Taiwan National Flag Removed in London Prior to Olympics

The Taiwanese flag missing in Piccadilly Circus for the London Olympics after it was torn down.

To welcome the 2012 London Olympics, the Regent Street Association that represents hundreds of local London merchants and businesses recently hung up the national flags of the world’s countries throughout the streets of London. Placed alphabetically, Taiwan’s national flag had been hung up near Piccadilly Circus. Just several days later, the Taiwanese flag had suddenly disappeared.

Taiwan's national flag was removed near Piccadilly Circus prior to the 2012 Olympic Games.

The following photo and attached comments by a popular Taiwanese internet personality called ‘Taiwan Sometimes‘ (a transliteration of 三太子, a Taiwanese god also known as Nezha whose likeness he wears) had over 40,000 likes, 20,000 shares, and 2000 comments within 24 hours on Facebook…

From Facebook:

The national flag that was originally hung here had been torn down, and I’ve come to hang it back up!!!

Its okay if others won’t let us hang it, we Taiwan people will come hang it ourselves!!!

Taiwanese internet personality Taiwan Sometimes hangs the Taiwan national flag back up at Piccadilly Circus for the London Olympics.

It was suspected that outside pressure had prompted the flag’s removal and after an official representative of the Taiwan government approached the association, the association said it would hang up the Chinese Taipei Olympic flag.

Comments on Facebook :

林映慈 :

The incompetent Ma Government is not willing to stand up, so the Taiwanese shall fly the national flag for the entire world themselves.

鄭明杰:

Can we make ‘Sometimes’ President?

Wei Ren Lin:

Officials are weak… the government is powerless… Every time the world sees our flag its because of these people’s silent efforts or some unknown heroes.

Amy Liang:

Ma Ying-jeou is not as good as San Tai Zi.

Tang Hung-Chih:

I was born in the Republic of China, the Republic of China is my home!!! Even if the rulers change, I will still be a citizen of the Republic of China.

莊蔚:

Taiwan jiayou^^ I am Taiwanese, not a mainlander~ The passport I hold is green~ not red.

林羽瑄:

According to history… Taiwan and mainland China has been separate since the Qing Dynasty!! Republic of China jiayou!!! Taiwan jiayou!!

趙耕賢:

The same ethnic group can establish two or more countries. Aren’t Germany and Austria both Germanic? Middle Eastern countries are almost all Arabic. Both sides of the Taiwan strait are countries founded by the Han, so just what reason is there for not recognizing this? Pressuring Taiwan only makes it obvious how petty the CCP is.

Irene Chen:

Thanks Sometimes for looking after Taiwan~ Jiayou!

范育瑋:

Why can I only press ‘like’ once!!!

BBárryy CChángg:

I posted this London Olympics national flag incident on a German friend’s wall. Afterwards he immediately shared it saying: Don’t let Taiwan disappear.

簡詳芸:

Say it loudly: I am Taiwanese!!!

陳亭安:

Every time I hear ‘Chinese Taipei’ I burn with rage! Its ‘Taiwan’!!!

The Taiwan national flag hanging at London's Piccadilly Circus.

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  • ddd

    good for them
    To hell with the CCP.

    • Greg (the smart one)

      +10000000000000

  • Someone said this quote to me a while ago and I think it makes perfect sense in this situation,

    “Take your laptop to Taiwan, if Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, WordPress, Blogger, and all the other blocked sites in China work… Taiwan is not a part of China.”

    • terroir

      Or, simply: Taiwan is the part of China that is part of the the rest of the world, and works.

    • Ryo

      All those sites work in Hong Kong too…

      • Hong Kong is still not actually China…

        • donscarletti

          It’s as much of China as it was part of Britain 15 years ago.

          Probably less, since the British were limited in their interference purely by convenience and tradition, whereas now it is codified in the basic law.

          • Jay Riter

            @ donscarletti

            British people didn’t need a visa to enter Hong Kong when it was under their control.

            Chinese people need a visa to visit Hong Kong now that it’s under Beijing’s control.

            Seems more like it’s two separate countries to me.

          • firebert5

            Hong Kong is still listed under international flights in Chinese airports.

          • donscarletti

            Was it any different at Heathrow before the handover?

          • jin

            jay riter, that was a dumb post, if the mainlanders dont need a visa to enter hongkong, what will happen? all those peasants will move to hongkong………. think!!! think!!!

          • jin

            and im allowed to travel to so many countries without a visa, does those countries belong to the netherlands?

          • donscarletti

            @Jay Riter:
            After signing the Treaty of Paris in 1783, British people still don’t need a visa to enter the United States. So much for independence huh? And they don’t need one for HK now either

            @Jin:
            Maybe Hong Kong is not Dutch, but Formosa certainly does belong to the Netherlands! Ming filibusterer Zheng Chenggong stole it from them to use as a base for raids.

          • Lakeman

            I wouldn’t put it the way you have put it, that Zheng stole the place from the dutch, but I suppose you have your pov. Taiwan did belong to dutch for a while, but only partially, not the entire island. There were definitely aborigines and small number of han immigrants there in Taiwan before the dutch, and in addition, for a long time no one really managed to control the entire island, which included the dutch and zheng and spanish, the latter was also in Taiwan briefly, around that time, in the 1600-1700s. i will acknowledge that the dutch managed to establish the 1st systematic gov’t in Taiwan though. davd c’s post toward the end of the page gives a overview of Taiwan’s history since the 16-17 centuries. one should look at it.

          • Lakeman

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tungning
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Middag

            Here are some maps, you guys can see that no one really manage to control the entire Taiwan before the Qing, not westerners, not chinese, not local aborigines, or any other foreigners, basically no one. they all manage to carve out only a small piece of Taiwan during their rule. The Qing might be the first gov’t to have full control over the entire island. But again, I wont use the word “stole” in Zheng’s take over of Taiwan back in the 1600’s.

          • Lakeman

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Taiwan
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Formosa
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Qing_Dynasty_rule

            Anyway, here are more information. Wikipedia is not the greatest source, but it is good enough. though the Chinese wiki version on Taiwan’s history seems to be very good. I encourage people to find out more about Taiwan. And yes, please also read my responses to davd c.’s thread at the bottom of the page. It has more info. on this matter, such as who arrived at Taiwan first after the local aborigines. I would still go with han chinese, but it is very complicated, and I have revised some of my positions in the previous posts on some of the issues I wrote about earlier. So take a look at my responses to davd c’s post at the bottom of the thread. Thanks.

          • tai wai

            Anyway, here are more information.

            Look at you, with all your facts and sources! Too cute!

            Don’t you know where you are? This website is for biased opinions and insults only.

          • Lakeman

            tai wai,

            I will take your comment as a compliment, I am simply trying to provide some information here. I know what this website is, but I think providing some useful information would be a good thing, given how much people seem to be “learning” on the web these days. Anyway, I should also say that maybe I should refer to wikipedia as an useful source rather than a good source instead. Even in this case, the Chinese version of the wiki on Taiwan is useful, but maybe not the best source. The English wiki version on Taiwan is okay and useful, but not great either.

            Hey, if we can provide some useful info online, why not? I really wish there are better sources out there than some of the things we found online.

          • tai wai

            I will take your comment as a compliment

            As it was intended.

          • Lakeman

            tai wai,

            Thanks. Regarding sources, maybe I should have referred people to even better ones. But wiki seems to work fine as is. If most people here can read chinese, that would be even better, as the chinese wiki can be useful on stuff related to china, eg. the senkaku/diaoyu island incident.

    • rollin wit 9’s

      1st time i tried to post there was an error hmm??

      That is a good point. I usually make a similar argument for hong kong. Different money, different cell phone numbers, passport needed to cross and re-enter. Mainlanders even need ‘permission’ to get into HK. This is a good fact though about the pc’s. Lets not forget about Bloomberg being blocked also. Fckn a-wipes.

  • Andao

    Man, coupled with showing the South Korean flag during North Korea’s soccer match, looks like London’s turning out to be one international crisis after the other.

    As much as I hope for the ROC navy to invade Xiamen as soon as possible, how did the organizers not know about the whole Chinese Taipei thing with the accompanying flag? Amateurs.

    • Greg (the smart one)

      Take your wu mao and fuck off back to the Middle Shmimdom. Cunt.

      Taiwan/ROC is a seperate country from your filthy polluted mouth breathing ridden armpit of a “country”

      • mr. wiener

        ummm Greg….I think he was actually supporting Taiwan.
        Makes me wonder how “unsmart” the other Greg must be.
        Also turn the anger meter down from “11” please.

      • Carson

        Hey Greg, save some for tomorrow, you don’t want to run out of steam before the weekend.

      • Andao

        “As much as I hope for the ROC navy to invade Xiamen as soon as possible”

        Reading is fun, Greg!

        • mr. wiener

          ..but it doesn’t compare with the undiluted joy of flaming someone from the safety and convenience of your own computer apparently.
          I wonder if Greg is in a more sociable mood today.
          Here’s a hint Greg, smart people apologise when they are wrong.

      • Chunghwa

        lol this guy.

        青天白日滿地紅,三民主義統一中國。

        中華民國萬萬歲!毋忘在莒!

      • jin

        hate has taken over you, you hate everything, look at the mirror and hate your unsmart face. greg

        • mr. wiener

          Might be a mirror image of yourself jin. You are not a bad fella, but your postings have been a bit short sharp and sour these days. I recon it’s the influence of that nasty large “J” guy.
          Not having too much of a dig. I’d be obliged if you tell me if I’m being too douchey in the future, cool?

  • terroir

    I’m pretty sure Nezha isn’t just a Taiwanese god, but with six arms and two heads (not pictured) he is a one of the pantheon of “badass” gods.

  • Jin

    Taiwan does not need their own flag..they belong to China and ruled under the Chinese flag.

    • I agree, China belongs to the Republic of China, so the island of Taiwan does not need it’s own flag but rather all of what is traditionally known as “China” belongs under the sun flag itself! Glad we could agree on something finally! Here’s to a new future of agreement and understanding, Jin #2.

      • GodsHammer

        You are correct Jin…kind of. It IS all one country…except that the rebel, backstabbing CCP have stolen the mainland and refuse to return it to it’s rightful rulers!!! Ahahaha… in this case the egg definitely came before the chicken.

        • Hey, it’s all that “historical ownership” thing that the CCP likes to use to say they own pretty much everything. Kind of backfires on them when it comes to Taiwan.

          • asdf

            “historical ownership” justifications are a load of bullshit from any country. The only logical justification China needs is “we have the military power to acquire territory therefore it’s ours”. But since 90% of the world’s population don’t fucking think at all, governments need to spoonfeed lame excuses for their idiotic citizens to digest. Now these sheeple are just shitting what they ate all over the comment section.

          • Yes, I know.

    • moop

      of course they do. how else will we know which is the good china?

      • pada

        Why Taiwanese still “need their own flag”, while a Taiwanese patriotic arrived at Diaoyu Islands 3 weeks ago, after confronted and intercepted many times by Jap coast guard, only to show a single 5-star PRC flag? To piss off the democraticly elected Chen Shuibian who got a pair of blood-shot balls last week because no jerk-off is possible under prison cameras?

        Moop I love to share the vid with you and then you can boast in Sanlitun bars you know everything about China, ;)

        http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012/07/06/taiwan-man-flubs-disputed-island-protest-with-flag-mix-up/3/detail_2012_07/06/15828717_0.shtml

        http://news.ifeng.com/mainland/special/diaoyudaozhengduan/content-3/detail_2012_07/06/15828717_0.shtml

        • moop

          the article you linked to mentions this was a “flub”. so you’re proud that this guy made a mistake and pulled out the wrong flag? trolling FAIL

          • pada

            moop we say— only an aching foot in a tight shoe knows the pain, lol!
            talking about shoes, lets pray chinese made shoes would not appear under Ralph Lauren uniforms tonight, with whole world watching, to further piss you “patriotic” (act) folks off, lol!

          • Chom

            moop, to be honest your the one looking like a troll. How could someone just “pull out the wrong flag” They had the flag prepared on a post,and planned to plant it in the island. It was no mistake.

            He did say that they forgot to bring the Taiwan flag,:
            “We left in a hurry and forgot to bring the flag of Taiwan, so we displayed the five-star flag instead.”

            however if you read about his organisation, they aren’t anti-CCP or anti-mainland:

            “Mr. Huang called for cooperation between Taiwan and China to reclaim the Diaoyu Islands, known by Japan as the Senkaku Islands.”

            http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012/07/06/taiwan-man-flubs-disputed-island-protest-with-flag-mix-up/?mod=WSJBlog

          • mr. wiener

            “He did say that they forgot to bring the Taiwan flag,:
            “We left in a hurry and forgot to bring the flag of Taiwan, so we displayed the five-star flag instead.”
            Well if you believe that I do have this old milk powder I’ve been storing up for sale, maybe you’d like to buy at a significant discount of course.

        • moop

          i watched that video. he threw the prc flag into the water. you must be brimming with pride. trolling FAIL

          • Chom

            moop, are you implying here that he threw it into the water as a protest against China or something?

            As I mentioned the flag was on a post and they planned to plant it on the island. Presumably when the Japanese ships blocked them he threw the flag in the water as a protest and to leave their mark. Doesn’t that seem a more reasonable explanation rather that the childish fantasies?

          • mr. wiener

            As a propoganda exercise throwing the flag in the water still looks fairy naff.

        • Haha all aboard the Fail Boat with it’s salty sea captain Pada.

