‘I Don’t Like Japan, But We Need To Know The Disparity’

Japanese rising sun flag.

Japanese rising sun flag.

One of the most forwarded, shared, and commented Sina Weibo microblog posts yesterday…

@趣味儿经济学: I don’t like Japan, but we need to know the disparity. Japan’s territory is 1/25 of China’s, but the GDP/productivity of one Japanese person is equivalent to that of 33 of our countrymen. Japan’s illiteracy rate is zero, while the percentage of those who receive elementary and middle school education is 100%, and 48% of their total population have college educations. Japan has 12 Nobel Prize winners, while China’s education system is comparable to 1920s Japan. Forests cover 12% of China, 67% of Japan, and yet China exports massive amounts of wood to Japan.

Comments on Sina Weibo:


The government leadership needs to seriously reflect on this!


Japan indeed has many areas where it has done very well, we should really reflect upon ourselves, but of course, on the precondition of not forgetting our national humiliation!


History cannot be forgotten, but Japan’s level of development cannot be denied.


Some of China’s fenqing have been brainwashed by the government, and they say they dislike Japan? If you have the ability, surpass them.


But China’s niubi rate is 100%.


This kind of comparison has been going on for a hundred years now, yet China remains the same.


I also really don’t like little Japan, but the disparity/difference still ought to be acknowledged.


How come there aren’t radiation statistics? [吃惊]


Because the Communist Party “kills the chicken for the egg” [short-sighted, only cares for certain things] to maintain their corrupt regime.


The circumstances for each country are different. A country’s development cannot ignore population factors. Moreover, China is constantly groping its way forward, coming from a state of feudal arrogance against invading foreign powers and frailty of its democratic politicization, so time will tell everything. Everything Japan has now are the “spoils” of the crimes it committed during its era of militarism. Okinawa is a very good example. This is an old debt!


The disparity is in the people’s values!


In awe of ordinary Japanese people’s level of civility.


Having a lot of people is not an excuse, what we need is time.


Although I definitely do not believe these statistics, I definitely believe Japanese people are higher in terms of character.


Don’t blindly worship the foreign, one must see both the good and the bad.


At least 50 years of disparity, this can’t be changed!


Using numbers to make a point is the most persuasive.


China’s population is 10x that of Japan’s, our overall economy jumped to the world’s second largest long ago, so may I ask where did this absurd conclusion that one Japanese person’s GDP is equivalent to 33 of our countrymen come from?


Why do you have to first say “I don’t like Japan”? Why not just talk about the disparity?


We have the leadership of the Party, the guidance of advanced ideology, what do they have?


But our country also has areas stronger than Japan, for example corrupt officials.


Because we are the most advanced socialist country, whereas Japan is a degenerate, declining capitalist country. [帅][雪人][哈哈]


The last sentence deserves consideration. We keep using up natural resources, while others are protecting natural resources~


Just facts that must be accepted. We’ve disliked Japan since we were small, but after growing up and seeing things objectively, we discover that a lot of things are not so black and white like in textbooks. This is how the world is.


Never fear, we have the all-powerful Party Central Committee


Only with comparisons can there be a sense of urgency.


If some people don’t start rumors and promote anti-nationalism for a day, they get uncomfortable…

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Written by Fauna

Fauna is a mysterious young Shanghainese girl who lives in the only place a Shanghainese person would ever want to live: Shanghai. In mid-2008, she started chinaSMACK to combine her hobby of browsing Chinese internet forums with her goal of improving her English. Through her tireless translation of popular Chinese internet news and phenomenon, her English has apparently gotten dramatically better. At least, reading and writing-wise. Unfortunately, she's still not confident enough to have written this bio, about herself, by herself.

  • terroir

    Attention: constantly comparing yourself to someone else means that you want to be them.

    Japan isn’t a mirror that shows what China should be… unless China doesn’t want to acknowledge its own true nature.

    • Bruce Tutty

      Rubbish…It doesn’t mean you want to *be* them, it means you want to be more like them economically.

      • Hello

        Isn’t that what the person just said?…akhem..!
        AND thank you terroir for not saying “so*a” always hated to see that word at the start of something serious.

      • terroir

        All that comparing means that Chinese are intimately acquainted with all things Japanese. While Chinese are all about absorbing technology and management know-how from others to better themselves, by learning all about Japan if just to laugh at their backward ways means that other elements will creep through.

        As much as China hates Japan, at the same time China wants to be Japan. Your assertion that China wants to be like them economically doesn’t hold much water when the No. 2 economy in the world is looking backwards towards a less economically-thriving country.

        To put it in a simpler way: Japan has a stalker. Hey Japan, across the ocean a lock of your hair is lovingly caressed by a the caller that hangs up when you pick up the phone.

        • Hello

          WOW!!! I need a HUGE like button for your comment! where is it??
          Well said terroir.

          • terroir

            terroir doesn’t require the use of a “like” button. In the place of that sacrifice 3 virgins to my name, or if local regulations do not permit, then scream out my name as loud as you can in regards to all that is holy when you orgasm as a token to my genius and righteousness – again, if local regulations permit the use of loud noises after 12am in your local district.

            To make sure that your partner does not get jealous of this intimate offering, use a Sharpie and write my name on your hand.

          • Hello

            ummm now you scared me…. go away satan!!!

        • anon

          I think Bruce Tutty’s remark is a bit more mainstream but I understand what you’re driving at too. I think Bruce is referring to economically as in how Japan for the most part has a wealthy populace whereas China, while in aggregate a larger economy, has much lower per capita economic living standards and distribution of economic wealth.

          I do think many Chinese secretly want their society to be more like Japan’s society (the good aspects like more common civility and civic-mindedness, greater education, more rule of law, etc.), but I doubt they really want to be Japanese in all that it entails (cultural identity and history, etc.).

        • jul61252


  • KCHSload

    Sofa king tired of hearing about China’s anti-Japanese sentiments. LET IT GO!

    • mr. wiener

      I’m just counting down unto until Cleo’s jap-hating diatribe appears.

      • mr. wiener

        Dim Mak and Hongjian can also get a good Jap-hate on , but theirs at least is coherent, informative and entertaining,

      • pada

        Mr Wiener is showing us how much he hates to be called as Jap.

        • mr. wiener

          My apologies, Japanese-hate if you prefer. BTW how offensive is “Jap”? I would have thought “Nip” more insulting.

          • Actually, my wife is half Japanese and it’s like saying chinaman isn’t offensive because chink is worse.

            I’ll let the trolls run with that.

          • troll1

            Hmm …’chinaman” is insulting? I didn’t realize that, dang, people are seeking new ways to be offended these days.

            By the way, and just out of interest, re wife:

            The top half or bottom half?

          • donscarletti

            Maria Ozawa is half Japanese.

            I know because her vagina only emits pixels in half the movies I have of her.

          • Bottom half, like a Cherry-Blossom with impossibly long legs.

            Oh God… Why did I just feed the trolls???

  • notorious

    The grass is always greener…

    • Bruce Tutty

      when you bother to cut it properly, instead of just following order

  • staylost

    China has Nobel Prize winners too!

    • eattot

      even no face to mention it…
      they are mainly american chinese, china hardly can afford the experiment cost or these who controls money do not put money in education…袁隆平 got it because plant rice no need big money.

      • bjornt

        Never forget Liu Xiaobo 刘晓波!

        • staylost

          He never leaves China at all, so there is no foreign taint on him. He is true Chinese through and through!

          • eattot

            never interested in this kinda literature prize…
            either write something bad and dark to cater the west…either no any real beauty inside…
            i think classic literature really already covered all kinda write type…

          • moop

            huh? can someone translate this? liu xiaobo got awarded the nobel peace prize in literature? wtf?

          • staylost

            All hail Liu Xiaobo, Nobel Prize winning author!

          • pada

            As Chairman of the Independent Chinese PEN Center, Liu Xiaobo received from NED
            $145,000 in 2007,
            $135,000 in 2006:
            $136,000 in 2005:
            $135,000 in 2004.
            I guess you’ll never call all these as “foreign taint”.
            Google “Liu xiaobu NED” the job is done, easier than homework left by your darn teacher this morning.

          • moop

            so, is he going to get funding for a chinese pro-democracy organization? who cares?

          • bjornt

            What kind of uncultured Chinese is not interested in literature? It is the only thing that can save China’s soul. Besides, Liu Xiaobo won the Nobel Prize for Peace, not Literature, Mario Vargas Llosa won the prize for Literature.

            I’m sure Lu Xun would’ve won a Nobel Prize if the committee knew Chinese at the time.

            I recommend reading 盛世 中國 2013年(The Fat Years) by 陳冠中(Chan Koonchung). Reminds me of the attitude of eattot and a lot of young Chinese who have no idea they are living in a counterfeit paradise.

          • Chinggis was here

            As Tibet has apparently been part of China ‘since ancient times’ wouldn’t the Dalai Lama be considered home-grown Chinese Nobel Prize Winner too?

            After the trolls have finished with Elijah, they can start on that.

        • s.pockets

          99% of chinese, don’t know who Liu Xiaobo is and they also dont know that he won the Nobel peace prize.

          @eattot His Nobel prize was not for literature!

          • pada

            Agree that “99% of chinese don’t know who Liu Xiaobo is”, since Chinese are apolitical. From top-10 blogs and top-10 weibo you can see who are taking lead. Thats also why it’s so ridiculars Nobel dug out a Liu Xiaobo from god know what dark corner and called him as representative for whole Chinese who, as Liu put and Noble loves, should have a 300-year colonial rule.

          • bjornt

            Colonial rule does wonders to a culture; look how cultured Canada, Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Taiwan are from colonialism! China could learn from the UK!

          • staylost

            Look, pada, this whole post by the Chinese is political. Not only that, it was the original Chinese post that brought up the Nobel Prize, not myself.

            Also, eattot said that the Chinese who had gotten the Nobel Prize overseas could not count because it was embarrassing. So I picked one who wasn’t overseas (and couldn’t be).

            Also, tons of Chinese scholars receive funding from the US, Australia, Canada, and Europe, Party Members included, for research, professional development, and cooperation. They even emphasize it on their CVs.

    • Harland

      Does anyone still respect the Nobel prize? It’s been pretty thoroughly discredited in the past 15 years. It’s all about politics.

      • staylost

        (it has always been about the politics)

      • bjornt

        How is it discredited? It is awarded by the most peaceful and incorruptible country on Earth: Norway. I hope you understand what politics means: the process by which individuals and groups reach agreement on a common course of action even as they continue to disagree on the goals that action is intended to achieve.

        China could learn a thing or two from the good governance of Norway.

        If anything should be discredited it is the “Confucius Peace Prize.” Apparently none of the awardees were aware of the prize!

        • Pete of Perth

          Obama got the peace prize for the potential that he may do something in the future – that’s polotics.

        • Ning

          Norway is one of the most corrupted countries in the world when it comes to human intellect, google Harald Eia and you’ll find a documentary on the sad state of norwegian science brought by marxist victim-worshipping Frankfurt-hogwash.

      • 骂人的是孙子

        agreed, for me, it lost its relevance after they gave it to a certain bald man with glasses

  • TheHansTheDampf

    This is not a fair comparison as Japan is a developed and civilized country!
    Better compare China to Indonesia, India, Malaysia, and you are doing pretty well!

    • pada

      To compare China to the democratic India should be not bad idea. especially when coming to GDP, illiteracy rate and life span.

      • Dr. Jones Jr.

        We’d also have to consider that India began to dismantle discredited central economic planning-style socialism (the license raj) about 15 years after China; thus in many of these indices, it’s tracking China’s economic development but 15 years behind. It does, however, illustrate why it’s so difficult to use these sorts of comparisons for much of anything.

        • pada

          But dont you forget democracy, which India had, is the supreme solution over communism as West lecture us, daily, and China was far, at least more than “15 years”, behind the West some 30 years ago?
          So-called democracy is a proven failure for all to see, which is why West loves to force it on competing China, to make China a failure too, as part of its geo-agenda.

          • bjornt

            The wonderful thing about India is that they allow democracy. Development varies depending on which regions in India. Interestingly the most backwards part of India are those pro-Socialist and pro-Maoist regions! Pro-trade and free market regions of India are prospering! It is up to the citizens and government to agree on what path to follow!

            Perhaps Chinese are too ignorant and stupid to be allowed to run their own country? I guess the Communist Party of China should stay in power then!

          • Nyancat

            There’s no point in trying to explain the intricacies of democracy to an airhead like pada who’s become too indoctrinated in the ways of communism. You might wanna read about Xiaogang village, if they followed the ideals of communism everyone would have starved to death, if everything belongs to the collective regardless of the varying degrees of effort put in by each individual some might take that as an excuse not to work as everyone still receives being part of the collective, this didn’t work and the farmers of this village decided to divide the plots and work individually and they prospered. So you see communism would have destroyed China. It’s ironic that you should say the exact opposite, you better go in and collect your 5 mao. Here read this link it might help you get your head out of the gutter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaogang_Village

          • Ignore Pada, he’s using a logical fallacy to force an argument.

            He’s equating a political system with economic development which although linked is ridiculous.

            The biggest thing holding china back is corruption on every level and in an infinite amount of methods. Democracy might be a means to fight it, but it’s indirect causation. What really kills corruption is accountability, which democracy provides for the most part.

            Try not to make arguments that are clearly over your head pada.

          • Ning

            Socialist Kerala is one of the most prosperous regions of India, high literacy and education rate, low infant mortality, comparatively low fertility, long lifespan, socially and economically equal (compared to the hell on earth which is rest of India)… The free-market utopia is a FAIL wherever it is applied, there simply does not exist such an economic system anywhere except for Somalia. The most prosperous countries in the world are Social Democrat, not capitalist or socialist but a combination.

          • coala banana

            Elijah !

            “The biggest thing holding china back is corruption ..” ???

            the biggest thing holding china back is chinese people ! how about that ? god beware, they are given one day democracy and democratic elections. It will result in another great leap forward chaos with similar outcome regarding casualties. Maybe all your liberal brains can’t handle the truth, but some nations (chinese included) on this earth, should never given the whole package of freedoms and rights. Thats for the ones which are civilized and proven they act responsible towards each others…..

          • Buffledy

            coala banana, agreed.
            The only hope for China is to land first on Mars and colonize it. Call it “New China” and start everything from the start with a selected population ~ Rebirth of a Nation!

          • mr. wiener

            Great, we’ll have to relabel everything “Made on Mars”.

          • coala banana

            i am sick and tired (not really) about this rights shit. Rights and freedoms are something which must be earned and must be well deserved in the first place. The wast and overwhelming majority of chinese people did and do NOTHING which should put them on a list of “they should be given rights and freedoms” (at least not in the way we enjoy them in most of the western world.

            I am also tired of this whining about their gov. …fuck that….every nation will get the gov. they deserve ! Or what do all you self righteous chinese and foreigner fake-liberals think all their leaders and policy makers come from ?….

            let me take a wild guess here: they come from chinese families, raised in the chinese culture and chinese education systems, and worked all their way through the chinese selective “norms” and “standards” levels up to the “top”….i say it again, the common chinese who is complaining about his gov. is just pissed cause he has not given a share and the “rights” to play corruption games too…..

            I agree, there is NO fucking WAY, someone can repair this “system” without sacrificing millions of lives first….its the same when i take over a factory. To repair and touch up years of mismanagement and false understanding of work ethics just doesn’t make sense and its a waste of time. Fire them all first, and then start from the beginning with new, and hopefully, more open minded people, which have some fucking common sense.

            The great Max Planck has said:

            “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

            well i don’t have this sort of hope for china and chinese people…new generation ? Fuck, not much better then the old one.

            Or in german:

            “Die Wahrheit triumphiert nie, ihre Gegner sterben nur aus.”

            something like:

            “Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out.”

            fuck, even in all of the western countries we are not given true rights and can’t enjoy true free democracy, and we are declined certain informations and truths all the time, cause our leaders know that most people are dumb as fuck, they couldn’t handle the truth, and most of the rest wouldn’t even want to hear it anyway.

            So all you self righteous westerners, which feel pity for the chinese and their rights which are declined to them, how about you look a bit in the mirror and ask yourself why your own gov. spoon feed you with what they think is best for you, instead of laying the cards on the table about what is really going on in the world…lazy ass punks ! plant your fucking trees and save a snail you dumb fucks, and don’t interfere with other countries and its citizens. Leave it up to them to make a change, when the time is right. And when the time is never right, then the people are not ready, but its not up to you ! Leave them the fuck alone, they have the right for being and staying dumb if they wish to do so…you all are not much better then them !

    • moop

      i’d take malaysia out of that. the people in malaysia are much more civilized than in china, and their nominal gdp per capita is $8600, much higher than china’s $5,200. Malaysia’s(61st) human developement index numbers are also leaps and bounds above china (101st)

      • moop

        whoops, 91st

      • Nyancat

        Yeah thats for damn sure, sigh I sure miss my days in Penang.

        • moop

          yeah, my wife and i honeymooned in batu ferrenghi and terengganu.

      • markx

        Yeah, nice place, Malaysia.

        But, get off the beaten track (those wonderful highways) and all the smaller towns seem sorta stuck in a time warp of about 30 years ago, as if no money goes their way.

        It should be a helluva lot wealthier than it is, my theory is much too much leaks out of the top.

        Funny thing about corruption, it does not hurt the economy a bit if it is all at the lower level, just money going around. But if the problem is at the top, the money all goes overseas.

  • Dr. Dust Cell

    East Asians need to get their shit together and focus on the true enemy: Guam.

    • Jeffli

      I agree!
      with these huffing and puffing generals its time to get down and dirty and take on a big bite of real war.

      tomorrow ……….we invade………………… Tuvalu! Yeyhhhhhhhh such brave challenge to victorious and cross bing!

      • staylost

        I think Bhutan should go. Those arrogant Thimpu people have laughed at the rest of Asia long enough!!! The only way to triumph over peacefulness is with war!!!

        • bjornt

          Which country came up with the happiness index? Now that is an arrogant country, trying to make life based on happiness instead of production and consumption.

  • eattot

    i think we are doing not that bad nowadays.

    • bjornt

      Anything is not bad nowadays when you compare today’s China with China of the 1830-1970s!

    • DRaY

      CHina is still pretty fucked up!!! tear up streets and repave every 6 months to boost GDP, people still living in poverty and shitty education… China is backwards as all hell.

  • pada

    From all objectively selected comments above, we can see another disparity is Chinese are better in ability of reflection than Japaness.

    • bjornt

      Why would the Japanese waste their time reflecting about themselves compared to backwards China?

