Activists Protest Guizhengtang’s Live Extraction of Bear Bile

Young Chinese volunteers protest against Guizhengtang, a company known for extracting bear bile from live bears for traditional Chinese medicines.

From NetEase:

Shenzhen activists protest “extraction of bile from live bears” in front of Guizhentang store

February 26th afternoon, Shenzhen Luohu district, animal rights activists [“animal protection volunteers”] wearing black bear masks holding posters in a row in front of the Guizhentang Pharmaceutical Company store, protesting the extraction of bear bile from life bears, calling for the opposition of Guizhentang going public [on the stock market], attracting many passersby’s attention and signatures.

Two Chinese girls holding up posters protesting the extraction of bear bile from live caged Asiatic black bears by the Guizhentang company.

A Shenzhen SZCAT-organized protest against the extraction of bear bile from live bears at the Guizhentang store, protesting Guizhentang’s continued abuse/injuring of bears continued practice of extracting bear bile from live bears.

A young Chinese animal rights activist acts out live bear bile extraction on the sidewalk in front of a Guizhentang store in Shenzhen.

Animal rights activists acting out the extraction of bear bile from live bears in front of the Guizhengtang store, the green string representing the bile extracted from the bear.

A young Chinese animal rights activist acts out live bear bile extraction on the sidewalk in front of a Guizhentang store in Shenzhen.

Young Chinese protesters in front of a Guizhentang store in Shenzhen, protesting against the extraction of bear bile from live bears for traditional Chinese medicine uses.

Young Chinese protesters in front of a Guizhentang store in Shenzhen, protesting against the extraction of bear bile from live bears for traditional Chinese medicine uses.

Chinese posters protesting the extraction of bear bile from live bears by Guizhentang.

Young Chinese protesters in front of a Guizhentang store in Shenzhen, protesting against the extraction of bear bile from live bears for traditional Chinese medicine uses.

Comments from NetEase:

月君 [网易江苏省网友]:

Resolutely support this. Any way you look at it, doing something is better than doing nothing!

网易北京市丰台区网友:

Refuse to use bear gall products!

王瑞 [网易广东省深圳市网友]:

Why not go to a slaughterhouse and demand euthanasia before slaughter? Why not go to various overpasses and homeless shelters express sympathy for those in need?

昵称也不是随便叫的 [网易内蒙古网友]:

Good! I commend this! This is the kind of behavior of society’s elite!

曾经的蟀哥 [网易江西省九江市网友]:

The girl in yellow’s just getting soy sauce! Dear. [“Dear” doesn’t mean anything particular, it is just an exaggerated form of speech made popular by Chinese sellers on Chinese ecommerce website Taobao]

昨日之島 [网易湖南省常德市网友]:

Support. However, the performance seems to be a little too exaggerated/melodramatic. Things shouldn’t be “pretended”, because once you do, it becomes ridiculous.

秃山裸叟 [网易山东省网友]:

We can’t even stop people suffering abuse, and we’re caring about bears? Talk about having nothing better to do than to make a fuss!

网易江苏省苏州市网友:

Actually, these people are all fucking pretentious cunts, all trash hired by others [to do this]. How come these people don’t go protest pig farms where pigs are slaughtered for their meat? Pretentious cunts.

tslnzhh [网易河北省唐山市网友]:

Remember, every animal is a life. To cruelly injure it, one will sooner or later suffer retribution/karma! For one’s own life, one mustn’t use any method to injure another creature, as this kind of person will definitely have a bad fate!

网易山西省阳泉市网友 [冬Donnie]:

I say, what’s wrong with raising bears to get their bear bile? Can all you benevolent and righteous knights please cut Chinese medicine some slack?

qqwwqqww10xw [网易湖南省吉首市网友]:

A pen of stupid pigs, how come you guys aren’t conscientious about pigs, cows, sheep, horses, these other animals? Aren’t you yourselves eating these every day? The bears are raised by those people, they’re not wild animals, and bear bile can treat illnesses. I want to ask just what you care for. Humans, or animals? Hypocrites!

网易台湾省网友 [ask3q]:

Humanity’s progress requires the rejection of cruelty, this I don’t disagree with, but at present this country clearly has even more things worth us paying attention to and demand action on. The 2 girls in the protest wearing animal fur clothing, it would be better if you took that off and then go protest.

mojwenjoy [网易广西南宁市网友]:

So many beautiful girls, I want to join [the protest] too.

末日朝廷 [网易福建省泉州市网友]:

There’s no lack of pretentious cunts, each and every one of them sanctimonious hypocrites!!!
If you have the guts, then fucking don’t eat meat, don’t eat eggs, don’t wear fur or leather shoes.
If you have the guts, don’t even fucking stay in China, get fucking lost to Mars!!! A bunch of bastards!!!!

网易广东省佛山市网友 [香蕉插豆腐]:

This is indeed bad, but what I want to say is that after extracting their bile, they [the bears] are still able to live. However, our neighbors, those people go hunting whale everyday, each time they are killed [unlike bears], yet how come no one protests?

qwp飞踹伍毛 [网易广东省广州市网友]:

Ambitious youth, models for the masses! Especially for putting on a performance, the method most often used by people of Western nations to express their demands, which is very infectious!

caohui7271 [网易黑龙江省哈尔滨市网友]:

Support, only by taking action can we lessen the ugliness in the world. Although our power is small, although unfairness will still persist in the world, although there are still so many resentful incidents, only with one more sense of responsibility, one more conscience, one more sympathy and empathy can we and the world safely coexist, can there be even less unfairness and unreasonableness. I don’t actually think there is any publicity-seeking [for personal gain] here, and even if it is a publicity-stunt, there is still value, because at least it is much better than those around who treat this with indifference or contempt.

Currently on Youku’s homepage is a playlist featuring multiple videos concerning the live extraction of bear bile from caged bears in bear farms. The bear bile is sought for use in traditional Chinese medicine. Here is the first video of the playlist.

From Youku:

Complete Moon Bear documentary, shocking 4 year investigation

Moon Bear is a documentary produced by Xiong Junhui, Tu Qiao, and Cheng Yuanzhong over four years. According to investigations, there are presently 11 bear farms throughout the country, with the bear paw and bear bile trade being common in Jilin province and other areas. Conditions of bears in metal vests, small metal cages, and bear abuse are not uncommon. The entire process of the owners regularly feeding the bears antibiotics and collecting their bear bile in dry, oppressive, enclosed conditions [can be seen].

Portions of the documentary are in English. In less than a day, the above 45 minute documentary has been viewed ~600k times.

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  • kevinnolongerinpudong

    It’s true, this is not a nice way to treat bears.
    But I can’t help but be more concerned about the treatment of humans. If a society does not respect human rights, there’s no chance of it respecting animals.
    And, by the way, fuck the sofa.

    • Pong Lenis

      You logic is: because you can not change one thing no thing should be changed.