          • pada

            As you are obviously moop’s monika sucking each other, I’ll show you another link to enlighten you why taiwan doesnt need a flag, or to help you old hag get bent over, haha!

            http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjcxMzQ1NTAw.html

          • mr. wiener

            Relevance?

          • ::yawn::
            A few days ago, near Hualien, I had the joy of seeing a bunch of US-made F-18 Hornets landing. They flew right over me at tree-top level. It was incredible. It was pretty awesome seeing those US-made fighter jets up close, sold to the sovereign nation of Taiwan, without a damned thing done by the CCP about the US selling to a “rogue province”. Because either they’re incredibly inept or the CCP knows that Taiwan doesn’t belong to them. They just tell you it does because they know you’re too much of a dumbass to know bullshit from truth. Therefore you’ll believe anything they say and get your laced little Hello Kitty panties into a wad over it if anyone tells you differently. Now go cry about it some more.

          • Sorry, F16s. They were F16s. Amazing aircraft.

          • pada

            whiskersthecat
            they are neither f18 nor f16. they are just f86 in taiwanes hands, cheaper for them to crash two each years.
            you dont need to ask guomindang how pla chased them there though thier yank stepdad armed them up to ass, whats the use of 3 dozens lousy shit planes if their guided missiles always hit u-turn and 6% of its population are dumping democracy and living in mainland, willingly, under commie rule, fool?
            but anyway, i like yanks uniforms. only watching them this morning first time and think them fit better now on chen shuibian, lol

          • Alecks

            F16s are for show more than real defense. If the US was not being the “Police of the Democratic World”, Taiwan would stand no chance against China in a military conflict. Just take a look at the map, and see how many sides Taiwan can be surrounded by a China led invasion.

            But war is bad for business, and that’s what China is after right now…money. China’s best plan to take back Taiwan, is through economics and world status, not politics or war.

          • mr. wiener

            Lets call it a courtship rather than a date rape hmm?

          • donscarletti

            Isn’t the F-16 Fighting Falcon like this little single engine trainer pretending to be a fighter aircraft that the US will sell to anyone for a couple of hundred bucks?

          • mr. wiener

            That’s the one. Still even though The Taiwanese can’t win a shooting war with China having F-16,[ and mirage 2000’s I believe]
            combined with good radar cover, comparable missiles and a home turf advantage would make life uncomfortable to say the least for a PLAN invasion fleet.

          • Castro

            Scarletti, you sound like a fan of the Tomcat… well, as I know u know, the Falcon is also one smoking hot piece of avionic machinery. Even though I’m a fan of the B2 Spirit myself,, with a lot of nostalgic feelings for the Blackbird. Oh well, there are so many excellent aircraft thanks to US DOD, NASA, Boeing, Raytheon, McDonnell Douglas, etc.
            and let’s not forget this little game changer…

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)

          • Tengu

            @ Pada. We already sold Taiwan F16 A/B variants (A – Single Cockpit, B – Double Cockpit) a while ago, They’re looking to upgrade the F16’s and want a few F35’s .

            No way you can mistake an F16 silhouette for an F86. Different animals

            Whiskers saw an F16, You’re just buying into the bullshit that we only sold Taiwan F86s so you don’t shit your pants.

            How’s that used Aircraft Carrier program coming along and the awesome DF-21D which is in a lot of parades, but not has not been proven fully operational.

          • Twind

            The selling of arms is based on the TRA. Certainly the CCP has protested it much but to no avail. As for the soveregnty issue, the US position can be murky when it comes to Taiwan and China. I am not sure CCP really feel Taiwan does not belong to them, it’s just they have to deal with the US and also the voice of the Taiwanese people who do not want to be ruled by the CCP.

    • Jin

      If that’s your rational reasoning then the USD should be flying the British flag in the games.
      The original owner of Taiwan is actually the Aboriginal Taiwan and the first Chinese owner are the Han then Qing. Hong Kong and Macau should also be under the Chinese flag.

      • Are you replying to yourself or what?
        The Dutch showed up first anyway.
        Why should the US Dollar change flags for the game? That makes no sense.

        • Jin

          stop sniffing my butt on here ..your like a bad black smell that just wont go away..seriously stop your stalking.

          • moop

            stop your trolling racist

          • What’s wrong, Jin? Are you upset? You seem upset to me.

        • John

          I think the situation is a bit more complicated than what both of you said.

          • Lakeman

            you’re right. my other post from above from another thread has talk about this, the same is true with davd c’s post at the bottom of the page.

          • Lakeman

            I thought I should just reproduce my earlier post here, it is easier this way. So here it is

            Taiwan did belong to dutch for a while, but only partially, not the entire island. There were definitely aborigines and small number of han immigrants there in Taiwan before the dutch, and in addition, for a long time no one really managed to control the entire island, which included the dutch and the chinese and spanish, the latter was also in Taiwan briefly, around that time, in the 1600-1700s. i will acknowledge that the dutch managed to establish the 1st systematic gov’t in Taiwan though. davd c’s post toward the end of the page gives a overview of Taiwan’s history since the 16-17 centuries. one should look at it.

          • Lakeman

            producing it here too;

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tungning
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Middag

            Here are some maps, you guys can see that no one really manage to control the entire Taiwan before the Qing, not westerners, not chinese, not local aborigines, or any other foreigners, basically no one. they all manage to carve out only a small piece of Taiwan during their rule. The Qing might be the first gov’t to have full control over the entire island. Again there were local aborigines and a small number of han population in Taiwan already, before the dutch showed up. So technically, the dutch was not the first one there. But if you’re talking about a systematic gov’t, then yes, i think dutch was the first systematic gov’t in Taiwan.

          • Lakeman

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Taiwan
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Formosa
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Qing_Dynasty_rule

            Anyway, here are more information. Wikipedia is not the greatest source, but it is useful. though the Chinese wiki version on Taiwan’s history seems to be useful as well, maybe better than the English one. I encourage people to find out more about Taiwan. And yes, please also read my responses to davd c.’s thread at the bottom of the page. It has more info. on this matter, such as who arrived at Taiwan first after the local aborigines. I would still go with han chinese, but it is very complicated, and I have revised some of my positions in the previous posts on some of the issues I wrote about earlier. So take a look at my responses to davd c’s post at the bottom of the thread. Thanks.

            P.S. For one of my posts below this one, just by a couple of posts, which is my 3rd post below this post. I now need to revise that post just by a little bit. This is all I need to do: instead of what was written there: 2 long posts with info., it’s now 3 longs with good info.

          • Lakeman

            “3 long posts with good info.”

          • Lakeman

            “which is my 3rd post below this post” should be “which is my 5th post below this post”. And “3 long posts with good info”
            should be “3 somewhat long posts with useful info.”

      • donscarletti

        Give Formosa back to the Dutch you imperialist!

        • John

          Huh? That’s odd….

          • BigJ

            hahaha

          • Lakeman

            see my post above, in another thread, and davd c’s post below on this.

          • Lakeman

            davd c’s post at the end of the page.

          • Lakeman

            my 2 long posts with info. are just a couple post above this one now, it’s more convenient to read, don’t have to scroll up. davd c’s post is still at the bottom of this page. and i dont know, I dont think Zheng Chenggong’s forces that occupied Taiwan can be called “imperialists” nor the chinese who moved to Taiwan later or the local aborigines there in the 1st place.

    • Young Man

      China belongs to Mongolia

      • Tengu

        “Temujin for Prime Minister!”

    • donscarletti

      You mean the one with the white sun on it? I think claiming it is still the flag of China is somewhat inflammatory, it has been 63 years now.

    • El Puma R.

      Jin you’re just repeating what someone else told you. You brainwashed fuck, Taiwan belongs to China but it doesn’t belong to CCP’s China. Why? because they’re the only ones who have publicly admitted they don’t want to be part of a government full of corrupt thieves and liars.

      Use your fucking head instead of just repeating what other people tells you.

  • simon

    one flag to rule them all…

  • Jeff

    Who care? I mean who the hell really fucking cares…

    • dur

      well, taiwanese people for one.

    • ddd

      also people who hate the PRC(ie me)

      • sm

        Would you mind giving some reasons?

        • Arthur

          Lack of independent thought that extends beyond your ethnicity would be one. Ancient culture with an ancient mindset that doesn’t belong in the modern world. Give China to Taiwan.

          • BigCAD

            China has ancient history…I thought they went back to year zero during the cultural revolution, much like their bussom buddy Brother Number One Pol Pot. What we seen now is counter cultural fairy tale stuff. Ask a mainlanders to explain these 5000 years and they would hard pressed to tell you what happened.

      • Chom

        ddd, You speak as though nations are individual humans. Every nation contains millions of people, who do different things and have different opinions. So why do you hate China?

        • jin

          well in this care china got 1.4 billion people and not millions. and he hate because hes a racist.

    • trouble

      excuse me…here’s one Taiwanese and I really fucking cares

      • Chunghwa

        I dedicate a song to you. Here’s “Taiwan Is Good”, performed by Teresa Teng in 1994. For more information, look up the title on Wikipedia.

        台灣好,台灣好,台灣真是復興島!
        愛國英雄英勇志士,都投到她的懷抱。
        我們受溫暖的和風,我們聽雄壯的海濤,
        我們愛國的情緒,比那阿里山高,阿里山高!
        我們忘不了大陸上的同胞,
        在死亡線上掙扎,在集中營裡苦惱。
        他們在求救,他們在哀嚎,
        你聽他們在求救,他們在哀嚎求救哀嚎!
        我們的血湧如潮,我們的心在狂跳,
        槍在肩刀出鞘,破敵城斬群妖。
        我們的兄弟姊妹,我們的父老,
        我們快要打回大陸來了,回來了快要回來了!

    • asdf

      People who are easily brainwashed. (ie above)
      Intelligent people take pride in their ethnicity, history, and culture.
      Only the stupid obsess over their ruling political party.

      • sm

        good point.

      • Arthur

        I hope this is sarcasm. If so, I missed it. Is China really a nation of Monkeys? Looking at the comments on this site scares the hell out of me. You have that entirely backwards. You should take pride in the ruling party that you elect, if you have a competent government. Ethnicity, history and culture are what the ignorant cling to, in order to hide their dullness.

        Only in China would something like that be acceptable. I think you’re a big ant colony. Incredibly stupid people who are easily controlled. It makes you incredibly efficient, but not very innovative.

        • Ma Shanmu

          Completely agree except for 1 bit: the “efficient” bit. I’ve been all over the world, and I’ve never seen as much astounding inefficiency when it comes to accomplishing basic tasks as I’ve seen in the PRC. One of the only things that is done efficiently here is buying/recharging a SIM card.

          For example, I like to do the Starbucks/Costa comparison (depending on which is available). If I go to a Starbucks/Costa here in China, invariably it takes 2 or 3 times as long with the same employee:customer ratio to get my drink as it does anywhere else I’ve been.

          Thank goodness I’ll soon be free of it all! :)

        • asdf

          Oh I get what you’re saying. Since there’s no elections in China, their citizens have absolutely nothing to be proud of. In fact, they’re not even human. Real humans can only exist in a “Democracy”. Citizens of any other type of government are all “Dull”, “Ignorant”, subhuman “MONKEYS”,”ANTS”.

          You think authoritarian countries can’t be innovative? How was any type of innovation possible in Ancient Dynastic China?? How did they come up with the junk rigs, rudders, compasses, guns, cannons, landmines, and rockets without a democratic government?? How did Nazi ANTS make the first jet engines, stealth planes, and nuclear reactors? How did Soviet MONKEYS launch the first Man into space? Stop bullshitting and provide some actual historical evidence. You’re making a joke out of yourself.

          • Dr SUN

            you realize of course ASDF the party don’t refer to you as a citizen, but one of the masses that needs to be lead, because your too stupid to be part of the body politic.

            Or are you a card carrying member, that’s been to CPC indoctrination school.

          • asdf

            Of course. . . monkeys can’t possibly be called citizens, they’re not even human. Once any person begins to deny their faith towards the almighty religion of Democracy they are immediately labeled as an ignorant subhuman monkey ant. I think Author already covered that point very well.

            and i was born and raised in canada how many times do i need to repeat that you huge dunce…

      • hess

        “Intelligent people take pride in their ethnicity, history, and culture.”
        Sieg Heil?

    • Northerner

      I care that the UK government response was not:

      ‘Don’t like it?’

      ‘Then FUCK OFF.’

      ‘Problem solved.’

      • Northener: Yeah…I was kind of thinking the same thing.

      • Gontraf

        Couldn’t agree more.

        • Guy

          Kind of like the response from Leeds to the CCP criticism of the visit of the Dalai Lama

          • Northerner

            Shit I didn’t know about that.

            They should have let Geoffrey Boycott respond to the Chinese.

            Pride partially restored.

  • XiaoHei

    Hope one day we will not have any countries and nationalistic or patriotic people among us. It only leads to more problems with the ‘We are better than you’ situations.

    ‘Group-ism’ sucks.

    • ddd

      I don’t think this is a case of one group thinking they are better than the other, rather it is about the ccp’s heavy handed tactics of trying to suppress Taiwan on the international stage.

      • sm

        …”supress” Taiwan on the international stage. Need China do so?

        Taiwan is the part of China.

        • Yeah, part of the Republic of China.
          The PRC were the rebels and never took Taiwan.
          I’m in Taiwan right now and I can assure you, with my 20/10 vision, that there’s an ROC flag and ROC government in power, not a CCP one. Therefore, it’s not part of China.

          • pada

            we all know whether taiwan is part of china or not, is up to america to decide. so ask your bllody ex-prez, who not only dumped taiwan against wish of your grandfather but also knew as much as your fbi about how to bug your pillow talk.