      • pada

        You know the only people on earth who dont need a reflection are Americans, as they are superpower, even if a superpower for borrowing. If Japanese consider reflection as a “time wasting”, they should not complain about many Chinese comments calling them less civilized than Germans.

        • bjornt

          Actually Americans do reflect about themselves compared to other parts of the world. Currently one of the biggest problem in the US is healthcare. Compared to the rest of the developed world, the US has a very bad healthcare system. The US are also worried about their education system.

          And I don’t know any Japanese complaining about Chinese comments. You must know some weird Japanese people.

          • anon

            You think Japanese people don’t complain about Chinese people? Are you living under a rock? Are you seriously ignorant of the three-way clusterfuck between the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans that is the defining characteristic of East Asian nationalism?

          • bjornt

            I don’t make blind assumptions. I actually interact with real people. I’m glad my East Asian friends are enlightened unlike the company you keep.

          • anon

            Assuming the company you keep represents the country entirely is a blind assumption. Assuming the few represent the whole is a blind assumption.

            You may have sheltered yourself to a circle of enlightened tolerance and free love but that doesn’t absolve you of your ignorance of the prevalence of hate and discrimination that exists amongst their fellow nationals.

          • bjornt

            Do you have any empirical evidence to support your claims? Or are you just going with your gut feelings?

          • anon

            You’re going to play stupid? Fine, go Google “Japanese nationalism” or “Japanese anti-Chinese”. You’re intelligent enough to think of the right keywords to search for, right?

            Here’s a freebie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_sentiment_in_Japan

            Start there. If you’re braver, head on over to 2ch or if that’s too Japanese for you, you can start with the comments sections on popular mainstream Japanese newspapers and news media.

            Are you seriously going to insist on Japanese people not complaining about Chinese people? The Japanese are human, capable of indulging in ignorance, discrimination, and bigotry. I don’t understand why you’re so offended by this fact.

          • I’m curious what the percentage is of Japanese people who need to preface every discussion about china with ” I hate china” or ” I hate chinese” or a genocidal fantasy.

            Also how many kindergarten children in Japan play “kill the little chinese” or are taught to hate china and chinese people?

            Your sample of Japanese people is no less inadequate than bjornt’s. In fact by using 2chan you’ve pretty much stripped your argument of all credibility. You might as well say 4chan is a great source of Western culture…

          • anon

            Few Japanese would preface their discussion that way because of the obvious: they weren’t victimized by the Chinese. The general dynamic of nationalism and discrimination between the two (and between the Japanese and Koreans) is a dialogue of resentment versus contempt.

            Elijah, the fact remains that bjornt’s denial that there is Japanese discrimination against Chinese is both false and ignorant. The fact remains that the company HE keeps is insufficient reason to reject the FACT-based assertion that there is indeed Japanese discrimination against Chinese. The fact remains that him saying such a thing is guilty of the same “blind assumption” retort he so recklessly threw out there.

            I prefaced 2ch with “if you’re braver”. The wikipedia link and suggested Google searches alone were enough to prove my disagreement with bjornt. It is not difficult to find or notice Japanese complaints and discrimination against Chinese in mainstream Japanese society. I’m not saying its widespread (especially compared to China), but it isn’t remotely difficult or even marginalized. There are plenty of Japanese people with discriminatory and ignorant attitudes just as there are elsewhere, against the Chinese, Koreans, blacks, gaijin, whatever. Anyone who has lived or interacted with Japanese society would be a fool to suggest otherwise.

            Do you deny that?

            For the record, though, since you’re trying to pick a fight with me on this, trying to reject my ENTIRE argument and other empirical evidence that there is anti-Chinese sentiment in Japan, 2ch is far closer to mainstream in Japanese internet society than 4chan. If bjornt actually cares to disabuse himself of his fantastical notion that there aren’t Japanese complaining about Chinese, he’d easily be snapped back to reality by perusing 2ch. If he can’t handle it, or like you wants to think it isn’t a significant statistical sample of Japanese discriminatory attitudes in modern Japan, he can go to the mainstream news comments and boards. Sourced reference material like Wikipedia should be enough to convince oneself of the existence of what should be an obvious fact of life, but if it isn’t, I offered him 3 sources to learn more.

          • Anon, you’ve gone off on a diatribe against perceived arguments again.

            I wasn’t arguing that there was no anti-china feelings in Japan. I was arguing that your sampling was as inconclusive as bjornt’s sampling, because a small group in real life or a large group on the internet cannot adequately represent an entire culture.

            Not to mention that you provided a counter-argument by pointing out that there’s actually a number of different prejudices in Japanese culture. Possibly because like most Asian countries, the society is quite homogenous. In any case, anti-gaijin or anti-china or anti-korean makes little difference because there will always be a number of people who feel a certain way, in any culture as a matter of fact.

            My other argument is that trying to compare visceral genocidal hatred and cultural disdain is both disingenuous and ridiculous. I thought that point was made clear by my questions regading the percentages.

          • some_guy

            Japanese people only hate Chinese (and they hate the Chinese a lot). Those who are not Chinese and those who do not understand Japanese will never understand, always being fooled by Japan’s tatemae.

          • anon

            No, Elijah, I gave you the response you were asking for when you decided it was remotely intelligent to comment about “credibility”.

            I never said you were arguing that there no anti-China feelings in Japan, did I? I was explaining the nature of the exchange between bjornt and myself.

            Your argument about samplings not adequately representing an entire culture would be relevant IF I were remotely arguing that 2ch represents an entire culture. But I wasn’t doing that, was I?

            So again, let me repeat: bjornt refused to acknowledge Japanese complaining about Chinese comments and said such things could only come from “weird” Japanese people. My response was to express incredulity that he would think such a thing. He responded by insinuating that acknowledging that there are Japanese people complaining about Chinese people is a “blind assumption” and that anyone who interacts with “real people” would’t think such a thing. I replied by proving how he was guilty of the same retarded accusation. He demanded empirical evidence of Japanese people complaining about Chinese. I provided it.

            Then you came in and insulted my credibility based upon a “perceived argument” that I was somehow arguing that 2ch represents an “entire culture”. How ironic is that?

            The rest of your comment is completely irrelevant because its all premised upon your misunderstanding of what my argument in response to bjornt is. I never made any argument about equivalence between genocidal hatred and cultural disdain.

          • anon

            some_guy, no, that’s obviously not true. Japanese people also hate Koreans. :) The general themes of Japanese discrimination against these groups however is currently different. Many Japanese still discriminate against the Chinese for being backwards. That was true for the Koreans too, except general Korean society has caught up in most regards whereas much larger China hasn’t and still has a bunch of uncouth country bumpkins. Most of the hate for Koreans now revolves around the Koreans hating the Japanese and making a fuss over it. Same is true for China, but with the added continued dynamic of contempt for Chinese backwardness.

            It’s also obviously false that non-Chinese people or people who don’t understand Japanese can’t understand racial, ethnic, or cultural.

          • You know what the problem with all this is? WEsterners who live in China and speak (some) Chinese, but have never lived in Japan and can’t speak any Japanese, are only going to be aware of the Chinese prejudices and closed mindedness, and not of the Japanese prejudices and closed mindedness.
            Westerners who actually know Japan generally admit that they are very nationalistic and prejudist on certain issues.

          • Your butthurt is strong in this article. Getting overly-emotional and it’s.messing with your rationale.

            You’ve overlooked how simple and direct my two points were by going off on another longwinded rambling. So let me be absolutely clear to help you.

            1. 2Chan = 4Chan = NO credibility as a source of anything. Same goes for any source that uses commenta from anonymous commenters, look at youTube, is that really a good representation. It’s no better than using my 6 Japanese friends as a cross-section of the culture.

            2. I ask again, what is the percentage of Japanese people who actively hate china or chinese people? Even if it was a majority it couldn’t compare with the total saturation that’s present in china, from all the kindergarten children I taught to all the seniors I talked with. Again, as you mentioned a section of Japanese people tend to be xenophobic, but that’s like saying the KKK represents Caucasian peopls. Ie: Extremes, not mainstream.

            Try to simmer down your self-righteousness for a second (down to a 6 or 7 instead of a constant 11 perhaps) and see the points I was trying to make rather than what you think I was saying.

          • anon

            Elijah desperately trying to save face again.

            1. I disagree. You’re playing stupid and being a hypocrite. 2ch is a credible source for empirical examples of the existence of Japanese discriminatory attitudes towards the Chinese, which is what was in contention between bjornt and I. YouTube is not a good representation of all of American or online society, just like 2ch isn’t of all of Japanese or Japanese online society, but it is a credible source for the existence of ignorance, discrimination, and prejudice. It’s also a statistically significant source, because of the sheer number of users and comments on there, just as a survey with 1 million respondents is more statistically significant than a survey with only 10 respondents.

            You would be a fool if you think your 6 Japanese friends represented all of Japanese culture. And yet bjornt insisted that because the East Asian company he keeps are “enlightened”, he’s willing to go out on a limb and say he doesn’t know of any Japanese complaining about Chinese and that any such instance must come from “weird” Japanese people. That’s ridiculous. Imagine if I said I don’t know of any Chinese people complaining about the Japanese and that if you thin there are, you must know some weird Chinese people.

            Again, since you still aren’t processing this, I never said 2ch is a cross-section of an entire culture. I said it is source of empirical evidence as demanded by bjornt for the existence of Japanese anti-Chinese complaining, just as Wikipedia is a source, just as Google searches yield tons of sources, just as mainstream news sites are a source. My inclusion of 2ch in my response does not remotely affect the credibility of my argument that there are definitely Japanese comments complaining about Chinese people.

            I should explain the hypocrite accusation now. You’re on a site that translates Chinese netizen comments and you regularly cite such comments as representing certain aspects and attitudes in Chinese society. Why the double-standard, Elijah? How do you not feel ashamed for weaseling into the argument that internet comments aren’t credible representations of anything?

            AGAIN, no one argued they represent an ENTIRE culture perfectly, but they DO represent aspects, and the more statistical instances of it, the more statistically significant it is in representing a greater whole. This is why we can look at all the hate speech on YouTube or 2ch and recognize it as NOT representing all of human society because we also look at all the NON-hate speech elsewhere. Or at least that’s what reasonably educated and intelligent people do.

            2. I never said xenophobic Japanese were mainstream, Elijah. You’re going off on a perceived argument again (ironically accusing others of such). How many times do I have to repeat this? bjornt refused to acknowledge and even demanded empirical evidence of Japanese complaining about Chinese comments. There was no argument between us about mainstream or not, just existence. My position is that not only does it exist, but it ought to be commonly known for anyone reasonably familiar with Japanese society. This doesn’t mean its mainstream, it just means its statistically prevalent enough for denial of it to be absurd.

            We would never deny white people complaining about non-white people because we’re all aware of there being statistically significant populations of white people who do so. Likewise, we would never deny Chinese people complaining about Japanese people, because we’re again all aware of there being statistically significant populations of Chinese people who do so. Apparently, bjornt isn’t aware of statistically significant populations of Japanese people doing so, which I find unbelievably ignorant. Here’s a guy who has commented quite a few reasonably educated things in this thread professing that only “weird” Japanese people complain about Chinese and then attacking others of blind assumption when the basis for his unrealistic perception of Japanese people is based off of the “enlightened” East Asian “company” he keeps?


            Your question is, again, irrelevant because its premised upon you thinking I’m arguing that 2ch or xenophobic Japanese represent all Japanese or are mainstream. I never argued that so your question is disingenuous, an attempt to win an argument that doesn’t exist. I obviously don’t know the exact percentage just as you don’t know the exact percentage of any population that actively hates another population.

            I set out to prove that anti-Chinese Japanese sentiments are common enough to be common knowledge, because bjornt rejected that notion despite claiming intimate familiarity with East Asians, and I’m certain I did so successfully. Were you and are you now aware that there is anti-Chinese Japanese sentiments? I’m not arguing that is is more intense or pervasive than anti-Japanese Chinese sentiments, I’m just asking if it was common knowledge to you.

            If it was and is, then you agree with me. Stop trying to argue an argument that isn’t in contention. Stop launching misguided arguments with me. Realize that I see your points as irrelevant because they have nothing to do with what I was arguing with bjornt about. I’m already familiar with your general disdain for Chinese anti-Japanese sentiments. I’m not trying to deprive you of that. You’re the one who jumped in and misguidedly attacked the credibility of my response to bjornt.

          • some_guy

            If you want mainstream proof that Japanese hate the Chinese, just read Sankei Shimbun or Yomiuri Shimbun (that is, if any of you Japan defenders can actually read Japanese, LOL!). Both newspapers have literally MILLIONS of circulations DAILY. That’s more circulation than any other newspaper in the world (I’m serious, look it up if you don’t believe me. Not even Chinese and Indian newspapers, which have over a billion potential readers, come even close in beating Sankei’s and Yomiuri’s daily circulation).

            Also, democracy is a good representative of the people, is it not? If so, then let me inform you all that the mayors of the three biggest (and supposedly most globalized) cities of Japan are racist, xenophobic fascists: Kawamura Takashi of Nagoya, Hashimoto Tohru of Osaka, and Ishihara Shintarou of Tokyo. All of them have elections and re-elections due to their overwhelming popularity with the general public.

  • Stacy

    I think if you were to compare America to Japan, Japan’d still come on top. Blame the south.

    • moop

      US GDP per capita: $48,150
      Japan’s GDP per capita: $45,775

      US’s Human Development Ranking: 4th
      Japan’s Human Development Ranking: 12th

      You’re dumb

      • jon


        10 Japan
        37 United States

    • Freetrader

      Huh? I’m not familiar with any statistic that would put Japan ahead, except possibly in civility (although Americans are generally speaking, and compared to most other countries, quite polite).

      • pada

        Agree “Americans are quite polite”. They only shoot sometimes.
        But I have really nothing against sport.

        • moop


        • staylost

          Ha ha! Pretty good!

          Too bad we aim better in the movies than in real life!

    • Harland

      Your bigotry is showing.

      Look up “inaka” some time.

  • [email protected]

    Japan does seem to like buying wood from other countries. Australians had an issue with their old-growth forests being cut down to be turned into wood chips for Japanese office gardens. You want the wood, cut your own damn trees down. Fair is fair.

    • pada

      Japanese also likes to buy rare earth and store it somewhere save and call others foul play not to sell them more.

      • moop

        and china likes to constrict the supply when they get their tiny feelings hurt. what’s your point?

        • pada

          No worry Mop, I never want to cover China’s arsh, sweetie. But I still love call Japanese as “Squirrel Monkeys” (Saimiri, not Samurai) who like to hide food, and of course also to rub own urine all over bodies to mark their tiny territory.

          • moop

            yeah, tiny territory that made china it’s bitch. quit your japan-hating. its pathetic. talk shit after you’ve actually done something that surpasses japan in any meaningful sense.

          • bjornt

            Don’t worry, China is better with crashing high-speed trains than Japan!

          • pada

            “China is better with crashing high-speed trains than Japan”?
            My poor and selective memory just told me Amagasaki crash in 2005 scored democratically over 100 dead, which is sure lower than 35 dead in China’s, according your math, which is sure better, as resulted from a higher education.

          • Nyancat

            uhh yea you might wanna consider the Amagasaki crash was not a high speed train, HSR in japan has not experienced a single accident in 40 years of operation, can you say the same about China? At least in the Amagasaki crash there was accountability for all the parties involved while in China they couldn’t wait to bury the wreckage, what does that tell u? You’re right about one thing though you do have a poor and selective memory tsk tsk…

          • pada

            @Appalled—Your wife is a Chinese? But we are here talking about Chinese boobs? I am appalled to hear that you spend every evening wordless with a beer can in a darkest corner at home, but thank you still for helping China digest the ugliest population. lol! Damn I thought you were as straight as a fag then you turn out to be a bisexual.

          • mr. wiener

            I’m guessing Pada learnt his English by watching the Jeff Foxworthy show.
            Too bad he’s not smarter than a six-grader though.

        • [email protected]

          Hey Pada, Did the Japanese immediately try to bury the Amagasaki trainwreck under tons of dirt while people were still alive and trapped inside the wreckage? Nope. But they sure did do that in China. And where did you get your 35 death-toll information? From the Chinese media? Could have been ten times that many and your dumb ass would never know.

          • pada

            “35 death-toll information” of Wenzhou crash was investigated and published under supervision of mass Chinese netizens with a clear name-list. It “could have been ten times that many” if over 100 death toll of Amagasaki trainwreck had been ten times that many too, about which your well-lubed butthole should know better.

          • Nyancat

            Ahhh resorting to insults when you’ve been called out and know you can’t defend your flawed arguments. Very sad :D

          • pada

            I “resorting to insults”? Open the cakes holes you called as eyes and find out who was the first to do “resorting to insults”, when “called out” and “can’t defend flawed arguments”.

          • [email protected]

            Well that’s the first time I ever heard eyes called ‘cake holes’.
            Just what exactly do you call a mouth Pada?
            Why would people have cake in their eyes anyway? that’s just silly.

          • pada

            @Appalled boy,
            you’d be grateful I didnt call that night-pot thing over your narrow-shoulder as a head. lol!

          • [email protected]

            Bravo Pada, Bravo. That was a damn good comeback. I concede before your ‘that night-pot thing’ awesomeness. You win You win!!

          • Nyancat

            I lol’ed ‘cake holes as eyes’. omfg pada you would do great as stand up comedian provided your language could be deciphered in the first place. I think pada would have to use asshole when referring to the mouth since cake hole is already taken. Pada you’ve turned me into a fan (not literally) of your comebacks!

          • notorious

            i just stared at my screen for about forty-five seconds trying to figure out what a ‘night-pot thing’ is. that’s funny lol

          • pada

            Since you guys are all breast-fed and ready-made exactly from the same mode by your cliche media, when you raise you broken asshole, I already know what kinda color of shit about to come out and when you open your big mouth, I already see thru to the other well-oiled end. lol!
            Call me wumao or pick on my gramma as boring trick as you like, while I really consider it fair and have no problem with your bashing China and Chinese as sorta frustration relief, because it was darn China and Chinese who caused your pain. :D

          • Nyancat

            @pada ahhhh no, China has never caused me any pain and my wife is Chinese so if anything I love the place, does that make your face(butt?) hurt? . I’ll leave u to your rather perverse gay thoughts but I do have a question do you randomly pick words out of the dictionary hoping to make a coherent sentence?
            Also I would never pick on ur gramma I’m sure she’s a nice old lady.

          • pada

            You’ve got a Chinese wife? You know each country has its ugliest part of population for somebody to digest, for which I thank you very much as you did more than model citizens. When you call me “perverse gay thoughts”, I realize you are as straight as a laser beam. lol!