      And because there is something more important it’s also important to look at minor issues.

      BTW, even in China people are aware that 90% of Chinese medicine is total BS.

      • 山炮 ShanPao

        He’s right. Environmentalists and animal rights groups are the only groups that are allowed such freedom in China. Do the government like it? Probably not, but hey at least it takes the stress off. Pong Lenis, your logic is forget the important things and lets save some bears in Russia because we can. This is just a way of fooling people in to believing change is happening and that Chinese people have some freedoms, so that other issues can be forgotten… probably why this story even emerged is because the department of propaganda called the reporters and told them to be there right after they fast tracked their application to protest. Dont get me wrong, it happens everywhere else… e.g smoking ban in UK hogging news headlines for weeks when we were off killing people in two arab countries.

        If everyone was like you, then I guess we’d all end up being as gullible and easily manipulated as the Chinese.

        • http://www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

          Pong Lenis is absolutely correct in his assertion that “because you cannot change one thing, nothing should be changed” is faulty logic.

          There are already millions of people who support protests for more basic human rights in and out of china, this is not debatable. We could argue about the effectiveness, but that’s entirely due to the ccp, not the protesters.

          These people have a cause that is both logical (bear bile extraction is cruel, useless and unreasonable) and righteous.

          Pong Lenis is even more correct that people with a proper education know that traditional chinese “medicine” is not only ludicrous (not the rapper…) but has an overall negative impact on society. The few parts that might be useful are being studied in order to be produced artificially in empirically proven amounts rather than “a pinch of this and a handful of that boiled in water”.

          Bear bile is one of those things in fact. The key ingredient is just as easily produced in a lab. Not to mention that these bile farms are not clean at all, the bile is tainted with infection and antibiotics and the bear suffers an unimaginable “life” in captivity.

          There is no justifiable reason to continue this abhorrent practice. It’s absolutely disgusting.

          • kevinnolongerinpudong

            I don’t think that “nothing should be changed.” In fact, I tend to think that everything should be changed.
            But to suppose that bears could ever be treated with dignity when humans are not is extremely faulty logic.
            If what they were protesting was actually related to any “change” in any sense of the word, this story would not be on netease.

          • Alan

            There is no justifiable reason to continue this abhorrent practice. It’s absolutely disgusting.

            NOW in light of that, WOT SAYETH THEE LAD! And you are a lad!

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunting#Canada

          • mr. weiner

            ..I heard a Newfoundlander joke once ” So this baby harp seal walks into a club………”

          • kevinnolongerinpudong

            In response to Alan, one difference in the example of Canada is that I can not only protest seal clubbing. I can also protest any human rights abuses that I observe. The same does not hold in this case.
            There can be no guarantee of how bears will be treated if there is no security regarding how humans are treated. On top of that, bears are fucking mean.

          • 山炮 ShanPao

            Who gives a fuck about seals??? They are not endangered. Unless your a complete lacto-vegan (and therfore a skinny piece of pasty non human shit) you have no right to talk on any of these issues. We are humans, we have an always will exploit animals for our own gain, whether its for food, medicine, clothing or sport. Its called life. (paraphrased from Charles Darwins ‘On the origin of species’)

          • Young Man

            “Who gives a fuck about seals??? They are not endangered. ”

            Who gives a fuck about humans? They are not endangered. Very far from it.

      • Ray

        I don’t see his logic is being “because you can not change one thing no thing should be changed.” Its more like one infers the other, there is no mention about changes so I dunno where you are getting that idea.

        Hes more concerned about humans than animals right now, and that means completely logical to me since I assume that hes a human posting that comment.

        Even if you do twist his logic, the closest thing that comes to his logic will be “Because this thing didn’t change then the chance of this other thing changing is zero”. The word “should” is not even in there and that will be the word that suggests opinion.

      • themig

        more people than ever in western world practice traditional chinese medicine over western medicine. the failures of western pharmacies have been taken up by TCM. in Los angeles alone 40000 white people tkae herbs instead of aspirin when they are sick. that number will just increase as time discredits western elitism

        • mr. wiener

          I’m not going to get some acupuncture and and herbs for the next time I snap my collar bone or I need my appendix out.
          Having said that, I don’t know how TCM works, but I do know it does from the time I smoked too much weed in my youth and got cross-eyed and double vision for three months. After many catscans and MRIs and a lumbar punch the best western medicine could offer me was cortazon and anti-biotics [meaning they didn’t know what else to do].
          There is a place for both types of medicice, but as stated in above posts Bear bile has outlived it;s real use in medicine and is just snob value now because it is expensive.

        • Joe

          That’s too bad. White folks should use their superior western medicine.

      • DRaY

        Win/WIn for everyone … fuck a bear if his feelings are hurt and he loses some personal freedom… its a fucking bear! Is he gonna suffer PTSD? Is the bear gonna break down and cry the next time he sees a human after this harrowing ordeal? I hope so… Fuck them…. As a matter of fact I think we should torture every ferocious animal on the planet.. Make the run away when they see Humans.
        The majority of Humans don’t have rights in this world, … I could care less about the mistreatment of some bears.. Not like they are killing them….. Let’s move on Kiddies.

    • Pro kittens & puppies

      I dunno, it could work. After all, this is backwards land. They treat their babies like dogs and their dogs like babies here. I’ve seen a woman with a dog wearing clothes sitting in a stroller, while her human baby was walking on the side on a leash with ass-less pants. Just saying. At least they’re causing awareness about the bears, which is a good start.

      • anon

        I thought this was the land of Little Emperors and caged dog being transported to restaurants?

        And Pong Lenis, I’m pretty sure far less than 90% think of TCM as BS. I’ve rarely met someone who doesn’t at least seem to give lip service to it.

        I agree with Elijah about there being little if any justifiable reasons for this practice. Have you guys heard the ridiculous answers Guizhentang have given in the face of criticism and suggestion that artificially synthesized UDCA eliminates the need for this kind of bear bile farming? They’ve made for great sound bites.

      • DRaY

        Fuck Kittens and Puppies… I want to kill them and eat them … FUCK Animals!!!!!

        • mr. wiener

          Might have made for a better orgy on that train in Taiwan if they did :)

  • Mikecheck

    Oou can’t solve all the world’s problems, so pick a fight. These people picked theirs, good for them. Maybe I’ll join em.

  • staylost

    What is funny is that this sort of stuff causes huge problems for Muslim/non-Muslim Chinese relations. Not because Muslims are sad for bears, but because Muslims have all sorts of rules about halaal. They can’t even sit down at the table with non-Muslims in China because those non-Muslims might be eating anything and won’t tell the truth about what they put in their food anyway. Well, it would simply be funny, but in fact it is quite sad when you can’t even invite your neighbor over, can’t accept their doctor’s “medicines”…

    Last note: It is also funny that the only religion that you can be a member of and still be a CPC member is Islam. Gotta love the pictures representing China with a giant Han guy and a tiny little Muslim with a red star on his turban.