          • moop

            we know who its totally not up to: the prc.

          • Pada, nothing you said made any sense.
            Everyone, even the CCP, knows that Taiwan is it’s own country. They only say it belongs to China to get you nationalist fools riled up. In the mean time, they do plenty of business with Taiwan and doesn’t do a damned thing about the fact that Taiwan does business with everyone else. You’re such a tool and your own government knows it.

          • Tengu

            Now I’m curious why the FBI send a soundman to listen to Whiskers’ “Pillow Talk”, you must be swinging some serious shit Kitty Cat!

          • It’s pretty vile, I have to admit. Spiked penis and all.

          • Tengu

            “Spiked for her pleasure too!”

          • David

            You are generally right. But there are mutual claims here though. In addition, I am not sure if I agree with your other post. This is because the current ROC gov’t also claims One China, just like their CCP counterpart. See for example the inauguration speech of President Ma this year.

          • Lakeman

            it depends on what kind of buisness you’re talking about…the prc does play a major role.

          • Lakeman

            yea, prc does allow taiwan to do buisness with other places, but not at the expense of the prc. that is, taiwan cannot conduct buisness officially as a nation. that’s where the problem is. so no, the prc govt does really believe taiwan is not a country on its own, and its sad. since most taiwanese like me don’t really believe Taiwan and china are the same country.

        • ddd

          Taiwan may be considered as part of China, but it is also an independent nation.
          The PRC doesn’t represent Taiwan. They have no jurisdiction there, and their domestic and international relation policies are determined by a government that is independent from the PRC.

        • Tony

          Why? China gave Taiwan away to Japan in 1895. Taiwan’s developed a separate culture since then. Bitch at your ancestors for not being able to stand up to little Japan but let Taiwan choose its own destiny.

          • David

            It seems to me the culture is still very similiar, largely of the same origin. But that has little to do with nationalities though.

        • john

          This is the sort of things that’s really hard to figure out, b/c different people seem to believe differently when it comes to the problem of identity. But to the poster who said that the CCP knows Taiwan as an indepedent country and just wants to fool their citizens into believing otherwise, I am not sure about that. It’s possible, but I doubt it. It seems to me the CCP perceive this problem as a aftermath of the Chinese civil war and nothing more. Not to say they are right though.

      • Chad

        You don’t think bickering over a national flag is about nationalism? Give me a freaking break. Taiwanese are ULTRA-nationalistic and I say this as someone who knows many Taiwanese people. It’s utterly sad that otherwise smart people are so brainwashed.

        • Well, yeah, but they are being refused their rightful sovereignty to the point that big ol PRC throws a little princess fit if their flag is shown in London.

          • Chad

            It’s a flag. Get over it.

        • mr. wiener

          What’s your nationality Chad.? Would you be tickety-boo if someone tapped you on the arm and said “you can’t show that flag here?”
          …but hey, It’s just a flag , right?

          • Chad

            Canadian. And why the sarcasm? I wouldn’t give a damn. I love my country’s values, education system, and culture but I couldn’t care less about being some flag-waving idiot. I’m guessing you’re some old fart right?

          • You’re not Canadian, stop trying to sully the good name you poser.

          • mr. wiener

            Sarcasm is par for the course around here, especially from old farts like me sonny.
            My point [minus the sarcasm] was that it’s all just “a flag” until it’s your flag. How would you feel if a bunch of American hosers where whipping their arses with the maple leaf banner. I bit steamed right?

          • Chad

            Nope, I wouldn’t be steamed at all. It’d just further cement my view that most Americans are classless and ignorant. Simple as that.

    • moop

      yes the EU has been such a success that we should try it on a world-wide scale

  • Rod

    Any news of whether this has got around Mainland internet?

    I think it’s great that Taiwanese people in London will put their own flag out without fear of repercussions of the Chinese government.

    I wonder if the Olympians will do so as well.

    • They should. Even if they don’t remove the official “Chinese Taipei” things from their shirts, just slap a flag on there, or carry it around. Can’t stop them.

      • Greg (the smart one)

        I wear a Taiwan baseball shirt here in China, just to antagonize the mount breathing cunts like pada etc.

        None of them in the last five years have had the balls to say a thing to me.

        Fucking mainlanders – all halitosis and no real ball to back the bad breath up.

        • AngryCanadien

          you’re not antagonizing anyone by wearing that shirt in china. no one in china actually cares what shirt someone wears. the fact that you think people care speak more volume of your pettiness than anything else. you have the mentality that it’s you vs china. you’re on a one man journey to “liberate” taiwan! lol. but seriously, chill out. Though most mainlanders consider taiwan as part of China, many of them are quite sympathetic towards taiwan because of their democracy, human rights and free speech and only wish that the mainland could enjoy the many things that taiwan enjoy. So there’s no really no need to swear at mainlanders. if you do, i’ll halitosis your ass! LOL. nah, my breath smells great!

          • Chom

            well said. You also have to wonder if he hates the mainland so much and loves Taiwan, then…well, already in China mainland 5 years?

        • jin

          lol, greg youre pathetic.
          wtf does wearing a shirt have to do with anything in china? you can wear a USA flag shirt and nobody will say a thing.
          it seems like you seriously hate china, you hate all chinese and YET and i mean YET YOU STAY IN CHINA? cause youre so fking pathetic in your own country? youre soo scared of losing your english teacher job with couple thousand RMB pay?
          hate it? GTFO.

          • Tengu

            He wears a baseball cap and thinks he’s the 10th man on the field. We should let him enjoy his delusions.

  • Xiongmao

    I think my feelings regarding the subject of Taiwan is a bit along the middle. If they want to join up, fine, as long as it’s peaceful. I can’t say I agree with China’s tactics on the other hand. They’ve been bullying Taiwan and all other nations on Earth to disown the island on the international and diplomatic scene. Also I do find it plain wrong how the CCP distorts history. I’m by no means an expert but it’s pretty much fact that for the vast majority of Chinese dynastic history, Taiwan and its indigenous population wasn’t a part of China, even in modern time, Taiwan was part de facto independent or under Japan from the first Sino-Japanese war.

    • sm

      Talking about bullying, I think it’s American’s strong suit.
      Talking about distroting, well, no one on the earth can compete with Japan.

      • Jin

        OK i must agree the Japanese are a super race and amazing country.

      • Guang Xiang

        Stop deflecting the topic. I am so sick of how everybody who defends china brings up ‘but they do so too!’ Newsflash: anything can happen anywhere. Now man up and face the topic.

        • Chom

          Guang, I guess they are also sick of the hypocrisy of other countries lecturing China on human rights etc. when there are many western countries with far worse human rights records.

          • White monkey

            Name one please…

          • Zappa Frank

            for example?

          • Glen

            could you entertain us with an example?

          • sm

            @ the three above : buying guns freely.
            It seems that you got human rights. But you can also see it as a way that deprives the other people rights to live.

          • Chom

            U.S of A.

            I will let Noam Chomsky spell it out for you:

          • ddd

            You speak as though nations are individual humans. Every nation contains millions of people, who do different things and have different opinions.

          • Zappa Frank

            this is absurd. So you really think that USA are far worse with human rights than china?

          • Chom

            @Zappa Frank Have you watched the youtube video I linked to? Do you disagree with anything in it?

            If by human, we mean everyone on the planet no matter where they are from are equal, then the U.S has clearly the worst human rights record.

          • Joaquin

            When it comes to human rights violations, USA is on top list of violator. So confusing seeing here that USA people are more brainwashed than Chinese and they still try to make a point in discussions.
            Just wondering what would happen if tomorrow one citizen in USA make a peaceful Communist group there, free of speech, yeah sure, land of freedom.. of course , come on.. always they have same options to chose on government, electoral campaigns financed by private founds, (corruption in front of your eyes and you can’t see it), please tell me you are just turning a blind eye, from many Chinese y can accept because they don’t have the mediums to get informed, but if is not that way and really believe in all you say, really they are doing a good brainwash work over there.

          • Glen

            I tried to open your youtube.com link, Chom, but it wouldn’t work. I’m, not sure why, certain websites don’t work too well here in China, maybe if I call up Telecom they’ll fix it for me, but most of my friends have the same problem with youtube, Facebook, and a few other sites… it’s really strange

          • Glen

            Joaquin,
            It’s clear to me that you don’t know what you’re talking about. There are already Communist parties and organizations in America. If you want to see what would happen, you can just do some research, something I’d recommend before posting such rash claims.
            Secondly, your point about corporations and America’s skewed democracy is a good point when comparing America to other democratic and free countries around the world. But the argument is “war worse than China”. Let’s say that voting in America were COMPLETELY rigged, and no one had a voice. I still don’t see it being as bad as, much less “far worse than” in in case.

          • Chad

            USA, GB, etc. How many millions of people has the USA alone killed in the past few decades, especially in the Middle East. Over oil of all things. Compare that to China’s history over the past few decades. Done. Don’t speak of human rights if your country has slaughtered countless millions recently ;)

          • Glen

            We could go all day with the numbers game, and I’m not going to defend the United States’ international record of the past century.

            However, the numbers don’t exactly help your case.
            The Great Leap Forward alone claimed 45 million lives.

            I guess you could argue that its worse that Americans are affecting the lives of other countries, which is appalling, but a human life should be considered a life no matter which country they were born.

          • Zappa Frank

            @chom, like Glen said, i cannot open youtube here in china.
            Even on people slaughtered.. yeah, it may be true..but on the other side you have to admit that nobody in a war is so respectfull of humans lives as USA, still not enought i agree, but still nobody do the same. And i don’t think like Glen said that is worse affecting people from other countries.. in a nantion your own citizen have to be more important than others counties’ citizen..

          • Chom

            @Glen, Zappa Frank:

            I am also in China, ShenZhen. I am sure you have a VPN and I recommend you watch the video. I once was debating a friend back home and challenged him as to what human rights abuses he was talking about in China “Well, um, well…they can’t get facebook in China?”

            @Glen “However, the numbers don’t exactly help your case.
            The Great Leap Forward alone claimed 45 million lives.”

            Ok, leaving aside the U.S human rights abuses on the international stage for a moment, what you say about the famine/GLF is true. However if you watch the video I linked to Chomsky references a study done by an Indian professor who concludes that “India put more skeletons in its closet every eight years than China did during its years of shame”

            He is talking of “man-made” deaths of course, just as people in the Chinese famine weren’t actually killed by the government, they are still responsible because of their lack of action. According to the study, the extra mortality in India was caused by India not implementing as effective rural health care and education programs as Mao’s China did, so the government was also responsible. If we look at it that way, then democratic India killed more of its people than Communist China between 1950 and 1979..that is something to think about.

            “I guess you could argue that its worse that Americans are affecting the lives of other countries, which is appalling, but a human life should be considered a life no matter which country they were born.”

            I am confused a little here. If a human life is equal no matter from which country then that would strengthen the view that the U.S has the worst human rights record. Invading countries, installing dictators, starving children in Iraq through the oil for food program and other sanctions it proposed.

            @Zappa Frank: “in a nantion your own citizen have to be more important than others counties’ citizen..”

            Ok, now we are getting somewhere. That is an honest argument, and probably this is the real view that many people hold. However they don’t use this argument, they instead use hypocritical arguments. I don’t mean anyone on this forum, I mean the general argument you hear against China. They use these hypocritical arguments because they feel guilty for holding that view. When people point out their hypocrisy, they don’t have a foot to stand on. At least starting a debate with the view you have expressed, you don’t need to hide anything.

            If we entertain this idea, then of course I totally agree China has done a much worse job in how they treat and protect its own citizens than the U.S has. Though again, I would still argue there are other countries worse (see my point above about India (India since independence)) Then if we consider India and numerous other countries were part of the British empire…

            Even though that is an honest and valid argument, I can’t agree with it. As Glen said a human life should be considered a life no matter which country they were born. I would add, should also be valued equally. So if we are going on this measure, then communist China’s human rights violations can’t hold a candle to that of the U.S.

          • Chad

            Glen, can we try talking about the present please? Is that possible or would that make it blatantly obvious that Chom is right? ;)

          • Chom, Chad, china apologists, whatever:

            Your supposition that India had more people die than china and that mao’s china had better healthcare is so far beyond ridiculous that it’s nothing worth discussing seriously.

            As for staying in the present, okey dokey. What human rights are being violated in china at this very moment? Freedom of peaceful assembly (strikes and protests) freedom of religion (Falun Gong, underground churches), freedom of speech (people being ‘disappeared’ for defending various disenfranchized groups), the right to a fair trial by an impartial judge and jury (always some migrant worker who did it eh?), basic Geneva convention rights (NOT being tortured, not having your organs harvested, adequate food and water in prison, etc.)

            I’m not even American, but I find the constant need to draw comparisons between china and the U.S. unreasonable and downright pathetic. Yeah, I can totally see those things happening in the States every single day… Suuuuuurrrrrrreeeeeee…..

            This is about the Taiwanese flag being removed because a childish political group throws a hissy fit everytime someone doesn’t kowtoe to their convoluted and nonsensical point of view. Two words: Fuck ’em.

