A Shanghai Jiaotong University female’s views on marriage.
Author: Self-professed leader of the Jiaotong University football [soccer] cheerleading team.
I am a female student of Shanghai Jiaotong University. It’s my first time writing a post. Please don’t laugh at my bad writing.
Everyone has an ideal in life. Some wants to become a hero, some wants to become rich, some other desires to become a leader. So what about me? My greatest wish in life is to marry a Western1 man. Some might say I am very vulgar, or even a turncoat, but I am a very traditional girl. To me, the most important thing in life is marriage. There is a very trendy saying currently, that studying well is not as good as marrying well. Marrying the right man is more important than anything else.
Some might ask, “Are there not enough good men in China?” Sorry, I have not considered before. As for the reason, don’t be impatient. Sofa, stool, the floor, take your pick, and listen to this girl’s reasons one by one.
I. China does not have any men suitable for me.
I am a very distinct/outstanding girl. In terms of academics, I am studying at a famous university, have an excellent academic record, and I am not one who wears thick glasses or sticks her head into books like a high-IQ geek. I have an excellent figure, an amazing look and a cultivated style of conversation. I am the leader of the football [soccer] cheerleading team. I took part in the local beauty pageants many times. I also have an interest for music, dance and art. Additionally, I often write some gossips for the newspaper. In summary, I am an excellent girl in every aspect. But what kind of man should I marry? There are lots of boys who are pursuing me, and most of my friends have boyfriends as well.
But when they graduate, they either break up, or they start talking about marriage, about family matters and where to settle down. They talk so seriously about everything, expect for love which is the most important thing in a marriage. I am very passionate about my life, I wish to have both a excellent materialist and spiritual life. Sorry that I can’t find that on a Chinese man. Marry a schoolmate, eventually become a white collar in a company? Can that afford a house?
I want to have a huge living room, big enough to be like a small salon. I could be together with my friends talking about anything under the sun, savoring high quality wine. Even the bathroom must be big enough to fit in a large bathtub, for two people, so I can put on some gentle music and spend a romantic night with my beloved husband.
Also, the guy I marry must at least have enough money to buy a car, right? Or am I supposed to go to work by bus everyday? It is like in a freezer in winter, and in a microwave in summer, and within a few years a beautiful young girl will become a dark-skinned granny. Besides, are you guys really willing to let a white-collar beauty like me be pushed around by those dirty migrant workers?
China definitely does not lack rich men, but have a look at what kind of people they are. How many of them succeeded due to their own effort, ability or honesty? If they are not brick-moving labour contractors, then they are coal-digging boss from Shanxi, or they are corrupt. They are neither civilised, nor do they have a good bearing. How am I supposed to converse with them? To be honest, they will regard it as art if you are able to hum a few lines of pop music.
When they have money, they will go out eating, drinking, visiting prostitutes, or gambling. Just trying to live a peaceful life would be difficult. There are already people coming to the university to pursue me, extending their arms to give me business cards showing that they are some CEO, chairmen of the board, high-ranking bureaucrats, each of them wealthier and more arrogant than the other. Some even directly suggest me to be their concubine. Oh my God! I may not be an exceptionally beautiful woman, but I am at least a young and beautiful girl, who worked very hard for years to get into a prestigious university, and I can only be a mistress?!
II. Western countries have better living conditions.
Even if a rich single guy, outstanding, elegant, and falls in love with me, hmph hmph, this girl [referring to self] still will not really want to marry him. To be blunt, I just want to marry into the West. The Western world I have seen in television and movies is simply like heaven: clean streets, elegant buildings, pure air. Regardless whether bustling cities or quiet villages, everything seems to be so peaceful and harmonious. Regardless their academic background, everyone is very polite.
Based on this MM’s [my] abilities, I could of course be a woman who lives in a villa, but so what? Even if we can afford a villa, can we buy clean air? Isn’t there dirt and dust everywhere in this country? The rural areas are better, but I don’t want to go there. Wouldn’t it be weird, if while I am sun-bathing in a bikini at my swimming pool a bunch of farmers outside the fence carrying baskets of dung stare at me? Tibet indeed has very pure air, but please, this girl is afraid of high attitude sickness.
I especially dislike the current living environment. Every home has anti-theft doors, and despite having lived in the same building for years, everyone is awkward every time they meet each other. Many people can’t even be bothered to bring their garbage downstairs, piling it up in front of the doors in the summer stinking. Sometimes I even wonder whether I am not living together with a bunch of cavemen. Rice has poison, milk powder will result in big heads, pork is from floods, oil is from the ditches, just thinking about it makes me terrified.
Sorry, you want me to love you, give me a reason first? Don’t have any? Start loving foreign countries. The American “home town” [sic], France’s vinyards, Spanish coastal towns, British medieval villages, it could be any of those. One of my schoolmates went to study abroad in Canada, and brought his/her father there for half a year. and when he came back he would whine: “Ai, that [Canada] is really a place fit for people to live.” Don’t give me any excuses, if you want my love, you have to give me a reason, right?
The costs of living in China is too high. We spend like Americans and earn like Africans. My parents worked hard to send me to university, so I should repay them and take care of them right? Even I become a high-ranking white-collar, would the salary really be that high? My parents are getting old. If they become ill and hospitalised, what can I do about the excessively expensive medical bills? Western countries have universal health care. Especially the job market in China, there is nothing to be praised. Each time I see the over-crowded job fairs, I almost get a heart attack. Dear me! The job fairs are rather like WW2 Omaha Beach (Normandy on D-Day). I am a delicate girl, how can I squeeze through these smelly guys?
As a modern woman, the first task in life is to survive, study and get into university, find a job, save money for a house, and save money for retirement. Which one of these does not require slaving away? Isn’t it tiring? If my fellow schoolgirls did not become dark-skinned grannies after graduating, they found a rich person to marry, and allow their husbands to go out eating, drinking, visiting prostitutes, and gambling, pretending they do not know, why suffer?
III. Western boys are all very excellent.
Having said this much, that the environment is good, material things are good, this third point is what I value the most: I simply like Western men. Ever since I was small, I liked watching Western movies, such as Roman Holiday” or “Gone with the Wind,” and I liked watching the Westerners in the movies, their faces are all so sharp and distinctive, especially their charming coloured eyes, their straight pronounced noses, their tight smooth lips. Moreover, the majority of Westerners are tall, have strong and handsome physiques, and always so sexy. Then I look at the Chinese guys around me: Ignoring the small eyes, they have lumpy noses, thick lips, and if their skin is tanned a bit, they look remarkably like Africans. Those who have been educated almost all look malnourished, making me worried whether they can protect me or not. Occasionally, there is a muscular man, but despite having grown a head, they did not grow a brain.
Many college guys are pursuing me, and other guys in society also often ask me out on dates, but there are not many I like. Each of them either look like a soy sprout, or like Ultraman [character from a Japanese TV show], each of them unkempt, and at minimum each of them do not pay attention to their own image. Many of the guys spit in public, I particularly dislike people who do this. Only little children and animals defecate and urinate everywhere, and spitting in public is not much better than defecating and urinating in public, so at most they count only as half-civilised.
The majority of Western men carry themselves elegantly and well, because they received good education from when they were small. In our city there are McDonald’s and KFC restaurants, and I often go there with friends to eat. All the Western men in the restaurants seem to have good upbringing, opening doors for others to enter first. Chinese guys, the moment the door opens, they rush towards the counter, often colliding with people exiting, as if they were the reincarnation of someone who starved to death in their last life. The Westerners1 who enter all stand in line, Chinese men rush up in a crowd, surrounding the counter shouting their orders. as if they haven’t eaten any food in a long time. And without being ashamed, they throw their trash wherever after eating, but those Westerners would fold up the waste paper in their trays, making it convenient to dispose, and what they haven’t finished, they throw go dispose of in the wastebins by themselves. The two are simply are not the same level of people.
Furthermore, some Chinese men lack a sense of independence, only knowing how to revolve around girls, living like a super nanny. I feel they don’t have a self, sticking their thoughts on girls all day. Getting on the bus, they scramble for a seat, then busy themselves trying to give it to a girl, not caring about the elderly or children beside them, that I am embarrassed to sit down. This kind of men I also look down upon, revolving around their girlfriends before marriage, revolving around their wives after marriage, revolving around their bosses at work, and revolving around the kitchen after work. No thoughts, no temper, my god, I would be afraid of the son I have with this man being like his father, a model citizen so obviously cultivated by an authoritarian country. What girl does not like a man with personality and courage?
Western men were all raised in an environment of independence. They have independent thinking, not like Chinese men, who are parrots. Take my schoolmates for example. When the government talks about Japan and China’s good bilateral relationships, they like Japan. When the government promotes nationalism, they shout about attacking Japan. Each and every one of them are brainless, played like monkeys by others, yet still thinking themselves to be high and mighty. The whole lot of them a bunch of “pig headed men.”
There are some things I cannot say in real life, so I can only say them online.
In summary, I simply want to marry a Westerner, at best an American, but European is not bad either. As for criteria…I am not very demanding, it is no big deal even if his education is lower than mine, and no specific requirements about his work…isn’t the monthly salary for washing dishes at McDonald’s over a thousand USD? This can still allow him to buy a car and house. If this isn’t possible, I will just find a divorced man and be willing to be a stepmother. Besides, Western children have a strong sense of independence, at least they will not let me always clean up after them and cater to their every whim, right? If even this is not possible, Japanese or Korean men I would also consider, I would even consider marrying a Korean or Japanese. At worst, they will not cook for me. No matter what, I just want to leave the country and go to the West, if not for freedom then for money.2
I admit I am very worldly, but I don’t consider my thinking to be wrong. I am not hurting other people, I just want to live a better life, whether it is materially or culturally. I watched an American show “Desperate Housewives.” That quiet village, clean streets, green lawns, and elegant, polite neighbours, and I knew, that is the kind of life I want.
This story has actually been on the Chinese internet for some time, maybe a year. It will occassionally reappear and there will be new comments by netizens who have not read the story before. Copies of the original Chinese can be found on Xinhua and Baidu.
Notes:
1 She used the words 老外 [lǎo wài] and 西方男人 [xī fāng nán rén] here interchangably which literally mean “old foreigner” and “Western men” respectively. I consistently used the word “western”, although “老外 [lǎo wài]” of course would theoretically also include Korean or Japanese. But it is usually applied to Westerners or countries with a similiar political or cultural system.
2 The original Chinese words used were 选票 [xuǎn piào] and 钞票 [chāo piào] which mean “vote” and “banknotes” respectively. They both end in the same character, literally saying “voting slip” and “money slip”.
Comments from Baidu:
Clever, very clever!!! Only one sentence, nothing more to say.
First: With this kind of mindset, even if I was rich I would not want.
Second: This kind of female, is suitable for being a walking corpse [rotten, useless person]
Third: Counting three generations upwards, your ancestors were all peasant farmers. According to your thinking, all of your male ancestors would never be able to get a wife, so please tell me where did you come from?
Fourth: After letting the dogs fuck you ten thousand times, let then every Japanese do you. Go become a comfort woman for the Japanese.
After reading that, I am speechless. But I forced myself to write a reply, for the dignity of Chinese men. I tried hard not to immediately curse you, but in the end I cannot stop myself. You are simply a woman who did not get enough dick in your last life, what damn qualifications do you have for scolding Chinese men, including all the men in your family, and of course your own father. I imagine your dad would be pissed to death after reading this, and even if he did not die, he would become an idiot because your dad is also a Chinese man. You have grown up wasting how much of the country’s resources, and have you made just one day’s contribution to the country after graduating? Instead, you deny/reject your own ancestors, you “white eyed wolf” [someone who bites the hand that feeds her]. Had he known you were like this, your dad should have held back three seconds so he could ejaculate onto the wall instead, to save me from being pissed off today because of you, wasting my time to replying to this post.
Everyone has the right to choose their own life. As a Chinese, her being able to write out all of this is also not an easy thing to do, so it is possible that Chinese men really have let you down. I don’t know if you wrote this post in one go, I think it is not bad, and demonstrates your writing talent. But have a closer look at your essay: Everything you know about what is outside of the country comes from movies and media. I don’t know whether you are still studying or already working, but I want to say that nothing in the real world is absolute. Where there are good people, there will also be bad people; this is a very balanced world. Furthermore, have you done the calculations? How much wealth can you create? Everyone is clear about what they want, especially someone who has received higher education like you. Marriage is not like dating, marriage is even less a joke. Who do you think would look for a recent graduate who, other than being well-educated and pretty (this is what you said, I have never met you), cannot create any value? I say this without implying anything else, only wanting to say that if you want to reach your goal, should you not first consider for a moment where your own worth is?
Having your own dream is a virtue. For human being, he (she) has even more charm. But the form of this kind of dream must have a kind of self-sketched ability, and not something that goes by the book. This dissertation/thesis is a bowl of “hui guo rou” [a Chinese dish of recooked pork].
What a lamentable person! What reasons caused this outcome? This is a problem worth pondering by every Chinese person!
I neither support or am against your thinking. Everyone has the right to choose their own life, just like those in the red-light districts working the night shifts. They themselves are very happy, they do not have to do anything, yet they can get anything. From their perspective, I can understand them. After all, there are people in this world who have self-respect and self-love, and those who wallow in degeneration, and can sell their dignity and soul to chase material comforts, people who live life one day at a time.
Everyone has their way to find happiness, it does not need to be the same.
But I still want to ask you, do you believe in lifelong love? Although I have not found it, I believe in it!
Comments from 6park:
Continue your daydreaming! A foreigner would not give money to you!
He thinks it’s his money. If you want to spend money, earn your own! Haha…
Don’t get upset. Put her abroad for five years, and then let her see whether foreign men or Chinese men are good. She still has this good image about abroad like from the early 90s.
Obviously, this woman has never seen real foreign men.
Support! That’s a girl with a strong character.
Foreign men also drink, gamble and go to prostitutes. Them having money doesn’t mean that you can spend it.
Trash woman.
See more views on love and marriage by Chinese women and netizens:
- ‘I Like Being A Kept Mistress, My Life Right Now Is Great!’
- Pretty Shanghai Girl Seeking Husband for Marriage
- Pretty 1985 Shanghai Girl Wants Double-Eyelid Man
- Women Are To Be Played, Not To Be Loved
- Sister Says Family Poor, Cannot Find Boyfriend, Leaves
Images: These images are not of the author. I am not sure if the author added the pictures to her original post or if other netizens added them when they reposted her essay. Some of the pictures were stupid so I did not include them here but I include two. One is extra – Fauna.
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Japanese & Chinese Students Fight In Shanghai 
“Zhejiang University Girl” Exposed By Human Flesh Search 
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College Schoolgirl: 3 Years, 5 Abortions 
Pretty 1985 Shanghai Girl Wants Double-Eyelid Man
Why are there always some girls who make Chinese girls lose face. Although I feel angry and a bit sad after reading this long article, there is nothing I can do to prevent such a bad trend in China.
This chick knows nothing about “western men”.
But, if she likes KFC(junk) that much, USA should be a good place to go.
Good luck to her western dream!
you have no idea what you are talking about. America is not all KFC fast food. We have cuisine from all over the world, and real western food, not junk food, is far more healthier than chinese food smothered in oil and msg–heart disease waiting to happen.
