Taiwan President: Mainland China is Still Our Territory

taiwan-president-ma-ying-jeou-roc

From Phoenix Online: 

[Taiwan President] Ma Ying-jeou: Mainland China Remains Our Territory, Cross-Strait Relations is Not International Relations

Taihai Net October 18th report — According to a report on the MSN website, Ma Ying-jeou expressed for the first time during his “Double Ten Report” that “cross-strait relations is not international relations”, and that the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) often treats cross-strait flights like American domestic flights. Ma Ying-jeou stressed on the 17th that according to the “Republic of China constitution”, “mainland China is still our territory, therefore the relationship with the mainland cannot possibly be international relations, but rather a special relationship.”

During a meeting with Wyoming governor Matt Mead on the 17th, Ma expressed that it was already established 20 years ago that cross-strait flights are “not international flights, nor domestic flights, but a special flight route,” enabling both sides to use this foundation to quickly promote/improve relations, and for people on both sides to obtain benefits they did not have before.

Ma Ying-jeou believes current strait relations in its most stable and peaceful in the past 60 years.

Comments on Phoenix Online:

凤凰网广东省深圳市网友:

Since it isn’t international relations, then just what is the relationship? There is only one China in the world, and this is a general and mutual consensus. It is also the consensus of people across the strait. So please, Ma Ying-jeou, just what is the relationship between Taiwan and the mainland? Isn’t it time you gave a clear answer?

凤凰网中国网友:

Hope Taiwan will quickly reclaim its occupied/enemy-held territory.

凤凰网上海市网友:

The mainland has since antiquity been an inseparable part of China.

凤凰网上海市网友:

The Diaoyu Islands belongs to us, the and the islands of Japan also belongs to us.

凤凰网上海市网友:

I welcome Taiwan and the Mainland hold elections, and whichever wins will unify the other!

凤凰网广东省深圳市网友:客观10000

After China becomes a true superpower, first thing is to reclaim Taiwan.

凤凰网江西省南昌市网友:

Good, as long as Taiwan recognizes that it is part of China. As for whether it is the People’s Republic of China or the Republic of China, those are political questions and not our ordinary common people’s concern. As for who is the rightful ruler [government], that is also not something we have control over.

凤凰网北京市崇文区网友:damao0277

Of course the mainland is our territory; it is the territory of all Chinese people.

凤凰网北京市网友:

Support the glorious return of the Nationalist Army.

凤凰网中国网友:

Provincial Governor Ma, Taiwan is the territory of the Chinese people, and the mainland is not Taiwanese territory!

凤凰网福建省厦门市网友:

The people of the Mainland long for President Ma to come liberate us!

凤凰网陕西省西安市网友:

On Taiwanese maps, Mongolia still belongs to China.

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  • Riddler

    True true.

    by the way. Sofa!

    • loki

      I don’t get the who simply writing “Sofa?” not much effort being put into your posts..

      • Riddler

        And your post inspirational?

  • Don’t Believe the Hype

    A map of the Nationalist government of Chiang Kai-Shek once contained a picture of mainland China. Therefore mainland China is the legitimate territory of the Nationalist government, this is the general and mutual consensus of everyone on earth. In other news, the Mongolian conquerer definitely doodled a sketch which contained huge swaths of mainland Chinese territory, therefore the Mongolians are the rightful and legitimate rulers of China according to law. Also a recently uncovered coloring book of former Japanese emperor….

    • Riddler

      “Also a recently uncovered coloring book of former Japanese emperor….”

      Excellent…hahaha

    • Cauffiel

      I was really stunned when I read about the coloring book of the Japanese emperor a few months ago. Really fascinating stuff.

      • Claude

        OK, this is a put on? This is where rumors start, right here and now, ground zero of a hoax. Right?

        • Cauffiel

          No, you can read about it here: http://lemonparty.org/

          • Claude

            Bahahaha !!! You fucker! Funny!

            The thing is you just never know, weirder things have happened in Japan. Rumor has it the Japanese prince’s sperm count was so far down and they royal couple couldn’t conceive so they had to have the emperor step in with his sperm (yeah, grandpa) and inseminate princess Masako (I assume artificially) to continue the royal bloodline and the weirdness of it all caused her nervous breakdown. The poor girl hasn’t been the same since.

            The story’s I can tell about ole Nihon. Sometimes things get pretty funky to the point I know longer know what to believe.

          • mr.wiener

            O.k could you take that one down for me? I don’t think we’re allowed to put links to porno sites here, particularly of geriatric men screwing each other….I’m going to go and find some bleach to pour in my eyes and I don’t want to see it there when I get back.

          • Cauffiel

            I don’t know how. Whenever I delete comments it leaves them posted and labeled as “Guest.” You can delete it though.

            Anyway, if you don’t know Lemon Party, where ya been?

          • Cauffiel

            Oh, it worked.

          • Riddler

            Talking to yourself is NOT healthy.

          • Riddler

            I’m trying to take a few of mine down. They stay as ‘guest’. Sorry for lapsing again but trying to be positive.

        • Shi Bob

          i hope you’re joking

          • Claude

            Just let me have fun with this, dude. I can’t endure another “debate” on Taiwan belongs to China or in this case, vice versa.

          • Shi Bob

            agree

      • Alice S

        I was amazed too. So enlightened. I didn’t know he was so immature.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

        **breaking news**

        Ancient map discovered, dated 2,080 BC:

        • Nessquick Choco

          Please find the one, where dinosaurs was ruling :-)))

        • Cauffiel

          They never could push past the Persians. Still…. a wondrous empire in its day.

        • Miniluv101

          Just wait until we Swedes dig up the old maps of Atlantis you dirty Homo Sapiens!

    • chosan

      long live the PROC. Peoples Republic Of China

      • Riddler

        Long live people.

      • chinese

        why no news on terrorist attack on

        Tiananmen

        square?

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          If you’ve followed CSmack you’ll notice that these stories usually take a few days to come out. Be patient.

        • http://www.technologyreview.com/news/519421/the-first-carbon-nanotube-computer/ MrC

          what? some pissed off wiger drove a car into some people and it caught fire. woopy do.

        • Riddler

          What are the chances it was a terror attack? Probably just another case of shitty driving. This is now going to become a trend, any car accident caused by retarded drivers will be labelled as a terror attack. Very easy. The accused will never have an opportunity to defend himself in court, and the cops can just pick off any Uyghur they like any time there is a crash.

      • TheSOP

        Long live the STD infested pedophile republic of Mao! No not really, hope the Republic of Taiwan liberates those poor saps.

        • chosan

          Taiwanese are sensitive to the English Language. They know what ROT also means. especially to the hyper sensitive bannanas

          • TheSOP

            ROT is what your pedophile god Mao is doing in glass case in Tiananmen.

    • the ace of books

      It’s a pretty common rule of countries: every country wants to be what it was at the historical height of its power.

      • Nessquick Choco

        seems, that we have to reclaim half the Europe back, as our former king Charles IV was the ruler of roman empire for some long years … Yeah, give us back Italy and Germany !

        • Germandude

          Well if you come like that, I think the only real map, showing the true borders of Europe is the one from summer 1942. Puh!

          • Nessquick Choco

            Oh, that,s hurt :-)))
            Btw, I will be hapier as citizen of Germany , in actual situation … Can you reclaim back my town please ? Georgswalde, just beside of Ebersbach/Neugersdorf. We was mostly german speaking before WW2 :-) My grandpa came there after “liberation” :-)
            Please, ask Angela do it quickly :-)

          • Germandude

            The only thing I would like to ask Angela is if she could put a bullet into her head.
            I just checked your hometown. Damn, that’s close to the border…

          • Nessquick Choco

            In the times, we almost shared the trainstation :-)

          • Nessquick Choco

            Ok, after Angela is done with bullet, who will help me ? :-)

          • Germandude

            Son, have you considered the path of Jesus Christ?

          • Nessquick Choco

            Yeah, Lord is the only one, who can help me, beside of myself.

          • Germandude

            The Lord doesn’t know any boundaries. In god’s eyes, there is no border between countries. Pray for Jesus and mother Theresa 3 times today and a virgin shall appear to you in your barber shop close-by. She will lead you the path to cross the border from the Czech Republic to Germany. If you don’t touch the virgin, you will end up in heaven. Touch her, and you will end up in hell (which is eastern Germany of course).

          • chosan

            Jesus is coming back as a genetically enginneered super clone. Mark my word the USA has this capability now

          • Nessquick Choco

            No, he is in the UK already, its the fresh father of small George :-) Didn’t you know about it ? check it, his face is 99% authentic with, I cant remind now what is name of piece of cloth from Italy …

          • Germandude

            Blasphemy!!! Only true-believers will be enlightened by god’s wisdom. Voters of the Republican party will be regarded as non-believers and face the same penalty as Jerusalem.
            Genetical engineering is regarded as an offense to god’s perfectionism. Consider yourself educated.

          • Nessquick Choco

            :-))))) Virgins are boring, let’s go to heaven

          • Germandude

            Son, virgins are not boring. Ask any priest close-by. lol

          • Shi Bob

            u mean ask any little boy

          • Germandude

            The boys are likely to lie. Priests however, connected to their religious believes are bound to speaking the truth. That’s religious 101.

          • Shi Bob

            actually, i meant to say, for virgin boys, you should ask a priest.

          • Germandude

            holy shit, I just spilled my coffee. You asshole ;-)

          • Shi Bob

            I would prefer the Germany of Teutoberg Forest when they had just crushed an entire Roman legion and the “Germanics” were still free and their forests not yet cut down.

          • Germandude

            The forrests are not cut down. Still around 32% of Germany are covered by forrests. Especially Teuteburger Forrest.
            We like to play hide-and-seek in there.

          • Shi Bob

            yes, germany is still very green which is why it’s one of my favorite places

          • mr.wiener

            More like hide-and-go-shriek.

          • donscarletti

            I think your neighbours to the west would refer you to a map dated 1812 as being far more authoritative.

          • Germandude

            Everybody knows that Napoleon was a hoax in the sense that it never happened. How are french armies supposed to move forward as they only know the other direction?

          • mr.wiener

            Good thing he had Prussian infantry and Polish cavalry.

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        yeah but they usually don’t whine about it as much

        • the ace of books

          You’re speaking to a Hungarian here. Say what now?

          See also: “Big Hungary” and “Nem Nem Soha”. I get enough of this from my relatives that I fall into “uh-huh, s’nice” mode automatically when they bring it up. Far easier than the shitstorm disagreement brings.

          • Shi Bob

            egeshegedre!

    • narsfweasels

      Oh, sorry, that “evidence” has been discredited: just this morning in the ruins of the Summer Palace a fresco finger-painted by the 5-year-old Emperor Wang of the Tang Dynasty clearly shows that Japan, Taiwan and in fact everything ever belongs to China. Especially the toys. Those in particular belong to China.

    • Shi Bob

      i drew a map declaring myself hegemon of the world once!

      • David

        It is only legit if it had cool pictures (and dragons in the oceans)

  • Jin

    Lol, so if the netherlands had a map of the whole world which is colored. Than it;s from them? hahaha The fact is that China is recognized as a country by the whole world, formally. –> in reply of “dont believe the hype”

    • TheSOP

      A country established by a balding STD infested pedophile like Mao? Ewwww, lets hope the Taiwanese liberate those poor saps soon!

  • Cauffiel

    Hahaha…. oh my goodness. This is like a bad divorced couple.

  • Tova Rischi

    Any armchair political analysts want to give their opinions of how things should go down?

    I think China should look into the idea of a more federalized/decentralized government (that primarily exists to deal with broad crises such as North Korea’s imminent collapse or solving the Diaoyu affair, or to stamp out low level corruption), as a way to deal with not only with Taiwan reunification but the situations in Tibet and Xinjiang, and to preserve the freer characters of Hong Kong and Macao. Of course, such a thing would not be possible unless the Mainland both really cracks down on corruption and would allow free and open elections with competing candidates.

    So something that will probably never happen, at least not until the Internet generation becomes geriatric, and even then, very doubtful. Such is life I suppose.

    • Kai

      Should? Or likely?

      There’s a lot of factors involved here and it all ties together. I’ll write most of the following with the assumption of peaceful reunification and not military takeover.

      The hope of those interested in reunification is that China’s political system will evolve to a point where the two govenrments can ideologically and politically entertain unification, merging, whatever you want to call it. Taiwan’s government wants to protect the interests of its de facto constituents, and the current government in the mainland isn’t seen as being able to credibly respect and protect those interests, so reunification isn’t possible.

      Political change or reform in China is in turn predicated on socio-economic reform and China has a lot of catching up to do with Taiwan in this regard. Taiwan has a couple of generations on the mainland and the results are evident enough for Taiwanese people to look down on mainlanders. People don’t usually want to unify with people they look down upon. Mainland society needs to reach some sort of parity with Taiwanese society in a variety of measures. Money, purchasing power, living standards, as well as social norms, expectations, and habits will need to become more similar than they are now.

      This is going to be tough for mainland China, but not impossible. Taiwan is a small island country with barely more population to educate and govern than the city of Shanghai. China is huge and while its scale and population has advantages, it also has many disadvantages, just like small companies versus big companies. China’s working on it, and while there’s plenty of mainland urban residents who are just as well-to-do and sophisticated as many Taiwanese people, and just as there are many Taiwanese people who are as rural, backwards, and uncouth as the mainland’s peasants, China has an awful lot of peasants. She needs to bring all of them up and have a larger “middle class” that in turn sets the bar on social norms.

      Working towards mainland China’s advantage is a sense of inevitability, that a country of such size and population should be able to be a superpower with all its attendant benefits, especially if it was one before. This is attractive. Most people enjoy belonging to and identifying with a larger group that commands power and glory. It’s basic human vanity. As developed as Taiwan can become, it is nevertheless constrained as a small island. Technology can compensate for certain things but generally land and natural resources still matter. China has these. There’s a difference between being proud of being better than mainlanders and being proud of being part of a country that is a superpower in the world. It’s similar to the difference in patriotism between Candians and Americans. Many Canadians fashion themselves as better than Americans in many ways, but they don’t feel the same sort of pride that Americans can in being at the top of the heap in so many ways. Jokes abound.

      What’s holding back reunification is what the people in Taiwan can accept. They can’t accept it right now–and for good reason–but maybe they will when mainlanders are in most observable ways living lives that are as good or even better than their own, and especially if the political government in the mainland is no longer as potentially hostile to their rights and interests.

      Working against those interested in reunification is the diverging of identities. The people in Taiwan may recognize they have their roots in China but the longer you are apart, the farther you may grow apart until it is conceivable that your identities are no longer reconcilable. Each subsequent generation will feel the tie to China less and less and that’s arguably true today as various polls generally show a trend of adopting a distinct Taiwanese identity rather than a general Chinese identity. Of course, these polls are influenced by the social prejudices and tensions of the hour but it’s a proven historical sociological phenomenon as well.

      If China can catch-up and surpass Taiwan in socio-economic factors and evolve a government seen as credible to the Taiwanese people, can these things overpower the divergence in more amorphous notion of identity? Will Taiwanese people then see the advantages of being part of a larger China outweighing the disadvantages of having less self-governance? There are ideals but people are overall very practical. If you want to stereotype the Chinese, you can say they’re very practical as well. They can have immense pride in their Chinese heritage but poof, immigrate to another country and take up foreign citizenship. These are all considerations.

      Hong Kong and Macau didn’t have a choice. Taiwan does. Things have changed for HK and Macau, some for the better, others arguably for the worse. They are in some ways and often expressly said to be pilot programs, examples for how reunification with Taiwan might proceed or be realized. Those interested in reunificaiton in Tawan are watching and while there’s a lot of discouraging developments in HK and Macau since their handover, there’s still that pressing sense of inevitability. Taiwan can either become part of a rising superpower or it might eventually be sidelined by it if they hold out, ultimately forced to resign themselves into being bit players on the world stage.