    • mr. weiner

      What? No “puff, puff, pass”. Damn I’ll have to bogart the doobie next time I invite some muslims around. Ahh well more for me then.

    • Pong Lenis

      That’s total BS. Every shithole in China has halal restaurants. I’m also unsure about the Islam-bears connection.

      Lol, love those 兰州拉面…with some 羊肉串 as side.

      • staylost

        Sorry, you must not be too high on the reading comprehension scale, so I will spell it out all basic for you:

        1. Islam has rules about what is permitted, what isn’t permitted: halal.

        2. It isn’t permitted to eat most animals under halal, and those animals must be slaughtered a certain way to be appropriate.

        3. Average Mainland Chinese people put everything possible in their dishes and don’t have the foggiest clue what dietary restrictions might even be in most cases.

        4. Muslim Chinese person wants to eat at non-Muslim Chinese person’s house.

        5. Muslim Chinese person is sad because to do so in not halal as there is a pig bleeding all over the cutting board.

        6. People that can’t even sit down at a table with their neighbor because of basic stuff like this are going to suffer a bit in the trust department.

        How would you feel if your neighbor told you they wouldn’t eat at your house because you are unclean? How would you feel if after explaining to your neighbor your reasons for the way you live still tries to get you to ganbei all the time?

        This is pretty basic stuff, and I chat with Muslims here in China all the time at my local halal restaurant. Sorry you can’t believe it.

        The bear connection is pretty simple too. Bears are not halal, so consuming their bile would not be halal (unless it was absolutely medically necessary) if just for random preventative care.

        • cc

          Now who seriously gives a toss about the Muslims, murdering backstabbing bunch of cunts the lot of them, fuck them and there backward stone age religion.

          • Young Man

            “Now who seriously gives a toss about the Muslims[?] Murdering backstabbing bunch of cunts the lot of them[;] fuck them and [their] backward stone-age religion.”

            Yes, it’s almost like they don’t know how to communicate in their own language.

        • Kong

          This has nothing to do with China or Chinese-muslim relations.

          Seriously. Muslims and Jews have this problem in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that is not predominantly muslim or jewish. Muslims and jews try the best they can to get their foods from other Muslims and Jews, or people that they trust. Muslims and Jews who actually follow these practices NEVER eat at other people’s houses anywhere in the world unless that person is also an observant Muslim/Jew.

          This here is also assuming that the Muslim or Jew is very traditionally religious, which is often not the case.

          Talk about a comment about nothing.

          • staylost

            Sorry, it does. At least according to the Chinese Muslims in China. Of course it is obvious that there are groups with food restrictions around the world, but the difference in China is the lack of trust in food labeling and the ability of a host to understand those necessary restrictions. The bear bile in TCM just reminded me of their complaints. Actually, they can all eat with me under their strictest rules because my kitchen and house are vegetarian, but that is neither here nor there.

            Of course non-conservative Jews/Muslims don’t really care, but the leaders of their communities are invariably traditionally religious and are the ones that matter in this case.

          • Kong

            All that proves is that Chinese muslims are just as ignorant about the rest of the world as other Chinese are. It wouldn’t be the first time anger has originated from false perceptions and unfulfilled expectations.

            There is no place in the world (except muslim and jewish countries) where muslims can eat anywhere/take any drugs and trust that they are halal/kosher. They either go through other muslims/jews, or they compromise.

        • andywattbulb

          Yeah, they just declaw and rip the teeth out and let them dance.
          As long as they don’t eat the bear.

        • DRaY

          FUCK Muslims and Bears….

    • donscarletti

      I ate out with a Uyghur dude a few days ago, wasn’t anything weird, we just couldn’t order any pork. I don’t like the taste of pork much anyway.

      • cc

        There are a couple of Muslims at my workplace and they never give up the chance of a free meal, they stay away from the pork, I stay away from the tainted mercury invested fish, everybody is happy, they’ll still stab you in the back though.

        • Young Man

          Pray tell us your story of woe: How did the Muslims stab you personally in the back?

  • Andao

    With all the problems in China today, I’m glad live bear bile extraction is getting the rightful attention it deserves.

    • staylost

      All it needs is one simple law. So easy to fix, yet no one seems to want to take even a simple responsibility… If the CPC can’t even fix the simple problems like this, how do you think they will do on the big ones?

      • Bruce Tutty

        The reason is that if you have one simple law…then someone has to enforce it.

        If the police don’t think they can enforce it, then they don’t want to make it illegal cos then they are left having to do a job they are incapable of doing.

        Thus proving themselves useless.

        • staylost

          That has never been a problem for the police before. In Hangzhou it is illegal to smoke in a public are, but the Mayor does it all the time. I’ve never seen the police complain.

          I think we both know that the police are useful, but are not allowed to really do their job in China.

          • Dr. Dust Cell

            *I* smoke in public areas all the time in Hangzhou, and I’ve never had any police nor establishment security stop me…

            This is actually the first time I’ve heard that it’s illegal to do so..

          • staylost

            Yeah, if the police can’t get up the strength to ask a sanitation worker about stopping smoking here, I doubt they would ever have the courage to ask anyone else.

            Hangzhou was one of the first pilot cities for the smoking free city program in China. It has been illegal for like a year and a half, with absolutely no enforcement. Anyway, the cops here want to be able to smoke wherever they are too.

          • Little Wolf

            Well….I live in Hangzhou too and I have seen the owner of the net bar near my house go around and rip cigarettes out of people’s mouths as soon as they light up out of concern he’ll get fined or shut down. Just a little guy too but he doesn’t take any shit and he also smokes but goes outside. But being a net bar cops are always popping in. And I’ve seen other places where the staff politely enforce non-smoking, but never seen the police actually write a ticket yet.

  • RichinBeijing

    The horrific scale of animal cruelty in China doesn’t even bear thinking about.

    • RichinBeijing

      It’s baffling to think that in this day and age people continue to be clawed in by the elaborate healing claims of Chinese Medicine.

      Do such consumers not paws to question how the heck bear bile remedies so many different things? To name a few: trauma, sprains, fractures, hemorrhoids, conjunctivitis, severe hepatitis, high fever, convulsions, delirium……

      Moreover, do they not consider the pointless suffering these animals go through for the extraction of an entirely meaningless ingredient in an already useless and bygone and brew?

      One who warrants the suffering of a beast for one’s own relief from suffering is but a beast himself. Especially a daft c*nt who doesn’t know about modern medical science or prescription drugs fur fuck’s sake.

      • Free Perfection Editor

        It’s baffling to think that in this day and age people continue to be clawed in by the elaborate healing claims of Traditional Chinese Medicine.

