Red Tourism and Sino-Japanese War Reenactors, Online Reactions

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From QQ:

“Devil Soldiers” of the Red Tourism Scenic Area

In Wuxiang Shanxi, there are a group of grassroots actors doing relatively realistic portrayal of the Second Sino-Japanese War every single day. Without the use of absurd dialogues, amazing martial arts, or even attractive women, they were still able to move the audience to tears. Because their portrayal is so realistic, often times the “devils” and the “translator” [collaborators] were beaten up by the tourists. Reporters recently visited these grassroots actors to unravel how these “devils” [derogatory term for Japanese soldiers] and “translators” live their two-faced lives onstage and offstage. With every showing of the show Anti-extermination, the “devil” played by Yang Lei must be killed by an “Eighth Route Army” soldier. In the past four years he has already “died” over 6,000 times.

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Yang Lei using a marker to draw his mustache before going on stage.

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Liu Chuan was initially cast as an “Eighth Route Army” soldier, but as soon as he donned the uniform, the director decided he was the perfect choice to play the “devil”.

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Liu Chuan plays a “devil” motorcycle rider in Anti-extermination, he must ride his bike to jump over a 2 meter tall wall. He is the only stunts actor in the entire acting troupe.

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April 6th, the last day of the Qingming Festival, many tourists arrived to watch Anti-extermination.

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A scene in Anti-extermination enters its climax when the “devil officer” played by Yang Lei kills a Chinese villager. Also at this very moment, he was bombarded by plastic bottles and shoes from the audience.

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After the performance, the entire cast thank the audience. The audience also gathered around the stage, not wanting to leave.

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After the show during the day was over, Yang Lei (right) and Liu Chuan (left) starts to rehearse for the show Taihang Guerrilla Force.

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Apart from playing the “devil officer”, Yang Lei as the troupe leader often directs other actors.

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The real-life Yang Lei and Liu Chuan enjoys playing mobile games with their friends online.

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As the landmark structure in the old Sino-Japanese War battleground in Wuxiang, there are two rifle statues at the gate of the Eighth Route Army Cultural Park.

Comments on QQ:

海纳百川:

Chinese people can never face true history. The Japanese army at the time was five times more powerful than the Chinese army. We won because of attrition and America’s nuclear bomb! Today’s absurd dramas are retarded, distorting history to mislead the audience, it never show the true brutality of war! In a hard won victory, only when we face up to history can we move in the right direction forward.

爆棚的番茄酱:

Really, these actors playing antagonists should be paid more than those playing protagonists.

记忆花园:

An absurd show that deceive not just ourselves but others as well. What would the children think, if they [Japanese] are so retarded why did it take over 8 years to fight the devils.

ლ(´ε`ლ) /qq:

Fuck, fighting devils everyday, what else do you know besides fighting devils.

苍狼:

So laughable.

☞⑩偶,娶倪!☜:

Can I ask the writer. Before the liberation did China have off-road motorcycles?

雲0o少爷o:

History is written by the victors. No matter what reason, China won, so the winner is always right and the loser always wrong.

嗳不起de`情:

In reality they are only entertaining themselves or just entertaining audiences who do not understand history!

春华秋月:

In the eyes of our future generations, the devils were not defeated by the Eighth Route Army or the New Fourth Army, instead they were wiped out by the Chinese entertainment industry.

Written by Joe

Joe is a documentary producer and journalist based in Shanghai

  • Germandude

    Great comments. Not just because there are comments under an article again, but really. Great comments!

  • Xia

    This one looks like true chinaSMACK. Great to have you back!

  • Chaz

    It isn’t “re-enactment” if the Chinese are brave, selfless, strong and victorious against the Jappers…
    It’s pure fiction.

  • gregblandino

    Good to see the return to the old format.

  • Xia

    The real battles were much more bloody and on heaps of dead Chinese soldiers.

  • JayJay

    Finally!! Good post!

    • mr.wiener

      But no japanese soldiers got ripped in half!

      • JayJay

        Is this a recycled post?? The first related story here you can see at the bottom of the story has the same thing which was posted back in October 2014.

  • MeiDaxia

    That motorcycle…

    • Mighty曹

      Too futuristic for that era.

  • Hitler was Japanese?

  • Mighty曹

    LMAO! “relatively realistic portrayal” has never been more subjective. Relative stereotyping is more like it, starting with that Hitler mustache. And that bike!

  • guest

    The soldiers fighting the Japanese invaders are wearing the wrong uniform – it was the KMT that confronted the invaders while the Red Army was in hiding!

  • helsic

    yessssssss. Finally I see some sense in the netizens comments. I’m glad to see that not everyone is brainwashed by the government!

