Government Official Attacks 11-Year-Old Girl

Picture of Shenzhen Maritime Administration party secretary Lin Jiaxiang.
"I am a high official from Beijing, do you dare fuck with me?"

On the evening of October 29, 2008, a big-bellied man around 50-years-old asked an 11-year-old little girl for directions to the restroom. After the girl kindly told him, he claimed he still was not clear, and asked her to lead the way for him. Then, he grabbed her neck and tried to force her into the men’s restroom.

Below is the surveillance video recording from the Plum Garden Seafood Restaurant in Shenzhen City Nanshan District:

Video on YouTube and Youku.

In the video:

  1. The young girl is seen leading the man with the big belly wearing a white shirt to the restroom.
  2. Awhile later, the girl is seen running the other direction back into the restaurant.
  3. She returns with her parents and brother to find the man and talk to the restaurant manager.
  4. The mother and children first return to their dining room.
  5. An argument occurs between the man and the girl’s father while the wait staff look on.

At first, the parents found the woman who was dining with the man to ask him where he is. The woman (also wearing white) claimed not to know anything and tried to leave. Then the over 50-year-old man with the big belly wearing a white shirt came out of the toilet. To everyone’s surprise, he said:

“I did it, so what? How much money do you want, give me a price. I will pay it!”

Arrogantly pushing and pointing at the girl’s father, he also said:

“Do you know who I am? I was sent here by the Beijing Ministry of Transportation, my level is the same as your mayor. So what if I pinched a little child’s neck? Who the fuck are you people to me?! You dare fuck with me? Just watch how I am going to deal with you.”

Eventually, the father called the police. While waiting for the police to arrive, everyone stopped the big-bellied man and the woman each time they tried to leave.

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The police said the man drank too much, does not remember anything, and there were no witnesses of the girl being grabbed by the neck and forced into the restroom, so there is no evidence that the man was indecent towards the girl.

As soon as this news was posted on the internet, Chinese netizens immediately began a human flesh search for the man in the white shirt. They very quickly found pictures of him and identified him as Lin Jiaxiang, a party secretary of Shenzhen Maritime Administration.

A comparison picture of the man accused of trying to force a 11-year-old girl into a restroom at a restaurant with an older press photo.
One of the first pictures of Lin Jiaxiang found by the human flesh search engines. Compare the hairstyle...and big belly...and fashion sense.

There are already tens of thousands of replies/comments and hundreds of pages on many different BBS discussion forums by Chinese internet users, demanding that the police properly handle this investigation.

Comments from NetEase.

If i was the child’s father, I would have already started beating him, no matter where he is from! Support “ding!”

Human flesh search, mobilize everyone!!!

The child’s father was too civilized! Just grab a glass from any of those tables and use it on that beast! Then use the glass shards from that cup to castrate him! Then we can talk!!! I agree, “ding!”

I do not care who you are, dammit, I will call a group of people to fuck his wife and then ask if it is okay to give him money. What kind of shitty official is he?

You use public funds to eat and drink, we endure it;
You showoff your public cars, we endure it.
You have third and fourth “wives,” we endure it.
You have many villas/houses, we endure it.
Now you will not even leave our own children alone…

Let us see how the country will deal with this bastard. Us foreign Chinese are watching.

Secretary Lin said, “Money, right? Give you some money, and your daughter will shut up for me!!!”

I am willing to give a month’s salary/wages. Anyone else willing to give money? Hire an assassin, and murder him.

Chop him up and feed him to the dogs, this kind of human scum.

Shenzhen Nanshan District Police!!!
The entire country’s masses will be watching how you handle this!!!
If you do not give a statement, the masses will give you guys a statement !!!

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To tell the truth, one there is no evidence, two he did not cause any essential harm, so the final result will be definitely be “left unresolved.” [This means the authorities will not do anything and wait for people to forget.]