      That might be enough for the population of Taiwan then. But it might not be. It’s hard to say.

      I don’t like most discussion about a mainland military takeover of Taiwan because I see it as something that would only happen if a shit ton of things went wrong requiring a shit ton of people to be willfully stupid. I will say that Taiwan wouldn’t stand a chance on its own and I wouldn’t bet on the US defending it if push came to shove. What’s holding back reunification through this method is the people and government of mainland China. Don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty of ignorant chest-beating bluster, but the people know it’s the worst way to bring Taiwan back into a larger China. Yeah, maybe in the face of obviously insurmountable odds the Taiwanese will surrender without much bloodshed, but an deeply unhappy resentful “province” that had way more international de facto recognition and support than Xinjiang or Tibet will be a mighty huge pain in the ass to placate and integrate. Taiwan isn’t a largely socio-economically undeveloped territory. It’s not as easy to buy and wait for people to grow into your system, so it has to be “won” over so much more.

      Those are some of the issues I think relevant to the dynamic. The wisest course of action at this point is indeed to maintain the status quo, see how things develop over time, and let the future decide if they want to pull the trigger on either reunifying or officially declaring formal separation.

      • Elijah

        A very well thought out and written thesis/theory.

        Now, bring on the chest-beaters…

      • mr.wiener

        Interesting to note the Tai ke, which was originally a derogatory name in Taiwan [Country bumpkin] have in recent years come into their own as people of some new wealth who like a bit of bling and a good time. They have now turned the word around and take pride in as meaning people who are not as polished and urban as city folk, but are more forthright and honest.

  • Butsu

    I have yet to meet any Taiwanese person in my age-group that actually likes Ma or the KMT. Now I don’t have that many Taiwanese friends, but they and my gf is all in favor of a “Taiwan is Taiwan” and “China is China”, and they should just give up on the “China is still ours” mumbo jumbo.

    Anyone wanna give me some more insight? I find this subject highly interesting.

    • linette lee

      Most Taiwanese see China and Taiwan as two separate countries. With separate gov’t. I prefer them to stay separate at least for now. Both countries do have close relationship because of common heritage. I never consider Taiwan Chinese the same as China Chinese. I know they do have different politics and they grew up under a different gov’t system and education. They are different. Not that one is better than the other, but I feel more related to the Taiwan Chinese because we have more in common in terms of political views and growing up in similar education standard. At least that’s how I feel when I interact with them. And I think majority of hkese feel the same way. With China Chinese I sometimes get a cultural shock when I talk to them or interact with them. I am still learning to understand them. I am sure many Taiwan Chinese feel the same way. We just need to communicate more.

      • Butsu

        Thank you for your answer, and I can only speak from what my girlfriend tells me, and what the sometimes awkward situations I’ve happened to be mixed up in while studying with people from Taiwan, Hong Kong and mainland China when I lived in Japan. So what you’re saying is not that new to me.

        So Linette, do you think Hong Kong and Taiwan would be better off if they were completely seperated from China? Or do you like some others want some kind of unification?

        • linette lee

          I want HK and TW to be separated from China for now. China gov’t has too much internal problems. They need to fix and improve their gov’t system and enforce them better. So they are not ready to unite with Tw and Hk gov’t yet. When Chine gets better I really don’t care separate or unite. I just don’t want to see the citizens of TW and Hk to lose rights they enjoy under the HK and tW gov’t.

    • jon

      have your friends and gf ever visited China? Are they from the North of Taiwan or South? Are their parents benshengren or waishengren?

      I’m guessing ur friends would answer “No”, “South”, and “benshengren”?

      Have you met ppl from taiwan outside of japan? If the answer is no there’s also quite a bit of bias in your sample.

      • Butsu

        Of course there’s bias, and that also comes from my interaction with chinese classmates and other chinese students (and the interaction of taiwanese, chinese, hong kongese) in Japan. They’re actually from all over Taiwan, south, north, middle. As for benshengren or waishengren I honestly don’t know. As far as I know, there’s clear ‘racist’ tendencies if you can say that, all of them is very reluctant to visit mainland China. Macau or Hong Kong is fine though.

        From my own limited interactions, I see more of a connection with age than let’s say origin, class etc.

      • linette lee

        What is the different between north and south of Taiwan?? For Taiwan there is the native aborigines and Chinese. And they also mixed. I don’t understand what you are saying. Taiwanese will tell you they are Taiwanese and that’s it.

        Also a lot of Hkese are teochew originally. My mom told me her grandparents were from some place in Fujian province. People migrate to all over the place to Taiwan, Singapore, Hk, malaysia, America…etc.

        • linette lee

          a little trivia. This guy Lee Ka shing, he is a Hkese Teochew. The richest man in Asia as of 2013. He is a self made billionaire.

          李嘉誠 is a Hong Kong business magnate, investor, and philanthropist. According to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, as of October 7, 2013 he is the richest person in Asia, with a net worth of $28.8 billion.

          Hk, the land of opportunity. :)

          http://www.payer.de/arbeitkapital/arbeit30663.gif

        • Kai

          Generally speaking, Southern Taiwan is more pro-independence (green) while the North is more pro-KMT (blue). I won’t say pro-reunification since it is more like pro-status-quo in order to keep the option open.

          Taiwan has a reasonably complex identity issue. There are aboriginals as well as Chinese and Japanese immigrants. Chinese immigration came over many different periods too starting from the earliest fishermen and sailors all the way to the big Nationalist government exodus from the mainland retreating into Taiwan. The Japanese are from when Taiwan was ceded to Japan after the mainland dynastic government lost a war to Japan and Japan had Taiwan as a “colony” for quite some time.

          Those in Taiwan should be familiar with the terms benshengren and waishengren. They translate literally to “someone from this province” and “someone from outside this province”, because Taiwan was seen as a province of greater China. The reason @disqus_FGnZeAitLI:disqus asks what their parents identify as is because this distinction mostly came about following the Nationalist government retreating to Taiwan and a bunch of mainland refugees followed, subsequently taking up residence and continuing/rebuilding their lives in Taiwan. They are “waishengren” while those who were already in Taiwan before them consider themselves “benshengren” (even if they might trace their own historical roots back to mainland China or elsewhere).

          Benshengren generally lean towards independence because they’ve developed a more distinct Taiwanese identity than waishengren who are more recent transplants to Taiwan and have more memories and ties to the mainland.

          Most people from Taiwan are are increasingly stressing being from Taiwan these days to differentiate from China precisely because China is rising and getting a lot more attention. Since a lot of that attention is negative, a lot of people from Taiwan are motivated to distance themselves away from “mainland Chinese” even if they are not necessarily pro-independence in the long-run. It’s a convenience issue. To avoid being saddled with the baggage of the label of “Chinese”, they adopt and represent themselves with a safer label.

          But it is definitely the younger generations that are less tied to China and more insistent on being Taiwanese than Chinese. To them, there are too many negative connotations with “Chinese”. They don’t want to be seen as poor, backwards, uncouth mainland peasants. Calling them Chinese may even be an insult as a result. Just like many Hong Kongers. Sometimes they align with the Chinese, sometimes they distance. It all depends on what’s convenient. People are disingenuous that way.

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            Awesome, thanks that was really informative.

          • Riddler

            I once said sarcastically I’d like to meet you face to face. I now say this out of respect.

            I am not ashamed to say publicly I am learning from you.

            Regards Sir.

            ps. I am trying to behave. Really:-)

          • linette lee

            oohhh.. first time I hear this info.
            You so smart. I like that. :)

    • dffd

      taiwan is chinas bitch in the shadows, just like how all western countries are americas bitch

      • Chris Hansen

        You’re my bitch…go fetch!!! Good bitch….

      • Riddler

        Would you care to define ‘bitch’ in the context you have posited?

      • David

        Well, I am American and I am not aware we have any “bitch” countries and if we do why don’t I get any benefit from them?

  • Riddler

    ..

    • donscarletti

      Interestingly, the disputed region of Kashmir is almost in the exact centre of that picture. So you’re point is well made, people would be far more happy if borders were easier to spot through satellite photography.

      • Riddler

        Yeah but ‘disputed’ is a relative term. Disputed by whom and disputes created by whom. All in all, this world COULD be a lot better in the absence of manufactured illusions and fractured societies.

        ps. I’m in a concilliatory mood these days. Let’s see how long it lasts:-)

    • donscarletti

      Also, of note. For example, if you look at China there, you can see quite clearly the Himalayas marking the border with India/Nepal, see the Tianshan mountains marking the border with the ‘stans, see a tiny bit of the Amur (黑龙) river, marking the eastern part of the border with Russia. From a different angle, you would be able to make up the Yelu and Tumen rivers as well.

    • Californiaz

      Internationalist scum

      • Riddler

        You shouldn’t speak of your mother like that.

      • Riddler

        ..

        • David

          You have to give them credit for having proverb that covers almost every situation.

          • Riddler

            LMAO!!! Sharp sir, very sharp.

        • Californiaz

          Globalist scum pls go

          • Riddler

            Did it take you that long to read my post? What level of retarded are you?

    • symon

      your right, i dont see any borders either. So let me in to your home so i can help myself to your food.

      • Riddler

        ‘You’re’

        Back to school for you, no lunch.

        • Cauffiel

          How can you eat your pudding if you don’t your meat?

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            pink floyd?

          • Cauffiel

            Obviously.

        • Don’t Believe the Hype

          lol, damnit

          • Riddler

            :-) The comment was so ridiculous that it warranted more than what I said but I’m trying to behave these days.

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        are you saying that there is no middle ground between extreme nationalistic territorial squabbles and you coming in to peoples house to mark your territory?

        • Riddler

          As long as he doesn’t mark his territory in a canine fashion, he is welcome to share any food in my home.

    • Cauffiel

      I like…. but I went to the website, and the rest of it is just thoughtless paranoid hippie liberal bullshit. :-(

      • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

        You strike me as a tobacco chewing red neck from the deep south, right or wrong?

        • Cauffiel

          Haha… I lived in Atlanta for 11 years of my life (Michigan and Ohio the other 19). I’ve never chewed tobacco, drank moonshine, purposely watched NASCAR, and I’m pretty good at spelling. So… not a redneck.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Atlanta, Georgia. That was featured in the great movie deliverance. Hey lewis, let’s forget this, go back and play golf, lol

      • Riddler

        Which website are you referring to?

        • Cauffiel

          politicomments.com, the one in the bottom left of your image.

          • Riddler

            I haven’t been on that site, that image was sent to me a while back. Now that you disapprove, no need to visit it:-)

      • David

        Well, I get enough thoughtless paranoid hippie liberal BS sent to me on FB so I will stay away as well.

        • Robert Rou

          And there is no small irony that you actually look like one of those hippie liberals?

          • Probotector

            Only because his hair is long?

          • David

            Since most intelligent people do not judge others simply by how they look, I am not surprised to see that does not apply to you. Robert, I am not sure if you have a crush on me or just want attention. I go to lunch and come back and you have already commented on 4 of my posts. Your picture is a perfect representation of your arguments. Have a wonderful day.

  • Ruaraidh

    Even if Taiwan had the power to annex the mainland, to do so would be the ruination of it; devoured by locusts.

  • MAC

    China is CHINESE!!!!!! not TAIWANESE….. what i know is TAIWAN is part of CHINA not the other way around….

    • TheSOP

      Last I checked you need a passport to get into Taiwan, and Chinese better apply for a visa before visiting! Visa free for American friends of course :)

    • narsfweasels

      “what i know is TAIWAN is part of CHINA”

      What you “know” is a lie.

    • Nessquick Choco

      No no no, go back to school

      • Realist

        Apparently, he went to a legitimate school, the one where the teacher taught you the Taiwan is not accepted by the UN as a nation, and under the 1 China policy, the US recognizes that the Republic of China is a part of China, led by the People’s Republic of China. Maybe you should go to a better school if you didn’t know these facts.

        • Nessquick Choco

          I know the fact, that whenever where ever, you do not like your govt, you are free to express and leave a country. If that include take a whole island, so why not ? If my island people, every each of them, don’t accept an idea of the other country, who tries to be a mother ( bad mother) why the hell have to bow the head. Even you are fre go to your free island, make your own country, money, flag and election if you want …

          • realist

            Definitely, people can leave. But an island? No. Islands don’t leave. Anyway, it’s obvious what kind of school you went to. In elementary school, they teach you feel-good babble like what you just wrote (bad mother? LOL how old are you?). In universities, they teach you international law, and international law says, ROC is a part of China.

          • Nessquick Choco

            Why there is not respect to other peoples wish in your kingdom ? I do not want stay with you, why you press me be yours ? call army and show your balls, if you have any.

          • realist

            Why would China call the army? ROC has not filed any official attempt to be recognized as a nation. China has made it known that if that is done, China will attack. Once again, nobody cares if you want to be Chinese or not (not like China doesn’t have enough people). If not, you can leave, but Chinese land is Chinese land.

          • Nessquick Choco

            What is the definition of Chinese land ?

          • David

            In University did they also teach you that International law is a myth? There is no such thing as real international law except what any individual country decides it wants to respect (for its own purpose and any given time). For a law to be truly legitimate it must radiate from some body who has the ability to enforce it i.e. a King, Parliament, President or Dictator with martial power to enforce it or the will of the people to obey it because it represents their wishes, like in a sovereign country. When you say International law says Taiwan is part of ROC what you mean is that the U.N. (and some other international organizations) and most countries recognize that relationship (for almost 40 years now). But to pretend there is not still a controversy, and that opinion varies widely on the subject is disingenuous. Most countries officially acknowledge China’s claim in Taiwan while openly and loudly declaring Taiwan as an independent country (while avoiding saying this anywhere officially) and supporting that proposition with military support ans weapons sales. We officially pretend Taiwan is part of PROC and China pretends to allow everything they do with a few scolding words when they do something to tarnish this charade (like try and buy missile defense). It currently (for 60+ years) works for both countries while Taiwan actually wants to be acknowledged as their own country and China wants to actually control Taiwan.

          • Robert Rou

            “In University did they also teach you that International law is a myth?”

            I will happily agree that the 1895 Treaty of Shimoneski as it relates to China/Japan is fiction.

          • realist

            Your comment is so stupid, I can’t get over it. If I buy 50 acres of land in the US, then I say I don’t like the US and I’m taking my land with me, will the US allow this 50 acres of land to become foreign soil? Hell no. I can go, but the land doesn’t go. Same if 100 people buy 5,000 acres. You can’t just make your own country. If you insist, the police will haul you to jail. If you fight back, the military will be called in to kill you and your 99 friends. That’s how the real world works, not your Disney, do whatever you like, garbage.

          • Nessquick Choco

            I love to see you guys angry over . I my disneyland, all is possible.

          • realist

            But apparently, writing good English is not possible LOL. And you tell other people to go back to school? Shame on you.

          • Germandude

            I don’t know about the US, but in Germany, if for example the province of Bavaria wanted to seperate from the rest of the country, they could. They would need to run through a pretty bureaucratic procedure, but they could.

            I am not familiar with the US on this topic, but I think I remember that a couple of years ago, a politician from Texas suggested a seperation from the then NSUSA (Not So United States of America). Any American here: Please correct me if I am wrong.

            Now if we talk China, please let me know how China would handle any movement if e.g. Guangdong wanted to become its own country,.

          • realist

            China would kill everyone who supported the movement. That’s how China would do it LOL. In the US, you cannot succeed from the 50 states; that’s why the Civil War was fought. The general rule is, no superpower will allow itself to fall apart.

          • Nessquick Choco

            That’s all what chinese can do, kill others, because they are unable to respect others.

