was trying to translate them.

        • Mike tompson

          If he was doing it for quite a white already then it wouldn’t be strange for people around him to be indifferent.

    • Daniel

      You are wrong. Green laser can reach kilometers in distance and be clearly seen in broad daylight. One one the hand lasers were tasted at my ex gf University (she is physicist) and it reached over 20km. In Sweden they are illegal to own without a permit. Even with permit they are illegal to point to the sky since it can reach the airplanes at 10+ km.

      • KenjiAd

        Thank you for the info. In fact you are correct in that well-made “lasers” can reach a very long distance. However, the distance it can reach depends on many factors, such as the power.

        Scientific lasers, which your ex gf was using, are in the range of 10-100W. The beam is hard to see unless the room is dark and, as someone pointed out, there is something that diffract the light (like a fog, water molecules, or dust). Also these are class 4 lasers that regular people can’t buy.

        The pen-point lasers have a power of 0.2W or less, that’s 100 times weaker than the scientific lasers your ex gf or I used to be working on.

        • Daniel

          They didnt use scientific laser but point lasers available to public to buy in store at that time. Power was ranging from 1-600 mW.
          Here you can see police arresting a guy pointing laser to the sky and the aircraft (USA).

          • KenjiAd

            OK, OK, I just believe that the photos are fake, but I concede that I can’t convince everyone. I just think that anyone who actually has used one of those scientific lasers (I’m one of them) would claim the photos are fake. It just can’t happen with a pen-laser toy, with bright ambient lighting like in a stadium, with nothing significant to scatter the light (like dust, smoke, evaporated water, etc).

            The last point is important, because when you are looking at a light beam, you are actually looking at the air. If there is nothing to diffract the light to the direction of your eye, you see nothing, really.

            But here’s the thing. If I am right and this rumor has become significant, I believe that the Korean team would protest. I think we will know the truth soon. If these photos are fake, as I believe the are, whoever has done it could be indicted for libel/defamation. It’s a crime in many countries.

    • donscarletti

      The pictures are definitely fake.

      Check out the lightsabre like effect on the picture of the kid shining the laser. Lasers simply do not look like that. Mostly the beam would be invisible unless it is shining through fog, in which case the scene would be occluded.

      Secondly, the picture of Li Keqiang’s face. A laser shone on someone’s face clearly would not generate that kind of shape, it would be a dot, possibly elongated depending on the direction, but still a dot. That shape is a lens flare, caused by the laser being shone directly into the camera. It’s like this person has never used a laser pointer.

      This person is clearly spreading lies in order to encourage anger with Korea. I can only hope that the new anti-rumor laws will be enforced here.

      • KenjiAd

        I can now see in the animated gif that the green light has an elongated shape whose lengths change from frame to frame.

        That’s a proof that the light isn’t a laser spot. No question. It is a light going through some lens or the light refracted from some shiny surface. No way the green thing is a laser spot.

        • Kai

          @donscarletti:disqus too:

          The shape of the laser spot on Li Keqiang’s face is influenced by the lens, the distance, the speed the kid is moving the pointer, and the framerate of the camera recording the scene.

          • KenjiAd

            For one thing, laser lenses can’t make an elongated shape like that. Well, I guess they possibly could, but intensities of the longitudinally elongated laser beam would show fading intensities along the longitude. What you see in the gif instead is a uniform intensity (except the edges), as if the green light was drawn by a photoshop brush tool.

            How about the possibility that these elongated shapes were caused by the duration of each frame? I think this possibility is not impossible, but highly unlikely. If you look at the gif frame by frame, you would notice nothing in the image shows any significant blur. This suggests that each frame of the animation is actually a single frame of the original video, perhaps at 20-30 frames per sec, which is 3-5 msec (milli second) per frame.

            So if a circular light spot is moving at the rate of, say, one meter per msec, what you should see is a “blur” along the direction of the movement, not like the image you see. What I see is, as I said, above, a kind of line that you can make with a photoshop brush tool.

          • Kai

            The elongated shape has more to do with the movement of the point stretched by the framerate of the camera recording it. It’s like how helicopter blades can look bent on film. They’re moving faster than the video is recording.

            I’m not sure why you think an animated gif should show “blur”. The elongated shapes are blurs themselves.

            Another commenter just posted some more gifs of the broadcast. Frankly, the presence of a laser pointer being used is pretty much uncontestable at this point. There are multiple scenes showing it being pointed on multiple different targets.

          • KenjiAd

            Some of the evidential materials may be true; I haven’t looked at them all so obviously I can’t say they are all fake.

            Also, I don’t contest that some idiots used pen lasers on the stadium. In fact, I think it happens quite frequently these days, especially during sports events.

            What I’m almost certain is that those photos, the ones showing a guy shining a laser beam, are fake.

            As to the animated gif showing the green spots that keep changing the longitudinal lengths, I’m fairly certain, but not as certain as the photos, that they are fake.

            So I don’t much doubt that someone might be using a pen laser at the event, and that the original poster might have been genuinely annoyed by it. But he (or she) created fake photos to “prove” his point. In doing so, he chose someone who could well be totally innocent.

            Did he choose this Korean guy intentionally to incite the ethnics tension? Possible. But I don’t know that either. It’s possible that he truly believed that the Korean guy was indeed shining the laser and manufactured the “proof” to make his point.

            But hey, at this point, I do not know what really happened, other than the impression that these photos and the gif don’t make much physics sense to me.

          • Kai

            What I’m almost certain is that those photos, the ones showing a guy shining a laser beam, are fake.

            I get that, and I’m interested in your arguments for it. When I first saw one of the photos, I thought the laser beam looked too bright to be real. I was initially skeptical of it. Then I looked at more photos, the broadcast footage, and thought more about it.

            The brightness of the beam isn’t actually suspicious. Watch the broadcast footage and notice how hazy the day is. There is haze dispersing light from everything. Notice how obvious the laser beam is in the wide shots recorded from the opposite side of the stadium. It’s one thing to photoshop some pictures, it’s another thing to insert multiple scenes of a laser beam in multiple scenes throughout the broadcast footage.

            As to the animated gif showing the green spots that keep changing the longitudinal lengths, I’m fairly certain, but not as certain as the photos, that they are fake.

            I think the interaction between a fast moving point of light and the framerate of the video is tripping you up on this.

            So I don’t much doubt that someone might be using a pen laser at the event, and that the original poster might have been genuinely annoyed by it. But he (or she) created fake photos to “prove” his point. In doing so, he chose someone who could well be totally innocent.

            You’d also be accusing him of lying that he and others took those photos and physically went to that section of the stadium to confront the guy but was stopped by a volunteer who dissuaded them from pressing the issue. It is your perogative to say he lied, but you also have no proof that he did, nor can you point to anything in his account that doesn’t reconcile with other established facts.

            But hey, at this point, I do not know what really happened, other than the impression that these photos and the gif don’t make much physics sense to me.

            I understand. I just don’t see why they don’t make physics sense to you. There are mundane explanations for every point of suspicion you’ve pointed out. I encourage you to view the relevant bits of the broadcast footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04kYrJnPWoQ

            My previous link to the other commenter’s gifs should give you timestamps that you can focus on. They should at least address your skepticism about the visibility of the laser beam in the photographs. For the shape of a moving beam in recorded video, I can only suggest you read up on how video framerates interact with fast moving objects. As for the photos of the kid holding the laser, we’d need something more conclusive about them being doctored, and there are two separate images involved.

          • KenjiAd

            As to the gif, let’s first take a look at how a moving objext should look like in a single frame of a video: baseball.

            You notice the blur, correct? Look closely at the leading edge and trailing edge of the movement, relative to the edges of the moving ball perpendicular to the movement. You may need to enlarge the picture.

            Now let’s take a look at the green lights in the gif. As far as I can tell, I just do not see any “movement” of this object. They don’t show any characteristic blurs at the leading and trailing edges.

            I hope you see my points. But I don’t insist the gif was also a fake (I do insist the photos are fake; I bet two maos on it lol). The image is too small to be conclusive.

          • Kai

            Two mao isn’t a very confident bet, dude! :D

            There are probably a lot of confounding factors involved in your comparison but frankly, I don’t see any difference. The longer the elongated shape just means the spot of light moved faster or over a longer distance relative to the framerate of the video. It’s like length of exposure in photography (you know, those cool pictures where people spell out words with glowsticks in the dark with a long-exposure shot). The shorter shapes just mean it moved slower or over a shorter distance.

            The end point of a laser beam can move REALLY damn fast given the distance from the kid’s seat in the stands down to the stage on the opposite side of the stadium. Much faster than a baseball.

            Thanks for trying to use images and comparisons to articulate your point of contention. I hope you understand my response.

          • chucky3176

            Look at the shape of the green light on his face. The light almost entirely covers his face. That has to be a fairly big strong laser light to almost cover his face.

          • Kai

            That just means the beam of light is being dispersed by distance and what is between that distance.

  • “because Koreans all look alike”
    To be fair, I suspect most foreigners could not tell Chinese from Japanese, Korean, Thai, et al.
    Just by watching someone, I’d become pretty good identifying the differences. Not perfect though, so when I’m not sure, I will ask their descent.

    • hess

      Thai people dont look like chinese, korean nor japanese…

      • You think most people out there can differentiate?

        • hess

          Unless theyre mentally challenged, yes. Its not hard to tell east asians and south east asians apart. Sure some of them might pass for one another but theyre few. Its like telling apart a mexican and a scandinavian

  • RELAX zhonguoren…
    The photo shows a young teenager…
    No need to rally the troops and go to war.
    Whoever wrote this is a wimp with a major inferiority complex

    • JWZhao

      No one go to war for this things. China isn’t North Korean.
      However, As a Chinese, I understand why the guy who wrote this article is angry. The relationship between Chinese, Japanese and Korean is a little bi more complex than your imagination.

      • Yes, I know
        “I am Not Chinese, I will not understand”

        • Jahar

          you CAN’T understand.

      • Jahar

        China has been involved in more wars than north korea.

        • AbC

          And your point?
          (How many times a country has been ‘involved’ in a war in the past has nothing to do with it’s tendency to want to go to war over trivial matters…)

          • Jahar

            my point is, he said “No one go to war for this things. China isn’t North Korean.”, as if to imply that north korea goes to war fairly often, over petty things. Something they have never done.

          • AbC

            I think it’d be reasonable to assume North Korea is more reckless and would be more inclined to go to war based on current political climate. They have publicised numerous times that they won’t rest until they rule all of Korea.
            China on the other hand, becoming an economic powerhouse, would have nothing to gain and everything to loose to involve itself in another war.

