Police Called on Chinese Kid Wearing Open-Crotch Pants in US

Chinese children wearing open-crotch pants aka split pants.

Chinese children wearing open-crotch pants aka split pants.

From NetEase:

Police Called on Ethnic Chinese in America for Dressing Children in Open-Crotch Pants, Americans Believe It is Disorderly Conduct

Chinanews.com November 4 report — According to a report by The China Press in the United States, an ethnic Chinese woman in Monterey Park city of the United States took her child for a stroll at the park only to have the police called on her by a white girl. When the police learned that the child was open-crotch pants [split pants] so the child could urinate and defecate wherever it pleased, they couldn’t believe their ears. However, when this reporter called the Monterey Park police, the station chief said he has not heard of such an incident and must investigate further before he can confirm it.

However, regardless of whether this incident occurred in Monterey Park or not, “open-crotch pants” are indeed a common phenomenon in China. Even in today’s United States, following the “mass childbirth” movement of large numbers of Chinese pregnant women [going to the United States to give birth], one can see “open-crotch pants” sooner or later on the streets of ethnic Chinese communities. The question is, does this phenomenon violate the law? What kind of punishment/penalty is there for children to urinate or defecate wherever they please? Ethnic Chinese lawyer Deng Hong gave the following explanation.

open-crotch-pants-split-china-chinese-children-babies-01

Deng Hong says there is no specific law concerning open-crotch pants in the United States, but according to California Penal Code Section 374.3, urinating and defecating wherever you please is considered an infraction, regardless of whether it involves an adult or a child, and if it happens, the first fine is 270 yuan (USD, hereafter), with fines of 1000 yuan for repeat offenders. For a child wearing open-crotch pants, especially when the reason is “to urinate and defecate wherever it pleases”, if police confirm that it is because the parent has not or cannot afford regular pants for the child, then they may take the child from the parents and hand the child over to Child Protective Services.

As for having one’s lower body exposed, United States law interprets it as “disorderly conduct”, with a verbal warning for light offenses and heavier offenses being fined. As for children having their lower body exposed, Chinese people see it as a common occurrence, but Americans see it as “disorderly conduct” on the part of the child’s parents.

He points out that American law does not base whether conduct is “disorderly” from the perspective of the person involved but rather from the feelings of observers. If an observer believes you are being disorderly, then they can call the police, and you will be warned or even fined by the police, even if you are a two to three-year-old child.

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A baby wearing open crotch pants (aka split pants)

Comments from NetEase:

横店影帝 [网易广东省深圳市网友]:

Then what are the all day nude parades on the streets considered?

持砖观望 [网易广东省深圳市网友]:

This is serious discrimination against yellow [“Asian”] people!

网易上海市黄浦区手机网友 ip:124.74.*.* (responding to above)

SB who urinates and defecates wherever he pleases, I discriminate against you, what about it?

持砖观望 [网易广东省深圳市网友]:

This is serious racial discrimination! If it were white people, they’d probably say: We have no right to interfere with their freedom!

客观皇帝 [网易广东省广州市网友]:

My desire is to help my homeland/country conquer the world, so all the children in the world can wear open-crotch pants!!!

网易四川省成都市网友 [中国人可以说不]:

Respecting the local habits and customs is the most basic [way of demonstrating personal] character.

毛主义万岁 [网易广西贵港市网友]: (responding to above)

So only white people are allowed to run around naked but Asian babies can’t have their little butts exposed? What kind of logic is this?

dao713 [网易四川省成都市网友]:

The United States really is impervious to reason—

zhforestcrazy [网易广东省珠海市网友]:

Americans are somewhat making a big deal about nothing and exaggerating the issue! This is a common thing in China’s rural areas, and something with a very long history!

机器兔 机器兔 [网易浙江省宁波市手机网友]: (responding to above)

The problem is, you’re in other people’s territory so you should abide by their customs.

xjlkj [网易天津市网友]:

It’s not that Westerners are being too serious [rigid, uncompromising] about this, it’s that many Chinese people believe these things to be unalterable and trivial. Even when they are bad habits, such as children urinating and defecating wherever they please [in inappropriate places], adults speaking loudly without regard for the situation/surroundings, loudly speaking on the phone, littering as they please. These small things that do not respect public/civic ethics, most think them to be rather ordinary, and this is the difference between East and West. In short: The level of civility is not enough, so consider the public good more.

网易广东省广州市手机网友 ip:120.85.*.*

I endorse children not wearing open-crotch paths! After all, children also have their privacy.

天逸云清扬 [网易湖南省邵阳市网友]:

Don’t Chinese people always say “when you enter a village, follow the local customs” [“when in Rome, do as the Romans do”]? How come you go to other people’s [territory] and suddenly don’t “follow the local customs”?

网易广东省深圳市手机网友 ip:183.17.*.*

My child has never worn open-crotch pants, because there really is no need to urinate and defecate as you please…and what more, it’s very embarrassing/shameful. I don’t know why so many people feel so confident that they are in the right.

网易辽宁省沈阳市手机网友 ip:59.46.*.*

A bunch of losers saying the grapes they can’t eat are sour. When you are in other people’s [territory/society/country] and don’t know , then you should try to learn instead of hooting here as if you are in the right. No wonder we are looked down upon. It’s all because of you people losing face for the rest of us.

Note: Images presented are illustrative and not related to translated article.

Written by Fauna

Fauna is a mysterious young Shanghainese girl who lives in the only place a Shanghainese person would ever want to live: Shanghai. In mid-2008, she started chinaSMACK to combine her hobby of browsing Chinese internet forums with her goal of improving her English. Through her tireless translation of popular Chinese internet news and phenomenon, her English has apparently gotten dramatically better. At least, reading and writing-wise. Unfortunately, she's still not confident enough to have written this bio, about herself, by herself.

  • Aeschylus

    I hate seeing little kids wearing these in the middle of winter – poor little buggers with frozen balls and asses.

    • I love Sexy Chinese girls

      I agree with you. In cold season you can see babies as young as 1 year old wearing a split pants especially baby girls. I always ask myself what the F this parents are thinking?

      • Jahar

        Trying to freeze it off so in the future she wont want sex.

    • Rick in China

      You’ll note that the argument here is less about the nudity and more about the intention for the kids to freely shit and piss everywhere. People in most modern countries have to carry doggy bags out when they take their pup for a walk and clean up after their shit – grandparents in China just take their kids out and let them squat on whatever nearby roadside garbage can or restaurant floor they choose. We should hold parents/guardians to *AT LEAST* the same standard when regulating how they take care of their children, as their dogs.

      • Blue

        Or aeroplane seat!

    • David Smith

      Worse than that is the sickness and disease that can spread rapidly through feces. All sorts of insects, bugs, bacteria and other things are drawn toward piles of feces. Just wait until you step on that baby poo and walk it all through your own house.

      A lot of plagues were caused by horribly unsanitary conditions that were commonly accepted at the time. Something as simple as rats and small rodents running around in public areas, were able to spread fleas that carried bubonic plague to everyone and wipe out entire villages.

      Don’t even get me started on the Black Death.

      The way Americans are today has a lot to do with the history of devastating plagues and infections in Europe from unsanitary conditions. We’ve naturally enforced very strict sanitary rules that come directly as a result from those situations.