          • jin

            @Zappa Franks
            i laugh at this “but on the other side you have to admit that nobody in a war is so respectfull of humans lives as USA”

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9154577/US-soldier-accused-of-Afghan-massacre-does-not-remember-attack.html
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_prison_abuse_scandals

            and plenty more where that came from

            so respectfull of human lives… hmm…….. NOT this is INHUMAN

          • Zappa Frank

            Jin you’re right. But despite of that let’s face also the USA made publics those things and processed the authors and responsible, maybe not enought, maybe they even find a way to declare them innocente in some case.. but at least they admit that something done wasn’t right. On the other side most of armies in such kind of situation don’t admit anything, and simply keep on saying they did what was right to do.
            Let’s take an example, in my opinion significative, i think you heard talk about the “My Lai massacre”.. american soldier raped and killed everything in a village, even animals, but after that they were condamned, maybe not all, maybe the penalty was not enought, but at least there was a process.Same massacre in vitenam war have been done by Koreans, but they said that there was nothing wrong in that.. nor the korean population protested either.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_Nhi_and_Phong_Nhat_massacre
            and about My Lai massacre they said “Calley (the liutenant in charge) tried to get revenge for the deaths of his troops. In a war, this is natural.”
            It’s a stupid example, but i think it gives the idea.. it doesn’t mean american will always respect humans right in war, but for sure they do it more often than most of other armies.. if i have to be conquered for sure i would prefer americans than koreans..

          • jin

            yes, shit happens in wars. but its stupid when they rape and massacre a entire village for nothing. and the punishment they get is….. dishonorable discharge or some other super featherweight punishment.
            and i dont know… maybe some countries are worse but this sure is not right.

            On October 22, 2010 nearly 400,000 secret United States army field reports and war logs, detailing torture, summary executions and war crimes, were passed on to the British paper, the Guardian and several other international media organisations through the whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. Among others, the logs detail how US authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers, whose conduct appears to be systematic and normally unpunished and that US troops abused prisoners for years even after the Abu Ghraib scandal.[130][131]

            On June 27, 2011 the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the appeal of lawsuits from a group of 250 Iraqis who wanted to sue the two contractors CACI International Inc. and Titan Corp. (now a subsidiary of L-3 Communications) over claims of abuse by interrogators and translators at the prison. The suits had been dismissed by the lower courts on the grounds that the companies held a derivative sovereign immunity from suits based on their status as government contractors pursuant to a battle-field preemption doctrine

          • Chad

            Why do you keep deflecting Elijah? I asked you.. how many millions of people has the US killed in other countries in the past several decades? How about China? Thanks.

            And it’s funny because the majority of those rights you mentioned are violated in the US too (or outside of the US by Americans because it would look bad on them if they tortured prisoners IN America ;) )

          • Who’s deflecting? The question asked was what specific rights were being abused. I listed a few of the most obvious. You’re the one who thinks this can be decided by a non-sensical question based on how many died.

            Tell you what, when any other country in the world kills between 50-70 MILLION in just under three decades, I’ll entertain your question. Will that make you happy?

            Too much stuck in the past? Ok, how about if any other government kills more people in a year than all the rest combined for five years?

            No? Hmmmmm, ok. How about when another country demands respect and fair play while actively subverting those things by demanding special clauses and back doors for them to use?

            Fine, last one, rather than sending in their own troops, let’s just keep funding the local warlords so that THEY can rape and kill as long as the resources keep flowing? Damn western imperialist placing conditions on their aid and demanding the money be followed all the way to the end.

            For the love of God, stop reading the “People’s” Daily. If you have to touch it, use it as emergency toilet paper only… That’s it’s only worth. Also, do you want to know a little secret to know when the newscasters are lying on CCTV? Their mouths are open.

          • And to reiterate for those apologists who insist on selective sight/reading:

            Guang Xiang said: ‘I’m so sick of how everybody who defends china brings up “but they do so too”.’ For the less educated, pointing out someone else’s faults as a means to deflect attsntion from your own is not only childish, it doesn’t make you right. Just two people who are wrong.

            As I said, this is an article about the Taiwanese flag being torn down cause china has a temper tnatrum when everyone else doesn’t kow tow to their petty demands.

            So who here is really deflecting? How does this relate to any other country except Taiwan and china? Hmmmmmm…

          • Chad

            Elijah: For some kid claiming to be born in Canada, you don’t seem to have any reading comprehension ability at all. Here’s my first comment: “USA, GB, etc. How many millions of people has the USA alone killed in the past few decades, especially in the Middle East. Over oil of all things. Compare that to China’s history over the past few decades. Done. Don’t speak of human rights if your country has slaughtered countless millions recently ;)”

            Again, try to focus on recent history. Hell, even the past few decades. TRY IT. Now, focus there Elijah. Try to answer my question. How many millions have died as a direct result of the USA’s actions (and her allies) overseas or anywhere in the past few decades? How about China? Hm? HMMM? Thought so kid.

          • Glen

            If we’re talking about the past few decades, I think we can still include all of the things I mentioned, in fact it was because of your “past few decades” comment that I brought up the Great Leap forward in the first place.
            The problem with the past few decades is that China keeps killing people and refuses to tell the world about it, so it’s difficult to see how many people are dying. Death penalty rates have remained unknown in China’s stats.
            An complaining about deflecting? That whole thing about India’s stats was the biggest deflection I’ve ever seen. Try and sticking to your argument rather than swaying and bringing up random quotes from people.
            Throughout this post several people are accepting major downfalls of the US. Because there are. Here’s the thing, learn to self reflect. It will make your argument much better and you’ll be more open to the truth. The more you deny the more pitiful it looks. It’s gotten to the point now where it’s just sad.

          • Chad

            Glen: I think you need to look up the definition of “few”. I guess someone trying to keep up a losing argument could try to redefine the word. Right, China is killing people and keeping it all a secret. I’m sure they could kill millions of people like the US+friends could and keep it all a big secret in this day and age. Give me a break. I never talked about India. Chad != Chom.

            “Throughout this post several people are accepting major downfalls of the US. Because there are. Here’s the thing, learn to self reflect.”

            Oh please. I am asking you to acknowledge ONE thing. Which kind of folks have killed more people in the past few decades even overseas or anywhere? I ask this because it’s a commonly parroted comment about China to speak of its “human rights issues” and these comments often come from people living in countries that scapegoated, tortured, killed and methodically killed millions of people in other countries while putting themselves on some golden pedestal the entire time. Hilarious. I do acknowledge that China has plenty of ills, but it’s all about relativity. Here’s a simpler question: How many countries has China invaded in the past 30 years vs… say the US or the EU? Or hell, even the UK, France, or Italy alone?

          • Tengu

            War is one thing,w e can all agree “shit happens”. America, Chinese Japanese,m you name it, we all fucked when it comes to how we wage war. Let’s leave it at that and unless you’ve been in one…be very, very quiet!

            When talking about “Human Rights”, we’re basically talking about how a country/government treats it’s own people.

            Syria, bombing t5h shit out os it’s own people in its own cities.

            China and Russia block the UN Resolution, why, because if they allow the UN to get involved in Human Right’s violations in Syria’s “internal conflict”…that microscope could be shifted on China and Russia someday.

            Russia is a kleptocracy, and China…well it’s China…the only place in the world you can hang yourself in your prison cell with your feel planted firmly on the ground or commit suicide by stabbing yourself over 30 times. Jesus, you’re not even creative when it comes to mayhem.

          • Glen

            A few means some, there is no defined number for a few. 8 decades are a few, so are 3,5,6,2. I used to get paid for something like that, but now I’m a volunteer.
            Other words could be used, such as several, a bit of, and some. Since clearly you didn’t look it up yourself, and I did, I’ll share with you: few (pronoun)
            ( used with a plural verb ) a small number of persons or things
            A small number is completely relative to the discussion so I would understand if a few means something different to you than it does to me.
            Anyways,
            Millions of people? Really? Blowing up numbers doesn’t help your argument, it actually diminishes it. ~297,000 deaths. There’s your death toll of casualties from American wars and sanctions (sanctions add up to about 36% of the total number). Horrible, but hardly millions the millions you’ve claimed. Even more so for your case, China has come no where near killing that many people since 1990. So in deaths, of the last 2 (couple) of decades America has killed more people. In that same span China has directly and purposefully negatively affected the human rights of hundreds of millions of people. Death counts, not known (but I’ll give you that it’s probably less than 297,000), but if you want to get into philosophy we can talk all about what life really means once you’ve taken everything else from it. So we’ve got a good argument if we’re only talking about 20 years.
            However, unlike Chinese middle school history books, what matters in the past IS important, and it DID happen, so it’s not like every 20 years the past is undone. And I know you might have a short-term memory but the statement I am arguing against is “there are many western countries with far worse human rights records.” Now if you want to talk about definitions lets define records and records. records – to set down in writing for the purpose of preserving evidence. history – the branch of knowledge dealing with past events. I think we can agree that the two relate. So in actuality I could throw a lot more history out there for you, but I’ll stick with (1949-1975): 45,000,000. (That number gets a lot bigger when the two outside numbers spread.)
            Given the opportunity China is guilty of invading other countries. It’s part of the reason we use terms like “Greater China” rather than just the word China, and protests to this day still turn bloody in the mid-north, northwest and southwest. Or when they invaded Vietnam due to reduce offensive capacity towards them. Very similar to why many of the USA invasions happen.

          • Chad

            Glen: Didn’t even bother reading what you wrote since you’re unable to express your thoughts in less than a novel.

          • Glen

            That’s alright, it makes a lot more sense now why you’re so uninformed.

          • Lakeman

            I doubt china is “the only place” where weird, ridiculous things happen.

          • Lakeman

            Anyway, as i was saying i know china is a very strange place and ridiculous things happening all over the country almost every day. that is what their country is. Still, I wouldn’t say it’s the only place in the world where you can witness strange things. I am just uncomfortable with absolute statement and generalization like that, that’s all. but i can see why some people would think china is the only place in the world for strange stuff. it is definitely not a good place to live, that’s for sure.

        • sm

          I’m happy to do so.
          what are you going to do about it?

          • Glen

            Unfortunately your example is missing the point.
            Wherein lack of gun control is an enormous problem in the United States, it is certainly not relatable to China’s human rights issues. A country depriving it’s people of human rights is completely different from a country under-regulating goods that have gotten out of control.
            I’ll give you this:
            lack of gun control is a problem…
            However it’s one that will certainly face regulation in the near future, because the government does not WANT people killing each other.
            Human rights being withheld from people by their governments are a much more direct course. And to imply that one this such as gun rights (which again isn’t exactly on point) is even close to “far worse human rights records” is simply ridiculous.

          • sm

            well, kinda.

            You got a point. But the right to live is one of the most basic human rights. so yeah, anyway, not closely,but still related to it.

          • Chom

            Glen, sm doesn’t speak for me so do not use ridicule my point by pointing out the flaws in his.

            Could you spell out clearly the “Human rights being withheld” by the Chinese government? I am not saying they don’t I just want you to spell out clearly what your mean rather than always using vague arguments.

          • Glen

            Chom,
            I had to use your point because sm was defending you, the point SM was making was based on your original claim, therefore the frame of reference.

            As for which rights are being withheld, that is quite a beautiful irony, because I feel uncomfortable spelling it out online. Why? Because I’m in China right now. And it’s not exactly legal for me to say negative things about the government. And let’s really not kid ourselves.

          • sm

            @glen well , I was not defending chom, I was just saying.

          • Glen

            @SM, understood, it seemed you were defending based on the pattern in the thread. But regardless I had to stick by the thread in order for the argument to be relavent.

        • jin

          “I am so sick of how everybody who defends china brings up ‘but they do so too!’ Newsflash: anything can happen anywhere.”

          anything can happen anywhere, and yet they talk shit only about china.

    • starting

      CHina has not proven it won in taiwan. but it already has proven its won in the south china sea and africa

      • mr. wiener

        No one wins in Africa.

        • wrong the mandelas won in africa and so did the muslim brotherhood. china wins mining rights in zimbabwe and sudan
          http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqviwi_zimbabwe-looks-to-china-for-economic-revival-10-aug-09_news?search_algo=2

          • mr. wiener

            Oh Christ on a bike, tell me you are not using Zimbabwe as an example of what’s right in Africa.
            Had some friends go back to SA for Christmas, they got me a bunch of Zimbabwean million pound note [real cost$ 2.50 US I think]. I saved them to put in red envelopes foe all my friends at Chinese new year.

          • Tengu

            Mugabe’s a fucking nut.

            He had a staff member of his opposition leader arrested one time.

            BBC
            “His bail was set at one trillion Zimbabwe dollars (HOLY SHIT!), about $1,200 USD, here is a live interview with him after being released!

            Morsi won, but total votes from other parties were more than double what he won, so don’t start sucking your buddy’s dick just yet about the Muslim Brotherhood.

            Sudan is a success…seriously do you read current events from multiple sources to crossfoot them and find the truth?

            Sudanese President Omar al Bashir committed genocide in Darfur (remember?) and is now doing the same thing against the people in the Nuba Mountain region.

            “Christ on a bike!”*
            * Mr. Weiner

      • Greg (the smart one)

        What? Say that again dickhead. Come n, say it again.

        It has won nothing in Taiwan, and has won nothing in the SC Sea or Africa.

        The world generally despises and mocks China – you being a good example.

        Piss off back to your hole.

        • well as proof CHina males have also won all your white womens

          • Getrealson

            Yeah, thats proof! I can’t believe it! I wondered where all the white women were! Thank you for that obscure link to prove beyond any doubt that asain men have won all the white women.

            You Fuckwit!

          • Greg (the smart one)

            Fair enough – I guess I’ve bagged about 100 or so of your pretty little sluts. Yummy little snatches they have..

          • haha that video was made by someone with so much butthurt.

          • Glen

            well I wouldn’t go as far as sayings ALL white women, haha, but this video is fine by me. I’m always excited and happy to see interracial dating and marriage. However what if someone posted a video of white men with asian women. Somehow I feel like it would be met with a great deal of hate.