But I think we are all missing the point. She is chinese so she certainly likes Chinsese food. And what she is saying is not very different from every woman in the world. It sounds pretty greasy and vulgar to give sombody your business card–asking for a date or a assignation–that is 100% sleazy, low-class, and will most certainly turn-off any girl. these men treat her like a whore. And she is just a kid, a child. NO doub these me are in their forties. That disgusts me. It probably disgusts her too. I’ve see fit chinese men. I’m sure some of them have a brain, but it is lonely when you are a smart thinking person. MOst people are common. So even she goes west she will meet non-thinking me, but probably less. But the point is–her complaints about China signal what needs to be done. Nobody in their right mind wants to live in dirt and pollution. Do you? Clean it up–Now, don’t just talk about. Be considerate of others, esp. the people you are with, and the girls you see. be genuine–dont hand out business cards and treat every women like a whore. Use manners. I can totally sympathize with her on this–I hate traveling in China–every body pushing and shoving to get things–me, me, me, me–soooo selfish and greedy. Everybody says not my business! But it is–can’t you see–it is! We are a community. This kind of behavior is a blatant disrespect of other human beings and the community, and yourself. She should not be seen as a ‘turncoat’, but as a signpost–BEWARE–wake-up–and you should be saying this is what we need to do to improve our society, not to be like the west, but for our own health and humanity. Respect. I find most chinese men disgusting too, coughing up throaty mucus and spitting it at my feet or on the floor of a public bulding or even a restaraunt where people eat–thats unhealthy, wretched. But i find many chinese woman equally offensive–belching, huge yawns, picking thier nose in public, sweaty greasy arm-pit hair, enormous body odor, decaying black and yellow teeth. its nasty! Obviously, this is not all chinses women, but many. And many more are the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen. But there are a lot of women in China.
I think China needs a lesson in Hygiene 101, and manners. maaners exist becuase we all have to live together in close quarters, so we should respect each other, and be considerate. manners ar enot pretentioous. They are respectful and show that you do not think you are the only person who matters.
Any sane girl will want to live in a community that cares for and respects each other, not one that is so selfish it litters the street like a dump. No sane person wants to live thier own trash and shit. Animals do that.
BUt i said it before, i’ll say it again–she too is a selfish materialistic girl and reflects everything she does not like. She is a hypocrite.
This is also a peronal ad and should be removed from the forum. its a gimmmick.
thinly veiled social critique, but it does have some very valid points about contemporary life in China; what she dislikes about Chinese men seems to be centered on their materialism and me-only selfishness/lack of social etiquette, yet she is guilty of materialism herself. This toadying attitude toward the West was probably more prevalent in the 1990’s, but today, I think the myth and illusion has largely worn off…
I totally agree with her. There’s nothing wrong to chase the American Dream of KFC and the men inside.
“In summary, I simply want to marry a Westerner, at best an American, but European is not bad either.”
lol, better get an European man, no Americans.
hahaha, she dislikes the materialistic views of the Chinese men? Then why go for an American one!
That is a F@#%ing retarded stereotype. You think Americans are materialistic, more so than anybody else? You show your ignorance. Americans are the most generous peopl ein the world. When was last time you did something for your community, or donated to charity–the earthquake not included–or helped out a homeless guy. Probably never, because you say its not your business, or you blame the victim. Or you use the excuse that ‘i’m poor…so what can I give?’ Studies show that poor people in America give more to other poor people than millionaires or middle class yuppies (by % relative to income) and its common. Go to America and you will see millions f charity organizations that work. Go online and you will find countless non-governmental organizations–non-profits working to make a better world and feed the poor, the homeless, or nurture children, etc. You have almost none of that in Chna, because dont care about each other. Your biggest value is loyalty. Yeah, well so is it any gang, or mob, or mafia, or fascist dictator.
You have o idea what you are talking about, so just shut up and grow up! learn to respect/value people–not just your family. i don’t believ in God, but one of my favorite figures of speech goes like this: GOd gave us friends to apologize for family.
Americans are actually far less materialistic than Chinese, and Europeans. I lived extensively in all these places. Americans are reflected badly in the media–rhe government is often an evil vistagoth–but the people will give you the shirt off their back if they thought you needed it. Can’t say that for China.
In China you care about family–period–and sometimes thats a lie. In the west we care about community. So its seems communism was a lie too. Actually there is more communism in ‘meterialistic’ America, though they don’t realize it. What I mean by ‘commune-ism’ is commun-ity.
I love KFC!!!!
Oh, hoho, I am turning in my grave.
To please my queen, I claim to change my nickname from USTCer to KFCer from now on. All queen haters shut up and reflect.
This sort of a girl is not worth getting angry over. She brags about herself, has an image of the West that comes from TV and movies (and thus does not reflect real life here) and the things she says she values are so shallow and empty that she herself must be such a person. There are millions and millions of fat, awkward, lonely western men (living in their mother’s basements) who would love to meet her I am sure. They would be perfect for her.
As a side note… what is with the focus on money??!! Westerners are rich and poor, greedy and generous, stupid and smart, evil and good. There are westerners like this girl (people who care about brands and labels and bank accounts and status) and many that are the opposite. When I am in China, sure, things (aside from luxury items) generally cost less than they do in the U.S. so I spend more freely than normal. Also, it is like vacation so I am inclined to spend even more… perhaps this is why people talk about foreigners having so much money? I find this focus on famous brands, houses, cars, etc. to be rather disgusting. Oh well, it is good that one can choose with whom one associates, eh? I avoid this sort of person at all costs… no matter how beautiful she may be, on the inside she is empty and blank.
Yes, this is interesting. In China, there are many more men then women, but in the big cities like Beijing and Shanghai, good men are at a great shortage. I am a Chinese male and I have seen this trend with displeasure but curbed my uproar in search of reason. Rage will do nothing; reason can solve a problem. The problem is that too many Chinese men would see this and be angry and hate her and that would be all that they do. But they must listen to what she says. She did not say that she does not like Chinese men because they are Chinese; she says that it is because they act discourteously and neglect exercise. I have seen this. Females by nature will be attracted to the best male, with the best physique, the most intelligent, earning the most money, and exhibiting the most class. This is regardless of race. The solution is here. The solution is to step past your rage and work to relinquish the problem. We must act courteously, open doors for ladies, use “excuse me”, “sorry” and “thank you”. We must wear nice clothes and keep clean. In our acedemic persuits, we must not neglect to exercise and keep a well-built body. We will act with more class as we become richer. This is the solution. China is walking in that direction with our rising economy and rising global influence. We must not act like a bunch of low-rank brigands who spit and curse. We must lead the world by being professional and civil. We are on that track and this disgrace will be rectified.
Absolutely true, If you studied US history, you will know that the British thought those americans were uncivilized brutes. China is going thru the same thing, as the country developes, so will its people.
If you talk to most English people, like myself, we still think they are uncivilised brutes.
i agree. But China is the most maaterialistic place on earth. it is almost everything they care about–money. Everything they say about America is true about themselves. And if they say anything its usually the opossite–from relationships to international politics. Even as they claim they are not an interventionalist nation they build aircraft carriers and a strong air-force to ‘protect’ increaqsing intersts abroad–in Africa, South America, etc. as they suck up oil like pigs. As they emerge on the international scene they will need to ‘intervenne’ and ‘interfere’ to protect their economic interests. All greedy capitalists do. Aircraft carriers serve one purpose–invasion. NOt defense.
I should make some money off this. She is official mail-order goods now. All rednecks or hillbillies are welcome to bid. Especially those from Kentucky are the best buyers. LOL.
Everyone must have dreams, that’s the difference between the Mao period and China of today. People who have dreams and hopes are happier. She sounds like a young woman feeling lost as she faces some life changing decisions upon her graduation. That is called life’s stages, from total dependence, to self-reliance and expressions, to marriage and responsibilities with ones’ own familiy, to old age. So, good for her for asking herself some questions – what does she want and where does she go from here.
Her piece had actually contained serveral parts. She dreams of material success. She dreams of living in a pollution free and green environment. She dreams of a genteel society where people are more civilized and polite to each other. She dreams of romance and love in marriage.
As for materialistic life appears glamourous with many pitfalls. To have financial success is to have to work long hours with little time for self-enrichment and family, to be under stress constantly. There is always another new and improved status item to want and more debt to pay. As long as basic necessity is met and have enough savings for retirement and children’s education, a modest goal is more realistic that brings contentment. This puruit of material well being has no ending if one is to go along with the commercial propaganda.
Pollution – everyone in China would share this desire without debate. There should be no trash thrown about, industries should be fined for pollution. Government should starting enforcing and caping pollution.
Politeness and neighborliness – Chinese certainly can improve on this score in comparison to other people in the world. Look to Switzerland for its cleanliness, Japanese for her civil society, Americans for her friendliness, etc. Pushing and shoving and loudness is not tolerated in most societies except China.
Quality of men, all women desire soft considerate romantic men with empathy. Those moneyed Chinese men can learn to lower their arrogance a bit, be humble, be helpful and listen with care. Dress cleanly but not necessarily expensively. Speak of music, art and poetry. What this University graduate said is true in many ways about the newly minted men. As for her desire to marry foreigners, it carries a different set of problems because of cultural gap. It would take extra patience, insight and communication to overcome cultural misunderstandings that affects a relationship when the physical attraction wears out.
There is a saying in English, “The grass is always greener over the fence.” I would advise this girl to be patient, to continue her education to a higher level, trust and depend on herself above all for survival. When she has many skills, her dreams will be rewarded some how because she has many more options from which to choose. Her concern about her parents becoming a burden to her will take time for her to embrace. Youth fades quickly and when she is in her middle age, she will mature and understand her duties and obligations.
Chinese netizens, don’t be the first one to throw stones when you live in a glass house. What she wrote is a common secret desire for many Chinese. She just articulated them for you.
You go girl!
Welcome to America – freedom of speech and KFC…
Here you can be anything… including single if you want…
I admire the fact she’s saying what many people won’t say about materialism in life. It’s a brutally honest reflection on society, nevertheless I think she needs to adopt a more pragmatic attitude if she’s going to find a man.
XD She should try her luck in West Virginia.
I think this site could use a forum so we can post messages properly and userIDs won’t get ripped off like Rick’s…
Very heartfelt lamentation from this young female. Unfortunately, that if it is heartfelt and not a hoax created to stir up a backlash against intercultural relationships…IT IS ALSO VERY SAD.
All I see, as a westerner (albeit a dark one…haa) …is a very easy target. Show a bit of cash… some wild ‘new’ ideas, and bam! Sleep with her.
Newsflash to this girl. Western guys aren’t stupid either… they see your weakness and will exploit it to the same degree that you would exploit them for their greencard, social constructs etc.
I am totally disgusted and amazed by the amount of open racism and latent self-loathing that permeates her every sentence.
Freud would have a field day with this bitch.
what’s up with chinese girls and the western addiction, hell myself have a china addiction, came from shanghai… now gotten bored with the states and wants to go back to the mother land. But girls with this type of mentality is just too damn common in shanghai, married off to a westerner get out of the country earn a US or any other western citizenship; divorce. then find another rich man too live off of. Sad … just Sad.
Here are some high class Western men very suitable for her.
http://www.rightblueeye.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/HillbillyTeeth.jpg
http://hoox.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/hillbilly.jpg
Honey, these guys will make your dream come true.
that video clip is probably illegal to possess in the U.S.(child pornography laws, etc), but not sure about China, I know people get fined, but that seems to be arbitrary enforcement…
This sentiment (and fallacy) is become more and more common… within the subconscious of the chinese lady sits a dream of western sex and riches… which often results in disappointment and divorce. Wake up and live… from a western man.
This is a very beautiful young lady indeed however she seems to live in a TV/Movie world. I think that she needs to mature some more before thinking about some of the things that she writes about. No doubt in my mind that she can indeed find a rich American man as beautiful as she is but how will it end in happiness or divorce? She does need to mature some.
By the way I am an American man and though not rich rich I do have money but would not consider such a lady for marriage until she matures some. My money will only increase in quantity and value her looks are probably at it’s peak right now and will only go downhill from here.
If she is so great, then perhaps she should get to the Western world on her own merits rather than whoreing herself to some sad horny old yellow-fevered-up loser who happens to have opened a door for her. This girl is such a snob and should show more respect towards her own culture and race.
It’s actually quite sad that she truly believes all Westerners live like the Desperate Housewives. It’s like Westerners believing that all Chinese are scholarly, live in giant houses with courtyards, all elaborately dressed, can fly and can kick arse.
How can someone supposed to be intelligent be so deluded? Some basic education should have taught her that although wages in Western countries are higher on paper, the cost of living is also proportionally higher. The average McDonald’s worker won’t be able to get a mortgage for a house with a big lounge, bathtub for two plus a car on their wages.
Also, I think she’s ripe pickings for any Westerners fancying a bit of a dalliance. Perhaps being used and discarded enough times will wake her up to the reality that Western men aren’t the gentlemen on her pedestal. I think Western relationships don’t expect a great deal of commitment at the start, and her sniffing for marriage will be enough to scare most away, not to mention her blatant gold-digging.
One of the things I hate most about the Chinese today, which they seem to have caught from the West, is the rampant consumerism of which she seems to have been caught by, hook line & sinker. She is the ice salesman’s eskimo. It’s sad that people waste so much time and effort, and make themselves miserable by wanting so much useless sh!t.
I am willing to take her as wife and bring her to the USA. But, that back door will be mine, and I will utilize it heavily every single day.
Did she leave contact information?
Lets re post this on some expat websites and make it happen!
She probably doesn’t realize there is a financial crisis in the U.S., the western man who takes her may likely default on the house mortgage and also credit card debt, she will then have to work at KFC…I think it will be actually educational for her to come to the U.S. to shatter the illusions she and others hold.
This was funny. Really liked this line: “isn’t the monthly salary for washing dishes at McDonald’s over a thousand USD? This can still allow him to buy a car and house.” Absolutely hilarious. Sadly, I’ve met plenty of people in China who are amazed at the minimum wage in the US. They just don’t realize that minimum wage is poverty level.
Minimal wage in the US is still considerable from a Chinese POV, they just don’t realize the standard of living is very different in the US.
“washing dishes at McDonald’s over a thousand USD?“
Since when were there any dishes in McDonalds?
Well, for a Chinese, it’s not a bad piece of writing and she has some certain ability to think outside of the box – which is nice to see, but she certainly thinks highly of herself – it’s almost off putting. She’ll grow up one day and realize things aren’t quite so black and white…
@SniperWZ
She’s a university student. She doesn’t know who she herself is yet – let alone what’s important in life – let alone how used up and loose she’ll be by the time her materialism-based search for “marrying an American” is in full swing :)
Then she’ll reconsider, and realize men are men – everywhere – and she’ll have to change her attitude significantly before finding a man of any race who is of any quality and finds her interesting.
@Chinamatt -> Wow I missed that line about McDonald’s… that is amazing, I wonder if many other Chinese are THAT far off on what things cost in the U.S.
On even 4 times that amount you would struggle to have much. I suppose the hugely different taxes are unknown in China. Here is a breakdown for any Chinese wondering:
Income Tax: 25% of everything I earn.
State Tax: 5% of everything I earn.
Local Tax: 2% of everything I earn.
Sales Tax: 6.75% of everything I buy.
Social Security: 7% of everything I earn.
