China Universities: Pouring Shit Into Students’ Minds

Earlier this week, some Chinese noticed a strange piece of news on Tsinghua University’s website:

Tsinghua University News Center website screenshot of news article of school president claiming that China's universities are 'pouring shit into students' minds.'

"Tsinghua President Gu Binglin -- China university education is pouring shit into students' minds."

 

Clicking that circled link led to the following news article and interview:

[English Translation]

Yesterday afternoon, Tsinghua University principal Mr. Gu Binglin expressed his worries about current university education conditions during an interview with a student reporter. He indicated straightforwardly that the university education system is in effect “pouring shit into the students minds.”

Principal Gu Binglin indicated that the 1900s-1940s could be considered the golden age for Chinese education circles. During this short period of time, China’s universities trained large quantities of outstanding talents for society, amongst them great thinkers and educators, righteous political revolutionaries and anti-Japanese resistance heroes, and the backbone of scientific knowledge and national elites. But this flourishing situation began to deteriorate following the Liberation and especially during the 1990s. Today’s various institutions of higher learning, including Tsinghua and Beijing University, no longer have the educational goal of fostering talent. Serious academic corruption, dry and irrelevant to society curriculum, and rote memorization teaching methods will lead to students developing rigid ways of thinking, losing interest in the curriculum, losing confidence in the college and even China’s entire education system. dropping out of school to express their disappointment with the university education system in the most extreme way.

He further indicated that some 80% of the student first entering college are full of will and determination to study diligently, but under the the grinding and corrosion of their four year university career, he is afraid not even 20% can maintain this determination up until graduation. Skipping class, cheating on tests are already regarded by many students as par for the course. The original goal and motivation for going to college to gain knowledge becomes purely just get a diploma. Moreover, those students who try their best and take their studies seriously, their learning abilities and creativity are actually being obliterated. their learning capability and innovation ability are actually gradually being destroyed. If this kind of situation continues, the university’s ultimate finished product will be soul-less zombies.

If this continues, 20 years later, who knows what mental state and psychological condition China’s university students will have? I am afraid to imagine!”

The old-fashioned methods of teaching and teaching material caused our society to lose many Da Vinci’s and Bill Gates. Regarding these losses, do we want to engage in introspection? Under such educational methods, students’ psychologies receive the most extreme harm, their creativity and independent thinking abilities are strangled beyond repair. Up to now, China has no Nobel prize winners, which has a lot to do with this kind of education patterns.

Below are Mr. Gu Binglin’s own words:

As president of a university, I believe a real university should foster students’ independent skill, unique thinking methods, and the spirit to challenge authority.

1. What is “independent skill?”

It is not rigidly adhering to the textbook. If you thoroughly researched some thing, you can consider the results of that research to be an achievement in itself. We must encourage and develop this kind of thinking, because the market and the students need such encouragement!

2. What is “unique thinking methods?”

The unique thinking methods does not mean sudden genius, but rather the mindset of trying different things to find solve problems, of grabbing hold of a line and then feeling your way forward. With this kind of scientific spirit, this line can certainly lead to the Nobel. Unique thinking methods are born out of unceasing study, where the student must pay attention to the methods of research, the research goals, as well as the rationality. Of course, the Nobel prize should not become the ultimate objective of the education system, whose ultimate objective is to train and foster talented people, but this is after all the international symbol to recognize the highest talents.

3. What is “challenge authority?”

I trust this students all understand: Of the feather and the stone, which touches the ground first?

This is something everyone all knows, why is it at time only 1 person proposed a different answer and at that time proved with the fact The reason is because of authority’s deterrence. Professor: This noun is an elder’s now, I do not mind others calling me schoolmate, calling me brother, or a student. Because a disciple need not be inferior to the teacher, the teacher is not necessarily more worthy than the disciple, understanding has beginnings and ends, and everyone has their own different expertise. If your research results are better than the teacher’s, then you are the teacher. I can stop the class for a classmate’s “nonsense” question and mobilize everyone to discuss this question, but for what reason? Next to this question just might very well be the Nobel prize…

Of course, it is impossible to give the the above abilities to the students under China’s present education system. Therefore Mr. Gu Binglin indicated that organizational reform is imperative for China’s higher education, “must cease strangling talent ! Must cease pouring shit into students’ minds!” Certainly, reform will involve a lot of unknown factors, as well as implicate many people’s benefits, and is bound to meet enormous resistance, but in consideration of the students and of China’s future, these obstacles must be overcome.