          • Jahar

            you can assume whatever you want, but since the korean war they haven’t invaded anyone. and they only did that with chinese and russian support.

            Based on North korea’s track record, how can you assume anything other than their leaders are blustering idiots?

            China has also stated that they wont rest until they rule Taiwan. That nothing will stop them from controlling what they see as theirs, which would include territory claimed or held by what, 8 or 9 other countries?

      • It’s actually not that complex if you don’t habitually inject national pride or “面子” into every minor incident. Saving face this, national honor that, blah-blah.

        This is a simple case of a kid misbehaving; discipline him as necessary, then move on. Why would you need to color it with historical baggage, geopolitical relations and ethnic tension? That only complicates the scenario, and that’s a self-inflicted wound that Chinese often cause themselves.

        Lighten up. No one will think less of China just because a mischievous little prick decided to do prank your Most Exalted Premier Li.

    • Arendelle

      What has being raged by rudeness of foreigner teenager toward nation’s leader do with inferiority complex? None of the commenters said they should go over a war with Korea. Your comment seems a bit inferioroty complex to me..

      • Are you Chinese? If so, you should know already.
        The Koreans consider themselves superior to Chinese and are not afraid to carry themselves this way when in China.

        Regarding your comment about going to war…#1 – read between the lines, saying “going to war” doesn’t always mean formal war declaration, but hate, violence, towards some particular group…
        #2 – This is one of the comments above
        “lo吴亦凡veman:I truly do not understand why we have yet to obliterate this kimchi nation!”

        • Arendelle

          You haven’t read my previous comments, have you? That will lead you to realize that I’m the exact opposite. Same nationality with the athelete. Please don’t rush to make an assumption- do some verification job in advance.

          #1 – You have used the phrase “No need to rally the troops” which is associated and confines the writing’s context to formal war combat.
          #2 – I hate when I see Chinese or Japanese (the latter appears more often) talking about kimchi when it comes to mocking Koreans. I see similar comments mocking and cursing Chinese or Japanese as aggresive as them though… even when the matter is petty and irrelevant with doing something ‘wrong’ to Korea. The relations between three nations is like Rubik’s cube.

          By the way, even regarding that pretty many Koreans do have negative images to China that’s not quite the same as thinking themselves as superior race though they may have higher living standards and sense of citizenship. Not feeling superiority doesn’t mean we are afraid of others, you should remind that.

          Plus, while I asked you about inferiority complex of the Chinese netizen, or concrete assesing of his attitudes and action, you have replied about Koreans’ notion of China.

      • lacompacida

        “棒子能滚出宇宙么 Can bangzi just get the fuck out of the universe? A nationality that should’ve died out long ago. I look forward to Junche Thought liberating South Korea. I truly do not understand why we have yet to obliterate this kimchi nation!” were not call for wars, just obliteration.

      • donscarletti

        “What has being raged by rudeness of foreigner teenager toward nation’s leader do with inferiority complex”

        To answer your question: the elevation of a foreign teenager’s actions to an international dispute.

        If Chinese are so quick to assume that other group of people contempt them just because of the stupidity of an individual, it’s because they believe themselves to have enough contemptability for that to be likely.

        It’s a bit of a stretch to assume that even this one boy contempts Chinese because of the alleged actions. Assuming it is him, he probably just thought it would be harmless, it would be funny, it would be on TV and would have thought it would be even more funny if it was President Park instead.

  • Rick in China

    Wow, how intriguing. So, in this case it’s “Korean” xx yy zz. Why don’t they refer to him as “Laowai”?

    • chucky3176

      Because Korean Bangzi sounds cooler than “Laowai”?

    • Alex Dương

      Because they want to slur the Koreans, so why would they refer to them as 老外 or 老韓? You realize several referred to them as 棒子 and that 棒子 is an actual slur?

    • Probotector

      Some guy only identified as ‘guest’ was telling me recently on CS that laowai is reserved for whites only. According to him, the Chinese call Koreans waiguroren.

      • lacompacida

        Chinese call Koreans bangzi 棒子 (sticks).

      • SongYii

        LAOWAI POWER!!

      • ClausRasmussen

        I’ve seen it used for black people too, but usually it is used for non-russian white people. They use more specific names for people of neighboring countries which is why Russians are usually identified as such

        It is no different from what we do ourselves: I live in Denmark and identify people from our neighbors by country. Farther away the nuances gradually fall away and they’re just South Europeans, Muslims, or black

  • choixkoix

    It’s a teenager being a dick, and not realising quite what he’s doing. And in most normal countries where people might not be so overly obsessed with face and being looked down upon by others, people would remember that fact.

    A polite but firm talking to from a police officer in private, a slap on the wrists from his own country’s sporting governing body and we move on to more worthy matters for discussion.

    • Jannick Slavik

      ” And in most normal countries where people might not be so overly obsessed with face and being looked down upon by others, people would remember that fact.”

      LMAO

      If this happened in the USA, he would have been water boarded as a terrorist

      • Jahar

        no he wouldn’t be.

    • lacompacida

      A polite but firm talking to from a police officer in private is not enough. It take much more violent reaction to make Chinese people realize China is a big country with 1.3 billion people.

  • Probotector

    What does Marcus Black have to say now about China allowing us the freedom to point laser pointers at anyone we like. @German dude, remember that shit?

    • 白色纯棉小裤裤

      This only proves what he said is true. Some people are mad about the kid but the government is protecting his freedom by deleting the posts.

      • Zappa Frank

        Yes protect freedom using censorship…it makes sense

  • Probotector

    “but because Koreans all look alike”

    “Germans who have broken the law in China have even gotten the death sentence, in accordance to our laws!”

    wtf?

    • Myk

      The German in question followed his Venezuelan ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend to China and, according to German news, killed them both here in China more or less in public with a hammer and a knife. So, yes, totally comparable to pointing a laser pointer at someone….

      • Kai

        The guy wasn’t comparing what the German guy did to this kid pointing a laser pointer. He was trying to argue about more consistency in holding foreigners accountable. He’s juxtaposing the German guy being held to local law but others suggesting that the Korean kid be forgiven and not held accountable (because there were people present and online saying the same things a lot of us are saying, that it was just a kid playing a prank, rude though it may have been).

        Frankly, there’s nothing really wrong with the Chinese guy finding the Korean guy’s actions upsetting and disrespectful. What’s wrong is him veering off into overly nationalistic sentiment at the end broadening a kid’s prank into some malicious insult to a nation. The kid was being a dick but it’s unlikely he was trying to insult China itself.

        • Myk

          But how can someone seriously argue for consistency between two cases which have nothing in common except both guys being non-Chinese? It is -imo- just an ridiculous argument to say “China punishes foreign murderers, therefore we must also punish foreign kids for stupid pranks”

          BTW, it was rude and stupid, and he could have blinded someone – but did that kid actually break any law?

          • Kai

            Why not? The desired consistency is “holding accountable”. That doesn’t mean he wants the same “punishment” for both cases.

            I can’t think of any laws specific about pranks involving laser pens but if the authorities wanted to, they could probably find some way to trump up a prank into some sort of assault or interference with official duties or something. There’s also civil recourse. They could’ve probably easily said he’s being disruptive and had him evicted from the premises, but that didn’t happen.

            I’m guessing all he’ll get is a stern talking-to by his coach. If the government is willing to censor this, they probably don’t want to make a big deal out of it.

    • SongYii

      Probably driving infractions.

  • Probotector

    This doesn’t have to be turned into a nationalist issue.

    • lacompacida

      Yes. It has to be. This is China.

    • Kai

      It can be expected that the hypernationalists and those with petty prejudices will be the first and most vocal commenters on this kind of incident. The bigger problem is that the government censorship of it only infuriates them even more so they become even more vocal. They see the government as betraying their rightful indignation over this “disrespect” to their nation. The government censorship is also having the nasty side-effect of distracting even those who would dismiss this as just a kid’s prank in opposition to those hypernationalists and prejudice people.

      It’s hard to say whether the government did the right thing in trying to censor this. The assumption is that they were trying to prevent the hypernationalists from making a big deal about it. Whether the censorship is helping or hurting that goal is hard to say.

      • chucky3176

        Why do you think the government stepped up and deleted the comments this time, when up to few years ago, they would have been the ones posting those comments and spreading them?

        • Kai

          The government is having reports and discussions of the incident deleted. Why? I don’t know. My speculation is that they don’t want it to become an international public incident. Maybe they want to keep the Youth Olympics positive and harmonious and figure this incident isn’t worth the online nonsense that will result, distracting from what should’ve been international good sportsmanship or something.

          When you say “those comments”, what kind of comments are you referring to? If we’re talking about arguably hypernationalistic comments or prejudiced comments, they are STILL posting and spreading them. Why do you think they were only doing them “up to a few years ago” (implying they’ve since stopped)? They haven’t stopped. Are you referring to rumors about Korean claims on Chinese stuff? Those rumors weren’t started or spread by the Chinese government.

          • chucky3176

            I’m talking about those Chinese comments about South Korea shooting the laser. They are being deleted by the Chinese government. According to Korean media, the Chinese netizens are also complaining that their government is also deleting apologies made by Koreans online, essentially liquidating all traces of this incident.

            I think they’re doing it because like I said before, the Chinese government doesn’t want anti-Korean feelings spreading in China at this moment (only at this moment). And now I think I know another reason why. The Chinese government knows this is another baseless hoax, and don’t want this fabrication to be revealed later on, and embarrass China in front of the Koreans. Yet at the same time, they’re too proud to reveal the hoax outright. They just want this thing to disappear, and they’re hoping that deleting them will make it go away eventually.

            You said;

            “Are you referring to rumors about Korean claims on Chinese stuff? Those rumors weren’t started or spread by the Chinese government.”

            I disagree. The rumors may not have been started by the government, but the government also played a major hand in spreading those rumor. Look at how many Chinese mainstream government controlled newspapers wrote fabricated “Korea claims” rumors as if they were facts. Surely, those news articles had to pass the government censors in China? Did they stop them? No! Instead they were the ones keep printing preposterous stories and using their 50cents army to spread the propaganda. Now that China needs South Korea’s support in their war against Japan and the US, these stories that got printed frequently all magically disappears and the Chinese anger barometer is down by two notches regarding the Korean cultural claims, although it’s still buried just below the shallow surface.