            Oh wait.

          • Nanny Hiccups

            hehehe those guys look so extremely awkward and uncomfortable in every picture, i hope do hope those maneaters teach them dance of love.

          • mr. wiener

            *Sigh* themig/starting …Relevance?
            I have news for you son, a lot of people from different races and culture bang uglies with each other every day.

            …….well, maybe not you.

          • Chom

            @Glen lol…thought you couldn’t open youtube?

          • Glen

            it was mockery, yes i can open youtube and yes i watched the video, i was mocking the fact that someone who is trying to defend human rights used a link that is being blocked by freedom of press

        • Chad

          I guess you missed the global survey showing that people think of China more positively than the US and many other countries.

          http://www.globescan.com/commentary-and-analysis/press-releases/press-releases-2012/186-views-of-europe-slide-sharply-in-global-poll-while-views-of-china-improve.html

          Newsflash: Not the whole world is full of China-hating lunatics like on Chinasmack.

          • Glen

            That survey is probably not as accurate as real global opinions.
            I’d go even further to say that America is much more hated than this survey suggests. America is an extremely hated nation on the global perspective, but hate is typically drawn from emotion rather than logic. And emotionally it’s very easy to hate one with power. Regardless of what America does and does not do, they will be hated until they are no longer “on top”.
            Public opinion is just that, opinion, and opinions have been manipulated since the dawn of time.

          • Chad

            Right, which is why China’s global reputation has been getting better despite becoming more powerful. Excellent theories Glen. Shall I hand you your PhD now?

          • Glen

            There’s a big difference between #1 and everyone else Chad, I thought I wouldn’t have to draw that out for you, as it’s probably clear for everyone else.

            People LIKE when others oppose the more powerful. So a country growing in power that is yet to be #1 (IE China) would gain popularity. I guess you were too excited to prove me wrong than to think about your argument.

          • Chad

            Oh so China’s reputation will continue to rise until it becomes #1 and then it will suddenly drop like a rock to the USA’s level. Of course people hating the US has nothing to do with them bombing dozens of countries in the past 10 years, starting rebellions in dozens more, and having military bases all over the world. And then you would dance and glee and say ‘I told you so’ because you claimed China’s good reputation was all inaccuracies insurveys, being the underdog, and manipulation.

            Anyway, my point was that Greg’s claim that the world mocks and despises China is obviously false. I proved him wrong. Simple as that. Now shoo and stop trying to justify it ;)

          • Glen

            I guess I’m wasting my time arguing with you, as you clearly live in your own world, or just haven’t thought it through much. No one blames the vice president when the president has to make a big decision.
            Unless you really think the United States is inherently evil (which if that’s the case then we will never agree) you have to understand that the products of these decisions were built up from a large pressure built up from the responsibility of being the most powerful nation in the world. If you want justification for every decision you can take a world politics class, but since you’ve offered the PhD I could continue to teach you a little more.
            But it goes without saying that there are problems that happen, and not all decisions are good, but given the position of power those decisions are made.
            As China grows in power they too will have to accept responsibility and stop being passive (something that they’re already facing criticism for) and to deny that responsibility is to deny your position in the world. It’s easy to avoid criticism when you pass on the decision in the first place.
            Here’s your first HW assignment, I know its childish but you have to start somewhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcAaertdaQk&feature=related

        • AngryCanadien

          LMAO! such an angry person! what are you 12 years old? are you gonna beat up everyone that say something bad about taiwan??

          all right, a little experiment then! Taiwan is part of China! FUCK TAIWAN! are you gonna find me and kick my ass?? on the internet?

          lol. you’re ridiculous! daring someone to say something in a threatening manner. it’s as if your threat actually means anything obviously you’re very passionate about this subject matter, but take a chill pill. arguing like this over the internet is like the special olympics, even if you win you’re still retarded. lol

  • linette

    Jiayou jiayou taiwan! I support you! Taiwan is better than china. So what china has more military power and more money, taiwan has equal human right and more freedom. A far more superior gov’t system than china. Add oil, the people in hk support you!

    • sm

      MLG shit

      • mr. wiener

        MLG? Mooses love guns? Many large grunts? My lovely goose?

        • sm

          Thanks for guessing.

          It seems that you should learn more about colloquial Chinese.

          anyway, use your imagination. If you are right, then I will tell you.

          • mr. wiener

            Ahh, enlightenment dawns, MLGB. Checked the glossary, Sorry I thought it was an English euphemism. See, I learnt a new thing today. We don’t use that one in Taiwan much.

        • sm

          You got it
          you are taiwanren?
          I thought you are American.

          • mr. wiener

            American? oh the ignorance!
            Australian mate. Been here in Taiwan the last 14 years.
            You?

          • sm

            haha you guess?

          • mr. wiener

            ummm…Eskimo?, uh sorry I meant Inuit.

          • Tengu

            If he was American he would have checked the glossary first…sorry, couldn’t resist MW!

          • mr. wiener

            Good thing it wasn’t a thesaurus. I’d be afraid to look at it in case it ate me.

  • Pingback: Taiwan Flag Torn Down in London Prior to Olympics()

  • linette

    Taiwan is a country in its own right. One piece of 8 by 10 constitution paper saying it’s part of china won’t change the fact taiwan is already an established economy with its own taiwan gov’t system. China needs to stop bullying taiwan. It’s ridiculous.

    • mr. wiener

      Much as I’d love to agree with you, the whole issue has become a bone of contention between The west and China. The “face” value of it may even prompt a situation like the Falklands war if the balance of power shifts in the body politic in China.
      Fortunately this looks unlikely at the moment. Hopefully a more pragmatic solution will come about. Whatever happens Taiwan will still continue to be Taiwan. I’d like to see the day when China is more like Illa de Formosa.

    • Li Yan

      It’s because CCP isn’t recognized as the legitimate government of China by KMT, CCP won’t recognized KMT as the legitimate government of China either.

      The usage of “China” is easily misused a lot. Taiwan IS China itself, ruled by KMT/ROC, NOT part of CCP/PRC’s Mainland.

      Stop misusing “China”.

      • mr. wiener

        Lets maintain the fantasy that Taiwan is china [and visa versa] it seemed to keep the peace for the last 60 years. And I’m all for that,
        I hate picky troll from both sides of this issue.

  • falcon

    Maybe they didn’t want it to be placed next to the syrian flag?

    • Li Yan

      Good one.

      • Tengu

        I second that…everyone thinks Assad’s a dick!

  • the Olympics comes around once in 4 years, Taiwan show your pride in your country. Your work hard for this moment. Leave the flags where they be. Each country is its own. Each person had the right to show who and what they are made of. There is beauty in all people, places and things. Leave the flag as it is Taiwan has a lot to be proud of as do all the athletes. This is a time of respect for all.

    • Zappa Frank

      according with the CIO taiwan cannot use its own flag, can just use che olympic taiwan flag that is different, else they cannot join the olymipic games.

      • ddd

        they only can’t use the flag for official stuff, the place where the flag was placed was not an official olympic area.

  • Eddie

    LOL all these Chinese Taipei people getting pissed over these types of incidents because China dominates them in the international community. They love talking tough only because US is there to babysit them. One day they’ll rejoin the mainland just like Hong Kong and Macau did.

    • Greg (the smart one)

      Um, no they won’t.

      Sorry to burst your bubble.

      Back to your cave now..

  • Nanny Hiccups

    Taiwan is a soverieign nation. Just let it go and let there be peace.

  • Alecks

    All of this won’t matter in the next generation. The current generation in Taiwan is still very anti-China, so China will just wait for the next generation to “re-unify” Taiwan.

    The seeds have already been planted.
    Foxconn (aka Hon Hai) is the largest exporter in China, they make Apple iphones and ipads. They are also a Taiwanese company. So you already have the most successful Taiwanese company being the largest employer of Chinese labor in China. It’s all about money and business.

    The Chinese Civil War is a distant memory, and once the last survivors die out, no one will really care who won China, and who lost and fled to Taiwan.

    • Nanny Hiccups

      The quality of life is better in taiwan so I am wondering why Taiwan would want to step back?

      • Alecks

        The quality of life in China is improving rapidly. China is now experiencing the economic and industrial boom Taiwan experienced in the 70’s and 80’s.

        If you visit China today, you see cars, cell phones, modern electronics, small shop owners, and high rise buildings being built everywhere. You would not think it was a communist country, with so much capitalism evident around you. I went to Shenzhen recently, and many areas of it looked like Taipei or Hong Kong.

        • mr. wiener

          Maybe, at this rate it will take 100 years for the rest of China to be like Taiwan in the 80’s.

          • Alecks

            I think in 10-20 years, not only will China surpass Taiwan, but they will surpass the US and Europe as well as the world’s top economic power.

          • mr. wiener

            Time will prove one of us right. What worries me at the moment is I can hear a lot of chickens being counted before they are hatched. I love Taiwan, and I realize economically at least it’s financial fate is tied to that of China. I wish peace and prosperity to both Chinas.

          • terroir

            @ X-Lacks

            Sure. China will do just as you say — become the top economic power — if every single facet of China right now does not change.

            However, as you’ll point out yourself, China is undergoing tremendous change. These new changes are going to lead to a new set of circumstances that may not lead to what you suggest.

            To wit: everything that the China admins are doing right now is to attempt to preserve this one moment in time in a bottle.

          • linette

            I think in 10-20 years, not only will China surpass Taiwan…

            China already surpass Taiwan and most of the other countries in the world in terms of economic. But it is still consider a third world country because most part of China people still live like third world country. Until China gov’t reform and make it more like Taiwan or HOng Kong gov’t system, there will still be like 600 millions china people living in poor rural areas in mass pollution and uneducated because of lack of access to good education.

          • mr. wiener

            Yes, there are actually 3 chinas. the first is Taiwan. the second is the eastern seaboard of the mainland. The third [and very third world at that] is the western interior and it’s billion inhabitants. How long they will wait patiently for their share of the pie remains to be seen.

          • Nanny Hiccups

            i wonder though, if china even needs a government like taiwan or hong kong to have a better quality of life. the western way of life is not the only way, the change needs to be in the value china places on the lives of its citizens.

          • linette

            mr. wiener, did you watch the olympics opening in London? What do you think. I thought it was cool. London is not bad at all. I think I saw your most famous expat Mr.Hugh Jackson on TV. Am I right? What wolverine is doing in Olympics? hahaha…

          • mr. wiener

            You get the government you deserve, or at least are prepared to put up with.

          • linette

            Nanny Hiccups
            Did you watch the london opening olympics? Awesome… :)

          • mr. wiener

            Missed it hon. I’ll have to see the replay today.

          • ddd

            @Alecks China’s economy will be slowing down in a couple of years. It won’t grow at the same rate as ten years ago.

        • But it’s still full of Mainlanders. That’s the biggest problem. Taiwan has a much better Taiwanese to Mainlander ratio.

          • Glen

            I completely agree that China a growing quickly, and for that I foresee several problems. Poorly regulated growth will cause serious growing pains. The concerns are all in appearance and numbers, and it’s only a matter of time before smoke and mirrors dissipate.
            On top of that is an economy that has grown much faster than a society. It is my belief that true change is intrinsic inner-change. And GDP numbers will not reshape a society.
            Growth is good, planned growth is better.

          • mr. wiener

            True dat.

          • linette

            Hong kong has a lot of mainlanders too. A lot of them marry in or come over just to give birth in the emergency room in HK hospitals so they can acquire citizenship(but the parents still live in China so they don’t have to pay hk gov’t tax but the child can use hk benefits)

            In HK now it’s like 3 out of 10 people are from mainland. Many don’t speak fluent Cantonese. While many many HK locals move away to Vancouver, San Francisco, or Toronto. It will be a different generation. :(

        • linette

          Alecks
          Money does not measure the quality of life. Having expensive cars, iphones, luxury skyscraper condos don’t give you freedom of speech, freedom to vote your own governor, universal healthcare, equal access to education FOR ALL CITIZENS.
          A country where only less than half of its citizens living luxuriously, and leaving the other half living in poverty without any access to the things I mentioned above such as a decent pollution free place to live. A country where the gov’t promote segregation system separating the rural poor from the urban rich. A system making sure that the poor will NEVER have ANY opportunities to rise from the bottom no matter how hard they work. The rural poor will never advance to college or getting college loans or gov’t education aid.

          Now why would anyone want to live in this kind of inequality society and gov’t?

          • Alecks

            I agree with you linette.
            People in Hong Kong had the same fears before 1997, and China has handled the HK transition fairly well. I have no reason to believe that they would not handle Taiwan in the same manner. If China were to take back Taiwan today, the only changes to everyday Taiwanese life would be the flag.

            I think economic freedoms are an important first step away from communism. Once the people are no longer reliant on the state for food and housing, the people are empowered. I believe other changes will come, whether the CCP are ready for them or not.

        • Glen

          I completely agree that China is growing quickly, and for that I foresee several problems. Poorly regulated growth will cause serious growing pains. The concerns are all in appearance and numbers, and it’s only a matter of time before smoke and mirrors dissipate.
          On top of that is an economy that has grown much faster than a society. It is my belief that true change is intrinsic inner-change. And GDP numbers will not reshape a society.
          Growth is good, planned growth is better.

        • Nanny Hiccups

          i don’t doubt the presence of technology, i mean quality of life. Is there happiness?

          • Alecks

            I don’t think there is any less or more happiness in China than any other country. Some will be happy with what little they have, while others will never be satisfied with all that they have.

            If you want to compare with Taiwan… Ok, maybe people in China are less happy because they cannot go into the street and openly curse their government, but at the same time, they are more happy because they never have to worry about Taiwan invading China.