  • daz

    If Tarantino did this, he’d be rocking the joint. If a Chinese does it, they’ve obviously been brainwashed by communists. Let people enjoy bullshit fantasy. It sure beats the reality.

    • Alex Dương

      I would so pay to see Tarantino do Inglourious Basterds 2 set in China.

      • Jahar

        I’d pay to see the first one again. In a theater with hot, buttered popcorn and reasonable volume, anyway.

        • Alex Dương

          Yep, a theater with a good sound system really brings out the soundtrack.

      • dusjanbe

        With Americans saving Chinese ! Most of crew will be white males and throw in an Asian female as a guide for the group in China, and as a romatic interest for the white male protagonist.

        Then it will sell like hot cakes, even in China.

        • Alex Dương

          I think you’ve confused Tarantino with Shyamalan.

    • Insomnicide

      The difference is, it’s not just one crazy action flick. It’s several, hundreds of TV dramas that pollute our television. And now they’re turning it into a tourism scheme.

    • dusjanbe

      People don’t smash Germans car or throwing projectile at anything that look like “German language” written on them after a Tarantino movie, video games, books, tv-drama about the Nazis.

      Many Chinese do all of that and you are teliing me that they are not “brainwashed” ? The problem is CCP endorsment, i don’t see any German or American politicians/party getting involves in “Nazis entertainment”

      • Alex Dương

        In Germany, you can’t deny the Holocaust. In Japan, you can deny that Japan did anything wrong in China, Korea, etc. during WWII.

        • Vance

          Why is that do you think? Because the death camps were right there in Germany with the German civilians being made to view them after they were defeated, and what the Japanese did was “over there” so that most of the population did not see it?

          • Alex Dương

            These issues were foolishly swept under the rug in the immediate aftermath of WWII. IMO, if the Showa Emperor had been “allowed” to apologize, a lot of this bad blood could have been avoided.

          • Vance

            I will have to read up on that, but I thought that the Emperor had to issue apologies along with recanting his “divinity” as part of the surrender conditions.

          • Alex Dương

            He had to recant his divinity, but he never issued the apology he wanted to give.

          • Vance

            Thanks for the link. Very educational. It does sound like official apologies have been made, but not as strongly worded as Hirohito’s intended speech text so the various victims have not yet accepted the official apology given in 1992.

      • Roger Stetson

        At least the Germans admitted to their horrible crimes against humanity instead of playing the victim.

  • Amused

    “Chinese people can never face true history. The Japanese army at the time was
    five times more powerful than the Chinese army. We won because of
    attrition and America’s nuclear bomb! Today’s absurd dramas are
    retarded, distorting history to mislead the audience, it never show the
    true brutality of war! In a hard won victory, only when we face up to
    history can we move in the right direction forward.”

    This guy is blunt to the point of being a hero. I’d vote for him if there was such a thing here and I was allowed.

  • Amused

    I completely agree that lots of people don’t know much about history. They should bring it back as a core study subject. But I’m not sure where you’re coming from with the Russia angle man.

    You do realize the Russians only declared war on the Japs at the very end of the war, after they were well and truly beaten. Basically just so they could scam some scraps at the peace table. And that, what with the Soviet navy of the time being a joke, they’d have had to borrow someone else’s to actually reach Japan, right?

    Do you know something I don’t?

  • Max Kolodka

    Chinese need to get over the Japanese invasion, the government needs to stop teaching ids to hate Japanese. Japanese are innocent.

    • daz

      Poor thing. Sucks being a troll and no-one responds to the bait. Here’s a bonus reply for trying.

      • Maximus

        Why are you so mean? I’m not a bad person..I do honestly believe modern Japanese are innocent and peace-loving people. In addition, I don’t find it productive to instill hate in Chinese youth through their schooling curriculum…What is so unreasonable about that?

        • KamikaziPilot

          Have you gotten Monster’s phone number yet? Maybe you can visit her in Yunnan after you move to HK.

          • Maximus

            Good question…I’m going to admit that Monster is truly my dream girl, as a friend or possibly ‘more..! She dries my tears when I am sad, makes me smile when I am mad & I am truly glad to know her! I really do enjoy reading her posts, they always make me laugh, like: ‘haha’…:) Do I sound creepy yet? lok…

            Hehehe..OK..Perhaps I’m exaggerating a bit, yet Monster is definitely super cool!! With that said, I highly doubt I am her type, even as just a friend I doubt she would be interested..I think she has her sights set on ‘Sophia Dalke’ for some reason-_-….Bummer! Though, I would be honored to meet her, we could have tea & beer in her new apartment..Perhaps you would be willing to join in? I will definitely love visiting mainland China under any circumstance, have you ever been to China? I think you and Monster might possibly make a good couple and/or friends, also I see that she has been admitting she finds you sexylately..With this new revelation,do you hereby take back your claim of Monster being rate-like in appearance? Also, I forgot to as before, how old are you buddy? My guess is between 31-38…How close am I?