          • Kai

            I’m asking about this:

            Why do you think the government stepped up and deleted the comments this time, when up to few years ago, they would have been the ones posting those comments and spreading them?

            Emphasis mine. As far as I know, the Chinese government wasn’t posting and spreading comments about Koreans using laser pointers at the Youth Olympics years ago. Anyway, I suspect you simply tripped over your thoughts and didn’t realize the sentence you were writing doesn’t actually make sense.

            You and I share the suspicion that the censorship is because the Chinese government doesn’t want anti-Korean feelings at the moment, and are hoping this incident will pass and be forgotten.

            You and I do NOT share the suspicion that this is a baseless hoax. There’s a multitude of evidence for it for which people have only attempted to introduce doubt but have no presented compelling evidence disproving the incident. As I have said, there is footage, photographs, and eyewitness testimony.

            I disagree. The rumors may not have been started by the government, but the government also played a major hand in spreading those rumor. Look at how many Chinese mainstream government controlled newspapers wrote fabricated “Korea claims” rumors as if they were facts.

            You have an overly simplistic understanding of Chinese media. Just because the Chinese government can exercise ultimate oversight and control over its domestic media and even the media outlets that are formally associated with the Party or central government, DOES NOT mean they are manually scrutinizing and approving every single piece of content being published. As such, there is no direct evidence that the Chinese government itself is consciously spreading possible falsehoods being written by employees of the media.

          • chucky3176

            “they would have been the ones posting those comments and spreading them?”

            I don’t see where the misunderstanding could happen. It’s exactly what I said. If this had happened few years ago, the Chinese government would have jumped at the chance to play a hand in fanning the masses.

            I disagree with you completely about the Chinese government controlled media, considering the past Chinese government’s actions of deleting articles they deemed harmful. They letting the rumors to circulate for years, while showing no gumption to delete articles, is testimony to the fact they didn’t mind the rumors going around. Please don’t claim Chinese government has no part in on all this.

            “As I have said, there is footage, photographs, and eyewitness testimony.”

            Where’s this footage of this kid shooting the light? Photographs are not conclusive evidence as they are subjected to manipulations. Eyewitness testimony? Who is this person who wrote the eyewitness testimony at Weibo? Anonymous?

          • Kai

            Nevermind the “those comments” thing. Like I said, I understand what you were trying to say.

            The Chinese government’s double-standards or inconsistency in censoring stuff they consider harmful does not equate to the Chinese government being directly intending to spread falsehoods about Korea. That’s too big of a leap in logic.

            It isn’t just photographs that are subject to manipulation. Footage and eyewitness testimony can be subject to manipulation too. However, there is such a thing as the preponderance of evidence. You can insist on suggesting the photographs and footage are doctored and that the first-person accounts are lies, but then the same can be said of everything. You need more.

            Have you watched the broadcast of the closing ceremony? Where a laser is seen at different times from the same position in the stadium? Do you have conclusive proof that the two different photographs of the kid above are doctored? Do you have any proof that the first-hand account is a fabrication? Can you read Chinese? Do you know how to use Weibo? Do you know what those screenshots are of? Are you any less anonymous than that guy is? Why should we listen to you instead of him when he is providing pieces of evidence and all you are providing is skepticism?

            Being skeptical is fine, but you are expressing absolute certainty without proof except for your suspicions and prejudices about the Chinese. Your argument boils down to: “you guys have lied elsewhere so I’m certain you guys are lying now”.

          • chucky3176

            Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree. We can just wait and see. Lot of Koreans angry at this kid, calling him an idiot, and apologizing to China for what this kid did. But I think it’s awfully too early for everyone to believe the pictures which looks like fabrications to me. With entire China brimming with anger and horror, and since this has hit the papers and news in Korea, and the kid’s face plastered all over the internet, it won’t be long before the truth is revealed. Either he’s going to come out to apologize for it to save some grace, or he’s going to flatly deny it and claim innocence. What I’m saying is that you guys have cried wolf so many times, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s also a lie. If that’s prejudice, and not experience, then so be it.

          • Kai

            Of course, we have no choice but to wait and see. Maybe there will be new information that vindicates your skepticism. Maybe there won’t be.

            To the extent that a Korean kid is indeed guilty of doing this, I think the Koreans criticizing his behavior reflects well on Koreans. They recognize that it was a rude thing to do and should be censured. It’s like when Chinese people criticize their own for the misbehavior of their own as well. There’s no escaping that the kid was chosen to represent Korea at an international sporting event, and fair or not, his behavior unfortunately reflects upon his country and nationality in the eyes of others. For Korean netizens to condemn his behavior is good.

            People believe the pictures because they don’t look like obvious fabrications to them. If you think they are, you have to convince them they are, with proof, not just merely insist they are.

            I don’t think all of China is “brimming with anger and horror”. That’s a pretty big exaggeration if that’s what the Korean media is saying. Most people frankly don’t even know about this, which is a testament to the effectiveness of the censorship. I didn’t notice this yesterday on my own. Joe had to tell me about it. There was apparently a comment on Tianya that remarked about how the news is being censored in China but being freely reported in Japan, suggesting the Japanese are eager to egg on Chinese-Korean animosity. I haven’t looked into that angle but it does show that a lot of Chinese people totally know about what I call the East Asian Trinity of mutual hate. LoL.

            I don’t know if the kid only has two choices, to either apologize or claim innocence. He could just not comment and hope the whole thing blows over. Remember, one big suspicion for why China is censoring it at all is because they don’t want this to become a bigger issue. I personally would like to see a public statement on it, just to put everything to rest, but it might not be in the cards.

            I understand your rationale about crying wolf. There’s a difference between being skeptical about an individual who is seen as having a habit of lying versus being skeptical about a country or government involving tons of people. Just because one politician in the US government has a habit of lying doesn’t automatically make it reasonable to claim the US government is lying about this other thing. Do you understand what I mean? Cheers.

          • chucky3176

            Kai, I have information from some Korean netizens that the angle of where the Korean team was sitting in the stadium, would have been impossible to put a light across the official’s face. Also, there are Korean netizens who posted a comment from the accused who vehemently denies the charges. These are all hearsay right now, so we’ll just have to wait for the investigation by Korean officials. Since this is causing a mass wide hate on in China, through the SNS, I’m sure they’ll investigate the actions of one of their athletes. You’re so sure the evidence is legit, I’m saying it’s questionable, especially in light of the fact this is going all over Japanese and Taiwanese portals, and I have seen this pattern over and over again when it comes to making Koreans look like villains.

          • Kai

            I’m guessing people are posting this site as the source because Chinese sources are being deleted and Joe managed to capture at least some of them. Either that or they can’t read Chinese and do primary research into the story.

            You should translate the information from some Korean netizens about the angle. As well as the link to and translate the supposed denial comment. They may be unconfirmed hearsay but at least you’d be susbstantiating what you are reporting.

            I don’t like how you’re saying “you’re so sure the evidence is legit”. I’m saying so far the evidence looks legit and persuasive that the incident happened. I’m also saying it’s fine for people to be skeptical but they should offer substantiation for their skepticism that is MORE than just prejudice against Chinese people in general.

            I know the broadcast. The animated gifs in the translated post and as posted by another commenter are both taken from the broadcast video and show the same things.

          • chucky3176

            I’ve posted my reply to you, above (sorted by newest posts)

          • Kai

            Yeah, I saw them and have replied. I think you’re getting ahead of yourself in declaring victory though. But good spot on the haircut thing. Did you notice that yourself or did you read it from someone else?

  • Freakazoid

    So 1 retarded kid played a stupid prank. Therefore, (according to some) the entire population of a country deserves to be obliterated.

    I don’t quite see the logic in that reasoning.

    • lacompacida

      I saw one single Chinese kid defecate in a train station. Therefore, all Chinese are scum.

  • Average Zhou

    Haha, “because Koreans all look the same” wrote the author, without the slightest sense of irony or humor.

    • SongYii

      If all Koreans look the same, and all Chinese look the same, and Chinese and Koreans look the same…. is it possible the kid was Chinese, and the Li is Korean?

  • Joe

    Not saying it didn’t happen and that kid is a twat if it’s true; however, the pictures with him were heavily shopped to show the laser light. When will people learn that if you’re going to shop an image do so with subtlety; don’t go full fuck tard!

  • SongYii

    I wish I had everything stupid I did when I was 16 available for the nation of China to post hate messages about.

  • Cameron

    If you don’t want a bunch of teenagers flashing laser pens In Inappropriate places then don’t let them have laser pens during am event with world leaders present.. It’s really not rocket science. What a mountain out of a mole hill.

    The hotheaded nationalist comments “How dare some stupid teenage kid mess about with a laser pen in front of Our a dear Leader? Execution!!!” are laughable.

    • Jahar

      The thing I thought was so funny is the amount of pride they have in a leader who they never chose, who holds one of the highest positions in a government that routinely lies to, oppresses and abuses them.

      Whereas I, a Canadian, upon finding out a man pied the only politician that I have ever voted for, immediately wanted to shake the hand of the pie thrower.

      • ClausRasmussen

        >> the amount of pride they have in a leader who they never chose

        He is a symbol of the China like Queen Elizabeth is a symbol of England.

        Think about how the British press would have reacted if Chinese students have pointed lasers at the Queen at a similar ceremony in England.

        • Jahar

          The Queen isn’t (one of)the head(s) of a corrupt, oppressive government, but if she was, and this happened to her, I’m sure a good portion of the comments would be ridiculing her as well. And would they be crying for the obliteration of the nation of the offending party? I doubt it.

    • Anark1

      ‘don’t let them have laser pens’.

      then the next day there would be articles in the western media going on about how the Chinese government even banned leaser pens. just saying.

  • Cameron

    Many Chinese people just can’t decide who they hate more – themselves or foreigners.

  • diverdude7

    …dat shit be funny!

  • hamo
  • chucky3176

    I think this was a manufactured non-event, designed to blame the Gaoli Bangzis. This has hit the Korean media.

    http://m.kukinews.com/view.asp?gCode=soc&arcid=0008634814&code=41121111

    It says that entire China is under severe anger over this, and lot of Korean netizens sympathized with China at first and worried that this was going to cause an international incident. But as time went on, they studied the alleged pictures, more and more Korean netizens are pointing to suspicions that the photos were fabricated. They are citing the impossible distance from where the laser was allegedly shot, to the Chinese official. They also point out that the recorded video doesn’t show the Korean teen at that moment allegedly shooting the video. If he was really shooting the video, it would have showed up on the live recording of the boy shooting the beam. Another Korean netizen points out that there were so many laser lights everywhere, there wasn’t just one source, it’s suspicious that they happened to pick out one source and that happens to be the Korean. Chinese and Japanese netizens (yes, unsurprisingly they’re getting involved in it through their 2ch portals which already contain sizeable Japanese and Taiwanese anti-Korean netizen participants fanning the flames since they can write Chinese) pointing out the culprit is a Korean.