        Do such consumers not paws to question how the heck bear bile could possibly remedy so many different things? To name a few: trauma, sprains, fractures, hemorrhoids, conjunctivitis, severe hepatitis, high fever, convulsions, delirium……

        Moreover, do they not consider the pointless suffering these animals have to bear for the extraction of an entirely meaningless ingredient in an already useless and bygone brew?

        One who warrants the suffering of a beast for one’s own relief from suffering is but a beast himself. Especially a daft cunt who doesn’t know about modern medical science or prescription drugs fur fuck’s sake.

        • doc

          Clearly this shows how you little know about medicine in general. Ever see the list of problems and symptoms that say “estrogen” can treat? You dont think that that estrogen could be taken from animals (and was in the past). And that because it comes from an animal source, that its any less effective or potent?

          Secondly, TCM doctors in China do not prescribe bear bile. Its country side doctors that do this sort of thing. Believe it or not, but TCM doctors in China are quite well educated for the most part and are aware of what is sustainable herbal medicine. 90% of these “daft cunts” have a hell of alot more scientific knowledge than you.

          • Kong


            In general, TCM doctors are very knowledgeable. Mainly because they are often not only required to study Western medicine, but also since TCM does not “specialize” in areas of the body, so they have to cover everything. It takes a very long time to be a TCM practitioner.

            That’s not to say there aren’t fakes, but considerably fewer than in the West.

          • http://www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

            @ doc:

            Problem is that estrogen is a quantifiable chemical that has a clear effect on the human body. In fact the effects on the human body are huge and multi-faceted as is evidenced by the changes undergone by a girl in puberty as well as pregnancy….. That’s why it’s use to treat so many different things: because it can. Also, I’ve never heard of inhumane farms where animals are kept strapped in cages so their estrogen can be removed… It comes from piss… Originally it came from pregnant Canadian women, then from mares. Everyone knows that horses and pregnant hate peeing and find it difficult to do so… They need to be coerced every damn time.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen#Medical_applications

            @ Kong:

            There are so many problems with your comment is difficult to know where to begin.

            1. Do you know the consequences of practicing medicine in Western countries? In china all you have to do is go to another province and hide for a bit. Yes, it happens ALL THE TIME.

            2. Which country is synonymous with fake and/or unsafe products? I forget from the lead poisoning.

            3. Medicine is medicine based on it’s effectiveness of treating illnesses, disorders, symptoms, etc. NOT because of where it came from whether it be a country or a way of thinking. If it is empirically proven to be effective with a regulated dose for a certain condition, then it earns the title of medicine.

            It’s like a doctor saying that Swiss-made Tylenol is better somehow than Canadian-made Tylenol or Australian made Tylenol. As long as it’s the end result is the same, no one cares.

            Or more descriptively, when someone has to rely on the origins of the so-called “medicine” rather than the proven effectiveness, it sets my scam-detector off. EX: The snake-oil product is a blend of ancient Native American oils, herbs and mixed in the traditional all-natural way. It’s a recipe I acquired by spending years and years with a Native shaman before he passed away and on his deathbed he whispered the secret only to me. It can be yours for only $19.99………………………………………………………

            If someone wants to seep randome twigs and herbs in hot water for half an hour to “cure” their illnesses, then that’s their choice, but please don’t tell me it’s real medicine with scientifically acquired proof.

          • doc

            @Elijah

            My point was not about the method of extraction, but that something raw extracted from an animal can be applied to a wide variety of situations and illness. This concept of “one drug” to “one illness” is ridiculous.

            I do not support the use of bile being used from bears, however just because the method of extraction and the inhumane conditions, does not mean that it doesn’t necessarily have an effect.

            Furthermore, regarding your answer to Kong, clearly you DONT know what you are talking about when it comes to medical licenses in China. Maybe in some proviences people can get away with certain things, but here in Jiangsu, anyone who is practicing medicine has all of their employment records being copied. These things follow you for life and are kept by the government (not just your employer). If you go see a doctor at a non-licensed clinic or hospital however, you are just as dumb as someone who does that in the US. (And clearly you are asking for trouble).

            3. Really? You think where medicine is being practiced has no relation to its effectiveness?

          • http://www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

            @ doc:

            I never said that one drug was only good for one condition, I’m sure where you got that from. In fact I point that estrogen has a wide field of conditions that it can be applied to. AND I only did that because you questioned the effectiveness of it in response to the previous commenter. I think he is still correct, although a bit off the point. The problem with the list of things that are supposedly treated by bile products is overly-long and half of them are not even related. Therefore I’d say the difference between the list of conditions used by estrogen and bear bile IS different, not because of the number, but rather the relationship between them. IE: Estrogen is used for conditions related to reproduction and sexuality. Bear bile is used for….. whatever?

            Secondly, as I pointed out before, the key ingredients in bear bile can be safely created in a lad for maximum purity and as such there is no justifiable reason for this barbaric cruelty. I never said that certain chemical compounds were not useful. Only that they should be scientifically PROVEN first and labelled as medicine second.

            Thirdly, I might not know everything there is to know about medical licenses in china, but I do know a lot about ethical practices in china. People change their name and flee to the next province all the time in china, it’s often the easiest way of fleeing the police because they don’t communicate across jurisdictions and few people bother to dig deeper as long as the surface is presentable. This also in response to Kong’s baffling comment about more fakes in “the West” than in china, which is silly to the point of willful ignorance.

            Lastly, I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic with your last assertion or not. If you’re asking seriously, then I would have to say of course not. A Tylenol taken by me in china or Canada or Hong Kong or Pakistan or the US or Australia will have the same effect regardless of where I take it. Empirically proven medicine is called “empirically proven medicine” because it has the same results again and again no matter where…. That’s the whole point of it being proven.

            I really can’t believe that anyone falls for that nonsense. It would be like removing all logic from medicine and just sticking in random bits of folk-lore and mysticism as a replacement. Frankly, the whole thing is laughable. If something works, it’s because of cause and effect. Some chemical compound cause something in the body to have an effect.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine

            Read it, it’s hilarious. So tragically outdated and ridiculous, that we may as well drill holes in our heads for a headache to let the demons out and therefore dispel the disharmony of our Qi……..

          • Kong

            Elijah:
            1.) That is a legal issue, not a medical one. Failure in medical law does not imply a failure in medicine. As you said, it’s based on effectiveness, not origin. If a western doctor could escape malpractice by fleeing the state, would it discredit “western medicine”? I think not.

            2.) Again, that has little to do with medical knowledge, and more to do with quality control, something that equally applies to “western medicine” in China.

            3.) Chinese medicine is not magic. Herbs, bugs, etc. have chemicals in them that have certain effects on the body in various ways, and have been tested for millennia. Science is a codified blend of empiricism and reasoning. It’s been around forever. The difference between “western medicine” and “chinese medicine” is that much of “western medical practice” promotes drugs that tackles broad symptoms and have a plethora of side effects. “Chinese medical practice” tends to look at the body as a whole and prescribe treatment that will be specifically tailored to the individual.