Property: I pay $4,000 a year. It ranges from about $2,000 to over $10,000. Utility fees: about $500 a month.
Health Insurance: $550 a month (plus extra for doctor visits).
Car Insurance: $700 per year.
There are MANY more taxes, fees and expenses that come with living in the U.S. so a McDonald’s employee earning $1,000 a month would be about as well off as a homeless migrant worker in construction site housing.
This is a great example of someone who labels everyone, that is except for herself. Her use of over generalization is astounding and displays a completely black and white picture on both sides (West and East). Ironically she did not label her self (ahem gold digger and egotistical). This girl is completely lost by the notion of ‘greener pastures’ and her fallacy with the help of Hollywood gives her no personal substance. This girl thinks she’s ‘deep’ but in fact she only licking the earth or in this case the Western world.
May the backhand of reality slapeth some sense into this girl.
@Chinamatt, maybe back in the heyday of the credit bubble, a person making $1K can get a sub-prime mortgage with 0% down and a car loan also with 0 down, not anymore…the house would now be forclosed and high gas prices would have grounded that car anyway by now…
My first reaction is…what an idiot. She disses her own people due to a fantasy that a Western man can provide her dream. What is her value? She wants to sit in her parlor like living room and wile away the day chatting with friends? She has just been labelled as the atypical negative stereotype of a Chinese gold-digging girl.
Her education seems to be a joke. No morals, no humility, no IQ. Maybe she can catch some English teachers fancy at a KTV lounge…
a western man
I am a Singaporean of Chinese descent who have travelled to the West as well as to China and other parts of Asia. I speak both Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese, and some Fujianese) as well as English.
I think the writer’s view and conception of the West is totally flawed. If the folks in the movie business in China were to shoot their scenes in the hundreds and hundreds of scenic spots in China, it will project China as a clean and green place, just like those scenes she saw on American movies. Her misguided thinking is a result of her not having been to the West, and seen what Hollywood or even the Hong Kong movie directors will not show. (Go to Hong Kong and see for yourself that it is not what you see in Hong Kong dramas…ditto for USA)
It is also not true that western men are more cultivated or independent. They also visit prostitutes and many of them who come to China to work are doing precisely that..but they also visit prostitutes in their own countries, eh?
It is really sad to see that there are many more Chinese girls who think like the writer, and who throw themselves into these men. After a few years, these men leave for home (and by the way, many of them have wives and children back home) and the poor Chinese girls are simply left behind.
I have myself met many good Chinese men. It may be true their difficult past have brought forward some undesirable attirbutes, but these will take time to change.
Incidentally, being conversant in both languages (and culture), my opinion is that the Chinese language is more beautiful, and it is sad to see that the writer, coming from a good Chinese university, cannot appreciate what a rich culture China has, choosing instead to worship almost everything western.
I am a Singaporean of Chinese descent who have travelled to the West as well as to China and other parts of Asia. I speak both Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese, and some Fujianese) as well as English.
I think the writer’s view and conception of the West is totally flawed. If the folks in the movie business in China were to shoot their scenes in the hundreds and hundreds of scenic spots in China, it will project China as a clean and green place, just like those scenes she saw on American movies. Her misguided thinking is a result of her not having been to the West, and seen what Hollywood or even the Hong Kong movie directors will not show. (Go to Hong Kong and see for yourself that it is not what you see in Hong Kong dramas…ditto for USA)
It is also not true that western men are more cultivated or independent. They also visit prostitutes and many of them who come to China to work are doing precisely that..but they also visit prostitutes in their own countries, eh?
It is really sad to see that there are many more Chinese girls who think like the writer, and who throw themselves into these men. After a few years, these men leave for home (and by the way, many of them have wives and children back home) and the poor Chinese girls are simply left behind.
I have myself met many good Chinese men. It may be true their difficult past have brought forward some undesirable attributes, but these will take time to change.
Incidentally, being conversant in both languages (and culture), my opinion is that the Chinese language is more beautiful, and it is sad to see that the writer, coming from a good Chinese university, cannot appreciate what a rich culture China has, choosing instead to worship almost everything western.
My friend’s wife (Chinese) divorced her first husband (a Chinese guy. He was always running off to gamble and sometimes didn’t come home for days) and married a white American, moved to America and, after 10 years and 2 great kids, they are the happiest couple I know. They are not rich and they live in the countryside. You can find good partners and bad partners anywhere… no one culture is superior or inferior. You just have to find someone you connect with.
PS: It is MY opinion that the Chinese language is more beautiful than English….and I repeat here that China has a rich culture. Readers are free to disagree with my opinion, and to think that Western or African or Indian or whatever…languages/cultures are superior/inferior.
That said, I do not dispute the possibility that there are happy marriages between foreign nationals and Chinese…nowhere in what I wrote suggested that these are not possible. However, let’s bear in mind how many Chinese women have been cheated as a result of their misguided beliefs in everything western…and let’s not be defensive about that but face the reality squarely, okie?
Please read again what I have written which is in the context of what the writer of this article had written.
Chinese is more a form of communication than a true language. I love China, and Chinese people, but the language? bleah.
I agree with the view that this girl is somewhat naive about Western guys (and I am one). And she does seem very shallow. She does raise two valid points. One, her reference to not being able to sunbathe without a bunch of dung farmers staring is true.- I’ve accepted that China is not Italy or Brazil, but nevertheless I look forward to the day when Chinese popular society becomes better at just letting other enjoy themselves. She’s right- ordinary life in China is rarely pleasant in the private, self-indulgent way (without a lot of money) that one finds in the West. Second, yes, Western guys can be just as bad as other guys, but Chinese guys, for the most part need to get a clue. I’ve lived in China for 3 years, and I hate to say it, but Chinese guys need a lot of work. I blame an adolescence that’s 100% studying- no sports, no work, etc. they seem almost entirely to be either extremely socially awkward around women or excessively chauvinistic and ignorant. I’m sorry, but there’s no other way to put it. The nice ones are awkward and the rest are just- well, if you’ve lived there, you know. (Nevermind the rich “little emperors” who are the worst- it’s ridiculous being macho and assertive when you’re 5′4″ and have arms the size of a gear shift. Sweet and nice, if you’re that guy, is your only bet. Leave the swaggering machismo to African and Latino guys) I have hope that this will change one day.
Whoa, the vitriol on this young lady. I have lived long enough to understand life stages and changing perspectives. She is dreamy being 22. Some of her complaints about China are valid but her idealistic West is not. She has the courage to reveal herself completely, her dreams, her fears and her uncertainty, being 22. Don’t we all go through our youths feeling lost at one point or another?
Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side. But, pollution and unhygenic conditons in China is head spinning and stomach turning. Who would want to live in such environment? The lack of civility in public in China makes life so much harder than it already is. Why can’t Chinese stop spitting, public deficating and urinating, trashing public places, shoving and pushing, loudness in speech. Chinese men can learn to be more intuned to women’s desires: improve your grooming and wear clean clothes. (Opening doors and pulling out chairs for women is not part of Chinese etiquette for men, don’t try because the men would end up looking awkward.) Find an interesting conversation on movie, books, art, music to share. Show your confidence and have a sense of humor. But, don’t brag about your achievement or your money.
Given that everyone knows poverty intimately in China up till now, I do not blame Chinese for being materialistic at the moment. But, what is important to remember what really counts in life is not about more, if one were to find happinese, . It is not about bigger house, fancier cars and vacation, more this or that. It is about who we are in the human net work, to love and care for each other, to listen and empathize, to be honest in every encounter. Happiness and contentment is inevitable.
I am writing as a Chinese American married to a White man for 20 odd years. We find our differences a challenge as well as enriching. It takes a lot of patience and empathy to overcome misunderstandings. We live a modest but rich life in America. Money is utility for basic needs. Happiness is not about how much we have, but how much we discover.
This is the case of wanting something not within our reach. I hope she has Chinese friends (both male and female) who’ll just support her in her dreams.
IMHO,
this only shows how very easily chinese are still riled up and trolled.
all you need to do is diss them a little bit, and everyone throws a hissy fit about it.
china = world’s greatest lolcow
If only I wasn’t already married to another smart, capable, beautiful Chinese girl, I’d at least give this one a good rogering!
I recognise this type of girl from my university classes. Somebody above talked about Chinese boys needing to have more of a life during their teenage years – I agre 100% with that. But this girl also needed to have more of a life during her teenage years.
She is very idealistic, which is a great thing, but she is going to end up sorely disappointed when she fails to meet one of the 5% of guys who actually meets her ideal.
The Chinese education system has a lot of blame to take for this, for not helping Chinese kids think critically and and a self-aware fashion.
Seems rather quiet here. Someone, whose manner of speaking sounded rather condescending and snobbish, mentioned Italy, but not USA, now that it has been proven that the system which they have been preaching sucks.
Well, I certainly hope China will not imitate Italy, a great country without an international air carrier. Alitalia is flying like it is made of paper. If you have been to South Italy, you will see how ‘civilised’ the people there are. That writer said that Chinese men need a clue, but forgot to offer his advice to the western or rather Mediteranean men in Napoli where at least one person gets killed everyday. And just look at the tons of rubbish there.
In fact, Italy should get a place in the Guiness Book for having changed more than 50 prime ministers since the end of World War 2. Ever wondered how many countries care to have any foreign policy with Italy?
So friends, go on and swim …maybe the Italian farmers won’t ogle at you, if you care to believe. By the way, I know of a great number of Italians visiting prostitutes in Shanghai and elsewhere in China, who would boast of their trysts the next day.
Having been around from Rome to Firenze, Milano, Ancona, Como, Brindisi, Lecce…I have seen Italians who are just as shy in front of the opposite sex, and that’s speaking from first hand observation. So, let’s not take a cheap swipe at Chinese men.
Really really sad to see this young girl having such a jaundiced view of the WEST. Even more disgusting is when some western men come to China and think they are better than the local men before looking at themselves in the mirror.
Eric, China is a wonderful country and the people are great as well but why do you have to denigrate others to make your points?
Eric Wong, you are on the money!
Yes Gaoshan, he does. Why build yourself up when you can tear others down?Haaaa…
Well Eric, it seems you have a jaundiced view of Italy.
Its like saying all germans are bad because of the Nazis, cmon guys grow up.
This is just a post by a young naive girl who just needs to grow up a bit.
A few more years and some life experience will put her mind at a good balance.
We were all the same at that age and its not a bad thing to sort out your thoughts and attitudes, and often writing them and reading comments helps.
Im a scotsman working as a foreign teacher in the south of china, i love it here, the people the culture, my mates. Life is good.
You stupid F*cks!
You bitch at her for saying bad things about Chinese men and then you turn around and say bad things about ‘western’ men and society. Grow up!
Do you at all see the hypocrisy? I think not, you just can’t do it. You don’t want to do it. You hate it when other see it in your actions and words and you hate it when you know they see it.
Eric Wong says,”Incidentally, being conversant in both languages (and culture), my opinion is that the Chinese language is more beautiful, and it is sad to see that the writer, coming from a good Chinese university, cannot appreciate what a rich culture China has, choosing instead to worship almost everything western.”
Ohhhhhhh! Wow!!! That is more ridiculous than anything the girl wrote. Like the girl will say “I choose a Chinese man because of the 5000 year glorious, harmonious Chinese history and it’s language.”
Forget about her and move on.
Haven’t you heard people say that Italy is the ‘China’ of Europe? :)
Dave, like I said to Eric… why do you have to denigrate others to make your points?
I’m not sure that helps… but here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CqbZNHaf1o
hehe. I am enjoying it very much.
Gaoshan: It is not my intention to denigrate anyone or even a whole race of people, but since Italy was being mentioned
Quote “I’ve accepted that China is not Italy…” Unquote
hence, I just want to put things in perpective. The freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to swim without Chinese farmers olging are not necessarily suitable for all of Earth, as preached by that great nation with the Statue of Liberty with one hand raised in the direction facing China, saying hello to it…hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Green Turd: I will appreciate it if you can be a little more correct with your punctuation, since you claim to be teaching. Good to hear that you love your life in China.
TuquefB: Your post, in song, music and dance, is by far the best.
The rest of you: Not worth my time replying…
Okie, folks…good luck.
Dave, you jumped when some facts about western men were pointed out by me. Your use of vulgar language here is absolutely disgusting…so much for the so-called civilised behaviour of western men, who open doors for others.
Your saying that Italy is the China of Europe suggests that the rest of Europe is superior to China. Maybe you should say that Europe is the countryside of China.
Mind you, there are lots of Chinese who have been to western countries who can tell the folks here how their backyards look like, eh? Tell me where you come from, and let me tell everyone something about your backyard vis-a-vis China, if you dare. hahahahahaaaaa
Eric Wong go back to your mom’s basement troll. People are entitled to feel how they wish. My wife is Chinese and her and her family both prefer me to Chinese men, because I am civilized. I don’t chew with my mouth open, I don’t spit, I don’t treat women like objects. Some Chinese men are great but most of you, have no idea how to be a gentleman. FACT.
Scotland and bagpipes, where doest thou hail from?
There’s a 600 million Chinese men and she cannot find suitable one!
We all want better life, and we all want to get it on easy way. It is natural.
She talks about clean streets and air. In USA? LA, SF, NY,… Not so sure. I found Beijing to be cleaner than most of European cities (I spent just few days in SH, so I cannot say how clean is). To much western TV shows, definitely.
She would like saloon to talk with the friends, but forgets that she will not have friends in foreign country. Then, she cannot just talk with friends.She must to work. Maybe very hard, as 1000$ isn’t enough.
I wish her all the best in her life, but personal luck and happiness is something what we build not what we get.
Eric, if it isn’t your intention then do not do it. You won’t be able to raise the level of discussion until you can learn to be more fair in your thinking.
cry me a river!
Gaoshan …since when did you take it upon yourself to be fit to lecture me? Go and wash your face first before you are even fit to address me. You think you are a great intellectual of sorts, and you can raise the level of discussion?
Tell me in what way was I not being fair? Have you been to Italy? If you have, then you are certainly not fair enough to admit to what I rightly pointed out, to be fair to China.
Granted that this site has a lot of ‘civilised’ westerners visiting, I am game for any counter attack….but please don’t do it anonymously, hiding behind there. Tell me where you come from and let me tell everyone here something about your backyard, mate.
You are revealing yourself to be a less vulgar version of the “dave” commenter. I don’t think there is any point continuing a discussion with you given this.
Ha…you’re saying Dave is vulgar? That’s interesting. But I can pack a punch, and a heavy one at that to punch the wind out of you, without using vulgar words…eh?
…and for those listening in who might be interested, please read, if you will, my various rejoinders which were meant to put things in perspective, to be fair to China. I do not blame the young girl who has not seen the western world. What little she knows, she got it from Hollywood films. I could understand those angry comments coming in from presumably Chinese people. But what irritates me was when some people whom I presume are not Chinese tried to insult China and its people by comparing it with other countries. In that case, the only thing which is fair is to let everyone know something about their backyards….Italy, Los Angeles…even New York, London and of course, Scotland.
I’m with you on this Eric. I’m from India and having lived in China too i have seen a lot of asian bashing happening these days as if its something fashionable for these people to go on about.
We shall all cherish the freedom to pursue true love and eternal happiness. My advice, however, is that statistically she is better off to find an excellent but not yet rich chinese man and then they can build a successful future together in order to be able to settle down anywhere in the world they desire to.