    Based on past similar (and many) fabricated events and campaigns to turn the internet masses into Anti-Koreans, I’m going to say I’m 100% sure this too was fabricated.

  • Yobolo

    For the first time in my whole life. I find myself agreeing with Chinese netizens.

  • Zappa Frank

    Does anyone remember the “laser pointer” discussion of a while ago?
    In china you can laser point everything and everyone…the country of freedom

    • chucky3176

      So a kid shot allegedly shot a laser at Chinese government official, whole country is in convulsion of anger. How did Chinese netizens react after one of their fishermen captain illegally fishing in South Korea, stabbed and killed a Korean coast guard while his squadron of boats were putting up armed resistance? Was there similar national outrage or even shame? I didn’t see. But there were whole lot of approvals for the murdering Chinese captain.

      • Zappa Frank

        Sorry, I don’t understand if you really wanted reply me or was a mistake. I was just ironizing about a post of a while ago of Marcus black that said “in china there is more freedom than in England because I can point my laser pointer anywhere..”

        • chucky3176

          Sorry, I wasn’t directing this at you. Just making a point for all the Chinese people who are angry at this incident.

  • Foreign Devil

    If someone flashed a laser pointer at my Prime Minister. . I wouldn’t give a fuck and I certainly would see it as “a humiliation for my nation”. CHinese have such fucked up thinking about this sort of thing. Soon they won’t have any friendly allies left in all of asia.

    And this part” but because Koreans all look alike” makes me smile. . because if you put up a bunch of photos of Chinese and Koreans together in similar dress. . The Chinese would not be able to point out who is CHinese and who is Korean.

  • Korean Person

    Koreans are famous for plastic surgery in Asia due to the exposure of their pop stars. But does that mean China doesn’t get plastic surgery themselves? Of course not. With increasing disposable income, more and more Chinese are turning to surgery to enhance their appearance. The world stats on Chinese surgery makes China the biggest surgery nation in the world. Of course that’s only because China has 1.6 billion people. But consider these facts, China’s surgery rate of growth is 40% per year – far above than any country at the moment. China’s stats are also skewed by the fact that most of the surgeries are done by illegal underground non-professionals. 90% of surgeries that were done were illegal, thus went unreported. So to get the true gauge of plastic surgery craze sweeping China currently, we have to add at least ten times the reported number to make it properly reflecting the reality.

  • Charles

    Stupid kid. But just a stupid kid. It was totally inappropriate and I really do have to wonder what would have happened in the USA… I wish this would happen to Obama. I’d love to see his reaction. Not quite as bad as having a shoe thrown at you. Hillary and George were lucky enough to experience that honor.

  • plorf

    Karma. Shanghai and Beijing is full of assholes selling these laserpointers while pointing at people’s eyes. Stop selling them in public and obnoxious kids, Korean or Chinese will stop using them.

  • Irvin

    When you’re outside facing strangers, you’re not only representing yourself. You’re representing any and everything you’re associated with. That kid is just embarrassing himself and his countrymen.

  • chucky3176

    It’s now confirmed. The picture is fake for sure.

    http://sports.media.daum.net/sports/general/newsview?newsId=20140901185104111

    South Korean Olympic committee denies that any of their athletes shot lasers at the Chinese minister. The Korean team was seated in the part of the stadium that was facing the back of the Chinese minister’s head, it would have been impossible for any Korean to be able to shoot the laser into his face at that angle. The committee also noted that there many in the crowd who had hand held lasers shooting the light, it would be virtually impossible to pick out one person out of the crowd. They also point out that the Chinese officials did not launch any protest against the Korean team, nor made any issues out of this incident.

    Also, I have noticed that the supposed Korean kid shown shooting the laser, and the picture of the Korean with the Korean flag identified as the culprit are two different persons. Examine the two pictures closely, and the kid with the laser light has longer hair with bangs almost coming down his eyebrow. The clothing was also different, as well as the shade of the blue color of the shirt. Here’s the photo of the accused again.

    http://boxun.com/news/images/2014/08/201408291426china5.jpg

    Look closely again, this is not the kid that’s in the manipulated photo. They’ve unfairly picked out this innocent kid who got tons of death threats. There were concerns that he would not make it out of China alive. Obviously the photo manipulator took bits and pieces of Koreans and stitched together a nice narration of what they want to present, to rally the masses.

    So another big no surprise that this is fake. So Kai, I wait for your response. Why do you think this kind of propaganda lies designed to incite hatred against Koreans are always being spread in China, do you think?

    • Kai

      Whoa, wait a second. Even with a quick machine translation, I’m not sure that’s what the what the article actually says (that the picture/s is/are fake). Can you give us an actual translation of the article?

      I think the seating position is critical here. Was section 28-29 across from where the stage where the Chinese Premier and etc. were? If it isn’t, then there’s a clear problem with the Chinese netizen’s account. From the broadcast footage, there was a green laser beam seen consistently coming from a specific part of the stadium, which is what people believed to be section 28-29. That location was opposite the Chinese Premier.

      So we know there were laser pointers being used. We know they were pointed at the Chinese Premiere and others repeatedly throughout the ceremony. The footage, animated gifs, and photographs of the laser beam hitting their targets are all real, not photoshopped.

      But:

      1. There’s question as to whether or not the photographs of the allegedly Korean athlete holding the laser pointer are real.

      2. The Korean delegation is denying that any of their athletes were involved, arguing that there were multiple other people using laser pointers in the stadium, but they can’t pinpoint who those people were.

      3. They are also pointing out that Chinese officials didn’t launch a protest against the Korean team or make an issue of it.

      The last point could be entirely consistent with the Chinese government’s censorship of the story. Chinese officials not launching a protest or making an issue of it just means they haven’t done so. The reasons could be because it has nothing to do with the Koreans or it could mean they just don’t want to.

      The first two points are more important as far as determining the truth of the story presented above by the Chinese netizen.

      Without getting a better understanding of what that Daum article actually said, I’ll hold off on presenting counter-arguments for now.

      One thing you noticed that I think is compelling is the differing haircuts of the kid in the photographs at the stadium and of the Korean athlete. I don’t think the difference in clothing matters though because there was no claim that the photo of the athlete was taken at the same time. I believe Chinese netizens tried to identify the guy in the stands by cross-checking his face against the known Korean athletes in the Korean delegation and that’s what they came up with. It’s entirely possible they misidentified him and the Korean athlete pictured is not the guy with the laser.

      But so far, what we have is the likelihood that this specific Korean athlete was misidentified as the laser pointer guy. The photos of the laser pointer guy is not proven to be fake, only that the connection to this specific Korean athlete is brought into serious question. This specific Korean athlete may have been wrongly identified as the laser pointer guy, wrongly blamed, and so far as that proves to be true, he is owed a shit-ton of apologies from everyone who blamed him.

      The question that remains open then is who is the guy holding the laser pointer in the two photographs. Is he Korean? If not, everyone owes the Koreans an apology. However, the guy is clearly sitting amongst people with Korean flags on their outfits. You can’t really say:

      Obviously the photo manipulator took bits and pieces of Koreans and stitched together a nice narration of what they want to present, to rally the masses.

      …because it isn’t “obvious” at all. There are two distinct photographs. I hope you aren’t saying they cut and paste a bunch of random Korean people in the audience together to make a composite, but if you are, you need to present more compelling evidence that those two photographs are doctored.

      So here is where I am:

      1. I haven’t heard anything to make me question the legitimacy of the broadcast footage, the animated gifs, or the two photographs of the boy holding the laser pointer sitting amongst people with Korean flags on their outfits and who may be a member of the Korean delegation himself.

      2. I think the haircut issue introduces serious doubt as to whether or not the Chinese netizens identified the right person in those two photographs. The Korean athlete blamed may have been misidentified and he is owed a lot of apologies. I doubt he could’ve grown a bowl cut that quickly.

      So, chucky, do you have any evidence demonstrating the photographs to be fake? Misidentification by Chinese netizens is one thing, but misidentification alone doesn’t mean the entire incident was fabricated, much less fabricated with the express purpose to incite hatred against specifically Koreans. Just because someone picks the wrong person out of a lineup doesn’t mean the crime wasn’t committed.

      • Guang Xiang

        How do you stand discussing with someone who’s made up their mind from the very beginning? “No surprise it’s fake” “Propaganda” “Always inciting hatred” are all indicative of prejudice. Edit: also “Oh shit, how embarrassing”

        As I see it: lasers were pew pew everywhere. Some Chinese playing detective, suspecting Korean section. Misidentification with that one Korean photo. Chinese officials are suppressing it cause they want a harmonious event (seriously, if they want to ‘incite hatred’ and spread ‘propaganda’ they would leave it). Though some Koreans express regret, vocal ones claim fabrication cause nationalism. (East Asians are all the same, in this case the Chinese believing they’ve been slighted).

        I personally think that too much credit is given to this supposed ‘fabricator’. I don’t have much confidence in the Chinese shopping a photo that can keep such a strong narrative.

        • chucky3176

          Actually you’re quite wrong. I was 80% sure it was fake mostly based on the same pattern of spreading of Korean rumors by the Chinese in the past. But I was 20% unsure that it could just might be true this time and some wise ass Korean kid did it, but also hoping it wasn’t true.

          When I read lot of comments from Korean commentators of this story (which was printed in all the major newspapers which said Korean did it, without even confirming the facts or verifying the sources), about 80% said this was a shameful act by a Korean, with lot of people saying “national shame”.
          But a second article went out a day later with the story of Korean sports organization denying that a Korean did it with the full explanation. Now the comments are overwhelmingly a type of, ‘Chinese are at it again with their old tricks’.

          • KenjiAd

            I think the moral of this story is that we all are susceptible to what is called “Confirmation bias,” i.e., the tendency that we interpret an observation/information in a way that confirms our preconceptions. I’m not excluding myself here.

            Most Chinese netizens don’t question the authenticity of the photos because they had a preconception that this is a sort of thing that Koreans do to Chinese.

            Likewise, some people, perhaps including chucky3176, immediately doubted the authenticity of the photos, because they had a preconception that Chinese netizens sometimes manufacture the stories.