          • Nyancat

            coming from you pada ill take that as a compliment since you live in opposite world, face is ass, ass is face therefore ugly must mean beautiful! when i say something you can take it at face value so I salute your dad for his service to China for “digesting”, I don’t think I need to be more clear than that. You mess with the bull you get the horns.
            Your comparison to me being as straight as a laser beam is true, I thought there was some hidden meaning and I totally understand now, you’re gay for me right? Sorry though I’m taken ;)

          • pada

            @ Appalled,
            C’mon don’t be that serious with a stern face. I only kindly mean if your queer dad knew you’d be so straight that you marry a Chinese, he’d jerk you off in toilet of still standing WTC. In his redneck eyes, a bitch from Uhta would be much more acceptable even if she is as heavy as her pickup truck. So what, if she can still climb a tree faster than his cat. :D

          • pada

            Sorry Appalled, the a.m post is obviously a reply to Nyancat, since he is the one with a redneck but queer dad, not you. lol!

          • notorious

            lmao this argument between pada and nyancat is hilarious .

            and surprised nyancat has a wife. That name led me to believe nyancat is a girl.

          • Nyancat

            You know I really wish I could understand what you just wrote, it looks like the ramblings of a looney. What about you take a course in English and get back to me in a year or two, let me see if i get this queer + dad + cat + WTC + your mum + utah (not uhta )+ redneck + pickup truck = you have a queer dad with STD’s and your mum was a cat he found at the WTC that has the weight of a pickup truck , they live in your toilet of a house, and finally his neck is red(probably sunburnt, ask him to use a high SPF sunblock).

          • mr. wiener

            This thread has been hilarious. Sorry to pick on your English Pada, as my Chinese is often none to clear, but you really shouldn’t try being insulting in English as:
            #1. Swearing in a foreign language is difficult for anyone not bought up speaking it as their 1st language.
            #2.If you don’t get the insults right no-one will take what you’ve said seriously.
            That said, I must say your insults have been both inventive and visual. “cakeholes for eyes”, “nightpot for a head”, Lol :D

          • Nyancat

            @ notorious haha no I’m a guy, just took the name from that flying pop tarted cat that farts rainbows. pada on the other hand might be an asexual so he doesn’t need a mate, oh pada you so horny (for yourself).

          • donscarletti

            @mr. wiener:

            If you want to try using Chinese to insult him, I think nobody will mind. I think he should be called 能猫 since it looks like he tried to write “panda” but it came out missing something.

          • mr. wiener

            If I was going to insult someone I’d do it in Taiwanese. Since I broke my collar bone last month ,putting an end to this years sporting interests, I’ve been studying to fix up my shite Chinese and learn a bit of the local lingo. A most inventive language, full of very colourful crudities. The only language better [I’ve heard] would be Cantonese.
            Besides which, I won’t make fun of Pada as he seams to be doing a very good job of that himself.

          • pada

            No problem with your pretending a deaf redneck but message’s delivered. As Chinese saying goes–only an aching toe knows the pain in a tight shoe. :D
            Though fitting trucks in backyard is a game to you, I wish you a redneck weekend with your “wife” who, I guess, is always on top. When going picnic on that truck whose tires cost more than truck itself, dont forget bring your dog as family member, though more than 5 lawsuits are currently pending against the bitch. Oh, remember to bring your shotgun as you can get more attention outside, as all your neighbors know well how NOT to call sheriff when hearing gun shots in your camo-colored home full of stuffed possum. Last, along the way, hell yeah, do proudly fly your Confederate flags, lol!

          • [email protected]

            Hey Pada, wft? you kept writing @Appalled, but I think you were addressing other people right? Dude, I get that you are having a rough time making heads or tails of things, and yeah there are like six people laughing at you right now, but at least address the correct person next time especially when you talk about people’s wives. Cheers mate.

          • Nyancat

            my brain has turned to mush reading pada’s comments so before i lose more of my brain cells I’m going to end this before i end up comatose. Let me recover onwards to the next article and until we meet again pada, eat a phallus.

  • Dat Ankle

    China could do better but always if you focus on comparing yourself to everybody else then youll lose yourself in the process u__u
    The only way China can do better is to concentrate what will work for them. Yeah China has the second biggest economy but social wise, their lacking big time.

    • BlackSugarDaddy

      The root cause of these striking disparities between Japan and Communist China lies in one thing , and one thing only : China is an authoritarian regime where individualism/diversity/freedom of speech has been constantly suffocated and suppressed.
      If you look at the former 3 decades since communist took over the mainland China and the latter 3 decades since the commie sons of guns in Beijing started a rudimentary capitalist reform, you would understand what will work for China.
      The economical growth China has witnessed in the past 30 years has nothing to do with the communist party. It’s the most hard-working people in the world that creates and continues this miracle. What the communist party should do is no more another Cultural Revolution, not more famishing another 30 million innocent people, not more another Great Leap and no more shooting/rolling over innocent students.
      Every Chinese should read the book: From Dictatorship to Democracy

      • bjornt

        I disagree. Look at how Japan developed between the Meiji Restoration and WWII era. It was at an astonishing rate under authoritarian regimes (with a short decade of democracy in the 1920s). Also look at the development patterns of Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan. They were all under authoritarian regimes during their rapid economic growth period.

        Democracy doesn’t necessarily mean economic growth, and dictatorship doesn’t necessarily mean economic stagnation. I even propose that one can blame China’s backwardness to one man: Chairman Mao. He pretty much single-handedly made China 30 years backwards with his ridiculous economic and political policies. Some countries are lucky with enlightened rulers (Meiji, Park Chung-hee, Chiang Kuo-ching, Lee Kuan Yew) others are not (Mao Zedong).

        • asdf

          China wasn’t “unlucky”. Luck has nothing to do with this. China knew what it was doing. Chiang kai shek’s communist killing campaign was effective in preventing such “unlucky” events from ever happening. There’s dumbasses like mao in every country, but they never rise to power unless the country’s in complete chaos to begin with. The Japanese invasion was the real problem.

      • ”It’s the most hard-working people in the world…”
        where do you live? not in china, right?

        • Christina

          I think he meant the economic growth was created by people who must be the most hard-working in the world to have accomplished anything under such difficult circumstances, not that Chinese are the most hard-working people in the world (though some are).

      • Dave

        China’s “miracle” economic growth is due to:
        a) Starting off a low base
        b) Piggybacking off Western technology. It’s much easier to Westernize when the way has been paved for you before. The West developed electricity generating techniques & grids, building techniques, the technology for efficient manufacturing, automobiles, etc etc – China has used these. Nothing wrong with that, no need to reinvent the wheel, but lets not give credit where it isn’t due.

        What’s the miracle anyway? China still has a low GDP/capita.

        As for hard working – I’m sure there are some hard working Chinese, but I haven’t seen too many. Most I’ve seen and known have been on the lazy side. Mind you, I’ve seen many Chinese who claim to be hard working, which isn’t the same thing…..

  • Kim Jung iLL

    Its a disgrace to Chinese not to know the disparity after all these years

    Chinese are literally hypocrite, selfish, afraid to die, like to bull shit, backward thinking, narrow minded and most importantly not united.

    If without this, it would be the strongest nation in the world.

    • eattot

      i agree with what u said, especially afraid to die….especially jiangsu,zhejiang,shanghai area,bunch of soft bones,snobish and rich…no wonder nanjing…that bad history happened there.

      • [email protected]

        You have just surpassed yourself, eattot. This comment might just possibly be the most noxious, vile and deplorable thing you’ve ever written. Well done. I literally feel sickened by you.

        • eattot

          i do not think what i wrote here is wrong, guess u do not know much chinese history.
          in history, this area always with terrible killing,merely happend some revolts…i do not say it without any reason.

          • DRaY

            you just proved everything “Kim Jung iLL” said to be correct. If someone said this about any other country, no one from that country would chime in and bash their countrymates…WOW!!! You/China is fucked!!!!

          • [email protected]

            What you implied is that the nature of the people in those regions led to their being massacred, citing Nanjing as your example. Essentially meaning that they brought it upon themselves. And yes, that is a disgusting thing to say.

        • coala banana

          yes, feeling sickened happens, when people can’t handle the truth….when they are pulled out of their neo-liberal bubble for a moment.

          I agree with eattot’s “no wonder nanjing”…..thats was pretty much my impression when i first came to china, and up till now, I still think: “no wonder nanjing”. Travel the country, deal, work and live with chinese people, look at their ethics and how they approach things, and it becomes obvious how the nanjing case was possible….

          they treat each other like shit and don’t have one honest bone within their lazy ass bodies…..bring them in an extreme situation and they will either slaughter each other, or like in nanjing, leave the elder, women and children behind and at the mercy of an invading power. Right after that, the very same which run away, saving their own useless lives, will be the first ones which jump again on the nationalism train and complain about all the things they ran away from in the first place….a bunch of cowards.

          Nobody has to attack china now a days, western countries just have to implement one or the other foreign policy and chinese people will kill each other in the process, cause of their selfishness, ignorance, cowardliness and greed……again, chinas problem are chinese people and NOT the CCP !

          • Finger lickin good


            Look up battle of shanghai if you think Chinese folks are cowards. Nanjiang at the time of the Japanese invasion was considered indefensible and was “abandoned” because the nationalist can not afford to lose the rest of the army. With which they ( Mao and chiang) continued to fight on and locked up to 2 million Japanese troops in mainland china lessening the pressure on the US in its drive onto the Japanese islands.

            Pls don’t let your overly simplistic, discriminatory, and backward mind cloud your judgement of the Chinese people. There were more brave souls in the nationalist army than all of the US marine corps circa 1945.

          • mr. wiener

            Speaking of the US marines I don’t think there would be many Korean war vets who would disparage the Chinese soldiers for being cowards either. That was some pretty hard core and nasty fighting.

      • bjornt

        I disagree, I think Tibetans are very brave in killing themselves to show how bad China is! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/tibet-self-immolation-wave_n_1396443.html

        • pada

          I am wondering when Daliar will be brave enough to torch himslef to “show how bad China is”.

        • asdf

          relax it’s only the nuns and monks. that just shows how messed up their religious thoughts are. I’ll start caring when Tibetan atheists start self immolating.

        • coala banana

          fuck them too ! I don’t know what there spiritual leader is waiting for….the fucker is already old and has noting to loose. If they really want to raise some attention on the Tibet problem, then why don’t just sit on an airplane and fly to beijing, let them arrest him, they wouldn’t dare to kill him. Wouldn’t that be cool for a worldwide public outcry ? I have completely lost ALL sympathy for the tibetans and their problem.

          Fucking religious nutheads, bringing their death to a hill where someone with a knife chop the meet of their bones and feed it to the vultures, thinking they bring their souls into the sky, dumb ass motherfuckers.

          Dumb asses sacrifice themselves while their holy leader enjoys life in the exile.

          It doesn’t even take balls to make such a sacrifice, at such an age and popularity. When you really want that the world pays attention to tibet, then turn yourself in. I was hoping he would do that right before the olympics, but guess this bastard prefer to die as a coward he is….

      • asdf

        “and most importantly not united.” especially people like you. without you china would be a bit stronger.

      • Kim Jung iLL

        Can’t agree more. Jiangsu,zhejiang,shanghai area has lots of weaklings. However they are superior when comes to bullying the less develop countryman.

    • BlackSugarDaddy

      “afriad to die ” , who isn’t ? and die for what ?

      Every one is going to die and every one might wanna die for something. It’s the purpose of the death counts.

      You sound like a very brave man not afraid to die. How about you start picking up the phone and call every one of your friends, yelling : go fuck off, am not afraid to die , then hang off the phone and rip off your cock .

      I dare you to do it , brave boy

      • Kim Jung iLL

        Chinese can go to the extend of betraying a country then threaten. Its not a few but most of them. Foreign invaders have long studied Chinese and realize that they can be easily defeated without much effort.

        • asdf

          That’s in the Qing dynasty when China was under Manchu rule. Most Chinese are Han and are eager to betray their Manchurian rulers. It was a conflict between two ethnicities. Foreign invaders didn’t understand cuz we all looked the same to them.

          • bjornt

            That is because Manchus do look the same as Han. Heck, 99.9% Manchu only speak Putonghua, they are indistinguishable from the Han.

            And what conflict are you talking about between Han and Manchu? Besides a few Ming holdovers and the Taiping Rebellion, there was little friction between Han and Manchu throughout the Qing dynasty.

          • asdf

            Han and Manchu lived in harmony? Then why did Sun yat sen use anti-manchu sentiment to overthrow the Qing dynasty? Sure in terms of looks we are similar. And yes today Manchus are almost completely assimilated. But back in the Qing dynasty Manchus were viewed as Foreigners by Han Chinese. China was under Manchu imperialism. No different from India under the British Empire.

          • bjornt

            I would say the great majority of Han didn’t choose sides and was comfortable in waiting and seeing how things would turn out. Of course there will be outliers such as Sun and other republicans. Wouldn’t you say the Manchu dynasty employed or utilized the majority Han as their military officers and soldiers, as well as their government officials? Would you say the overthrow of the Qing dynasty was more for the sake of overthrowing a monarchy and establishing a republic, or overthrowing a specific ethnicity? Personally I think what was more important for the republicans was to overthrow a monarchy, not just a “foreign” ruler.

        • MassiveBender

          Foreign invaders have not examined Chinese swarming and multiplying like microbes under a microscope and drawn their plans against them, ever heard of the Korean War?

  • LivinBehindtheLines

    Interesting how no-one pointed out that after WWII Japan had almost no economy an the only reason that they are where they are now is due to the huge amounts of western aid and technology that poured into the country.
    The only reason Japanese manufacturing surpassed the USA’s in the 50’s and 60’s (even though they were using the same technology) was that the Japanese grabbed the ball and ran with it and USA just dragged their heals and refused to jump on the new technology.

    Who knows what China will be capable of in the future.

    • bjornt

      I hope you realize aid was not the only thing that created the Japanese economic miracle. What Japan did was procure hi-tech licenses and patents from Western companies with the promise of opening domestic markets so foreign companies can have access. The Japanese government also targeted key industries to support that were capital-intensive but yielded greater rewards such as in the steel, electric power, shipbuilding, chemical fertilizer, petrochemicals, synthetic textiles, plastics, autos, and electronics. China is actually following along the same path the Japanese trail-blazed 60 years ago! China procures (and steals) patents and licenses from Japanese companies with the promise of opening up their domestic market! What goes around comes around!

      If aid automatically equaled future development then Pakistan, Egypt, and the Philippines should be very prosperous and advanced nations!

      • Kim Jung iLL

        The ability to know fundamental and continuously innovate from there is important. Buying license and patents is just assisting in leaping. What works for Japan may not work in China due to the difference of road path taken. But as far as I see, China has a long long way to go.

        • bjornt

          I see many similarities between Japan and China. Both have strong interventionist governments that choose national champions in high value industries. Both also started initially in the cheap textile industries while later on focusing on more capital-intensive industries. Both follow the export-oriented growth path.

  • Foreign Devil

    If China wants to learn from Japan the first step would be to stop automatically hating Japanese. I was just chatting to a Chinese college girl who is studying Japanese language but not making much progress. She told me she hates the Japaneese people. I asked her if she has ever met a Japanese person. . . No she said. .. So I ask her. . then how do you know you don’t like them if you’ve never even met one? . Silence.

    • [email protected]

      Social conditioning and deeply rooted resentment, with a splash of ignorance will do that to ya.

      • bjornt

        Strangely enough this is one of the arguments by pro-authoritarian Chinese that this is why China should not be a democracy, because of all the ignorant Chinese masses who would lead China to chaos.

        • Nyancat

          Ironically it’s the authoritarian government that puts these ideas in their heads in the first place!

          • bjornt

            Fear is a great way to achieve and sustain power.

    • asdf

      If China wants to learn from Japan the first step would be to attack pearl harbor, rape/kill 300000 people in Tokyo and then deny everything later.

      I know many Japanese people. They are typically better mannered, more civilized, and less materialistic than Chinese people. This is nothing special. Better developed countries tend to have nicer people.

      Japan has better living conditions, smaller income gaps, and their people have access to better education. China on the other hand is years behind, and suffers from countless social problems which have slowly deteriorated the morality of its population. If Japan did not invade China, Mao would’ve never gained power, the cultural revolution would’ve never occurred, and China would’ve remained a democratic nation.

      Yes i am Chinese and i admit that japanese people are generally “nicer” than chinese people, but this popular perception is just one of the many bitter reminders of the permanent damage that japan has inflicted on China. For this reason i cannot forgive japan as a nation.

      • staylost

        Fatalism will destroy you every time. Chinese people have a choice about how they act. I realize there are difficult pressures, but the minute you blame something other than yourself is the minute you fail.

      • Kim Jung iLL

        Its always better to kill others than killing own.

      • bjornt

        “If China wants to learn from Japan the first step would be to attack pearl harbor, rape/kill 300000 people in Tokyo and then deny everything later.”
        What a strange thing to say. If anything, the Second Sino-Japanese War and World War II pushed Japan backwards. Japan lost 40 percent of their industry by the end of WWII.

        Actually, the Japanese people being well mannered is particular, it is unmatched compared to any other Western or Eastern developed nation.

        Your counter-factual history is very naive. China has never been a democratic nation (unless you mean 1990s-present Republic of China on the island of Taiwan). And how can you assume Mao would’ve never won the Chinese Civil War? Mao had the backing of the mass peasants while Chiang Kai-shek ran a joke of a government plagued with corruption. The incompetence of the KMT and the popularity of the CCP is what led to the rise of Mao, not Japan.

        You don’t get that sentiment from most Japanese toward the US. Americans don’t resent the UK for the damage inflicted on the US in the Revolutionary War and War of 1812, in fact the US and UK have a very special relationship. Germany and France also were able to look past their differences and form the European Union. The greatest European defender of the Jewish State of Israel is Germany. China needs to stop bickering and play victimhood, pick up your bootstraps and do something productive . Japan as the boogeyman is just a good scapegoat for the Chinese government to distract the Chinese masses from the real problems plaguing China.

        • Hongjian

          “The greatest European defender of the Jewish State of Israel is Germany.”

          Fick Dich.

          Comparing honourable Germany to the revisionist Japanese is an insult to great people like Willy Brandt, who did a kneefall and acknowlegded their historical guilt. While germany builds large-ass Holocaust Memorials in the centre of Berlin, the Japanese politicians are still worshipping Warcriminals in the Yasukuni-Shrine and blart Nanjing Representatives in their faces, that the Nanjing Massacre actually never happened. What do you think would happen if a German politician did the same to a jewish delegation, with the Berlin Mayor echoing the holocaust-denial shortly after?