The next day, there was this notice:

[English Translation]

Tsinghua University News Center Statement

On August 24th at 11:47pm, Tsinghua news website suffered a malicious attack, was maliciously hacked, with impersonated news and rumors propogated. Tsinghua University News Center strongly resents and condemns these views.

Tsinghua University News Center
2008, August 25

China’s prestigious Tsinghua (Qinghua) University was hacked.

News of this spread quickly across the Chinese internet with articles on many news portals, and thousands of BBS forum topics and comments on major Chinese websites like NetEase, Tianya, and Sina.

Comments on NetEase:

A lot of the content is true…

It was always the truth,
But this society insists on compelling others to say lies,
Even framing others as hackers!
In the future, anyone who posts a political opinion online can be framed as a hacker.

Well done!

Who wrote this? I support whoever it is to be a Tsinghua professor!

What this hacker said is absolutely correct!!! The day Tsinghua’s president really dares to say this kind of stuff is the day our universities have hope!!!

Did Tsinghua’s pageviews drop recently?

Speak the truth once and they need to use innumerable lies to cover it up.

My four years in university:
First Year: Diligently studied math, English, and the like (Work proved that these were the most useless).
Second year: Did not go to class during the semester. One week before tests, diligently bribe the teachers to reveal the test topics in advance, so there is no problem passing the test.
Third year: Gamble, girlfriends, waste time!!
Fourth year: …do not remember what I did.
Summary of reflections after graduation:
I wasted my tuition and four years of my youth!!! I believe I can represent 95% of college graduates!!
Even if you diligently studied, what use would it be! Whatever major you studied would be no better than what you could learn at a technical/vocational school!!
Chinese universities is a place for wasting time!

I am a professor: I appreciate the hacker for speaking what is in my heart.

“What did I do the entire time I was in university!!!”
“University did me for 4 years!!”
Bullshit!!
If you yourself do not work hard, only knowing how to put your hopes on other people, then you are also useless!!
Although this society or university has a lot of bad things!!
Use your brains, move your bodies!
And you will naturally learn a lot of things!!
Even in the dark, you can learn how dark it is!!
If you complain you learned nothing in university!!
Then when I only feel an intense superiority over you when look at you.
Only pigs can learn absolutely nothing.

After finishing my first year of university, I suddenly realized that something was not right. thereupon I went to a training school on one hand and wasted my time in university on the other. After I had finished my second year, my dad said college tuition was too expensive, that it would be difficult for the family to support me, so I completely stopped attending college. My last two years, I worked part-time and studied at the training school part-time. When it was time for my old university schoolmates to graduate, I was ready to change jobs. When we applied for the same jobs, I always won. So, I have a good conclusion: Today’s education, today’s universities, you have really harmed a generation of people!

I was a good student, but when I got into college, my schoolmate did not. Four years later, when I had graduated and was searching everywhere for a job, my old schoolmate had already earned enough money to buy a 200,000+ RMB car while I have not even found a job. This is education, I do not believe that just because I attended school for several more years, I can earn 20,000 RMB more every month.

Overall, college’s biggest contribution:

  1. Provided the country a huge amount of financial revenue;
  2. Provided young people a common place to improve: video games, watching movies, drinking alcohol, etc.
  3. Provided society with a batch of ambitious but low-skilled so-called “talent.”

I really hate those so-called “hackers,” .386 mov eax, esp who does not know how?

Whether it is your university or some other place, you must always depend on your own hard work, and not simply blame your environment.

I know all the people above definitely could never get into Tsinghua and are just trying to make themselves feel better.

I did college for four years, but it feels like college did me for four years.

Three Chinese university schoolgirls.

So-called China’s best sciences and engineering university, famous for being China’s strongest computer science specialty, only to have their own website hacked, really is too hilarious.

I am from Tsinghua University. I strongly condemn the hacker’s actions. Haha. Once again I condemn you!