      It’s not a case of “we have these rules because we like to work extra hard to be extra sanitary”.. rather it’s a “we have these rules because those that didn’t follow them in the historic areas where our ancestors lived, are now dead.”

    • hailexiao

      The funny part is, the rest of their body is wrapped in 18 layers of cotton and polyester. Because otherwise you might catch a cold!

    • Jess

      they said it would make them question whether they can afford diapers. if they cannot afford something so basic it makes them question whether they have the money to properly take care of a child by legal standards.

  • Joe

    Well diapers are just about the least sanitary thing for a baby, its basically like wearing a walking toilet, it also doesn’t help when it comes to potty training.

    • Some guy

      I’m sure you’re right about the unsanitary aspect, but at least when the baby craps in its diaper it gets cleaned up by the parents. When the baby dumps on a restaurant floor or somewhere similar it’s up to someone else to deal with the mess and it’s unsanitary for everyone there.

      • Kai

        Yeah, that’s more about some people’s beliefs of what are acceptable places little kids can piss and shit than about the open-crotch pants themselves. Open-crotch pants are for convenience in toilet training, so you don’t have to fuss with getting the pants off when the kid has to go. They don’t come with instructions that you should just go wherever you happen to be, which inherently goes against the whole point of toilet training.

        The problem is that a lot of people still have rather rural attitudes with regards to its use and that’s a sort of ignorance that doesn’t fly in a changing social and living environment.

        • Some guy

          True. I don’t have any problems with the pants themselves,I don’t see them as being indecent or anything. I don’t even really care if people here in China let their kids crap wherever, it’s their country and they have the right to do as they please. I will never tell anyone here they shouldn’t do it.

          I just don’t agree with it.

    • ClausRasmussen

      >> the least sanitary thing for a baby

      But the most sanitary for the rest of us if we happen to live in a crowded urban environment

  • bossel

    “Then what are the all day nude parades on the streets considered?”
    “only white people are allowed to run around naked”
    In the US? Or what are they talking about?

    • Kai

      Probably their grossly distorted impression of what life is like in the United States. Probably a few too many Chinese online slideshows of the occasional gay pride parade or other naked protests that weren’t even all in the US (Europe, Eastern Europe, and Russia come to mind), or of college kids going streaking to destress during finals week…all stuff they probably clicked cuz nudity was implied and who doesn’t want to see bewbs and other silly stuff?

      They’re the equivalent of people who have distorted views of life in China. People are idiots.

  • Some guy

    “Americans are somewhat making a big deal about nothing and
    exaggerating the issue! This is a common thing in China’s rural areas,
    and something with a very long history!”

    Maybe Americans don’t want to be wading about in others people’s crap and having their public areas smell like a rural Chinese village.

    “This is serious racial discrimination! If it were white people,
    they’d probably say: We have no right to interfere with their freedom!”

    Um it’s not racial discrimination, it’s hygiene. You can’t just go around crapping wherever you please.

    “The United States really is impervious to reason—”

    I had to laugh when I saw this little gem…

    • mr.wiener

      At a guess I’d say a couple of those posts were being sarcastic.

      • Probotector

        Anything to apologise for them right?

        • donscarletti

          A sarcastic comment needs no apologetics, just a simple explanation that you read it wrong.

          • Rick in China

            In this case I would be shocked if a majority of those ignorant as fuck comments were sarcastic. You do see the ratio of crotchless vs. crotched pants in this country, yes? I do – the crotched are by far the minority. I get most of my baby stuff from overseas, so my baby only wore the ‘crotchless’ shit when she was a newborn, but she still wore a diaper and typically an underlet thing and just the ‘crotchless’ pants on top as winters get cold. NEVER crotchless+exposed. I get upset whenever I see crotchless pants, feel bad for the children, and maybe that’s the source for my general vitriol. :D

      • Guang Xiang

        Anything with an exclamation mark is bordering sarcastic.

        • Surfeit

          Really?!!!!

        • lonetrey / Dan

          What! There is just no way!

        • don mario

          the chinese streets lined with runny baby poop say other wise.

      • David

        Very possibly or maybe simply trolling the Chinese website.

      • As someone who has dabbled in sarcasm once or twice, I would opine that if someone reads your sarcastic comment as literal, then you suck at it.

        When prodded, there should be a reason that proves your sass other than an exclamation mark.

        • wnsk

          So, what you’re saying is, you’ve tried your hand at sarcasm (in a casual and superficial way only), and only once or twice, and that somehow makes you an expert on the subject, and we should really pay attention to your opinion on this, right?

          Don’t tell me you were being sarcastic either, ’cause I literally read you literally.

          • This is the best compliment I’ve gotten all day.

      • Some guy

        You’re probably right, I can’t tell from reading them but to me, it seems like the sort of thing people would actually say and mean. The victim mentality.

    • wes707

      “The United States really is impervious to reason—”

      That’s why the Chinese Dream is to send their children to US universities…

      • Some guy

        I know… ever had a conversation about why you can only drink hot water? or why eating a tiger penis won’t make you a superhero in bed? it’s pointless.

        • Amused

          Wait, tiger penis DOESN’T make you a superhero in bed?!?!?! Oh no!!! But.. But.. But I’ve been… Oh dear :(

          • Some guy

            hey man you’re not the first….. :/

          • mr.wiener

            Maybe it was fake tiger penis…

          • Amused

            Fake?!?! Well that’s a relief in a way I guess. But I’ve been scarfing down three every morning with my Cap’n Crunch. I guess I should chase down that traditional Chinese doctor and ask him what they make fake tiger penis from.
            *facepalm*

          • Poodle Tooth

            Snow leopards.

          • carmouflagger

            Mac OS?

        • Isn’t there a penis restaurant in Beijing? Specialising in penii from all over the animal kingdom?

          • Some guy

            I don’t know but it wouldn’t surprise me if there was. It seems like the type of place that would draw the crowds.

          • mr.wiener

            Penis restaurants get big for a while, then after the excitement fade they just see to get small again.

    • donscarletti

      “This is a common thing in China’s rural areas, and something with a very long history!”

      Something that I originally detested about talking to Americans in America, but for the last few years have started to almost admire somewhat is the instinctive reaction to any mention of a foreign practice is:

      “Well, that’s not how we do things in America.”

      Now, to some Europeans and folks from north of the border scratch their heads and wonder why Americans pay so much tax but don’t expect or receive a working welfare state, or why Americans would rather have metal detectors in schools than give up their AR-15, but one must remember that every country has its little quirks and most immigrants to America come from places significantly more strange and chaotic.

      The good thing about America is that it will accept anyone as an American, but this person must do American things in the American way. And Americans are all pretty unanimous about this implicit contract. Other countries do not have the same clarity of expectation and it leads to confused expectations, which is why amongst other things, America doesn’t have much of a domestic Islamic unrest, whereas Europe, Canada and Australia all seem to.

      I think I have changed my attitude while in China. I think the sort of nationalism you get here, “China’s right because it’s my country”, especially with respect to the frankly ridiculous territorial claims in the South China Sea just makes it a stronger and more united country. Nationalism is without a doubt bad for the world, but when your competitors (I certainly wouldn’t say enemies and I hope never to) have these feelings and you don’t, it makes it hard to compete on any front. My friends from university in Australia are all disgusted by the emergence of the southern cross as a nationalistic emblem (although ironically it is just as visible in the sky over many other countries) but I just don’t find myself minding.