          And before you butthurt me with any comparisons about how them evil brainwashed chinese peasants are still worshipping Mao, to legitimize the Japanese revisionism and worship for warcriminals, I’d like to remind you that the Japanese are your beloved democratic free not-brainwashed and humanist liberal innocent righteous people, who must have a much much higher moral standard to satisfy than us dirty uncivilized Chinese.

          So, Fuck You.

          I hope one day Chinese nukes will rain down on the whole western democratic world, and that clean, free, democratic civilized shitstains like you and the japs will be turned to ashes by the unworthy, dirty, uncivilized and communist-authoritarian nukes of my nation.

          • moop

            i see you’ve returned to your mastebatorial fantasies. if your hate for the western world is so strong stop being a pussy and do something about it. join a terrorist group faggot. go kill whitey ya coward

          • bjornt

            Hongjian is a good example why the CCP fears a Chinese democracy. Hehe.

          • Hongjian

            “Hongjian is a good example why the CCP fears a Chinese democracy. Hehe.”

            The western world wouldnt like a truely independent democratic China either. What they want is a a democratic China that is a vassal to them, much like Japan.

            Because, the ressources of the world simply arent enough for all people. Much less for a giant industrial nation with 1.4 billion people like China, to co-exist and co-develop with wasteful western nations of Europe and America.
            So, if China is a truely democratic nation that ONLY answers her own people, no noone else, ressource wars is the outcome, with China sending her armies out to conquer territories and Lebensraum for the sake of nourishing her people’s prosperity and development.
            And then? How will the western world react to a expanisonistic, but truely liberal democratic China? What kind of new propaganda and hate-speech would Mitt Romney, John McCain, Shintaro Ishihara, and the likes invent, to mobilize their sheeples against evil communist- oops, I meant, evil chinese China? Maybe they will dig out ancient Roman propaganda speeches regarding Carthage (dose evul Carthage Chinks are eating innocent roman babbies for breakfast. we have a R2P R2P!!!1 free the shit out of them and salt their fields)? I dunno.

            Fact remains, that the CCP of today is the best thing that could happen to the west, even if they are too stupid to acknowledge it. The CCP with their cancerous “harmonious world”-narrative and their pre-occupation to silence internal nationalists who call out for China to play the role of a true, imperialist superpower in service to her own people, is holding back China’s true potential, that could really badly endanger the western world dominance.

            The CCP are actually accomplices of the Western imperialists and other shitstains. With them gone, and with China being ruled (at best) by a fascist popular party, I would like them to be called National Socialist Party of China, the “End of History” will be on China’s side, with the western world finally having it coming to them for their shit they have done to China.

            But as long as the CCP is ruled by stupid liberal fucks like Wen and Hu, while silencing people like Bo and limiting the say of the PLA in the politics, you fucking westeners will continue to live on while insulting and attacking China from all directions.

            Be happy about the CCP. It is the best thing that could happen to you fuckers.

          • asdf

            Hongjian <—– smartest guy on this comment thread.

          • mr. wiener

            I great rant by Hongjian, my day was complete….Then I saw there was another 8.7 quake off Indonesia….shit.
            As I was watching the story unfold on the news I was gladdened to see people in the area remembered the last one so vividly and hightailed it to high ground with a minimum of fuss. No one was standing there numb watching the waves approach..cool.
            Then a thought occurred to me.
            Nationalism is a bit like sceismic activity. It stirs deep under our cultural continental plates and the faultlines butt up against others. As memory fades from the last quake, all we remember is the fear and hatred. We’re not interested in how it happens. We get complacent and ignore the signs that things are happening again.
            I met a survivor from Sarijavo Bosnia once. He was there all during the seige. He said before the war no-one saw it coming, they thought they were some of the most cosmopolitan people in Europe, an enclave of intelectuals were all nationalities lived side by side and the past didn’t matter…..Then came the wave and swept it all away and there was nothing anyone could do to stand against it.
            Memory of a war/wave/disaster fades and all we have left is a vague disquieted feeling, which we ignore and hope it goes away. If we ignore the signs, the agitations and the agitators it can happen again and it will. I’m not a praying fella , but I’m sometimes driven to my knees by the realization there is nowhere else to go..I think I’ll get drunk tonight, but I’ll be a careful drunk , not a blind one.
            I’ll pray for the people in Indonesia too and for us all…Please God…Not in my lifetime or in anyone else’s.

          • notorious

            Hongjian you are so full of bullshit. You criticize America and Japan for being imperalists and yet, you desire an imperialistic china. This is just a case of penis envy. You want a nation that will go around and fuck other nations like America did.

            What america and all of thsoe imperalistic countries did was bullshit, because it created all of the strife and confusion we see today in Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. ‘

            You see China’s future success dependent only on conquery. What an archaic concept. Come up with something new. Otherwise, it’s just more of the same old bullshit of people not learning anything from history. How sad.

          • Hongjian

            Sure, notorious.

            Imperialism is ugly and is rightfully hated. But if you look at all those imperialist nations today; the wealth they have accumulated through their pillage and rape of the third world effectively made them developed, civilized countries that now claim the moral high-ground to bash China who is merely pillaging and raping herself to become somewhat prosperous. On top of that, widespread prosperity that only can attained through conquest and pillaging of others, while cleverly and effectively using it for yourself to develop, which makes you a democracy and freedom loving and human-rights respecting liberal capitalist country, adding more crededence to your further conquests and rapings of third world countries (of course for the sake of freeing them), you have previously accussed of being undemocratic and despotic, of course.
            In the end: Imperialism is the best way to become great. Period.

            I wish China followed that way back then during Ming-Dynasty, with Zheng He and his mighty fleet killing niggers and aboriginals like the europeans, robbing their ressources and enslaving them for glass pearls, before turning around and using that mighty fleet that purpassed all european fleets together, to invade and kill some lowly white-trash just for shits and giggles, burn and pillage buckingham palace and the french imperial summer residence, just to show them who’s da boss.

            If China went that way, the century of humiliation, the japanese invasions (Japan would be completely either dead, or like Xinjiang or Tibet today, forced to suck Chinese master’s dicks instead of american’s), or Mao and the GLF would have never happened. No China would even be a ‘civilized human rights respecting democracy’ today, full with pride and arrogance, much like the americunts, and continue their imperialist antics for the sake of freeing all mankind from both their despotic shackles, and their ressources. For example, Kony 2012 woundt happen, because his severed head would be stuck ontop a chinese spear, since he would decline China to exploit his country’s ressources.

            But since history was a bitch to China, we have to stick around with the current cowardly CCP who cannot solve this riddle:

            “Because, the ressources of the world simply arent enough for all people. Much less for a giant industrial nation with 1.4 billion people like China, to co-exist and co-develop with wasteful western nations of Europe and America.”

            So, notorious. If you are that clever, then post a suggestion how China should deal with above quoted problem, WITHOUT imperialism and the pneo-colonialization of Africa?

            And the answer “hurrr China should just submit to the Free World and hope that daddy US would leave her some crumbs so that she can at least survive to serve the americunt master” DOES NOT count!

          • Brett Hunan

            Hongjian, you’re one smart cookie and good with words too. Even for a nationalist…..

            Just hope you use your smarts to help the world one day. Can’t imagine what you do for a living, but I hope its more important than cheating foreigners out of 30kuai at a small inn in Yunnan.

        • asdf

          “If China wants to learn from Japan the first step would be to attack pearl harbor, rape/kill 300000 people in Tokyo and then deny everything later.”
          by this i meant china should NOT learn from japan’s mistakes.

          Your counter-factual history is very naive.

          Chiang had the communists cornered before the invasion interrupted him

          Mao obtained “the backing of the mass peasants” mostly DURING the war. NOT before it. Without the invasion, chiang would’ve easily finished off Mao and his “backing of the mass peasants”.

          Yes, i agree that Chiang’s government was a “Joke” and “Corrupt” but
          what words would you have left to describe Mao’s government then?

          • bjornt

            Okay. Perhaps Chiang might’ve finished off the CCP . But that is just speculation.

            Mao’s government presented itself with a utopian vision of society and was not corrupt in the sense of graft . But yes, Mao’s government was ultimately a flawed and misguided venture that relied on hubris.

            Interestingly, I think Chiang learned from his mistakes in terms of lack of economic reforms on the mainland, and applied a successful land reform program in Taiwan by learning from his past mistakes.

          • asdf

            Ok agreed. no more arguing we’re all Chinese, stay united. I’m only disgusted by Mao. I fully support both ROC and Modern communist China!

        • jin


          younger generation dont resent japan, its the older generation that know what the japanese people did in WWII, they taught the hatred to their children, luckily the younger generation have internet.

          that was was 200 years ago…. WWII is over 60 years.(after what they saw in WWII, what the japanese did, the hatred wont just vanish cause the war ended.)
          wounds need time to heal.

          european union is purely business.
          and ofcourse? after what they did to the jews, they have to repay it.

          and french and english people still hate eachother, maybe because of the war from over hundred of years ago or because they just dont like eachother.

          its in the human nature to hate others what they did.
          its just like how the white americans descriminate against blacks even though they were free people, the parents hate the black, tell their children how bad they are, the childrens grow up hating them without trying to know them. and even after YEARS some still hate and discriminate other ethnicities. now shut up before you talk shit again, cause this happens everywhere.

      • A GUY

        Your’s is the best Comment I have heard on this topic.
        I am happy to hear introspection and not rudeness in a comment.
        I still think that forgiveness is necessary in order to move on. Love the people and the culture, forgive the past, and never forget it.

  • Johnny Basic

    When I hear a Chinaman say ‘I don’t like Japan’, I think of it as shorthand for ‘I’m an idiot, I’ve never been to Japan and I don’t know any Japanese people’.

    The ones who’ve actually been there never express such opinions.

    • jin

      and this doesnt happend elsewhere?
      hatred against a ethnicity exist everywhere.

  • pervertt

    I am amazed this question has not been asked more often and more openly. Despite their professed dislike of all things Japanese, many Chinese are in fact closet admirers of Japan and its achievements. Both countries tottered to their feet after the ravages of WW2. Japan re-industrialised, adapted to democracy and turned outwards to find its place in the world. It harnessed its one true resource – its people – and turned a demoralised population into a motivated workforce that worked hard and cooperatively. It turned military defeat into economic victory within one generation.

    China on the other hand turned from military victor to economic laggard in the same period. It made some very bad choices that it is still stuck with today. Bruised by its encounter with other world powers during its “century of humiliation,” it turned inwards away from the world, preferring self-sufficiency to international trade. It chose a socialist agrarian based economy over an industrialised market based one. It maintained single party rule and quashed both political dissent and the free flow of ideas. China also harnessed its people … badly. Some very capable people were hounded out of office or sent to tend pigs in the countryside.

    The lessons of history do not seem to have been fully appreciated by the political elite in China. There are still those who prefer to govern a docile population and who naively believe they can reconcile economic development with the political status quo. There are even some who think life will be better if the clock could be wound back to the 1960s. Nobody seems to have asked the question – which of our neighbouring countries are doing well and how did they get there? What lessons can we learn from their experiences and how can we apply them to modern day China? Until this happens, China will learn that history has a nasty habit of repeating itself.

    • Hongjian

      Breaking down to western pressures and adopting western styled democracy is the worst thing China can do.
      Sure, China would, if everything is working out, be a wealthy and peaceful country much like Japan or Taiwan. But out pride will die with our ambitions as an independent great power.
      China being western democratic, will be the final nail in the coffin for her independent road of development, her own search for a disticntive chinese coloured modernity. With the western world forcing their modernity down CHina’s throat, China will be eternally humiliated by the west, as this would justify all the rape, murder, invasions and colonializations of China by those same western powers, who are now trying to force their shit into China.

      This cant be allowed to happen.

      China should never be a carbon copy of a whipped dog like Japan, or South Korea, or a ball-less insignificant shitstain like Taiwan, that even Japan doesnt respect. China shall never be allowed to be degrated into a US air-base like Japan, or have foreign troops stationed on her soil to contain Russia, the next western target of destruction, after China fell to them.

      China must continue on her own road, spread the chinese model into the third world, push back and destroy the western intrusions, destroy all western freedoms and democracy, wipe clean her history of humiliation with the blood of all her tormentors. Short; China should shape the world for herself, and not be shaped by the western dominated world, as it is her birthright, as it is the only acceptable outcome for an independent great power of China’s calibre.

      All those dogs and wolves circling around China, seeking to kill her independent ambitions, and to enslave her to their ideologies and to make her into one of their own – they are the scum that China must wipe clean from the world, for the sake of not only her own, but also all those distinct cultures and civilizations that never had a chance to walk their distinct path due to western imperialism and their contemporary analogue, their wicked, expansionistic religion of “freedom and democracy”, which is backed by rebellion-instigating intelligence agencies and NGOs, as well as the guns of the western world.

      Failing that, China should do a last service to mankind, by wiping out from the face of the earth. Because, better no earth and no mankind, than a world and mankind without an independent non-western China, without countries like her having the chance of walking their own way to modernity.

      Francis Fukuyama shall never be allowed to win. Even if mankind should die for it.

      • asdf

        I would’ve preferred if the ROC survived till today. Not because i want china to be democratic like taiwan but because china lost decades of development in the cultural revolution.
        but since china is communist now, another violent overthrow back to democracy would only lead to more decades of stagnation.

        100% agree with your comment
        couldn’t have said it better myself.

        another reason i want china to stay in one party rule is so it can shut up the west
        Once china becomes a developed country, it will burn all their lies about “Democracy” or “freedom of speech”.

        Every government calls itself free. Every war is fought for freedom. America has their “freedom fighters”. China has some “Liberation army” Sick of propaganda from every single country.

      • DRaY

        China is a fucked place. No rights, low wages, imposible for a poor farmer’s son to become rich and successful, shit passport, shit local laws, corruption is rampant, lack of social skills, low education, lack of ingenuity. Even the term, “Modern CHina” is an oxymoron. If China was on top who would they follow? The current Chinese social structure is counter productive to being progressive.

        • Hongjian

          This is being judged from an western perspective and from a western developmental narrative.

          And “western” doesnt automatically mean that it is right.

          Sorry, faggot. But there are no “Universal Values”, besides a bullet into your head that will end your miserable live.

          And China wont follow anyone if she was on top. She would do everything to keep westeners down, invading their country to hunt them like I always like to hunt small game with my Mauser 98K.

          With no western world to compare to anymore (besides some feral americunts who are living in suburban caves to hide from radiaton fallout and post-nuclear mutants), “Modern China” wont be an oxymoron anymore, as modernity is defined by the only who survives and who wins, just as history will be written by the victors.

          • A GUY

            Let me translate.

            “Hate hate hate, fap fap fap. skeet.”
            “ahh this time I almost got hard before I ZZZZZZZZ….”

            I love you HJ.
            Sweet dreams my hate-filled prince.

          • Hongjian

            Hate makes the world go round.

            If there’s an universal human right, it is the right to hate.

          • A GUY

            Sooo harmonious.

          • Hongjian

            I hate harmony. Especially that propagaded one of the current CCP.

            Death is the servant of the righteous.

          • donscarletti


            Look, if being western doesn’t make it right, then why don’t you try acting Chinese instead of German sometime?

            My tips:
            1) Always compare yourself with something else. China must strive to be greater than America in every way, make special reference to China’s current advantages over America and make clear goals for improving areas that are lacking and time estimates for such goals. Anything worth doing is worth a concrete goal based on an existing example.

            2) Remember “团结就是力量” but “一个人是一条龙,而一群人却是一条虫”. Or even to have both facets together “一个和尚挑水喝,两个和尚抬水喝,三个和尚没水喝”. A true Chinese understands that teamwork is a subtle concept. Encourage your brothers to rise up by all means, strength through unity, but in the end, a true Chinese leader never forget who he is and where he fits into the glorious future.

            3) China does not export ideology and does not export revolution. This is why China morally surpasses the United States (see point 1). You have to make up claims that China is simply taking back what it is entitled to, everyone else is doing it and it’s really quite benign. Chinese love a good justification for taking what they want, but blood, glory and conquest don’t cut it, since imperialism is something that others do, Chinese only enforce their rights over territory they had since it was conquered in the Ming dynasty (who everyone admits were imperialists anyway, so that’s OK). Simply ignoring the issues and changing the topic works too.

      • notorious

        ay! Hongjian you sound like a charismatic dictator. I’m watching some of these commentors praise your hate-filled rants. How easily eloquence converts the nimble-minded. I’m glad the internet is your only platform. If a person like you, were ever to have a semblance of power it would create global imbalance.

        • Capt. WED

          In my limited experience I haven’t met a single young Chinese person in China that’s crazy like Hongjian. I’m not sure he’s even Chinese. (Prove me wrong by responding in Chinese Hongjian).

          • Capt. WED

            because they all have a FUCKING LIFE.

    • MassiveBender

      I think the lessons of history haven’t really been well interpreted by the posters: Japan was much more industrially developed by than China in the first place, then after the war received huge amounts of aid from America and preferential treatment; that’s why after the Soviet Union fell the Japanese economy nosedived because the US stopped giving the Japanese so much aid and preferential tariffs in the US.

      China on the other hand has been shunned by the world since the revolution. America and her allies led an embargo of China that denied the Chinese things as simple as combs or nylon because these were enticement goods that could apparently be used by communists to seduce their populations. The Russians screwed the Chinese over and China was denied recognition by the UN until the late seventies, not to mention Jiang Jieshi stole all of China’s money when he fled to Taiwan. Had the ROC survived then there is no way that either China or Taiwan would be democracies. Taiwan wasn’t until after the fall of the USSR and the US often considered assassinating Jiang Jieshi because he was such a despotic liability. The GMD were officially fascist but too incompetent, corrupt and tyrannical to achieve the kind of success Hitler ever did. If China were still run by the GMD then all the Tibetans, Xinjiangers and other minorities would have been sent to death camps; maybe China would be starting to liberalise now because after the Cold War the US wouldn’t support the GMD dictatorship anymore, like Korea or Taiwan, but Korea and Taiwan are small, China would be too big for US to have the same level of influence over. Had the ROC stayed in power than we would probably have Tibetans doing 9/11 to protest US support of the GMD genocide.

      • Hongjian

        “If China were still run by the GMD then all the Tibetans, Xinjiangers and other minorities would have been sent to death camps”

        Cool, then China would be like Japan and Austrialia today, who wiped out their minorities until the last child, attaining a truely harmonious, because ethnically pure, society and nation, while using that as moral backing to criticize China’s minority policies and alledged “cultural genocide” in Tibet and Xinjiang.