There were so many people present, he himself admitted it, how can they say there is no evidence?
Shenzhen Maritime Administration, Lin Jiaxiang secretary office telephone number (0755) 83797027,
I already tried it, 83797027 works, answered by a female secretary/receptionist, everyone can go call and inquire.
Everyone can call the Shenzhen Maritime Administration Disciplinary Inspection/Investigation Office to find out what the situation is.
Mr. Lin’s mobile phone number: 13632660781, license plate number: 粤BT7426 [Guangdong prefix]

I can only say deviant, shameless, contemptible, dirty, and every dirty word can be applied to him. I want him to die in pieces.

If he is not “taken care of,” it will be difficult to calm public anger. Human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, human scum, even picking on children!!!

Living in China is so difficult…

If apologies were enough to solve the problem, there would not be murderers. What he did will cause the child great psychological harm. Too angry…

If I was the girl’s father, I would not say two things [waste time talking], I would immediately take his life! Who gives a shit what kind of official he is, I never care about those kind of things!

In China, this kind of thing is considered rare? That you guys would be this angry? Reviled like this?
You guys have probably gotten used to it already, right? Do not pretend like you are shocked!!
Rest yourselves, do not get too tired!

Being a Chinese person is fucking depressing, unable to leave this trashy place during this life…
Being a Chinese person is fucking depressing, unable to leave this trashy place during this life…
Being a Chinese person is fucking depressing, unable to leave this trashy place during this life…
Being a Chinese person is fucking depressing, unable to leave this trashy place during this life…
Being a Chinese person is fucking depressing, unable to leave this trashy place during this life…
Being a Chinese person is fucking depressing, unable to leave this trashy place during this life…

The poor female staff at the Shenzhen Maritime Administration…

Dirty devil + corruption is the essence of many officials.

Picture of Party Secretary Lin Jiaxiang receiving an award in Shenzhen, China.
Party Secretary Lin Jiaxiang receives a "Civilized Work Unit" award on 2008, February 28 in Shenzhen, Guangdong.

More information:

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2008/11/08 Update: Lin Jiaxiang was dismissed from his government position in the Ministry of Transport on November 4th. However, the police have recently announced that there is not enough evidence for the assault charge against him. A video surveillance of the restroom area mysteriously disappeared. You can read more information at Global Voices Online.

Maybe Lin Jiaxiang should have tried the chinaSMACK personals. However, there are no 11-year-old girls in there…I think.

See more posts about government officials:

Written by Fauna

Fauna is a mysterious young Shanghainese girl who lives in the only place a Shanghainese person would ever want to live: Shanghai. In mid-2008, she started chinaSMACK to combine her hobby of browsing Chinese internet forums with her goal of improving her English. Through her tireless translation of popular Chinese internet news and phenomenon, her English has apparently gotten dramatically better. At least, reading and writing-wise. Unfortunately, she's still not confident enough to have written this bio, about herself, by herself.

  • Jimmy Depp

    Well, although we all know the man did it, legally, nothing can happen to him.

    a) he was intoxicated, making him not legally accountable for his statements (when he said yes I did it)
    b) there is no further evidence that he assaulted her

    another capone case.

  • Hot

    Without tangible evidence, can someone be convicted on witness accounts alone?

  • SniperWZ

    Either way, he’s fucked, he is the target of a human flesh search engine, to quell public anger, a lynching of this pig is inevitable. At the minimum, he is going to get cleaned out financially, and he will lose his job, his friends, influence, etc…he will be reduced to the equivalent of a beggar.

  • BeWay

    If the Chinese Govt plays dumb and deaf to the incidence, they are only looking for trouble, big trouble ahead. The idiot should be hanged without question.

  • Fuller

    How sure are we of the authenticity of what he said to everyone? I couldn’t get audio on that clip, but I noticed there were subtitles. Did he for sure admit to it, or are we relying on eye-witness reports telling us that he admitted to it.

  • Ark

    another secretary zhang that needs to be saved first?