            But look at the bright side.

            We all learned something about lasers and optical physics in the last few days. LOL

          • chucky3176

            Good point about the bias caused by perceptions. But I also want to point out, all the stuff that Koreans purported to have done to the Chinese, were proven to be hoaxes, as this 4 year old link lays out perfectly, “National Sentiment Controlled by Rumors”, written by a Chinese author.

            http://www.chinahush.com/2010/06/25/national-sentiment-controlled-by-rumors/

            Likewise, my perception that Chinese netizens has had a real bad record of manufacturing stories on evil Koreans is not groundless (again, referring to the Chinahush article above, and once again, this incident as well).

          • Eidolon

            Koreans have been responsible for a lot more than was listed in that article. What sort of ridiculous logic does it take to believe that a 2010 article listing a few rumors that were disproved exonerate Koreans of all accusations ever made? Ah yes, the chucky sort.

            In fact, even the accusations in that article haven’t been fully disproved. Several of the items list – for example Koreans inventing Chinese characters – is in fact propagated by Korean ultra-nationalists as a search on daum and even: http://koreasparkling.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/who-invented-chinese-characters/ would indicate, just not by the purported public figures listed in the article. Such an analogy is not inappropriate to this current situation; just because the specific culprit identified by Chinese commentators isn’t correct, does not indicate a Korean was not responsible.

            Indeed, I find the standard Korean media defense of refuting a detail of an accusation and then treating the entire accusation as disproved a distraction tactic. Many of the ‘rumors’ about Koreans, especially their tendency towards history and culture revisionism, have basis in fact. Again a quick search using google.kr reveals that most of the claims have been made by Koreans in the past. Unfortunately, Chinese nationalists are notoriously ADD however and frequently make mistakes in the details, thereby opening themselves up to detail-oriented refutations even though the gist of their accusations hold.

        • Kai

          To his credit, chucky has at least been honest about his nationalist biases. If no one challenges his responses to this incident, then there’s a good chance his poisoning the well fallacies and seemingly plausible “refutations” (mostly just “assertions”) of the above evidence will be accepted without further thought because of readers’ own predispositions. All I can do is point out that what he’s saying hasn’t settled the matter. He cited a Daum Korean article that didn’t actually say everything he said it said. Right now, he has four upvotes for that, with a high probability that those upvoters took his word for what the article said. If I don’t point out that inconsistency between what he said and what the article actually said, there is liable to be more people blindly accepting his representation of that article.

          We should also give credit to chucky for pointing out the haircut issue. While the Chinese netizens preemptively said they weren’t 100% sure that’s the same guy in the stands, it is still unfair that he was misidentified and subjected to harrassment at home or abroad. Chucky should however recognize that it doesn’t mean everything is fake, but he seems to be arguing that and that’s irksome.

          I’m not bullish on convincing chucky but I do want to make sure the stuff he is bringing up doesn’t go by unquestioned.

          • chucky3176

            Wow Kai, as a mod, you’ve really hit the low with the comment that I’m honest about nationalist biases. My “nationalist biases”? Get off your horse, how is being extremely skeptical of this issue after experiencing and being aware of Chinese netizen penchant for fabricating issues to be used online to mobilize the masses – is a nationalist bias?

            What about your defending the ape-shit nature of the Chinese online users who are trying to use this to promote hatred against other countries? That’s not being nationalist yourself? Please.

            I will repeat, it’s like the boy crying wolf too many times, you cannot expect anyone outside of China to take each of these cries seriously anymore. That may not seem fair to you, but that’s how the world works. The Chinese online users have a history of fabrications, with this one not being an exception. I will repost the article which you should at least try to read.

            http://www.chinahush.com/2010/06/25/national-sentiment-controlled-by-rumors/

          • Kai

            Wow Kai, as a mod, you’ve really hit the low with the comment that I’m honest about nationalist biases.

            This is your own comment from last month:

            I’m a nationalist, true, but I’m also proponent of free flowing trade.

            Emphasis mine. I took that for refreshing honesty on your part because your nationlist biases are pretty self-evident in your comment history. But now you’re denying it?

            Get off your horse, how is being extremely skeptical of this issue after experiencing and being aware of Chinese netizen penchant for fabricating issues to be used online to mobilize the masses – is a nationalist bias?

            I didn’t say your skepticism in this case was nationalist bias. I said you have nationalistic biases and are honest about it, which is a credit to you. I have to retract that now.

            What about your defending the ape-shit nature of the Chinese online users who are trying to use this to promote hatred against other countries? That’s not being nationalist yourself? Please.

            I’m not defending the ape-shit nature of Chinese netizens who are guilty of it. I’m defending the facts as I ascertain them. You are conflating me not being convinced by your various arguments about this entire incident being fake with me “defending” online vigilantiism and hooliganism. That’s dishonest of you.

            I will repeat, it’s like the boy crying wolf too many times, you cannot expect anyone outside of China to take each of these cries seriously anymore. That may not seem fair to you, but that’s how the world works. The Chinese online users have a history of fabrications, with this one not being an exception. I will repost the article which you should at least try to read.

            Why should I read it? I knew of ChinaHush and Key long before you ever did. Have I ever said anything to suggest I believe certain false claims some Chinese people believe about the Koreans? No. So why are you telling me to read something that isn’t news to me?

            There are facts and evidence for this specific matter. You should try determining the truth from that instead of your prejudice against the Chinese as untrustworthy and thus all informaiton and evidence should be dismissed as fake lies out of hand. Spend more of your energy disproving the evidence instead of repeatedly trying to character-assassinate the Chinese. That’s like saying “the black guy did it because, well, he’s black!”

            Focus on the evidence. We already know you distrust the Chinese.

          • Gassed Up

            But if the black guy in the past had always kept lying and made up stories to paint a false picture of his rivals, that’s called a credibility issue or lack there of. He’s not discounting the charges because the accusers are Chinese. He’s skeptical of the charges because of the history of the accuser who tend to lie a lot to stir the pot. This has nothing to do with race. But it’s an important thing that can’t be ignored in the court of law when it’s basically down to credibility.

          • Kai

            Are Chinese people as a whole the same as a single black guy? My analogy was to point out the error in basing one’s judgement (and dismissal of inquiry) on a prejudice against a generalized identity. You can feel that black guy or black people in general lack credibility, but that is not an excuse or a substitute for seriously evaluating the information and evidence before you about a specific incident. I’m afraid chucky is all too eager to do that.

            The transitive property is that he is discounting the charges because they are made by Chinese people, and because Chinese people have lied or stirred the pot before, he feels he should be justified in discounting the charges when they are made by Chinese people. It has everything to do with race when he uses it as an identifier for a pattern of behavior.

            If all we had were the testimony/first-hand account of a Chinese person, chucky could get away with calling into question the credibility of the witness. The problem is, that isn’t all we have. We have photographs and footage as well. The moment there is something more than just hearsay, the credibility argument is no longer sufficient to dismiss the entire matter. Yet that’s what chucky time and time again goes back to. He’s ultimately relying on an appeal to prejudice fallacy in order to avoid confronting the other evidence.

            It wouldn’t work in a court of law but it often works in the court of public opinion. For better and too often for worse.

          • chucky3176

            ha ha ha ah…you are insane. explaining away with mumbo jumob, the fact that the entire Korean team was sitting, facing the back of the Chinese minister’s head, so could not have shot the light onto his face. What has the Chinese have? Let’s examine shall we?

            1) Testimony – an anonymous posting on an internet, from someone who said he got the pictures from. No real name, no contact name, his background, nothing. Totally anonymous.

            2) A dubious looking picture showing someone shooting a fake looking light that anyone can draw with photoshop, identified as a Korean. The proof that he’s Korean is that he’s shown sitting near the Korean team.

            3) A picture of a Korean athlete who is supposedly the person who shot the light, but under closer examination shows he is not the person. Obviously the Chinese have flipped through the Korean athlete’s profiles and they picked out this kid out of all the pictures – clearly showing that they couldn’t pick out the person that’s shown in the photograph, probably because the person they’re looking for, is not a member of the Korean team.

            4) So all they basically have is one photograph which Kai claims is not fake, and they’ve identified him as a Korean because he’s sitting near the Korean team. But Kai, just sitting near the Koreans does not make him a Korean. And the Chinese netizen claims that Koreans all look alike does not make him Korean either. So where is the proof that the person who shot the light was a Korean?

            Where is your fool proof evidence? And do you think this is right that Chinese netizens, once again, are using this type of incident to spread their disgusting hatred? This is exactly why South Korean government is crazy trying to be friendly with this hostile country that thinks they are above international law and behavior and can just randomly act without any good reason (other than to satisfy their extreme pride).

          • Kai

            Now you’re being completely unreasonable.

            It’s not what the Chinese have, it’s what the broadcast footage by the Olympic Broadcasting System shows us.

            1) Do you know what app those screenshots are from? Can you read the Chinese at the top of the app screen? There is more information about this guy than the “light expert” you’ve alluded to trying to prove the TWO different photographs of the guy holding a laser pen are fake.

            2) It isn’t remotely dubious when you watch the broadcast footage where a green laser beam is distinctly visible at multiple times from varying distances, AND observe the amount of haze that day. Why do you refuse to watch the broadcast footage and acknowledge this?

            3) Yes, I’m convinced the Chinese netizens who tried to ID the kid misidentified him. This is their fault and they deserve blame. I’ve said this multiple times now. You need to acknowledge it. You also need to acknowledge that my position was never about arguing that the misidentified Korean athlete was definitely the guy holding the laser pen. My position has been to refute the invalid arguments for the photos of the guy holding the laser pen being fake. You’re free to lord the misidentification over the Chinese netizens responsible for it, but don’t lord it over me because it doesn’t challenge my position.

            4) No, they have TWO photographs. I have said this countless times now. Are you not even looking at the two photographs? How else am I to interpret your continued misreprepresentation of this fact? Moreover, it is YOU who is claiming it is fake but not providing any evidence for it. Finally, I have never said that sitting near the Koreans necessarily makes him Korean, but there is testimony and substantial circumstantial evidence to suggest he is. No one, not even the Chinese netizens, argued that Koreans looking alike makes him Korean. Why are you even saying this?

            Where is your fool proof evidence?

            I never said I had fool-proof evidence. I said there is a preponderance of evidence.

            And do you think this is right that Chinese netizens, once again, are using this type of incident to spread their disgusting hatred?

            You just asked a leading question that assumes something to be established/agreed upon.