Given her superficial knowledge about western men and western society and culture, it would be some major or even monumental task for her to find true love among western men.
Happiness is not free, and lasting love requires strong bond.
Eric you are not putting anything in “perspective”. And why do you think you need too?
I’m sure this girl would kill for all those handbags being thrown around by you ‘boys’.
The original article is a fake right?
It has never been written by a Chinese woman really interested by Westerners.
It is so much a regular cliché about differences between western and Chinese men…
If I was working for government and had the goal of flushing some oil on the Chinese nationalism fire, I would have wrote exactly this kind of article.
The author of this article actually obviously despises foreigners.
Boohoo
Eric is probably a monkey mainlander conscripted by the govt to spread the communist rhetoric throughout this thread. He tries to bate us into arguing with him so that he can get his Oxford English “idioms” worked into sentences to denigrate the “western” posters.
When he is not outside “reciting” words in public he is eating hot pot with his buddies picking his nose and talking about how great China’s 5,000 year history is (with one pant leg pulled up and clear socks).
Maybe he was in Milan with the other monkeys pulling out Chinese flags and assaulting Italians until he got his head cracked by some Milanese police who not so politely reminded him that despite he and the other thousand law breaking Chi Mates waving red flags, that this was still Italy.
Its not wonder this chick likes us better, and for good reason. Even the fattest ignorant red neck is eons above a Chimatron in terms of class.
Here’s a stupid question. If she moves to America, how is she going to sit in her salon and talk to her friends all day? Won’t they be in China? American women work
I think 马俊豪 is right on the money here. Even if a girl was so naive and misguided about the west, would she really feel the need to say so many bad things about her countrymen on the net?
Got to be a troll.
hahahahaaaaaa. I am enjoying it very much. Here’s another ‘civilised’ clown from the west, an idiot to wit, praising my impeccable Oxford English idioms. Readers, please note that his cowardly name is fcuk da lu ren, which means fcuk Chinese mainlanders. So, see for yourself how ‘civilised’ some westerners can be. Opening doors for others? This is what I call hypocrisy, a label which was surprisingly earlier foisted on such a good guy like me. Oh my good lord!
As expected, he did not dare to reveal from where he cometh. Anyway, this kind of cowardice is not unusual. I once had an encounter with one of these western ‘gentleman’ in MAINLAND. You nah, that fella was shivering in his pants in front of me. Face to face with me, he probably wished that his mother was around. Oh yeah, he was a head taller than me and had arms longer than a gear, hanging limply like monkey’s arms.
I respect Vikram’s courage to at least identify where he comes from.
Hear! Hear! You westerners will pay a high price for your arrogance with the rise of India and China. I have already seen not a few western men working for Chinese….and for me. Sad to say, they didn’t seem quite as fluent in English inside the meeting room. What a shame!
I wonder why fcuk da lu ren is in MAINLAND? Maybe he knows that he is a nobody back home. There is, amongst others, an exit point at Pudong, for him to get out and lost. He can always return to his ‘civilised’ country, to sunbath in the nude, in the knowledge that no one will look at him (he’s after all only a road-sweeping commoner over there, and in China anyway), to enjoy his Hollywood dream home (Note: DREAM), and have some trysts with western prostitutes (lots of them there) with his socks concealed, of course. God has no place in western societies. 哎！ 太可惜，真地太可惜！
This conversation has gone off the rails. Being “civilized” has nothing to do with what happened in 2,000 years ago in Greece, India, or China. I doubt most people from any country really have much in common with their cultural ancestors anyway, or knowledge for that matter. How many Westerners can really discuss the Peloponessian War or Chinese, the 8th century battle of Talas with Persia that may have led to the spread of paper? Few, but not many.
And who rates the opposite sex on that stuff anyway? Her point is valid. For whatever reason, mainland Chinese men, on average, seem to be less romantically suave(although they can be decent, kind husbands/boyfriends) or seductive than Western men. Until very recently the West put a greater emphasis on individual vanity, etc. It’s just more emphasized there. That’s probably changing now for the next generation in China. And I can admit, as a white American, that other cultures beat us on this. Yes, Brazilian or Italian guys really are more “romantic” than us, partly bc of different values and priorities. I can accept that.
Bottom line, having a great, ancient civilization and a beautiful language is fine. but, in terms of women, there are some real differences b/w Chinese and Western men.
1) Western men are much more likely to intervene to help a stranger. Chilvary, while often absent in the West, seems totally dead in China. Bystanders can be callous everywhere, but how many times have you seen a woman being robbed (or beaten when driving a bus) and Chinese men just standing there? Much more often than American men would.
2) Hobbies- Chinese dudes, get out of the internet cafes. Go to the gym. Or something. Anything else. Women do not care about online games.
3) Act confident without being just arrogant. Really, there’s something indefinably nervous and awkward about A LOT of Chinese guys. Work on that. Try to copy Tony Leung or Chow Yun Fat. There is an innate type of coolness mixed with playfullness that Asian guys can have in theory.
4) Accept that Chinese women are changing. Don’t bitch about how city girls aren’t virgins at marriage, or don’t have traditional values, etc, etc. Get over it and change. For some reason, Chinese women seem to adapt to new forces much faster than men.
5) Manners- this is getting better, but spitting, picking your teeth, etc. I guess that’s fading away, but there’s still a lot of just bad public behavior. She’s right about KFC and public dignity.
That’s all I can think of. Point is, lashing out at Western society, prostitutes, or ancient Greece versus ancient China is pointless. the only goal here is to find out what women want and try to be that.
I wonder if western men will ride on their white horses to the rescue of a damsel in distress in Napoli (Naples), Los Angeles, New York, et al….hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Tried as I did to correct Western arrogance, I only receive even more. What do I have to say to someone who is so myopic and whose command of Oxford English is so poor that he cannot understand what has been written above.
Nothing.
By the way, I am not a Mainlander, certainly not conscripted…but I just cannot stand by and watch how arrogant and prejudiced SOME western men are. I am not saying that all western men are bad, though.
There was along the way some digression ….into benchmarking others, in particular Chinese, using Western principles of what is considered free, civilised and dignified. That was when I wrote to say my two cents worth. I have not for a moment lost the main theme of what that fictitious young woman want…a Hollywood style home bal bla bla….maybe some of you did, and went on squabble with me.
Expectedly, not a few western men such as the preceeding poster, became defensive, after the truth about their backyards was revealed for all to see.
You may pick your nose only inside your tiny toilets back home, but go and wash your face again and look at yourself in the mirror. You are not angels, mate. You think WE don’t know New York?
@ Eric Wong:
Dude, you started off quite reasonably but somehow death spiraled into a flaming monstrosity. One guy mentions Italy and Brazil in the context of “sunbathing” and you jump on him rattling off various points of Italian embarrassment (while insulting quite a few other countries in the process). Geez, man, why?
We all have our “fight-fire-with-fire” moments but you seemed to devolve into tit-for-tat ranting out of nowhere. I’m not even sure what Josh said was really condescending when he gave ample qualifiers that Westerners are far from perfect and quite calmly gave his thoughts on 1) Chinese society improving (with regards to people enjoying themselves like sunbathing) and 2) Chinese men in general may do well to go out and learn to be more assertive. But you dog-piled that and heaped insults on Italy with what seemed like minute provocation (not to mention the most tenuous of relevance to what Josh said).
It doesn’t take long for people to know fcuk da lu ren intentionally and shamelessly tries to get a rise out of other people with his comments, but, man, you started off so well. Now your comments are so full of vitrol you don’t seem much better than people like fcuk da lu ren, people who cannot seem to rise above their insecurities and feel compelled to sling hate to reassure themselves.
Your English definitely belies a healthy amount of Western education so I certainly hope you can calm down and 1) not play into the role of an insecure nationalistic fenqing (with better English), or 2) be the Chinese equivalent of ignorant, insecure, hate-mongering Westerners.
And again, I really don’t know what set you off on the whole initial Italy thing. I know I’m not the only person who thought you blew up out of nowhere.
@ Josh:
Just for the sake of conversation…
2. Ironically, Asian girls generally play online games far more than their Western counterparts. Some of it has to do with it being a cheap and convenient avenue of escapism. That said, while Chinese guys can do quite a bit of socializing with real girls online (where both parties feel less shy behind a monitor/keyboard), I agree that many should work on real-life social skills.
3. Yes, this is just a basic rule for all men, nay, all humanity in general. Just be confident in oneself. Everyone has insecurities, but part of the reason people are attracted to confident people is because we admire those who have the qualities we lack.
4. I think socio-economics play into why women may adapt to or be more willing to adapt to Western social dynamics. I feel bad for the guys and while they do have certain legitimate gripes, sitting around whining about it isn’t going to improve their situation just like whining about “hurt feelings” doesn’t garner much international sympathy for China whenever they play that card politically.
5. I think the manners issue is not so much about Western vs. Chinese but rather about socio-economic status. Poor people tend to exhibit more “uncouth” and “uncivilized” behaviors/habits than their better-off counterparts, both in China and in other countries. Within context of China’s modern history and general poverty, it is frustrating but a bit unfair to expect them to have the same manners and sensibilities as citizens of societies that have been “modernized” for far longer. I mentioned this in another comment elsewhere in this site but I think it bears repeating. We have to be careful of associating certain behaviors with race rather than poverty.
hahaha….maybe I am masochistic and enjoy the bashing.
Since Italy was mentioned, so I kind of wrote my version of what that fictitious Chinese girl wrote about China. I am sure a lot of us here suspect that it was written by a western man, no less.
The tit-for-that was really fun.
If you read what Josh wrote today, you can clearly see how he tries again to define China, and in the process, insult its people, using his own valoue systems. Bad Bad. So, I don’t think I need to reply to you, since he already had.
@ Eric Wong:
Wow, there are better people to pick on than Josh, better comments to tear apart than his, and far better ways to communicate than your’s.
It is clear you have no idea how disappointing you’ve become to those of us who thought you wrote reasonable and balanced initial comments. Now you’re coming off as a prick and the worst part is you choosing to embrace it in the most cocksure fashion possible. Whatever semblance of reason and respect you first garnered is now lost. That really sucks and there’s not much reason for me to try to continue imploring you to stay within the realm of rational discourse and mutual respect.
I know in your heart you feel “they” disrespected “you” first but, wow…I…I don’t know what to say really. For someone who has traveled so much and has had so much cross-cultural education, I expected better of you. You’re so dead-set on trying to make others see their own dirty laundry, you’re not pausing much to see how much of an ass you’re being and how similar you’ve become to them.
If I, as a Chinese person, had to choose to feel insulted, I’d feel more insulted by your flag-bearing for the Chinese than what Josh has said trying to suggest how Chinese men can get more ass.
Best of luck, mate.
“Had he known you were like this, your dad should have held back three seconds so he could ejaculate onto the wall instead, to save me from being pissed off today because of you, wasting my time to replying to this post.”
Haha…really, that is the funniest comment on this whole page.
She kind of implies that she would rather marry a dishwasher in McDonalds than a rich Chinese businessman. Surely this is a fabricated post? Really, who would bother posting this shit with some old snaps cadged off the internet? Come on! Pull yourselves together people!
Eric, I wasn’t trying to define China. I was talking about how Chinese men relate to women. There’s no good or bad about it- it’s just important if you care about the opinion of some Chinese women. I doubt the first Chinese guy to just spacewalk cares. and so what? he’s a badass who WALKED IN SPACE! To hell with what women think right? But… if you do care, then it’s a valid discussion. And you can scream about this all you want, but it is true that many women in the West and in China are not turned on by the average Chinese man. I’m sorry. It’s just true. I’m not making this up. But so what? If you’ve got the right stuff, doesn’t matter who you are. I’m sure a guy like Chow Yun Fat can have any woman he wants. Because as an individual he is a very sexy man.
More importantly, lighten up. Seriously. More Chinese need to learn to laugh at themselves. I can laugh at the image of clumsy white guys like me on the dance floor. Or our ridiculous U.S. president. I’m tired of any criticism of any aspect of China being taken by many Chinese people as a vicious attack on the entire country. I can sit around with Russians, Germans, Nigerians Brazilians, whoever and openly discuss our countries’ flaws, calmly like adults. But not with Chinese. It’s like talking to a teenage girl about her boyfriend- who’s perfect in every way, and if you don’t see it that’s because “you don’t understand.” China is not perfect. Westerners can be arrogant and ignorant when they criticize it. But not always. It’s a sign of national confidence, when people can laugh at themselves. I’m still proud of my country, but it’s not perfect. And neither is its culture. And neither is yours. or anybody else’s. No one thinks of great British cuisine, or orderly Italian traffic, or honest Russian government, or fast white sprinters. And, I’m sorry, women do not think of the Chinese as great lovers. That’s not an insult to the worth of the entire Chinese people. It’s just a stereotype. If a Chinese man knows he’s sexy, then good for him. But if thinks he’s not, getting mad at “arrogant Westerners” isn’t going to help.
also, Kai. yes I agree that my points were probably more about socio-economic status. What I’ve read of pre-1948 Shanghai revealed a suave, cultured kind of guy that got either thrown out or “re-educated” since then. I think spending 40 years elevating peasant/worker culture above all else didn’t help. This may sound harsh, but I think until very recently Communist China was a peasant culture, aside from a few elites. So, since that’s changing quickly, I’m sure the rest will catch up. Oh, and one other thing, the girl mentioned something about physical size. Same thing- to some extent, now, better diet, more exercise will change that too. So, no, I don’t think it’s permanent racial reality.
@Josh : clap clap clap : you’ve said it all.
Looking at the way some chinese people feel the urge to defend “Chinese people” is really making my point that this original post was written on the very point to lighten up nationalism among the masses…
Poor thing . She needs to get in touch with Reality.
@ Eric Wong
I’m with you on this 1
He’s pure white trash Probably the kind of guy you’re likely to meet @ wimdows too (Cheap drinks shithole).
yeah, reality will be when she gets kicked around, used, and thrown out by a Western guy who looks for girls like her. I hate seeing attractive Chinese girls with ugly or bad Westerners.
@Josh
I found that Chinese people (Beijing ones) likes to help people. They helped me many times. Mostly older people. Younger ones just care about themself.
Kai…first of all, I am not so sure if you are Chinese, as you claimed. That picture there proves nothing, eh?
I am glad you wrote “you’re not pausing much to see how much of an ass you’re being and how similar you’ve become to them. ” So these people are, after all, ASS. hehe. Okie, I shant be an ass anymore. Happy? Not need to implore me anymore, eh?
Truth be told, I can be very reasonable and maintain good balance in what I say. Writing about Italy was not an attack on Italy per se, but to remind some westerners to not preaching to others from on high. Unfortunately Italy was singled out and that’s because someone mentioned her. And unfortunately, we are dealing with abnormal psychology here. It is difficult to maintain a resaonable conversation with people who are insecure, have an inferiority complex back home, and who are bent on repeating anti-Chinese sentiments., while continuing to eat hot pots.
I repeat that I am not a Chinese citizen, nor am I a citizen of any country in the west. But when some western people who have been cultivated to use vulgar language (and you are not too far off there), I have no choice but to give it back to them as hard…not so much as in tit-for-tat…but to expose their hypocrisy. This is what I call maintaining a good balance in a very prejudiced barrage of vulgar comments.