          • realist

            That’s what Russia does to Georgians; that’s what America does to Iraqis and Afghans. Powerful nations use power to achieve success. Weak nations must bow to powerful nations; that has remained unchanged in all of history. The only change is which nations are strong and which nations are weak. Do you wanna be part of a weak nation, or part of a powerful nation?

          • Germandude

            About your civil war example:

            That’s what I thought. Honestly, I didn’t follow the Texas seperation case closely and the only thing I remember right now is that there was a discussion about it.

            Excuse my laziness today that I am not willing to research the topic online and educate myself. I am awaiting wisdom through a sign of Jesus Christ.

          • David

            While no state has tried to leave the Union in more than 150 years, technically it can be done in the same way a state joins the union. First it must be voted on by a majority of the state population, then it must be approved by the state government (and signed by the governor) and then it must be approved by the federal government (i.e. Congress must pass the law and the President must sign it). It is very very unlikely to happen any time soon but people are allowed to scream, yell and organize efforts to do it all they like (Main, Vermont, Texas and California all have very active separatist movements).

          • Robert Rou

            “It is very very unlikely to happen any time soon but people are allowed
            to scream, yell and organize efforts to do it all they like (Main,
            Vermont, Texas and California all have very active separatist
            movements).”

            And you said you were American again? LOL. One for 4, not bad. 25% hit rate.

            There is ZERO chance any state could leave the Union here in the US short of a 2nd Civil War.

          • David

            I have no clue what you think you are keeping score of but everything I wrote is 100% correct. It takes more then just a troll comment from you to deny that. There is little chance any state will WANT to leave the United States but not because they can not.

          • Probotector

            “China would kill everyone who supported the movement. ”

            So it’s okay for China to go around killing everyone they don’t like, but you get all butt hurt when one misguided little kid says “kill all Chinese”?

          • Kai

            There have been people in Texas who think they should be independent for a long time. Not gonna happen. A lot of countries have laws or ideals that allow for such things but very rarely have they actually been put to the test and it’s usually so unlikely that no one really considers just how likely the larger polity would actually allow it. Maybe we should look towards Quebec?

          • Elijah

            Darnit!!! You got to Quebec before me!

            Canada! Leading the World in achieving goals through non-violence since 1867.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada

            OR

            http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=CANADA

            OR (not for the faint of humour)

            https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Soviet_Canuckistan (dare you to look up china on this site…)

          • Germandude

            “Canada! Leading the World in achieving goals through non-violence since 1867.”

            Bullshit. Canada wasn’t playing football (to americans aka soccer) in 1867 and so, couldn’t achieve any goals.

            I checked your last link, encyclopediadramatica… and thought “Finally, the english counterpart of the german “stupidedia”. I quickly looked up Germany for a good laugh and left disappointed after a second….

          • Elijah

            Look at Canada and Quebecois Independence. I personally feel that the Quebecois suck more from the government teat than anyone else and give back the least (per capita) like most Canadians, but we all voted to keep Quebec a part of Canada. Oh, and the vote was held only in Quebec for those who would decry an overwhelming population gap between Quebec and the rest of the provinces/territories combined.

          • Germandude

            Quebec. Isn’t Quebec “that French” part of Canada? And you Canadians really kept that voluntarily? ;-)

    • Probotector

      No one cares.

  • YourSupremeCommander

    Fighting like monkeys in the Parliament, only in Taiwan.

    • Paul Schoe

      and the UK?

    • Chris Hansen

      Yes and the PRC politicians are more civilized on the surface, because they just secretly take high school girls back to the love hotel for a gangbang party..

  • MidniteOwl

    All you have to do is let China kill itself (politically, environmentally, socially). Then you can reclaim it… but then again, I dunno if you really want such a dump after they finish with it. lol.

    • Realist

      Haha, that’s what they said in 1989 and look at how the power dynamics have changed thus far. China’s technology, economy, and military has only risen and the West, in comparison, is waning. If anyone’s killing itself, it’s not China.

      • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

        You sound like a wumao/GW on here. Technology? Cleaning up an oil spill with human hair.

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          DONALD!!! I loved you in the “Halloween” movies you crazy old devil. R.I.P.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Indeed, my favourite movies of my career, my good chap.

          • dffd

            you just got served by realist ,,,

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            He does not bother me one jot, just another wumao.

          • Realist

            My English is not bad for a wumao, huh? The US economy is so bad, even though I graduated from a top 20 university, I had to work as a wumao for the Chinese government cus that’s the only government with any money.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Not really. The UAE, Russia, I suppose these governments have no money? Russia is shaking a lot out of the coffers, would not be so cocky dear boy if I were you. Look that up in your electric dictionary, also cockhead if you like.

          • realist

            Looked up “cockhead”, and got a picture of you. Why did you ask me to do that?

          • Riddler

            You needed to look it up? A mirror would suffice.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Didn’t ask you to do anything, merely stop replying to me, and I will go away, but it seems you are incapable like your fellow east asian males of doing that.

          • Riddler

            Are you his personal assistant/bitch?

        • Realist

          Yeah? I sound like a wumao to you because you’re not smart enough to think beyond that pathetic automatically generated response to anyone who doesn’t join the the West’s envy, disdain, and fear of China’s rise. Cleaning up an oil spill with hair? Guess that proves everything… except, who has the fastest supercomputer in the world? How many countries can perform space-docking? How many countries can design a fighter jet? How many countries have an ICBM that can strike anywhere in the world? Your attempt to deny China’s technological advance reveals that you are far too ignorant on the topic to speak. And Dan, you just described the economy of every country.

          • Riddler

            “How many countries can design a fighter jet?” Design? Quitea few. Copy? China wins.

          • Realist

            Less than 10 countries in a world of over 200 countries. Of these handful, only, Russia, US, Britain, France, Sweden, and China can make their own engines. Of these, only USA, Russia, and China can create an engine with over 100kN of thrust. Copy? Yes. Design? Yes as well. Take what other countries have worked long and hard to design, and make it better. This is the military, not a science fair. If it can protect the nation, the purpose is served. No need to respect the IP rights of a machine designed to kill you.

          • Jahar

            China can’t design an engine though. they reverse engineered(copied) an old, out of date Russian one. Canada can make them. Autralia, Germany and Japan without much effort, I’d wager.

          • realist

            And we have another ignorant person talking. Tell me, how do you copy a Russian AL-31 with 125kN of power and get a WS-10A with 132kN of power? The engine that China created was actually based off of an American engine, but vastly improved in power. You’d wager that? How ignorant. The jet engine is the most difficult piece of technology to master. Germany might have a chance at an engine over 100kN, with its 80kN Volvo engine already used on the Gripen, but for others who have not done it, it’s a hard process.

          • TheSOp

            If you’ve seen one of these sanlu drinking fenqings post you’ve seen them all, not an ounce or originality or critical thinking.

          • David

            I wonder if you are just upset and therefore ranting nationalistic propaganda makes you feel better or if you really believe what you write is the truth.

          • DavidisDawei

            I agree; China has made significant inroads. They have been manufacturing long enough to understand the process inside out and the new generation(s) take the next step(s) forward.

            Use the development of China’s High Speed rail/train as an example. Not only the rapid development of the infrastructure required, but the way China has handle the train design&production.

            They mandated the foreign hopefuls to form a joint venture with Chinese companies. That first contract was for a small number of trains to prove out the design and when the next contract goes to bid (production release – hundreds or thousands of trains ordered) , the Chinese end the joint venture and bid/win the contract without foreign cooperation.

            If you want to rapidly ramp up your expertise in any area, this is a very smart way to do so.

          • Jahar

            Sorry to get back online so late. I have a lot of trouble accessing this site at times. I had read sth a few months ago about the difficulties China has producing a proper, up to date engine. They referenced copying the Russian one, which was the reason Russia stopped selling the Planes to China. You said for me to google it, before I put my foot in my mouth. again, yet all i can find are similar articles. Since google works better for you, care to post a link letting me know about these state of the art jet engines china makes now?

            Edit: found info about those engines. Seems as of last year, when i had originally read about them. What i find says that yes, the WS10A is copied from the AL-31, that the WS10A still isn’t good enough to use. Having more thrust isnt an indication that it couldn’t be made with copied technology. I would assume that if you copied something made 20 years ago, you would try to make it better.

          • Riddler

            China can manufacture a lot, no argument there, but aside from iPhone/ipad covers, everything else is either copied or an agreed technology transfer from a foreign company. You did choose your wording rather well though. ‘create’ and engine. No, they manufactured an engine. Big difference.

          • Washington Bullets

            There are only 193 countries according to the UN, as well as some little piss-ant observing entities.

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            “Your attempt to deny China’s technological advance reveals that you are far too ignorant on the topic to speak”

            Who is not impressed by China? Why would we even be here talking about China if we didn’t think it was worth researching and learning more about? Remember that when westerners learn Chinese we’re actually supposed to learn something about that country. You can copy other countries all you want, but the real test will come when people wake up to have a real debate about the future of their country, not what their leaders dictate them to say.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Space docking, dear god, 30 million people living in caves…think smaller, not bigger my dear boy.

          • realist

            30 million, huh? Didn’t know your mother’s vagina could fit so many. Sorry for the crude remark, but there’s no other way to speak to ignorant people who insist on debating anyway.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Pot calling kettle. Take your confucian gambits elsewhere you east asian gangster.

          • realist

            When you are dead, it is of no trouble to you, but it is difficult on others. Its the same when you’re stupid. The person who didn’t make ignorant false statements about caves and 30 million people is the winner LOL

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            It is still a fact dear boy, and facts are what we are dealing with here,not hearsay, but facts. Get it, got it, good.

          • Riddler

            ‘Didn’t know your mother’s vagina could fit so many.’

            Why did you say that? Someone pissed in your mothers milk and stamped on your father’s testicles?

          • realist

            And I’m Chinese, so I think bigger. I leave the small thinking to people with small minds, like yourself.

          • Paul Schoe

            Oops, just as i enjoyed the discussion, you put your foot in your mouth.

            What you now say is basically what i find a lot in China and why it is difficult for many people to believe that China will become a GREAT nation.

            30 million poeple still living in caves (and nor the number nor the cave is relevant, it is figurative speaki) to many Chinese people are considered a “small” thing, because it doesn’t concern themselves. nor their direct family.

            But to me these people are the BIG thing. A country is build up from its people, and a country can only become storng, when it takes care of its people, so its people will think positive about their country.

            I am very, very impressed with how many people China has raised from absolute poverty duirng the last 30 years. But your remark that docking a space station is more important then 30 million of your fellow country men living in caves, shows exactly why your country gets so much criticism from its own people.

            How can you be so proud, when your own brothers and sisters are still hungry? Oh,i forgot, people living in a cave are among the “small thinking” issues.

          • realist

            Excellent point. In an ideal world, people come first. Everyone should be fed and dressed and happy. However, because of certain imperialist powers from half the world away, military power has become paramount. If China spends all its money making everyone happy and fed, military achievements may be much slower, with loss of budget, and as we all know, if you get into a disagreement with that certain superpower, military power is what’s going to stop you from becoming the next Afghanistan. So, if you invest heavily and technology and the ability to defend yourself, many people in your country will suffer because the money that could be used to help them, was used on these projects. However, if you don’t have these projects, then all of the people in your country will suffer because you must either bow to 11 aircraft carriers breathing down your neck, or succumb a foreign troop invasion. Even if outright invasion doesn’t happen, your national pride is crippled by foreign ultimatums and I’d rather live poor and proud than fat and ashamed that my country is unable to defend itself.

          • Shi Bob

            your scapegoating is thinly veiled. China could have fed its millions in all its millenia of history, but it didn’t. why? because the few controlled and owned too much of the resources. just like the party now owns most everything behind shadow companies. don’t make excuses.

          • realist

            That’s not just China. That is the result of corporate greed and corruption in all nations. Americans are quite unhappy about their government as well.

          • Paul Schoe

            I understand your points but I did not make my comment because I disagree with the way China spents its money and does its investments. Let’s consider that above my pay-grade and, being a foreigner, maybe even none of my business.

            Why I commented was because you seem to consider that thinking about 30 million living in caves (once again, the number is not very relevant) is “small thinking” and “as a Chinese” you occupy yourself with “bigger thinking“.

            Your reply reflects something that I still have a problem with, when living in China. The fact that whatever happens to other people, to people outside the direct family and friends circle, is absolute of no importance. It is this attitude that I reacted against.

            I am not talking about national politics, but about personal behavior. But I have to learn that in China, caring about other people’s well-being is considered “small thinking“.

            As such, you worded very well why so many Chinese people express negative opinions about their country. Maybe in the next century, Chinese people will have some room to think about their fellow country-men and can then become a truly GREAT country.

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            dude, your reaching, China has had many opportunities to feed its people, instead it has resorted to petty politics and tyrants

          • Probotector

            So, there’s still poverty in China because the government is scared of America. Quite a lot of influence the have over you then.

          • realist

            Yes, powerful nations have great influence. That threat drives military spending of other countries, especially countries that are powerful enough to be your main competitors.

          • Riddler

            You have made THE point. When you have a one child policy, that kid never learns to share which has given entirely new dimensions to selfishness.

          • Paul Schoe

            @ Riddler: hmmm, interesting point. Nice for a relaxing evening of freethinking and brainstorming.

            Personally I blame the Cultural Revolution more then the one-child policy. That time where everybody was afraid to get involved with anything at all as they could be accused of being reactionary. in addition there was shortage of everything so out of necessity people got used ot a ‘family first’ policy.

            I find that the young generations have that ‘family first’ a lot less then the older ones. Many of them care for others and seem to easily share. So on the whole, I am very positive about the future of China, but until then, it is often appaling to see how adults often treat fellow Chinese who do not belong to their inner circle.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Yawn, I’m this country, so I have the most of. Can your navy deploy globally, seethe on it, think hard on it, get back to me.

          • realist

            For war? No, it cannot. The Chinese navy has no intent to rule lands 10,000 miles away. We are working hard to build a navy that can defend our territories nearby, and if that means we have to think big and leave some people hungry, it’s something we cannot afford not to do, thanks to the US. You’ve just proven my point.

          • Probotector

            A blue water navy isn’t just for conquest.

          • Riddler

            Forget 10,000 miles away and stick closer to base. For example? Remember that incident? Earlier this year? When your navy was harassing phililipine boats? They didn’t even realise, that a couple of American Frigates and Destroyers were parked around the corner. When they sailed around that corner in support of the phillipine ship, and waved cheerfully at the chinese navy, how do you think those sailers felt?

            So look, stick to national defense and gain the respect of the world. No. Vietnam, Phillipines, those islands that Japan owns, and all your other neighbours are not going to ally with china against America, its the other way around, they need and prefer America to protect themselves against your expansionist policies.

            Aside from that twirp in north korea, no one is going to Ally with you in a war against America.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Again, a lack of vision, thinking big, not small and powerful, what fucking territories nearby you buffoon?

          • kaka

            Again, I agree with everything you say, but… surely at the heart of the thinking of those who join the West’s (sic) envy disdain and fear of China’s rise must be the admission that China has undertaken, at least in some form, technological development. If they believed China had not done so, why would they be envious disdainful and fearful?

            Although I was unaware that China had developed the super-computer, the fighter-jet, ICBMs, and space travel, which I guess is down to my western education and inherent biases, I was aware that they had “imported” said technology. Indeed I thought it was well known that through a mix of intelligence huge amounts of money and investment inter-national cooperation and the fact that somebody else had essentially done it already – China has achieved competitiveness if not parity in certain selected technological areas – isn’t that why some people are envious disdainful and fearful?