            The randomness you ascribe to TCM implies your own ignorance, not mine. All of your points rail against Chinese medical infrastructure , not TCM itself.

            Either you misinterpreted my last sentence, or you have never talked to some of the “eastern medicine” practitioners here in the US. US law allows far more leeway for that kind of bs than in China, and considerably less schooling is required. Pretty much anyone can label themselves “alternative medicine” practitioners. I’m not saying that TCM practitioners here are less reliable, but rather that there is far less institutional support for legitimate practice than there is in China, and the number of frauds passing themselves off as professional is greater.

          • Alan

            2. Which country is synonymous with fake and/or unsafe products?

            @ Elijah: The very same country you live in, and where your wife can trace half her ancestry too.

            Or do you still buy into that taiwanese isnt the same as chinese story?

          • http://www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

            @ Kong:

            So you admit that there’s a serious problem in china with quality control and regulation of practitioners? I’m not even American and I can say that the comparison between the US and china in terms of fakes/fakers is a red herring at best.

            As for the actual value of traditional chinese “medicine” you can see my argument in my comment before this one. It includes a link to wikipedia for further reading.

            RE: custom tailored treatment, yes I’ve heard this argument before and it too is nonsense. If I go to the doctor to have my appendix out at the same time as a 12 year old Hong Kong girl to have her appendix out, the course of treatment will be different because the patients are different.

            Or are you implying that different “medicine ” is given to different patients for the same condition? That would only prove my point that this “medicine” hasn’t been empirically proven.

            The chinese do love to toss around the “negative side-effects” card a lot, however they tend to neglect 2 important things: 1) The main effect is to get the job done, which it does. 2) traditional chinese “medicine” has the exact same problem, ie: stop your heartburn and give you diarrhea.

            I’m not deriding you at all, in fact you and Doc have provided excellent counter-arguments, but the evidence to support this stuff is simply not there. If you read the the wikipedia link about the roots of this practice and follow those links even further, you’ll find out that it’s based almost entirely off of some ancient ‘doctor’ (what we’d call a leech or witch-doctor today) trying to explain things that he didn’t have the evidence to properly understand. And because his name/book is ancient and beyond criticism, the people that followed were forced to bend the physical evidence to support his theories, rather than the other way around.

            Simply put, Grey’s Anatomy (the book, not that horrid show) pretty much disproves most of the basis for modern day traditional chinese “medicine” and it was written a very long time ago, before CAT-scans and ultrasounds etc.

            More anecdotal evidence is that I had acute gastroenteritis (bacterial, not viral thank God) and my student as well as my friends convinced me to try tradtional chinese “medicine”. This included a kind of tea (nasty, which convinced me of it’s medicinal values haha), some small red balls in a tube and some powder stuff to mix with a drink. I suffered another 3 days in excrutiating pain before going to a doctor and getting an IV drip from an hour or two that night. Next morning, the knife-like pain was already gone and I was able to use the toilet without too much pain. Day after that I was back to normal. Of course this is anecdotal proof, not empirical proof (like chinese traditional “medicine” uses), so it doesn’t count for much.

            PS. Beware, there have been sightings of the Creepy Stalker Troll on the lose in this thread. Don’t make eye contact or it could start humping your leg.

          • Kong

            Elijah:

            The conversation what not about China’s quality control, and I never denied that. You are dismissing an entire medical perspective based on the political/legal issues of country of origin. I highly doubt you’ve ever even sat down and talked with a TCM practitioner at length.

            The elitist dismissal of TCM makes it very difficult for people to take TCM seriously, because all it does is silence the researchers and close ears. Highly unscientific and unreasonable. It’s not that TCM has been proved ineffective, it’s that any scientific research and trials are SCARCE. your own wikipedia link shows that. Anyone with the slightest understanding of how science is done knows that a lack of research does not mean disproved. Why hasn’t more research been done? It’s elitism. No one wants to fund research of non-western medical practices.

            Yes, obviously. If you’re talking about surgery. That example clearly doesn’t apply. Yes, different medicine is given to different patients for the same condition, different medicines may treat the same thing but have different side effects. The same is true in Western medicine, it’s just doctors don’t usually care to find out.

            So you’re substituting old Chinese medical texts for old Western medical texts. Okay, but you know Karl Marx never thought Asia would amount to anything. Again, a lack of evidence and a lack of research does not imply an understanding.

            Since you seem to want to go the anecdotal path, I have plenty of examples. Let’s see, TCM fixed my traveler’s diarrhea, my joint issues, and the cyst (I forget what kind of cyst it was) on my wrist. I also use 云南白药 for cuts, and 跌打酒 for bruises, all work wonderfully. The pills my doctor in the US gave me for traveler’s diarrhea made me feel sick, medicine for my joints would have cost much more than the simple dietary changes recommended by the TCM guy, and the doctor at my school said that nothing could be done about my cyst and that sometimes they just come and go randomly, but that I could have it x-rayed and cut out (even though it would only grow back). The TCM doctor in China worked something, and the cyst has never come back.

            For my anecdotal experience in the US, I have been diagnosed with ADD and OCD since 2nd grade, and have had lots of medicine forced on me. in 7th grade, the same doctor came back and told my family that she’d made a mistake and that testing showed I actually didn’t have ADD back when the tests were done, but that now I did. In late highschool, I was diagnosed with a low seizure threshold which was said to have explained my apparent ADD and OCD. I was given pills to take and threatened that if I stopped taking them, the doctor would have my driver’s license taken away. Turns out I didn’t need any of that. I was never offered an apology for the doctors’ repeated failures. They were all far too eager to put me on regular appointments and prescriptions.

            Frankly, I don’t care for the difference between “western” and “eastern” medicine. The fact is that they both work sometimes and both don’t work satisfactorily sometimes, because they are not medicine. Sometimes one is more preventative and cause-oriented, and the other merely tries to treat the symptom. TCM doctors work with both TCM and “western medicine” without discrimination, and for effectiveness, while doctors in the US look at TCM with distain despite inadequate research. To me, it’s pretty obvious who I’d rather trust. The one with knowledge, an open mind, honesty, and humility. That’s how it is for me. You don’t have to agree.

            There is a reason that the whole world embraces western medicine, and the West is embracing preventative medicine. It’s because it all has something worth offering.

          • http://www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

            @ Kong:

            Thank you for the extremely well written response.

            You’re absolutely right about my not having sat down with a practitioner, all my knowledge has come from personal reading (which I do a huge amount of to satisfy my curiousity).

            That being said, I wasn’t relying on my anecdotal evidence to proven any point (I think I said that in my last sentence of that paragraph to the effect that anecdotal evidence is worthless).