          • linette

            Is there happiness?…

            Happiness is when you feel safe. When you know you are living in a society where you will not die of starvation because gov’t provide welfare to all poor. Will not be left without medical attention for simple treatable illness or injury because you can’t pay up front and there is healthcare for all.
            Happiness is knowing if you are smart, and you study hard, there is always a way to attend college to advance in life. There are gov’t aid or you can always get a student loan no matter your financial situation.

            I can go on and list all the great things about a good gov’t system and China gov’t system is none of that. China has a loooooooooong way to go…….

          • Chom

            Ironically, the quality of life in rural China is probably higher than in the cities. Go to bed at sunset, wake at sun rise, fresh vegetables, fresh meat, their own rice; it sounds tempting doesn’t it?

          • linette

            http://lesjoyeusesboucanieres.net/2011/03/01/china-pollution-threat-to-growth-by-leslie-hook/

            Which rural are you talking about? Are we talking about the same country?

          • Alecks

            linette, you are describing what happiness may mean for you.
            You should take a trip to China and see for yourself.
            I saw plenty of smiles and laughter when I went there. My friends there spoke of regular everyday things, and none of the worries you describe. It was no different than anywhere else I’ve been. I had to wonder where did the communism go?

            You should go visit and see the real China instead of describing the one you envision in your mind.

          • linette

            Alecks

            lucky you Alecks, you are the lucky 400+ millions residents of China living a happy urban life. Now look down below you. 600+ that don’t live a life like you.

          • Alecks

            No linette, I am a Taiwanese American that has not been brainwashed into thinking China is the “Great Evil” that will ruin everything in Taiwan. I really don’t think it’s a big deal. I think Taiwan would be strengthened with integration into China. I know how everyone in Taiwan looks down on everything China. I think there’s lots to be improved in China, but it’s not the “Great Evil” Taiwanese like to think it is.

            Frankly, I think they pull stunts like this flag thing for kicks and laughs rather than any official aim against Taiwan.

          • Chom

            @linette

            What has your link to do with anything? So there is pollution problem in China. You can’t conclude anything about peoples happiness based on this. You would have to ask them.

            Have you been to rural parts of China? I’ve been to many friends home towns. All their families seem happy to me!!

          • linette

            Alecks

            http://www.chinasmack.com/2008/stories/little-girl-stands-outside-classroom-window-every-day.html

            http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/09/27/2003514282

            something like this still happens often in rural China. And many more other story like starvation,people living in cancerous pollution environments, etc…

            It’s not as happy as you think. It’s nice that the people you spoke with are not from poor areas. They must be happy with their iphones and what’s the latest fashion to wear.

          • linette

            Chom

            people living in cancerous/ bacteria infested water/ chemical polluted environments = not safe.

          • Alecks

            Yes, linette, with 1.3 billion population, there will be some unhappy people somewhere. Just like there is in EVERY single modern society.

            Yes, pollution is a problem. I’m sure you can search and find articles about poor suffering people in every part of the world.

            If you sleep better at night thinking you’re happier than 1.3 billion people, ok fine.

          • linette

            Alecks and Chom,

            Read what the China segregation system is about.

            “She is the child of a peasant who migrated to the city for work, not a pupil of this area.”………

            They China education system of the city are saying she can’t attend their school.

            Read what one urban china Chinese is saying.
            ……….”Everyone has their own duty. The duty of a farmer is to cultivate the fields, his daughter should research how to cultivate fields. Studying is for us city dwellers, hehe.’..

            He is saying people who are poor peasants should not go to school and should continue to serve as poor servants. Unfortunately I do believe this is a common belief among the rich urban China Chinese people.

          • Chom

            @linette

            We can’t generalise based on a few stories on the internet. Not every rural part of China is cancerous/ bacteria infested water/ chemical polluted environments etc.

            I recommend you spend some time travelling around rural China.

          • linette

            Alecks,

            unhappy is an understatement.
            China is currently now one of the richest nation in the world. Don’t you think there are no excuses to have 600+ millions unhappy people.

            China can do better.

            They can do better if the people in power and the rich are willing to give up their power and create a better system for their people. The people in China too can have what HK and taiwan people have. Don’t you want that for them? It’s also good for us too. If they have what we have like good gov’t benefits, than they won’t keep trying to take ours without paying.

          • Alecks

            Yes linette, China has some serious problems.

            I think it’s ridiculous that people have an incentive to kill victims of car accidents instead of taking them to the hospital. It’s a shame that lives in China have less value than “things”. Pollution is a serious problem, laws are too lax. Food safety is a joke, and that needs to be seriously addressed.

            I had to dodge cars to cross the street in China instead of having the “pedestrian right of way”.

            China has some serious issues that need to be addressed. But…all this doesn’t mean people are unhappy. I saw the opposite. People were happy, not just with things they can buy, but also places they can visit, foods they can eat, people they can meet. China needs a lot of work, but the quality of life for many, is improving.

          • Chom

            @linette

            When talking about the education systme, we should look at the system. The government can’t control what every school does. If you can show me that the local government in that area has that policy then I will agree with you. As it stands it is one schol principal who didn’t allow that child into his school.

            About the attitudes of city residents towards rural people, I agree some have this attitude. This is a cultural problem, not a policy of the government right?

            Alecks has a point, with a population of over 1.3 billion everything SEEMS common. If I went to bar street in some city and saw several gay couples it might seem this is common in China, however that would not be accurate.

            I think Alecks would agree, we are not defending the Chinese government, we are just giving a different opinion. In fact I would guess Alecks like myself has many things he hates the government for. However just because we hate the government for something doesn’t suddenly mean China=Evil

          • linette

            ……..People were happy, not just with things they can buy, but also places they can visit, foods they can eat, people they can meet………

            行屍走肉. Those are the materialistic things enjoyed by urban china people only. The 400+ China urban people have no care in the world for the whole China gov’t and how it is being run. Why should they care? They are the better bunch.

            The saddest folks in China actually are the educated poor people. With all the education and knowledge they still feel helpless and hopeless in their society. These poor and educated folks are not family of any gov’t officials so they can’t hold any government high position. They are not rich so no connection to get a high position job. Connection is the key. Corruption is the gov’t officials. How sad. No wonder so many university student jump off buildings.

          • mr. wiener

            Alecks.
            Having a hissy fit every time someone pulls out a Taiwanese flag at a sports event sounds like more than someone doing it for shits and giggles. I still remember the time some Taiwanese computer geek won a starcraft comp in Korea [south].
            A Chinese official ran on stage pushed him over and confiscated the flag. That’s not the class clown, that’s the schoolyard bully.

          • linette

            Chom

            That is the policy of the education system. This is their segregation system separating rural from urban. I gave you the link already. Go read up and understand what is wrong with China system.

            http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/09/27/2003514282

            China wants to keep these poor people at the bottom and will continue to do so. They need them for cheap labor. It’s called exploitation.

        • hess

          Wow! CARS!? ELECTRONICS!? That sounds too good to be true mister!

    • Greg (the smart one)

      The next generation hate China in spades too. It won’t happen – this ‘reunification’ nonsense.

      It’ll will butthurt 1.3b mouthbreathers, but it is what it is..

  • Dat Ankle

    Good to the people that hanged up the flag on the statue.

  • Nick in Beijing

    Thanks for deleting my comment.

    Let me re-iterate: They are pussies bowing to pressure to remove the flag of Taiwan. Have to keep those business contracts flowing!

    • mr. wiener

      The british bulldog is but a toy poodle of its former self. That is the reality.

      • Nick in Beijing

        And a sad reality it is… Even coming from a yank.

        • mr. wiener

          I’m an Aussie, You mean coming from your good self?

  • eattot

    who cares, even let them hang 10 flags up, still can not get one gold medal,so what’s the deal?
    and who really needs them?they need mainland more, we want it back just in case it changed into japan and usa’s running dog.but seems already.

    • mr. wiener

      Always good to have a few running dogs around. You can put numbers on their backs and place bets.
      Who needs them? China needs Taiwan as much as Taiwan needs China. The equation has shifted since the early day ,but still remains the same : You need their investment and tech, they need your cheap labor.
      Tea break is over, back to work girl :)

      • eattot

        tech?hahaha, besides using our cheap labor i do not see any tech, sorry.
        we import tech mostly from west. invest, not sure…maybe…but not that much either…

        • hess

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Taiwan

          So I guess you don’t get anything from one of these companies?

        • Bo Xilai For Emperor

          More like stealing from West…or send their female hookers..hmm I meant spies to the West and sleeps with some old Euro trash to get the tech files and at the same time trying to get citizenship. Just like my wife Gu Kailai, from my knowledge she have slept with a Frenchman and an Englishman, but maybe more…

  • Freak on a Mountain

    1.) It’s just a flag. A piece of cloth flying in the wind. Don’t get your panties in a bunch.

    2.) Taiwan works like an independent country, but it really isn’t. Without Chinese cultural traditions, history, and language, it might as well be East Timor or Sri Lanka. Why is it not? China.

    3.) Taiwanese independence, as a cause, is as doomed as Tibetan or East Turkestani independence. The leaders of Taiwan know this, and are just trying to get the best deal. Doesn’t that sound somewhat Chinese to you, the whole ‘trying-to-get-the-best-deal’ thing? Seems like it’s almost a…. I don’t know….. NATIONAL characteristic?

    4.) Taiwan, we’re really sorry, but us Americans and Europeans can’t afford to care about you anymore. You’re mostly ethnically Chinese, you speak Chinese, and your culture, while more advanced in some ways, isn’t really all that different from the mainland. So, when the PRC tells us you belong to them, we tend to believe it, because we honestly can’t see the difference. You all speak the same language, eat the same exotic foods, and can’t stand in line, so you’re Chinese. Simple as. Democracy does not make as much of a difference as you might think. As soon as Taiwan reverts to aboriginal Taiwanese language and abandons all Chinese culture, Western countries might consider you to be a separate nation. But as long as you have your stupid money cats, your dangerous fireworks, your burning of money for the dead, your speaking of (bad) Mandarin, your statues of Guan Yu and Guanyin, your obsession with having sons, your consumption of endangered species for medicinal purposes, your lack of true innovation and love of imitation, well, then…..

    You are Chinese. Deal with it.

    • mr. wiener

      Actually the Taiwanese are pretty good at standing in line.But nitpicking aside you rational of language as a denominator of nationality don’t work if you consider America-England. Ditto for food and customs.
      I’m not a huge fan of Taiwanese independence, but I feel your thoughts on the matter are a little…casual?….throwaway?…Is somebody fwightened of the big scawy Chinese then?
      A sweetheart detail deal will be reached eventually. We got the moat, the HKers didn’t have one. So we agree on that, my main beef with your post is it reads like the Taiwanese are unreasonable [ungrateful?] for expecting or asking for western help.
      Also it smacks of appeasement.

      • Freak on a Mountain

        Appeasing whom? Assuming you refer to the 1.4 billion pound gorilla on your doorstep (also assuming you live in Taiwan), appeasement is a skill that you should learn well, since Western help will, my brother, not be forthcoming. There are no Western countries who even have the money to take on China if they wanted to.

        You don’t have to like it, but you have to accept it. Rather dying than surrendering is a dated concept. I wish Taiwan all the best, but it is a part of China, and the sooner it makes the deal, the better it’s hand will be. Delay, and Taiwan’s relative position will be weakened. HK and Macao showed wisdom and restraint, and as a result, retained many freedoms.

        And if you’re not frightened of the ‘big scawy Chinese’, then you are crazy or stupid. They are terrible to their enemies, as any number of people could tell you.

        • simon

          i have always been of the belief that American support for Taiwan has actually less to do with giving a damn about Taiwan and more about containing China.

          It’s purely a strategic interest, that is why America doesn’t really care to push the agenda of Taiwanese sovereignty, because it doesn’t give a damn.

    • Friend of Taiwan

      And Austria and Switzerland are German just because they share the same culture and language? Strange logic and completely imperialistic. Yeah, and what about seperate countries (!) such as North and South Korea, and what used to be East and West Germay. Yes, they were independent and autonomous countries. And if the Taiwanese government would have the guts to stand up for their autonomie they would have a chance to get acknowledged in all of the international bodies where the PRC is blocking them. The same PRC that is supporting a war criminal like Assad in Syria and re- colonizing most of Africa as we speak. What a distorted political opinion and what a dangerous attitude well in line with the brutal dictators in history, Stalin, Hitler and the likes. Claiming “shared cultural roots” is not enough for demanding ownership of any Nation or country that has decided to be a real democracy and to respect the human rights, which both the PRC openly is proud and repeatedly makes a point not to adhere to. It is frightening to realize that following the “cultural revolution” by Mao the PRC population actually has lost the Chinese culture (which you can still find in Taiwan, HongKong, Parts of Malaysia) and have replaced it with a pathological strive for world domination. Taiwan should be allowed to stand up for themselves and be proud of being a young and economically successful democracy. I am quit confident that Europe and the US still care and the PRC will not be able to continue their path like the past 10 years. With global recession and depression they are the first to find out! Good luck in times where the world will need to refocus on really important values – and that is not necessarily cheap crap “Made in China”. Good luck to th PRC in times when stealing IP will not be unpunished any more and real innovation and experience will be most important!! I will defend my freedoms, my legal system, my humanitarian ideals and my choices, and i would wish Taiwan would get back to doing the same for themselves. And sure, i would always support my government to help Taiwan in doing exactly that!!!!!