A: Are you from Tsinghua?
B: You’re from Tsinghua, your whole family is from Tsinghua…
A: Your family’s eight generations of ancestors are all from Tsinghua…
[This joke originally involved China's embarrassing national football team]

If this is real, then the pace of China’s educational reforms must speed up;
If this is fake, then it proves that Tsinghua’s computer department has no talented people, that even their own front door has been messed with.

Maybe this hacker is a Tsinghua student!!!

Hacker brother, please attack the Chinese Securities Supervisory Association’s website, I beg of you! Those bastards are useless! [China's stock market has performed very poorly for some time now]

This hacker is so strong. China’s genuine talented people have only two options: one is to be buried by the bullshit leadership, a lifetime of misery; two is blend in with the normal people, never to be discovered. Those on the stage are all clowns.

What I regret the most was studying computer science in college. Whatever I learned I learned in the internet bars!!

I am very disappointed. So many talented people, China’s best sciences and engineering school, China’s best computer science school, and they were this careless!!!

Attention everyone: The hacker is really the school president’s other identity!

Comments on Sina:

China’s present education system is all about test scores. The next few decades will all have this kind of situation. This is what China’s education is like, an unchangeable fact.

One look and it is obvious that this is fake news, because real news never has the truth!

And they still condemn other people as if they have not embarrassed themselves enough???

China’s education system really has some problems, perhaps an imbalance of high scores, but as a school that is often ranked first, how come they could not find someone smart enough to stop the hacker? Does Tsinghua University not have a computer department?

The education system indeed has big problems.
Go to the south coast university at night and there are a bunch of BMWs outside the front school gate!
Why? To pick up the girls

I am very shocked, very confused, very indignant that this fake message was actually the truth!!!!

The truth grasped in the hands of the few is always penetrating.

Why only universities? Are middle and primary school not the same?

Epiphany: China’s universities are just like China’s football.

Idiots, even America’s Department of Defense has been hacked before, what, are all Americans going to die?

Good thing I did not go to Tsinghua, he he…

[Responding to commenters from outside of China because you can see IP addresses/locations on sina.com] Why are there so many foreigners coming here to comment? What business is this of your’s? Seriously, what do you guys understand of China’s education system?

I thought Tsinghua could be saved. Turns out I was just dreaming.

This is the truth, how can it be a fabrication? Be careful of being accused of leaking state secrets!!

Chinese university student couple.

All pictures of university students were taken from Baidu.

Are all colleges and universities like this? Or is it only like this in China? What about foreign colleges and universities? Are they better? Worse? Maybe it depends on the student?

See more posts about Chinese universities and student life:

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32 Comments

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  1. Some of my Chinese friends have this problem well assessed.
    School in general gives the paper…the paper represents submission, not ability or intelligence…and most definitely not knowledge or critical thought process.
    Chinese school is all that to the 5th exponent plus singular curriculum, minus individual expression and questions (questions are frowned upon, afterall if your teacher was any good, you’d understand right? therefore you question is an insult to the teacher).

  2. All I want to know is this:

    During the cultural revolution, all the educated, literate, artistic people were killed, fled, or sent into the countryside. Then the peasants became the leadership of the education systems, though many of them had little or no education.

    This is the generation that is now leading the 80′s generation. So how is it that one person in China can have a “real” education? You know at UCLA Chinese are the most hated students on campus because they are notorious for cheating and stealing text books necessary for all students.

    How can we expect any Chinese to really be an intellectual? 1.3 billion people and not one Nobel Prize should not be a surprise to anyone.

  3. Those comments sound like a criticism of the educational system here in the United States. Very well said… too bad it wasn’t the actual words of the school president… that would have been amazing.

  4. Maybe it was the president’s actual words and they’re just trying to cover it up.

  5. Gaoshan, everything is relative. We can all say the same things but the degree is FAR different. Gotta witness it to understand.
    My ex GF was a Canadian (canadian born Chinese)…and went to UofT.
    She used to tell me of the cheating circles and the systems used etc…
    It’s an institution! A tradition!
    Once I came to China, I taught at a Uni in central China. One of the best english students became my friend, and after I had moved he told me with great pride that he now rode a scooter and had some money because he was going into the exam hall and writing english Band4 for rich kids.
    This was all considered normal.