            Perhaps Dan meant to say he was waiting to see the results of next months Party Plenum before committing himself to a long term position on China’s social economic and political future, and whether the Chinese government can implement the changes necessary to enter the next phase of economic development as outlined in last years Development Research Centre-World Bank report – but then again, you suggested that he is both “not smart” and “ignorant” (suggesting you are the opposite), so perhaps he didn’t mean to say that at all…

          • realist

            Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s not what he meant to say. You “translated” jealous, ignorant babble into a meaningful point and that’s giving him way too much credit. Anyway, yes, those are China’s achievements, but in this world, nothing is done from scratch. China’s supercomputer has parts purchased from America, however despite that, the US has not been able to create a computer with nearly as much power. China’s missiles and space endeavors, however, seem to be much of China’s original work (or possibly secretly obtained from espionage) after the US banned China from taking part in the international space station. Fighter jets are a different story, with much of China’s work coming from the Russian Flanker and stolen blueprints of America’s top fighters. However, that has not stopped China from modifying and building upon these prints instead of producing copies of them. In any case, in this material world, especially as it pertains to the military, it’s all about doing everything you can to defend yourself. This is not a science fair; it’s about doing whatever is possible to have the best war machines in working order so you don’t have to listen to ultimatums from countries that like to travel to the other side of the globe in giant aircraft carriers to act like they own the place.

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            Defend? Who the hell wants to invade China? The only reason China wants an advanced military is so it can take by force what it can’t by reason- namely every country in Asia it can until its damaged ego can be repaired and the new Kangxi emperor can be installed.
            But your discussion about China’s technology instantly goes in to military operatons, though, and I don’t think that is healthy. Doesn’t sound like peaceful rise-like thinking to me anyway. Truth is China- US relations are mutually beneficial, the governments and businesses of both countries know this but they write inflammatory crap in the papers so the peons of their countries can give them more legitimacy- see brainwashed crap of this article.

            It will also be interesting to see when China actually has to deal with the problems inherent in any country. For example not having 7% growth anymore and having to deal with a growing middle class.

          • Riddler

            ‘Although I was unaware that China had developed the super-computer, the fighter-jet, ICBMs, and space travel..’

            I suggest you return to your previous state of blissful ignorance because china did not ‘develop’ any of the above.

          • Jahar

            Um, the west doesn’t envy China’s rise. It would be like envying a 9 year old moving up to the 4th grade… As for how many countries can design a jet fighter, does it matter, if they can’t make the engine? And ICBMs is a measure of a country’s worth? I could name half a dozen countries with the ability to make them, but don’t. I think that’s a more enviable quality.

          • Kai

            Just as the conversation was finally steering away from the all too common cycle of tit-for-tat penis comparisons thanks to @paulschoe:disqus and @disqus_qCWiZvWdtg:disqus as well as @18edeb3d12c90675b9ad784d31ad15d6:disqus ‘s willingness to reciprocate attempted civility with attempted civility, you bring it back to feigned ignorance and dismissive insults. If this characterization of the discussion doesn’t make sense, it may be because I’m reading the entire comment thread from top to bottom and you aren’t so I do genuinely apologize if me lamenting your contribution as a negative turn of events (or return) here is unfair to you.

            Plenty of people in the West envies China’s rise, or at least aspects of it. They’re capable of envying certain successes China has accomplished while still being aware of China’s continuing problems and mistakes. It’s even more accurate to say that many in the West don’t envy China’s rise, they fear it. No one likes to see someone else competing with them, especially if you are predisposed to seeing them as some “other” that you can’t or don’t want to find common ground with.

            I think you understand Realist’s point, which is a desire for people to give credit where it is due instead of repeatedly dismissing China’s accomplishments with one reason or another. Some of the examples he cites are weak in my opinion and I can easily counter with more glorious accomplishments by other countries that put China’s to shame, but that’s just the same cycle of penis-comparisons.

            It’s as if people can’t give credit without feeling it detracts from their own identity. It’s not a zero-sum game. Instead of being happy for another country or another person’s accomplishments, why are people so insecure that they have to minimize, downplay, or dismiss them? Or find something of their own and hold up as better?

            @MidniteOwl:disqus made a stereotypically dismissive remark about China. @18edeb3d12c90675b9ad784d31ad15d6:disqus gets defensive. @greatspelunk:disqus makes a stereotypically dismissive remark about anyone who defends China against dismissive remarks. @realist returns the favor. It’s hard to say who fell to whose level. I will credit Realist with responding in what I consider a genuine sincere manner whenever someone responds to him in such a way. That’s promising and that should be recognized.

            We need less dismissive responses like likening China to 9 year olds. It only breeds tit-for-tat flamewars.

            Finally…

            How many countries can design a jet fighter certainly matters. It has bearing on how many countries can then possibly go on to make the engines. Look at Japan, from copying technology to pioneering it.

            The ability to make ICBMs but not doing so is indeed an more enviable quality, but it doesn’t change the fact that being able to make an ICBM reflects a lot on what a country is capable of, and not remotely all of it is bad. Weapons technology is what underpinned the great American-Soviet space race, a race that has trickled down so much of the technology we take for granted today.

            We really gotta change people’s predisposition towards everything being zero-sum. Both Chinese and non-Chinese people think like this and it’s so incredibly tedious.

          • Riddler

            It is easy to get drawn into pettiness. I just moderated myself and deleted some of my more petty remarks on this page.

          • Riddler

            I’ve tried to delete some of of my own comments but they just reappear as ‘guest’. Trying to make positive contributions and i just lapsed again. Hope you will delete them for me Kai.

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            Agreed, we need to leave behind this view that we should always be at war with each other- hope we can have more reasoned discussions without getting too defensive with each other. After all, we are all freakin human and our differences are minimal in the scheme of things.

            I would like to take this opportunity to once again invite an alien to attack our planet, that would totally bring us together, at least for a year or two.

            i would also like to quote a very influential badass when he said- “there can only be …several!!”

          • realist

            Yeah, a 9-year old who has more money than you and made more academic progress in a year than you did in 6. Does China make its own engines? Google that so you don’t put your foot in your mouth again. ICBMs are a measure of a country’s ability to defend itself, not its overall worth.

        • the ace of books

          Actually, an aside on this comment:

          There is indeed a fairly new nanotech that can be used to clean up oil spills – not human hair, but nanomembane made of fibers. You can read about it here: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/410204/nano-sponge-for-oil-spills/ — and also here: http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=20215.php . It’s not new-new, but fairly new. Just thought I’d throw that in there, because science is awesome.

          And now, back to your regularly scheduled hatin’.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Science is awesome, but personally I prefer cheap chinese beer and chinese ladies. and you?

          • realist

            Well, I don’t blame you. I prefer the Chinese ladies too. The American ones here are too fat, smelly, loud-mouthed, and hairy.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Western women in Asia are like weeds, but I will write another post about this awful sub species later.

          • seriously????

            smelly????? haha, westerners are smelly? you guys dont even wear doedorant…. i have never seen so many smelly people .rearely shower…. wear the same clothes for 5 straight days ” it’s the winter and i dont sweat so why do i need to shower or change my underwear”?

          • Kai

            You gotta stop lowering yourself to his level. It sabotages your credibility in a comments section that is already generally biased against you.

          • realist

            I only use this for ignorant people like Donald and people who seem to be stuck in elementary school level logic like Nessquick. Anyone who’s making a point, I’ll not say this kind of garbage to.

          • Kai

            A lot of people think they’re making a point even when they say garbage. If you really want to prevail over them in the court of public opinion (which may be the only one you can possibly win against an unreasonable opponent), address or refute his point without using garbage yourself. It’s hard, but try, because again, remember it is your credibility that suffers if you don’t.

          • TheSOP

            Doth thou bad mouth thy mother?

          • David

            In other words, none will give you the time of day. Gotcha.

          • the ace of books

            Ehn, I prefer things that are fantastic, awesome, and also good beers and liquors. 哈尔滨啤酒 is okay for if you want something next to a meal, but if they’ve got it (and so rarely do they), I prefer Delerium Tremens.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Indeed, and crack cocaine.

          • the ace of books

            Also, lambic. Gotta put in a good word for lambic.

      • lonetrey / Dan

        “It’s growing by killing itself; the blood of the downtrodden peasants slaving themselves to death is what feeds the fat bourgeoisie pigs’ flourishing economy!”

        … is what a cynic would say. Not me though :P

        • linette lee

          You are Taiwanese. What do you think? Taiwan should reunite with China?

          • lonetrey / Dan

            Sure. I don’t care whether it’s Taiwan who reunites with China or China that reunites with Taiwan. As long as they start working together, have a government that serves its people, and Chinese people flourish.

            Sadly, nothing close to what I describe exists right now.

            It’s not about the label. “China” and “Taiwan” are both just names. I just want them to do the right thing and help their society flourish properly, not through cutting corners, half-measures, and breaking rules.

            .

            It occurred to me that you already knew this, and you are asking me whether they should join up. My answer would be yes, but on the condition that both government break ties from their past governments and start trying something new.

            Innovation in leadership and restructuring the government hierarchy seems like the most desirable solution.

            Imagine that it wasn’t United States who decided to start a brand new country back in 1776, but rather China. If China were to suddenly lose its collective memory of everything, and decided to try something new to make their government right, think of how much they could accomplish.

            I know, I know. I think too fancifully.

          • Don’t Believe the Hype

            Well the US went from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution pretty smoothly and France created the Fifth republic, so it can happen (or at least it has). Also I don’t have to mention that Taiwan/Hong Kong and Mainland are all models of different governments the Chinese people have tried, we could start by analyzing which works best.

      • kaka

        I agree with everything you say, which is strange because normally when someone chooses a handle like Realist, they tend to in-fact be operating under some idealist pseudo-notion devoid of any grasp on reality.

        However, my friend thought your comment was indicative of Chinese “confirmation-bias” when it comes to detailed fact-based and balanced understanding of China’s socio-political-economic status within the geo-political framework and the challenges facing China over the next 25-50 years, if it is not to fail in its attempt to break out of the middle income trap now that it has picked the low-hanging fruit of cheap-labour, investment-led, export-led, catch-up growth and a reliance on imported technology.

        Nevertheless, I thought your comment was neat, and in no-way pact with generalisations devoid of any understanding of the realities of technology, economics, and military matters – as my friend suggested.

        • Riddler

          • linette lee

            ooh.. I like this.. How about this one.

            “You educate a man; you educate a man. You educate a woman; you educate a generation.”

            Go educate the mothers in the world.

  • Realist

    Ma is awesome! You know he has absolutely no intent to “retake the mainland.” Even old KMT soldiers who forgot their medicine all know Taiwan cannot achieve that. He’s telling foreigners that there is only one China and that cross-strait relations are domestic so don’t try to pretend to be a hero and split Taiwan away. Taiwan is taking a step closer to the mainland and readying for gradual reunification. But he said it in a clever way that is acceptable to the people of Taiwan, who are in a rather confused state about who is family and who is the enemy after being mentally poisoned by the American and Japanese.

    • Nick in Beijing

      Foreigners… for…eign…errrrsss… AAAARRRGGGHHH!

    • Nessquick Choco

      And you eat too much pills.

      • realist

        Hey, stay in your Disneyland. All of your arguments sound like they came from a 10-year old. “Bad mother” LOL WTF?

    • Kai

      I disagree with your characterization here, which edges towards ignorant rabble-rousing. You had me up until the third sentence, then you started deviating from the reality I know.

      He’s reaffirming the game of semantics as something that is necessary for peaceful cooperation and relations now. He is not warning off foreigners thinking they want to split Taiwan away. Very few foreigners legitimately care enough to actually want to do that and Ma isn’t so stupid as to overweight that sentiment in the few foreigners that have it so much that he makes some official proclamation refuting them. Stop it. It’s ridiculous.

      I think Taiwan is open to taking a step closer to the mainland but I don’t think this necessarily means it is “readying” itself for gradual reunification. This is because gradual reunificaiton is as much a social issue as it is a political and economic one. The people must consent and they don’t. They consent to improved relations that facilitate practical cooperation and mutual benefits (think: money, economy). All Ma is doing is doing what the KMT has thus far consistently done: Keep the question of reunification open with a game of semantics.

      The people are in no way consenting to much less “readying” themselves to “gradual reunificaton”. Any improvement in relations between Taiwan and China are not viewed in terms of “reunification” but mostly improved “economic trade”. This is important. The moment you start labeling such improvements in “economic trade” in the verbiage of “reunification”, you’re going to have a bigger shitstorm of public hand-wringing and conspiracy-theorizing in Taiwan.

      The people of Taiwan should consider their interests. They are not in a “confused state” if they don’t see their interests in alignment with the mainland. Even if the mainland can be considered family, individuals do not always have interests that align with their family. Just because Americans and the Japanese don’t always have their interests aligned with Taiwan doesn’t automatically make them “enemies” either.

      You know this and yet I’m forced to spell it out to you just to make sure. Stop it. It is such stupid rhetoric, as stupid as the stereotpical China-bashing rhetoric. Why sabotage yourself with expressing positions you know you can’t defend?

      • realist

        I’ll defend it right now. Why would Ma say something as stupid as that the PRC belongs to the ROC? Does he have plans to take the PRC by force? If these 2 entities fuse, as he suggested, then who, naturally, will be in charge? Also, was there any event that prompted this speech? No, I don’t think so. There was no PRC provocation or weakness that made him give this speech to seize an opportunity for ROC. He basically said it to tell the people, we are still 1 with China, but don’t freak out, we can be in charge and have a say too. The main point is that all issues are domestic; they involve no other country, and we will be one. If not, what is the purpose of his speech? See, family is family. When there are misaligned interests in the family, we discuss it out, all make compromises, sacrifice for one another, and we stay a family. Families don’t split because someone wanted A and someone wanted B, and anyone who wants to see this split is an enemy who wants to see the family divided and weaker.

        • Kai

          Saying such a thing is not stupid because it’s signaling his commitment to the status quo, which is premised upon the ROC constitution maintaining that there is only one China. To avoid signaling intent to declare official independence as a separate country, you signal a reaffirmation of the notion that there is only one country.

          Like you said, neither the ROC nor the PRC think it likely that the ROC can retake the mainland. It’s a political signal, one that only makes sense when you understand the underlying situation and dynamics.

          I didn’t think you were among those who don’t already understand the situation and thus would take this sort of political signaling at face-value. I was mistaken but I’ll be happy to explain it to you as best as I can.

          Political signals don’t need provocation or weakness, just an intent to communicate it. There are two uses I can think of immediately: 1) Reassuring the PRC government that the ROC government is not aiming to declare formal independence. 2) Preventing people from referring to cross-strait relations as “international” relations, which could signal formal desire or acceptance of the ROC no longer being part of “one” China.

          I don’t think Ma wants to or would benefit from saying to the Taiwanese people “we are 1 with China”, because they aren’t, and aren’t in so many things. The Taiwanese public would throw a hissy fit if he did. He’s saying what many of them already know, that he’s committed to maintaining the status quo, which they accept and want. How familiar are you with public sentiments on this issue in Taiwan?

          The mainland-Taiwan relationship is very much characterized as a family split. They do discuss, make compromises, and sacrifice for each other but they’re still split because they are de facto independently governed. The split is real. What Ma is doing is simply saying he’s still committed to keeping the question of whether or not this split can be healed one day OPEN, instead of closed. That’s it.

  • Washington Bullets

    Well, somebody’s confident. Who does he think he is, Xi Jinping?

  • Washington Bullets

    Not as good as biggJ, but I’m in a rush for class

  • Dumbledore

    It’s not really news, is it? That China claims Taiwan and Taiwan claims to rightfully represent the Mainland as well is the way it’s been since 1949. I mean, yeah, if you’re ignorant about history and/or fuelled by nationalism to the extent of wearing blindfolds, I guess you can get surprised by this statement.