            PS: you said you do not dress well..I feel you would loo best in Blac & tan polo shirts which light beige khai shorts/pants.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Are you nuts? Really, I’m questioning your sanity when you say Monster is your dream girl. Either you’re super weird like your avatar says or you have a fake internet persona and are trolling. How long have you been lurking on this website? How many of her past posts have you read? Do you even know what she looks like (I do from a previous post)? I am definitely not willing to join you two. Yes I’ve been to China several times. The most monster and I will ever be is internet friends (frenemies?). I do NOT take back what I said about monster’s appearance. You are correct about my age range.

          • Maximus

            Of course I’m joking around a bit, hence why I noted ‘do I sound creepy yet?’ & ‘exxagerating a bit’…In addition to my avatar, hehe, glad you took notice. Not trolling per-say, yet I do run wid a bit with a naive/creepy sort-of schtick..For sure…I am self-aware of how what I type comes across..It is just more fun this way(for me at least :p )…Now, the overall gist of my comments are in fact genuine. I’ll be straightforward & somewhat ‘normal’ when/if we converse in the future. I am in fact quite weird & have a strange sense of humor..

            No, I am not aware of what she looks like9 any chance you could direct me to a photo? I’m guessing ‘no’…) or essentially anything about her, aside from her entertaining posts here…I do believe she would be a blast to hang out with! Highly doubt that will ever happen though & it’s not exactly in the top ten of my bucket list..Would definitely be totally cool to see what she’d like outside a computer screen. My guess? A lot shyer, yet very entertaining when around familiar company. I’m an expert at analyzing people’s personalities online & offline. Shew definitely trolls a bit..

          • KamikaziPilot

            I think she posted her picture 2-3 years ago, I don’t really remember the exact time. It might still be up if you have the time to look through old articles but that would be tedious so I guess you’ll just have to take my word that she looks like a rat complete with beady little eyes. I think I’ve been on here about 2-3 years, not sure though. Did you have another user name?

          • Maximus

            A rat? Haha, you crack me up.. Especially the blinded with dental floss comment, lolz…I did have another S/N or two, I don’t remember them, though! I just learned I will have to wear a suit in HK every day(I rarely have to here, I only own one suit and one tie, seriously) not really looking forward to it, I have trouble finding suits which fit me & don’t wanna pay $1000+ for a tailored one…Ahh! Plus it can get hot in HK, seems uncomfy if I have to walk much. I’m used to polo shirt/khaki pants/shorts…What do you do for work…Hmm?

          • Don’t worry, there are dozens of shops in HK that will take your measurements and make custom shirts, jackets, suits, etc out of any material you want. They have deals and discounts for multiple item orders, so find a local friend/girl and make a day of it and shop around.

          • DD Bear!

            you are such a fking ….
            i said a bit nice words to end that HIPPO thing, so that i thought u can leave me alone. i dislike jap, i wanna end the hurt which HIPPO brings you.
            you do look like a hippo, ugly stupid face.
            i look like a rat? my eyes too small? fking idiot, unless you are blind.
            i do not wanna talk about my personal, but only one rule i keep is ,i never deal with ugly man, none! no matter poor or rich, never tolerate ugly guys.

          • KamikaziPilot

            I don’t care if you think I’m ugly or look like a hippo, actually I think it’s funny. Also you’re the only person that ever called me ugly while many others have called me good looking so I know I’m not ugly. Actually YOU are the one who was HURT when I said you look like a RAT, since you replied to my post when I wasn’t even talking to you. Are you upset I let others know what you look like? Maybe you don’t tolerate ugly guys but you see an ugly girl every time you look in the mirror, haha. You dislike jap? Why, because you are jealous of them being successful and you being a rat faced, trashy Chinese girl with low self-esteem who HATES being CHINESE. Too bad, you’re Chinese and ugly, deal with it.

          • Alex Dương

            @disqus_1kyWnVFUS9:disqusand @KamikaziPilot:disqus

            Please stop talking about each other’s looks in this way.

          • KamikaziPilot

            Okay, but I still think she’s a major troll with low self-esteem issues.