      The fact that 5-10 years ago, the argument “This is a common thing in China’s rural areas, and something with a very long history!” or “This is serious racial discrimination” would have been taken seriously by the Australian public and there would have actually been debate on the subject is just sad. Possibly even in English-speaking Canada today there would still be some sympathy, though I get the feeling over there that attitudes are changing somewhat too.

      • Paul Schoe

        I apologize in advance that I wil not participate in a tax-discussion, but the statement that “ Americans pay so much tax ” is a laugh compared with many countries whose taxes are much higher but that (luckily) do have adequate social welfare.
        Over the last fifty years, the tax level in the US had gone down to such a level that, relatively speaking, the government in the US has never had so little money to perform their social and infra-structural duties.

        • T Harrell

          Yes, in the 50’s the highest tax bracket was 90%, last time it checked, it’s now 38%

        • Blue

          I’d say the tax is higher BECAUSE of the social welfare. It’s not just a fortunate coincidence.

    • Zappa Frank

      to be fair I think most comments pointed out that was a bad behavior and that they should respect other countries habits

      • Some guy

        Yes they did, and reading the sane comments on this site actually makes me like China a little more, you realize there are a lot of decent people out there.

    • Poodle Tooth

      Cholera is a chinese tradition with a long history! Why don’t you respect their culture?

      Also the US *IS* impervious to reason.

      • David

        So I guess you got a twofer. Insult two countries with one post, you must be a proud little troll. Also, as an American, I am personally happy we are impervious to your reason. Have a great day.

    • Only in China. You will never see such 3rd world habit in all 1st world countries. This is why I believe China will continue to be 2nd world for the next 100 years or so.

    • kingObing

      This is like arguing logic with an insane person, pointless.

  • The Chinese started a new trend in California.
    Let’s hope none of the Walmart shoppers start wearing these.

    • hailexiao

      I’m pretty sure the front isn’t open though.

    • Negative Nancy

      I think I’d get rather irate if that woman was shitting and pissing everywhere in public, though. Lord help us if the Walmartians decide to follow the Chinese example…

  • icup ✔️

    if adults did this they would be charged and registered as a sex offender just for exposing.

    if kids did this, cps (child protective service) would investigate to make sure you’re not exploiting kids to sexual predators as a calling card.

    • Rick in China

      That’s right, and a good point – you can bet these guardians would put their kids in pants fast if child protective services started scooping a few of ’em up and word got out.

    • Irvin

      I think the legal term is “indecent exposure” lol

  • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

    Nude day parades? If there even is such a thing, I doubt said nudes fill the streets with their piss and shit, so no problem.

  • Dolph Grunt

    Ever since I quit smoking my sense of smell has noticeably improved. On my last trip to Shanghai, one hot, muggy night, I went for a walk. Every so often I’d pass an area where the smell would be overwhelming…

    Almost made me want to start smoking again…

    • firebert5

      This post may explain a whole lot about the smoking culture in China…

      • David

        You may have just hit on something there.

        • must touch brain

          That’s it! That’s why all Chinese smokers light up when they go to the toilet. Traditionally, the stench was so foul that cigarettes served as a sort of potpourri. Now that the habit has become entrenched, they’ll smoke even in a 5 star toilet. Perhaps buses, trains, hotels and even restaurants reeked of shit not long ago.

          • Kai

            Not sure about that. It’s possible and I reckon some people do it for just that reason or at least some of the time, but I’m pretty sure it is because it is popularly believed that smoking helps you poo.

            Seriously, do a google search on this. It’s pretty eye-opening. Something about the nicotine.

            That said, it may not be true: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16109656

          • Paul Schoe

            OK Kay, you opened my eyes to a complete new thinking of why people smoke on the toilet. But, as the article indicated: most likely it is an urban legend ;-)

          • must touch brain

            I’m sure it’s another old Chinese remedy that’s bullshit. Plenty of Chinese people don’t smoke and have no trouble taking a poo pretty much any time nature calls. In fact, since smoking causes cancer, it’s more likely tumors block exits.

          • Kai

            Heh, the thing is, it isn’t “Chinese”. People in “the West” have said the same thing as well. That’s why I suggested you do a Google search cuz you’ll turn up tons of non-Chinese results echoing what I’m saying about smoking helping (making) you poo.

            To clarify, they’re not saying you need to smoke to poo, just that it seems to move the process along, no different from thinking caffeine helps you stay awake. You don’t need caffeine to stay awake but it “helps”.

            The thing I linked to at the end of my previous comment was a study that actually tried to test if nicotine helps your bowel movements and they said “no”, which is why I said this fairly common belief may not actually be true. Still, just wanted to share what I’ve heard about smoking with pooing.

          • must touch brain

            Thanks. That went well with my breakfast :) I guess your point is that it takes time for people to be educated beyond such notions that smoking is somehow beneficial and i agree. I’m only trying to speed up that learning process by letting them know it really isn’t good for anyone. Since Qingdao is my home, i tend to notice how many people ignore public policies here without a thought for anyone but themselves. If i don’t say something, the issue doesn’t go away but if we speak up, people might slowly wake up and become more considerate.

  • videmus

    Different municipalities have different nudity laws. San Francisco, where the gay pride parades happen, is very different from Monterey Park.

  • IsurvivedChina

    … Let’s blame it on America!

    • mr.wiener

      …Which is fine for now. America has been the dominate country in most of the world for the last 70 years. If China overtakes the US as they probably will one day , they will find the gentle rain that falleth from heaven…is other people dumping on them.

      • 如果你能读懂这些文字,你就是个老外

        …America has been the dominate country in most of the world for the last 70 years…

        As a matter of fact, we prefer rather that than being dominated by the Japs and Germans.

        • mr.wiener

          It is what it is. What you say is true, but I’m not placing a value judgement on it. Either way, if the Chinese do rise to the top or they don’t , it will probably end in tears.

          • David

            I don’t think, in the near future (say 50 years) any one country will dominate things around the world the way the U.S. has. It is more than just the U.S. being a economic or military power. I think with so many countries that were still in the iron age, it was much easier to stand out. In other words the U.S. was at the right place at the right time in the 20th and early 21st centuries (as others have been at other times). Many more countries are significantly more developed than even just 40 years ago. There are many other international choices out there. Japanese Animation, Korean K-pop, European (and south American) soccer, Bollywood. I am not discounting the, still staggering, American pop culture and scientific innovations still has on the world. I am just saying getting lucky is not a bad thing either,

        • David

          Fair enough.

      • Zappa Frank

        China cannot culturally dominate as America did and does, simply because while anyone wanted and still want and can be “American” no one can (or want) be “Chinese”… just economic will never be enough to be in people’s mind like America in a way or another did (and somehow still does)

      • Yes!

        China as it is today, will never overtake US as the dominant country. Not even if they overtake US economically. American culture (and I may include Canadian, British and even Australian and, to some extent, European) embodies a certain value system that all humans regardless of race, language or religion desire and aspire for. Freedom of expression, option to exercise political choice, pursuit of individual aspiration and individuality, economic opportunities, social justice, and so on.