            Here’s what I think:

            The preponderance of evidence leads me to currently believe this incident happened. The preponderance of evidence also leads me to believe Chinese netizens different from the original guy who shared his account (未来警察) misidentified the laser pen guy in the photos provided. The preponderance of evidence suggests that the laser pen guy is Korean. The preponderance of evidence from the broadcast footage does not lead me to believe that the Korean athletes were seated behind the Chinese Premier and the other officials in the blue box seats, because the footage clearly shows that the athlete seating sections were on the opposite side of the stadium across from the blue box seats where the officials sat. (Why haven’t you responded to this yet anyway?)

            This is exactly why South Korean government is crazy trying to be friendly with this hostile country that thinks they are above international law and behavior and can just randomly act without any good reason (other than to satisfy their extreme pride).

            Now you’re just spouting the same hypernationalistic rhetoric that Chinese hypernationalists often spout. Whatever your feelings about the Chinese government and its people, please focus on the facts at hand, not your prejudices.

          • chucky3176

            Take that photo, and then take a mouse, and follow the green line. At the same time, be aware where the Koreans were seated, as laid out by the Weibo’s posting. How easy it is to follow the green light on the photo. Simply being able to follow the green light in the photo tells you, at that angle, the light will hit the bottom of the stadium, because at that angle, the light would not travel very far. Even a person with a basic photoshop skills can draw that green light. If the picture was real, and that’s the point where the light was shot, you would not have seen the green lights at that angle.

            Even if the picture is real, let’s say for the sake of argument it is real. Your supposed evidences of footages doesn’t prove anything since it doesn’t show who shot the lights at the minister. So please stop saying the footage proves anything. There were reports of many people in the stadium who had lasers – virtually anyone at that moment could have shot the lights, with everyone pointing their lasers at all different targets.

          • Kai

            Chucky, you’ve responded twice now while avoiding the evidence presented and articulated to you from the broadcast footage:

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/stories/korean-laser-pointer-incident-nanjing-youth-olympics.html#comment-1570199374

            At this point, you are trying to “win” by ignoring the evidence and instead screaming louder.

            Simply being able to follow the green light in the photo tells you, at
            that angle, the light will hit the bottom of the stadium, because at
            that angle, the light would not travel very far.

            You’re failing to consider perspective. Do you know from where in the stadium the camera responsible for the photograph is? Do you know how the laser pen is being pointed at the moment the photo was taken?

            Moreover, let’s say the light hits the bottom of the stadium at that angle, so what? No one ever said those two photographs were the exact moment when that guy was pointing his laser pen at the Chinese Premier.

            Nothing you are saying here disproves anything.

            Why haven’t you linked to the supposed “light expert” you previously claimed as having proven the photo to be fake? It’s like you’re begging me to catalog every single claim you’ve made in this discussion, remind you of how each of them was refuted, and then remind others of how you then proceeded to ignore being refuted.

            Even a person with a
            basic photoshop skills can draw that green light. If the picture was
            real, and that’s the point where the light was shot, you would not have
            seen the green lights at that angle.

            Just because a photo CAN be photoshopped doesn’t mean it WAS, chucky. If you’re going to claim it was, you need to provide proof, not just argue for the possibility.

            You have not articulated why the laser beam would not be seen “at that angle” if “that’s the point where the light was shot”. It’s a laser beam passing through air with a lot of particulate matter (hazy day) which makes the beam much easier to see precisely because all the particulate matter in the air is reflecting the light. There is no reason therefore why the laser beam should not be visible at that angle.

            Even if the picture is real, let’s say for the sake of argument it is
            real. Your supposed evidences of footages doesn’t prove anything since
            it doesn’t show who shot the lights at the minister. So please stop saying the footage proves anything.

            Supposed evidences? I’ve linked to the official broadcast footage as provided by the Olympic Committee and given you timestamps for scenes that refute many of your claims and arguments about where the Korean athletes were seated relative to where the Chinese Premier was, the visibility of the laser beam, and how accurate the Chinese first-person account is of the scene. I never said the footage shows exactly who pointed the laser pen at the Chinese Premier.

            In fact, I explicitly said FOUR DAYS AGO:

            “AFAIK, there is no video footage of the Korean kid actually shooting the laser (at least not close-up enough to distinguish the kid’s face). ”

            My “supposed evidences” prove plenty of things. The evidence isn’t “supposed” at all. I articulated exactly what things they proved in the comment I’m again linking you to that you have still avoided responding to.

            Throughout the broadcast footage, there is one green laser beam that repeatedly appears. In shots where it appears coming from the audience/stands, it’s seen as coming from the same location. In other shots, we see the green laser hitting the Chinese Premier and other Olympic officials.

            Now, this is not conclusive proof that there was only one person using one laser pen at the stadium during the closing ceremony, but it does strongly suggest they are related. From this footage, we can ask who were sitting at that section. Was that section 28-29 as the witness said in his testimony? Is section 28-29 where the Korean delegation was seated?

            If so, then we’ve gotten to the point where it is extremely likely that the laser beam emitted repeatedly from that section and captured repeatedly in the broadcast footage was by a Korean athlete. Is it possible that there was a non-Korean or non-athlete sitting there at the time and it was THAT person who was playing with a laser pen? Yes, it is possible. Is it likely? There is no evidence to suggest so.

            Is it possible that the green laser emitted repeatedly from the Korean athlete section was not the same laser that was pointed at the Chinese Premier and other Olympic officials at the start of the ceremony? Yes, it is possible. We don’t have a wide-angle shot where we can clearly identify a Korean athlete pointing a laser with a beam we can visually follow all the way across the stadium until it hits the Chinese Premier and other Olympic officials.

            We don’t have that. That would be the most damning proof. Instead, what we have are different pieces of evidence that piece together to strongly suggest a Korean athlete was responsible for pointing a laser at the Chinese Premier and Olympic officials. The footage proves A LOT. It isn’t a smoking gun, but it is all evidence that have refuted your earlier claims and that you have so far avoided confronting.

            There were reports of many people in the stadium who had lasers –
            virtually anyone at that moment could have shot the lights, with
            everyone pointing their lasers at all different targets.

            No, there was ONE report, a Korean article on Daum that claimed there were “many athletes representing several other countries who had laser pointers”. I have no reason to believe this isn’t true, but yet it remains that the broadcast footage repeatedly showed one green laser beam coming from the same spot at multiple, separate times during the closing ceremony.

            It is POSSIBLE that those were different athletes from different countries who all ran to the same section of the stadium to use their laser pens from the same location, and that’s why the broadcast footage shows what it does. However, is that likely? There is no evidence to suggest so. It is merely possible.

            As I have said many times now, there is a “preponderance of evidence” that a Korean athlete pointed a laser pen at the Chinese Premier and other Olympic officials. You have repeatedly accused this or that evidence of being fake but have yet to conclusively prove anything being fake. You just keep screaming “fake fake fake” at ever louder volumes while dodging the responses that have proven your specific claims wrong and refuted your arguments. When you can’t make an argument, you then fall back on poisoning the well fallacies with ad hominem attacks trying to “prove” all of this is fake because you feel there are ample reasons for why the Chinese cannot be trusted. Chucky, just because you don’t trust a person doesn’t mean what they’re saying is necessarily false.

            You can’t say a claim is false by arguing that people of the same nationality as the person making the claim have lied before. You can only say a claim is false by proving the claim itself false.

            Imagine this: A Chinese woman claims her Korean husband beat her. Do we argue that the Chinese woman is lying by pointing to a history of Chinese people lying? Do we argue that the Korean husband did in fact beat her by pointing to a history of Korean husbands beating their wives?

            The fact that you repeatedly make such an argument without realizing its invalidity is really frustrating.

          • Rick in China

            I’ve been watching this thread, and it has spun into baseless drivel. Your photo analysis is wrong. That’s it. Incorrect. It is also more than a little bit crazy for you to get so bent out of shape over the slight potential that this is all some big conspiracy, just think about that for a second: someone took the time to fake all this laser pen bullshit, images, stories, and say “it was a little korean kid” all to make Chinese people think negatively of Koreans? You admitted (right? I don’t want to re-read the shit above again to find a quote) that there were laser pointers being used at the event. You just deny that it was a Korean and it was in fact a Chinese person framing Koreans via false witness accounts and photos.

            You’re continually saying shit like “Chinese netizens, once again, are using this type of incident to spread their disgusting hatred” — what? Based on what? Nothing you have said or referred to is *definitive* that this is fake, all you’ve done is identify some ‘potential’ that there is some tomfoolery going on, and I am being gracious by saying some potential..because anyone with any sense of either physics OR photoshop could see that there’s no evidence or scientific basis as to why this couldn’t be 100% accurate as described (except for them picking on the wrong kid if they’re saying the kid identified at the end of the article is the same as the one with the bowl cut in the photo). Do you really think the Chinese people will all be rioting and hating on Koreans because a very young boy was disrespectful towards a government leader during a youth sporting event? Wait, the same government to which most netizens rail hard against repeatedly? What the fuck is wrong with you.

          • chucky3176

            “You’re continually saying shit like “Chinese netizens, once again, are using this type of incident to spread their disgusting hatred” — what? Based on what? ”

            Are you seriously trying to be funny, or are you really this ignorant of what’s happening in Chinese netizen campaigns to spread anti-Korean feelings the last few years? Just based on the fact that this supposed incident was posted in Sina.com, a hotbed of rumor mongerings and anti-Korean posts, gives me reason to doubt this story (not that that’s the only reason). I’m going to repost this again, until somebody reads it. The record of Chinese netizen activities speak for themselves. You asked, so I’ll post it again.

            http://www.chinahush.com/2010/06/25/national-sentiment-controlled-by-rumors/

          • Rick in China

            Did *YOU* actually read it? Every one of those items listed is silly. It’s all about Korean claims that xx is Korean, every single one, much like people from many countries poking fun at China for ‘inventing everything’. If you actually read the article, the summarization towards the end goes something like um…

            “Controversies of cultures on the surface are mostly rumors

            China does not really have much hatred towards South Korea”

            Based on a more than 4 year old article identifying cases where some Chinese netizens made claims that Korean people made claims that historical figures or cultural artefacts are actually Korean, you’re saying that works out to be evidence that any story which paints Korea or Koreans in a negative light also falls into that category, therefor is propaganda. This story is _nothing_ like any of the stories in that article. You’re so caught up in your defensive position that you are jumping to wild justifications to fit this story into your box of “They’re all racist against Koreans” and “This is just propaganda”, which unfortunately – is blinding you.