          • Maximus

            You and monster need to stop fighting! I made you guys a video to test out my new cam & create peace!
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G58mV5UUfI4

          • KamikaziPilot

            I tried to watch it but it says it’s private. I don’t think there will ever be peace between monster and I. She hate me just because I’m Japanese and I hate her because of that fact. Thank god not all Chinese are like her.

          • Maximus

            Fixed! Now it is public…Reply if you can view it now

          • KamikaziPilot

            I can view it. That was pretty cool since it was the first time I saw a video of a poster on this site. A rhinoceros eh? I’ll take that over a hippo, haha.

          • DD Bear!

            ha!
            i just watched it, thank you!
            i added u on yahoo but you seem busy.
            here is a photo of me too.

          • mr.wiener

            You look good in hats.

          • DD Bear!

            without hat!

          • bujiebuke

            Things are starting to make more sense now…

          • Maximus
          • Super Bunny!

            No, i do not look like that at all.
            but i do like her.

          • Maximus

            I don’t know what you mean by ‘added you on Yahoo’…Because, I haven’t received any emails from you…Yeah, I am usually busy, yet I would be overjoyed to chat with you some time..You’re too funny..:)))..Now, about your picture..I’m not trying to me weird/creepy or rude by complimenting you…Yet…Seriously? That is you? Wow…You’re unbelievably gorgeous…If I were super handsome I’d fly to China right now & ask you out on a date…Hahahaha, no worries though, I won’t..I’m just kidding around…You are definitely super beautiful though, I don’t know why the heck Kamakazi said you look like a rat! Haha…It’s funny how you guys insult each other though :))

            Anyways…Hey, here’s my email again…Shoot me an email if you’re ever bored and want to chat! About anything, maybe looking for some tips on decorating your possible new apt or whatever! I am fun to chat with… At least, in my own mind I am..lol!
            :p…Hehe: [email protected]

            At least shoot me a short email so I can add you to my contacts, if you want to anyway..Up to you! Bye bye..-Max

          • DD Bear!

            i mean i added you on yahoo messenger.
            ha!

          • Vance

            Well, I see you’ve got that girl situation figured out lol. Luck in Hong Kong! BTW, that agency I told you about has an office in Shenzen. You could have them bring girls in for “introductions”. Since you will be near there anyways, It wouldn’t cost much. Cheaper than correspondence.

          • Vance

            You look very pretty.

          • Super Bunny!

            thanks!
            why you always talk about your online date match things?

          • Vance

            Because Maximus was asking about it. That subject came up in past posts because I was talking about how and why I ended up on ChinaSmack. In my adventures in life, I ended up corresponding with a girl from China. Well, I knew almost nothing about Chinese people and what to expect from someone from China if I were to end up marrying her, so I started researching on the Internet about this and discovered this site. That’s how the subject came up and a couple of the guys were interested in my “misadventures”. :)

          • Super Bunny!

            if you have no holiday to meet her in china, no need to waste time of each other.
            online things never work, at least for me.

          • Vance

            Well, obviously a trip to China would be needed. Hoping some time this summer. I’m working on that. I have a previous marriage to someone from the Philippines so I’ve done this before. I decided online because I write pretty well and I can get to know a person’s thoughts and personality first before meeting her. Of course both people have to speak the truth or you are wasting time. I also keep my eye out locally. I never know.

          • Super Bunny!

            if you married philippino once, guess it’s hard for you to find chinese.
            at least, i wont consider any man has a philippino ex-wife.
            what kinda man needs to buy wife from philippines….
            most philippino women are just cheap w…..

          • KamikaziPilot

            You mean Filipinos are the same as Chinese women? I almost want to feel sorry for you since it must be hell living with a severe, crippling, inferiority complex and self-hatred. You must really hate yourself and other Chinese to say such things. But then again I guess you deserve to wallow in your own filth.

          • Super Bunny!

            they are famous as ayi in hongkong, or born mixed basterd kids for white fkers.
            do not ask who i am, my name is leifeng.

          • Vance

            It’s not a matter of “buying” anyone from anywhere. It’s a matter of me saying to the world “I’m single and available” and seeing who is interested. 15 years ago it happened to be a Philippine woman. Now it happens to be a woman in China. I didn’t even realize there were so many Chinese women looking for foreign men since there are plenty of men in China. It was a big surprise to me. It is simply a matter of numbers. I can try my luck from a choice of women in this small town I’m currently in, or a choice from many millions from around the world. I didn’t go looking for any particular nationally. Just said “here I am” and have had over 2000 from around the world write to me. Sseveral hundred of those are from China. Shenzen, Nanning, Zhanjiang, Chongqing, a few from places like Chengdu, and Shanghai and one or two from Beijing. The one I am corresponding with is from Nanning but currently working in Shanghai. The girls that have expressed interest in me are all hot, most of them are wealthy, many promise great sex (and they tell me about it), and all promise great loyalty. I’ve had NOOOO trouble at all gaining the interests of Chinese women. They are really classy and top quality women.