        On my first visit to US, my cab driver was a Vietnamese. I cannot forget how excited he was to be an newly-minted American citizen, especially when he said “My son can be the President of America”, eyes shining and voice oozing with delight. I didn’t think his son might actually become one in the future, but I realised what America stood for, and why everybody wants to go to America and be excited about getting there, including this Vietnamese who spoke broken English in the land of the English-speaking, and being a minority there. It’s called Hope. And Opportunity. Well, Obama is black, and many people even wonder if he’s Muslim, but he is The President Of The United States Of America, where once upon a time blacks were slaves. That’s what’s GREAT about America, for all her warts and imperfections.

        • Alex Dương

          Just to be clear, you’re aware that you yourself implicitly acknowledge that it took a long time for American culture to be where it is today?

          • Yes!

            America 200 years. China 2,000 years and still behind? C’mon Alex, maybe my tirades hurt you because of your Chinese roots. Why are you in America? Make that move back to China!

          • Alex Dương

            I’m in America because I was born here. Just like you’re in Singapore because you were born there. As for Chinese roots, we both have them, pal. The difference is that I don’t have a problem with it; you like to mix your classism with racism.

          • Yes!

            Listen pal, I don’t have a problem with my roots. But I’ll criticise China and Chinese society based on my observations, from my perspective, from having grown up outside of the China and being able to assess and evaluate from the outside looking in. And I think I am qualified to state my opinion because I spend a lot of time eating breathing and interacting with Chinese in Chinese society on the mainland as well as when they’re here in Singapore. Maybe I’m being presumptuous, but I think you’re a bit too far from the frontline to feel the pulse, so I’ll say this “You have no idea, bud”, but I understand. As for racism (classism? huh?), I’m not sure where you’re coming from, but if you feel I’m a racist, fine that’s your prerogative. Curious thing though, while I eat work and play with lots of Malays, Indians and of course fellow Chinese friends here, I criticise mainland Chinese for being racists because they simply refuse to mingle with the non-Chinese here, and insist on being spoken to in Mandarin rather than in English the latter which is the common unofficial national language of Singapore. Most of them don’t even pick up any English words (or Singlish, or Malay) even after living here for 10 years. Many come here as PRs (permanent residents) but they congregate only among themselves or with other Chinese Singaporeans and speak only – guess what – Mandarin. English is what binds us all different races here, not Mandarin, and it’s one of the pillars that build and unify this small country, where other countries have been torn apart by racial conflicts. And I don’t even want to let you in on what they actually think and say about the Malay and Indian Singaporeans here (too long to write, but here’s a hint: “niggers”?) So if you think I’m racist, let me say I don’t think you’ve really met a racist Chinese yet. Go to China and spend some time there, if you haven’t done so, or you might want to read up Chinese writer Lu Hsun (famous book “Ah Q”) to see a real Chinese racist that fits your definition. Not only whites can be a China critic, you know.

          • Alex Dương

            But I’ll criticise China and Chinese society based on my observations, from my perspective, from having grown up outside of the China and being able to assess and evaluate from the outside looking in.

            Here is what you don’t get: your opinions and criticisms are not new. At all. You are simply rehashing / resurrecting criticisms from over 100 years ago. Everything you say about “them” has already been said in the U.S. in the 19th Century. And what have we seen after that? Chinese Americans been elected as Governors. Mayors of major cities. They have been appointed to the Cabinet.

            The people who said what you are saying now over 100 years ago were wrong. Why are you “right” this time? And really, do you even for a second believe that the British didn’t say the same shit about your ancestors that you’re saying now? You think they didn’t look down upon them the way you look down upon today’s mainland Chinese?

          • Yes!

            Mate, today I learnt something new. That 100 years ago some other people have already been saying somewhat similar things to what I’m now saying. So? Doesn’t that count for something, that similar perception have persisted for so long, and for fyi, I am not alone. I’m not the only Singaporean who hold this perception, and tens of millions in Taiwan and many more in HK feel the same way. And, I am sure, many more millions in mainland China share somewhat similar sentiments about their comrades. Think about it.

          • Alex Dương

            So answer the question: why are you “right” this time when your predecessors were wrong before?

          • Yes!

            Is there even a “right” or “wrong”?

          • Alex Dương

            You and people before you have said that Chinese immigrants can’t assimilate. They’re too insular and too racist to do so. People before you have been proven wrong; Chinese immigrants did assimilate in the U.S. So why are you right when people who said the same things were wrong?

          • Yes!

            You realise my point above is not so much about assimilation but rather their different cultural mindset. You accused me of racism and I wanted to show that I’m very much less of racist than many of the mainlanders. You seemed to equate my criticism of Chinese society to racism, ignoring the fact that I am not alone and that millions of others share the same sentiments, including but not limited to those of Chinese descent.. Not to mention those from 100 years ago (thanks for the headsup.) But since you bring it up, assimilation will be successful if one race is a small minority within a much larger community, such as in the US. (Not much choice, d’ya?) Even then, it’ll take a very long time. What do you think the result will be if tomorrow 50 million mainland Chinese arrive in your area; will they assimilate successfully? Will they be Chinese first and American third, or will they be American first? I’ve always wondered about this: if tomorrow war breaks out between the US and China, where will the Chinese American stand?

          • Alex Dương

            According to you, failure to assimilate is a consequence of the “different cultural mindset.” And I don’t see why you are so strongly denying my charge of racism, unless you want to tell me that everything you’ve said previously about Chinese people and their genetics was purely facetious.

            But since you bring it up, assimilation will be successful if one race is a small minority within a much larger community, such as in the US. (Not much choice, d’ya?)

            Setting aside that your predecessors from over 100 years ago still believed that this small minority could not assimilate within a much larger community in the U.S., why don’t we talk about your country? Ethnic Chinese people are the majority in Singapore and have been for a long, long time. Is Singaporean culture different from mainland Chinese culture? Obviously the answer is yes. So how did this happen? According to you…

            Even then, it’ll take a very long time. What do you think the result will be if tomorrow 50 million mainland Chinese arrive in your area; will they assimilate successfully? Will they be Chinese first and American third, or will they be American first?

            …it shouldn’t have happened. Singapore should be a third-world shithole filled with people pooping everywhere, spitting everywhere, refusing to line up, the list goes on. So again, I ask you a question that you are extremely reluctant to answer: why are you “right” now when people who said the same things over 100 years ago have been proved wrong?

            I’ve always wondered about this: if tomorrow war breaks out between the US and China, where will the Chinese American stand?

            You really should read more U.S. history. And let me send that right back to you: if tomorrow, China declared war on Singapore, where will the Chinese Singaporean stand? For Singapore, obviously. So why do you think we’re different from you?

          • Yes!

            I said what I said in today’s context, so I believe I am right about what I said. I don’t care what other people said 100 years ago, I don’t care about American history, I care about what happens in my society and in my region. Naturally, if China in 100 years time become a society like Singapore, or Switzerland or Finland (assuming the rest of the first world have stagnated or regressed), I’ll gladly say “oh I was wrong about them”…..so? Does that make you feel so much better? If it makes you feel happy, good for you. Frankly I don’t give a damn.