  • death_by_ivory

    I love this comment the best.”Taiwan belongs to China since antiquity”.

    What about the aboriginals?I know it is like saying the USA belongs to the Native Americans but still…
    I recently watched the movie Warriors of Rainbow.Put a whole new perspective on this Taiwan thing (if it is historically accurate).The aboriginals have their own culture,looks and language.They are not Chinese and not Japanese.

    (The actors were natives from different tribes and gorgeous,I also in love with the language.Mesmerizing)

    • narsfweasels

      China’s claim to own … welll, China, is predicated on the claim the the natives of the small kingdoms they conquered have been sucessfully assimilated into “Chinese” culture and therefore their history is now inseperable.

      Of course, this claim only stands as an ex-post facto explanation – first the people were invaded.

  • BrandeX

    Protip: If you have border crossings and separate Passports and citizenship…. you’re not really the same country.

    • Realist

      Protip: There are exceptions to every rule.

      • Riddler

        Especially in china.

      • BrandeX

        Not when it comes to showing your passport when crossing the border. something every mainlander and taiwanese must do when going to either side. You may as well say Canada and USA are the same country since they are both mostly white, generally speak English, and have separate citizenship and passport with a border crossing…… same as Taiwan and China.

        • realist

          Listen to what the ROC leader has to say, then listen to what the PRC leader has to say. Neither thinks that ROC and PRC are different countries. Both agree that this is a domestic affair. So who are you to tell them that they are different countries? And there’s your exception to the rule.

          • David

            If it were as simple as you try and say it is then there would be no 7th fleet parked alongside Taiwan and the Taiwanese “government” or “governorship” (whichever) would not always be buying weapons from the U.S. (not to mention asking about missile defense systems). Political leaders say lots of things (occasionally meaningful, usually insipid and often just plain BS) What a particular government official says on a particular day does not change the reality of 64 years. This is simply my opinion.

  • narsfweasels

    They are both separate countries, neither one owns the other. Taiwan enjoys:

    -Separate currency

    -Separate economy

    -Separate passports and national identity

    -Separate public services, not in the least an education system and police force

    -Separate military

    -Independent relations with other states

    It also has some limited diplomatic relations, but that is essentially irrelevant these days.

    This claim and counter-claim is ridiculous. Both need to move on from this childish stupidity and walk their own path. But really it does seem that neither will blink.

    • Cauffiel

      A few days ago I was explaining to a class that duty free shops are placed in international airports and country borders.

      My example, since I live and teach in the Pearl River Delta, was Hong Kong. I explained that when you cross the border into Hong Ko….. “BOOOOOO! NOOOO!! HONG KONG IS A PART OF CHINA!!! THERE IS NO BORDER!!!!” they said.

      Then I told them that its much easier for me to go to Hong Kong than Chinese people. They were confused, so I explained visas and passports. They looked incredulous; I think they stopped arguing because there is no way the dumb foreigner could understand.

      • narsfweasels

        Hong Kong is part of China but it is also a Special Administrative Region, most PRC Chinese understand that – they don’t like it, but they understand it. Sounds like you just got a class full of morons.

        • Cauffiel

          They are first year university students, so nearly all of them are know nothings. A few of them have wise parents who actually treat their kids like people and not property, so they are clued in more.

        • Don’t Believe the Hype

          well its not exactly taught in history class. if it were, it would sound like : well, OK kids so in 1997 we took back Hong Kong, which was great and all. Unfortunately you can’t go there unless you get a special permit, pay this much money and pledge your undying devotion to the PRC. Oh and also try not to have a baby while your there, that is really bad form

          • narsfweasels

            “Oh and also try not to have a baby while your there, that is really bad form”

            Or do anything that might get you branded a locust….

      • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

        Guangzhou per chance?

        • Cauffiel

          Dongguan

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            Still suffering from air pollution?

          • Cauffiel

            Airs no good, and I’m sure we get a lot blowing over from GZ.

      • 白色纯棉小裤裤

        No, by the definition the border between hongkong and mainland China is not a country border.

        Whether it is easier for you to goto Hong Kong does not change the fact that Hong Kong is neither a country nor belongs to another Country.

        They stopped arguing because you failed in logic.

        • Cauffiel

          As has been pointed out about Taiwan, and as no one wishes to be repeated about Hong Kong, Hong Kong has:

          A passport/visa check to cross from Mainland
          Different currency
          Different government
          Different culture
          Different economy
          Different education system
          Different civil liberties
          Different language
          Different historical arc
          Same holidays (so what?)

          I failed at law. You fail at reality.

          • Kai

            I have a feeling they stopped arguing for more mundane reasons than simply dismissing you as a foreigner who as a foreign must know nothing. It’s hard to be sure since we don’t actually have a transcript of what was said between you and them, but I’d encourage you to give them the benefit of the doubt and not jump to assuming the worst reasons for why they do anything or stop doing anything.

            If you said “country borders” and then used the mainland-HK border as an example, I’d say they had a legitimate point about semantics. It ISN’T a “country border”. Chinese are not the only people who sometimes demand precision in speech so you should be able to empathize. A simple acknowledgement of using the wrong term and that the HK-mainland is a “special situation” very likely would’ve been more productive than devolving into a larger debate about how Hong Kong is in many ways “like” its own separate country.

            It’s very possible that these first-year university students aren’t completely ignorant and DO have some inkling of how HK is different as an SAR and understand why there are duty-free shops at the HK-mainland border. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them regularly watch some of the tons of HK-produced TV shows popular online in China or directly broadcasted into the Guangdong area. Yes, it’s possible they are completely ignorant but do you think in retrospect it was wise to lord your visa advantages to HK over them? Was that really going to endear you to them in understand whatever you were originally saying about duty free shops?

            Again, I wasn’t there and I can only go by your description. It just sounds like you inadvertently and quickly escalated a matter of semantics into an issue of sovereignty and then into how you as a foreigner have it so much better than them as Chinese citizens. Way to paint a target on yourself, right?

          • Cauffiel

            Haha, yeah, they totally ask for it. :-D

            I’ll admit you’re reading the situation mostly correctly but I didn’t say specifically “the country border between Hong Kong in China.” It was more like this: “duty free shops are in two places: along country borders and airports/airplanes/ships.” Better than half don’t know ‘border’, so I make an example of China’s northern border so I can show them more than one simultaneously. Then I go back and say “the border here with Hong Kong has duty free shops between the two checkpoints…” That’s when I get the reaction.

            You’re right, I could be less of a dick about it. But you don’t understand how obnoxious it is when 35 students erupt with “boooo!” and won’t shut up about it. These aren’t a handful of students raising their hands and asking “why do you say this is a country border?” They just start shouting at you and laughing. Gotta put those fuckers in their place!

            I would not respond the same way with a small group of students of any age.

            I’m also responding to a history of similar reactions. A few years ago I had a lesson during which I would draw a rough outline of China for an example of something. I got students shouting at me and booing for not drawing Taiwan.

            I responded with “I didn’t draw Hainan either. I didn’t even finish drawing the Mainland, only enough so you know it’s China for my example. So why are you complaining about Taiwan?” That shuts them up! Haha.

          • Kai

            Some, even a lot, of Chinese people can be oversensitive about these topics, jumping to the worst conclusions themselves. It’s really obnoxious. For example, you’re forced to wonder if they would’ve made a fuss if it was a local Chinese teacher who drew the same Mainland outline of a chicken.

            But yeah, still not a good idea to draw a target on yourself, for your own practical well-being while in China. Sometimes it just isn’t worth using such situations to prove even valid points. Better to wait for a better mindset from everyone involved.

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            Please enlighten me if UN or other authorities have ever defined such rule that two places of the same country cannot be different in this and that.

          • Cauffiel

            Please… we’re arguing over which band of criminals control what group of people. Try not to take it so seriously.

        • Don’t Believe the Hype

          you are missing the point. The idea of getting a permit to travel to another place withing your own country is extremely rare in the world and reflects the differences both politically and economically of the two

          • 白色纯棉小裤裤

            So?

  • Stefan Xu

    Mongolia and and the today outer Manchuria (Vladivostok etc), the Koreas, Vietnam, Laos, Northern Thailand is also Chinese territory.

    • chosan

      i give you thousand thumbs up

      • Riddler

        Please make sure to wash your hands after you are done.

      • theSOP

        i bet you’d give him a hummer too, sanlu drinking circle jerk

      • Probotector

        But you didn’t even give him one.

    • Riddler

      In which part of your brain does this happen?

      • Probotector

        The bit that’s damaged.

    • TheSOP

      Manchuria (Vladivostok etc), the Koreas, Vietnam, Laos, Northern Thailand all called, they said “fuck you imperialist wanker, thx have a nice day.”

    • Probotector

      Here’s the thing, government doesn’t always tell the truth.

  • the ace of books

    There’s actually quite a few interesting points in the comments section here:

    The mainland has since antiquity been an inseparable part of China.
    – One: lulz.
    – Two: if you think past the “cold joke” part, though: this is an interesting point. “an inseparable part of China?” China’s been separating and re-allying and reseparating and reallying all its history. There’s a pretty glorious gif here that shows that constant struggle of separation and alliance. Presenting as “unified” and “inseparable” is modern thinking retconned onto history.

    I welcome Taiwan and the Mainland hold elections, and whichever wins will unify the other!
    – An interesting idea, tying directly into:

    As for whether it is the People’s Republic of China or the Republic of China, those are political questions and not our ordinary common people’s concern. As for who is the rightful ruler [government], that is also not something we have control over.
    – …and this why the above idea would never work. If you don’t think you-the-people have any say in politics, what’s there for you to care about? “Why would we hold elections? We already know who’s going to win.” It’s the resignation of a people whose government is cut off and overlordly.

    On Taiwanese maps, Mongolia still belongs to China.
    – the “they’re no better than us, and in fact are worse” argument. It’s an argument that doesn’t matter if it’s true or not – the very saying of it is gossipy and inflammatory, with an overtone of “aren’t they-over-there stupid?”

    In short: Unification? I’m not holding my breath.

    • Nessquick Choco

      Nice worK.

  • http://chinasweat.blogspot.com/ Mike Lovett

    Taiwan: The other China, with benefits.

    • the ace of books

      Wouldn’t it be nice if Taiwan and China could be friends… with benefits?

      • Kai

        They have been, for years now.

        • mr.wiener

          Taiwan is giving China the reach around on the disputed islands issue.

          • Probotector

            China lite!

  • someguy

    中華民國萬歲!

    I’m not a fan of Ma, but I am a staunch supporter of the ROC. So long as we exist, the chance of unifying China under the Three Principles is still there.

  • B*tches, Leave

    We need an Alien invasion. Not even an invasion, but just the fact that Aliens exist. History thought us that whatever disagreements we humans have, we will unite behind a common hate (World War 2).
    It is hate, not love, that will unite the whole world against a common threat. Even if the Aliens will come in peace, we will unite and advance our technology, science and economy just to feel more confident against this threat (Cold War).
    If someone like Ma will come and say “bla bla bla”, we all will reply “shut up Ma, we have a bigger problem here – Aliens!”

    • dffd

      your a fuckin idiot

      • Cauffiel

        You’re.

      • Don’t Believe the Hype

        no imagination

    • Don’t Believe the Hype

      Yeah, lets kill some buggers !

  • moom

    Hitler thought Germany and Austria should be reunited, but since WW2 there doesn’t seem to be a problem that there are two neighboring German speaking countries. So, there is no reason why there can’t be two Chinese speaking countries neighboring each other or why both can’t be represented at the UN etc. But if there can only be one China then, of course, I support Taiwan’s claims :)

    • Shi Bob

      Anschluss!

      • Germandude

        Hitler was a noob in football and its rules. We should give him the benefit of a doubt that through his Austrian German accent, he simply took the wrong word when talking “Anschluss”. What he meant to be saying was “Anstoss”, which means kick-off.

        • Nessquick Choco

          Und Tchüss

    • BrandeX

      You forgot about Prussia.

      • Probotector

        In fact, Prussia and Austria were rivals back in the day, until German unification in 1871, wherein the Hohenzollern dynastry of the Prussian state defeated Austria’s designs to be the leader of the ‘German Nation’. Therefore, moom is only correct if he’s referring to German/Austrian relations post-1871.

    • Ba

      Austria and Germany are a completely different question though, they were never a single country (except during WWII and very long ago). The situation is more like East and West Germany… which did get reunited.

      • donscarletti

        They were together part of the Holy Roman Empire until 1806. Between The German Empire was founded 70 years later without Austria, but this was more because Austria already had its own empire in the south, rather than Austria being intrinsically less German than Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony, etc.

        • Probotector

          Remember also, it was Austria-Hungary that started WWI.

      • Zhabei

        Austria and Germany were part of the same country much longer than China and Taiwan were.

  • Germandude

    After the last 48 hours sprint on bashing US television and Chinese butthurt, I hoped today we’ll get some boob and leg show to calm down and be reminded of the bright sides of life. What a disappointment!

    • Kai

      LoL!

  • Shi Bob

    China should be divided into 7 parts and then become like the EU

    • realist

      Westerner’s wet dream

      • Shi Bob

        I’m not a westerner. you just are probably more comfortable with a monolithic authority figure. I prefer the diversity and hundred flowers of a warring states.

        • Realist

          Yes, I am more comfortable with a unified country that can focus on its rise. I do not like having my country split into 7 small warring states for countries like the US to pick on and attack like in the middle east.

          • Shi Bob

            i did mention unify like the EU, so you have certain national things like defense and trade, so your concern is averted. i don’t appreciate the destiny of so many people in the hands of a few. if stronger local autonomy and culture were possible, then fine, but’s it’s no coincidence that the only time a hundred flowers bloomed was in the warring states.

          • Realist

            The concern is absolutely not averted. 7 small countries could never rise, and could never fight as 1. The EU combined could not defend itself against a Russian invasion. ASEAN and the EU are groups of countries all looking for their own interests, unwilling to sacrifice for another member of the group. They bicker over trade, territories, everything. If Russia were to attack the EU, and the US could not defend it, and before the attack, Russia offered Slovakia and Poland immunity from the attack, do you think they would fight for the EU to honor their treaty or do you think they would side-step war to preserve themselves? 7 members of a club could never fight united like 7 members of a family. And about your hundred flowers, I don’t care much for flowers. I care about never allowing foreign troops to threaten Chinese territory.

          • Shi Bob

            geez, it doesn’t literally have to be exactly like the EU. It’s simply an example. It could be like the US, with a federation of states. Defense is important, but not the end-all, be-all. narrowminded

          • Realist

            No, defense IS the end-all, be-all. The last dynasty of China thought like you. They liked to sip tea and build gardens while Britain like to build warships. The British really showed them, that defense is the end-all, be all. You have nothing if your country cannot defend itself because a stronger nation can always find an excuse to take it away from you. Because of countries like the US, which likes to go around the world to the other side and wave its missiles around, telling people what to do, defense is everything (of course, you need a good economy to support your military or you’ll go the way of the Soviets).

          • realist

            Basically, if you have missiles, the US has words for you. If you have only words, then the US has missiles for you. Afghanistan and Iraq didn’t have missiles. China and Russia do. Which countries are buried in American troops, shooting people for target practice? If you ask me, it’s pretty hard to enjoy your hundred flowers when you know that a foreign soldier on a rooftop can snipe you dead if he doesn’t like your haircut today. Same with everyone you love.

          • TheSOP

            You really drink up the CCP koolaid dont you, with sheeple like you the CCP can continue plundering China and sending their ill gotten gains and offspring off to the American boogie man you are so obsessed about. Well let them have their oppressive government, but the second they start bullying other nations and stealing the lands and seas of Asians states the USA will put you in your place.