          • Super Bunny!

            these women are too dumb.
            a lot of new rich in china, still dream to marry divorced white men.

          • Vance

            What do smart women do?

          • Super Bunny!

            at least do not deal with poor white free sex seekers or divorced loser.
            a lot of chinese guys can not find wives, some even build pretty villa also, no need to waste time with white broke ass.

          • Vance

            Well…I’ve got a house, an apartment, and a car. Then, so do most people here. I still don’t have a second car like most people here so I guess I do have some work to do.

            Wait until those extra guys discover Ukraine.

          • Mihel

            Stupid free sex seekers!
            Those cheap bastards who want sex for free are ruining the economy by bankrupting prostitutes & pimps all over the world.

          • Super Bunny!

            hahahaha, you are so funny!
            but if i were a guy, i would rather pay for a whore not cheat for sex then hide up as dk!

        • daz

          Different perspectives, I guess. If my ancestors were raped, burnt alive, prematurely buried and slaughtered by another race or country I might just see that as attempted genocide and I would probably hold that against them. I might just be a little peeved. And I might just happen to want to teach that in my country’s school curriculum. But, of course, any form of education regarding these facts by the Chinese is obviously ‘brainwashing’.

  • A friend told me China’s army at that time was on par with Japan. They had the hardware to push back the Japanese.

    The only problem was their politics, which caused them to be disorganized.

    Can someone validate this?

    • mr.wiener

      It all depends where the fight is. On Chinese real estate the PLA has the numbers and quality to smash any Japanese invasion. At sea it would be a different story. The Japanese would not have it all their own way, but the technological abilities of their ships subs and planes would make a Japanese victory very likely. A Chinese invasion of Japan would be impossible for this reason, plus the USA would be obliged by treaty to step in to defend Japan in the instance of a long range city destroying missile duel.

      • Chaz

        Uh, we’re taking WW II here, no? “At that time”?

        • mr.wiener

          You are correct, I missed that bit, cheers.

    • Alex Dương

      Your friend is completely wrong. In 1937, the Imperial Japanese Army was vastly superior to the National Revolutionary Army in terms of training and technology. Imperial Japan also had a world-class navy and air force; the Republic of China did not.

      Remember that Imperial Japan honestly thought it could defeat the ROC in three months. That wasn’t because they thought the NRA were disorganized; it’s because they correctly believed that they had a much better military. They failed because unlike the Mongols and the Manchus before them, the Imperial Japanese failed to successfully use Chinese to fight other Chinese.

      • Vance

        Which is interesting because, at hat time, there were Chinese (the Komingtang lead faction) fighting other Chinese (the Communist lead faction). Although I agree. The Japanese military was top quality. I guess their atrocities united the Chinese enough to prevent a successful divide and conquer strategy.

        • Alex Dương

          I think “divide and conquer” was the one thing the Japanese didn’t learn from the West / British. Had they known how to do that, they could have easily conquered China.

    • the warden

      Very very wrong. The Japanese had recently undertaken the Meiji Restoration, and although at the cost of agriculture among other things, was almost a fully industrialized nation. Their military was almost on-par with some western nations. China’s was a long way off.

      • Alex Dương

        Imperial Japan defeated Imperial Russia in 1905, and they easily ran through French, British, and Dutch colonies in Southeast Asia in WWII. I’d say their military was more than “almost on-par.”

        • the warden

          Russia’s fleet circumnavigated the globe to fight the Japanese, and the European forces were badly depleted because of their war with Germany, duh.

          • Alex Dương

            Even before the Battle of Tsushima, Russia didn’t win any battle – land or naval – against Japan. The Japanese military was much stronger than you make it seem.

          • the warden

            The Russians routed Japan at the Battle of Khalkhin Gol, which was, so far as I know, the first one since 1905 that the Russians were serious about.

          • Alex Dương

            Yes. That doesn’t mean that the Imperial Japanese Army was merely “almost on-par” with Western armies. I can point you to the Battle of Singapore. You say that colonial forces in Southeast Asia were “badly depleted” because of the war in Europe, yet in Singapore, the Japanese forces were outnumbered by more than 2 to 1. Granted, the Japanese forces had a better air force and more armored vehicles, but even then, that goes against your claim that they were “almost fully industrialized.”