Whatever it is, I have yet to use a single vulgar word, unlike others including you who tried to use it, albeit in an euphemistic and feeble manner.
马俊豪…I am not sure if you are right about the government wanting to inflame nationalistic whatever you call it. The reality is that the standard of English amongst Chinese still has a lot of catching up to do. This is why we are not seeing any participation from Chinese. As far as I saw, the initial comments coming from whom we are supposed to believe to be Chinese were short, presumably due to a lack of ability to write well in English.
My feeling is that the article was written by some western men, who had stayed long enough in China…
After reading through that article and all the foregoing comments/whinnings/mud-slingings/insults which followed, my conclusion is that half the Chinese people (sub-text: Chinese men) are perceived by some western men to be uncouth, uncivilised, and uncultivated, while the other half who grew up under the same system are perceived to be worth dating or marrying. hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
So, about 50% of Chinese are at least considered quite modern and civilised. hehe
@Eric
RE: “It is difficult to maintain a resaonable conversation with people who are insecure, have an inferiority complex back home, and who are bent on repeating anti-Chinese sentiments.”
Reading from an objective standpoint in that I’ve not taken part in this forum-battle thus far, I would say that your comments are the ones which indicate the behavior you’re mentioning as being “difficult to maintain a reasonable conversation with”. In fact, you are clearly the one with an inferiority complex..’tit-for-tat’ing your way into a hole. Why are you so bent on deflecting ANY and ALL criticism of generalities experienced by both foreign men, foreign women, and Chinese women regarding Chinese men?
Certainly not all guys fit stereotypes above. I would say the same about foreign guys. In fact I think the majority of foreign guys bumming around China are wastes of skin. That being said – speaking purely on percentiles, in my experiences many women from all racial/nationality backgrounds are simply _more attracted_ to foreign men. Specifically foreign white men, but some girls “dare” to hang out with black guys too….and quite frankly, the ones I know who have had foreign boyfriends *do not go back*.
This is not only true in China, but Chinese women from other countries also. My friend in Australia is ethnic Chinese but born and raised in Australia – she came to China for a year and, in her words, finds “mainland men disgusting”. I have some cool friends – Chinese guys – very cool guys..definitely good catches for any woman lucky enough, but these are a rare find in such a sea of peons.
It’s ridiculous for you to take any criticism on a forum so personally, well, unless of course you fit the stereotype and such comments hurt you so much you cried yourself to sleep post-read. Your labels of anyone who disagrees with you as being an arrogant westerner on a soap-box…well, sorry to say, don’t hold up. You’re the one on a soap-box. That all being said, I hope you find a lovely Chinese man that makes you very happy.
@Eric : You might be right, but I wonder why would a 老外 write an article in Chinese, pretending to be a gorgeous Chinese student. It doesn’t make any sense, does it ?
btw, I’m not chinese even though i borrow Chow Yun Fat’s character name :)
Eric Wonge wrote, “As expected, he did not dare to reveal from where he cometh. Anyway, this kind of cowardice is not unusual. I once had an encounter with one of these western ‘gentleman’ in MAINLAND. You nah, that fella was shivering in his pants in front of me. Face to face with me, he probably wished that his mother was around. Oh yeah, he was a head taller than me and had arms longer than a gear, hanging limply like monkey’s arms.”
Please tell us more of this story. It sounds like you are a superhero.
马俊豪…hahaha…how sure are you that a laowai wrote it in Chinese and got it translated? As far as I see it, it could well have been written by a laowai in English, with some deliberate but minor errors in English grammar/spelling to lend authenticity….
…and I know you ain’t Chinese. Nobody here seems to be, including me.
As I said, more than a billion voices are unheard here, since most of them dun write good enough English to actively participate. Otherwise, you would be reading more hard-hitting replies than I have ever posted.
Rick…hahaha. Another clown. Oh my god. You call yourself objective? You nah, ya reek of racism.
I wonder from which book of research you quoted your statistical percentile. Nothing irritates me more than BULL-SHIT but I shant cry myself to sleep over people like you.
@Eric
Clearly you’re not reading. I said as a percentage – of my experience. It is not I who is the clown, sir, and you’re making that very clear for everyone here to see. Reek of racism – impossible – I hate all races equally including my own. One major difference is that idiots like you make the world think that yours seems not be able to take any criticism without getting your mini-me sized ginch in a twist.
Rick…oh, pardon my ignorance. But I was mesmerised by your use of high sounding statistical jargon, you see.
For the record, can you show me where in any textbook of statistics is it written that percentage has the same meaning as percentile? Is percentile a subset of perentage? Oh my good lord!
Whatever…did I read you correctly when you wrote that you hate all races? You’d better seek pyschiatric help. You are dangerous, including to yourself.
In contrast, I love all races, eh!
@Eric
When you begin to argue minor semantics as a foundation to proving some kind of point which nobody else really gets, you need to retire.
“I can’t be a racist, I hate all races equally” is a common – well, commonly understood phrase which counters the whole “You’re a racist!” whine by soap-box heroes such as yourself. Removing the “equally” from the sentence changes the implied meaning – in fact – hating all races equally does not differ from loving all races equally, Eric. But I suppose that is also semantics, and your understanding of language is obviously far superior than others, so I’ll let you decide where to shove my explanation.
wow! you are a master of playing with words indeed. But unfortunately you can’t deny those racist remarks you made earlier on.
@ Eric Wong:
Wow, you’re clever. Point your clever little finger over my name here, click on it, and go visit http://www.cnreviews.com which I occasionally blog for.
You ignoring all of the relevant points of my comment towards you only to focus on my gravatar as to question my race has got to be the most boneheaded maneuver I have seen in a LONG time. What are you? A child? Was your first thought “omg, he doesn’t agree with me, he must not be Chinese!”
Right, Eric, I just sport this “fake” gravatar because pretending to be Chinese is the latest cool thing to do. I must secretly be some other non-Chinese race but felt so utterly insecure about who I am that I had to search far and wide on the internet to find some random Chinese guy’s picture and use it to represent my presence across the internet.
Or maybe it really is just me, in Lan Kwai Fong, in Hong Kong.
Did you replace an understanding of Occam’s Razor with the misguided notion that your less-than-admirable attitude in what has now become the majority of your comments here is somehow making the world a better place by “exposing their hypocrisy” or “maintaining a good balance?”
Eric, you’re not maintaining a good balance. You’re contributing to the noise and problem that perpetuates misunderstandings, resentment, and hatred between the two cultures. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t used a single vulgar word to express yourself. All it means is you knowing how to be an ass with deft prose.
Be that it may that there are Western idiots and racists, that doesn’t excuse your own willing descent into the same douchebaggery, nor does it reflect well upon the Chinese people you think you’re fighting for. The most hard-hitting responses I’ve read from the Chinese sound nothing like what you’ve written. Your comments thus far are far closer to an insecure fenqing rant than an intelligent, constructive rebuttal to points actually relevant to the discussion. Seriously, in feeding the trolls, you’ve become one yourself.
Eric, look in the mirror. You’re over-compensating.
Bye.
@Eric,
I love guys like you. Calling me out as some fat loser westerner? Even if I was at least I am not a da lu ren. Better a hairy fat foreigner than a 3rd grade educated Chi Mate.
You had guys “shaking in your boots?” hahha, maybe if you had about 30 guys behind you which is the only way in which chimatrons fight. I also really love how you can talk so tough online but the truth of the matter is, most chinese cower like little women when faced with prospect or a mammoth fist in the mouth.
I’d be happy to meet you any time and place with or without gloves ;)
@Kai,
Thought we had come to a better understanding but if you want to lump me into the troll group that is fine, I guess I am, but I am still right :) Chinese men are like junior high kids that do not wash their hair. They really dont know much but think they have it all figured out. And they don’t know how to treat women at all for sure. Otherwise they wouldn’t be coming to us ;)
Kai, you’re writing to yourself or about yourself?
I didn’t want to reply to your earlier post about the reason for Chinese spending more time than Americans on the net…and your other BS. That probably got your head swollen thinking that your sermon imparted profound wisdom.
From that piece of rubbish, I concluded you knew precious little about the Chinese people.
I have seen too many of your type: basically insecure, socially inept, and introverted. These kind of people speak very loudly on sites like this, just like you and a few others…but take them out from their little closets, and we’ll see a bunch of monkey-arms swinging cowards, crying mama.
@Kai,
Let me take this for you. Eric you are a loser, your gf probably left you for a white guy.
In a few minutes you are going to post a long rant about how I hide behind words blah blah blah. Its ok though, you can cry. Let it out
fcuk…you want a fight? Hear! hear! Don’t try and show me your martial arts, please. I can defeat you with my words here alone, but that said, I can understand why you therefore wish to resort to physical violence. That, after all, is part of western “gentleman”’s behaviour and confirms all the hypocrisy which I have been trying to get some of you to admit to. But alas! I am talking to people who are bent on thinking that their backyards don’t stink.
By the way, I know of a lot of western women who prefers Asian men to Western ones…I am sure you are aware of that, unless you, as usual, choose to deny it as vehemently as you feebly can, replete with vulgarities.
Kai: Let me take this for you. Eric you are a loser, your gf probably left you for a white guy.
hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa>>>>>><<<<<<<
No, it was a white gal who left a white guy for a black man
@ fcuk da lu ren:
LoL, our understanding is that your name and comments are intentionally inflammatory (which is what trolls do), and I know you’re not going to change. I’m not going to beat my head into the wall trying to wrestle a troll into submission. The only reason I’ve initially entertained Eric Wong was because his first few comments actually seemed mature and reasonable. Who would’ve thought someone mentioning Italy as a place where people often sunbathe without anyone giving it much thought was going to change Eric Wong into such a stark-raving lunatic? I think both you and I can agree his panties got into a mighty big twist seemingly out of nowhere and now he’s on a misguided crusade to set everyone in their place. Apparently, that includes demanding that I change my racial identity.
Like me, you must be astounded by how furiously he’s digging himself into hole after hole. Case in point:
Eric Wong: I didn’t want to reply to your earlier post about the reason for Chinese spending more time than Americans on the net…and your other BS.
Forbes: Chinese Surpasses U.S. in Internet Use
SEOmoz/CNNIC: China: Ten Things You Should Know About an Online Superpower
I may not know everything there is to know about Chinese people, but one thing is for sure: I know more than this wanker.
Oh, and I think “BS” falls into the category of “vulgarities,” right?
Anyway, let’s just ignore the guy.
Kai: hope you will be a little more correct with your grammar. Reason and Because don’t go together. I usually ignore minor typo errors, I made them too, but not this kind, eh?
That said, I see not need for those links. Are you trying to wriggle out of where thou has erred? Please read again. I said:
about the REASON for Chinese spending more time than Americans on the net…and your other BS
Hence, I was refering to the REASON you offered as concrete evidence of your ignorance. But do yourself a favour and re-read the rest of the rubbish written by you, and after that, come up with better excuses, if you must.
That part on internet usage was not all I wanted to say, eh?
Having said that, I know that, unlike you, I am mature and reasonable. Can you tell me something which I don’t know?
Naturally, when people like you start getting too smart by half, I am left no choice but to put you back into your hole.
Why would this girl want to sunbathe in a bikini if she’s afraid of becoming a ‘dark-skinned granny’ by walking to work? The article isn’t consistent which leads me to think that it’s a load of b0ll0cks.
Yes, it was not consistent from the word “Go”
It was written by some western bird brain just to banter … these people are basically inept and awkward in social circles. They live in a sad world of their own.
@above posts mentioning Eric’s girlfriend
Haven’t you figured it out yet? Chinese men are Eric’s clear preference. You can tell by his phraseology and admiration of the Mainlander that he has drank way, way too much cum, in fact, some of his imbalance may be directly related to estrogen medication as he tries to grow tits to match his big gaping vag.
hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
So now, you are indeed a true blue vulgar white man. No wonder the white gals are marrying the black and yellow men.
Eric,
Destroy me with your words? Typical, you along with all of the other Chimates can’t refute the truth that is presented to you about your own kind. Unlike mainlanders (notice I don’t include ALL Chinese) we “whites” are able to face critisisms and dish it back out a bit while taking it a bit.
Actually I’m partially Asian so your “fat white guy” “gentlemen” arguements are a bit out the window. Not that you could differentiate any “whites” apart from their various countries and cultures anyway.
You are the one who threw out the bravado of being tough and how you made “gorilla armed” white men shake in their boots. I am just letting you know that if you have the testicular fortitude to back it up, I would be happy to give you the platform. However, knowing your anatomical make up especially in that region, I am sure you will not take up the challenge, there fore you are officially PWNED.
@Kai,
You got me I am a bit of a troll. Just letting it fly. BTW, do you think Fauna would help me to post a story I need to write in some of the blogs about “crazie craze” a stalker that has chased me for three years? Its a pretty good one
fcuk….you are getting demented.
About time to ignore people like you. You ask for a fight, when you assume you are bigger, but will pee with your pants on in Los Angeles when you see Black Amercans, eh? As I said, people like you are cowards, and that is why you resort to brute force. Anyway, in my encounter with that white idiot, I did not have to lift a finger to make him shiver in his pants. My sheer intellect was enough. It was a pity that, like you, he “grew a head, but his mother forgot to give him a brain”
Okie folks, I give up re-educating some of you. Got to pack my bags for a trip. Don’t you try and hit me behind my back, eh? So far, this debate had been many against one, so that’s some bullying. But I can hold my own quite well against all of you. Shame to you.
@ Ann
Thank you for being one of the few voices of reason here. My Chinese friend had just come back from Chongqing, where he encountered a cook who told his father, “I can tell you are from overseas.” His father responded “How? I am as dark as you are.” The cook said “yes, but your skin is far too clean.” My friend then realised that everyone around him had very uneven skin tone, possibly due to vast amounts of pollution.
I think that it is very fair that this girl wishes for a place that wasn’t so polluted or densely populated. Also, as an educated individual, she has every right to want a man that is not only genteel, but someone whom she can rely on as an intellectual equal. If it were a university-educated woman from the West, most people would chide her for marrying a nouveau riche with no education, the same kind of men that this girl is speaking of.
China today is not the China of the Cultural Revolution. My mother would constantly comment that China, while poor, had a gentler people back then and that people of today are ill-mannered. My cousin from Hong Kong was so incensed by a mainlander who spit on the sidewalk during the SARS epidemic that he started yelling and ranting at him for not knowing a sense of civic duty. The dirty mainlander had the audacity to yell back at him.
All in all, I feel sorry for this girl. My mother’s cousin, who just came to the US, has a similar misconception that b/c she is making more money than she would at home, that she is somehow rich. We all live in the San Francisco Bay Area, one of the most expensive places in the US and she still has not grasped the idea of “standard of living.” It is beautiful, clean, and the people are kind and happy. All this comes at a price but honestly, it is the epitome of the American dream.
Also, shame on all you men for reducing this to a pissing contest. The girl may be naive but if you could get past your hurt egos, you’d probably want some of the same things she does too. Do you not want a woman who is civilized and whom you can discuss your dreams and concerns with? Do you not want to live in an area that is clean and safe and the people have a sense of community?