  6. you did put it on, that’s great. anyway, i believe it’s an interesting topic……love you ^_^

  7. one quotation from KDS
    “first I thought finally China has hope, but now I see it’s just a pathetic dream”

  8. I agree that Chinese students, in general, do well academically and certainly can outperform the average American or (insert many nations here) when it comes to exams.

    Their hindrance, I find, comes when turning theory to practical or being given a task that requires some creativity…some innovation or problem solving skill. Also, in team efforts, I find that there is a general lack of ability to work well together. My coworkers agree that they are taught to memorize, not understand. The problem with this type of education is that, well, it can certainly do well on exams – it doesn’t help solve [the unknown]…which is what the principal mentions (indirectly) as the representation of applied intellect.

  9. @USTCer
    RE: “while HARDWORKING is the main contributing factor to creativity”
    I disagree completely with this statement. In fact, while “hard working” is an admirable quality and one to which I think the majority of the world must subscribe (they make good employees), the best leaders work smarter – not harder. The most successful people in the world combine these two factors, and work both smarter, and harder…creating a success-juggernaut when compared to the average joe. Creativity, on the other hand, does not equate to success. A creative person may not need to work much at all – and work sporadically based on inspiration. I don’t believe you “work hard” to create a beautiful symphony or come up with a new concept in housing design to allow trees to form into structures preventing natural disaster damage as well as promoting clean environment (plantware.org, ‘grow’ a house out of trees), in fact, I believe it’s more play than work, and more based on self-discovered inspiration than grinding away to “push” something out.

    RE: “These who got Ph.D. degrees and tenure are not creative? I don’t think so.”
    I do not think that earning a PhD nor gaining tenure represent creativity OR problem solving. Especially in vocations such as engineering, as you mentioned. Not to say these people are NOT creative, just that it is not a prerequisite to earning a degree. Earning academic credentials is less about being creative or one’s ability to problem solve, and more about being willing to invest the time necessary to get there. “Those that can’t do, teach”.

    All that being said, I agree with your facts that the top universities in China produce the most PhD students in US or probably many other nation’s schools. That’s fantastic, and shows the determination of the Chinese students to reach a peak academic career. I believe that all people, ethnically, are quite equal – genetically – and that ethnic Chinese will likely produce the (on average) best of any particular field given time. After all, the majority of the world’s population is ethnic Chinese…it’s simply a mathematical probability and social structure that will create such an outcome based on my belief in equality, yeah?

  10. @USTCer
    I think that your understanding of “hard working” and mine are different. In my understanding of the term, hard working is not related to creativity. For example, some very respectable and hard working men may have complete lack of creativity – and work in a robotic production line for 14 hours a day – repeating the same task..over..and over..and over..nobody can deny the hard work, but there certainly is no creativity. I believe that, not through genetics (as is made clear in that many who have spent a long time overseas, or grew up overseas, but are ethnically Chinese have proven) that through the style of education and social environment, creativity is far greater overseas than in the mainland PRC. If you disagree, that’s your right – however, while China flaunts invention of paper, gunpowder, and clocks over the last five thousand years, pretty much everything you use daily was invented in western europe/north america…in the last hundred. Again – it’s not a racial issue, it’s a social one. I simply do not believe growing up in this society promotes creativity. I lead and train a team of business analysts, a job which – believe it or not – requires a very strong combination of analysis and creativity. I find that my local team…even though they are the most intelligent students from the hundreds of applicants tested, out of thousands of resumes submitted, have trouble when it comes to thinking outside of the box. In addition, just out of curiosity, I picked a school you mentioned – Stanford – and checked their faculty claims….not so many Mandarin names on these lists, eh? They even have an ethnic breakdown by percentage.

    http://www.stanford.edu/about/facts/faculty.html

    Regardless. My whole point here is that it’s not a genetic issue, it’s a social/education issue, and while I agree that Chinese students are generally *VERY* hard working, and it shows in their exam scores, there are significant problems when it comes to coming up with unique solutions to problems, or competing in the real world. If there truly were the top creative and intelligent thinkers coming out of Tsinghua I’d totally expect to see some of those alumni on some Nobel tickets. It will happen…..it just isn’t happening with the current education system.