          • realist

            Oh, I must be imagining things, huh. The US? Attack people? That’s crazy talk. Lemme just go check for a second with the people in the middle east and see is they think the nice people of the US armed forced would do such a thing. Put China in it’s place? Seems to be harder and harder to do, doesn’t it? That’s exactly why I’m right.

          • TheSOP

            Oh, I must be imagining things, China attack people??! Let me just ask the Tibetans, Mongolians, Vietnamese, Filippinos, Indians, Central Asians whose lands have been usurped and colonized, the Koreans, the Russians, wow which neighbors has China not attacked yet? Which country is claiming the islands and seas of other Asian nations, is it the USA again?? Oh wait wait, its the Chinese?? Sa it aint so! Its almost as if China was and always has been an imperialist??

            Don’t worry I know lots of Chinese like you who dont know the first thing about Chinese history. Luckily there are Westerners and other Asians who will be happy to remind you.

            Oops is that your leg I just kicked out from under you, go ahead and lie in your puddle of tears thinking on this for a bit sanlu drinking fenqing borg.

          • whuddyasack

            You know SOP, you really are a nutcase. Not everyone that thinks the silly, lop-sided bashing of the CCP, PRC, “China” and the “mainland Chinese” and ALL “Chinese” is a sanlu drinking fenqing.

            Different people express things in different ways. Personally, I don’t go with the military route since I hate war and actually find it distasteful to glorify it. I can accept the need to honor the soldiers who fought, the civilians who died, the freedoms won but I could never understand the need to glorify the “war” itself.

            Which is why the US will “put you in your place” or “kill all Chinese” is something I find disturbing and realist probably does as well. The only person putting any one in their place is ME, putting you where you belong.

            While you might not like what realist says, if you actually do read it carefully and have an open-mind(important), you’d see that he does have reasonable points and his feelings. It’s a matter of give and take.

            But as we all know, you’re an adept “way cyst”, aren’t you, SOP? You POS. POS. POS. hahahaha

          • TheSOP

            You and your opinion can go find a bridge to jump off, I have zero empathy for a racist bigot like yourself or this realist sanlu drinker.

          • mr.wiener

            @323df32766604d15722fab20d316457e:disqus and @whuddyasack:disqus.
            I think we’ve had just about enough of the flaming war. In the future you two either keep it civil or avoid each other completely. You have both been moderated before and allowed back under the understanding that you will mend your ways.This hasn’t happened and I’m getting fed up with your intransigent yapping at each other ad infinitum ad nausium.
            If it makes you both feel any better I’ll kick the white troll’s arse off here and Kai can do the Asian one.
            Stop this NOW.

          • Germandude

            “You have both been moderated before”

            Does that mean that they “got wienered”? And if so, is it fun?

          • mr.wiener

            You’ll have to ask Mrs.wiener.

          • Germandude

            hahahaha

          • Probotector

            Oooooh he speaks Latin.

            We’re not worthy!!

          • whuddyasack

            Wacist, bigot, sanlu… maybe those words are what’s restricting you, no?

          • Shi Bob

            back to my original point, you can have national defense, but strong states rights without a overwhelming NPC and 1-party elite system. your comment about 100 flowers says alot about your vision of China. If you want to use Britain, they build warships and gardens at the same time. Qing dynasty wasnt about tea and gardens (though Dowager crippled China a lot), remember that it too started off as the martial Manchu banners. That China’s problem was that it was happy with the past. but that is a different story.

          • RothschildIsMoney

            Are you implying US before WWI? EU is more federalism than US today .
            Federalism may be a great idea. Too bad it doesn’t work for a long term solution. US started centralizing their government during the Industrial Era because federalism wasn’t working well enough. Federalism can result an inefficiency and hinder policy implication for further reform.

            A “Giant” nations such as China and the US can control money, natural resources and other things that we need to build our own societies more effectively. Large countries can use their Economies of Scale and their trade might to influence and control the others.

            Even Europe is heading toward a centralized government right now. Whilst sacrifice their cultural identities. Because the Europeans understand that the world is changing and Europeans have to come together to become world leaders.

          • Riddler

            ‘Federalism is disaster for China’

            Your English and IQ aren’t doing China any favours either.

          • RothschildIsMoney

            Sigh~ trollz always seek for attention. ckck..

          • Riddler

            Been reading ‘Currency Wars’ have we? Tsk, tsk….

            I should call you Nathan.

            Yes, yes. It is bedtime stories you are dealing with.

          • Riddler

            Hahahha….all that Rothschild stuff, we read as kids. How old ARE you? 12?

          • Robert Rou

            “It could be like the US, with a federation of states.”

            What exactly is it that you like about American federalism? Nothing wrong with the theory of federalism, but keep in mind the following:

            Most present-day American proponents of “state’s rights” are from the American South, object to Lincoln’s abolishment of slavery during the Civil War (they call him a fascist dictator), and are usually linked with the Confederate movement and/or have explicit links to white supremacist groups.

            Is this the kind of company you wish to keep? More importantly, given Chinese history, do you know the Chinese government’s role in liberating the Chinese people?

            Most Republicans like to say that Lincoln was the first Republican president, which is laughable because Honest Abe would never be a Republican today. He used the power of government to rid America of that abominable evil called slavery, which is a far cry from what the Republicans represent today.

          • David

            You really should learn American History before you post it in pubic for others to laugh at.

          • Robert Rou

            “You really should learn American History before you post it in pubic for others to laugh at.”

            If you’d like to engage in pedantry, have at it. I’d imagine you have a fairly small window to legitimately nitpick. And given your errors in just one sentence plus the gross mistruths by other posters, I certainly hope you don’t look foolish doing so.

          • David

            LMAO

          • David

            Where shall we start with how wrong you are in your post? The fact that Lincoln did not abolish slavery? The Emancipation Proclamation freed slaves in the slave states which rebelled, those 4 slave states that were still part of the union were not affected. It was not until after Lincoln was dead that the REPUBLICANS in Congress and the different states that were still allowed to participate pushed through the 13th Amendment and freed the slaves. No doubt Lincoln would have supported this effort if he had lived, but he did not. He did not even start the war to free slaves. The states succeeded after he was elected and before he became president. He said if he could keep the country together without freeing a single slave he would. Not that he was pro-slavery, he evolved in his thinking and certainly thought of it as a great evil in the end but did not think it was the Presidents duty to tell people how to run their lives. Try reading his private letters some time, they can be very interesting.

            The idea of states rights proponents being from the south is just silly. It falls much more along political lines then geographic. A Republican or Libertarian from Nebraska is much more likely to be a supporter of states rights (or more limited federal government) than a Democrat from Atlanta. The idea that they are linked to white supremacists groups is an example of the most blatant type of bigotry and ad hominem attack used by those who have no real argument. I will not even address the laughable idea of the current Chinese government “liberating” the Chinese people. Who were they liberated from?

          • Robert Rou

            “Where shall we start with how wrong you are in your post? The fact that Lincoln did not abolish slavery?”

            And what percent of Americans would agree with you on this? Like I said, you’re engaging in pedantics and technicalities, and thank you for proving me right. Ask any American and 99% will tell you that it was Lincoln (unless of course if you’re from the Deep South).

            There’s is a reason that Lincoln is generally regarded as one of America’s best presidents, not only for preserving the Union, but for abolishing slavery. His Emancipation Proclamation freed the majority of slaves (3.1 million of the 4 million slaves), and while, yes, the 13th Amendment was the official instance of complete abolition, credit is typically given to Lincoln because it would have happened under his watch, if not for his untimely death.

            To hand credit to the Republican Congress, rather than Lincoln, speaks more to your own biases and motives than me.

            Further, nearly all people today know that the political parties today are the reverse of what they were in Lincoln’s. Today’s Democratic Party would be the Republicans of yesteryear, and the Republicans of today would be the Democrats of yesteryear. The electoral map bears this out. All of the Deep South slave states are…. yes, Republican.

            “The idea of states rights proponents being from the south is just silly.”

            No, it is not. In nearly all of America, everyone learns that the Civil War was about preserving the Union and freeing the slaves. Only in the South, do they teach that it is called the “War of Northern Aggression” and that it was about state’s right, not slavery. The South does not teach its own history and have hijacked their own education system to give an alternate reality. Hell, they don’t even want to teach Darwinism or evolution, and instead want to teach “intelligent design.” It is an embarrassment.

          • David

            You really do know very little about history. It does nto matter if many other people do not understand history also, the fact is the EP only effected southern, slave owning states that were in rebellion. In other words, a place where he had no power to enforce it. It was a wonderful gesture, a politically important statement, leadership of a quality seldom seen in a President and totally devoid of any real legal ramifications until the war was won (by which time he was dead). I do not think this takes away from his action in any way. But the truth is much better than a legend. As far as what the parties stand for the idea is absurd. It was Democrats who created the KKK (including one of your wonderful Democratic Senators who was a high wizard in the KKK and a Democrat for almost 90 years until his death a few years ago), Black laws and then Jim Crow laws, enforced segregation (not just in the south but in many northern, Democratically controlled cities) and fought against the Civil rights movement. So when Johnson passed the civil rights laws he did it with the backing of Republicans in Congress and against the wishes of many Democrats, Just because Republicans have been branded racists by Democrats as a way to win the black vote does not make it so. I am sure there are ignorant people in the Republican party, just as in the Democratic party, As for your characterization of the “South” as if it is one monolithic entity, that is just prejudice of the worst kind. You are simply spouting stereotypes “everybody knows”. I am from the North (Chicago) so I have no need to defend the south from stupid and ignorant comments but to spread lies about an entire region that represents tens of millions of people is just disgusting. As a teacher I know teachers who work in the south and I would say what they teach their kids is no better or worse then what is taught anywhere else. It is 2013, nobody thinks the “South will rise again” except as an expression of southern pride (after all less than 3% of the population ever owned slaves, in the north or south). This argument has gotten stupid since the only answer you have is “everybody knows they are all redneck racist bastards who want blacks to be slaves again”.

          • Probotector

            I agree with your words, but can you tell me how and why the Democrats have branded the Republicans as racist, despite all this historical evidence to the contrary?

          • David

            Well, of course not every Democrat brands every Republican as a racist. But it is great for scoring liberal talking points on t.v.. It is a straw-man argument, if you disagree with a black president (him being half white and having been raised by a white mother and white grand parents never seem to make any difference) then you must be a racist. It is much easier to say this then actually engage in intelligent argument. Even when black Republicans criticize the President I have seen white Democrats call them “uncle Tom” or say “your not black enough”. While I have black republican friends who do not buy into that, 90% of blacks who vote have voted Democrat in the last 40 years (a little higher for President Obama in both his elections). The why is to keep a particular contingency voting their way. The reasons are many fold. Whether you think this is a good thing or a bad thing for African Americans would depend on your particular political philosophy. I am sure Democrats would say it is because they provide for poor people and that a large majority of African Americans are urban poor (as opposed to rural poor prior to the great migration). Up until the Civil rights movement most African Americans voted Republican (when they were able to vote). Anyway, I feel like we have highjacked the subject topic.

          • Robert Rou

            Telling history like a true Southerner! If you told me you’re from Pluto, I’d care not one bit. The reality is that all you write about including segregation, Jim Crow laws, the KKK applies to one region of the United States: the South.

            Having already pointed out that the political realities today are different than those of yesteryear, all that you write and all that you insinuate are nothing more than partial truths or gross mistruths. Your pointing out Dixiecrat senators like Robert Byrd matters not one bit because political party alignments shifted somewhere in the 60′s. The Democrats of today are on the left, and you of all people would know that the Dixiecrats were a far-right party.

            In regards to the Civil Rights Act, LBJ did only what JFK would have done. He didn’t have much of a choice after a presidential assassination. And you shouldn’t forget that many of us know exactly who LBJ was: his unbridled thirst for power, his envy of JFK’s widespread popularity, his handlers strong-arming Kennedy into giving him the VP nomination. It is no accident that rumors swirl around LBJ regarding JFK’s assassination in Dallas, LBJ’s own home turf. And which region of the US does that happen to be? Yep, you guessed it.

            “It is 2013, nobody thinks the “South will rise again” except as an expression of southern pride.”

            It is 2013 and yes we know you know Southern mythology very well. Welcome to the ways of TheSOP and peddling lies like the certified snake oil salesman that you are. Nice try.

          • David

            Now LBJ had Kennedy assassinated? So on top of everything else you are a conspiracy nut, that certainly explains a lot of your rantings. I am not a huge fan of LBJ either but I think you have finally jumped the shark on this discussion. Have a nice life in your bizarro world.

          • Robert Rou

            And when you get your ass handed to you over and over and over again, flail the arms and flap the mouth. You seem to be quite good at it.

          • David

            I do not know what kind of medication you are on, but you seem to have forgotten your daily dose. You went from ignorant and biased (but comprehensible) to delusional and incoherent..

          • Robert Rou

            From what I’ve seen, there is only one man that is ignorant and biased. Want to tell us all about current separtist movements in the US again? I think you’ve been reading a little too much KKK literature.

          • David

            What country are you from? You seem way too ignorant of even the simplest of information to actually be from the United States. People in separatist movements are not KKK members. The most vocal separatist movement currently is in Vermont, that cradle of the deep south.

          • Robert Rou

            “The most vocal separatist movement currently is in Vermont, that cradle of the deep south.”

            Sure anything you say! And you mentioned you were teaching children in China? There shouldn’t be a child near you anywhere within 10km radius, for many reasons.

          • Probotector

            The projects replaced the plantations, and the projects are Democrat policies.

          • Robert Rou

            If I remember correctly, you aren’t American, so I’m going to give you wide latitude for not understanding the American political landscape, past or present.

          • Probotector

            What I said is still true. Anyway, you’re suggesting that the Republicans of today have somehow betrayed the principles of Lincoln. How exactly?

          • Robert Rou

            Not really. Take a look at a recent electoral map, and see for yourself how rich states and poor states voting. Also, I can assure you that the so-called plantation states are no longer Democratic territory. In regards to Lincoln, I noted the reasoning above.

          • Probotector

            How the states vote is irrelevant, it’s the socialist policies of the Democrat party that are the issue. The Democrats encourage African-Americans to play the victim, collect food stamps and EBT cards in order to keep them under the thumb of the new socialism on the Democrat party.

            About Lincoln, you said:

            “Most Republicans like to say that Lincoln was the first Republican president, which is laughable because Honest Abe would never be a Republican today. He used the power of government to rid America of that abominable evil called slavery, which is a far cry from what the Republicans represent today.”

            Are you implying that the Republican party of 2013 wants to re-establish slavery?

          • Robert Rou

            “If Russia were to attack the EU…” , and the US could not defend it, and
            before the attack, Russia offered Slovakia and Poland immunity from the
            attack, do you think they would fight for the EU to honor their treaty
            or do you think they would side-step war to preserve themselves?”

            When was the last time Russia actually attacked the Western Europe? Now, when was the last time Europe attacked Russia? (Hint: Napoleon, Hitler, etc.) Europe has had designs on Russia for a very long time, and don’t forget in the most recent instance. Hitler and Stalin actually had a mutual defense treaty. We all know that Hitler said a big FU to that and started WW2.

          • TheSOP

            The sanlu flows deep in this sheep.

          • Realist

            Let me provide an example. The British have developed a fighter jet called the Eurofighter Typhoon. This jet is superb in aerial maneuvering but lacks good avionics and radar. The French have developed the Dassault Rafale, a jet that has a superb avionics suite called the SPECTRA, however, it’s agility in flight is lacking compared to that of the Typhoon. If they cooperated, they would have a jet that lacked nothing, but they refuse to cooperate, and instead, bid against each other, leaving customers with the awkward decision of choosing between an agile jet that is electronically stupid or a slower jet with better electronically-provided situation awareness. They are both EU members but they are NOT united.