      • Freak on a Mountain

        Hey Friend-

        I’m a friend, too. I want Taiwan to be successful. But it’s inevitable that it’s going to be incorporated into the PRC. So why not get the best deal possible, and do it now? America will not come to save you if the mainlanders invade. Cut a deal with them.

        Also, remember that your democracy is very, very new. Before that, it was Jiang Kai-shek’s deplorable fascism. You fought hard, and beat the fascism, but now you must be wise and clever to keep your freedoms.

        Read more Sanguo Yanyi.

        • Friend of Taiwan

          From jiang kai-cheks facsist dictatorship, to KMT dictatorship, finally a short period of free elections and democracy ( yeah, maybe with leaders as corrupt as has been and as currently are), back to Mr. Ma’s KMT rule (still corrupt and mainly back to the beginnings), and now being traded to a neocapitalist and pseudo communist single party dictatorship of the CCP in the PRC on some kind of deal? I dont think so! I would argue that even KMT and corrupt Ma would be better than that move to CCP dictatorship with no more human rights or freedoms and with all economic surplus directly being re-routed to Beijing for support of their ambitious world domination scheme.

    • MKL

      Taiwan, we’re really sorry, but us Americans and Europeans can’t afford to care about you anymore.

      Speak for yourself, not for two countries! As far as I know, you’re not the spokesman for USA and EU. Your comment is utterly ignorant and flawed, I can see that you have no idea about what Taiwan is. How about paying the country a visit and reading some books on the topic?

      • Freak on a Mountain

        Well, MKL, since you’ve called me ignorant…

        You are correct. I’m neither the spokesman for the USA or the EU. By the way, the EU is not a country. So, pot calling kettle black aside, let’s move on.

        I have not been to Taiwan. I would love to go. My wife and I actually have plans to go to Kaohsiung next winter/spring; I’ve heard the countryside nearby is really nice for hiking. I have read numerous books on the subject. Scores. Plenty. I’m pretty well informed, having majored in Chinese history.

        And dismiss my Cassandra-like mumblings if you wish, but Taiwanese independence is doomed. I’m sorry. You can hold out nobly if you want to commit suicide, but Taiwan will be a part of the PRC eventually. All I’m saying is that Taiwan should try its best to get a good deal.

        • mr. wiener

          agreed.

  • Friend of Taiwan

    I am German and as an observer find it rather heartbreaking how the current Taiwnese Government of Mr. Ma seems to be kissing the feet of their aggressive and imperialistic cross strait neighbor, the politically communist and phenotypically neocapitalist new global bully, AKA as the Peoples Republic of China (PRC). Why would anybody in the free democratic world -including Taiwan for the time being – prefer a regime where a self acclaimed leading party is brutally exploiting and supressing their people over a system where freedom, justice and human rights are accepted principles? Shame on London and the UK to play the PRC game and tear the official Taiwan flag down! Yes, dont let Taiwan disappear – and get that flag back up!!

    • Zappa Frank

      you think germany would do something different? actually germany is the only european country with an active balance import/export from/to china. it means that china is one of its biggest customer. So you think germans would do something different than what english did?

      • Friend of Taiwan

        I am afraid the German government currently also seems to kiss butt of the PRC. However, they do talk about a lack of human rights in the PRC, just as of today they make public the constant violation of IP ( just happened the second time to Volkswagen and we have to fight a lot of PR Chinese espionage within our universities and research centers) and they become more realistic about the real face of that regime. The good news is, many even average educated people do have a strong sentiment for what is right and what is wrong and they all are afraid of hypertophic Nationalism and neo-imperialism based on the collective shameful experience in the Nation’s history. We do hear abot poor farmers forced out of their land and houses for the three gorges dam while the promised compesations are stuck in the corrupt administration and oponents to that injustice are being beaten to cripples when getting out from the local police station. We do remember tanks v/s students, the massacre on tian men square and we do hear what happens to Falung Gong members and in and buddhist monks in Tibet. This all is inhumane and we will prevent such system to try and rule the world, rest assured!!!! I am confident that as a Nation sensitized by its own painful history we do see the beginnings and we will find a way and to engage with similar minded allied nations to prevent a repetition of such mistakes. The example of the PRC vetoing any UN intervention with the massacres of another butcher like Assad in Syria are just one more proof of what mindset that Chinese government really has. This is not going unnoticed and you always meet twice in this world……

        • Zappa Frank

          the point is the realpolitik… China is getting bigger (despite some economic problems that are coming.. ). China is the second biggest economy in the world, who can really afford to piss them off? If you were a politician will you risk your economy for someone else flag?

          • tai wai

            the point is the realpolitik…

            It’s always hard to argue how things should be with how things really are. People don’t like to hear it.

  • glenn

    Why does the Chinese gov’t want everything done their way?

    And more surprisingly, why are the Olympic organizers quick to bow down and obey Chinese government’s politically motivated directive?

    Go Taiwan! To the Chinese gov’t, fix your country first before you go minding other territories.

    • tai wai

      Why does the Chinese gov’t want everything done their way?

      Because until very recently (on a China scale timeline), they always had done things their way. It is shameful to them that in the last century that they were weak compared to the West. That they were actually bullied. Now they’re regaining their strength, and being the bully themselves again.

      And more surprisingly, why are the Olympic organizers quick to bow down and obey Chinese government’s politically motivated directive?

      Same reason.

      • David

        Not always. At least not during the Song dynasty.

        • Lakeman

          David,

          Yes, you are right. China was weak during the Song period and didn’t have things done her way. There were also other times in the past when China couldn’t do much against outside powers because she was not an unified empire. There might have also been times in the past when China couldn’t have things done her way, even though she was an unified empire. However, I can’t remember all of the details at this moment.

  • Dr SUN

    I want to know which spineless prick removed Taiwans flag, what reason was given ?

  • juanchulo de cali

    如果一个党派是伟大的,他就不会怕别人反对。
    If a party was great/mighty, it would not be afraid of being opposed.

  • Friend of Taiwan

    Sdoes the PRC posture to become the “Fourth Reich”? Is it “today we conquer the South Chinese Sea, Hongkong an Taiwan, and tomorrow the whole world”? Folks, study some history and see what happened to th world exposed to and to the “Third Reich”! Pretty ugly prospect. I can see the symptoms and i am shocked about this outbreak of agressive and pathological Nationalism of thos people who claim “it all belongs to us and our way must be the right way”.

    Principiis obsta et finem respice -Resist the beginnings and consider the end, as already some politicians in the Roman Empire warned their fellow citicans…… I can only hope that the world will soon come to realization of what the danger is and that ther is more to be worried about than cheap stuff ” Made in China”, the bottom line or the profit. A sustainable society needs mor than one dimension, here profit. It als would be well advised to care for people ( and their dignity and human rights, which more than just feeding everybody, or at least almost everybody!) and our planet ( as in environment), for bothmof which the PRC absolutely has NO concern. Any form of society that is focused on profit (sure important, but not the only goal in life), people and planet will be sustainable and will provide humane and desirable living conditions for everybody. A dictatorship where a pseudo ” communist” party is actually acting as the biggest and most ruthless capitalist – as in the PRC – is not. This is actually the worst possible option for whoever is not privledged enough to be in the leading, governing class and their direct close beneficiaries. The rightless migrant workers who built the stadiums for the grand showcase Olympic Games in 2008 in Beijing (and the parallels to the situation of the Nazi showcase games in 1936 in Berlin are evident!) are the members of the newly defined enslaved working class as defined by Marx and Engels, the fathers of communism. They would be rotating in their graves with anger could they see how their philosophy is being abused in order to even more deprive workers of their rights and a life with dignity! Insidiis obsta! Wake up people, and rise from your naivte to believe ” the Chinese culture” is so passive and peaceful. Yes,,it is but dont forget that Mao has beaten exactly that culture out of the PRC citicens during the brutal so called ” cultural revolution”. It is not in place in that country and all you wiil discover is the celebration of brutal, early capitalism ( like the one Marx intended to fight) under the roof of communist party dictatorship – thenworst comination imaginable. So, The claim for Taiwan and forcing somebody to remove that flag in London is not the proble, it is one symptom of the underlying problem!!!!

    • Northerner

      I lived in China for more than half a decade in the run up to the Olympics there. And whilst your observations may seem alarmist and exaggerated I believe there is much in what you say. It was commonly believed, amongst most of my acquaintances at least, that once the Olympics were over-with there would be a sense of anti-climax after so many had worked so hard to put China on the world stage. This combined with impending economic decline and increasing social dissatisfaction would eventually lead to the government attempting increasingly drastic measures to instill and intensify nationalistic sentiment, probably ultimately leading to action/s against neighbouring countries. the first being Taiwan. The only hope to be drawn from this scenario was, as someone roughly put it, ‘the combined military technology used by The USA, Japan and ROC Army used to defend against a sea borne invasion of Taiwan would result in about 2 weeks worth of the opening 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan and would result in PLA casualties to such a degree that the government in Beijing would most likely be over-thrown.’ That is of course if a ‘conventional’ attack was made and if more extreme measures were not taken by The PRC in a blind attempt to save face.

      Removing the Taiwanese flag from Regent Street is no where near as idiotic as Chamberlain announcing ‘I believe it is peace for our time,’ but it is a step in the same direction.

  • 中華民國萬歲!

    • rolf

      wanna know why we taiwan still be bullied like this? cuz u mother dumb shit still think its republic of china. we aint china no more. shake that fuucking name off somewhere or shove up ur ass. taiwan is taiwan, and its a country. people in taiwan should stop kissing china big fat ass already

  • Hongjian

    Welp, that’s pretty much a dick move. Somehow I doubt that this was actually pressured by the PRC at all, seeing that even Hong Kong walked in the stadium with their own flag and team, labeled under Hong Kong, China.

    At the current political relationship between PRC and ROC, I very much doubt that the PRC would actually do something like this petty just to piss the ROC off. After all, some weeks before this, the PRC still asked the ROC for joint-statements about their common claims of the South China Sea, which was declined by the ROC – and ot the PRC, despite the fact that both sides established garrissons in the Spratley islands and defend their claims against all other non-chinese claimants in the region.

    This here is perhabs an action by the Olympic comittee themselves, without pressure or involvement of the PRC.

    • Nick in Beijing

      So basically what I got from what you said with your last comment about joint defense against non-chinese intervention are:

      1.Taiwan is an independent country that China needs to negotiate with.

      2. All ethnic Han are simply xenophobic against anything non-Chinese and therefore will set aside historical and ideological differences to make sure non of those damned dirty non-Han things get their hands on OUR (ethnic) CHINESE resources.

      Got it!

  • Kilkenny

    Actually I wonder why are you feeding the fat troll named Jin. I

  • Kilkenny

    I wonder why are you feeding the fat troll named Jin in every topic. He is a retard or (well, kinda doubt that) a PRC nationalist, which still is only a proof he is retarded.

  • Chico

    I have a pure Chinese blood, like totally 100% pure. But I hate China, so am I racist???

    I rather live in my country and be objected to discrimination than living in China (seriously you don’t want to have a Chinese name dangling in your ID when you apply for public university, scholarship). And it’s not like my country is super advance or anything. Its GDP per capita is just less than half of China’s! We don’t have MRTs, bullet trains or whatever skyscrapers just like in Shanghai. But the people in my country is much more civilised than the PRCs, hence making it a much better place than China.

    One thing for sure, Taiwanese are civilised therefore it’s a better place to live in (even Taiwanese are more organised than Singaporean, at least in MRT stations). And I kind of regret moving from Taiwan to China. Crap! I am stuck here.

    • Dr SUN

      Pure Chinese blood , whats that?

      the Mongolian, Manchurian, miao, Li, Naxi, Bai etc… or

      Or the mixed breed Han ?

      just wondering

      • Chico

        Both my grandparents are Han. They moved out from China back then. We don’t have any history of interracial marriage in the family that’s why I would say we are still pure Chinese.

        • Dr SUN

          so you are saying only Han are “pure blood”, that’s interesting.

          • Chico

            Oh I get your point, I am not used to this kind of Han/Chinese issue. Because when they talk about Chinese, they usually refer to Han; the majority. So that means I am a pure Han person.

          • Zappa Frank

            i think he’s point was that han are not a “pure” race, but mixed, there’s nothing like “pure” han, because they are all mixed.
            From my point of view is the same for any “race” in this world anyway…

          • mr. wiener

            only in the sense that the English are all “Anglo saxon” I guess.

      • Chico

        And we are old-school Chinese. We closely stick to the Chinese tradition. My mom cooks typical Chinese food at home. She can make rice dumplings (awesome ones), a skill that is lost to many Chinese when they move overseas. We go to the temple, we celebrate all Chinese festivals, eating the right food for each festival and still have the superstitions. You get my point :)

        • Thank you to you and your family for preserving the traditions that china so wantonly neglected and actively destroyed.

          My wife is half Taiwanese and speaks MinNanHua as her mother tongue but uses the Cantonese iteration of her family name because it demarks her as Hong Kongese instead of being mistaken for a mainlander.

          As for pure bloods, there’s no such thing in the world. Closest thing is like you mentioned with very traditional cultures.

          • Gaius Baltar

            Yeah, because cantonese names came from Hong Kong and not from Guangdong which is in, China, right?

  • B

    Some good post above and some really ignorant.
    Taiwan is a well working denocracy and lives up to all demands for being independent country. Flag, anthem, army, boarders, government, currency, passport etc . It is sad that such a great nation is constantly being bullied by China and prevented to be a part of the international community which they would very much be able to contributate too.