          • Guest

            The Chinese nationalists are notorious for posting and believing outright lies. The Chinese netizens blamed 2 Korean men for attacking Chinese women in line at KFC, and unleashed so much vitriol and xenophobia against Koreans. Later, it was revealed that 3 Chinese men and 1 Chinese woman attacked the Chinese women. http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/videos/chinese-girls-beat-up-by-suspected-korean-men-in-chengdu-kfc.html
            The problem with your comment is that it doesn’t really matter whether nationalists made jokes about X claiming they invented Y, but rather that much of the lies have stuck and become “truth” for some nationalists. Just look at the articles here, forums, and Youtube videos. Don’t be blinded.

      • chucky3176

        1. The photo of that guy with laser beam is fake. A light expert said the laser light was drawn straight down in a line. If this was a real picture, the light would have been shown up as a dispersed flash of light – like what you see when you take a flash bulbed picture. The person who manipulated the photo obviously picked out this guy in blue, near the Korean section, then drew a yellow light beam using photoshop, to suggest that he was shooting the light. It doesn’t take much guess work to see what’s going on here. But even if the picture is not manipulated, where is the proof that this is the person who shot the laser at the Chinese minister? There were lot of people shooting the laser that time. The only proof is the picture on a smartphone with someone saying the Korean shot the laser – anonymously. Why hasn’t this commentator come out and announce his cowardly name, if he feels so strongly about this?

        2. Why did Chinese netizens identify him? Didn’t the Weibo say the eye witnesses identified him out of the crowd? They see what they want to see.

        3. The most crucial problem with the Chinese netizens and the fabricator’s accusations is this constant fact that they cannot explain away. The Korean team that’s shown in the picture, were seated behind the Chinese minister (as shown in the picture with the red square) – at an impossible angle to shoot a light on his face, unless he turned around (which obviously didn’t happen from the live recording).

        The Korean sports committee had to respond to this rumor because there are active campaigns to boycott the Asian games in Incheon, and they don’t want to see another repeat of 2008 when Korean Olympic team was booed and cheered against by the angry Chinese fans who were absolutely sure that Korea stole Confucius, Chinese writings, Chinese dragon boat festival, Yao Ming, and even Mao Ze Dung. And don’t forget the Chinese riot of 2008 in Seoul, where tens of thousands of Chinese students in Korea got pissed off by couple of dozens of pro-Tibet protesters as well as few North Korean defectors in South Korea, protesting against China’s support of North Korea. Even back then, the Chinese students were manipulating pictures of the riots to make it look as if the Korean mobs were attacking the poor downtrodden Chinese who just wanted to celebrate the Beijing Olympics. So in essence, it’s been a long history here which makes any photo claims of evil Koreans, very suspect.

        As far as the Koreans, it’s a closed case since Chinese officials haven’t said anything and they’ve deleted all references to the incident. But the damage is already done because the Chinese netizens won’t believe that this is a false accusation, and nothing will change their minds. So the bad feelings will continue to build up.

        • Kai

          1. Can you link to this light expert’s testimony?

          Why would it have to show up as a “dispersed flash of light”. That makes no sense. That would only make sense if the laser beam was pointed at the camera. Are you saying all the other footage of the laser beam not appearing as a “dispersed flash of light” are fake? No, the light appears as a beam because it isn’t being captured head on.

          The person who manipulated the photo obviously picked out this guy in blue, near the Korean section, then drew a yellow light beam using photoshop, to suggest that he was shooting the light. It doesn’t take much guess work to see what’s going on here.

          Dude, what did I say about making comments in a measured way? You have more “eagerness to believe” (or “prejudice” as another commenter has said) than actual fact in this statement.

          But even if the picture is not manipulated, where is the proof that this is the person who shot the laser at the Chinese minister?

          This is a better argument. We don’t have dispositive proof that it is this guy; we only have the testimony of others. The circumstantial evidence is that this guy is photographed holding a laser pointer in a section of the stadium that multiple cameras has captured emitting a laser pointer at different times in the ceremony. The color of the laser is the same (green), and the location in the stadium is ostensibly across from the Premier. Witnesses testify that the laser dots they saw were coming from this guy.

          As I have said before, this testimony isn’t necessarily iron-clad. We can easily speculate that they identified the wrong source, especially if there were other people pointing laser pointers in the stadium. This guy may have green laser pointer and he may have been using it and he may have been Korean but hey may not necessarily have been the one guy who shined the laser pointer at the Premier and others. Hell, it could’ve even been the guy next to thim or around him but when the Chinese netizen looked for them, he was the guy who was holding a pointer.

          There were lot of people shooting the laser that time. The only proof is the picture on a smartphone with someone saying the Korean shot the laser – anonymously. Why hasn’t this commentator come out and announce his cowardly name, if he feels so strongly about this?

          It would appear he actually did. The issue is that everything he has said about this incident is being censored by the government. There are lots of plausible reasons why the government is censoring the story. That it is fake is hardly the only plausible reason.

          2. What do you mean why did they identify him? It’s like vigilantiism, they wanted to know who the guy in the picture was. They cross-checked his face against the Korean atheletes in the delegation and that’s who they felt the guy in the stands looked like. Look at the Chinese text above the censored photo of him above in the translated post. It says someone in another post identified this guy as this Korean athlete. In parentheses, the person says he thinks they look quite alike but he isn’t “100% sure”.

          Aside from the haircut, they do look reasonably similar. Because of the haircut, I strongly lean towards it being a misidentification, but from the facial features alone apart from the haircut, I can see enough resemblance. As long as it was a misidentification though, the Korean athlete misidentified is owed an apology.

          3. The crucial problem with this assertion here is that it isn’t proven. I think it might be a misidentification of the stage where the Premiere was as being on the same side as that section of the stadium (thus making them standing/sitting with their backs to that section of the stadium and making it impossible for the laser to hit them). I think the stage where the Premier was is on the OPPOSITE side of that section of the stadium.

          Lemme try a simple text diagram:

          X – laser pointer guy

          V – center stage, facing “down”

          ^ – stage where the Premier was, facing “up”

          What I think you’re saying is this:

          X laser pointer guy

          V – stage where the Premier was, facing “down”

          But I don’t think that’s the case. Look at the footage and the picture with your red box. Are you certain you’re not mixing up the stages and the locations where the Premier was? There’s an immediate blue background when the Premier was hit by the laser. The center stage doesn’t have it. The blue background on the same side as the guy with the laser pointer also seems to have different markings than what we see on the blue background behind the Premier when he was hit. That would suggest he wasn’t on the same side of the the stadium as the laser pointer guy.

          Moreover, is that section where you highlighted actually section 28-29? If so, then that at least corroborates the Chinese testimony of a laser coming from the “Korean” section.

          The Korean sports committee had to […] So in essence, it’s been a long history here which makes any photo claims of evil Koreans, very suspect.

          Yeah, I don’t think you’re giving an unbiased account of these incidents but since this is a poisoning the well fallacy irrelevant to the actual facts of this specific laser pointer case, I’m going to ignore them for now.

          As far as the Koreans, it’s a closed case since Chinese officials haven’t said anything and they’ve deleted all references to the incident. But the damage is already done because the Chinese netizens won’t believe that this is a false accusation, and nothing will change their minds. So the bad feelings will continue to build up.

          I agree that as long as the Chinese government prevents further argumentation from Chinese sources, the Korean government can publicly deny the involvement of Koreans without opposition, and that leaves only one government authority’s word against the censored word of any Chinese sources.

          I also agree that there has already been damage done. Insofar as the wrong Korean athlete was identified, he is really owed an apology. However, whether or not a Korean was involved in laser pen mischief is not yet proven false. The Chinese netizen’s testimony is not proven false. Did he identify the right section? Is that corroborated by the video footage? You seem to be corroborating that location as indeed being where the Koreans were seated AND where the laser pointer originated from. The only thing that I feel has been compellingly challenged is that the Chinese netizens who identified that Korean athlete as being the same guy in the stadium got the wrong guy. That mistake doesn’t prove that there was no possibly Korean guy involved. The Daum article doesn’t even say the Korean delegation denies any Korean athlete being involved, just that the guy couldn’t be identified.

          • chucky3176

            This is really getting ridiculous. We can argue all day about the photograph and get nowhere, when all you’re doing here is trying to obfuscate everything. See, this is what it’s like arguing with Chinese nationalists. It took years of showing you guys proof and reasonings that Koreans really don’t think Confucius and Chinese Hanzi are Korean, yet it is still no use – a big chunk of Chinese still believe Koreans are out there trying to steal off with Chinese culture. The proof of the burden lies with the accusers. You are so sure that it was even possible for a Korean athlete can even shoot the light at the face of the Chinese official. OK then, which section of the stadium were the Koreans sitting since you are so sure? The Korean sports authorities said they were seated behind the official – at an impossible angle to be looking at the official’s face to shoot the light. Just answer that one question or shut up. It doesn’t take much for the Chinese officials to find out where the Korean team was seated. But I would not depend on the Chinese netizens to tell the truth on the Korean team’s true seating location.

          • Kai

            Arguing about the photograph can get us somewhere as long as we’re arguing things we can substantiate. You’re calling the photographs “fake” citing “experts” you aren’t linking to who are articulating arguments that aren’t valid, much less conclusive.

            How am I “trying to obfuscate everything”? You question the photographs with arguments and I’m questioning those arguments. That’s not me trying to obfuscate anything, that’s me evaluating the evidence and arguments trying to be factual, trying to be certain what I think is reasonably supported.

            See, this is what it’s like arguing with Chinese nationalists.

            The same can be said about arguing with Korean nationalists. Stop appealing to irrelevant labels and focus on the actual evidence and arguments.

            It took years of showing you guys proof and reasonings that Koreans really don’t think Confucius and Chinese Hanzi are Korean, yet it is still no use – a big chunk of Chinese still believe Koreans are out there trying to steal off with Chinese culture.

            The same can be said about Koreans and their complaints about the Japanese or Chinese. A lot of people don’t give up their prejudices easily. This is still irrelevant to whether or not the photos are fake and whether or not a Korean was involved.

            The proof of the burden lies with the accusers.

            Yes, and they’ve provided proof that you are trying to dismiss as fake but don’t have compelling arguments or evidence for. Everything you have compelling arguments for, namely the differing haircuts, is being forthrightly acknowledged by me. I think my fairness is beyond reproach here. How about yours?