            I also agree that a large part hasn’t been thoroughly tested in lab conditions, but that still doesn’t automatically mean that it or the theory behind it is valid. You would say that it’s yet to be proven wrong, while I would say that it’s yet to be proven right. I still maintain that only after being proven effective is something truly medicine.

            Ironically though, I still use those little red balls in a white tube when I get gas cause I’ve used them before and they seem to work very well. Even more ironic, I’ve never tried Pepto Bismol despite all the evidence FOR it and as such don’t know about it’s effectiveness.

            Weird eh? hahaha

          • Kong

            Elijah:

            To me, I suppose it really comes down to this: as soon as aspects of TCM that are proven correct and scientific, they are no longer considered “TCM”. In this way, the definition of “TCM” becomes more and more marginalized to only include superstition and fraud. TCM is a vast field including bone-setting. People don’t think of it as TCM simply due to the cultural influence western thought has. That’s why I really don’t care to distinguish them.

            What we’re really talking about is the difference between untested, superstitious nonsense (like how Chinese are all afraid of ice), and legitimate medical practice. To suggest that “western science” and “TCM” are either one or the other, IMO is a bit missing the point.

            Fore example: the popular notion that bruises and bangs should be warmed and cooled alternately is common knowledge now. When I was growing up in the US, all the doctors here just said to apply ice. This treated the symptom of swelling, of course, but it also stops the blood and prevents healing. This has been long been common knowledge in TCM. We don’t think about that as TCM because we say “well we know it too”. In this way, all the practices we become familiar with, we stop associating with TCM. Continuing this way means that “medicine” will only be associated with “west” and “witchcraft” and superstition will only be associated with TCM. Intentional or not, this kind of elitism holds enormous cultural power and is a well worn strategy in the history of imperialism.

            Okay, that may have sounded a little intense, but I hope you can sift through the miasma of my wording and get my meaning. As discerning and critical eye are important tools for survival, but it doesn’t mean we need to totally close our minds to the possibilities.

        • anon

          Kinda sad there weren’t more puns. Started strong but kinda waned by the end of the second paragraph. Sad face.

    • DRaY

      The horrific Scale of Cruelty to Humans by white people is even worse.

    • DRaY

      The horrific Scale of Cruelty to Humans by white people is even un-Bear-ably worse.

      • moop

        hurp de durp de durpety dumb. hongjian, is that you?

      • mr. wiener

        The horrific scale of cruelty to humans by white people is quite grizzly :)

        • mr. wiener

          We should all paws to think about this.

  • moop

    this isn’t beary nice

    • DRaY

      I see what you did there!!!… “Beary” good one….

  • http://www.qq.com/1325279774 Kedafu

    Song of the Article

    Teddy Bear
    -some children’s song

    http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/3-BXRRfxkuk

    • http://www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

      You have earned the full force of my rage and hate for reminding me of those years where I taught kindergarten……. THAT truly is a dancing monkey job…. But the kids are uber-cute.

      Anyways, how could you forget:

      “Teddy Bear’s Picnic”
      by Anne Murray

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-fJlykpGjY

      http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjIzMzczMzgw.html

      Youku version is even more classic from 1932, worth a watch.

      10 CENTS!!!

      • mr. wiener

        I would suggest the Val Rosing version from the “singing detective”.as the best version of teddy bear’s picnic. Bing Crosby always sounded like he was on prozac.

  • Ning

    Does the pharmacy (I mean real medicine, not TCM) market in china have lots of fake products? Can anyone familiar with health care inside China enlighten me?

    I was just figuring, that if the bluepill could be trusted then there wouldn’t be a market for sharkfin and rhino horn. Apparently ursodeoxycholic acid is easy to purify from slaughterhouse byproducts and to synthetize entirely, so why do they need to torture bears? It’s not even hygienic to use bile that drips out from an infected fistula, if only humans are to be concerned…

    How is the general knowledge of health in PRC? I know that western MD’s should tell their patients to stop smoking and being fat if they seek help for impotence, gallstones, heart disease etc… Do chinese doctors and schools even teach preventive healthcare/lifestyle choices?

    • moop

      being a part of chinese culture, traditional medicine is believed to be superior than western medicine. many of these subnormals also have been convinced by the tcm industry that western medicine is dangerous and only treats symptoms but doesn’t cure. that being said there are also problems with fake medicine in china. but that’s normal with anything here. chinese medicines are also faked, or have chemicals added to them. anything you ingest in china is potentially harmful.

      • Bruce Tutty

        Only the evil use ignorance to confuse the innocent.

        • anon

          Agree, but that’s how moop posts here.

          To answer Ning, there are fake medicines in China but there is no trend of Chinese people resorting to TCM because they fear fake medicine.

          The movement has been to position TCM as complementary to “Western” medicine and medical care, with emphases on it being more about prevention and as alternative treatment. They’re not buying shark fin (more known as a delicacy than TCM medicine) or rhino horn (pretty sure this is an aphrodisiac than TCM medicine) because they fear the “blue pill” so to speak.

          I’d say the general knowledge of health is overall probably not that different from the West. Most people aren’t really that knowledgeable about health if you think about it. There’s more of a difference in what health issues they face given different environments and lifestyles. Obesity for example is more prevalent in the West than in China (though that’s changing for many in middle-class China), but certain health issues in China are more prevalent than in the West.

          • moop

            yeah asshole, try to get someone living in a village to take western meds over chinese meds. they won’t do it. everytime i go to a pharmacy someone tries to puch tcm down my throat. people here actually think that air can enter and exit their bodies through their belly-buttons and you dare say “the general knowledge of health is overall probably not that different from the West”? go fuck yourself anon and you passive agressive psuedo-intellectual bullshit

          • anon

            I don’t think you know what “passive aggressive” means, so stop trying so hard before you hurt yourself.

            I’ve been to a lot of backwater villages in China and generally speaking, they don’t treat Western medicine remotely like the plague you suggest.

    • doc

      “Do chinese doctors and schools even teach preventive healthcare/lifestyle choices?”

      Im a laowai who has both western medicine and TCM university level training both in and outside of China. (At a Ph.D level). Preventative medicine is taught much more in TCM education than western medicine. Its pretty much on par with what is happening in the US in many ways. Most medical schools in the US teach around 15 hours of nutrition.

      While preventative medicine is ideal, people in China are more just trying to survive. Think where medicine was in america in the 70s in many ways.

      PS, check with the US statistics for deaths related to herbal medicine in 2010/2011. Then check for deaths related to western medicine. (hint: the first is zero).

      • Sunshine

        The trend for the past few years has been to put more emphasis on preventive care or “养生” for TCM. Turn to ANY channel on TV and I guarantee that there is a show dedicated to “养生”/healthy living featuring TCM. I believe its quite effective as I’ve witnessed first hand the impact it has on its average viewers. I hope this trend continues.

      • Mikecheck

        The problem with TCM is half of it is brilliant, proven by centuries of effective use and backed up to some extent by science and the other half is voodoo-juju-mumbo-jumbo.