            Here’s the caveat: China has been around, to use their figure, 5000 years, and where is it today relative to the other great civilised first world societies? Bottomline is, China is going to have to adopt western ideas and concepts of building a society to become a civilised, modern country, with all the political, social, civil and economic structures associated with the western world. Yeah, a western-style society, perhaps with Chinese characteristics such as Confucianist ideals of filial piety, and some age-old traditions. Obviously what we haven’t seen is a civilised Chinese society that the rest of the world want to adopt and emulate, and migrate to…hey dude, it’s been 5000 years! That’s been my point ever since I started shellacking China here. Obviously you don’t like what I’ve put out there. You don’t have to agree. (You have that luxury, but not many mainlanders have that). But I stand by my point. Let’s just agree to disagree. (Unless I’ve broken some forum rules, in which case, do what you have to do).

          • Alex Dương

            You should care about what other people said 100 years ago because again, you cannot answer my question: why are you right now when they were wrong then? Obviously you feel very strongly about this and your mind won’t be changed, even though as I’ve said, you cannot answer a very simple question. I’m happy to agree to disagree with you; the only thing I’d like for you to acknowledge is that NOTHING you’re saying is new.

            The Chinese are racist and insular, therefore they can never adopt “our” way of life and assimilate. Old claim. Nothing new. Been proven wrong in the U.S., Canada, Australia, etc.

            The Chinese are potential fifth columnists; if war breaks out between China and the U.S., you don’t know which side Chinese Americans will be on. Old claim. And even if you don’t give a shit about another country’s history, you’re SINGAPOREAN. Look at your next door neighbor, Malaysia. Do you believe that Malaysian Chinese are disloyal to Malaysia? If not, why do you question Chinese Americans’ loyalty to the U.S.?

          • Yes!

            Quote: “Look at your next door neighbor, Malaysia. Do you believe that Malaysian Chinese are disloyal to Malaysia?”

            Without meaning to talk down at you, the fact that you have to ask this question shows how little you know about the situation here in this part of the world. I don’t want to write a long winded thesis, so here’s just a snapshot: Millions of them have become Singapore citizens and PRs (and blended in beautifully with us). Guess what will happen if Malaysia should have a war with China? Or even, with Singapore? I’m not questioning their loyalty to Malaysia. I just know how it will turn out. You’re not here so you won’t know, and American history will not be relevant or instructive here. I’ll say no more on this topic.

            Quote:”why do you question Chinese Americans’ loyalty to the U.S.?”

            I wasn’t questioning, as in, I doubt your/Chinese American loyalty. I was just wondering out loud, although I know of some newly arrived mainlanders-with-green-cards who are still actively connected with the CPC, organising Chinese-clan and trade associations and promoting Chinese causes and pro-China agenda – right smack in the middle of US of A. So I was wondering, are these people trying to Chinanize USA? Heck I hope not. (I worry for you true-blue Americans, you’re like frogs in a slow-boiling pot but that’s a story for another day). So, if you tell me, “listen pal, we’re totally loyal to Uncle Sam and if I should be sent to the frontline against the China commies I’ll shoot and kill them without hesitation”, fine. Good to know, I accept it. These days your fellow Americans may feel a little insecure, you know, not knowing which one among them will blow himself up in the metro taking a dozen along with him.

            Damn. Another long post.

          • Alex Dương

            Without meaning to talk down at you, the fact that you have to ask this question shows how little you know about the situation here in this part of the world. I don’t want to write a long winded thesis, so here’s just a snapshot: Millions of them have become Singapore citizens and PRs (and blended in beautifully with us). Guess what will happen if Malaysia should have a war with China? Or even, with Singapore? I’m not questioning their loyalty to Malaysia. I just know how it will turn out. You’re not here so you won’t know, and American history will not be relevant or instructive here. I’ll say no more on this topic.

            Pfft. Singapore is so special that its ethnic Chinese are unquestionably loyal to it and even ethnic Chinese of a neighboring country are loyal to it and not their own country. And you think Americans are arrogant! Wow. You should look in the mirror more.

            I wasn’t questioning, as in, I doubt your/Chinese American loyalty.

            Then don’t “wonder” where we will stand. If you think it’s “obvious” whose side Chinese Malaysians would be on in a hypothetical war between Malaysia and Singapore, and I don’t know the answer because I don’t know Straits history, hmm, maybe you shouldn’t comment on our loyalty if you don’t know our history?

          • Yes!

            “””Singapore is so special that its ethnic Chinese are unquestionably loyal to it and even ethnic Chinese of a neighboring country are loyal to it and not their own country. And you think Americans are arrogant! Wow. You should look in the mirror more.”””

            I didn’t say all that; I only told you the FACTS. You can choose to draw your own conclusions. Suffice to say I know a lot about them – they’re my friends, business associates, relatives. That’s why I said “I say no more on this topic”. You’re arrogant to think you know more about them sitting in your arm chair half the globe away, than I do eating shitting and sleeping with them day in day out for the last several decades.

            “””Then don’t “wonder” where we will stand. If you think it’s “obvious” whose side Chinese Malaysians would be on in a hypothetical war between Malaysia and Singapore, and I don’t know the answer because I don’t know Straits history, hmm, maybe you shouldn’t comment on our loyalty if you don’t know our history?”””

            Precisely, I wondered out loud because I haven’t been eating shitting and sleeping with many Chinese Americans. And maybe you should hold your own tongue commenting on my posts about mainland China since I’ve been next door neighbours with them, eating shitting and fucking with them for the longest time while you’re like, the other side of the world?

          • Alex Dương

            Facts? The only fact you gave was that millions of Malaysian Chinese have become Singaporeans, which is not surprising considering that between 1963 and 1965, Singapore was a part of Malaysia. Everything else was you being arrogantly smug about the loyalties of foreigners to Singapore.

            Precisely, I wondered out loud because I haven’t been eating shitting and sleeping with many Chinese Americans. And maybe you should hold
            your own tongue commenting on my posts about mainland China since I’ve been next door neighbours with them, eating shitting and fucking with them for the longest time while you’re like, the other side of the world?

            Please, when even you admit that you’ve been bullshitting me, I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be spared from it. Don’t tell me to “hold my tongue” on the Straits / mainland China if you won’t do the same for the U.S / rationalize it as “thinking out loud.”

          • Yes!

            “””Facts? The only fact you gave was that millions of Malaysian Chinese have become Singaporeans, which is not surprising considering that between 1963 and 1965,Singapore was a part of Malaysia. Everything else was you being arrogantly smug about the loyalties of foreigners to Singapore.”””

            No. No No. The facts I presented above, the figure above were originally Malaysian citizens, who CHOSE to become first PRs and then Singapore citizens AFTER Singapore became independent, after the separation, not before separation, not during the period 1963-65. Repeat: they were originally Malaysian citizens, they moved to Singapore to work during Singapore’s industrialisation which opened up massive job prospects and then settled down years later. Many thousands of Malaysians are still coming over, and taking up PR today. About their loyalty, as I said, it’s your own conclusion. I didn’t go so far as to claim that Malaysian Chinese still living in Malaysia are LOYAL to Singapore but I know Malaysian Chinese will not pick up a rifle and fight for Malaysia if a war should break out between Malaysia and Singapore. However, the Malaysian-turned-Singapore citizens who have gone through national service conscription will defend the country, no less.