          • the warden

            Singapore!? They may have been outnumbered, but the British had arrived the day before and had no equipment! There wasn’t even a fight!
            The Japanese were a problem, but they presented absolutely nothing like the kind of threat the Germans did. Just ask the Russians. The US sent only a portion of its navy and smashed Japan. Even if Pearl Harbor had been a complete success, they intended only to consolidate in the Asia/Pacific, and not to invade and other nations because they simply weren’t powerful enough.
            They were strong, but certainly not a world power.

          • Alex Dương

            You seem to have an excuse for or spin against everything that happened to the Allies or Japan in WWII, respectively. Singapore was lost because “the British” (which ones, exactly? All of them?) had arrived the day before and they ended up surrendering without a fight (not true). Conquering all the European colonies in Southeast Asia doesn’t mean anything because the Japanese didn’t intend to branch out beyond Asia/Pacific. The Japanese sucked because of one battle against the Soviet Union in 1939 (island hopping, anyone?). Every European loss in Southeast Asia was because the home countries were too busy dealing with the Germans.

            Let’s talk about some facts. The Imperial Japanese Navy was the third strongest in the world when the U.S. entered WWII. How does that not qualify them as a world power of the time?

            In 1938, Japanese GDP exceeded that of Italy and was a bit less than that of France. You called them “almost fully industrialized.” Being ahead of Italy and just barely behind France seems to a bit more than just “almost.”

          • the warden

            Okay, I’ll concede this: Japan had a very strong military and was at least almost as developed as the richest western nations.

            But it did not have the same military or industrial capabilities as several of the world’s most powerful nations, even if their navy was 3rd strongest at some point, and even though they had a far greater population than any European nation.

            As I stated early, Japan had modernized rapidly and effectively under the Emperor Meiji. Japan was strong and industrialized

            But the simple fact is that strong or not, they were not on par with the world leaders of the time. They scorched through Asia Pacific – including poorly-defended Singapore – in large part because the Europeans were mobilizing against bigger threats, ie. each other. Why pretend this wasn’t the main reason Japan had so many victories against European powers in Asia?

          • Alex Dương

            It was definitely a reason. Overall, I just think that you aren’t giving the Japanese enough credit, like when they won, it was because their opponents sucked and had an excuse to suck. In the case of Singapore, at the time, people didn’t think it was poorly defended. They thought the exact opposite: it was supposed to be unconquerable. Arguably, a reason Singapore fell so quickly was because the British didn’t respect the Japanese as much as they should have.

          • the warden

            Alright, fair enough. And btw, I hope you recognize hyperbole when you see it.

            I don’t wanna drag this out too much further, so I’ll make this my last post, but feel free to reply.
            Singapore was badly inadequately equipped. The British may well have underestimated Japan, and I’m well-aware of how successful the Japanese were in WWII. I also know that Britain had troops from all over the empire in Asia, but their defense against Germany badly depleted their capabilities, and if it wasn’t an excuse to suck in Asia, I don’t know what could have been.
            Japan’s victory in Singapore over a heavily distracted enemy was hence hardly proof that it could match the top militaries of the time. I know of no Japanese victory which did prove this.
            In the end, they got their fair, toe-to-toe fight with a genuine world power, and we all know how they fared.

  • Karze

    Will China allow the documentary on Chinese invasion and occupation of Tibet in 1950?

    • KamikaziPilot

      Are you so concerned with the welfare of the Tibetan people? Are you that concerned with “freedom” in China that you want them to be able to see such documentary? If yes you must feel awesome that you’re such a great humanitarian. Or is it possible you’re just trying to find something to demonize the Chinese people who you care nothing about.

  • the warden

    Ha, you’re hilarious… yes, what you said is probably true, but it never happened. You say, “…many westerners especially Americans never face true history,” and then back the statement up with something that never even happened! LOL!!

    • Vance

      I agree. People want to belittle the American lead victory over Japan by saying that Japan would have been defeated by someone else had they not surrendered to the Americans, but we will never know that. The fact is that the Americans were part of a large alliance that included the Soviet Union and the Chinese and a large collection of other nations. Each did their part to wear Japan down, but the Japanese were a determined and very capable adversary. It was America that found a way to defeat them at that time so the Russians, Chinese, or the Western powers did not have to charge this determined enemy on his home ground, sacrificing many of their lives in doing so. Gees. People should be glad the Allies won. The world would be a terrible and evil place had the Axis Powers won.

  • the warden

    Any Chinese docos or reenactments of the Taiping, or the Boxers’ march to Beijing?

    • KamikaziPilot

      Why would you watch one? I guess you love Chinese people since you seem to be so concerned with “freedom of expression” there.