  • Foreigner in Shanghai

    I suggest that the video be posted with English sub-titles. I’ve found that the most significant motivator of the Chinese government is through embarrassment. Problems in China, such as the recent milk scandal, the toys with lead paint and the poisoned dog food, are only addressed when they are exposed internationally. So upload a version to YouTube with English sub-titles. Then post the video or link to some highly visible websites, such as the Economist or various Western blog sites. China and her people are great, but stop expecting the government to resolve such problems. It’s quite obvious that the government is full of such men; men that consider themselves better then the people they supposedly serve. So forget the flesh engines. Hit Secretary Zhang where it will hurt the most. Hit him in his “face”.

  • Jay

    This kind of thing seems to happen so often in China. And unless the matter is caught on video there’s no chance of the govt official being dealt justice. This particular creep might pay for his crime but only because he is on tape. A million other officials go unpunished every day.

    I think if this happened in the US or Europe the guy would be arrested on the spot and convicted.

  • bob

    “I think if this happened in the US or Europe the guy would be arrested on the spot and convicted.”

    Are you accounting for the Catholic pedophile priests who were moved from diocese to diocese in a cover-up organized by the Catholic institution? You can find plenty of those stories coming out of US and Europe…

  • Shanghai Brit

    Despite the lack of evidence, he can clearly be seen walking with a young girl in what the restaurant staff could definitely point out is the direction of the toilets. The girl shortly afterwards is seen running away and then coming back with her family who are clearly disturbed. This all points to something suspicious.

    The authorities could and probably would argue that this is not enough evidence and it probably isn’t. But I hope this man is doomed, the human flesh search engine is indeed an interesting invention and it will be interesting to see what justice is dished out on him. I love revenge stories!

  • No links

    So the guy was a bit arrogant, and perhaps he did clip the girls neck. It’s pretty hard to know for sure the extent of his ‘crimes’. If this was video footage of a man who wasn’t an official, would there be this much interest?

    Watching the video, he does seem to be leering at the girl in a rather lewd manner…he may well have been drunk; but I doubt there’s enough here for the guy to be arrested… in any country.

  • No links

    And by arrested, I mean convicted of anything.

  • No links

    ooooh, bad luck Lin,
    the netizens win.

  • That guy sucks

    If that was my daughter, that fat pig would have a steak knife sticking out of his neck. I was drunk. It’s not my fault. How much does your family want so I can go back and eat my dinner while you bleed to death?

  • Josh

    The main story pretty much tells itself. What I don’t get is the father. Several times the official forcefully shoves his wife. That confused me, because it didn’t register at first that he would do that and the husband not go ballistic. I figured he was not on the scene. Wrong, He sees a man who just tried to molest his daughter and then shove his wife around. And he does nothing but argue and call the cops? That is literally unbelievable. It actually defies my understanding of human nature. What kind of man is that guy?

  • lin did not push the wife…the wife wear black clothes not white clothes.

  • GreyMatter

    What is a human flesh search engine and how does it work?

  • Ark

    some examples of human flesh search engines: youporn redtube

  • Shanghai Brit

    This is really interesting, perhaps this is an interesting turning point in the history of the human flesh search engine.

    It was originally used to hunt down songs and films (I think), then built up to sex scandals, then bad people and now government officials. What is shocking is that the government official has actually been punished. This never would have happened without the human flesh search engine.

    Corruption is a huge problem in China and it seems a lot of Chinese people are not happy about it. Perhaps the human flesh search engine is eventually going to be used against more and more politicians and cause a huge problem for the Communist party.

    I’d be really interested to read more about the repercussions of this story.

  • well

    Nothing will happen. All these officals are above law. party can change law which will make child molestation legal now after this incident.

  • jamar

    @well- would they dare to? If they do a lot of unhappy netizens will be dishing out the justice for them and they will lose all faith in government. Not to mention all the other pedophiles they’ll be encouraging with that.

  • Scary

    Just imagine if this guy Lin wasn’t the perpetrator. He’s been tried and convicted on the internet. His life is ruined.

    Vigilante justice without checks or balances vs. an inept judicial and law enforcement system… both equally scary to me.