          • Shi Bob

            I said “like the EU”. That makes it a simile, not literal. Take the federation of States if you want in the US. You can still have a unified defense force. My point really is that local government needs to be stronger and serve locals instead of being extensions of a central government and a small elite in the NPC. by your argument, we could have an enlightened despot back in the throne as long as he guaranteed national security. Automatons!

          • realist

            The transition is very difficult and could go wrong, ending up very poorly and I’d rather have a Chinese tyrant than foreign troops treat me like a second class citizen in my own country. But even then, it is questionable as to whether the US system is better. It could serve the people better, but it could cause national improvements to be too difficult. For example, if China wanted to build a rail-road, 1 committee would vote and they would tear down all the houses that were in the way. This causes a lot of suffering, however, the country now is better as a whole with a more efficient, state-of-the-art transport system. After 10 years, the suffering is history, but the railroad is splendid. However, if 50 states each had a veto and any old guy who refuses to move could halt the project, the nation could be at a loss to advance. This is exactly the case in the US right now.

          • Shi Bob

            a. you’re assuming national improvements are really for the nation (instead of some rich guy) and that the 2 are mutually exclusive (ie the road and the guy’s home).
            b. the individual is not that important
            that’s where I disagree. In such a China, the little guy is never important and the Party/NPC member will never have to lose his home. Well, I;m not NPC, so I need my individual rights protected.

          • realist

            How selfish! You need to be happy, even if it damages the nation. That could very well have an adverse effect on future generations. But as long as you’re happy, that’s what’s important. Yeah, China does not tolerate this attitude and I’m happy that that’s the case.

          • whuddyasack

            “I’d rather have a Chinese tyrant than foreign troops treat me like a second class citizen in my own country. But even then, it is questionable as to whether the US system is better. It could serve the people better, but it could cause national improvements to be too difficult.”

            I think that’s the crux of it all. Will foreign troops actually treat Chinese people better than the CCP? I think we all know the answer.

            Considering how little support China’s poor receives from the international community in general, I seriously doubt they have the “best interest of the Chinese people” in mind. In fact, China’s poor, farmers, prostitutes and sweatshop workers are treated with jokes, hatred and scorn.

            Sure, the PRC does have it’s issues with corruption, human rights abuses and overbearing control at times. I hate how they handle some foreign affairs and the lack of foresight sometimes.

            I also think they need to be firmer on some issues (not try to please everyone, be direct, increase scrutiny on foreign fugitives and refugees) and actually care for their people more (such as forced relocations, one-child policy discrimination AGAINST Han, excessive spending on luxury goods).

            Here are other things that I think can change. Don’t use their own children as human guinea pigs for American GM rice. No other country’s government accepted this. They need to revamp the adoption system. Make compassion and care for their fellow compatriots essential and provide resources that help Chinese people to start adopting their orphans.

            Prioritize it so that orphans are placed in the care of Chinese surrogates first, Han-majority nationals like HK/Taiwan/Singapore Chinese then, overseas Chinese next, followed by other Asians with priority to nations with low crime rates. If there are no same race foster parents available, we then offer other race people to adopt. Under NO circumstance should adoptive parents choose if they want a girl or boy.

        • Robert Rou

          “you just are probably more comfortable with a monolithic authority
          figure. I prefer the diversity and hundred flowers of a warring states.”

          It has nothing to do with a monolithic authority figure, and everything to do with the very security of your nation. You are a fool if you don’t think the rest of the world has designs on China in every way shape and form. History has already proven it over a century ago, and it will continue to prove itself until you can learn its lessons.

          For example, you think it’s an accident that the boundaries of Middle Eastern countries was gerrymandered by the British? The same for all the nations of Africa? What happened to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigenes? You are a fool if you cannot see the writing on the wall.

          According to mainstream history WW2 everyone thinks the losers are the Axis. No, the real losers were Korea, Vietnam, Palestine, among others, who outright had their nations divided or are still fighting for statehood. They had nothing to do with the war, yet to this day, people like the Palestinians are still paying for the sins of Hitler Germany. You put yourself in a very grave position if you willingly want to divide your own nation.

          If you as a Chinese can’t even realize that you are next, even after NSA/GCHQ has openly and unapologetically attacked you, then you really need to have your head examined.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            What happened to the Native Americans and Australian Aborigenes?

            they are their own worst enemy when it comes to playing the victim card, all while sponging off the benefits the white man, and it was the white man, not the asian man, that brought those benefits to them.

          • Shi Bob

            If you read below, I’ve already said this isn’t a concern of national defense, but of state and local rights and powers serving locally, instead of being controlled and dictated by a select few in Beijing.
            What I’m addressing is really domestic in nature, while the rest of you are hung up on the xenophobia and invasion fears, etc.

      • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

        Grow up and learn to accept constructive criticism.

        • realist

          How’s your mother’s vagina doing with 30 million people inside? Better hope she doesn’t get a yeast infection cus that’s bad for real estate prices and I don’t think the western economies can afford to take another dive :(

          • Nessquick Choco

            Are you serious ? And you say something about my posts ? This they taught you on international law classes , yea ?

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            you are just aiming at personal insults, but deep inside, you know I am right. I tend to agree western economies cannot afford to take another dive however.

          • Kai

            You’re on his nuts as much as he is on yours in terms of the level of petty insults and harrassment. One of you needs to be the bigger man and stop it.

            You are not stupid enough to think the suggestion of splitting up another country is going to be universally seen as “constructive” criticism.

            You are likewise not stupid enough to not understand why a person like Realist would think some Westerners would love to see China divided thus mitigating the threat of a larger China.

            Come on, let’s TRY to be intellectually honest…

          • whuddyasack

            That’s true. I mean we all know how Canadians and Americans treat “separatists” and “dissenters”. If someone were to suggest California being it’s own country, Hawaii should gain it’s own independence and “Hongcouver” a completely autonomous region, and seriously pass that off as “constructive criticism”, believe me when I say, sparks will fly.

          • TheSOP

            You are full on retarded, a liar, and as we well know a racist. Hawaiian independent activists operate openly and actively in Hawaii, at the state level in the universities and occasionally with federal funding at some larger level think tanks, not only preaching to US students but also foreign students. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I can see why an ignorant bigot like you has the world view you do; you dont know shit about the US, and you sure as hell dont know shit about China or Asia. Fucking noob, seriously you are a 16 year old Asian American with hormonal and acceptance issues, I’d put money on it. Let me put this bluntly; you will never know as much about the USA, Asia, or the world as a WAM like myself.

          • whuddyasack

            You use the word racist, but do you really know what the hell you’re talking about? I’m racist for defending my own people when they’re unfairly abused? It’s wrong for me to feel sickened by that “Kill all Chinese” Kimmel show and the uncivilized rancor following from the usual neckbeards? Oh, snap. That’s because you’re that neckbeard hahaha. Hey man, so Chinese, Singaporeans, HKese, Chinese Americans, achieve something for their hard work, but I didn’t know it was wacist to feel happy for their success.

            You think I should see fellow Chinese getting ganged up here just for speaking up their mind? Lucieee was minding her own business, speaking her mind in a civil manner when that wacko little uber Eu AMI jumped on her like a savage from Africa. I don’t even like seeing fellow Asians abused unfairly. No one does, but hey mang, Asians standing up for ourselves is “wacist”. You’re kidding right?

            “seriously you are a 16 year old Asian American with hormonal and acceptance issues, I’d put money on it.”

            I don’t have multiple accounts and Steven isn’t me, if that’s what you’re implying. He’s a good guy though. Also, you’re just assuming stuff, how do you even tell someone’s age online lol.

            The word noob is often used in video games, particularly MMOs and games like Call of Duty and Halo. I think it’s you that’s inadvertently revealed more of your age. Look, CoD isn’t real no matter how high and patriotic it makes you feel. Lay off that stuff.

            >Acceptance issues?
            What the heck?

            And you’re wrong. I know more about the US, Asia and the world than a WAM like yourself, whose vocab is limited to wacist, bigot, fenqing and sanlu.

          • whuddyasack

            Here you go, theSOP thePOS.

            Non-military action, democracy…

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2012/11/15/how-the-u-s-military-would-crush-a-tea-party-rebellion/

            The thing is no government is going to give up without a fight, and woe befalls anyone who opposes the US. If I were the leader of a nation that is not America, and declares war on America (no one is that stupid, lol) I know I’d be pissed scared.

            But then again, real life isn’t like CoD. POS, you thinking of joining the military anytime soon? Hopefully when you do, you try not to do anything POScrazy

          • realist

            I told you why I am just going for personal insults. Because an ignorant person like you, who thinks 30 million Chinese people live in caves, needs to do much more research before coming here to discuss. But you don’t research, but discuss anyway, so what you say is trash. It’s not possible that what an ignorant person like you can say is right, so personal insults is basically what’s left since your lack of knowledge means that we cannot have a intelligent debate.

          • http://www.churchofsatan.com/ Donald_Pleasance

            http://www.a1social.com/2012/03/china-more-than-30-million-people-live-in-caves/

            Tell it to that old guy and take a hike. One verifiable url of many. You come back with your bare faced lying confucian crap, and you can get stuffed!!!!

    • RothschildIsMoney

      And you’ll have a civil war. Good luck with that.

    • Zhao Xin

      See when I lose faith in the PRC government, I will come here to find hateful comments like this and reboot my nationalist spark.

      Westerners never fails me.

      • Probotector

        But English does.

      • Shi Bob

        how unsurprising typical response. Since my opinion doesn’t conform to yours, I’m just assumed to be a “Westerner.” haha. You answer says so much about mentality of Chinese automatons.

  • Cauffiel

    I had a Taiwanese friend in another city…. he was really mostly American but had close “tai”s (haha) to his family on the island. He told me what a lot of Taiwanese believe is that the Mainland sold them out repeatedly over history. Taiwan changed hands between China, Russia, and Japan more than once. Any time they had to sign a treaty, it was Taiwan that got the boot. So I suppose a lot of them feel like they owe nothing, especially allegiance, to the Mainland.

  • TBone

    Fuck the PRC. Go Taiwan. Chthonic #1 band

  • 用开水烫我!

    a tiny dog barks,who really cares for it so much?
    of course,tiny dogs always like to bark loud to feel safe.
    here i mean these anti-china ww.

    • Nessquick Choco

      So why you barking here again ?

      • 用开水烫我!

        go home train your son to bark.

        • Nessquick Choco

          Why ? He is human. Not dog.

    • Germandude

      All these dogs barking. All this shit on the street…

      • 用开水烫我!

        in your mouth!

        • Nessquick Choco

          when arguments missing …

        • Germandude

          I am wondering. I said “shit on the street”. Don’t know why you feel the need to come up explaining your sexual preferences, but shit in your mouth is rather disgusting if you ask me.

          • 用开水烫我!

            you say things without any clue all by your mouth, that’s why in your mouth.
            no need to mention any dirty things…go bark for more sausage!

          • Germandude

            Interesting. I think you didn’t understand my 1st post at all but felt the need to throw some insults.

            用开水烫我! why all this hate? Why not going to church, praying for wisdom?

          • mr.wiener

            She needs to be washed in the blood of the lamb.

    • the ace of books

      To extend your analogy, I’d like to ask you in seriousness: why does China bark?

    • linette lee

      You don’t want Taiwan citizenship if they give it to you and your family? lol.
      You don’t want freedom? Or money is more important than freedom?

      • Germandude

        True freedom can only be found by walking the path of Jesus Christ.

        • linette lee

          What was that you said to me again? Born stupid, didn’t learn anything, died stupid. Is that going to be your CV?

          I see you don’t know how to behave with me. Would you like me to teach you?

          • Germandude

            If I recall correctly, I asked you if you want that to be your CV. I didn’t say it was going to be your CV.
            You still have the chance to follow the path of god, reach infinite wisdom and share your wine and bread with me and anybody else on chinaSMACK. As you can see, god’s generosity is great.

          • linette lee

            You told me while back you don’t believe in God. You are a bad boy. A sinner. I know that already.

          • Germandude

            Why would I not believe in an entity that created the planet that we all live on. A superpower that basically decides our future and that is so strong that even the United States of America fear?
            Besides that, let me ask you a question: When was the last time you said “Holy shit” or “God damn”?

          • linette lee

            kekekeke…..;)

          • Germandude

            That’s not a sufficient answer to my question.

          • jin

            I just said god damn yesterday and this morning some holy shit came out of my ass. Im going to hell for this wont I…….

          • Riddler

            Yes.

          • Germandude

            Son. I want to see you in church on sunday morning. You seem to have some misconceptions about shit. Your shit isn’t holy. In fact, to even think that shit can be holy just shows me that you have either failed to walk the path of Jesus Christ or that you have been brainwashed by islamic fundamentalists.
            If I wasn’t so keen on drinking beer, I would have converted to islam ’cause 99 virgins sounds like a good deal. However, amusing myself with so many girls in one night without being able to drink a beer during the breaks sounds bad, given my nationality.
            In the end, Christianity will win. We can have beer, loads of it, and then we can still have imaginary sex with 99 virgins. See now why the path of Jesus Christ is the dominant one?

          • linette lee

            You need to see me to confess your sins.

          • vincent_t

            Oh I wish i could my friend, but thinking that the superpower merciless made the dinosaur extinct, I would prefer to go for humanity and moral instead.

      • 用开水烫我!

        ???
        why i need it?
        i do not think most chinese are interested in this!

        • linette lee

          You get to get out of China and travel anywhere you want in the world more easy. You get to call up the Taiwan president and complain about his budget plan without being arrested and send to jail. You can go protest in front of the taiwan gov’t building without getting into trouble. You can challenge the gov’t. Those are all your rights and freedom that you won’t get as China citizen in China.

          Or you think money is more important than rights and freedom.

          • 用开水烫我!

            hmm, i understand what you mean.
            china will change, new generation will change china. at the start of a new gov built, do need a bossy gov.
            one thing can not deny is, out living is really much better. now we can accuse our gov already.when mao’s time, even said some causal thing pronounce similar as mao would be punished.

          • Nessquick Choco

            Keep dreaming. For myself, I wish China is better, but you , many chinese people, are doing everything against it. Look around, and tell me, does your grandpa litter that much rubbish ? I know, now you can, because you have money to buy the cake, which is wraped in 3 different plastic bags. why the hell need this ? and there is so many people, who are cleaning the streets after my littering. so , why to bother ? right ?

          • Guang Xiang

            Medal of honor for able to talk some sense to the above!

          • linette lee

            bunny is just immature. hehehe.

          • realist

            Spoken like a true person who only understands China through western or ROC media. Freedom? I have lived in China for a long time, but longer in the US. In neither country have I felt more free than in the other. Maybe because I’m not a trouble-maker. I like to take care of my family, do my job, buy my groceries. I don’t like to spend my afternoon holding up a sign in front of government buildings. So in China, I am 100% free. If you are the natural-born trouble-maker, and you like to protest, then China is not a good place for you. But those freedoms you speak of, are a waste of time for me and I will never exercise them, so I don’t care if they exist. What is important for me, is national pride, belonging to a proud nation that is strong enough to defend its people. That is important, not those false freedoms you speak of. Money is important too LOL

          • vincent_t

            Oh yes, money is so important. No wonder all the gutter oils, the fake eggs, the extremely expansive medical bill. I hope you will still say you have freedom, when the local government official chase you out from your land, and you got beaten up half dead just to ask for appeal. Your thinking is not helping China.

          • Probotector

            I agree that the West’s obsession with ‘freedom’ simply means the right to vote and to protest. Well, who gives a shit about that? I have exercised both rights in my time and they did nothing. ‘Freedom’ for me is the personal freedom to go about my business without being harassed/arrested for it. I’m afraid to say that in China they have more personal freedom to go about their business than we do in some western countries, for sure.