      • Vance

        I don’t think the Chinese people ever had freedom of expression. I understand some of the dynasties actually required the citizens to wear certain styles of clothing.

        • KamikaziPilot

          Western societies were arguably worse in the past then China so bringing up the past is really irrelevant. My point is a lot of outsiders who are “concerned” with China’s lack of “freedom of expression” only bring it up to demonize China, not for any real feelings of empathy for the Chinese people. Kind of like the Tibet issue. Besides, every society is different. Just because a society has “freedom of expression” doesn’t mean a society is more or less civilized than another.

          • the warden

            I care about freedom of expression everywhere. It’s a sensitive issue in China because so few Chinese know about their own exceptionally brutal, cruel, and violent past.
            I’m not trying to demoralize anyone, but the fact is that in terms of violence, the history of China is arguably worse than the west’s. But most westerners know about their history, whereas historical violence just seems to be swept under the carpet in China.

          • Alex Dương

            Exceptionally brutal, cruel, and violent past. Hmm. Give some examples.

          • the warden

            Three Kingdoms war, Mongol conquests, Qing dynasty conquest, Taiping Rebellion, An Lushan rebellion, and the Chinese Civil war are all in the top ten deadliest human conflicts according to wikipedia, although some of these were ancient.
            From memory, between 1850 and 1933, there were at least a dozen major rebellions/conflicts which cost hundreds of thousands of lives each. I’ll find the names if you’re interested.

          • Alex Dương

            Given that China has had a large population for much of its history, does it surprise you that several of their wars rank highly in a list of wars by death toll?

          • guest

            What is more surprising is that they are also very highly ranked by percentage world population killed.

            However, to be fair, a fair amount of them lasted quite a long while.

          • the warden

            Given that most of these conflicts happened before the widespread use of guns and artillery, yes.

          • Alex Dương

            Don’t you think that in a large country, if you don’t scale by population, there’s basically always going to be more of everything?

          • the warden

            Maybe, but not necessarily. Wars within China vs wars within the US or India since 1850 do not have death rates proportionate to their populations. It’s the same when you compare it to the rest of Asia combined.
            I think my point that China has a particularly violent history is true, regardless of population size, and my other point that Chinese citizens know very little about this side of their history is definitely true.

          • Alex Dương

            You have to scale, otherwise you can’t compare across entities. Do you think that a town of 100 that has 50 crimes per year is more dangerous than a city of 1,000,000 that has 49 crimes per year?

            Contrary to your position, one reason China lagged behind Europe in the 19th Century was because it fought far fewer wars than European countries did over the span of several hundred years. Europe rose to preeminence largely because it was so violent for so long.

          • the warden

            I’m not gonna bother doing the numbers, but I think that with proportion to its population, it’s fair to say that China has an exceptionally bloody past, both recent and ancient.

            As for your second point, are you really foregoing an analysis of history just to say Europe must have been more violent because it’s been more successful? Surely not.

            Europe also had a very large population for a long time. Have you figured out if it’s wars ~1000-1900 were proportionately big enough to drive its rise to preeminence?

            Yes, I agree that European innovation was necessitated in large part by the competitive nature of war and conquest, but there was much more to it than that. The Magna Carta, for instance, was written and signed in 1050, or somewhere around then.

            One arguably more significant reason China lagged behind Europe for much of the 19th century was its stubborn and inefficient social and political structures, which suffocated any innovation during one of the most war-riddled periods of any nation’s history. During the same time, a relatively peaceful Japan bounded ahead.

            We’re getting off topic here, but I would call into question your hypothetical numbers, and I just don’t think you’re giving Europe enough credit!

            .

          • Alex Dương

            You keep saying “exceptionally.” That means you have to give a comparison. Which means you have to scale to meaningfully compare across countries. You haven’t done that. You’ve pointed out that China has had a lot of wars with very high death tolls, but I don’t find that surprising in the least because China has had a large population for a long, long time.

            In 1800, the entire continent of Europe had about 150 million people. By contrast, the population of China itself as one country was more than 300 million in 1800.

            Have you figured out if it’s wars ~1000-1900 were proportionately big enough to drive its rise to preeminence?

            Did you read the article I linked to?

            One arguably more significant reason China lagged behind Europe for much of the 19th century was its stubborn and inefficient social and political structures, which suffocated any innovation during one of the most war-riddled periods of any nation’s history. During the same time, a relatively peaceful Japan bounded ahead.

            The point is that the lag started much earlier than that. As the article I linked to shows, wages in Europe were already significantly higher than wages in Asia starting in the 16th Century.