            “”””Please, when even you admit that you’ve been bullshitting me, I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be spared from it. Don’t tell me to “hold my tongue” on the Straits / mainland China if you won’t do the same for the U.S / rationalize it as “thinking out loud.”””””

            You should’ve held your tongue from my first post on mainland China, for the reason of you not actually being here sufficiently make a reasonably informed argument. Then we wouldn’t have come this far for me to wonder out loud about Chinese Americans’ sense of belonging to America, since you liked to point to America’s historical experience with Chinese immigrants to support your argument (somewhat misguidedly).

          • Alex Dương

            The facts I presented above, the millions were originally Malaysian citizens, who CHOSE to become first PRs and then Singapore citizens AFTER Singapore became independent, after the separation. Repeat: they were originally Malaysian citizens, they moved to Singapore to work during Singapore’s industrialisation which opened up massive job prospects and then settled down years later. Many thousands of Malaysians are still coming over, and taking up PR today (Notice I don’t slam your person here while pointing out your error?)

            I believe that many thousands of Malaysians still come over. Sure. But considering that the “total resident population” of Singapore went from 2.013 million to 3.771 million in 40 years, I find it a bit hard to believe that “millions of Malaysian Chinese” have become Singaporean since 1965. What, did existing Singaporeans not have any kids? Is that why LKY had to start population control measures to stop people from having kids they weren’t having anyway?

            About their loyalty, as I said, it’s your own conclusion. I didn’t go so far as to claim that Malaysian Chinese still living in Malaysia are LOYAL to Singapore but I know Malaysian Chinese will not pick up a rifle and fight for Malaysia if a war should break out between Malaysia and Singapore. However, the Malaysian-turned-Singapore citizens who have gone through national service conscription will defend the country, no less.

            Hey, if you feel this way about Malaysian Chinese, you don’t have to pull any punches. Apparently, Singapore is so damn special that Chinese who emigrate there are willing to die for their new country, but Chinese who emigrate to Malaysia or the U.S. have suspect loyalty.

            You should’ve held your tongue from my first post on mainland China, for the reason of you not actually being here sufficiently make a reasonably informed argument. Then we wouldn’t have come this far for me to wonder out loud about Chinese Americans’ sense of belonging to America, since you liked to point to America’s historical experience with Chinese immigrants to support your argument (somewhat misguidedly).

            Please. Stop the bullshit. By your own admission, you have “always wondered” about our loyalties. So even if I did hold my tongue, that wouldn’t have changed the fact that you have apparently “always wondered” about this issue, now would it?

            Well, if you think that Malaysian Chinese won’t fight for Malaysia, I suppose it isn’t a surprise that you think we won’t fight for the U.S. A more open-minded attitude that wasn’t proudly ignorant would’ve let you find out that Japanese Americans were more than willing to fight for the U.S. in WWII, but hey, believe whatever you want. I just want you to know that your belief is complete bullshit, and I won’t agree to disagree on this. It is bullshit.

          • Yes!

            “””Please. Stop the bullshit. By your own admission, you have “always wondered” about our loyalties. So even if I did hold my tongue, that wouldn’t have changed the fact that you have apparently “always wondered” about this issue, now would it?”””

            Yes I have always wondered, but I wouldn’t have expressed it here in writing if not for you bringing up your American history time and again, attempting to apply American history to developments far away with different geopolitical conditions and in a different era. Looks like me wondering out loud about this has gotten your panties all in a twist.

            “”Hey, if you feel this way about Malaysian Chinese, you don’t have to pull any punches. Apparently, Singapore is so damn special that Chinese who emigrate there are willing to die for their new country, but Chinese who emigrate to Malaysia or the U.S. have suspect loyalty.””

            Now I see you’re all wound up about this thing. I said “those who have gone through national service conscription”, so if you have plenty of time do spend some of it to figure that out. I’m sure after many years of being an American, your comprehension of the English language is good enough for you to understand that sentence. To help you along, “national service” here means every young man from 18 years of age will be drafted into the Army. They are trained in warfare, combat, defence, weapons handling and so on, much like your Marines except perhaps the training are not as intense as for your professional soldiers. Only our Commandos (Special Forces) undergo the same intense training as the Marines, but all of us are combat trained and combat ready. It’s gonna take too long to write, and I really don’t want to put up long posts if I can help it, so if you are really interested you can do your own research, if you’re not, it’s fine by me. ….Oh, wiki to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_service_in_Singapore

            It amazes me that just wondering out loud could get you in such a tizzy. Wow. If a mainlander reads what I’ve been posting here, I probably won’t be alive to engage in this “convo” with you.

            And oh by the way, in the post above I mentioned something about mainland-Chinese immigrants who became US citizens who’re actively promoting a pro-China agenda and engaged in activities that would make one go “hmm, are they Chinese or American or what?”….that should give you enough pause to understand why I wondered out loud what I wondered. (Not specifically directed at you, though). Did you not read that part, or you conveniently ignored it? I was hoping you would address it.

          • Alex Dương

            Looks like me wondering out loud about this has gotten your panties all in a twist…It amazes me that just wondering out loud could get you in such a tizzy.

            Yes, because having someone insinuate that you are disloyal to your country is no big deal, amirite? Pfft. You know what the irony is? You’re really not much different from the mainland Chinese you look down upon. Hell, I’ll even say that one reason you hate them so much is because when you see them and how they behave, you’re seeing yourself. So if you don’t like what you see, check the mirror first.

            if not for you bringing up your American history time and again, attempting to apply American history to developments far away with different geopolitical conditions and in a different era.

            Buddy, I asked you a simple question, what, six, seven, eight times? Why are you “right” now when they were wrong then? You could not answer the question. You could only bullshit me over and over and over again. I would’ve only had to bring it up once if you had just answered the question. But you didn’t. And you still won’t because despite all the moronic things you say, deep down, you know that there is only one answer to the question: you are not right now when they were wrong then.

            But I’ll let you go with something better: if you actually believe what you say about China, then you shouldn’t be able to have this conversation with me because your racist, insular ancestors from China would’ve never bothered to learn English or wanted their children to learn English. But here you are taking swipes at my loyalty to my country, in English, and then not even having the balls to admit that that’s what you’re doing.

          • guest

            “if not for you bringing up your American history time and again, attempting to apply American history to developments far away with different geopolitical conditions and in a different era.
            Buddy, I asked you a simple question, what, six, seven, eight times? Why are you “right” now when they were wrong then?”

            Why should your model of observations of Chinese immigrants in the USA over 100 years ago and onwards be applicable, well maybe not the right word, to his model of observations of Chinese immigrants in Singapore today, well since 1965?

          • Alex Dương

            There are several reasons. First, it isn’t just the U.S. These “opinions and criticisms” were made in Canada and Australia as well. They have been proven wrong in Canada and Australia just as they’ve been proven wrong in the U.S.

            Relatedly, second, if you take what @real10:disqus says at face value, nothing’s changed in China for 4,000 years. They’re still as racist, insular, and backwards as they’ve ever been. Thus, the so-called “different cultural mindset” that he ascribes to today’s mainland Chinese should not be significantly different from the mindset of the Chinese who emigrated to the U.S., Canada, and Australia in the 19th Century as well as the Chinese who emigrated to Singapore.