          • linette lee

            You mean if you are natural born law breaker, China is a “more free” place for you. All you need to do if give the China gov’t red envelopes and you can buy your way out of trouble with law. In other countries you will go to jail for that.

            And you should be happy if you are able to voice your disagreements with the gov’t without being arrested or death sentence.

            China is only good place to live for the rich and powerful. Not for the poor.
            I like money too. Who doesn’t, but not enough to give up my rights, freedom, and safety for my whole family.

          • David

            Amen sister!!!

        • linette lee

          Or how about HK ID? If they give you HK ID for your whole family. You don’t like that? You can even migrate to western countries more easy and don’t have to give up your HK citizenship because you will be allowed dual citizenship. Do you like freedom?

          Or you think money is more important than rights and freedom?

        • Jeff

          We all know that deep inside Chinese want Japanese or USA citizenship. ANYTHING but Chinese….

          • realist

            The garbage, weak Chinese want that. The strong Chinese, the people who can actually contribute to a nation, all know that there is only 1 home for Chinese people, and that is China. You can only live proudly in your own nation; if you go anywhere else and complain about your country, people will see you as weak, foreign trash here to live the soft life. Everyone who pursues greatness will realize this before they achieve that greatness, and this will cause them to want to return to their motherland. The people who have no aspirations greater than being alive, may never see this, and that’s ok.

          • Probotector

            Not if your own nation betrays you, you can’t. In any case, there’s more reasons why a someone lives abroad, other than “they’re weak” and “foreign trash”.

    • Probotector

      I know, North Korea sucks!

  • radbab

    I, for one, welcome our new Taiwanese overlords. Please bring us better internet!

  • Jeff

    If it’s not an international flight why do many people need a visa and everyone needs a passport to go back and forth?

    • Nessquick Choco

      Because you don’t understand china :-)))

      • Jahar

        you mean you CAN’T understand, because you are not a Chinese

        • Nessquick Choco

          In other words, is the same meaning. :-)

          • Cauffiel

            Jahars words mean something different. It is not the same meaning.

    • Cauffiel

      Its ok, China doesn’t understand China either.

      • Riddler

        Uh no, China does understand China VERY well. Let’s put aside all the sarcasm for a moment. I mean think about it. None of our mainland Chinese friends are pretending there is no work to be done to improve, unlike us in the west, who prate about democratic rights while pissing on the world.

        Seriously, for every sarcastic, degrading comment we leave regarding China, we create further antagonism. And to which end? For a bloody up vote?

        I for one am guilty of this, probably, actually fuck it, not probably, more than anyone here. And I say this openly. I have been rather obnoxious and intend to change this. And apologise to all my Chinese friends and hope they are bigger than me and allow me an opportunity to change my thoughts, or do I just change my name here and come back posting pro China posts? It wouldn’t mean anything. Change must be public.

        Sorry to all you Chinese brothers and sisters. Sincerely.

        ps, for once, i’d be glad to see down votes.

        • Cauffiel

          You just made my diarrhea come back.

          • Riddler

            Don’t shit in the street whatever you do.

          • Cauffiel

            Looks like everyone ignored your contrition, man…. which apparently you tried to delete anyway. No upvotes OR downvotes. Thats like one big slap in the face. :-D

          • Riddler

            I deleted it after reading ‘manoftheearth’s comments. In case you slipped your attention, your comments received little attention also. Except from me.

            Thank me immediately.

          • Kai

            I appreciated it and I’m sad he decided to disavow it.

    • Kai

      There has been a few comments like this so far in this thread (and every thread about Taiwan). I’m starting to wonder if some people really don’t understand that it is a political game of semantics. It’s literally playing stupid in order to avoid a problematic question that both sides agree would be better off left unanswered for the moment.

      I think once people understand this, there won’t be so many comments trying to correct the “obvious falsehoods” the politicians say in this situation. Imagine Ma Ying-jeou’s reaction if you were to say this to him. He’d just look at you and blink in consternation. It’s an open secret that Taiwan and China are de facto different countries. They just maintain a public lie in order to avoid political, economic, and possible military problems.

      • Riddler

        “He’d just look at you and blink in consternation.”

        Excellent! hahahah!

    • DavidisDawei

      Frequent travelers between USA and Canada can elect to participate in a program designed to simplify/fast-track the process…perhaps China and Taiwan have something similar?

  • mr.wiener

    Just when was hoping for a “palate cleanser” , we get an article on Taiwan independance…..Oh dear.

  • markus peg

    breaking news:
    Xi Jinping was quoted in response to Ma’s comment as saying “LMFAO” on China daily :D

  • Jarl Balgruff

    i do hope taiwan gains control of mainland china. If China were like Taiwan, it will be heaps better country

  • RothschildIsMoney

    ChinaSmack is more attractive to ignorant liberals trolllz i see..

    • mr.wiener

      We got plenty of the other kind too Reila. Go chat with the insecure fellow in the previous story.

      • RothschildIsMoney

        Haha.. You can see my ip address?

        • KAMIKAZIPILOT

          Haven’t you ever heard of NSA? Nothing you ever do on the internet is 100% secure. Just remember that.

        • Riddler

          Not sure about IP but your IQ is apparent.

          • RothschildIsMoney

            I’m pretty sure my IQ is higher than yours lib boy.

          • Riddler

            ‘than yours’

          • RothschildIsMoney

            Thank lib boy. Fixed for ya.

          • Riddler

            ‘Thanks’

          • Riddler

            So, can we move beyond the insults?

          • Riddler

            ‘Thanks’

          • Germandude

            Yes, I agree. Since when would you go the “lib way of life”, discussing with reasons and facts? Go republican and your life is easier, because not just the trust in god will solve any problems, it also saves time when you can win arguments by simply shouting louder than your opponent.

            Connecting your use of “lib boy” as an insult (lol, how simple-minded and retarded), with your name “RothschildIsMoney” and I am pretty sure to already know from which corner you are coming from. I am trying to ignore stereotypes but you simply fit perfectly. Do you understand that, hillbilly?
            Now go to the mass before you are going to the shooting range.

          • RothschildIsMoney

            Wow..

            Other person was name calling at me first and now you just jump in and labelled me as “shouting louder to win arguments”? *facepalm

            Are you upset because i don’t like rainbow liberals?

            FYI i’m not republican nor conservative. k.

          • Probotector

            Libertarian then?

          • Germandude

            Except if disqus is fucking me up, the first comment on this conversation line is:

            “ChinaSmack is more attractive to ignorant liberals trolllz i see..” posted by you, named as RothschildIsMoney

            liberals trolllz and your name are enough to justify giving you some.

            You might want to seek enlightenment by going to church on sunday. God’s doors are always open.

          • RothschildIsMoney

            Well, you don’t know me. You judge me solely based on prejudice outlook. And your limited intellectual capability enforce that idiocy.

            Look kid, there’s no outcome in this stupid conversation. You obviously upset because you are liberal. Which is why you keep replying to my comments.

          • Probotector

            It really is amazing how you try so hard to make it clear that, as a German, you are opposed to anything resembling what could be construed as “right wing”. Guilty much?

          • Germandude

            Guilty much? Guilty for what? I am strictly against the “right wing”, cause those are the simple-minded fools. And I am against US Republicans and Tea-party members/followers. And I drink coffee, don’t like tea and wear my hair short. I don’t like communism, hate hippies, but I think socialism as currently present in many countries of Europe is great.
            This weekend I watch some football, drink some beer and probably cook at home together with my wife.
            I feel guilty of writing this reply because I think I don’t need to justify myself.
            A guy naming himself “RothschildIsMoney” and throwing “lib” to others as a kind of insult, is crying for some flag. Which I tried to give with a short explanation. If you interpret some guilt feeling into this. Well, interesting I suppose.

          • Probotector

            Being right wing, in it’s basic form is about being conservative with your moral and social value system as well as politically. I agree that there are some who are more insane about it, although I’m not sure it’s all Republicans and Tea Party members. Could you explain what you have against them exactly?

            I’m not sure how drinking coffee and having short hair is relevant. Good for you?

            I am glad to hear you don’t like Communism or Liberalism, it’s a start at least. but in that case, where do your loyalties lie? Are you proud of your country? I would certainly be if I were you.

            If you don’t justify yourself, how can anyone understand or know you?

          • Germandude

            Oh man, you got me there. I try to hit all your points. If you vote Republican/Tea Party as a US citizen, I am not against you personally. There is not much choice with voting. And just because someone votes for one party, doesn’t mean that he necessarily agrees with everything of that party.
            However, I have a problem with many republicans because they use the reasoning of 5 year olds. Take a complex problem, simplify it and give solutions that are even simpler. Fox News is a perfect example of that. Bill O’Reilly is a perfect example of being a retarded simpleton.
            Anyways, not to bash too much against the US, talking Germany, I didn’t vote this year. Simply because there is no party that I feel was worth voting for. I hate Merkel and the Christian-Democratic-Party.
            Another thing I like to bash against is the church, or religions, because Religions are targeting on the simpletons and making money out of it.

            Having short hair and drinking coffee has no relevance, but since I didn’t understand your post before, I thought I just throw some meaningless sense to it. What shall I feel guilty for? Drinking coffee or having short hair?

            Am I proud of my country? Yes, I am. I am proud of it being a great place to live in, since it gives people all chances they could think off, while its not forgetting to reach out a hand to those in need. Do I think Germany is perfect? No, hell no. Too much shit going on that needs improvement.
            Where do my loyalties lie? My wife, my family, my football club and then my country. Would I be willing to give my life for any of it? Wife and family under any circumstances, my football club not so much. My country? If it got attacked probably…

            Why is there a need for me to justify myself?
            There is no need for anybody here to justify himself. I know I am criticizing China and especially the US far too much. Does that mean that I don’t like Chinese or Americans? Hell no.
            I dislike ignorant people. Running around with the name “RothschieldIsMoney” is basically like running around “IAmAnIdiot”. Idiots deserve headwind.

      • KAMIKAZIPILOT

        What is that in your avatar? Is that you? A little early for Halloween don’t you think.

    • Riddler

      Why did it attract you?

  • Riddler

    …..

    • anon

      Hohoho

      • Riddler

        Play with that often do you?

  • don mario

    Ma doesn’t represent taiwan, he is just some china cocksucker and i hope he goes away FAST because taiwan is heading staight for chinas butthole from the sabotage he is currently committing.

  • vincent_t

    To be very honest, although I bash a lot about China and make fun of it (which I apologize). I hope to see China improve and 1 day, it could be on-par with Taiwan, not in term of GDP, nor military power, but the culture and civilization. China would have be so much more respected, and trusted if and only they hold the value that hold by Taiwanese. But unfortunately, China doesn’t. It either lost the value during Culture Revolution or simply after decades of ruling under farmers, that is why you see the fears in the neighboring nations on her rise.

  • Probotector

    His position is laughable. Taiwan has no realistic ability to reclaim the mainland, nor a realistic claim to it, yet in Taiwan they still think of it as “land in rebellion” or something. Now, the mainland has no claim to Taiwan wither, but I’m afraid I can’t support this man.

    • anon

      The solution is for Taiwan to unite with the mainland and become a province of China again. Taiwan can retain its present system like Hong Kong as proposed many years ago.

  • LYs

    I really love politics! XD

  • maybeabanana

    Here is what I have read from http://apple.slashdot.org/story/13/10/30/1339219/taiwan-protests-apple-maps-that-show-island-as-province-of-china, where it summarizes my view of territorial debates.

    From user siew : ”

    The current status
    of Taiwan probably most similar to that of Germany. Where Germany was
    divided up into 4 zones after the war (US, UK, France, Russia), Taiwan
    is apparently effectively a US occupied zone until its fate is
    determined. It was recognized as an occupied territory of Japan
    before/during the war, but required that Japan relinquish control of
    Taiwan (and other territories acquired before the war) as a penalty for
    pre-war territorial aggressions. However, the treaty never specified to
    which government it was to go to (mainly because of the civil war
    between the ROC and the PROC which happened at the end of WWII).

    The
    Treaty of Taipei (a separate peace treaty between Japan and the ROC,
    since abrogated by Japan when they recognized the PROC government),
    specifically ceded Taiwan to the ROC government. It’s sort of a title
    to Taiwan that the ROC has waived around in the past, but it is unclear
    how the PROC ultimately winning the civil war affected the status of
    this document.

    The US is pretty much in a conundrum. It could
    probably legally cede Taiwan to the PROC under the theory promulgated by
    the Treaty of San Francisco (give the island back to the country had it
    before Japan took it, this is what the UK wanted to do), or they can do
    nothing and claim that this is an internal issue between the ROC and
    PROC governments (I believe this is the continuing official US stance
    since the treaty), or they might twist the treaty wording and assert
    that Taiwan has the right to self-determination (which is of course what
    the US wants to do, but is opposed by the PROC and probably is too far a
    twist from a legal sense).

    Originally, the US was sitting on its
    treaty status over Taiwan as part of a greater anti-communist
    sphere-of-influence policy. Now, it is probably merely attempting to
    get better terms for a PROC takeover by sitting on their hands until
    they get a deal that Taiwan is okay with. This has basically stalled
    because Taiwan doesn’t appear that it would be happy with any PROC
    takeover (however, they are no-doubt looking at the Hong Kong 2-system
    situation with great interest).”

  • Eileithyia

    alot of China’s territory belong to the Mongol Empire. The Song Dynasty is small compare Yuan(Mongol), Ming, Qing(Manchus).

    Song never own Diaoyu/Senkaku islands, it was the Mongol ‘s Yuan empire who got that island, then Ming stole from it.

    Japan, China, Taiwan needs to return those land to mongol.

    • vincent_t

      Sure, most of Europe should return to Mongol too, u genius

      • anon

        SOUNDS LIKE A MARVELLOUS IDEA! SUPPORT!

  • anon

    BETTER IDEA- CHINA UNITE WITH USA & USA LET 500 MILLION CHINESE LIVE IN USA.. STILL PLENTY OF SPACE THERE. OR UNITE WITH AUSTRALIA FOR SAME IDEA!

  • mike921

    Since the PLA obviously isn’t up to the task (look pretty, but no experience), perhaps the Beijing gangsters can send the chengguan to handle the matter….

  • cheering

    One is big country with a lot of people, another a smaller island with lesser people, the other side got guns, bombs and nukes, the smaller side got guns, bombs as well but no nuke…. big army beat small small, strong beat weak seems to reality in the world. We like David vs Goliath, but unfortunate, reality, Goliath always win as much we want to cheer for David…cheering is nice, it gives hope, hope miracle happen….miracle can happen, miracle will happen for those have faith. But time will time…..in eternity, David vs Goliath….what a betting man choice… time will tell, only time will tell…..go David…go….

  • Zhang Lu

    Taiwanese politics is much more complex now. Most outsiders will be pretty surprised at the amount of…nationalism on certain issues.

  • Zhabei

    It is interesting that you should mention that becasue, actually that is quite similar to the relationship between China and Taiwan prior to 1945-1949. Around 1700, when the Island was made part of the Chinese empire the emperor expressed the sentiment that Taiwan was “the size of a pellet;
    taking it is no gain; not taking it is no loss” (彈丸之地。得之無所加,不得無所損). His
    ministers counseled that the island was “a ball of mud beyond the sea,
    adding nothing to the breadth of China” (海外泥丸,不足為中國加廣), and advocated
    removing all the Chinese to mainland China and abandoning the island. The island was not made a province until 1885, only 10 years before it became part of Japan.

  • angry laowai

    some of the chinese netizens comments are ridiculous!!
    chinese need to learn that when their current attitudes…they will never be a super power…

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