      • Jeff G.

        Hilarious. Yeah, no one ever poisoned their liver from herbal use. Don’t suppose you subscribe to Natural Database, eh “Doc?” Sorry, it’s just that your “absolute zero” statement kind of jumped out from the rest of the comments. In medicine, there are no Zeros. Disinformation.

  • Kim Jung iLL

    Unfortunately its just a few of them.

  • Castro

    Ok, it’s 2012, can we get to the bottom of this?

    Is bear bile medicinal ? Yes or No !

    Einstein where are you ??

  • typingfromwork

    Good to see protests on this babaric practice. This is just the first step. Even when legislation for closing bear farms are passed there is still the problem of enforcement. Unfortunately some traditional superstitious reliance on certain aspects of TCM are not going to go away in a hurry.

    This is going to be a long fight, like poaching in Africa.

    • staylost

      …like poaching in Africa.

      Which is also heavily funded by China.

      • typingfromwork

        The nouveau riche in China wants them some rhino horn. They are responsible for the recent surge in poaching but it has always been a major problem. People around the world just seems to like exotic animal parts from Africa.

        You can say the same thing about whaling for the Japanese and Norway. Bad traditions are like bad habits- they die away very, very slowly.

        • baasbabelaas

          I’m a South African and the day I catch a Chinaman using rhino horn I am going to bitch slap him back to 1200AD, African stylee.

          • mr. wiener

            lekke!

  • 1518

    This is very positive, not because the treatment of bears is a big problem, but because these people feel social responsibility.

    Two thumbs up for good news about Chinese society.

  • Jeff

    It’s China. So F’ing what do we care about some dumbass bears?

  • MrT

    Good stuff.Made me cry, well nearly.

  • nereis

    The comments that equivocate a cruel and unhygienic practice with questionable medical specificity or efficacy as established by falsifiability with the consumption of any animal product make me facepalm.

    One is ostensibly to create ‘medicine’. The other is basic sustenance. Apples and oranges.

  • Chinggis was here

    I’m waiting for Chinese girls to fully embrace FEMEN style protest. Jiayu

    I’m also impressed by the cuteness of Chinese activist chicks, where I come from female activists look like pissed off bull dykes.

  • Gary

    The chick in yellow in the second picture is super hot.

    Oh yeah, be nice to bears.

  • andywattbulb

    To all you people saying “why save the bears when they can’t even save the humans?”

    Really?

    So because one problem isn’t solved you have to freeze all the other “minor” problems?

  • Foreign Devil

    Interesting that none of the Chinese people commented on the fact that bear bile has no medicinal value whatsoever. I guess they still believe in the voodoo.

    • Joe

      Haha you are ignorant. A pity you’ll never realize it.

  • Foreign Devil

    Notice how it is always the rarest animals or the hardest to capture, that have all the “medicinal” organs. Why can’t they use cow horn instead of Rhino horn? Or suck on pigs balls instead of bear balls? Idiots!

    • hanyucha

      It’s because they have medicinal organs and have been over-hunted that they are the rarest animals, not the other way around.

      • nereis

        Or maybe it’s because rhinos and bears require much more resources to live and as such their numbers will never approach those of wild cattle or pigs.

        Also, what exactly is the chemical difference between Rhino horn and your finger nails? Both are keratin.

        Chinese ‘medicine’, I’d hesitate to call anything based on superstition and lacking academic rigorous testing procedures medicine, is a relic and ought to be wiped out.

        • Joe

          >based on superstition
          >lacking rigorous testing procedures

          Absolutely clueless. White people are so eager to talk about things they know nothing about.

          • nereis

            Please outline the entire testing procedure any drug under the Traditional Chinese Medicine Doctrine must follow, including animal testing, clinical trials and double blind procedures and how you would control for placebo effect.

          • Joe

            >implying all testing must follow the western methodology to be legitimate
            Last I heard some athletes in the west were eagerly using lurong (associated with yang no less) to improve their physical performance. But of course you’ll just keep assuming it’s are just some sort of silly, archaic Chinese superstition randomly pulled out of someone’s ass. It seems you think the west is the end all for proving efficacy. Too bad. The truth does not require western techniques to be proven true.

          • Joe

            But then again, on to the topic of glass houses. How many western medicines are truly successful? Or do they simply suppress a symptom only to generate a plethora of side effects? Let’s take chemo, a supposedly “successful” method of treating cancer. What’s the survival rate there? Hilarious. ADD drugs. Successful. Yeah, western medicine is proven all right. Proven bullshit to help drug companies make money off of naive saps like you. I’ll take holistic TCM any day of the week, with its emphasis on nutrition and preventative care.

          • Bruce Tutty

            Spoken again like someone who doesn’t know.

            Most of them are *very* successful, from vaccines through to the mechanistic cures.

            There are many with side effects, but this is true of ‘traditional’ medicines to. Take to much and some can kill you.

            The ‘rigorous testing procedures’ involved are double-blind controlled trials?..which I presume you know about from what you say.

            My wife is a qualified Medical Herbalist in the UK, so we have a chance to look at many branches of medicine, and don’t feel the need to rubbish any of them simply because we don’t understand them.

          • Bruce Tutty

            Your understanding seems to be based on ignoring anyone that doesn’t agree with you, and calling them ‘white people’ when you don’t know what colour they are just makes you racist.

          • Bruce Tutty

            And while I’m here, there is no ‘Western method’, as it was comes ancient Greek and the Middle East, but you would know that of course, since you are speaking about it.

            There isn’t even a ‘West’, as i come from the southern hemisphere. It seems to refer mostly to the US and UK.

          • dim mak

            Empirical proof isn’t “western technique” practiced by white people, it’s just standard practice

            That’s the problem with this debate, it’s all Chinese vs Western emotional butthurt with no real discussion

            Anyone that isn’t caught up in their feelings would realize the correct framework for this would Conventional vs Alternative medicine, as there’s no such thing as regional medicine and that faggery doesn’t matter when treating patients. Even that is borderline retarded. Real medicine shouldn’t even differentiate between “styles”, it should just be the treatments proven to work

            Take my parents for example: they’ll go to modern medicine for some things like serious onset illnesses or surgery, but they’ll also go to TCM doctors for more subtle ailments like chronic pain or sleeplessness, there’s no contradiction for them.

            What I find sketchy is that every TCM doctor prescribes different things, none have ever given me or my parents a biochemical explanation of how they work. Every time I ask it’s something like “well your body is a cold type therefore requires warm type foods” or “this boosts the blood” and I ask them how and it’s “because it’s good for X organ”, but then they can’t say specifically why it’s good for that organ. I mean if this was just the occasional charlatan here and there I’d just ignore them, but it is every single one they’ve been to. Sometimes my folks think one is a miracle worker and one is a total fraud. Maybe they’re right, but who knows?