This poor girl, lost about life elsewhere. But do we not all have the same trouble. I read here and elsewhere constantly about not lowering one’s self or poor people. Writing your true feelings, those kept hidden inside in a nameless blog is harmless at best. Why so much uproar because most of it is true. I am from Australia, live in Shanghai, work in Shanghai and play here. I hate nothing more than standing fifth in a line to suddenly have a dozen if not 50 bloody people push their way in front, but not just men girls also, more likely. But thats China and you take the good with the bad. I find this girls comments amazing where can I meet nice well educated Chinese girls? I only ever come apon girls looking for their next job or someone out to make a quick buck, all get turned away. I was working here on off met a girl and came to China looking to marry my love of several years, but one visit to the mother and it was all over, not Chinese not good enough. We all have a rating and a list of requirements, just most of us are tactfull about how we order from the menu. Give the girl a break.
I’d be interested to see what Chinese men think of foreign and Western women. Anyone got any thoughts? Keep it civil please!
@ fcuk da lu ren:
Uh, how would I know if Fauna would help you with a post?
@ Chinamerican:
I’m not sure who you’re referring to when you say “all the men” but I do most of the people who have criticized the Jiaotong girl for writing this are criticizing her stunning ignorance and blind worship of all-things-western (if not contempt for all-things-Chinese). Many of them grant her and everyone’s right to pursue their own dreams and make their own decisions in life about whom to love and what to aspire to. But, they do rightfully and reasonably take issue with her possibly wholesale denigrating her own kind.
Of course, we can safely say she’s merely highlighting the worst and generalizing, fully aware that not ALL Chinese men/people are as she has lambasted, but I think the combination of her ignorance of the West/Westerns combined with her seemingly elitist/arrogant attitude is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. Being angry at her doesn’t mean one doesn’t want a better China, better living conditions, or more “genteel” Chinese men like she does.
This might give some balance to a part of the debate. http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=505720
Harvard Med School research indicating that Western men are more obsessed with muscular images than Taiwanese men.
“American, Austrian, and French men thought women would prefer men who were 20 to 30 pounds more muscular than average. Taiwanese men described an ideal man who was only 10 pounds more muscular than average.”
“If you think back to the Olympics, Greek or Roman sculptures, or about Norse gods, Western culture has traditionally associated muscularity with masculinity,” said Yang. “In China, Confucius—when he wrote about the ideal gentleman—placed more value on literary ability and cultural attainment.”
Leads to body image issues and steroid abuse, problems which don’t exist much outside the West. Just food for thought.
Yes. The modern conception of what is beautiful and sexy is heavily influenced or dominated by the West. Given the West’s still dominant global status, they indeed get to make the rules. Therein, however, lies the implicit fact that things have, can, and likely will change over time as different civilizations, cultures, and societies wax and wane in their might, whether it be militarily, politically, economically, or culturally. The world may buy into Hollywood movies but they also buy into Japanese animation.
I think, historically, a good physique and cultural refinement both conveyed means of providing for one’s family. A good physique can imply both an ability to work and health. Cultural refinement can imply intelligence, wealth, and status. All of these things are attractive to women, perhaps in different proportions depending on social-economic caste. Now that we live in an age where earning money intelligently has long surpassed hard labor, a good physique is presented as a representation of having the means for leisure and self-fulfillment…and sure, a nice body is still physically stimulating and understandably separate from whatever might intellectually stimulate a woman.
I think people need to be careful about viewing these things as a function of race rather than socio-economics. Had Chinese society underwent the Industrial Revolution first or otherwise bothered to span the globe with their ambitions, what we think as being “hot” today may be very different. However, they didn’t…but you never know when the paradigm shifts.
@Josh
You also should consider that the average in different societies is significantly different. In North America, for example, I fit in with a relatively fit but quite average body in terms of size – 6′1 185, athletic build, but here, it’s relatively huge.
@Kai
I think the important factor here is that neither is more important than the other, and all women have different tastes. The misunderstanding of which is more important is subjective and usually more on the “what I don’t have” from the perspective of men – with physical being the more desired trait, being that the physical but dumb may not be intellectual enough to consider their need for intellect. The fact is people are almost always attracted to something abnormal. Western men *in* China are not normal, they might be seen as a prize, a change from the norm. The moment something is rare, it is seen as having more value…including humans and human traits or abilities, and that is often sought after with or without conscious desire.
@ Rick in China:
I reiterate that what is commonly perceived as “attractive” or “desirable” is a function of socio-economic status (both by what is observed and by the observer) rather than race.
With regards to your comments, rarity alone does not seem to account for why Asian men are less sought after by Western women than Asian women are sought after by Western men. Relationships between Asian men with Western women are rarer, right? But I don’t think anyone sees that as having more “value,” except perhaps for Asian males who feel they’re underdogs and such a “conquest” defies modern global trends.
I also think “people are always attracted to something abnormal” is a bit too bold of a statement but I think I understand your intent. Anyway, I do agree that different people have different tastes but I don’t think it is wrong to acknowledge that there are trends. What I’ve said before certainly qualifies as legitimate sociological phenomenon. The important thing is to not just sit around being upset about it, but to grow up and learn to live with it or even change it (whining does not constitute change).
stupid ignorant woman, there are too many in the world. There is another 500million woman in china and she think she should be treated any different? Get a life slut
I am a chinese girl who lives in the US since I was 17…Now I am 26. I feel so sad to read this post. Admittly, there are things in her message that are true, like guys spitting in public. When I see those things, I feel disgusted, and I want to leave asap. And often, I wonder, how I can enjoy my life in China if one day I do go back there….and can I find a husband in China?
China is my country…and when I see things I don’t like in my own country…my first instinct is ..how do we improve the situation. I don’t know how this ’smart’ girl, who can see that so many things are wrong with China….and yet, she doesn’t have the slightest sense of responsibility to change it. Maybe things she sees are true, however, she never thought about the reasons behind it…the poverty in China, the history of china’s suffering…people’s emotions being surpressed for the longest time….all of these, accompanied with fast economic development made who China is today…
I have dated American, European and Chinese. They are all good guys with differences…however, I’d like to think that these differences are not country specific…they are simply different human beings..
She presented herself as an ignorant girl in this post. I don’t blame her….she is part of the China phenomenon..and she is brave enough to tell the truth..
Every society has it’s own problems, as Chinese…we don’t have to like the problems but we should love our country and its people.
More importantly-Make a difference.
@ Kai
I don’t see her so much arrogant as she is naive. It sounds like this girl has never been outside of China and that everything she gets is from popular, sanitized media. Seeing that she is only a university student, I take her tone as more weary and fearful of the future, rather than attacking Chinese men and society out of sheer malice.
As always, one should never tear down another person’s culture to elevate another’s and I think that is what she did here. However, I think that her situation does need to be put into context and that it needs to be approached with understanding rather than the characteristic knee-jerk nationalism that is so prevalent.
Muscular men is a new phoenomenon from posters selling fitness gyms, swim wear and Hollywood. Let’s go back to the not so distant past and look at some Hollywood icons, James Dean, Frank Sinatra, James Cagney, Henry Fonda were all modest size men good enough to be labled sexy. The 60’s singer Simon & Garfunkel and the Bettles were of slight and skinny built. In fact the hippie generation men were all very skinny. Size was not the determinant of masculinity now or ever. Neither is it the all time cultural standard of desirable male physique in the West.
As for interracial marriages, while there are more Asian women marry out, lately there are more Asian men marrying out as well. I believe partly it is because that women are more adaptable to change and willing to live by the new culture along with the old. Asian men generally seek wives who support and boast his ego and identity, either through the woman’s beauty or woman who lets him be the decider. Asian men have traditionally been more powerful a partner in marriage. Given the fact that Western women are more empowered, traditional Asian men are less attractive as marriage partner. With more educated second generation Asians living in U.S., more Asian men are crossing the boundary and marrying out. It is really a matter of finding commonality in interest and outlook on life between men and women. Physical attraction plays only a very small part and it does not last. A sad outcome of this kind of union is of the War brides from Japan and Korea. Very few marriage lasted once they comes home to U.S. with their G.I. husbands. The Opera about Madame Butterfly and Pinkerton is not too far from real life.
LOL. I picture her in my head perfectly… 4.0 GPA. Pre-med.. Student “politician”.. wait cheerleader… *shrugs*
In other word… ONE STUCK-UP BITCH!
Let this stuck-up bitch get what she wants… They always do… Let her be some dude’s trophy wife…
What I’m trying to say is.. She’s nothing special.. Just another stuck-up girl.
LOL… Yeah. This is typical Chinese thinking…The west if paved in gold…
I hope the U.S. embassy will read this and be moved and let her emigrate to the States… I then I can finally find myself a hot wife, for cheap. She can marry a Mexican dishwasher.
Haha… not to make it sound like I even remotely care about this, but…
We need to pump more feminism into girls like her. (At the same time balance the extreme feminists with some of her) Don’t expect everything from the men, do it yourself if you want it that badly.
Yes… I’m talking like we can engineer the female or something… Wouldn’t that be great?
i am a foreigner living in china for the last 3 years.
1)does this girl know america and other european countries have the highest rates of divorces and wife beating!!!
2)though i am a foreigner i love my chinese gf to be independent thats y she does her own work/business everyday and so do i
3) we both travel in buses and walk when we dont have money
4) we both have skipped meals before so that our dog could get his vaccination !!
5) NOW DO U KNOW HOW FOREIGNERS ARE LIKE HAHAHA
not that im a bad man,, i love a girl and she loves me,,, is that more valuable than wine/wealth
This blog is mostly from guys who get their fix from attacking a dreamy young woman to boost their own self-esteem, calling her the worst degrading names, the equivalent of which I would not considering using on men). While her idealistic West is not the complete picture of Western society, it is at least more than half true. I supoose Chinese guys can never tolerate a liberated woman. This is nothing new in Chinese society, is it? It is no wonder more educated Chinese women prefer to stay unmarried. At the rates are going in China where boys are favored over girls, many of the men will find themselves without wifes. May be they will to change their tune and their attitude.
I am writing as a disgusted, liberated Chinese woman living in the West.
don’t act so high and mighty china! why would you put a plastic derivative (melamine) in baby formula and paint a toy w/ lead based paints? you know that lead based paints affects children in an adverse way. mixing a plastic w/ baby formula for human consumption is a despicable thing to do. the answer is greed , stupidity and callousness of you idiots . shut the fuck up china ! first of all, i would not want this stupid and materialistic CUNT of a girl . she would be best served as a WHORE. chinese girls are always about marrying into money. how about working hard and earning your own success for a change. immigration visa denied for U.S. entry . fucking whore !
@ Chinamerican:
We may differ on how we felt she came across, or how we interpreted her tone of voice. To me, she sounded very “imploring” and “dreamy,” amongst other things, including “arrogant.” The “I’m so much better than this and I deserve so much better than the rest of you” comes from the parts where she rhetorically asks if they would want her to lower herself to riding the bus or participating in a career fair.
We can call her “naive” if that’s an euphemism for “ignorant.” For someone who is in Jiaotong University, veritably one of China’s better higher institutions of learning veritably populated by some of China’s brightest and someone who is adept enough at lurking on the internet, there’s very little excuse for her to not have SOME inkling of the West not being so rosy for her to at least have qualified or balanced her essay of “the West is perfect.” My point here is that there is a point where one’s stupidity DESERVES contempt and ridicule. She crossed that line.
Again, in saying so, I am not begrudging her for wanting something better for herself or for her very legitimate observations of Chinese society’s present shortcomings. It is fully reasonable for me and others to criticize her for what she ought to be criticized for. She has judged others and she has come out to allow herself to be judged. Given that judgment by peers is something of an inescapable fact of life, I think it is fair for all of us reasonable people to accept this. I agree she isn’t saying these things out of sheer malice, but I do think there’s a good case to suggest she does so out of a unfair amount of disdain.
I’m not so sure she’s “weary and fearful of the future.” Maybe for HER future, yes, but there’s precious little in her rant to suggest she’s making an effort to encourage Chinese men and society to improve, unless you think parents belittling their kids in comparison to their classmates is a healthy and sure-fire way of boosting your child’s self-esteem and subsequent behavior.
I do feel her piece was written more out of self-interest than any altruistic notion of improving Chinese men and society. There is nothing wrong with her preferring Western men over Chinese men if that’s what tickles her pickle. What was wrong was how she expressed that sentiment. And if there was a crime for abject stupidity, she’s guilty of that too.
@ Ann:
Yes, there are some guys attacking her to boost their own self-esteem. But I don’t think you’re being very fair here or representative. The Jiaotong girl “boosted” her own self esteem and propped up her own self-worth by writing a long essay laughing at her classmates for becoming “dark-skinned grannies,” for riding the bus, for marrying Chinese men who might one day go out whoring and gambling. She, on the other hand, is so much more enlightened and intrinsically better than that, right?
She is not just “dreamy,” Ann. She’s deluded and woefully disrespectful of others. Being upset enough to criticize her audacity and shameless display of ignorance and disdain does not mean one is just “getting a fix” to “boost” their own self-esteem. Criticizing her for these things furthermore does NOT mean anyone is suggesting she NOT be a liberated woman.
I’m not sure if you’re doing this intentionally but you’re now trying to reframe this issue as some battle for women’s liberation in Chinese society. Shame on you. This has nothing to do with it, especially when so many people have clearly acknowledged her right to pursue her dreams. No one is trying to shackle her down or prevent her from going after the men she prefers. They’re giving her a reality check and reacting to what they interpret as her self-righteous arrogance. You’re being too sympathetic and you’re now using her as some poster child for women’s liberation?
Are you serious?
@ Ann:
Size was not the determinant of masculinity now or ever. Neither is it the all time cultural standard of desirable male physique in the West.
Correct, size is not the “all-time” cultural standard. However, it is incorrect to say that size was never a determinant of masculinity. Size VERY MUCH (and is) a determinant of masculinity for both men and women throughout history in many socio-economic strata. You saying “now or ever” is a bit too absolute there.
Oh jeebus, there’s more….
Asian men generally seek wives who support and boast his ego and identity, either through the woman’s beauty or woman who lets him be the decider. Asian men have traditionally been more powerful a partner in marriage.
You’re kidding me, right? How can this NOT also be applied to Western men, or more accurately, ALL HUMANITY much less just MEN in general? Haven’t Western men been traditionally the more powerful partner in marriage also?
Yes, we know the West underwent the women’s liberation over the past 50 years or so but even to this day, and God knows I studied a lot of women’s studies courses back in university but you highlighting Asian men here is a bit ridiculous, ESPECIALLY given the context of Western/white men often being attracted to Asian women (and men) for the stereotypical conception that Asian women are more passive, submissive, and deferential.
That’s not boosting their ego and identity?
I think your generalization of Asian men is not incorrect, but I respectfully take issue with leaving out the very true phenomenon of yellow-fever and the dynamics of Western-male-Asian-female attraction.
With more educated second generation Asians living in U.S., more Asian men are crossing the boundary and marrying out.
You’re overplaying this one. Yes, more second-generation Asian men in the U.S. may desire to marry out but that doesn’t mean they are meeting the same amount of success as their female counterparts. I personally don’t care either way, but I do care about you using statistical “exceptions to the rule” to bolster your position here.