        Lesson of history: Genocide your minorities while the world still doesnt give a fuck. Later on, it only will become harder and harder for multi-ethnic nations, who werent that ruthless.

        • staylost

          All while the United States, decades long master of Earth, is a relatively new nation that enshrines multiculturalism. They’d probably even let Hongjian join.

        • donscarletti

          Japan’s endemic discrimination against Ainu and Australia’s history of forced white indoctrination camps for Aboriginies is being critisized by a German of all people.

          At least the Aboriginies were let out of the camp after they spoke English and could round up cattle, in the German camps, one tends to just have to try not to die until the Red Army comes.

          • mr. wiener

            Pot:Excuse me Mr. Kettle.
            Kettle: Yes?
            Pot: You’re a golliwog.

          • Hongjian

            Germans, as probably the only people in the world who actually built memorials reminding of their own comitted crimes against others in their capital-city and actually outlawed the denial and revisionism of those crimes even though they arent the victims themselves, have the greatest moral backing to speak up and call bullshit on Japan’s and Australia’s, as well as the entire hypocritical anglo-saxon race’s claim of innocence and moral superiority.

            I’m a nazi anyway, so I dont care. I can safely say that Anglo-Saxons and their disgusting off-springs and vassals (Japanese, for example) are the scum of humanity that needs to be eventually wiped clean from the face of the earth.

          • moop

            so this is what a german Anders Behring Breivik sounds like

          • mr. wiener

            So let me get this all straight…
            You say you are a nazi.
            You also say you are an woman of asian decent.
            You advocate the extermination of Anglo-Saxons.
            Either you are going to have to start your own fringe group [Asian girl nazis for killing Anglo-Saxons:AGNKAS], or you are going to feel very out of place at the next skinhead rally.

          • moop

            dog-boner is probably mixed white and chinese, never felt accepted by whitey but felt accepted by the chinese. this is the seed of dog-boner’s hatred for whitey and the west. we all have to pay because little klaus schmidt didn’t want to share his toys with a chinese dog-boner

          • donscarletti

            Are you of East Asian decent Hongjian?

            I heard some Germans of Asian decent were let into the Burschenschaft in Nordrhein-Westfalen on the grounds of being like super-duper German inside, but then the Bavarians, who still hold true to the tenants of the master race kicked up a fuss.

            Were you one of those guys? I’m sure if those Bavarians could read your nationalist ranting, they would open their arms in welcome.

        • [email protected]

          Hi Hongjian, I gotta say –
          First – please learn how to spell ‘Australia’.
          Second – Australians didn’t do anything to the Aboriginal people. You are thinking about the European settlers. Australians are the descendents of those Europeans and we came later.
          Third – the European settlers didn’t ‘wipe out their minorities until the last child’. As you describe. What they did was steal aboriginal children from their tribal community homes and force them to be reeducated, wear clothing, live in white boarding schools and go to church. Effectively leading to what is now called the “Stolen Generation”, a crime against the indigenous people which Australia’s leaders have a very hard time apologizing for sadly.
          Fourth, the result of this regrettable part of Australia’s history is the direct cause of Australia’s very inharmonious society wherein which too many Aborigines feel disenfranchised and harbor very deep resentment towards the white people who live in their country.
          While I am speaking generally, because I am no history scholar, at least get your facts straight if you are going to talk about my birth nation. Because clearly you know very little and it makes your comment seem like childish blathertalk.

          • Ace

            Another White Trash trying VERY HARD to cover up the crimes their ancestors did. No matter how you may try to hide it , ALL White Trash from the oz are DESCENDANTS of hard core criminals!Once a criminal,always a criminal.Now that’s undeniable!

          • mr. wiener

            Hush now Ace,the grownups are talking

  • quill

    china is a developing and japan is a developed country there is nothing to compare to between the two.
    also japan began to industrialize during the meiji period and having the ability and know how earlier than china. china has 1.3 billion while japan has about 120 millions only 10% that of china.
    and industrial developing country is not a friendly place for environment until today i dont see any of this changing, until a country become fully developed then they can send the operation overseas to pollute environment in other country

    • DRaY

      Japanese have a better work ethic than Chinese people do. Also they are creative people. Chinese workers have a terrible work ethic, and the “guanxi” nonsense stifles any creativity or personal style. Chinese workers run away from problems and usually try to scape goat the nearest person when anything goes wrong. China has a long way to go.

      • anon

        Work ethic and creativity are both socialized, not innate. Very few people would apply the “creative” label to the Japanese 40-50 years ago when everything the Japanese made were just as derivative as the shanzhai stuff that comes out of China. With their development towards becoming a first-world economy came “creativity”.

        Much of the work ethic stereotype that Japan has developed comes from socializing much of its work force to be corporate cogs and drones without any creativity whatsoever, just the socialized patience to put in long working hours and rigidly conform to hierarchy. Creativity comes from the few, not the masses in such a situation, and the “creativity” in Japan is actually different from that in say America, in terms of where it is expected and how it is to be asserted.

        Many Chinese workers do indeed shirk responsibility and run away from problems but that’s honestly not uncommon amongst most workforces, even in Japan (if you’ve ever worked there). Some are overachievers while many others just coast or “hun”. In terms of proportion, it isn’t that far off. There’s just much more Chinese people. But yes, for many Westerners, we think the average Chinese person or worker could be “better”.

        As for “guanxi”, its characteristic of Japan as well so I wouldn’t really pin that fault on China. Frankly, connections dominate the working world just about everywhere. Only the most naive fresh-faced college graduate still clings to the illusion of meritocracy. Are some places better than others? Absolutely, but in this case, Japan really isn’t that different from China. Guanxi is obnoxiously prevalent in both.

      • thekills

        I think Chinese people have a very strong work ethic and that’s partly why its economy has rapidly developed…not just because of foreign investment. China is the world’s factory with masses of people working endless hours manufacturing shit like the iphone for pennies.

        • [email protected]

          When you look at it from that perspective tk, China does seem prosperous and productive, but look at it from another perspective for a moment.

          China has become a country whose universities train their students to copy and copy and copy. Never training or encouraging them to innovate or create.
          This is a country where it takes hundreds of people to do the same job a small team of skilled workers could do and do much faster.
          A country where unqualified workers are tasked with construction and maintenance and which as a result means most things break down quickly and or need constant regular repairs.
          A country where it is quite common to see the same street corner or bit of footpath or underground piping repaired 20 times in one year because each time the people whose job it was to fix it or make it work or repair it or install it properly didn’t or couldn’t do that.
          Yes, lots of workers China has. Lots and lots and lots.

          Bottom line though is that the strong work ethic you mentioned is not what you think.
          A nation with staggering numbers of workers on hand and the desire of each worker to not starve to death as it were will always be trumped by a nation whose workforce strives to progress through inspiration, drive and qualification + energy and enthusiasm, regardless of their numbers.

          At least, that’s what I reckon.

          • anon

            I don’t think thekills was trying to make China seem prosperous and productive. You’re mischaracterizing his intent and then setting out to disprove it.

            “Strong work ethic” I think is vague. I’d rather characterize much of China’s workforce as “long suffering”, meaning they’re able to put up with a lot of shit in order to make a living, especially those in rural parts and lower social strata who know they don’t have much education and technical skills. They’ll do grueling labor and they’ll clamor for overtime in order to make more money in hopes of improving some aspect of their lives or their family’s lives.

            I think that should be acknowledged and respected.

            China is weighed down by a lot of history and a lot of people. You may not like that they’re all unskilled but that’s unfortunately the product of history, and the present demands that these unskilled workers have jobs or else they’ll riot and be another part of China’s history that has hindered it from developing into a first-world educated labor force with first-world creative industries. Education and systems of education don’t magically pop up overnight. They’re developed over time and while we can all argue China can do better, they’re already improving and that’s good. Korea went through the same process, of having tons of unskilled poorly educated labor and schooling that emphasized rote memorization and copying others before it developed further. Same with Japan, though Japan was slightly better because a lot carried over from its earlier “modernization”.

            thekills is not arguing that a nation with staggering numbers of workers not wanting to starve to death will trump or should be compared to a nation with a more educated and developed workforce. He’s not making an argument that quantity will trump quality. He’s just saying Chinese people do have a work ethic, that they do work, and the results of that can be seen in China’s modern era growth and development.

      • quill

        china has long way to go as a developing country, china is yet to have an international quality brand but the local brands are doing well in china, work ethic will grow as the company grow, that is for sure.
        work ethic can be shaped by the company culture, but why chinese worker in western goods manufacture had to have better work ethic??? those companies is not building a brand and they are doing well until today.

        anyway japanese work ethic is way above american as well.

    • donscarletti

      China is not some country that when white man found it, the natives were running around in loincloths throwing sharp sticks at each other. China has had infrastructure slightly behind to exceeding the west at all points in the last 2000 years, with roads, cities, canals and all that stuff you need to run a country.

      Since Xu Guangqi originally translated a bunch of Latin manuscripts on mathematics, astronomy and physics to classical Chinese, there has been general access to most of the world’s knowledge in China and a relatively large educated class to understand it.

      Go to some shitty fourth rate inland city in China’s heartland, look around to see if there is anything that gives you the impression of being in a backward third world hellhole, like starving people, bandits or families living in garbage dumps. Sure, there might be some people living in shacks and eating twigs in Guizhou and Tibet, but there are another billion people who aren’t and have not been for three generations. China’s not even that much of a shitty place, it’s just rough around a few edges, nothing to justify a handicap.

      China’s a developing country? Well, they’re certainly developing their highspeed rail network and developing a subway system in every sub-provincial city, but that’s about it. No, this is just a bullshit excuse brought up to justify shitty behaviour and under-contribution to certain fields. Japan developed in thirty years from being a medieval feudal state to a world industrial power and in 1905 made the Russian Empire its bitch so hard that its government collapsed.

      As for the Nobel Prize, well, there are 7 Chinese born laureates who’s work can be legally viewed in China. Two are Caucasian, one Japanese from Manchukuo and none of the remainder did their work in China or hold Chinese citizenship. Why? Because to the Chinese administrator’s mind this stuff is not important. That is not to say the prizes are not important, I’m sure China would willingly pay dearly for one, but not the research that leads to such things. Groundbreaking research will not yield money, power, glory or sex to the administrator in the term so he is not interested, and any Chinese who feels differently will either reluctantly tow that line or go somewhere else.

  • pokosan

    I’m geunine Japanese.
    By reading a lot of comments here and having seen the tendency of heat-up discussion when it comes to a topic of the comparison between China and Japan all over the Internet, we actually really love to talk about such a topic, contradictorily huh?

    • TheHansTheDampf

      you’re not Japanese.

  • jeffli

    To be serious,
    ////I could write a book about this stuff//// there’ll be simplifications to the point of error but by and by this will be brief yet reasonable.

    one cannot compare China with Japan.
    Japan opened up by the end of the industrial revolution while China’s “Imperial” policy was very closed door and controlled (actually they were not successful due to internal struggles – warlordism etc.)
    It wasn’t until about 1902 reforms were started but alas too little too late.
    meanwhile Japans industrial development was developing in leaps and bounds.
    By then Japan had a reasonably successful navy, a burgeoning economy, engaging with the western powers rather than resisting them.
    but Chinas Empress CiXi spent the naval budget on the summer palace (marble boat and other ridiculous baubles)
    then began high taxes, drug abuse amongst Qing dynasty officials (from the opium wars) famine and floods accompanied from pressure from external forces and incompetent governance by the Qing dynasty officials.

    After 1945 Japan was humbled but learnt from western powers (mainly America England France and to some extent west Germany) to improve and direct its manufacturing capability adopting foreign technological programs.

    At this time there was still civil war 1945 to 1949 after which China was then involved in various communist bloc against super powers that could have helped.
    Korean war/Vietnam war, border skirmishes with Russia every few years after Stalin died. 100 flowers critic of the middle 1950s where intellectuals who wanted to help improve their motherland were forced to the countryside to grow vegetables.
    Stupid famines caused by killing all the birds then crops destroyed by insects, and finally the crippling cultural Revolution from 1966 to 1976 where schools, universities and hospitals were emptied and many more intellectuals and people making up the cultural cornerstones of society were killed by angry brainwashed mobs. Some say the death toll here during the cultural revolution is equal to Hitler Stalin and Hirohito all put together! Acts of demented cannibalism was also reported in the south western provinces!
    Only the Peoples Liberation Army had some sense of structure but at lower ranks serving members were not immune to this intense “Red Guard” madness.
    On a high technological note the PLA were able to develop Nuclear weapon capability somewhere between 1968 or 1972 …(correct me if I’m wrong) Thus entering the cold war proper ensuring M.A.D. with any nuclear weapon enabled foe.
    But still even through out the 1970s very little development went on. China was on its knees, slave to its own central government controlled subsistence farming agronomy where the general public in cities such as Shanghai survived on food-stamps and ate at communal public kitchens.

    Meanwhile…… in JAPAN major changes in Japans governance to an “almost” democracy lead by the technocrats and large corporations, research projects, engaging diplomacy in a more proactive positive light and learning from it.
    By the 1960s they are exporting:
    heavy machinery
    ship building
    Automotive ( the toyota crown -what a success!)
    electronics and design
    most famous companies just to name a few Toyota, Mitsubishi, Honda enjoyed a stable environment enhancing continuity and development to what they are today.
    The JAPANESE Govt. has enforced standards (JIS) that are followed by Japans corporations.

    Here in CHINA there is a lot of Foreign investment but no company can ever get their money back its just impossible to pull out money to be profitable Hence many foreign companies have said “the party’s over here, where is teh profitability of these so called ‘joint ventures'”
    China still won’t and probably now would not be able to join international Intellectual Property bodies due to local law being either vague or just ineffective and corruptable (don’t forget many senior judges and govt. operating today (60y/o ) were planting rice when they should have been in Law and politics school!)

    China is developing fast due to the convenience of copying what has already been proved in other countries and formerly what was a very economical labour market with reasonable infrastructure.
    as other developing nations with low cost labour markets develop import/export relationships and take charge to develop their own natural resources ( examples include Vietnam, west coast Africa, Brazil, central American countries)
    These other developing nations may eat up some of China’s potential futures before some of the wealth in Chinas eastern seaboard trickles through to the central and western provinces.
    This would Leave China only one direction to go and that is to improve export and local product quality which although has improved is under pressure by economic and cultural (or lack of) influences.

    American Car? French Car? German Car? Korean Car? Japanese Car? Chinese Car?
    If money is not object what would be a last choice? answer this honestly….
    status symbols such as perfumes, fashion clothing and accessories is China the top hit if money is no object?

    Medical treatment?……… I wont say any more needless to say teh best TCM practitioners are not in China. (states england japan aus, new zealand)

    In summary:-
    China is a developing 3rd world country competing in the 1st world using brute force accumulated labour and foreign cash exploitation.

    Japan is a developed country and is part of the 1st world and trades on equal footing with the other economic superpowers.

    Let the Flames begin!

    cloaca banana ……. Cheers now would you like this in German? Russian? Japanese? Spanish? Romanian? just for you I would consider Mayan! but …. as the song goes ” Only you,,….”

    • markx

      “cloaca banana”

      I like that!

      Seems an apt name.

      • jeffli

        heee sometimes when type I get astigmatism, gheeeeeeeeee

  • Blotha Lonely

    I don’t like Japan, but loneliness…

  • abc000

    Dont these people realize part of the reason china is like is because of all the horrible shit japan did to them in WW2 and here they are praising them.

    • anon

      If by “these people” you’re referring to the Chinese people, yes, most of them most certainly do know. Yet they also know that the Japanese were beaten and despite a devastated country in the aftermath, the Japanese climbed back up to first-world status and enjoy an affluent first-world society while the Chinese mired themselves in ideological struggle and misguided attempts at realizing communist ideals, only making some headway after throwing those off and opening themselves up to global capitalism. They’re not blindly praising the Japanese. As many comments show, they remember what the Japanese did to them, but they are rightfully acknowledging what the Japanese have done well and are successful at. Recognizing and admiring the strengths and successes of others is a good thing. It leads to a desire to emulate and push oneself to get better. Everyone should be doing that.

      • asdf

        Devastating aftermath? oh u mean two cities got nuked? oooo so devastating. They’re doing well because they started early. End of discussion.

        • anon

          First, yes, that’s pretty devastating and I think it is disrespectful and insensitive to downplay that just as much as it is to do likewise with the Nanjing Massacre.

          Second, I’m referring more to a Japan that was overextended, exhausted, and yes, devastated both economically and socially by its own large-scale militarism and war.

          No one is disagreeing that Japan benefit from modernizing and developing early, that those advancements survived and carried over after the war (and people shouldn’t downplay how much the US helped Japan recover and helped build it up). The fact still remains that Japan’s economic and social development did benefit from its historical choices whereas China has lagged because of its historical choices (or events).

          There’s nothing wrong with Chinese people acknowledging where Japan is stronger than China, which is what they’re doing in this Weibo post.

        • bjornt

          Are you not familiar with the bombing campaigns of Japan by the US? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan
          I also recommend watching “The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara.” It gives you a good idea of the devastation by the US bombings. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8653788864462752804

          • moop

            things like facts are of no use to asdf.

          • terroir

            In terms of his user name, neither is the use of a right hand.

          • moop

            heh, get the hjkl outta here

          • terroir

            Yes, it’s the same reason why “Stewardesses” get no respect in the air or in cyberspace.

            Bunch of limp right-hand wristed blowhards. You tell them you don’t need the drill but they tell you about the safety procedures. Every. Single. Time.

    • Rick in China

      HAHAHAHAHA. Wait. You are implying Japanese invasion created modern China with all its problems? at least to some extent?

      Do you know what China was like *before* the invasion? Land of roses my friend. Roses made of cow shit, the same thing you’re spewing now.

      • bjornt

        Very true. Japan took the initiative to invade China because they knew how backwards and weak China was to begin with!

        • asdf

          so by your logic it would be ok for me to go beat someone up just because they’re already injured to begin with.

        • asdf

          and then i’ll look back and say.

          HAHAHAHA Wait you are implying i created all of your problems at least to some extent? do you know how fucked up you were before i beat you up? you were bloody all over.

          • asdf

            bjornt: very true asdf took the initiative to beat him up because he knew that guy was weak and helpless to begin with!

          • Rick in China

            Assbackwardness isn’t a reason to ‘beat someone up’. The point I made above had nothing to do with moral justification.

            The point was simply you can NOT say “China is like this because Japan invaded.” Your scenario is flawed, a more apt one would be a Benz running a red light smacking into a beaten up old Alto, then the Alto driver saying all his damages were caused by the Benz and his life is ruined forever, 60 years later, saying “I’m still busted and assbackwards because of that damned Benz!”. Get it?