            There’s an unspoken consensus in the Chinese community here that TCM is about supporting your health and also a last resort in hopes of finding that one uber good doctor who knows some crazy secrets that can cure you when conventional medicine can’t. Are there doctors like that? Possibly. But how do we know? In a fully empirical system such information should be published and shared in databases for public and professional verification, and no practitioner would be that different from another. I could type in the chemical compound of whatever pill in Google and see its official information and people’s personal experiences. But you look up half the plants in your paper package and all you get is vague new agey bullshit and widely varying accounts. Granted organic chemistry is much more complex but you need some kind of standard man.

            I believe it was Sagan who said something like “We should mine ethnobotany for its wealth of information, but also subject it to rigorous scientific analysis.” That’s the way to go.

          • Joe

            Yeah, those vaccines are successful alright. Successful at increasing autism rates. Last I read it was 1/100 now? I understand how western medications work quite well. I rubbish it because it is entirely unnecessary and simply a scam to help drug companies make money. What good are ridiculous synthetic medications that can cost $100+ a bottle when there are natural alternatives for a fraction of the price? So if western medications are so ridiculously expensive, and there are natural alternatives at a fraction of the cost that are equally effective, then what does that make synthetic medications? If not rubbish then what?

            The west includes Europe, Australia and America. The Anglo countries.

          • Little Wolf

            Well, I have low regard of doctors to begin with, both western and TCM simply because of so much bad experience with them. (I’m mostly talking about your average general practioners, not the sort that are 3rd World volunteers or specialty surgeons, inventors,etc nor am I saying there are not any good ones) I have 2 shoeboxes full of absolutely worthless shit that I have been prescribed over the years. Some of was pretty expensive, too. After getting(literally) sick of being their guinea pig, I delved into research on my own and found a western drug that worked just fine and costs 2.4 kuai for a bottle of 100. I recently went to “re-up” and sat behind a girl and watched the doctor make up a whole shopping list of of potions, glass bottles, IV bags and a wide array of boxes of ? The girl never once spoke up and asked “what’s this for?” or “why do I need this”, just blindly accepting that everything prescribed was necessary. After getting my prescription filled I was behind the girl in the cashier line(no, I wasn’t following her, just coincidence) and her bill was over 4,000 kuai. I was almost embarrassed to pay my measly 2.4 yuan. Again, I was behind her at the pharmacy window(for quite a while) as they filled up 3 shopping bags of medicines. As I left the hospital, I noticed her riding a real shabby bike. Yeah, looks can be deceiving, but she just seemed to be a person that 4,000 kuai puts a big dent in her savings.
            I am amazed at the trust and blind faith people have in “doctors”.

  • david

    Who am I to say anything bad about this or that however, when it comes to animals, i cannot control myself.

    for example, i never fight but 2 years ago a man was beating his dog, i couldn’t stop myself, i just manhandled the asshole. enough said.

    these people are disgusting. I would do the same to the people who do this.

    shitz gotta stop folks. this really doesn’t make china look good.

    • wang zhu

      so you believe you have a better charactor than a man who beats dogs ?? yet you are beating other humans.

      you are hypocrite.

      • nereis

        Men are equals. Dogs are inferiors and as such are deserving of understanding and patience, like a child.

        Same reason why we should never tolerate a man who abuses his children.

        • http://www.wtchina.freeforums.org Elijah

          Exactly. There’s an old saying in “the West” :

          You can tell a lot about a society from how it treats those less fortunate/powerful.

          How they treat their kids, service workers (waiter, maid, etc.), animals, homeless, sick, etc. shows a lot about how a person is really like.

  • Johnny Basic

    BUT BEAR BILE VERY GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTHY!

  • 平凡人

    Too many animals and humans to save here, just too many.

  • Bunny99

    The girl is the yellow coat is so pretty – so everything they are saying must be true.

    Save the bears!

  • FlendyToberson

    Awwww, so cute that they think they will have an impact on the Chinese Capitalists

    • Xiongmao

      They might. The party are actually trying to update the law but as with everything in China it’s a huge amount of work and the inertia is strong. Most of today’s leaders are very well educated and several hold doctorates. They want to change China to a more civilized standard but yes, there are too many uneducated farmers, factories and the economy hindering much of it. Hopefully animal cruelty laws can get priority.

  • cc

    As an after thought we can always go back to the Jim rose Circus for bile drinking.

  • dim mak

    Well you eat the pigs and cows, that’s the difference
    This is wasteful and needless cruelty

    Solution: Eat the whole bear

    • mr. wiener

      I hear bear bacon is delicious. :P

  • Xiongmao

    Sad to see so many Chinese comments still living in Mao’s times. I wonder how many of those dumbasses saying “first we should do something about humans and human rights before animals” are actually doing anything about that at all. I fully support these people. China is in dire need of some animal protection laws with substance.

  • Dan Danger

    A issue here is the prevalence in the 2st century in China, the #2 economy in the world of these silly and backwards superstitions. Like that somehow bear bile, or bear claws or other animal parts, have some curative properties. It is practically witchcraft. How can you argue with a mindset that believes eating an animal’s penis has the ability to treat bodily ailments. If people are fanatical about consuming penises you can stop them from drinking bile.

    • dim mak

      Yeah all the shit about bear bile, animal penises, rhino horn etc are just a tiny and insignificant phenomenon that are only known because they’re sensationalized by outsiders

      Go to any TCM supply shop and it’s almost all herbs, fungi, ginseng and chips of wood

      If there are any “mainstream” animal parts in TCM it’d be like seahorses, turtle shells and deer antlers. Although I’ve seen quite a few jars of dried centipedes in HK. Not sure if those are actually used.

  • -____-

    good on them, bears r cute :3

  • Jeff G.

    “This is indeed bad, but what I want to say is that after extracting their bile, they [the bears] are still able to live. However, our neighbors, those people go hunting whale everyday, each time they are killed [unlike bears], yet how come no one protests?”

    This above comment is a clear indication of the pervasive ignorance that plagues the uneducated portion of the Chinese society. First of all, daily protests against whale hunting occur around the world. If the Chinese people were allowed to see, hear, or read “real, actual, and true” news, they would know this. But, sadly, they are insulated from the rest of the world in most cases. Many Chinese people recognize practices like bear bile live extraction as the cruel and worthless practice that it is, but many Chinese people remain clueless and ignorant to how wrong and unnecessary it is. Congratulations to the protestors for standing up to what is wrong and should be illegal.

  • steve

    Uah how many clevear people here, congratulations! so because european people eating meat we need to allow that a wild animal leaves 30 years in a cage of 2 meaters for one, suffering all his life. Ok, no one should sayng “do not eat bears or dogs meat, that is wrong” but please avoid the same stupid rhetoric when talking about animal rights and cruelty.

  • steve

    The girl in the yellow and the one in black having her picture taken are hot.

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