            You are so sure that it was even possible for a Korean athlete can even shoot the light at the face of the Chinese official. OK then, which section of the stadium were the Koreans sitting since you are so sure?

            It would appear to be the same spot you highlight with a red box. I believe it is possible for someone sitting in that section highlighted by your red box to shine a laser pen at the Chinese Premier because the Premier was at the time standing on the other side of the stadium facing that section. Watch the footage. It seems those officials had a special box seat in the stands and it looks like the athletes were all seated on the opposite side of the stadium (you can tell by how there are blocks of the audience with similar colors due to their matching national outfits – @~00:08:20 in the closing ceremony footage).

            I suspect you think he was standing on the same side as that section facing away from that section. If that were the case, then I would agree that it is extremely improbable that someone sitting in that red boxed section could shine a laser pen at the Chinese Premier.

            However, you haven’t established that to be the case. I point to the broadcast footage and what I can figure out as the relative positions as reasons for my disagreement. You are entirely free to cite new information or broadcast footage to show how I am wrong. Why aren’t you doing so?

            The Korean sports authorities said they were seated behind the official – at an impossible angle to be looking at the official’s face to shoot the light.

            I’m not discounting this statement by the Korean Olympic delegation. I’m just wondering if they might be mistaken like you are. I’m not above being wrong about the layout and positioning of the alleged Korean section relative to the box seats where the Chinese Premier was, but you have help me see it with evidence both of us can access such as the broadcast footage.

            At around ~00:06:55. we see a green laser from the stands. That side of the stadium does not have the box seats we saw the Premier and other officials a minute or two earlier. As that camera pans to the right across to the other side of the stadium, we see the box seats where the Premier was.

            In countless shots, we see the athletes seated in sections numbered in the 20s, which so far corroborates the Chinese account that the guy was in section 28-29.

            You have to understand that the performance on the field was oriented towards the general audience on the same side where the officials had their box seats (the best seats in the house) so the officials also see the athletes in the background of the performance. That means the athletes were across from the officials, not behind them.

            @00:09:40 we see the PRC flag entering the field. We are looking at the stadium from the same direction as the officials in their box seats. Across from us on the other side of the stadium are the athlete seats. Notice there isn’t the big blue box seats opposite us in the stands. That’s because they are on the same side as the camera in this shot, across from the athletes.

            In the very next few seconds, we switch to a camera on the ground following the honor guard carrying the PRC flag. Top left corner those big blue box seats where the Chinese Premier and other officials are sitting, across the stadium from the athlete seats/sections.

            @00:10:48, we get a wide shot of the athlete section again as the honor guard reaches the flag poles on the side of the stadium where the athletes are seated. Notice again the uniform blocks of color. Notice again that the blue box seats where the officials are seated are NOT on that side.

            The Korean sports authorities said they were seated behind the official – at an impossible angle to be looking at the official’s face to shoot the light. Just answer that one question or shut up.

            And I’m pretty sure they’re mistaken as evidenced by what we can see from the broadcast footage.

            Don’t tell me to shut up. This isn’t the first time I’ve addressed this question. Calm down and evaluate the evidence.

            It doesn’t take much for the Chinese officials to find out where the Korean team was seated. But I would not depend on the Chinese netizens to tell the truth on the Korean team’s true seating location.

            Sure, it shouldn’t be hard for the Chinese officials to know where the Korean delegation was seated. It shouldn’t be hard for us either because of the broadcast footage. You distrust Chinese netizens in general, sure, but what the Korean delegation is saying in that Daum article seems to be at odds with the official broadcast footage you and I can both watch.

          • Eidolon

            You have a serious case of willful blindness given that you post at koreansentry, where the admin and his followers actively claim Koreans invented Chinese characters, created Chinese culture, etc.

          • Alex Dương

            I was curious and looked up Koreansentry after Eidolon’s comment. It seems to me that Consoleman, your co-moderator, actively claims that 漢字 originated from proto-Korean people.

          • Eidolon

            Consoleman has done far worse than that. To him, China and Japan are both ancient Korean colonies. But ignoring him because he’s just a nobody, you might want to check out the source he’s quoting. That’s an actual public figure in Korea. There are professors in Korea who believe this and who publish books about it. Just not the ones the Chinese netizens quoted.

    • Kai

      Here’s a translation of the article you linked to by our friends at koreaBANG:

      난징유스올림픽 폐막식에 참석한 중국 리커창 총리의 얼굴에 한국선수가 레이저 포인터를 비췄다는 중국 인터넷포탈 웨이보의 지적은 “사실과 다르다”고 대한체육회가 밝혔다. Reports on China’s internet portal Weibo that a Korean athlete pointed a laser in the face of China’s Premier Li Keqiang at the closing ceremony of the Nanjing Youth Olympics are “far from the truth” according to a statement from the Korean Olympic Committee.
      대한체육회는, 당시 한국선수단은 경기장의 귀빈석 정반대편에 앉아 있어 귀빈석 참석자의 윤곽도 알아보기 어려운 위치에 있었다고 해명했다. The Korean Olympic Committee explained that the seats reserved for the Korean athletes at the time were on the opposite site of the arena [from the Premier], and that it was in an area that made it difficult to recognize anyone.

      또 한국선수단은 폐회식 후 대회조직위로부터 이와 관련한 항의나 조사요청 등 어떤 이의제기도 받지 않았으며, 당시의 폐막식 분위기를 고려할 때 레이저 포인터를 비춘 선수가 한국선수라고 특정할 수 없는 상황이었다고 밝혔다. After the closing ceremony, they received no complaints or calls for investigation from the organizing committee. Beyond this, considering the atmosphere of the event, it was not a situation where it would be possible to single out a Korean athlete for pointing the laser.

      당시 폐막식에는 많은 나라 선수들이 레이저 포인터를 소지한 채 참석하고 있었고 폐회식의 선수단 좌석 역시 여러 나라 선수들이 어울려 않거나 나란히 않아서 폐막식 행사를 관람하고 있는 상황이어서 레이저 포인터를 중국 총리의 얼굴에 비춘 선수가 한국선수라고 특정하기는 더욱 어려운 상황이었다. At the ceremony there were many athletes representing several other countries who had laser pointers. Of course there were many countries’ teams seated together in the same area to watch the events of the closing ceremony. This is why it would be difficult to single out a Korean athlete as the one who pointed a laser at the Premier’s face.

      So all we really have here is the Korean delegation denying involvement citing two arguments:

      1. They weren’t seated in across from the Chinese Premier.

      2. It’s difficult to identify who pointed the laser pointer, partly because people from different countries were seated together.

      You can try determining 1 from the footage. Is the box you highlighted in your own comment across from the Premiere? Is that where Koreans were sitting?

      The thing is, if that is true, it still doesn’t guarantee that the person who used the laser pointer was Korean, which is the Korean delegation’s second argument.

    • Kai

      This was posted today (September 9th @ 4:27pm):

      http://weibo.com/2394895404/Bl8Ul8cyq

      【使馆声明】对于2014年南京青奥会闭幕式上发生的激光笔照射事件,我们仍在确认正确的事实关系的过程中。用激光笔照射他国领导人,这是极为不当且令人遗憾的行为,这类事件不应发生。

      Consulate Statement – With regards to laser pen incident that occurred during the 2014 Nanjing Youth Olympics closing ceremony, we are still in the process of confirming the facts and connections. Pointing a laser pen at the leaders of other countries is an extremely inappropriate and regretable act, and such incidents should not happen.

      This is a statement from the Korean embassy’s official Weibo account.

      It is very important to be very careful about what this statement means and doesn’t mean. It is not an admission of involvement or responsibility by itself or anyone in the Korean delegation. It does mean they are still investigating the matter and lend their weight to condeming the act itself. It does mean the case isn’t “closed” as you have been eager to conclude.

  • chucky3176

    The anonymous posting at Wiebo which started all this broo ha ha, said the following:

    “his photographer friend had had enough of it long ago, and instead of photographing the performance, he had waited to capture [the culprit] in the act. He kindly lent us his phone with the photo, and we took the phone to the police and then on to section 28-29”

    Well, this is the picture of where the Korean athletes were seated (shown in red square).

    http://www.gasengi.com/data/cheditor4/1408/945101794d2cafe9fbe3986e35392e75_LGSYEn8ao4um5c.jpg

    Oh shit, how embarrassing.

    • Kai

      Why is it embarrassing? I believe the Chinese Premier was seated across from that stage in the photo, because they too were watching the presentation on that stage. You might be mistaking that blue background on the side of the audience as the same background that is on the other side of the stadium where the Chinese Premier was. Think of it this way, the Chinese Premier is where the camera is, looking at what the camera is seeing. That would make the Korean section across from him and that green laser we see in the broadcast footage coming from the Korean section as the Chinese first-hand account testifies.

  • jon9521

    Over reaction by the Chinese people as usual. Western politicians gets eggs or worse thrown over them without the national begging for war

    • chucky3176

      They’ve started the boycott of Incheon Asian Games and made death threats against this innocent kid who had nothing to do with anything but got pointed out as the culprit.

  • Rick in China

    Yes, because per capita works when comparing Chinese to any other country. It has nothing to do with 700million or so people living below or close to povertous, working where there is work away from their families sending money home because raising pigs just doesn’t cut it any more. Yep, per capita, it’s definitely quite small!

  • Markus P

    “Let me put in a fair word. He was born in 1998, and is still
    young, his heart and mind not yet mature, so everyone stop cursing him.
    if possible, let’s just beat him to death.”

    I was in agreement until the last part… Though i do believe the Korean in question should have been told off. This is the kind of thing you may do to a teacher in school and told off for, to do it at such a big Olympic event is really bad! No manners.

    • chucky3176

      Except they took a picture of an innocent kid and identified him as the death mark. Subsequent observations said this kid was not the same person shown shooting the laser in that mysterious photo. His only crime is he’s wearing a Korean flag. Also just wondering, where did they get the fact that he was born in 1998?

  • hess

    Which is why i wrote “some of them might pass for one another”, you dumbfuck. Its usually easy to tell east asians apart from south east asians, but some individuals do look similar.

  • art D

    lasers can be attached to a 50 cal sniper rifle, he should be taken down immediately,,,,, life of the premier is at stake….. this should never ever happen again…

  • Kai

    There’s a missing screenshot in the post that Joe translated. I’ve just edited the post to include it and its translation at the bottom.

  • Hank

    Lol, “All Koreans look alike”
    -Chinaman

  • BillBo

    Over-reaction? Check.

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