          • moop

            I’d say more because of competition rather than violence. The norms of the time tended to lend competition to violence. A geographically large nation of majority Han, surrounded by smaller tributary states is a naturally less violent scenario than a multipolar Europe

          • Alex Dương

            That’s consistent with the authors’ claims of the paper I linked to: “We argue that Europe’s rise to riches was driven by the nature of its politics after 1350 — it was a highly fragmented continent characterized by constant warfare and major religious strife.”

          • This is very important Alex. Many “Americans” believe they should fear China
            (and Russia and Iran – add to this list anyone they are told to fear)
            If you look at the history of the USA and CHina, I (as an outsider) see a difference between the US and Chinese mind. Has China used its past power to expand its dominance and “military superiority” to subjugate other people?
            I don’t see China desiring that aspect of American Superiority – going around the world hammering people with cruise missiles or sending in the Marine to put down banana farmers who want a few more pennies. I see China more willing to explore win-win. The USA just wants what it wants; regardless of your needs/wants.

            The USA positioned itself to gain world dominance after WWI and WII and is still that bully on the block.

          • Alex Dương

            I agree that the Chinese are much less warmongering than they’re made out to be, but I also want to be fair to the historical record. The Vietnamese would definitely say “yes” that China used its past power to subjugate them.

          • Oh, no doubt, but I think this is something many people wonder about. Is it their nature or was it because they didn’t have the tools?

            Yes, China has shown it will use military force to defend its sphere of influence..they gave the USA/UN multiple warnings when the UN/USA pushed the North Koreans north of Pyongyang.

            Some old Chinese maps show its sphere of influence to expand beyond its borders of today, so if they achieve military might on par with the USA, will they use it to expand using force as the US has?

            Maybe they did not do so in the past because they could not?

            Maybe if they had an advanced Navy and Carrier force in the 1950’s, they would have taken Taiwan by force then?

          • Alex Dương

            Is it their nature or was it because they didn’t have the tools?

            I think it’s more nature than lack of tools. Imperial China throughout the ages tended to be content with tribute over conquest.

            Some old Chinese maps show its sphere of influence to expand beyond its borders of today, so if they achieve military might on par with the USA, will they use it to expand using force as the US has?

            Can never say no for sure, but if this is Mongolia, Korea, or Vietnam, I doubt it.

            Maybe if they had an advanced Navy and Carrier force in the 1950’s, they would have taken Taiwan by force then?

            You mentioned North Korea. IMO, with respect to Taiwan, they definitely would’ve tried and would’ve been willing to go to war with the U.S.

          • you are Taiwanese?

          • Alex Dương

            I’m not; my parents are from mainland China. But given the Chinese Civil War and the Korean War, I think it’s quite reasonable to say that if the PRC had an advanced navy, they would have tried an invasion of Taiwan in the 1950s.

          • KamikaziPilot

            I agree a lot of Chinese are ignorant but then again so are those in the west. I guess we can argue all day about who has a more violent past, who’s been more transparent about their past, but that’ll go nowhere. I also don’t think western style “freedom and democracy” is for everyone, and they certainly shouldn’t be pushed upon anyone. While you may not be demonizing China, at least not consciously, I do believe most outsiders who criticize China are both ignorant and ethnocentric and do seek to vilify China by repeating the same tired slogans (ex. Free Tibet), for the most part. Their concern isn’t for the Chinese people but for their own self-righteousness and ego, not to mention deflecting from the injustices in their own countries.

          • the warden

            okay, fair enough. I still disagree with most of what you say though.

  • Jahar

    Who are these people “not facing” this “true history”? No one denies that the Russians probably would have done this. And I think the things that happened qualify as “true history” more so than what what may have.

  • Karze

    Heights of hypocrisy. Chinese will always show propaganda that Chinese are always victims and that Chinese are incapable of evil doings. No wonder all the crimes of Mao has to buried in day light by force.

  • Rnr2

    The CCP should really be more Grateful to Japan. Without them they would never have won the civil war. Even Mao knew this!

  • KamikaziPilot

    So you have me all figured out just by looking at my username eh? Yamada spirit? No idea what that is. I’m not even going to argue with someone who thinks he/she knows anything about me just by my username except to say I think you’re extremely stupid and naive. Your stupidity offends me. Also there are actually plenty of dumb, ignorant, self-hating, low self-esteem Chinese people who hate anyone of Japanese ancestry regardless of nationality, and a lot of these people have never even met a Japanese person in real life. How dumb is that. BTW I just picked that username as a joke, I thought it was funny at the time.

  • ChingChongChinaman

    Do the japanese soldiers eat chinese civilians during the play
    They should include some rape scenes to make the foreign audience happy

  • I’ve been to this place. Totally ridiculous.