  • Mike


    The guy said he did it. Even when someone’s drunk are they gonna billigerently say they molested an 11-year old girl and dare others to do anything about it? Also, since his is drunk, shouldn’t the testimony of a sober 11-year old trump his? Shouldn’t the girl have the benefit of the doubt and not the drunk jerk?

  • Simon

    To set example, 1 out of every 10 male government officials in China should be picked out and castrated

  • Batman

    competition! Oh noes!

  • dave

    ….and 1 out of every 10 female gov’t officials in China should should ne picked out and have their lips sewn shut.

  • luhai

    It should be 9 out of 10. I still remember this from the TV series 刘罗锅, it goes something like this:

    Emperor: have XXX put in prison.
    some official: on what charges?
    Emperor: Corruption of curse, isn’t 9 out of 10 officials corrupt?
    some official: ???

  • kyle

    i like human flesh search engine. let it supervise netizen and goverment

  • Jimmy Depp

    The guy said he did it. Even when someone’s drunk are they gonna billigerently say they molested an 11-year old girl and dare others to do anything about it? Also, since his is drunk, shouldn’t the testimony of a sober 11-year old trump his? Shouldn’t the girl have the benefit of the doubt and not the drunk jerk?

    Everyone should be treated equally in the eyes of the law. The defendent always had the benefit of the doubt, unless you’re in a nation that works under (guilty until proven innocent.).

    And for the people who think that in EU or US, this guy would be prosecuted right away, you are dead wrong. Other than the girl, there is other witness that have witnessed the assault itself.

    a) There is no intangible evidence of his assault, nothing can determine the girls “so called wound” is a result of that man.
    b) He was intoxicated – he cannot be held legally accountable for his speech, and even so, “no man shall be a witness against himself”
    c) If this goes to court, it could really go either way, based on how the defence and prosecution present their case.
    d) If they do some deep intereogation, and find this man has a history of this type of action, it would then be a high chance of him being prosecuted.

    Like said above, many catholic preists who have alledly molested children in the US and EU are not charged based on lack of evidence.

    Hell, Michael Jackson was cleared of all charges, and it was accepted that he had many children sleeping in his room on many occasions.

    Also, Many SEXUAL HARRASMENT cases in the US are unprosecuted, simply because “my word against your word” is not legal evidence, or even sufficient.

  • Jimmy Depp

    I meant to say there is no other witness that have seen the assault .

  • fireworks

    In some western countries, simply grabbing the girl by the neck is ASSAULT. The father of the girl has the right to punch the lights out of this guy. Basically, you can’t touch anyone without any reason.

    Legally, he is assaulting the girl. The Police in Western countries will charge him with coercion, humiliation and suffered humiliation and emotional pain.
    The security footage is enough in Western Courts to bring this fatso to justice and pay for monetary damages.

    How can a low and small time government bureaucrat act like a bully in public. If he is off duty, behave like a normal student. Don’t use excuses that he is a big shot bureaucrat.

    Sadly, many small time officials behave this way because the laws and state do not have proper safeguards for the public and the normal checks and balances do not exist like they do in western countries.

  • Fat American

    @ Jimmy Depp:

    The idea that someone is not legally responsible for his/her actions while drunk exists in Chinese law, but it is definitely not accepted in the USA or in at least some EU countries.

    You seem not to understand further when you write “no man shall be a witness against himself”. In western countries, persons are usually protected against forced confessions. When people say things freely (i.e., they aren’t being tortured in Guantanamo by American thugs), they are accountable for those statements.

    While I’d agree with you that arrogant officials or priests can get away with similar crimes in the west, that is definitely not the case when there is video evidence. Many famous and powerful people have had their careers and lives ruined by videos.