    Due too the bullying they are in the olympics forced to compeat under 1 : humiliating name 2: humiliating flag.
    However this is limited to the actual competition , the issue with the flag here is that it was together with the rest of the worlds nations hung on the streets of London. With other words the bully rules layed down by China does not have effect there. How London wants to decorate their streets is not up to China to decide , or is it ? Apparently yes.

    However as much as I dislike Londons actions the consequence is 1 : The mighty Chinese empire show to the world how small weak, arrogant and childish they are, a little flag scares them so much.
    2: It strenghens the national pride of the , brings the people together and further feeds the dislike of China.
    3: Sellout President Ma who
    brags about better relations with China through his policy , his approval ratings keeps falling as he does not dare to speak out for the nation of Taiwan and shows how weak he really is, aswell his “better relationship policy” is proven to only work in one direction , that is Ma government kowtowing to Beijing , while Beijing gives nothing in return , not even a little flag spot on the steets of London.

    So overall keep doing your thing China you just remind the Taiwanese people that they are better off without you and that they are very much different from you, for the better if you ask me, a whole lot better.

  • Bo Xilai For Emperor

    From my perspective, you stupid commie supporters from China needs to know only one thing..Hu Jintao isn’t ruling Taiwan, last time I checked from history, Taiwan (ROC) still have their own election and own president, you stupid commie folks can speculate and wet dream about taking over a free country (with proper ideology) all you want, you still will be taken over by an army of my African Brothers, we are the new power in China. Take that!!! (We are already Chenguan, one day you all will salute to us)

    • Dr SUN

      If it comes from the mouth of Bo Xilai, it must be true !

      btw how’s the wife doing, now shes been formally charged with murder ?

      • Bo Xilai For Emperor

        I just can’t get over the fact that my dear psycho wife have been making me a cuckold by sleeping with multiple men, I feel so worthless that I needed to start my own cult personality so that I can one day have all the dirty, slutty slores from all four corners of China to be in my bed all night singing my “red china” anthem while drinking my 1,000 dollar a bottle champagne. I think my wife will be tortured the same way I did to some dirty Chinese actresses….

  • Freak on a Mountain

    To tell the truth, Taiwan’s situation reminds me of Texas. It used to belong to some other folks, and then the Americans came in and took control of large amounts of land. Then it became an independent Republic of Texas, which didn’t last long. Then it became part of America.

    True, there are some in Texas who would like to reinstate the Republic of Texas. They will always lose. Taiwan is in the same predicament. You can fight the inevitable, but you will lose. Do the people of Taiwan not think they are Chinese? Do they not speak Guoyu? Do they not know that their grandparents’ graves are in Jiangxi, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Fujian, et. al.?

    I respect the Taiwanese who want independence, but I’m a realist. They’re not going to keep it. Better to deal with the PRC now, from strength, then a few years later, from relative weakness.

    Also, Taiwanese people, have you not thought about changing the system from within? It worked for Texas (to the woe of the USA), but they stamped Texas values all over American politics, so that every president has to be a believing Christian, tax increases are impossible, ‘you’ll pry this gun out of my cold dead hands’, 4 out of the last eight presidents have been Texan, and Texas remains a growing economy, unlike most states. Think about it. It might work. And with far better results than when the US absorbed Texas.

  • S

    I saw Chinese Taipei in the Olympics and I’m like, why can’t they use Taiwan instead?? Now I know why.. Well, I’m surprised China didn’t try to take over Singapore.. giving that they think any country whose majority is Chinese belongs to them.

    • Friend of Taiwan

      That would be right down their alley of “world domination”. Great suggestion for the Beijing rulers and i am sure Singapore is already high up on their list…..

  • Alecks
    • tai wai

      “They do not want to sacrifice their lives for sovereignty,” Chang said of the findings.

      Then they will reap what they sow. Change does not happen without blood.

      Maybe it’ll be up to the US to bleed for them. It’s tough being the good guy.

  • Tommy

    Taiwan is Taiwan,China is China,one Taiwan one China,Ma is very weak and say nothing against China,all he do is kiss there balls.

  • Misiooo

    Shame.

  • Capt. WED

    @Tai Wai

    I’m not going back to respond to each & every one of your replies. I’m just gonna say:

    *Stop skipping around my main point. The system is inconsistent. It doesn’t matter how you pick & choose.

    *blah blah

    *Americans bleed 4 taiwan. LOL. You are in the minority here. No Americans wants fight for taiwain. WHY??? So yeah Tai Wai let’s skip around that fact. Is this how you choose who is equal?LOL. When they agree with you it’s equality, when they don’t it’s MY WAY BITCH! HAHAHAHA.

  • Koreansentry

    Taiwan should stop using “Chinese Taipei” to represent their country @ Olympic.

    • It would be fantastic if Taiwan hosted the Olympics. It’d be interesting to see how the flag thing played out then.

  • rickbabyon

    Chinese Taipei is a ludicrous name for the Taiwanese team, surely the athletes are from other cities like Kaohsiung and Taichung. Typical logic from one of the last communist countries in the world, the new centre of rampant capitalism. I guess geography is as flexible as politics and economics.

  • Pingback: Taiwanese Cyber-babe and Sometimes God Team Up to Save Flag and Olympic Dream – 臺灣的國旗在倫敦 | SparkJam()

  • David

    Interesting discussions that have been going on here in this post. I guess I am a bit late discovering this particular post. Sometimes, it just seems that you can’t avoid politics, even in Olympics. Btw, regarding the history of Taiwan, it was occupied first by the Aborigines, then the Dutch, and then the Han Chinese. Though there are disputes as to whether the Han people know about the island back in the 3rd century AD and whether any interaction has taken place.

    • David

      I forgot to add that from what I have heard, I don’t think this thing has given rise to further incidents, given that this sort of thing has happened before. Sure, many people in Taiwan are angry, but this is not the first time the CCP has done something this stupid. Also, given the flag still represents the ROC, I am not sure if independent movement supporters really care about the flag itself. They more than likely just don’t like the fact that China is disrespecting the Taiwanese people.

  • Twind

    Hmmm…. A complicated thing indeed. Though I do see many fascinating discussion here. Anyway, not sure if there is much more to add to the discussion given that it is an old thread. But given that PRC’s claim over Taiwan and the current ROC government also claims that they represent China, it is a difficult situation. But at least many of the Taiwanese people I know don’t believe in this one country thing. Oh well, who knows what will happen in the future.

  • The Truth

    I understand how the Taiwanese feel. The Han Chinese have spent centuries attacking neighbor countries under the fake claim of “Uniting Kingdoms”. The citizens in those invaded areas, braiwashed to call themselves Chinese while carrying communist issued birth certificates describing them as “Ethnic”.
    Taiwan is an independent country and always will be, diplomacy at an international level handles the communist claims gently and politly but if Taiwan was attacked, the communists forces would be destroyed with very little hesitation. The same will happen if the communist try to actually take control of islands located in Vietnames waters, Phillipino waters etc. The next big humiliation is just around the corner but it is coming. I have visited Taiwan, very nice people, nothing like the communists. I loved the expression in Taiwan aimed at mainland communist males ” You can put a nice suit on a man, but that does not mean he is educated or honest”.

    • linette

      ………… I loved the expression in Taiwan aimed at mainland communist males You can put a nice suit on a man, but that does not mean he is educated or honest”…………………

      That can only be applied on those china men who were brain washed since birth with communist teaching in China public school. The worst ones are those who are rich or China gov’t officials. They are rich and corrupted with communist thinking. They are the rich peasants.

      Yet I know plenty nice China people men and women and they are not china city folks. They are not officials and not rich. They are nicer and kinder. I am more than happy to deal with those people.

  • davd c.

    This is again a very complicated and sensitive issue. As someone who has lived in Taiwan for many years in the past, and who continues to pay attention to the affairs of that place, I do understand many Taiwanese’s point of view. This is a place that has been through quite a bit of history, from native aborigines to small Chinese pirates settlement, then Spanish (very briefly) and Dutch (more substantial) rule with more Han immigration, and up to the Ming loyalist occupation. Up to this time, none of these entities managed to have full control over the island, including the native Middag Kingdom. It was not until later through the development by governments like the Qing, the Japanese, and the KMT and the DPP that we are able to more or less witness the Taiwan of today. Therefore, Taiwan’s history is definitely more complicated than what some of the first and recent posters are saying (it is very difficult to determine which groups arrived at Taiwan first among the non-native people). These days, the status of the island is a result of WWII and the Chinese civil war. Most Taiwanese, especially the younger generation desire independence. However, given the pressure from China, surveys have shown that most people prefer the status quo. In many ways, Taiwan is more “traditional” than China. Some older mainlanders in Taiwan that I know still believe that Taiwan is the true China, as they carry the real Han heritage (I have also seen some youngsters believing in this). In the end, it is difficult to say what will happen. Most recently, things have become calmer with the 2 sides, in spite of this incident here. President Ma has argued for “One ROC and Two Areas”, which is a way of still arguing for the ROC as a legitmate government of “China”. Of course he received heavy criticisms from the DPP and many many other people. Nonetheless, if China does attack Taiwan (which I don’t believe will happen anytime soon), they will more than likely succeed. I am not sure if the U.S. is really willing to go to war with China over Taiwan. Either way, wars would certainly be bad for Taiwan. I can only wish the people of Taiwan the very best.

    Btw, regarding Han expansion, they are not the only ones expanding throughout the centuries, they were invaded too, as China’s last dynasty attests. As for the Taiwanese, a huge number of them (not everyone of course) do have Han heritage. Therefore, I don’t think this is really an ethnic issue. Though it is true that some Taiwanese will not see themselves as the same ethnicity as the Chinese, at least from what I understand, most of them still do. It’s just that most of them don’t see themselves as belonging to the same country as China.

    • Lakeman

      davd c.,

      I agree with your post quite a bit, however, I do think that among all the people you mentioned, the local aborigines certainly did arrive at Taiwan first. But I think the han chinese did come second, and then followed by other foreigners, dutch, spanish, japanese…etc. of course, as you said, sometimes it is very difficult to determine who went to taiwan first. but still, i think we can safely say that there were a small number of han immigrants moving to Taiwan prior to other foreigners. yes, i do know the dutch created the 1st formal gov’t in Taiwan. but when it comes to just people, i think the han chinese was 2nd behind the local aborigines among all human groups in moving to Taiwan.

      • Lakeman

        davd c.,

        I forgot to mention the portuguese in my remark to you. yeah anyway I realize how complex this history is now. i still think there were a small group of han chinese who got to Taiwan before the Europeans and other foreigners did, including the portuguese, who supposedly discovered Taiwan first among all Europeans. But then again, as I said, the first formal gov’t was probably the dutch gov’t. I think the dutch played a more significant role than the spanish, that’s why they were considered to have formed the 1st formal gov’t.

        I will say that the han chinese were 2nd behind the local aboriginies in moving to Taiwan, ahead of all other foreigners, including the portuguese, dutch, spanish, japanese or whoever. though as i said again, I think the dutch build the 1st formal gov’t. Also there is the question how do we count who is the first settlers? Pirates or small number of immigrants, like merchants, workers and labors, fisherman, farmers, adventurers, or whoever, do these people count? Or does it have to be an actual group of people who formed a gov’t? And does the local aboriginies kingdom of middag, does that count as a formal gov’t? It seems to me a lot of people still consider the dutch to have the 1st formal gov’t in Taiwan.

        By the way, among the Europeans, did the dutch came to Taiwan first or the spanish, or the portuguese? Again this goes back to my earlier point of what constitue a legimate kind of immigration? Though it is true that the dutch did establish their rule first than the spanish, I think. Well, all is too complicated. I think I need to do more research. But my tentative position is that just counting people alone without any major gov’t organizatons, then the han chinese was the 2nd group of people who reached Taiwan after the local aborigines. Other foreigners, no matter where they came from, came to Taiwan after the han chinese. But if we’re talking about the 1st gov’t, that’s another matter. However, it is true that no gov’t or entity before the Qing had really full control over the entire island. But yeah, I really need to do more research in order to reach a more sounding position.

        • davd c.

          @Lakeman

          I just saw your reply, and I think you are probably correct. I think you would agree with me that this issue is complicated. There is certainly a lot more to be learned about this issue. However, like you said, I think we can tentatively say that the Han Chinese were the second group of people behind the Native Aborigines to have settled in Taiwan. The question of what kind of “government” or settlement did the first group of Han Chinese set up in Taiwan requires further research. In addition, how did the Han Chinese interact with the Native Aborigines back then? Did the Han Chinese share the same settlement with the Native Aborigines? Whatever the case may be, I do think after the Native Aborigines (a very diverse group of people), a small number of Han Chinese became the second group of people to have immigrated to Taiwan, before any other groups from any other areas.

    • KMT Guy

      There is only one China and that’s the Republic of China.

  • Lakeman

    Agree with most of the posts here…. i have talked to many people about this topic, and most of them felt pretty similar. as someone who has lived in this place for most of his life, I do want my peple to do well…. China as someone else said is such a weird place with so many ridicluous things. But then again, i been to other places and saw some very odd things too, so perhaps china is not the only place that’s like that. anyway, as a Taiwanese, i hope the Taiwanese strait will be peaceful, time will tell.

    • Lakeman

      oh i forgot to add that yeah i myself is also not very happy with what has been done here. but that’s the way how things are i suppose. Anway, don’t know if there is any other way of doing it, but given China’s problems, food safety, politics, weird stories everyday about homicide, strange death…etc. Not a wonderful place. But I did see similar things in other places as well, so again maybe China is not that unique, things only happen in a stronger degree. I don’t know, I only want to pray for the safety of Taiwan.

      peace.

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