Also, I believe physical attraction has A LOT to do with it. It is, far more often than not, the initial catalyst for interaction, long before both sides have the opportunity to discover their mutual “commonality in interest and outlook in life.” In this matter, documented sociological studies evidence that much of society currently regards “white” male as the ideal male object of attraction. Again, this is because of the current Western socio-economic and cultural dominance. Of course, I’m not saying ALL women will ALWAYS prefer a “white” male over a male of any other race but this IS a documented sociological trend mutually influenced and reinforced by mainstream society and media.
Ann,
What? So expressing my opinions that she is stuck up makes me what? Look up the definition of stuck-up. Which part does not apply to her?
I DO NOT get off on “attacking” her. I’m simply describing her using the best description that I know of her attributes. Jeez. Why are you so anti-everything? Negative much? I would say the same to anyone similar to her. Note, this is not because my inadequacies due to her preference of western men. It’s not that. I believe in the right of everyone to love the person they choose. Rather, what I’m pissed off about is her whole: “I’m fucking better than you,” to paraphrase, – attitude. I think that is sick… A very sick attitude. Nothing sexy, or liberating, about that. So you either want independent from the male, which is fine with me, but you cannot have your cake and eat too! That is, wanting independence yet make the accusation of inadequate provision.
Anyone can be my guest and take her. Good luck with your marriage.
Didn’t this appear on the 88s blog about a year ago? He translated this into English, but I don’t think you copied his translation, since he is/was? a native English speaker. No one knows what became of his blog, afaik.
Good afternoon to anything and everything that moves. I am back.
Why are brothers fighting with brothers? I shall not go back to Adam and Eve, the beginning of the history of mankind. Suffice to say, we are all descendents of Noah and those others who survived the Flood.
So, do you challenge your brother who is a head shorter than you to a fight, to land your gorilla fist in his mouth? Do you despise your brother and sister because he or she grew up in poverty and had much lesser access to an education that tries to guide men on how to live and what to live for, while all of us know that life on earth and in this world is temporal and will come to an end.
Smarter men and women than we see here have we known , but look at where they are now…and what they are now. Nothing. Just some names on the pages of history books. But more importantly is where they – and we – will be after that?
You fools! See ye first the Kingdom of God…forget about your vanity and your lusts and your pride, friends.
Instead of taking swipes at your brethren, read the words of Christ when He said: whoever feeds anyone of these (ie. the poor) whoever gives clothes to anyone of these….he has done unto ME.
This world is indeed evil.
…over to you.
@Eric
Your rant is meaningless. I’m surprised you weren’t one of the 4 arrested here:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUKTRE49L1DN20081022
Sexual immorality – all manners of it – was a reason for the Flood
@Eric
“I shall not go back to Adam and Eve, the beginning of the history of mankind. Suffice to say, we are all descendents of Noah and those others who survived the Flood.”
No we’re not. We’re all descendants of the monkeys that came down from the trees and the first humans that orginated in Africa or thereabouts.
How about that? Seemless transition from culture battle to sex battle to evolution battle! :)
Women’s Lib is nothing about ‘liberation’ or ‘equality’. It is about seeking and getting a higher postion or superiority. Don’t fool yourselves. Any man that supports what women’s lib really is just a wannabe. This feminism has totally screwed up many women in the west. They have no idea what they want to be. Oh sure you can find examples of “strong” women and “successful” women but I’d bet huge odds they are NOT fulfilled inside. Feminist have created a prison for women and the women eat it up.
Fuller: you are very naughty. How dare you call your grandparents’ grandparents’ grandparents….MONKEYS?
As far as I know, mine were human beings, and MONKEYS along with cows, goats, dogs, cats and others were separately created.
But I believe evolution could have finally equipped some monkeys to learn how to use the internet. Evidence for this can be found on this site.
@dave RE: “They have no idea what they want to be.”
Do you think most men are so clear on what they want to be, and are so fulfilled inside? You’re way off on this one. Also, “women’s lib” means different things to different women – and like with many ideas the majority are good and good intentioned but some are extremist and can be dismissed.
Yes, I spoke in generality, assuming that we are talking about a trend and not specifics. Men with money, and power in old traditional cultures as the Middle East, Africa, South America and China generally look for women younger and with beauty. Women in Europe, North America are more empowered to seek partners of equal status instead of waiting to be seeked. Therefore, Chinese men with means would more than likely look for women who have less means or status. Western men would also do the same in some cases because it is not a zero and sum situations. In general marriages in Western societies are more between equals. This of course is the result of more women getting higher education. In fact more women are now in universities in the U.S. than there are men. The choice of marriage partner now is more a toss up between men and women. It has boiled down to commonality in interest, and values. As is not only are there many interracial marriages of all kinds, but also inter-faith marriages, older women marrying younger men, and women of means marrying men of lesser means. Finally, we have arrived at equality between men and women.
Post script: Let this young woman have her dream at 22. She will find that the grass is not always greener, sooner or later. It seems Chinese are quick to condemn and execute, government level as well as people.
@ Dave
Clearly, you know nothing about the feminism in it’s current form. It isn’t necessarily about “equality” in the sense that everything is split 50/50 – it has become more centered on “choice.” It has become about having the freedom to choose one’s path, whether it’s traditional (e.g. stay-at-home mom) or unconventional (e.g. business executive), and not to be judged for it.
The feminism of the 60s and 70s were different b/c the stakes were different and the paradigm has rightfully shifted with time. The message that was sent out back then had to be radical b/c they needed to break away from generations of existing in a patriarchal system but while the same system exists today, the message has been tempered by what women have been able to gain and it would be out of sync with the lifestyles of most women today.
@ Kai
I do agree w/ the fact that this piece was written out of self-interest rather than a reflection of many young Chinese. As you said, Jiatong is one of the better educational institutions of China and it just might be me but maybe by virtue of admission, she feels that she is the creme de la creme of youth and that she deserves better. Personally, I see plenty of kids like this at Stanford (I work here but I don’t really have any allegiances since I went to a UC :D) as well as other schools. At some point, you do tell yourself that “I am better than this,” mostly b/c of pride and/or fear but it is very immature to do it with rose-coloured glasses on.
I agree with Ann to some degree in that she does show some aspects of Chinese women’s lib by the way she is articulating certain desires but I would hardly call her a posterchild since she is far too green for that.
I think it is easier for men to be more fulfilled inside than women. But I can only judge by the people I know and talk to. It seems that men can just deal more with less.
Feminism, at its core, is the same in its current form as it was 40 years ago. There is no such thing as equality. One group will always want to dominate. That is human nature. Women included.
This lady knows what she likes. But what she likes may not necessarily be true. Her perceptions are her own not necessarily that of reality.
She’s observant in that a lot of Chinese men (not all) are rather less cultured in the finer arts of manner and etiquette. Now mind you it’s a generational issue rather than the country as a whole. Most of the children from parents of the Cultural Revolution have been brought up in a society void of social norms and expectations. A society that is void of rules of etiquette, proper public manners and other forms of behavior that seem (on the surface) to be very utopian to the average Chinese but ubiquitous in western society.
In the West, society reinforces chivalry and other values that respect the fairer sex. We can talk ad nauseam about the differences but she is very condescending in reference to all Chinese men when she clearly is limited to her microcosm of University life and social circles. There are clearly elegant Chinese men who are well-mannered, chivalrous, thoughtful, independent, respectful, educated, humorous, creative, generous and so on. However usually they tend to be older men. Older men who are worldly, who are cultured, who have traveled and who have been to the West and know differently.
This woman is clearly misguided and prejudiced against her fellow Chinese man. She aspires to things all people want and ,that is — to live a full and happy life. She just can’t seem to find it in Shanghai. She shouldn’t be scolded about her opinion. Pity might be a better choice.
Nevertheless, some Chinese men do like her type and in the end that’s good news for everyone. It raises the bar, lifts the standards so to speak. Men will change and seek the attentions of women like her. For what other reason do men exist in this crazy world of ours? We exist to chase women. That’s our “raison d’etre.” Without improvement and chasing higher ideals…we all become rather dull and ignorant.
@ Ann:
Before I respond to your recent comment, I want to preface by saying that I do indeed trust you’re a nice person and that the following is purely for the sake of discussion.
[Long list of exceptions to the rule and minority phenomenon.] Finally, we have arrived at equality between men and women.
No. To be sociologically rigorous, I would say that conclusion is a huge stretch. I think the West is close to “equality between men and women” in THEORY but far from being so in PRACTICE. To the extent that it is more so than other parts of the world, sure, I’m willing to agree, but that statement in of itself is not accurate nor even close to being arguable.
It is what we may hope for, what we may want, but it is NOT what IS.
Post script: Let this young woman have her dream at 22. She will find that the grass is not always greener, sooner or later. It seems Chinese are quick to condemn and execute, government level as well as people.
If you publish something on a discussion forum, you’ve accepted being judged. She did not write this in her diary and someone stole it. She posted this to make her points and her being condemned or executed for it is fully reasonable and ought to be expected. There is no argument for giving her a free pass. You singling out the Chinese for this is disappointing and unfortunately leads me to suspect it says something about your predisposition towards the Chinese. The fact is, go on any discussion forum, Chinese or Western, and this is par for the course. You speak, people listen, people respond. If you don’t want to hear what others have to say about what you said, then don’t say anything. That’s how speech works and that’s how the marketplace of ideas works.
Of course, you’re free to stand up for her (why, I don’t know), but we’re also free to say you’re fighting the wrong battle.
@ Chinamerican:
I’m still bitter Stanford has climbed up to #4 while my alma mater has fallen down to #21. At least we have a better mascot. :D …and an element!
I meant that some of the things Ann was saying made me feel like she was using the Jiaotong girl as her poster child for women’s liberation here on chinaSMACK. I honestly think there are BETTER candidates, if one needs one at all. Whether the Jiaotong girl is green or not has nothing to do with how others, such as Ann, may use her to advance an agenda/ideology.
By the way, I like your response on women’s liberation changing based upon the times, just as I like Rick’s explanation that women’s liberation/feminism means different things to different people, women included.
@ Kai
r u serios? When did you guys fall down to #21?! If it makes you feel any better, my alma mater was ranked one of the worst by RADAR (most “high”) and is consistently so in many national rankings. You guys have an element too?! Take that Stanford particle accelerator!
@ Dave
Men tend to be more taciturn so maybe talking isn’t the best gauge. The first thing that comes to mind is that while more women attempt suicide, men have a far higher success rate. I just heard on the news yesterday that middle-aged suicide is on the rise too.
I think many women today are content to accept that there won’t be “equality” as it is defined in material terms – it is very short sighted to be so preoccupied on who pays for what or who does the chores. We are not so hellbent on “dominating” men as we are interested in building a balanced life, with or without them. If it’s anything that we want control over, it’s our own bodies because we certainly don’t need a bunch of religious nuts telling us what we can and cannot do w/ our own uteri.
Firstly, I have no intention of making this young woman a poster child of woman’s lib. But Chinese society is still very much mired in the old tradtion of favoring boys, thus men. When women find themselves always at a disadvantage, they will either subcome to the system by taking on the role of the passive and submissive female plus a new social expectation of being a sex toy for men; or they can stand up on their own two feet with lesser expectation in material wants but greater self-pride and satisfaction. Additionally, because China has been poor for so long and with the present dynamic economic development and growth of consumerism in China, this sequence of social change makes for a very difficult choice for men and women in China. Should one be straight and honest or to get rich quick by hook or by crook? This young woman wishes for a quick easy glamorous life, while men wish for a get rich quick scheme. So, what’s the difference?
Is it a fair game to hurl such names on a young woman who simply expressed her desire for escape in the form of pointing out the negative social conditions in China?
What is more shocking is the vile insulting names she has been called by some bloggers. Even in name calling, society is biased in that the names used for women carry a much deeper insult intending to denigrate. Let’s try semantic here for a moment: whore equivalent for men is gigalo – whore implies immorality, down low in society; gigalo is just someone who gets supported by a rich woman and is somewhat of a playboy. Take bitch, it carries a sexual connotation of indiscriminate sexualality; stud – a powerfully sexual male. And then again, the names for female and male body parts also carry very different implied meanings.
I seem to remember this article, or one very similar being posted on Chinese BBSs a few years ago and kicking up a minor storm. It sounds like a parody to me, but it’s a good parody: there really are people who think this way. Of course Western men are quite happy that young attractive Chinese females have these sorts of romantic ideas about Westerners, they probably won’t try too hard to convince them that they are unrealistic!
If this girl really believes television so much she should watch more Chinese TV. Streets always look clean there too and young couples have big, tastefully decorated apartments which you don’t often see in real life.
@Eric
We all come from monkeys! Excuse me while I go eat my banana.
“If this girl really believes television so much she should watch more Chinese TV. Streets always look clean there too and young couples have big, tastefully decorated apartments which you don’t often see in real life.”
You’re assuming people believe everything they see on TV as being representative of society rather than your own interpretation of Chinese television.
I live abroad and I know at least one girl like who thought like that. Her goal was to marry a foreigner and she succeeded, but now they are divorced and she’s a single mom. Western men don’t expect to have to support women anymore.
I mean, seriously, this a society where splitting the bill for everything from restaurant meals to mortages to groceries is common. She’s deluded if she thinks a western man is her ticket to an easy life.
美国的条件比较好。至于中国男人，他们经常靠父母，对开放的女孩子来说这样的生活没有意思。 也许她应该找老外男朋友。
The living conditions are pretty good in the US. As far as the men in China are concerned, they seem to always relies on there parents for everything. I think that kind of lifestyle can turn off a lot of women. Maybe she SHOULD find a western boyfriend.
Most, not all, but most people DO want someone in their lives. Trying to build a life where one has to be convinced that “I am alright w/o a man” is bound to cause a lot of confusion and lack a security (not material security).
By all means what you do with YOUR own uteri is not my business. Is this the end all be all of your life, how you treat your ‘uteri’? Are you needing abortions on a regular basis? Just tell me it is legal murder and that you still support it and we will be done. If you are all comfortable with that then it is your choice. But it is what it is no matter the wording.
@ Ann:
Again, you’re fighting the wrong battle. Can you focus on the actual issues pertinent to this young lady instead of trying to drag in women’s liberation or “well, the Chinese men are like this yadda yadda?”
There is no difference between an ignorant, arrogant, offensive Chinese female and Chinese male. I don’t think anyone felt otherwise but it appears that you want someone to acknowledge that.
It is definitely reasonable and understandable to hurl names at a girl who hurled names at others. She could’ve pointed out the negative social conditions in China without insulting others by calling others dark-skinned grannies and implying that anyone who is as smart as she is ought to ditch China and seek a better life in the West with Western men.
Tangent: You’re using the term “bloggers” incorrectly. Fauna is a blogger, draq is a blogger. The majority of us commenting in this post are just, uh, “commenters.” It isn’t a big deal but I just thought you might want to correct that mistake since it is a little confusing sometimes. As far as I know, I don’t think Fauna or draq called her any shocking, vile names.
You have a hard time sticking to the topic, Ann. Now you’re going off on a rant against sexist derogatory terms. Please just focus on whether or not this girl is deserving of the backlash she got. Most people seem to think so, as explained previously. You apparently still want to fight for her, arguing that she should be given some sort of pass for being young, dreamy, or whatever. In doing so, you’ve also raised the women’s liberation banner and now are fighting to rid the world of inequitable semantics. Don’t you think you’re straying unreasonably far from the original discussion?