          • asdf

            alto guy’s not complaining that the benz guy made him poor. he’s complaining about the repair costs only. And please don’t represent collateral damage by dents in a car those things aren’t comparable.

          • Rick in China

            You obviously missed the point. I’ll end this here.

  • andywattbulb

    Yes, the japanse were monsters at one point but after they found out that their great Hirohito was not as all powerfull and godlike as they believed, they finally snapped out of their brainwashed haze and did something progressive. Haters gonna hate.

  • Rod

    4 and 5 year olds hate Japanese people. Some kindergardeners in my classes say they want to kill Japanese people. It’s going to be at least a generation before China can get over this whole Japan thing.

    • anon

      It’s like one of the Chinese comments above, where the guy talks about how people learn things aren’t so black and white when growing up. When we were kids, we were taught and socialized to hate the Nazis and the Japanese, Russians and Communists. Things got better. We became more politically correct and time moved us away. The current generation already has less pervasive and irrational anti-Japanese sentiments than the generation before it.

      • Rick in China

        I was 4 or so when I learned from my grandfather that we shouldn’t hate people for reasons you’d think above. The story went something like this,

        Me: “Grandpa I hate Germans, they shot you in your leg and you can’t walk right.”
        Grandpa: “Rick, you shouldn’t hate Germans, I don’t – and I didn’t then.”
        Me: “But he shot you! I want to kill them!”
        Grandpa: “The guy who shot me was just doing his job as he best knew to do it, just like I was. He had a Mom and Dad, brothers and sisters, friends who loved him too, and he wasn’t there to hurt me – but to fight for what he was told to fight for.”

        I think the realization was that it’s not the people who should be hated, but the circumstances. Hopefully Chinese who are brought up in this kind of environment can be brought to this realization one day, and see that the Japanese in many cases are extremely wonderful and caring people – but the circumstances of that time.. politically and socially.. were different, and the leadership was indeed trying to do what they thought was ‘best’ for their own country, just as China would have done had it the power to do so. We can look back and say what was right or wrong, and there were some corrupt/evil people, but to imply there aren’t corrupt/evil people in powerful modern day decision-making positions in any country is ignorant – including this one. The internet is the likely salvation for getting the majority to ‘wake up’ and see that the shit they’re fed is indeed shit, not candy coated apples as ‘the system’ would have them believe.

        • anon

          Right, and you’re fortunate to have had such an enlightened grandfather. Unfortunately, a lot of people in this world don’t grow up with such wisdom. We see that in many of the Chinese comments and many of the comments posted here. We also see that many people have, again in many of the translated Chinese comments and many of the comments posted here, and that’s reassuring.

          I don’t think there are many people who imply there aren’t corrupt/evil people in powerful modern day decision-making positions. At least I hope not. Like you, I do hope that the internet, with its power to bring us closer together in terms of communications, will help more of us realize how unwise it is to hold onto certain prejudices we have picked up and developed along the way.

        • pada

          I guess there must be many philosophers as your Grandpa in your great country and presume Chinese could be better philosophers if they had nuked Japan twice.

          • Rick in China

            I’m not American. I’m Canadian. He was not a philosopher, just not a fucking idiot who holds grudges out of ignorance for reality and understands the word ‘motivation’ has serious implications on action. Keep holding yours, “pada”, see where it gets you.

          • pada

            Oh Rick is a Canadian, an American without a shotgun, reluctant to take collective responsibility for nuking Jap, twice, lol!
            But I do think your sweet Grandpa, fought along with gum chewing GI in Pacific or not, still deserved to be called as philosophers, not as a “fucking idiot” instead, who at least know how to tell a nice story to his Slim Jim obedient grandson!

          • Rick in China

            Canadians own more shotguns than Americans. “Pacific” was US. Europe was Canada.

            I’m going to stop feeding this fuckwit of a troll.

          • mr. wiener

            What the hell does “Slim Jim” mean? do you think Pada has been reading a dictionary of 1920’s idioms?

          • terroir

            In your parlance, 怕打, it appears you’ve been given the ol’ “23 skiddoo”.

        • Hongjian

          Cool grandfather. Good that he wasnt a she, and Chinese, and living under japanese occupation, or else, her vagina and womb would have been either kaputt, unable to give birth to your mother or father, or she would be long dead due to internal bleeding after they have stuck a Type 38 Bayonet into her hole, after raping her repeadedly.

          Fact remains, German soldiers, even on the Ostfront, were much more civilized than the ordinary Japanese Soldier, who came here to China to ‘cut logs’, ‘kill bugs’ and ‘herd animals’.

          White people are chivalrous to each other on the battlefields, as it is a military-cultural relic of the napoleonic times, where the cosmopolitan nobility, were serving different feudal lords and nations, and waged wars with each other for state-reason only and not personal or ethnic hate, or even racism. (of course, those same whites treated brown, black and yellow people like shit, nonwithstanding that).

          But for Japanese, who culturally saw themselves as pinnacle of asian culture and development, reinforced by their successes of the Meiji Restauration and in contrast to that, the failure of the Chinese Empire and Republic with their equivalent, built up a racial superiority complex, that was even stroger and more delusional than Hitler and Himmlers analogue. And this superiority complex still lives on today with the Japanese, as seen by their racially discriminative popular opinion regarding Chinese and especially Koreans.

          Your grandfather faced off with european, white, chivalrous soldiers of the Reich, while my grandmother (the chinese side) faced off with beasts, who used to test the sharpness of their swords on living, random peasants not too long ago, and saw the Chinese people as mere dirty insects. Up to this day.

          We have a proverb in Germany that fits to your comment.

          “Wenn man mal keine Ahnung hat, einfach mal die Fresse halten.”

          • moop

            so you are mixed raced chinese and white?

          • Hongjian

            yeah, and I guess you are an americunt.

          • moop

            that explains a lot coward

          • Brett Hunan

            HJ its too hypocritical of you to say Nazi Germany was “chivalrous” while Japan “beasts”. Symantics aside they did the exact same things. Considered themselves the perfect race and tried to rid the wolrd of the “insects”. Stop being so one-sided when you are clearly contradicting yourslef.

          • anon

            Brett, he’s making a point about how white people see other white people versus how white people see non-white people. I’m pretty sure he’s exaggerating in saying however much the Germans were enemies, the white man still inherently regards them more highly than he would regard a non-white.

            He’s then saying the Japanese did not see fellow Asian Chinese in the same way, that the Japanese saw non-Japanese with far more contempt than Germans had when they saw non-Germans (fellow whites or “Aryans”). He’s saying historical socialization led to more civility between Europeans/Americans whereas historical socialization in Asia was different and resulted in Japanese people having in many ways even stronger racial superiority issues that led to many of them committing even more brutal acts against the Chinese than what the Nazi Germans did to their enemies and victims.

            I’m sure a lot of Jews and European victims would take some issue with this but its not an off-the-wall academic idea. It’s been advanced before and survives in a lot of historical academic circles.

          • moop

            thank you anon, i don’t know how any of us could interpret other people’s thoughts and musings without you

          • anon

            You’re welcome, moop, people like you need it. There’s this thing about comment sections where people misunderstand or misinterpret each other and people chime in to offer their comments. Its a privilege you enjoy and one I enjoy as well.

          • moop

            i doubt anyone could misinterpret your sense of superiority and your endless displays of arrogance as you speak for others as if they lacked fingers or an internet connection.
            do you actually have opinions of your own to contribute? i’m sure chinasmack doesn’t need a passive-aggressive mediator or interpreter

          • anon

            And yet there are a few people on this site who try to explain my sense of superiority and endless displays of arrogance to others! They chime in on me, I chime in on them. You chime in on me, and I chime in on you. That’s how it works, kiddo.

            I contribute my opinions all the time. You just don’t like it when they contradict or embarrass yours. You play your role. I’ll play mine.

          • moop

            your opinions don’t embarrass mine, i’m not sure if we’ve ever disagreed on anything except for that i think you’re a passive-aggressive asshole and i wish you’d actually contribute something to the discourse from time to time. but instead you make passive-aggressive and snide remarks, or put words in other people’s mouths. or you try to play mediator. i don’t really want to start an argument with this, i just want to tell you i think you’re a passive-aggressive asshole and i wish you’d contribute something of substance once in a while.

          • anon

            I didn’t say my opinions embarrass your opinions, I said they embarrass you. That’s why you have such a strong negative feeling towards me.

            I’m fairly certain you disagree with me on plenty of things, which is why you think of me as an asshole. I know I disagree with many of your comment but I don’t recall responding to them because you’re not that interesting, at least you weren’t until now.

            You may not think I contribute to the discourse but I obviously think I do. I just don’t care to contribute by asking whether or not Hongjian is mixed-race or one-word flames and throwaway comments like “you’re dumb“. You seemed to appreciate my contribution of Kiera Knightly as a star who went naked on screen.

            What you don’t like is me disagreeing with some people and certain opinions and choosing to voice it. Hypocritically, however, you’re fine with yourself voicing disagreement and bringing some measure of intellectual knowledge to bear with others. I’m an “asshole” to you because you disagree with my opinion that I can disagree with others and argue with them. The funny thing is that you think I make snide remarks and put words in other people’s mouths, when that’s one of the things I often accuse others of. How ironic!

          • moop

            ugh, i knew this was a bad idea. your shortest posts are usually a page long. just accept that i think you are a duuurty-dick, and we can both hope for days when we can have another keira knightly moment. i’m not above joking around and being civil, and the fact that i think you’re an asshole won’t stop us from having our keira moments. boobs will always be our common ground ;)

          • anon

            I personally don’t think I have the crown for long comments around these parts but yes, I will argue my case thoroughly. Responding to you isn’t me not accepting that you don’t like me. Quite simply, if you come at me, I’m going to push back. Nothing strange about that. Till the next boob appreciation moment, moop.

          • Brett Hunan

            anon unless she was being witty, I read “fact remains…” and assumed she really does believe the German Nazi to be better (for lack of a more appropriate word) than the Japanese lumberjack.

            I hope for one reason or another I wasnt inferred to in that tiffy with moop and you werent “chiming in on” me.

          • anon

            I refuse to think of Hongjian as a she. I vaguely recall where that idea came from in these comments but I didn’t finish reading it and ever fiber of my being disbelieves it.

            Hongjian’s “fact remains” is that he thinks it is a fact that German soldiers were more civilized than Japanese soldiers in their treatment of the enemy. He explains why he thinks so (“military-cultural relic of the napoleonic times…”).

            The boring but true thing is that there were monsters who treated people monstrously in both Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan (and everywhere else of course). Hongjian’s fairly intellectual suggestion is whether perceptions of degrees in racial superiority influenced the degree of savagery and barbarism inflicted.

            No, I don’t recall thinking of you at all in the discussion with moop. If you’re guilty of any characterizations I made, that’s on you, but I didn’t have you in mind.

          • A GUY

            I like to pretend that he is a 7ft tall transvestite.

            Actually that was a joke, but it kinda turned me on.

            I think i’ll start doing that.

          • BARACK OBAMA

            I agree with you wholeheartly brother Hongjian. It seems that the westerners and Japshits here want us forget all the unforgivable atrocities committed by the Japanese during WW2, and for us to “forgive” them.Yeah right, put yourselves in our shoes and think of what it would be like to have all that shit done to your ancestors.

            Telling us to forgive the Japs, most of whom to this day feel no remorse or responsibility, nor express any remorse save the obvious superficial apologetic ceremonies is tantamount to telling Jewish decedents to not feel any resentment towards NEO-NAZIS for the Holocaust.


            That is what they want us to do. These westerners callous statements on this board is disgusting to me. Especially the ones that know exactly the history of the horrendous atrocities.

  • Rick in China

    This kinda comment makes me laugh: “but of course, on the precondition of not forgetting our national humiliation”

    The irony is, the humiliation is not the issues regarding war decades ago, but the fact the people cling to past problems while hoping for a great future. They are in fact humiliating themselves continually by not letting go.

    • simon

      it’s not easy to let go when your past has been humiliated. tell this to the rape victims, people who have lost loved ones to murder etc.

      especially when there hasn’t been an apology or any symbolic act of repentance or justice met.

      so much ignorance in your post.

      • moop

        yeah bro, the average 25 year old fen qing turd still have vivid memories of japanese occupation. in fact, most of the people living in china todays have vivid recollection of those days, right? Especially since the life expectancy in China is 73. shut up

        • simon

          just like american’s have forgotten pearl harbour? or the jews with WW2? and so on and on. go suck some cock, k thanks.

          • bjornt

            Actually I wouldn’t be surprised if the average young American doesn’t know what Pearl Harbor is.

            The difference between Americans and Chinese are that Americans don’t protest and vandalize Japanese things over something that happened 60+ years ago. It was generations ago. Look to the future. China should be thankful to the US for taming the Japanese into one of the most peaceful country on Earth. Heck you have Japanese restaurants and temples near Pearl Harbor. I would like to see that in Nanjing.

          • moop

            cry me a river pussy. americans have more or less forgotten about pearl harbor, maybe some baby boomers and vets think about it, but most people don’t, even those who still remember have not forgotten pearl harbor, but they have forgiven it. go fuck yourself doucher

          • Rick in China

            Lets talk more modern. Rwanda. If you go to Rwanda today (I have.) the Tutsi you’ll meet in your travels have NO, at least in general from my experiences, thoughts of aggression or hatred towards the Hutu, and look towards building a new peace as “Rwandans”. They aren’t even angry at the Belgians who created the mess. That is the sentiment of people who are forward looking. People here who harbor so much hatred towards Japanese are _backwards looking_ monkeys who will hold the country’s prosperity back.

          • asdf

            @bjornt maybe we should invite the Americans to tame china into the most peaceful country on earth. 汉奸….

            when china will stop hating japan for its war crimes you ask?
            when will america stop hating china for no reason?

          • pada

            Americans have every reason to hate China, for it’s own fault, exactly like a helpless and debt-ridden green-eye monster hating a poor boy next door whose only bought a new car and want to dine on same table.
            You know life is cruel for a whining psycho complex with no future. Let them still lecture for another decade, please.

          • asdf

            nvm you dont have to go on youtube. lots of fine examples here

          • anon

            bjornt, never been in Nanjing, have you? There are plenty of Japanese restaurants, cars, and branded products there. Nanjing may have been the site of a terrible atrocity that almost all Chinese hold some measure of resentment over thanks to plenty of patriotic history education, but its not remotely some sort of epicenter of anti-Japanese hate where anything Japanese is verboten, as you make it seem.

            China WAS thankful to the US. Most of those people went on to Taiwan, which for ideological purposes and reasons maintains a closer relationship and socializes a friendlier view of the US than what became Communist China. Not really hard to understand how that history affects the respective societal attitudes today.

            Working further up your comment, I think its important to recognize that Chinese people don’t really protest and vandalize Japanese things over something that happened 60+ years ago EITHER. What they do, in almost all cases, is protest and vandalize Japanese things over RECENT events that suggest the Japanese are insensitive to what happened 60+ years ago. Almost all of the incidences of mass protest and vandalizing were in directly incited by a modern incident, such as the Japanese government approving controversial revisionist textbooks (the fact that it since has only been used in a very few number of schools fails to address the anger over the government’s act of approving and thus seemingly endorsing it), Japanese government officials visiting Yasukuni, Japanese government officials publicly denying the Nanjing Massacre, or territorial issues like the Senkaku Islands (and the arrest of nationals in relation to it). For example:


            There aren’t massive Chinese protests and vandalizing simply because they suddenly one day out of the blue remembered WW2. It’s because something in the here and now brought the past back to the present.

            China, I agree, should stay more focused on moving towards the future. But just as it is misleading to suggest they don’t, it’s also misleading to mischaracterize when they obsess over the past.

        • BARACK OBAMA

          Dumbass moop. Pearl Harbor isn’t quite like the Japanese occupation of China is it? It’s like comparing apples to watermelons. If, say Mexico, invaded United States and the dirty Mexicans took out their machetes and hacked up 5 million of your innocent citizens, raped your women with bayonets, cut babies out of wombs and shiskabobed them on their swords could you honestly say that you would as easily forgive them? you shut up you piece of shit scumbag.

      • bjornt

        Chairman Mao seems to be pretty happy with Japan’s apology: http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/china/joint72.html

        Here’s a list of apologies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

        • quill

          so what is the japanese official postion on this matter, china and japan had good relationship back then before japanese government official started going to yakushuni, then we had the japanese prime minister said that japan should not have apologized, then you have the nagoya major.
          so i dont see any japanese official stance on this issue. the stance keep changing from time to time

          • bjornt

            Views aren’t set in stone. It changes. Same with the Chinese. Chiang and Mao were okay with having relations with Japan, and they even refused reparations. Who knows what the Chinese want. Who knows what the Japanese think.

            Hard to have an official Japanese stance when the head of government changes every few months or so.

          • Rick in China

            I’ll tell you what their stance SHOULD be:

            Get the fuck over it, stop crying over half-century old spilled milk, and grow up you fucking crybabies.

            It wont be, though, because there are hundreds of millions of crybabies who will victimize themselves to get some necessary pity — in an effort to bolster their otherwise shattered sense of self-worth.

          • asdf

            @Rick in China. yeah “Chinese people need to grow the fuck up”…. have you even seen the amount of anti Chinese sentiment in the US? Go on any youtube video about china and read the comments. Especially those involving natural disasters or accidents.
            Chinese troops have never landed on american soil and definitely never will yet the population thinks china’s some huge threat. Get the fuck over it. Whatever it is.

          • Rick in China


            I’m not claiming “USA” doesn’t have a large supply of ignorance in their own respect. There are a lot of really, really ignorant, racist, and plainly stupid loud spoken people anywhere. I would say that in my experiences here, it’s far more widespread and mainstream. Most of the stupidity in the Americas is in the “heartland”. China essentially indoctrinates hatred for Japanese through education and social means, but in the US it’s not something they ‘teach’, but moreso spread through fear between the minority of the population and fringe media.

            China’s threat isn’t a military threat. There are some politicians who may spout rhetoric as such but it’s mostly an economic one. China has done well economically for their own “1%”, for sure, and it will continue to do so as long as it maintains a workable political economy with its main trading partners. Socially..however..China has an enormous way to go to ‘catch up’ to most modern countries, without singling out particular shortcomings of any particular nation which is so often the defensive type of argument you’ll find here.