  • bopomofo

    Typical belligerent government scumbag. Just as those damn soldiers who have “army” plates the government protects these dirt bags. The local police are NOT allowed to arrest them or even stop them from running red lights.
    They frequently and arrogantly go in front of lines in airports, train stations, etc. and flash some bullshit government badge as an excuse. Happened to me a few times in the Shenzhen border crossings.
    These bastards should be revealed to ALL citizens of the world and let all other countries’ officials know how the wind blows in China. The court of public opinion is so appropriate here. He’ll get off because of lack of evidence but I hope all his neighbors look at him and pull away their children every time he walks by. Death by shame is the best revenge.

  • Buhaoyise

    I’ll be interested to know where this one goes.

  • Haha

    I don’t think he will be let off. Unless you haven’t been keeping up with the news, the government do care about what people thinks now.

    @Foreigner in Shanghai
    I don’t agree that this incident have to go international before something can happen. Really, domestic opinion is a lot more important to international opinion to the government. Again, keep up with the news. When is the last time that international opinion changed something in domestic China.

  • Max Chan

    This man should be demoted. A man like him should not be an Govt Official. What a disgrace. So what he is an official, his behaviour towards the little girl is absolutely obnoxious.

  • Thank goodness for the people who bothered to speak up for justice on this. I think the common people who have been treated as animals for the last bunch of decades are the hope for China. The CCP claims that it is the hope for China, what a sham!

    Nine commentaries piece:

    The CCP promotes atheism; hence there is no divine nature to morally restrain its behavior. The CCP is a dictatorship; hence there is no law to restrain it politically. As a result, the CCP is totally reckless and unrestrained when it acts out of its tyrannical and villainous nature. According to the CCP, who monitors it? “The CCP monitors itself!” This is the slogan the CCP has used to deceive the people for decades. In earlier times it was called “self criticism,” then “self surveillance” and “self-perfecting the Party’s leadership,” and recently “self-enhancing the Party’s governing capacity.” The CCP emphasizes the super power it has for so-called “self improvement.” The CCP does not just say it, but actually takes action, like establishing “The Central Disciplinary Inspection Committee” and “the Office for Appeals” and the like. These organizations are merely pretty but useless “flower vases” that confuse and mislead the people.

  • Jimmy Depp

    @Fat American
    His speech, aka his confession, while his drunk is what dosn’t count.
    I never said that drunk people are not held accountable for their actions. His testimony is what is not accountable.

    This video has no conclusive evidence. All we see if the girl leading the man off the camera, in the direction of the washroom, and the girl running away after. We can speculate, but however, it is inconclusive from this video alone.

    No, even here in the west they will have a hard time pressing charges against him. Did the girl sustain any injury that can be traced the man’s hand? There is also no other witness that saw the man assaulting the girl.
    And when the man “admitted to the crime”, he was drunk, so wether he was telling the truth or not, that statement cannot hold any ground in any court. And no, the father has no right to beat that man, unless it can be proved that he felt his life or that of his daughter was in imminent danger. (which is obvious bs)

    In Britain, if someone feels they are under threat of imminent bodily harm from you yelling at them, that can also constitute as assault. Seeing these two guys are yelling at each other, they are “assaulting” eachother.

    Every form of government has their own flaws and benefits.
    Bush has been doing whatever the hell he wanted to for a long time with his powergrab. I think we can say with certaininty now, The democrats are going to control both houses, and the presidency. Who is going to stop them from doing whatever they want?

  • Kai

    I’m afraid Jimmy Depp is correct on this. What we have is circumstantial evidence and hearsay. Yes, the man “confessing” before witnesses has some bearing, but it might not be enough, especially with him playing the “I was drunk and don’t remember what I said/did” card. If enough witnesses can attest that he VOLUNTEERED his crime, that might help but still difficult to say for certain. That means he’d have to have said something along the lines of “so what if I grabbed the girl by the neck” before anyone accused him of that because that’d be a crucial admission of something he wouldn’t know if he was guilty.

    Again, still tenuous.

    However, the main thing we can hope for is the court of public opinion. He is guilty in the eyes of the public even if not guilty in a court of law, and as such, he will unlikely be able to continue working in the same position as a result. The public will not stand him and even his own staff will shun him out of fear of public association. Will the guy suffer? Not sure. If he has a lot of money/means, he might even be able to stay within the power system, but here’s to hoping his reputation is so irreparably harmed that he’s effectively screwed.