I’m wondering if you feel compelled to go to extremes in order to defend her at any cost to common sense simply because you somehow identify with her. Don’t answer that. It isn’t necessary. I just want to reiterate that you’re fighting the wrong battles. Since I’m repeating myself again, I’ll try to leave this issue with you at rest here.
It’s a pitty for china, but I have to admint that a small part of the population, the more educated one, want to leave the country to increase their life level. Chinise model doesn’t work more than the soviet one.
What a racist B*tch! Only because she thinks she is “Beautiful” she deserves better. I really don’t feel pity or sorry for her. She deserves to be treated as an animal. That’s how she wants to be taken.
All she wants is to have a master, a guy that will buy a cage of dreams and leave her inside.
China is really becaming 1st world. The country is already producing “Throphy Girl” wannabe.
Let me tell something girl. Your “beauty” will fade, and all that will remain is a very wicked old lady. With nothing in your mind.
People like you make me feel very angry with mankind.
Mankind really isn’t moving forward.
Kai:
It is called broading the topic to seek the motivation behind the messages. To go around and around condemning her post, is to look at it within a small circle, like looking at it through a telescope when every defect is founding, but no cause can be gathered. I am not defending her as much as explaining the background for this behavior which I suspect is not unique in China. She just happens to have 1) the education 2) the youth 3) the endowed looks to have the confidence to write such a controvertial message. I am not here to judge her character which is easily to do in a narrow and superficial way as has been shown by so many people posting on this blog.
I try to promote further examination of the issues behind the story and not just on the the superfical theme. I truly believe in traditional societies like China and others, women are still very much in the submissive position, the lesser social position, and in such case women tend to look for quick fixes and escapes. In other blogs about China, there appears to have a common strain of quick condemnation or call for executions instead of judicious examination. I am hoping for a change in this regard.
Mistypes:
corrections, broadening, which is easily done……
I think Kai has raised some of the more sensible points here.
Eric Wong, seriously, you are taking your own opinion as fact, and your bias is also very annoying.
@ Ann:
Sorry, I don’t think so. Your “broadening’ is done in what appears to be a desperate attempt to justify your defense of her as merely being “dreamy” and in no way invalidates, refutes, or legitimately criticizes reasonable, understandable, and justified criticisms of her ignorance, arrogance, and shameless display of the previous two.
I understand you don’t like people calling her names, but insofar as she disrespected others likewise, it is only fair that we allow her to be subject to the same vitriol she dealt out and thus has coming to her.
You have no cause to broaden in defense of her because no one is forbidding her to have her own dreams and preferences. Yet again, I reiterate to you that people are angry with her attitude. No one owes it to her to give her a free pass on not just being (again) WOEFULLY ignorant but also WOEFULLY arrogant and disrespectful to others.
We KNOW why she wrote her message. You do NOT need to educate us on such. NOTHING excuses her attitude. This is the real world and she is old enough to have a bit more tact and humility than she shows. No one OUGHT to or SHOULD be understanding. We COULD be, out of our own generosity, but that is for us to judge and decide. You are NOT “promoting further examination of the issues” nor is your characterization of others only seeing the “superficial” correct. What you are doing is RATIONALIZING her IDIOCY.
Idiocy does NOT need to be rationalized. Moreover, though I doubt she’s reading our comments, the mere juxtaposition of her arguments vis a vis our rebuttals and criticisms is a far more incisive examination of the RELEVANT issues than you repeatedly saying “oh, but she’s just a young, naive, beautiful, educated young woman who has DREAMS!”
She lives in a dream world, alright, and unfortunately the most effective way of popping out of that self-deluded bubble is to be confronted with harsh reality. That may not necessarily include calling her names but it DOES include being vocal about disagreeing with her and enumerating the countless errors of ignorance and faults of character she VOLUNTARILY put forth for judgment by her peers.
Changing what you consider to be “quick condemnation” or “calls for execution” SHOULD NOT involve defending and rationalizing her idiocy. This is PRECISELY what I meant about you fighting the WRONG battle. She is NOT worth your defense. There are FAR better girls out there that are pursuing a higher social position or self-image WITHOUT insulting everyone around them.
Ann, do you understand this?
So, please do not argue with me, or “broaden,” about anything else UNTIL you can give everyone a damn good reason why we should give her a pass AND put up with her denigrating and demeaning everyone she considers lower than her. NONE OF US are obligated to put up with her idiocy and ALL OF US are free to offer her feedback. Naturally, what she does with it is up to her. And please, for the love of that moral society you keep mentioning, stop defending this idiot.
What this about Chinese not having a sense of humor? That is exactly what I am trying to say. She has offered some very interesting points for examination as issues in the larger social context. She can easily be type cast as an anti-hero in a comedic TV episode, the dumb blond, naive, complaining but still lovable who reminds me of the famous Marilyn Monroe – “Diamond is a girl’s best friend”. I would not take every word she said so seriously. Afterall, even the pictures are supposed to be fake according to Fauna, people posting the pictures instead of the writer doing it herself. I am more shocked at the degrading names that has been hurled at her. I believe the writer has taken the liberty of an artist to write a very controversial piece to stoke some excitement. Unfortunately, all the men fell for her trick, got roused up to condermn her with pornographic language. It is an amazing show of hostility from most male “commentators” toward her who dares to criticize and lay it out the way she sees her world.
Dude…Ann…
…
This story is FAKE. I’v seen many versions of it. It’s becoming an urban legend type of thing….anyway, You guys lost the point here. Comments like ‘Foreigners have a better taste’ or ‘Foreigners are romantic’ are just BS. Just like those foreigners, most Chinese girls fvck white guys because they are exotic. It’s just as simple as that. ;)
@Ann
I’d like to correct your definition of bitch – I think you’ve mistaken it with whore or slut. A bitch is not normally related to being promiscuous, whore or slut is. Here’s a common definition (google define:)
Definitions of bitch on the Web:
* an unpleasant difficulty; “this problem is a real bitch”
* cunt: a person (usually but not necessarily a woman) who is thoroughly disliked; “she said her son thought Hillary was a bitch”
———-
That being said, I find your argument hypocritical. You go on to say “I would not take every word she said so seriously.” after finding details in *comments* by posters who are commenting in response posting knee-jerk or sometimes even just *poke poke* type reactions and critiquing them with vigor as if they were said about someone you know or even yourself. Review the posts and try to be objective, I’m sure you’ll quickly stop arguing with Kai, he just called you out on what it is.
if this article is even true….
then she’s in for a rude awaking.
Western boys are ALL excellent…. Western countries have better living conditions. Sure… am sure her Mcdonald’s worker boyfriend will make sure all those headlines are true.
Man where is she getting all these bunch of crock??? Wayyyyyy too many soccer balls to the head me thinks…!
The author of the article has only been impressed with the images shown on Television, western media. It is unfortunate she has not been to an foreign country like England, U.S., Canada…etc. The author has been misinformed.
Hollywood only projects the best and sugary images to the developing world. Television is not the reference guide one should be using to determine if Western men are better.
China is a developing country, it will take many more years for it to become a developed country. Then people’s behaviour such as spitting, littering and pushing in line with disappear. But the thing is China has a massive population of over 1 billion people. If all of Europe, US, Canada had billions more people, then people’s attitude will become worse, its a rats race to fight for resources, jobs, education, people will jump queue.
Gwailo and laowais are the worst offenders of divorces, de facto relationships, prostitutes addicted. They insult and degrade women in developing country by procuring prostitution and getting their dicks wet. The only thing they have is a western Passport and exit strategy for Oriental women. They lack in intelligence and morality.
The western world is declining, low birth rates, low marriage rates, single parent families, dysfunctional nuclear families.
The best comment Ive heard on this subject was from chinadaily.com
“their big dicks will hurt you”
LOL
Well, so many sexually pornographic words used by men on this blog! The majority of the commentators are men whose egos have been crushed by the yound woman’s rejection. It’s no wonder this blog has the most number of sexual degrading words used ever.
Diamonds are the girls best friend – Marilyn Monroe.
Material Girl – Modonna
Live it up, girls!!!
@Ann
Diamonds cannot warm up during cold and lonely nights.
Nah! A couple of shots of voka and you won’t even notice.
@Ann
What a sad, sad girl are you. Sad, sad, sad. You sound like citizen of USSR. They ate caviar, drink vodka and drove Lada.
Vodkas are sold all over the world, including U.S.. Will it make you feel better if I subsitute vodka with brandy? I love vodka in different flavors and brandy straight. I am a material girl in U.S. of A. Diamonds are a girl’s best friend especially when she buys it herself with her own money.
@Ann
Ann, Ann, Ann,…. I’m very glad you are independent, self-confident woman. If you are. Are you happy? Do you have content life? When you go to bed, do you have that little smile of inner happiness? If you have shitty day, do you talk with your diamonds? Do you have small talks with diamonds?
krdr:
Happiness is having a dog
Happiness is having a white gigolo
Happiness is having my own fat bank account
Happiness is buying my own diamonds
Happiness is driving a Lambragini
Happiness is owning a McMansion
I am the material girl!
In the name of family honour, Chinese people want face. So, even if they don’t marry happily or richly (to a foreigner) , it is a great shame (or loss of face) to return to China “empty-handed”
It is natural to conjure up some material “achievements” to show for it. This is called “denial”
Many Chinese women regret their marriage to the white man, but they have to deceive others, even, sad to say, deceive themselves, till death free them from the life that is not to be. Many of them are beaten up by their white husbands, whose punches and kicks are, well, more painful than a Chinese man’s.
Kai I love the way you write. All of you chinese write with such breath taking eloquence, however, you Kai…you, your words make me feel something that I have never felt while reading anything, ever. How can I become a good writer like you? I’m human like you. I cry when I’m sad, laugh when I’m happy, and bleed when I’m pricked. Does it matter where I was born and raised?
About the young lady who wrote the post. -Forbes quote-”The most accurate study of mankind is man” Don’t believe everything you see on t.v. Television in the USA is and has always be onesided. I wish you all the best.
@Smickno
RE: “Many Chinese women regret their marriage to the white man”
“the white man”…HAHAHAHAHA. “whose punches and kicks are, well, more powerful than a Chinese man’s.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
I’ve never seen shit transparent but yours certainly is.
“”Many Chinese women regret their marriage to the white man, but they have to deceive others, even, sad to say, deceive themselves, till death free them from the life that is not to be. Many of them are beaten up by their white husbands……” – Smickno.
Yes, those Chinese women who marry white men might have their fate worked out that way if they found their husbands on internet dating ads. Russian beauties and other women from poor countries also may face the same fate.
Chinese women marrying white men based on shared interest and out look on life do not get divorced more often than white to white, or Chinese men married to white women.
Smickno’s assertion is a generalization with misinformation.
@Ann
Are you father owner of coal-mine in Shaanxi? I have strong feeling that you are not what you say you are. You are in USA? How many years? 1,2,5?
This one is good: “Happiness is having a white gigolo.” Do you know it is forbidden?
The problem with young Chinese people that they don’t read Confucius or Zen Maters. They are like “fine gentlemen” from Taoist stories.
Ann, wish you happy and content life. You don’t have that.
Wow I’m speechless. It’s sad how she draws all her opinions from the media, where everything is airbrushed and manufactured. I live in Canada, and its funny how many guys spit, litter, and do a lot the things she claims that only Chinese men do. Behaviors doesn’t have anything to do with a persons race , rather it is based upon the individual. Many of the things she claims that only happen in China, surprisingly, are found here too. An example would be tainted food. Although we don’t have poison laced milk, we have ecoli infected spinach, meats that cause meningitis and etc. Reading her article, it seems that she is more interested in materialistic goods; rather than love. She needs to stop wearing her ass on her head and get a clue.
as long as (certain) women continue to mistake materialistic ‘girl power’ for real empowerment, they will never get respect from men.
After all, you are just a transaction away from my bed.
@~~~
In Beijing I saw all kinds of western men doing more despicable things than Chinese.
Apparently it seems she has never lived in a western country before. All her opinions were based off of what she has seen from the media. Well, in every country; there are both good and bad men.
In America, most men you meet are as bad as the ones in Asia. They may be a bit more tolerant, but still do the same things. The average American man would definitely not fit in her ideas of how an American man would be like. Not all of them have manners, not all are respectful to others, and not all act like the ways you would see from the media.
Also, in most American marriages, couples separate their wealth from one another. When they go out to dinner, most of the time, they pay separately. Even though American people make a lot of money, and when that sum is converted to RMB, it seems a lot. Well, they aren’t as rich as they seem to be.
Over half the American population do not live luxurious lives in big, fancy, comfortable houses.
The children in America would be just as bad as the children born in Asia. They have more things they don’t need to work for. American children are more spoiled, more demanding, and can be just as bad as kids of any other country there is.
I have met an Asian women lucky enough to marry a decent American man. Her life is pretty good. Her home is in a nice neighborhood. Her closet is filled with designer brands. She can go shopping every weekend. But, she works for her own money that she sends home to her parents in China.
And there aren’t enough of those men to go around. It seems that nowadays, the population of decent men and/or women are dramatically decreasing.
Good luck on a fairy tale life.
ANN!!! YOU ARE SHANXI COAL MINE CHICK!!!!!!!!!!!!
MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED!!!!
http://www.sextour.com.au/shanghai_sex_tour.htm
This girl’s picture is at the top of the page for a Shanghai sex tour.
Could it be, that she’s an escort? Haha!
Here’s the picture of her.
http://www.sextour.com.au/images/shanghai_sex_tour.jpg
dear chinese girl
Firts of all you are a racist “those dirty migrant workers” and this not at all a high valued quality in a well off accultured western man’s mind.
Second you are greedy and this is also not depicting you nicely, but you are forgiven as this is a characterial part of your co-nationals.
For one statement you are fully right: “Furthermore, some Chinese men lack a sense of independence, only knowing how to revolve around girls, living like a super nanny. ….No thoughts, no temper, my god, I would be afraid of the son I have with this man being like his father, a model citizen so obviously cultivated by an authoritarian country. What girl does not like a man with personality and courage?
Western men were all raised in an environment of independence. They have independent thinking, not like Chinese men, who are parrots”.
I wish you one day will meet a fat cat who brings you oversee and you finally will be faced with your co-national “dirty migrants” in US or EU.
Screw the West! They robbed, raped, plundered the weak countries and enjoyed our blood and sweat. The West have very low morality. Look at the global crisis, all caused by the West. For all those Chinese women who married or thinking of marry a foreigner, you are a betrayer of your people! Their culture sucks big time. Why I know? I spent half my life there. ANd for you all Chinese men out there, treat your ladies with dignity otherwise all you have is “Mrs. Smith and her 4 daughters”. If you dont understand what I said here, I would be glad to explain it to you.
@justme
RE: “racist “those dirty migrant workers””
Distaste for migrant workers isn’t really racism, it’s more like caste elitism, and I don’t imagine there are many people who think the majority of migrant workers (regardless of racial/minority background) are clean and sophisticated. Do you?
Such overly simplified and degrading statements about China and Chinese leave a disgusting after taste in my mouth. In essence, she equals the value of people to what men can provide for her, and I have a major problem with that.
“Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do with your country.” Obviously our “highly educated” cheerleader has little concern over her country — or am I asking too much from her? She seems to have sadly mistaken getting a degree from a “good” school as education.