          • quill

            and that is where the problem lies, the japanese has no official stance on this issue, then who would take the apology seriously??
            the fact is chinese people is the victim,

            and rick nobody is asking for pity but what kind of pity?????
            japanese pity???? recognition is not pity, recognition closely related to relationship between japan china and even korea. i am talking about international relationship here which is not going to get better if there is no official stance, you know that in germany denying jewish holocaust is a crime and even in france denying turkish genocide of armenian is a crime and it was not french who got killed.

            and what the fuck do you mean by this??
            “to get some necessary pity — in an effort to bolster their otherwise shattered sense of self-worth”

          • mystery_man

            “Get the fuck over it, stop crying over half-century old spilled milk, and grow up you fucking crybabies.”

            Fuck you Rick. The US have little to no trouble getting over Pearl Harbor because it dropped two fucking nukes on Japan. What does China get? War crime denial, and people like you to tell us to get over it.

          • Rick in China

            “What does China get?” is exactly why you’re going to end in failure.

          • Hongjian

            I will tell you what their (japanese) stance SHOULD be:


            read it, americunt and japanese fag-shits.

          • BARACK OBAMA

            @RICK IN CHINA
            Why do we need to get over it? Maybe we don’t want to get over it. Fuck the Japanese and Fuck you Rick, and people like you.

  • coala banana

    fuck, what kind of fucked up comparison is that ?

    on one side you have a 1st world civilization, civilized society, social responsibility, respect, honor, hygiene, real achievements, high technology, great nature and culture…

    and on the other side a 3rd world country with uncivilized people, no responsibility (not even for themselves), disrespectfulness, blind nationalism, simple kindness, lacking hygiene, no true respect deserving own achievements, a backwards country and people, polluted environment and a culture where the secret is that there is no culture, and the little that once was, was wiped out by themselves…..

    have travelled most of the world, lived and worked in so many different countries and environments…japan together with germany are BY FAR THE 2 best countries and people this planet has ever seen….

    • jeffli

      Almost agree there, almost.
      The standard of living in Germany and Japan is “very not bad” compared with China when looking at the average.

      Every “old world country” will have a strong “nationalist” feeling, (blue blooded or pure blooded etc. etc.) Its the new world where you don’t see it so much (like New Zealand, Australia, Canada and to some extent America).

      Foreign Chinese living in the “New world” also are beginning to feel “fed up” with China.

      Yes theres 5000 years of culture and history blah blah (more likely 2300 years) but so has Europe, Americas. Even Indigenous people of Australia have a history of 40,000 years! so…… what?

      Times change, the world is changing and China is out of sync or had put itself in extreme situations before, Taiwan wasn’t that much better till the last 30 years either!

      The issues in China started at the beginning of the Ming dynasty just after Zheng He’s fleet returned with a wealth of information and discoveries, But what happened next…. the “closed door policy” and resistance to development is the key factor.

      The introduction of Vietnamese rice allowing two abundant crops per year helped cause a population boom, but there was no infrastructure to deal with this. China was an Imperial run agronomy with little formal economic industry.
      This became the beginning of China’s downfall that at one time during Song and Tang dynasties was nearly the most cultured and civilised place on the world! (so it is said.)
      Long before Japanese attrocities and invasions by foreign powers during the middle to end of the Qing dynasty, Chinas descent was already a committed path.

      It is regrettable and disgusting the holocaust in China, but many Japanese imperial soldiers were Chinese and Korean!

      How many people died by the hands of early Nationalists??? (recruitment marches where 15% of the initial recruits from the countryside survived to be trained and equipped as Nationalist soldiers from the 1920s to the 1940s

      We cannot blame all of China’s Historic tragedies on the “Eight foreign powers” many tragedies were self inflicted.

      Internal or external, its a pity such damage was inflicted

      The only thing I would compare and note differences is Japan’s use of Kanji and China’s use of Hanzi and enjoy the differences just like there are similarities and differences in language use from Italy (geographic origin of Latin) and Spain (Spanish a Latin influenced language)

      I would also note that the first big investor in China after 1976 was Japan and is still pouring in resources 40 years later. Maybe China can start thinking about saying thank you for the last twenty years of development to its “friends”.

    • Hongjian

      If the japs had honour, they wouldnt whitewash even their own nuclear disaster:


      let alone their atrocities against China and other asian nations. If they had honour, they would be like germany and build a large nanjing memorial in downtown tokyo. If the japanese had honour, they would outlaw nanjing-massacre denial.

      But they didnt. So they are just a polished turd, with the shiny polish impressing simple minds like you.

      Under the beautiful glossy clean skin, the Japs are just another culture of the sinosphere, who value the protection of their silly faces more than anything else.

      Anyway. What is beautiful, correct and clean, gives one more satisfaction to see it destroyed and shat on. What do the japs call it? Guro-porn?

      Japan is such a place. I wonder what some MIRV’ed 10 megaton thermonuclear devices would do to their clean and shiny cities and to their clean and honourable civilization. Or what a widespread biologic-chemical or germ attack would make Japan look like afterwards? Certainly wonderful, as true beauty deserves true disfigurement.

      • moop

        and if you had any honor you’d get your ass outta your ergonomic chair and join the PLA or some other military organization that can further your goal of the complete destruction of china’s enemies, but you won’t because you lack the balls and you lack the ability. if you were actually principled and truly had the convictions you espouse you would do something about. but you havent and you wont, because you’re a pussy.

        • Hongjian

          It’s alright. I have done my share of ‘ballsy’ things in my time in the military. I think I can do more harm against the western world, If I continue my studies, write my reports in official think-tanks and try to influence official policy by it. In short, I am completely satisfied with playing the agitator and hate-speech generator, to make my point and to see the world burn.

          • TheBallsyOne

            Hey Hongjiang by ballsy, do you mean playing with another man’s balls?

  • DR Jones

    The reason Japan has some of the politest people on Earth with good maners is because so many people live in a small space and have been taught how to deal with this throughout history.
    China’s population and area is much larger and people from different provinces have different ideas about what is right or wrong. There does seem to be a high percentage of stubborn people here who don’t want to change their ways though.
    As for the GDP argument, China’s economy (2nd largest) needs to share the wealth between 1.3 billion (and we all know a select band get most of it) while Japan’s economy (3rd largest) shares the wealth between 120 million (and less of a class system compared to China).

  • Rod

    So, because the Japanese were ‘worse’ that the Germans how long before the Chinese can move on? 100 years? 200 years? How long before history becomes history or should they hate the Japanese forever and ever until the end of time?

    • asdf

      So, because the chinese arn’t some dicksucking american air base how long before the americans can move on? 100 years 200 years? China did NOTHING to america. How long before NOTHING becomes NOTHING or should they hate the chinese forever and ever until the end of time?

    • quill

      perhaps when japan has official stance like germany, and japanese officials dont provoke the chinese to recall those bad days like the major of nagoya did

  • simon

    american’s only forgave the japanese because they were able to place 2 atomic bombs into them. That is closure right there.

    some of you are retards, apply what you said and use it in the context of the 9/11 bombings. Hey the Americans got bombed, why not be forward looking and get the fuck over it? Because they want closure and they want someone to pay for their actions, so they hunt Bin Laden and invade Afghanistan.

    • bjornt

      It’s not the US’s fault China is a weak country that can’t defeat Japan and thus has a victimhood mindset. When the US gets wronged, we go all out!

    • thekills

      Actually, there are plenty of Americans who haven’t forgiven Japan, specially how they attacked Pearl Harbor. This comes out specially when Japan defeats the US in some sport. For example, when a Japanese women’s soccer team defeated the American team, the blogosphere was filled with racist remarks making references to this.

      The reason why China couldn’t defend itself was because it was poor, didn’t have a modern army, and a strong leader with foresight. Unlike Japan, which realized very early on during colonial times that emulating the West was the way survive in the modern era and escape colonialism, China’s ruling royalty was still stuck with the mentality that China was the most powerful country in the world (which it was prior to the Renaissance). Thus you had concessions areas to Western powers, the Opium War, different national groups with varying ideologies fighting for power, etc. All these things led to the demise of China.

  • Brett Hunan

    Man, you fuckers all really love talking about Japan… I was waiting for Fauna to post a new article and you’re all still here in this party. What gives?

    • terroir

      All this talk over an insubstantial tweet/weib that has grown to be a self-important entity all on its own. What was it even about again?

      There is no current topic at hand here; it’s just some people trying to vent out their frustration over having certain issues that they are culturally imposed not to resolve.

      As there’s no talking about Bo(b) here, might as well conflagate a no-story into a pyre of ignorance to distract the issue.

      • anon

        Are you suggesting the Chinese conflagRated this weibo post into a pyre of ignorance to distract from BXL or chinaSMACK did?

        This “weib” was about Chinese people not blindly hating the Japanese and instead humbly acknowledging their own shortcomings and Japan’s strengths and successes. Unfortunately, a bunch of commenters here still decided to operate on the assumption that Chinese people always ignorantly hate the Japanese and vomit out their usual contempt.

        And terroir, you were better when you were contributing to the site with translated posts, instead of commenting with the rose-tinted glasses (albeit sometimes with a legit measure of wit) that everything in China can be accused of propaganda, conspiracy, or the evils of “face”.

        • Brett Hunan

          When have you cobtributed to this site? are you implying terroir must translate stories to “contribute”? I like his wit and most of the news that comes from China is just what you accused terroir of calling out- state-controlled propaganda. And if you bother to read what the netizens write, on most stories they call shenanigans too….. either fake stories to get quick internet fame or government baloney.

          Why dont you write some original posts instead of just “correcting” everyone else? Then you would be contributing to the site as well. Until then youre just an annoying know-it-all.

          • anon

            I didn’t imply anything. I literally said I personally think he was better when he was posting and not just commenting. Am I not allowed to value one form of his contribution over another?

            I think you’re misinterpreting my sentiments. I don’t disagree with many news stories being state-controlled propaganda. In fact, I’ve reminded others here of the Chinese netizen comments showing that they themselves are skeptical of a lot of official news.

            I simply feel terroir’s looks at a lot of stories through the same lenses, just as others do. I often disagree with the conspiratorial conclusions he draws, but this is the first time I’ve expressed that.

            That said, I wouldn’t call the overwhelming majority of posts on chinaSMACK to be fake stories to get quick fame or government baloney. My whole criticism of terroir is precisely this limited pool of interpretation, interpreting the significance or insignificance of every post with the same lenses and 2-3 possible conclusions.

            Finally, I’m sorry your ego feels threatened by people who might disagree with others and argue what they know, while you simultaneous go around annoying people and correcting others yourself. I think terroir tends to obsess over a few things in an overwhelming percentage of his comments, but I’ve thus far respected his wit, especially when it flies over the heads of the people he argues with and he’s left feeling frustrated because they didn’t get his humor (The 4chen joke was a bit weak though, terroir, I think your detractors got you on that one.)

          • Brett Hunan

            “what you know” could be wrong.

            Why would I feel threatened when you attack terroir? I just didnt agree with what you wrote. But you just had to add that final part in there for “lasting effect”, didnt you?

            And just for good measure he didnt imply either of the points you asked about in your first comment. Read it again and youll figure out what he meant

          • terroir

            @ah no, Gingerbrett

            As you both are talking about me and trying to figure me out, well let me help you:

            * my glasses are not rose-colored, but the frames are in the shape of a rose. They are oversized and colored in glitter, and are too impractical to be used when I drive the convertible with the top down. I got them at an Elton John garage sale; he was also trying to offload a lot of bedding, so I also got a truckload of liberal quilt handed down to me.

            * I haven’t been able to submit anything to Csmack lately, but have been floored by the number of people who say that they love my stories. From last year. That I wrote completely from an objective point of view. About the most sensational stories that I could find. That are predominately about sex or women not wearing much clothing. And sometimes child abuse.

            Yup. “A chinaSMACK joint by terroir” has been solely missing from this bleak existence lately. I’m sensing a comeback.

            * My opinion is my own. Of course it’s correct; it’s just up to you if you can accept it or not. I don’t walk around “obsessing ” over it as you call it since I accept myself and my opinions. In fact, I walk around with 70’s pimp theme music blaring from a loudspeaker carried by my manservant, Emmanuel.

            * I didn’t say cSMACK hyped this story. I’m saying the commenters here did. Over nothing. All it takes takes is anti-Japanese sentiment or a black person doing anything and it’s instant internets gold. Meanwhile, in official news the biggest story is “THERE IS NO STORY, BELIEVE NOT THE UNTRUTHS”. Like, in caps.

            * I can’t say I am able to predict the future, let alone know if other people will ever get my jokes about Anonymous. What am I, a 4Chan teller?

          • anon

            Brett, when you describe someone as an “annoying know-it-all”, it communicates several things. One, it communicates that you think someone is knowledgeable. Two, it communicates that you think they’re annoying with their knowledge. To feel annoyed with someone else’s knowledge suggests that you personally feel threatened by it. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t notice it and you wouldn’t have such an emotional response to it where you have to put it in such terms.

            You added your dig at me for “lasting effect” and I returned the favor. Let’s not pretend otherwise.

            My question was in response to his last remark. I wasn’t sure what he’s suggesting, so I asked. The assumption I made is that “Bo(b)” is referring to BXL. I could be wrong but its currently topical and he’s free to correct me. Last I checked, conflagate isn’t a word so I assumed he meant conflagrate. I assumed “no-story” is referring to this post, which does seem like a no-story relative to the bigger (esp. in our Western circles) story of BXL. I assumed “pyre of ignorance” is referring to the less than enlightened comments about anything or anyone in both the Chinese translated comments and chinaSMACK’s own comments section. The “pyre” also suggests he meant “conflagrate”. Finally, I assumed “distract the issue” is him implying this story is meant to distract from the BXL story.

            What I don’t know is if he’s suggesting some Chinese powers-that-be made this story a hot post on Weibo to distract from BXL or if chinaSMACK did. I’m leaning towards him suggesting the Chinese powers-that-be since my impression of him is that he’s smart enough to know chinaSMACK avoids the sensitive political stuff, but I’m just not sure. Either way, him suggesting it doesn’t match my read of it because as I said, this weibo post was popular before the BXL story broke and I don’t think there’s evidence to suggest this story is being used to distract from BXL. Him suggesting it does however remind me that he does often comment with what I think is a narrow range of observations, and I commented on that. I do think his wit and observations were better when he was contributing posts to the site than just being part of us lowly commentariat. He’s free to decline to do so for any number of reasons, just as I do. But I’m sure I’m free to encourage him.

          • anon

            terroir, I think objective is good, since that’s the style of chinaSMACK and one that I appreciate. I don’t think you should focus on scandalous stuff but go after what you’re interested in, as long as they’re actually popular or have some significant traction in China. We all know Fauna likes the naughty bits (okay, to be fair, she doesn’t always post just that kind of stuff), but you’d bring another set of eyes.

            That said, I do think you have rose-tinted glasses, and I like your humor about it, but that’s just my observation based upon a number of your comments. To me, you do tend to make a lot of comments about certain things, even making nicknames for some of them, like “proper Gandalf”.

            “Obsessing” is therefore my characterization and opinion. Just like we characterize Hongjian in certain ways or as I just characterized Capt. WED as having mental issues (but also well-meaning). It’s my read. I do respect you accepting yourself and I respect much more the grace (and stylistic wit) with which you handle what you may see as criticism or detractors.

            Thank you for answering my question. That’s one thing I didn’t consider and your explanation clarifies what your initial comment meant. I don’t think I’d think of the tons of comments here as any intentional hyping but I agree with you that certain topics get the commentariat here going.

            If “THERE IS NO STORY…” is referring to BXL, I think plenty of the commenters here already know about it and are probably commenting about it elsewhere. I am. There’s already a lot of coverage about it and given chinaSMACK’s position on such matters, I don’t care that they do a post that still fits their mission. If “THERE IS NO STORY…” refers to the current anti-rumor campaign in China, I think chinaSMACK covered that with plenty of translated comments about it. I don’t know what the commentariat here can do to hype or not-hype that.

            As for 4Chen, I just think they made some persuasive arguments about using a different character. I didn’t follow that thread to its end though. I got the joke you intended, but it was funny seeing others not immediately appreciating it and then you trying to explain. It happens.

          • terroir

            @anonymous human of the internets

            You seem hell bent on talking to me and wrangling an answer out of me, so here goes – I will tell you a most controversial opinion that I would say no one, no one at all here – either pro-China nor pro-non-Chinese topics will agree.

            In the case of China, I do not believe that objectivity is good. Because in the case of China, there is no such thing as objectivity – there’s no such thing. To create a unified whole, foreign elements are exaggerated to emphasize the difference of Chinese/non-Chinese and pure/impure. This means that even things like the proliferation of ignorance is a wanted goal if it preserves this dynamic that cohesively unifies a group for ulterior motives, like control and power.

            We definitely need objective information about China. We need hot info-babes like Melissa Chan steaming up the airwaves with objective information as close to the truth so that we can make up our own minds.

            But. In the case of China, minds are already made up. Any news story, good or bad, will be broadcasted to segmented audiences that have pre-conceived ideas about China. Because that’s what China needs – even if Person A argues with Person B in such a way as to forever influence Person B to be forever diametrically opposed to Person A, this will serve the purpose of the China divide – to divide opinion so as to define your opponent so as to better gain support for your own opinion.

            The more right your opponent is with his arguments against you, the better your own position is and the more “correct” you are (by proxy). Yeah, don’t worry, I didn’t understand “Inception” the first time I watched it either.

            So. chinaSMACK is a cool thing. I love chinaSMACK. chinaSMACK has created a community of savvy commenters who understand this literal “war of words” and ardently fight to maintain a sense of “truth” upon this platform which is presented as “objective”. This is what chinaSMACK does.

            But as novel and earth-shattering as this site is, it still plays into the morass of the yawning chasm into which ignorance builds strength. Things like this story have ellicited 300 comments over a non-story, just an issue. These people argue back and forth, but the more people talk, the less understanding goes on. No one escapes from here having learned anything – it just confirms their darkest fears.

            chinaSMACK can’t be everything, and shouldn’t be faulted for what it isn’t. I’m just saying that my stories fit this mold and standard of this site, but don’t deepen the understanding between two disparate cultures.

            So to you, expat of China who has learned lots about China and is an example that isn’t necessarily anon: you can learn about about China through this site and others – learn so much that you become a “China expert”. An “expert” to hate. Where every single piece of new information just serves to buttress your own well-established opinion. Because the dream of China requires it.

            Why be objective? There is an undercurrent of meaning, a subtext that gets picked up by a few people here, but this subtlety gets drowned out by ignorance and fear.

            I don’t know why you like my stories; maybe it’s a cool way to let me know that my sense of humor is less palpable than my objective “reporting” (internet stuffs isn’t necessarily ‘news’). But I could do a hundred stories and get a thousand comments of bigotry and hate – or do one story about a black person and get a thousand comments by itself.