  • Kai

    @ Jimmy Depp:

    Don’t bother with carryanne. If she’s the same Carryanne I’ve seen at GVO and other English-language China blogs, she’s just making her rounds advancing her agenda of denouncing the Chinese government whenever possible.

  • Chris

    I live in Shenzhen and saw this in the Shenzhen daily this morning.

    This is what happens when there is no accountability in government. Officials think of themselves as gods who can do as they please.

    Since this has gone public maybe the Chinese government will chop off his head to make an example of his behavior but it won’t fix a thing about government corruption in general.

  • Peteryang

    Monday, November 3, 2008 at 10:49 am

    I’ll be interested to know where this one goes.

    the recording has been erased and this incident is now considered “civil dispute”, so this one won’t go anywhere, his next move will consist of the following:

    1. find a scapegoat
    2. shut the parents and journalists with some cash
    3. instruct the judge and police to not intervene

    I know he is suspended now, but that doesn’t mean anything, his cronies can reinstate him anytime, as if nothing had happened. this case will be like any other similar ones, after 2 weeks no one would care any more, and the little girl will likely suffer mental pain for the rest of her life, while he continues his lolicon addiction.

    and as a conscious human being, I hope God rips him apart.

  • Rick in China

    I would hope that being grabbed by a drunken guy in a restaurant after accompanying him to the male toilet will teach the girl a lesson – and the girls parents a lesson, wasn’t she with or near them? Doesn’t she know not to take a drunken dude to the toilet? Weren’t her parents close enough (how big is this restaurant anyways…) to see what she was doing or where she was? There are many lessons to be learned, and, lets say he did grab her and try to push her in there – it ended at that, she got away, do you really think she will:
    “Suffer mental pain for the rest of her life.”?

    That’s a pretty strong statement. People are not nearly as fragile as you seem to think, at least, not the ones I know.

  • Peteryang

    well you bet she’s learnt her lesson, so have her parents, and everyone else who knows this incident, but I wouldn’t blame her parents, you could say its not intelligent to leave her alone but technically its nothing wrong, and it can never justify even slightly the offender’s action.

    as for the mental damage, I am just saying that its a possibility, news says she is afraid to even go outside now, from my medical knowledge, the stress she received from this single event could lead to chronic recurrent panic attack or depression, at worst, suicide (remember she is a little girl, whereas healthy adults have much more defense against distress), in that case she will have to take alot of medications for a very long period of time (1 year for mild symptom), not to mention she won’t be able to live a normal life during this time.

    that being said, what I want to see is this man being tried in court, whole process made transparent, with media scrutiny, and dealt according to law, we don’t need him fired or apologize, we need the law to function as it should.

  • Neddy

    @Jimmy Depp –
    “Every form of government has their own flaws and benefits.” We all know that. So spare us of the obvious. Besides, this is not the issue here.
    “Bush has been doing whatever…” Aha, here comes the old ‘but, but, but… in America they do this…” defence. So that makes it OK to do it in China, too, doesn’t it?
    “The democrats are going to control both houses, and the presidency. Who is going to stop them from doing whatever they want?”
    I’ll give you a hint: The Americans will. Not quickly or easily, but if they really want to… Can you say that Chinese have even that much available to them to deal with their wayward officials? No, I did not think so…

    “Don’t bother with carryanne.” If you are unhappy with her views, deal with them, but keep your cheap shots. We all have our agendas, and so do you. Carryanne has something to say, and is entitled to say it. If you are uncomfortable with that, my heart bleeds for you. At least she is civil about it, and does not resort to snide remarks.

    Balanced, and to the point. Thank you, and I mean it.

  • Fat American

    @ Jimmy Depp

    You are of course correct that because he was drunk, that he has a defense against what he said under CHINESE law. Being drunk is not a legitimate defense against incriminating statements in most western countries.