  11. Wasn’t there a movie recently about some Chinese guy in the States who flipped out and killed a bunch of people? I don’t remember the specifics but I think the guy was a genius but had some personality flaws that eventually led to the tragedy. I think somewhere in there was a story of how his teacher wasn’t happy that the guy was smarter than him or something.

    • The movie is call “Dark matter”. and you are right about the plot. The kid was __too creative__!!! his theory that the universe is not empty – those things we can not see doesn’t mean they are not there – they are dark matters.

  12. Yes, that’s it! Thanks, USTCer. I need to *cough*download*cough* that movie sometime and watch it. I have a feeling it just might piss me off though.

    Anyway, I think both you and Rick are right for your respective reasons and definitions. The Thomas Edison quote was one I thought of too as I read through Rick’s comments. To me, creativity is sometimes a flash of unconventional brilliance and sometimes it is having the patience and drive to keep trying different things until something works. The latter certainly has a component of “hard work” (as you define it) in there.

    I do think (and hope) that as China opens up and inevitably is cross-pollinated with international influences, Chinese people will overcome traditionally “rigid” thinking patterns, yield their fair share of brilliant people, and get recognized for them. As Rick said, there’s no reason to believe there is any genetic predisposition or limitation against the Chinese in this regard.

  13. Its simply a continuation of the cultural revolution. They used to send smart people to the countryside to make them shut up – or simply kill them. Now they simply don’t allow anyone to become ‘too smart’. Any wonder why our products can never compete with Japanese, Korean, or even Taiwan products? Because we have no idea how to make anything original, and they do. Why? Because of the stupid education system. Why? Because the government is scared of the normal people thinking by themselves. China has no hope.

  14. “He further indicated that some 80% of the student first entering college are full of will and determination to study diligently, but under the the grinding and corrosion of their four year university career, he is afraid not even 20% can maintain this determination up until graduation. Skipping class, cheating on tests are already regarded by many students as par for the course. The original goal and motivation for going to college to gain knowledge becomes purely just get a diploma. Moreover, those students who try their best and take their studies seriously, their learning abilities and creativity are actually being obliterated. their learning capability and innovation ability are actually gradually being destroyed. If this kind of situation continues, the university’s ultimate finished product will be soul-less zombies.”

    Well, what do you think happened everywhere else in the world once people became whores for material succes? This could be said of any higher school or university in any of the European or North American countries. It could be said of the people in any western country. But this has nothing to do with four measly years of study. In the west a BA alone is useless, MA is a minimum, four years is nothing if it has a point. No, the corrosion of morals, discipline and mind has to do with the students expectations. In these four years they find out why exactly it is they want to study. It is not to better themselves, it is to get a piece of the pie, and this is where it all goes wrong. Why? Because they nolonger adhere to traditional values. Because nothing matters anymore. Because capitalism is empty, its rewards are empty, the chase must be mindless or it cannot exist. You wanna be like the west? Well, here is a taste of it, enjoy ;)

  15. I studied at Tsinghua University for a year last year, not as one of the many foreign language students, but as a normal student (I studied Journalism… I know…).

    I went to class pretty much every day during the first semester, but as time moved on, I became less and less interested in what was being taught to me. There were almost no interesting subjects being taught, and even if we did get an interesting assignment, professors would encourage us to go about it in the same way as the examples they would give us; essentially telling us to copy what was being said in those examples.

    During my midterms, I had one open book exam: I didn’t read the book, didn’t open the book, didn’t even bring the book to the actual exam, and guess what: I got 100%! This made me realize that I would learn more about journalism on my own, so I went and visited my sister in Thailand for a couple of months.

    So I missed all my exams of that term, and guess what: when I got back from Thailand a couple months later, I actually got 80, 70 and 60% for some of my courses, even though I left halfway through the first term!

    I studied journalism, but never once was I encouraged to go out and write something, I was never asked to come up with my own ideas for articles, and I was certainly never encouraged to be critical about anything. Moreover, I passed most of my classes without bothering to show up for the exam…

    So yeah, I agree that Chinese universities are lacking in practically every department. A lot of it comes with the retarded entrance exam system, I think: pass your entrance exam and you are almost sure of getting a degree four, five years later. The only evaluation of the student’s capabilities is all the way in the beginning. If he can get through the entrance exam, why should he not get through the rest of if, right?