            That was the one enjoyable thing about submitting a story to chinaSMACK – that you would have the knowledge beforehand of what everyone would be fighting about tomorrow.

            “If it wasn’t for me (and the story), what would you have to argue about?” That’s a bleak outlook upon how this platform works, but to submit a story that has an objective outlook is to ascribe to the position that “it is what it is” and “let the pieces fall as they may.”

            This may sound like a criticism of CS, but really it’s a criticism of China. And so that’s why the subtext of the message is more important than the message itself – objective or subjective. So: objectivity is not good.

            Not finished explaining, but I’ve gone far too long without a dick joke. Next, you’ll all be taking me seriously.

          • anon

            terroir, I’m going to talk to you if you talk to me. I’m not sure how that can be avoided.

            I like Melissa Chan as well, but I don’t believe in objectivity in journalism either. When I say objective, I meant I like that the posts on this site are mostly translations and not the blogger’s own commentary. I know the mere act of selecting comments means there is no true objectivity with a capital O, but I hope you undertstand what I meant when I said “objective” above.

            I think the way you describe China describes the whole world, and especially America.

            As for discussion not accomplishing anything in terms of enlightening or changing people, merely confirming their darkest fears, I agree with you but only to an extent. I think that’s true for a lot of people, but I still idealistically believe some people learn things from discourse. If those people benefit from it, then it was worth it. Communication is all we have to influence each other, and everything we do, verbal or nonverbal is a form of communication.

            Your “why be objective” argument is a form of nihilism and fatalism. It’s like “why be good when everyone else is bad?” which as you know is common in China as well (why not be corrupt, others are?).

            Because some people choose to.

            I do like your stories more than some (not all) of your comments. It was my way of encouraging you to contribute more posts to this site because you’ve shown the desire to do so before, whereas I don’t have the desire whatsoever. It may be hypocritical of me to ask you to do what I won’t do, and I accept that. You’re just more likely than I am, and you can’t fault me for trying to get you to provide me with more material to read for free.

          • terroir

            What? More talking? Are you just using me to practice your English?

            I’m not a nihlist, if for no other reason than I’m way too funny and that I don’t have enough black clothes to be emo. Also: I suck at putting on mascara.

            Again, I didn’t finish off my thought, this time is because I’ve just been writing way too many comments today and wanted to keep it short. The last thing I ever thought I’d do when I write a comment here is think someone would talk to me.

            What I mean is that I find the constraint of being “objective” as being a “reporter” on a “news blog” to be constraining. Because, sometimes people need more than just the “truth”. I haven’t quite explained that side of what most humans call “optimism”. Or at all.

            Anyways, in the beginning of my tenure with cS I would choose stories that would set the world afire with their news, but I would then settle into a rhythm of writing stories that have some tit in them so that I’d have something appealing to stare at for an hour as I format and translate. I like all my cS stories, but they weren’t particularily memorable; none of them made the “end of year” review even.

            It’s very nice for someone to request more stories from me, which included such hits that you may remember as:
            * the sex doll story
            * the Nazi cosplay story
            * the girl-gives-another-girl-a-lap-dance-for-scientific-purposes story
            * the wedding stripper story
            * the kids at a lingerie show story
            * the lingerie model sticks a cellphone in her cleavage story

            Fine. You’ve awaked the need in me to seek out more “objective truth”. I’ll see if I can’t make some time one of these days.

          • anon

            So you’re saying you like to write commentary more than just translating a popular post and the comments underneath it. That’s fine. I guess it doesn’t fit chinaSMACK’s style, but have you considered (or are you already) writing on any number of other China commentary blogs? I remember seeing you comment on Shanghaiist, but that’s about it off the top of my head.

            And just to be clear, there’s nothing wrong with you just being a snarky/witty commenter. Like I said, I just felt a lot of your comments had the same conclusions and I wanted to encourage you to blog more for the site (for my selfish benefit).

          • terroir

            Again: cS is great for what it is. You can’t knock butter for only just being a tasty treat and nothing more unless you’re Marlon Brando with a penchant for tangos.

            But cS editorial content is by far and large to keep content separate from editorial, so much to the fact that the validity to a story must be inferred here and not be explicitly expressed. As far as I know, I’m the one cS ex/contributor who makes his opinion explicitly and commonly known; maybe it’s because I got turned down for a position in the bomb defusal squad, who knows.

            I currently don’t write for any China news/commentary blog. There are many excellent ones who give insightful commentary, but to be arrogent I’ll say that the current model of Chinese websites doesn’t fit me; I’m not interested in expressing my well-thought out opinion only to be shouted down by a horde and have the use of my opinion serve to buttress their own, or to have a quaint “Look at me! My blog is my life in this exotic and wonderful land that is China?” Again, this is a critique more upon the “ideal of China” than on the internets.

            Thanks for your encouragement. As for any of my writing regarding China, I don’t try to be right – I try to be entertaining.

          • Brett Hunan

            So anon I guess we can move past sticks and stones and names. Yes, I do comment on many peoples posts. I dont know why but sometimes I guess the “reply” link just calls out to me. However my main concern lies not with you correcting anyone, but that I never really see you post original thoughts or opinions on the story. I suppose its something i expect from every long-timer here. In that regard, my concerns with your posts are comparable to your concerns with terroirs.

            I was just being impatient because I understood what he meant in the original posting. I thought you did too. You could be a totally different anon butt there was an ass with the same name who used to play dumb just to start flaming wars. Come to think of it he wore blue suglasses.

            Regardless maybe I will translate a story sometime soon and then pressure you into it as well. Cant let terroir have all the fun…

          • anon

            terroir, I understand your point about blogging not fitting you. As entertaining and whimsical as many of your comments are, I do think you’ve already failed to escape your opinion being used to buttress others. You’ve made quite a few comments that others vigorously nod their heads at, and not for the whimsy but for the suggestions you make and imply. Not to discourage you or anything. One thing I find interesting are the comments you direct at the “ideal of China” that I find being applicable to far more than that. Anyway, carry on with being entertaining, as I’m obviously not that sort and care more about telling it like it is and being fair about it.

            Brett, I really disagree with your belief that I don’t post original thoughts or opinions. I tend to see my comments as representing thoughts and opinions that are discouragingly underrepresented here. For example, I’m not whimsical and entertaining like terroir is but I don’t find his suggestion of propaganda and conspiracy in many of his comments to be particularly original on China blogs. Do you? Do you really think that’s original? I’ve made accusations of propaganda and political intrigue countless times here.

            Do you think negative stereotypes and racist comments are original? Do you think comments demonstrating alarming ignorance or common decency is original? Do you think jokes about Chinese penises and sexual performance original? I’ll go ahead and grant that bjont’s recent suggestion that Japanese people don’t complain about Chinese people was original, but only because its so completely divorced from any semblance of reality. Do you honestly think that out of all the comments here that mine are the most lacking in original thoughts and opinions?

            I have to say I don’t think so. I’m more certain that some of my thoughts and opinions (or actions) are disagreeable to you, but that’s par for the course. These comments are all about disagreeing with each other. I’m not interested in some circle-jerk of China expat angst and contempt. Would I be original if I was?

            I do offer opinions on the story, but I don’t think those comments of mine stick out to you. I’m sure my comments arguing with certain people stick out more and that’s how you define me. I get it, you think my comments are always picking on some people for certain reasons. Limited, like my impression of terroir’s comments. Fair enough. I just don’t think its fundamentally different from what we’re all doing here. Some people always make the same comments with the same opinions, and I’m sure I often pick on those people reliably. Fair enough.But the accusation of original thoughts and opinions is really flimsy.

            I don’t remember any anons here that “played dumb” using our handle. I know there are a few other Anons with a capital and profile photos but I don’t recall them starting flame wars playing dumb either.

            Did you really get terroir’s comment (the part that I initially asked about) the first time around? His explanation turned out to be neither of the possibilities I was considering. He ended up saying it was us, the commentariat here, who were distracting from the BXL news. That was unexpected but it makes sense in its own way.

          • Brett Hunan

            I dont bother replying to the types of posts you mention. Not only are they unoriginal, but childish and not worth my time to give notice. Only really ridiculous posts like that of hongjian and CB make me want to say something at that level.

            You are right enough, most of your posts dont stand out to me. You will forever be an anonymous anon with no distinct personality. At least until tomorrow when, after waking I will most likely look out for your posts and probably with a less critical eye.

            Until then continue doing what you do as I will do the same.

            oh and BTW I really did know what he was talking about. We talked about lack of a BXL article in the previous story. He didnt fool me this time.

          • anon

            I don’t reply to most of those, but I do ride the ass of those who I think are taking themselves too seriously (yes, I know that characterization can apply to me too). As much as people call me arrogant and self-righteous, the interesting thing is that I’m usually arguing with someone precisely because they said something I find ignorant and disagreeable in an intolerably arrogant and self-righteous way. When I get on their case, they then accuse me of being arrogant and self-righteous. So the lesson here is that no one thinks of themselves as arrogant and self-righteous…and generally hate it when others demonstrate that they are or can be.

            Okay, you knew what terroir meant. I don’t recall your conversation with him about it. Probably one of the comment threads I didn’t read. I don’t think my question in response was offensive though. It was an honest question. Of course, I do see how my suggestion that he always says the same things and encouragement that he post more could’ve rubbed you the wrong way and I hope the above discussion between us shows that I’m not really that critical of terroir. He, like Hongjian, are one of the more interesting personalities here.

      • Hongjian

        terroir is a retard. Literally.

        some laowai expat who couldnt get past his 2nd month obligatory China-hate period.

        Lots of other useless fucking english teachers got over it eventually and are now harmoniously drinking pu-erh tea and riding borderline-kaputt bicycles, while eating sewage-oil fried Xi’an-styled filled-pancakes, like other ordinary chinese now. But there are still some (literally) retarded english-goons, who cant get past that infamous week or so.

        • Brett Hunan

          Hehehe whatever HJ.

        • anon

          terroir is an ethnic Chinese, but with an overseas pedigree of course. I guess you can still call him “laowai” by the strict definition of the term, but that’s usually reserved for non-Chinese ethnicities.

          • terroir

            “Who is the terroir? And where does he get those fantastic quips?”

            You guys aren’t going to put a spotlight ontop of the police building, are you?

          • donscarletti

            “Who is the terroir? And where does he get those fantastic quips?”

            I always assumed you were a comment generating computer program driven by Markov chains.

          • terroir

            terroir is a self-aware, post-modern commenting spam computer housed under 3 meters of reinforced concrete located underneath the Pacific ocean that is programmed to rock your world as the pill that will get rid of all your cross-cultural East/West hang-ups.

            That’s right. This comment is coming to you live via my sub-terroir-ian secret hideout.

          • jeffli

            Laowai老外 ………….. Laonei 老內

            whats the difference?

          • donscarletti


            Something about the shape of their navel I think.

        • terroir

          So this is what it feels like to get noticed by the Chinese Oprah Winfrey of the chinaSMACK columns! It’s like waiting in line to get into heaven, but be admitted to Studio 57 instead!

          Chinese Oprah, can you incorporate my name into one of your rants? Like a mash-up of “My Favorite Things”, but directed against US imperialism and Chinese insecurities!

          Also, can you use that voice you use when you introduce movie stars on your show? “terr – RAAAAW – er – rrrrrrre!” Fabulous!

          • anon

            Really? You think Hongjian is like Oprah Winfrey? I would’ve thought a different US media personality…

          • terroir

            Hongjian is the biggest personality on here that is the closest thing these comments have next to a celebrity; well, at least until the comedy gold that is PUSAN PLAYA comes back. People make comments as to “I can’t wait til Hongjian writes something”; this akin to the ludicrous metaphysical situation in which people drive for hours to get to a place just so they can watch cars race for hours (Shanghai Indy, anyone).

            Therefore, Oprah. Also, I really want to hear Hongjian say my name in the Oprah voice.

          • moop

            man i miss pusan playa. way better than dog boner

          • anon

            Hongjian could very well be Pusan Playa playing the opposite role? Nah, Hongjian is several orders higher in intelligence. Pusan Playa either retired or is on China Hush. He was probably upset he didn’t win the popularity content and actually half of the commenters liked his archenemy who apparently also retired though I’ve seen him on koreaBANG recently. Unless his archenemy is Pusan Playa himself? That’d explain a few things to be honest.

            In terms of size of celebrity, I guess the Oprah Winfrey characterization works. I was thinking more of personality and ideology.

          • terroir

            @an one

            People deeply care about what Oprah thinks. She sways public opinion with what books she thinks are good and what meat not to eat.

            People are actively interested in what Hongjian has to say. As coming to this place is a train wreck in terms of human respect and manners, people want to know what outrageous thing she’ll say next to top herself, like a precocious child who manages to stay in the spotlight for an extended period of time (Drew, must you have married Tom Green? You broke his heart!)

            It’s akin to reality show stars and the levels of stupidness they endure, but that’s stupidness. I didn’t make that comparision but rather to Oprah because Hongjian is hate.

          • anon

            Lost me at the last sentence.

          • terroir

            @hand’s on

            Yes. That’s actually the reason you started this whole pony ride in the first place.

          • anon

            You lost me because I don’t see how “Hongjian is hate” explains you comparing him to Oprah instead of reality show stars and “stupidness”.

  • A gawd-dang Mongolian

    I noticed something else. Chinese seem to have a weird relationship with Japanese. The Chinese side of my family is proof of that. My grandfather boasts about how his village kept Japanese soldiers hiding in their bunker and how soldiers that came in ‘never left again’.

    At the same time, he keeps focusing on those ‘damn jap lifestyle’ and going on about how Chinese can learn a thing or two from it. Very odd behavior…

    • anon

      It isn’t odd. It suggests he’s actually quite normal and even admirably self-aware. He feels proud that he did his part when the Japanese attacked his homeland, and he feels there are aspects of modern Japanese society that are worth learning from. Don’t you think that’s normal and good?

  • europe guy

    Japan made from china!!!!japanese sb!

  • moop

    i know this doesn’t really have a place on this site, but has anyone seen “the reincarnation of a bat” video that louisville slugger and espn put out together? its pretty good in my opinion and there’s a good m83 song in the video too.

    here if you’re interested: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7775206

  • jiayi

    ‘But China’s niubi rate is 100%.’

    AHAHAHA. This guy. +1.

  • Trayvon

    Japanese behave in a civilized way. It will take China 1000 years to catch up.

    • notorious

      evil POS, why are you using that slain child’s name? His body isn’t even cold in the dirt and you mock him with a username. There’s a special place in hell for people like you.

      • donscarletti

        Because he’s trying to troll you. Ignore him and he’ll go away.

  • Dave

    So many jealous Chinese around – who pretend they dislike the Japanese because of World War 2 (when in fact WW2 Japanese are mostly dead, though some are around but very old).

    Chinese have a sense of entitlement – they feel they *deserve* to be the world’s top dog economically. Problem is, they aren’t so good, so instead they are a third world country. Unlike the ultra successful Japanese.

    Jealous jealous jealous petty Chinese. Maybe if you were harder working and more competent you’d be more like the Japanese.

    • anon

      Do you use the same line of thinking to put down black people?

      • notorious

        he can’t use that line of thinking because blacks don’t want what white people have. lol

        • anon

          I think you know what I’m talking about.


    The difference is Japan gave in the “superior” US capitalism ages ago. China is way behind. haha

  • typingfromwork

    Well there’s a lot that China can learn from Japan, no doubt about it. But the Chinese economy is way more dynamic than Japan’s at the moment. Decades of multinational domination has made Japan stagnant in terms of startups, and the economy has been pretty much on hold for the last two decades. It is increasingly difficult to be a young person in Japan today, what with the lack of opportunity and mounting costs meaning that they will not reach economic independence until much later in their lives.

    I don’t see what’s wrong with comparing oneself with others, especially when they are doing better. It’s always good to have new ideas to try and improve yourself. Otherwise you become like one of those fundie American flagwavers who thinks everything is hunkydory while their country is going to shit because they care more about gays in the military than fixing their economy, and that’s not good at all.

  • 我爱中国smack

    This is a great article. With China becoming stronger in the global village, it needs to assume more responsibility in terms of ethics. The most urgent issue is the need to address the Asian Holocaust victims, to make sure that justice is served, in terms of revealing the truth.

    The Asian Question
    The Asian Question


  • Jay

    I hate Japan but i love my Honda….ROGL.

  • Mao’s Dong

    China is the world’s factory – a shit-hole.

    What’s new… pussy cat? Owwww oo ow owwwww…!

  • Capt. WED

    Fucking Chinese rednecks and nationalists LOL. But wait until you see American rednecks and nationalistcs. Or even western ones, I hear some of them are crazy enough to kill 80 people in cold blood…

    Chinese talk a big talk, but when it comes to balls out dropping some real bombs on people they haven’t done it in 30 years. LOL. Pussies.

    Fuck you twit.

  • Cleo

    The Japanese are seeking right of abode in the Pearl River Delta where the Southern Chinese are considered too self centered and mercenary to resist such a Hakka.

    Are the Cantonese so despised by fellow Chinese for being Blood Elves or for being fortunate enough to have had the earliest opportunity at immigration so that now we are being given up totally – our food, our language and probably our ancestral region is going to be co-opted by the Japanese because Beijing doesn’t care about us:

    Japanese are even now repackaging Cantonese phrases as Japanese IMPROVING the Chinese language:


  • 中国中国中国

    Chinese are too childish. It is the lowest level immediately break things, and teachers! I am breaking in front of students Japanese things. You’ve got what you want to do? Stupid country that is making copy products! Do not you can only imitate? Just to capitalize on the turmoil in the Senkaku just a guy who liked such as hate Japan! Skull okay guys I have just piggybacked not know anything? Chinese living in Japan can go country!

  • 中国中国

    做中國污濁的空氣流! “M骯髒的空氣它惱人你們!中國的支付贍養費。

  • Mark

    so even Japanese hates about his/her noble homeland? how about my country that sparsed by our own political way (Philippines) but we still to love it cuz of our independency and we are no longer to up colony from Spaniards, (i’m not usual good in english but i confine to only know basic) :-) straight on the word disparity was already common here in the Philippines (especially politics), we philippines was more than 100 of independency but we still developing countries according to statistics, so my country becomes less admirable to live rather than Japan (even my home-people have good hospitality values) but our homeland’s crime rate was literally higher, so i need more careful about cuz one day it might be the danger come (especially the calamity (so sorry about my) i read that problem that’s a shallow problem :-)

  • Metrx Qin

    China is developing country but Japan developed.You should not make a compare between them.