    I just want to refute your assertion earlier in this thread that this situation would be handled much the same way in a Western country.

    Grabbing the girl by the neck in the video would be enough to gain a conviction for assault in many countries. What else he might have done to the girl is up to question though, and I’m not going to speculate.

    China chooses to make being drunk a reasonable defense with regard to some crimes. Other countries choose to make drunk people accountable to lesser or greater degrees. China belongs to the Chinese, and the Chinese people can decide if they like this policy of non-accountability for drunk people.

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  • Thanks neddy, It’s true that everyone has their values that guide them, you could call that an agenda, but agenda makes it sound like you are really up to something sinister or not good. I like to think my intentions are good, and I have not heard any good excuses for all the persecution, terrorism and killing that the CCP has done, only very lame excuses.

  • Kai

    @ Neddy:

    LoL, okay, I’ll humor you. What is my agenda, Neddy?

    Now now, yes, we can argue that everyone has an agenda, (though I’m not sure what you think mine is). However, let’s be intellectual honest here. First, I tend to consider a person as having an agenda when the scope of all they will talk about is narrowly focused on a single point they repeatedly, consistently, and reliably promote. I think carryanne popping up on various English language blogs about China often to comment more about the CCP than the topic actually being discussion falls into that category. I particularly like her grossly oversimplified characterization (and conclusion) that the CCP is inherently “tyrannical and villainous.” And you’re saying I’m taking cheap shots?

    Spare me, Neddy. Have the decency to judge fairly. If I’ve taken cheap shots against carryanne for suggesting that others not “bother” with her responding to comments I see her posting on various websites, then you must acknowledge that she takes cheap shots against the CCP and you’re taking cheap shots at me. Simply put, carryanne disagrees with the CCP, I with how/when she posts, and you disagree with me for essentially disagreeing with her.

    Can we agree on that?

    BTW, I’ve personally complimented carryanne on being rather civil when I’ve questioned her before on GVO. I think that’s nice. If she has something to say, she can say it. I’m not standing over her shoulder pressing the backspace button, am I? I wasn’t able to magically delete her comment, was I? Is there something inherently wrong with me saying what I said? Not really. You just disagree with it maybe because you agree with what carryanne says. But don’t be a hypocritical or self-righteous and please don’t think her comments are devoid of snide remarks. The fact you can type suggests you’re smart enough to understand that. She is as entitled to have her say as I am to have mine, which is to ignore what she says. They are two competing ideas and observers can choose their sides or offer their own. This is the marketplace of ideas, after all.

    BTW, the only person to determine who is entitled to say what on this website is the website owner. carryanne’s entitlement to speech is limited to her own home and public spaces protected (perhaps) by her constitutional rights in the United States or by whatever rights guaranteed by whatever country she lives in, others’ personal property (usually) exempted.

  • Kai

    @ Neddy:

    LoL, what great luck, who would have thought that carryanne would prove my characterization of her commenting behavior so well, nay, even beyond my expectations!

    Earlier, I had said: “I tend to consider a person as having an agenda when the scope of all they will talk about is narrowly focused on a single point they repeatedly, consistently, and reliably promote.”

    Then carryanne comments again with:

    I have not heard any good excuses for all the persecution, terrorism and killing that the CCP has done, only very lame excuses.

    Will you disagree with me that she repeatedly, consistently, and reliably promotes an opinion that is concentrated on saying bad things about the CCP? Now, before you answer that, you do need to be sure you’re not accidentally making me into a straw man, thinking I’m some pro-CCP nut. My point is not to attack or defend the CCP. My point is that carryanne’s comments almost invariably promote one thing: hate the CCP, it is evil.

    That is an agenda. If she was smart(er), she could disguise it by actually bothering to rationally discuss the issues at hand. Does she? I’m inclined to say no. Of course, she’s free to oversimplify and abstract the CCP into some amorphous “evil,” just as I’m free to call her out on it.

    Do you disagree?