            Yes! doesn’t give a fuck about U.S. history, so let’s talk about his own country. Now, if his Chinese ancestors who emigrated to Singapore had the same “different cultural mindset” as today’s mainland Chinese, why isn’t Singapore a third-world shithole? Why isn’t it filled with people who spit everywhere, poop everywhere, and won’t line up? Either this “different cultural mindset” “criticism” is bullshit, or it can be changed.

            Yes! doesn’t think it can be changed. OK. I guess it must be bullshit then.

          • guest

            Let’s get this straight are you saying.

            The world, or the majority of developed countries, do not yet want to model itself on the Chinese way of life as in the mainland.

            From observations first generation Chinese immigrants don’t want to integrate themselves into society as other first generation immigrants.

          • Alex Dương

            as other first generation immigrants.

            That’s @real10:disqus ‘s problem. He refuses to admit that if you take at face value what he says about Chinese people, his country should be a poor, backwards shithole because the Chinese immigrants who went there should have all (or at least mostly) been racist, insular peasants.

          • Kai

            The problem is that you often articulate your “point” poorly. For example:

            You accused me of racism and I wanted to show that I’m very much less of racist than many of the mainlanders.

            How often have Chinese people been accused of “deflection” when they do something like this? When they respond to criticism by pointing out something similar in others?

            Their prejudice or discrimination does not excuse you of yours. Both of you are guilty of it. Unless Alex argued that you’re more racist than mainland Chinese people, all you are doing here is trying to excuse yourself by saying others do it too or are worse.

            You seemed to equate my criticism of Chinese society to racism, ignoring the fact that I am not alone and that millions of others share the same sentiments, including but not limited to those of Chinese descent.

            Popularity of sentiment doesn’t mean it is justified. That’s a fallacy. He isn’t ignoring that others share your sentiment; he’s just disagreeing with your expression of it. Don’t equate disagreement with ignorance that others share the sentiment. Just because I express disagreement with a KKK member doesn’t mean I’m ignoring that other people share beliefs that the KKK member has.

            Think through what you’re saying logically.

            If I say racist things about black people, can I justify what I’m saying by arguing that there are also millions of others, including black people, who share my sentiments?

            Think logically about how you’re expressing and arguing certain things.

            For example, I (and I reckon Alex as well) agree with a lot of what you said in your initial comment. Aside from some oversimplifications (thinking people want “America” instead of aspects of society that America is only popularly regarded as an example of), the only thing that gave me pause was the sentiment in your initial paragraph:

            China as it is today,

            I’d think, well, how do we characterize China “as it is today”? You’d presumably characterize it as a country and society that is still very backwards. You wouldn’t be wrong. If, however, I characterize it as a country and society that is changing, developing, and making progress, I wouldn’t be wrong either. You wouldn’t necessarily be wrong for saying the former will never overtake the US. Would I be wrong in saying the latter MAY one day overtake the US?

            So whereas you are bearish and cynical about China, I’m keeping my mind open and even being hopeful that mainland Chinese society can get better. As humans, I don’t see why they can never achieve what other humans have. I’m not so eager to damn them to failure and inferiority. There’s always something unwise about taking current differences and projecting them into the future. You have to be very careful with this, and you’ve never been very careful with this in this discussion or past discussions.

            Your subsequent comments are more irksome than your initial comment:

            But I’ll criticise China and Chinese society based on my observations, from my perspective, from having grown up outside of the China and being able to assess and evaluate from the outside looking in. And I think I am qualified to state my opinion because I spend a lot of time eating breathing and interacting with Chinese in Chinese society on the mainland as well as when they’re here in Singapore. Maybe I’m being presumptuous, but I think you’re a bit too far from the frontline to feel the pulse, so I’ll say this “You have no idea, bud”, but I understand.

            So you’re arguing that Alex’s “qualifications” are less than yours, so by extension, his disagreements with your opinion are invalid? This is also a fallacy.

            If we go by these qualifications, I have more than you. I’ve grown up outside of China. I also assess and evaluate from the outside looking in. I’ve spent more time eating, breathing, and interacting with Chinese in Chinese society on the mainland as well as elsewhere than you. Should my disagreements with you automatically invalidate your opinions?

            The mistake you are making is trying to use your experience to justify or argue the greater validity of your opinions when you should limit them to being the basis for your opinions. It’s like trying to win by arguing you are older instead of arguing about how your position is itself more valid.

            In this conversation, you went from discussing how China’s current cultural mindset differs from perhaps an American cultural mindset to fear-mongering and nativism. It sounds too similar to white people worrying about too many black people moving into their neighborhood. The sentiment isn’t abnormal (like urban Chinese worrying about waidiren/nongmin moving in), but it is dangerous.

            I hope you can recognize that.

          • b

            “The problem is that you often articulate your “point” poorly.” They both do and they both miss what the other is on about. Alex is as guilty of doing this as the other and has previous for this too.

            As a mod, instead of taking sides, why not address both of them?

          • Alex Dương

            I don’t miss what Yes! is talking about. The main problem with everything he says is that he hates admitting that what he says is effectively meaningless because everything has an “except…” or a “but…” attached to it (no pun intended).

            Whether he actually behaves any differently than the mainlanders he hates does not change that he thinks he behaves differently from them, and he thinks every other Chinese Singaporean also behaves differently from them too. But according to him, Chinese people are racist and insular, and they’ve been that way for 4,000 years. So Yes!’s ancestors and every other Chinese Singaporean’s ancestors must have been racist, insular peasants. (If Yes! disputes this, then it’s yet another instance of a “but…” or an “except…”) What Yes! is absolutely loath to admit is that the fact that he believes he’s different says that things can change, despite how adamantly he insists they cannot or how skeptical he is that they can.

            That’s the really the thing: Yes! says so much crap that he can’t help but contradict himself.

          • Kai

            As someone who has followed the commenting of both, I happen to think one articulates their point(s) better than the other, and more consistently so. If you disagree with me, please feel free to convince me to your perspective.

            Next, if you review my commenting history with Alex, you’ll note that I’ve openly disagreed with him before and been critical of his articulations at times as well.

            Therefore, I do address both of them when I feel it is appropriate as a person following their conversations.

            Finally, being a mod does not preclude me from “taking sides”. We are mods, not referees. Our duty is to uphold our comment policy, not to remain neutral in the course of discussion. We have our thoughts, positions, and judgements. We can agree or disagree with our fellow commenters, and are trusted with not abusing our moderation powers over simple disagreements of opinion that are not actual violations of our comment policy.

            For example, please don’t use multiple identities when commenting. It is against our comment policy.

          • If I May

            Thank you for sharing that great response, Sir Yes! It was spot on. Hats off to you, and much respect, from a different American who has lived and worked in mainland China since 2002.

          • FlyingTiger

            Wanna upvote this 200 times.

          • Alex Dương

            I find it somewhat pathetic that you seem to agree with @real10:disqus ‘s insinuation that Chinese Americans are fifth columnists. Apparently you didn’t pay any attention in U.S. history, or your teacher glossed over German and Japanese American internment in WWI and WWII.

          • Amused

            It’s great to see a Chinese person who isn’t afraid to criticize their heritage. We ALL need criticism even if it galls us to receive it, and the least painful way to receive it is from within. And we should all be on the lookout for problems that beset our respective peoples.