    Back home in Belgium, we had exams every six months, exams that really tested us and forced us to study huge amounts of data in a relatively short amount of time. We were also made clear that knowing the whole course by heart would only get you 60% of the points; we had to UNDERSTAND the contents and be able to make connections between different chapters (or courses) to be able to get anything above 60% grades.

    So, yeah, I agree with what this (hacked or not) article says.

  16. All depends on the student himself. If he needs the knowledge he gets them.

  17. The lacking of creativity and innovation are mentioned here more than once, I think it should be viewed much deeper. This is what is “seen”. The creativity and innovation in China are no where to be found in the universities, very much true. It is however not so that these people don’t exist. The problem lies that the educational system in China is a general system, a kind of one size fits all principle is upheld. Therefore specialistic needs are to tended to.

    The main issue of this is that decision making is never taught within the educational system. It’s a singular path that is laid our for you. If you are good in math, than you should be doing this and that, if you are good in this or that, do this or do that. If you do not excel, no one really cares, and that actually forces you to think and make decisions to become “succesful” in life. A lot of foreign companies do employ many of these people nowadays, because in practice and in interviews they will excel, by showing capabilities, instead of knowledge. Actually this has always been something that seperates Tsinghua students already from other famous universities’ students. Tsinghua students are more decisive and have better eye for opportunities. You can notice this when looking at students that become entrepreneurs within China or abroad. Still much can be improved!!! More “real” incubators please!!~

  18. @fcuk da lu ren
    “During the cultural revolution, all the educated, literate, artistic people were killed, fled, or sent into the countryside. ”

    Being killed is not the common case, the common case is to be sent to countryside, be humiliated, be treated as criminal etc. Some committed suicide, but it is also not what majority of them choose.

    If you think those who were sent to countryside are still there, and mystically disappear from the scene of China since then, you owe yourself some time to read more about the modern history of China, and be sure to choose a good book.

    Almost all of them were removed bad tags on them, get back to cities since Deng Xiaoping got power.

    Do not make me wrong, I am not making an apology for CCP here. My point is your “wow, since then they all disappeared, and babarians took over.” kind of claim is simply false. Cultural revolution significantly degraded Chinese “educated, literate, artistic people”, but not totally destroyed.

  19. Here’s what Tesla said about Edison:

    He had no hobby, cared for no sort of amusement of any kind and lived in utter disregard of the most elementary rules of hygiene … His method was inefficient in the extreme, for an immense ground had to be covered to get anything at all unless blind chance intervened and, at first, I was almost a sorry witness of his doings, knowing that just a little theory and calculation would have saved him 90 percent of the labor.

  20. This boy is going to be busting rocks at some labor camp in far western and extremely remote Qinghai Province if he doesn’t STFU.

    However, as a teacher in the past at Chinese Universities, there needs to be a change. Chinese colleges are boring, repetitive, and yes, represive. The people who run the colleges, schools and departments are dictators who do not care if the kids live like dogs and eat garbage while they collect fees, nor will most of the kids have the nerve to come together as a collective unit (like a student government) to make their conditions better.

    However, talking to a Chinese superior about making changes is like talking to a wall. Meiyou, Bushi, Mei Ban Fa. Nothing we can do (no, it’s we wont do anything, but will not lose face and get sucked into an argument.)

    Truly, all the repressive, Communist, sychophant assholes run the Universities in this great nation.

  21. I was educated in China, Sweden, Belgium and UK. All the universities I have attended are among the best in their countries. I found the teaching quality in China’s top universities better than in the above other countries, although research output is much less!

  22. Rejecting quality education? Sure, why not? It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.

  23. Actually, Those kids are brilliant. They know better than to try to achieve success by studying hard. Their outlook is bleak, expected to inherit the future and move forward while restrained. So, why bother studying to get to the top, when the winners are decided before any competitions even begin?

    Finding comfort in a girlfriend/wife/husband/boyfriend and enjoying their short time of happiness before venturing out into sadness. … I can understand …

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