            When a Euro posts something negative about America, Americans will automatically feel a bit defensive. And the same goes if Americans post about European weaknesses. This can be said about ANY people receiving outside critique. But when the criticism comes from within, we’re much more accepting of the fact that,”Hey, maybe we need to work on this stuff”.

            I feel a big impediment to China’s moving forward is a general lack of constructive criticism from within, and I blame it on the cultural aspects of FACE. That and years of having no voice under certain government types. None of them want to lose any face for China, despite the fact that the best way to overcome a weakness is to first realize you have some.

            So right on bro, keep up the good work.

          • Alex Dương

            So I ask you: do you think there’s any difference between what he’s saying and what was said back in the day when people argued for formal restrictions on Chinese immigration and informal restrictions on Japanese immigration to the U.S.?

            If you do, what are they? If you don’t, then why is it different this time around?

          • Amused

            Well bro, I up voted one post I really liked out of the battle you guys were waging for the reasons I stated in my response to his post. Not sure what you mean, unless you’re talking about the part about poor assimilation.

          • Alex Dương

            I am talking about “poor assimilation.” Yes claims that Chinese immigrants to Singapore are racist, insular rubes who keep to themselves and refuse to adapt to Singaporean culture and values:

            I criticise mainland Chinese for being racists because they simply refuse to mingle with the non-Chinese here, and insist on being spoken
            to in Mandarin rather than in English the latter which is the common unofficial national language of Singapore. Most of them don’t even pick up any English words (or Singlish, or Malay) even after living here for 10 years. Many come here as PRs (permanent residents) but they congregate only among themselves or with other Chinese Singaporeans and
            speak only – guess what – Mandarin.

            That’s a direct quote. So do you think what he said is any different than what white Americans were saying in the 19th Century to argue for formal restrictions on Chinese immigration and later in the 20th Century for informal restrictions on Japanese immigration?

            If you do, then what are the differences? If you don’t, then why is it different this time?

          • Amused

            These are all common complaints about immigrants all over the world man. If you’re American you already know this= America has had all German, Irish, Italian, Polish etc. etc. areas form as well as China Towns. They just didn’t last as long.

            Personally I’d put that down to a larger gap in culture between the Far East and the USA(which descends from English culture). That said, by the 3rd generation cultural assimilation is complete in the US to a staggering degree. I had a couple of bros who were 3rd generation Chinese Americans in school, and they were just as American as the rest of us.

            As to why they’re having probs with being absorbed into the culture of Singapore, I really wouldn’t feel qualified to venture an opinion as I never lived there. I was simply rooting for the spirit of self criticism.

          • Alex Dương

            These are all common complaints about immigrants all over the world man.

            Exactly. That’s my point. These common complaints have been repeatedly debunked over and over and over again. You know this. So I can’t help but facepalm when I see so many people upvote a comment that is, when you think about it rationally, just classic bigotry.

            As to why they’re having probs with being absorbed into the culture of Singapore, I really wouldn’t feel qualified to venture an opinion as I never lived there.

            Fair enough. But as you just acknowledged, these “problems” come up with “immigrants all over the world.” So while you and I may not be qualified to comment on Singapore, we are qualified to comment on what happened in our country, and we know the people who voiced these types of remarks back in the day were proved wrong. Repeatedly.

            So could it be different this time around? Sure. But all I asked for was a reason why. Yes dodged my question every time I asked it.

          • Amused

            Alex I do believe this issue has actually gotten under your skin= never seen you get this worked up bro. You’re usually the most laid back guy who posts here :)

            And I did answer your question, at least in my painkiller clouded brain. The difference is SELF criticism. He’s not a white guy in the late 1800s bashing the “yellow menace” with images of a bucktoothed Mandarin seducing white women with opium. He’s ethnically Chinese and pissed that recent immigrants to his country from his ancestor’s country are failing to embrace the multiculturalism on offer there.

            That is a HUGE difference.

            Whether he’s right or not, well I dunno. But you can’t call him a racist unless you’re saying he hates himself and his own race as an extension thereof.

          • Alex Dương

            You answered my question. Yes did not. He dodged it every single time. You agree that he’s just rehashing “common complaints” that have been debunked over and over and over and over and over again. He won’t admit that. He thinks it’s “different” this time, but he sure as hell won’t say why.

            I can let that go with “agree to disagree.” I think it’s a crappy opinion, but obviously he can’t be persuaded otherwise. But what I can’t let go is his secondary opinion that Chinese Americans’ loyalty to the U.S. is suspect. That fucking pisses me off. Setting aside that he’s happy to be ignorant about U.S. history (despite making this bullshit accusation), he knows damn well that Chinese Singaporeans’ loyalty is to Singapore and not China. So why does he “wonder” if it’s different for us?

          • Amused

            Ok, I can see why you’re bent then. Having your patriotism questioned by someone who doesn’t know you, much less a foreigner would naturally be infuriating. That’s just bullshit.

          • Kai

            Self-criticism is when people say “we” have this problem and “we” need to change it. There have been plenty of examples translated by cS throughout the years.

            Yes! is not doing that. He’s like any other Hong Konger, Taiwanese, or overseas ethnic Chinese person who negatively generalizes mainlanders and engages in nativist fear-mongering. He sees them as distinct from himself and his own. He’ll only fall back on the “I’m ethnic Chinese too” defense out of convenience to deflect criticism of his expressed prejudices and contempt, but note how it’s an “us vs. them” dynamic at all other times. That’s not “self-criticism”, that’s crossing over into prejudice.

            It’s important to note that having criticisms alone isn’t prejudice. What makes Yes! prejudiced is how he expresses those criticisms. All it takes to see prejudice in what he’s saying is a substitution of identity. Change Chinese or mainlanders to some other identity or nationality or whatever. It’s easy to miss prejudice when it happens to be subconsciously shared by us, but prejudice is prejudice.

            A lot of people, including Alex and myself, share Yes! criticisms about modern China and Chinese society, but we have to express disagreement with him because his criticisms are expressed with prejudice. With the two so entwined, people upvoting it gives cause for concern. One can’t help but wonder to what extent they agree. Are they just agreeing in part or in whole? That said, benefit of the doubt should be given that it is just in part, just like voting for Obama doesn’t mean agreeing with every aspect of Obama’s political platform. By asking you, I think Alex gave you the benefit of the doubt to clarify to him where your upvote ends.

          • Amused

            Well, that makes shit a bit more clear on my end. Hope I clarified what I agreed with to both of your satisfactions. Honestly I barely remember typing all this last night= I’m on some crazy assed opiate based painkillers due to back pain, so looking back I’m rather surprised I was at all coherent.

          • Yes!

            Alex, let me give you a helping hand in understanding why in my humble opinion I think Chinese assimilation is subject to prevailing conditions and not universal. I don’t want to continue a running debate because it’s quite unproductive actually, when all I really wanted to do was to post my 2 cents worth of thought and not write a 500-page thesis.

            The Chinese assimilated well in the US because (1) Chinese look up to the superior white race/s (2) the Chinese are a tiny minority, so they simply immersed and became matrixed themselves to Mr Smith. Mind you, we’re not going to go into another debate about what “assimilation” means for you and me because we both live in different social and political constructs.

            The mainland Chinese are NOT assimilating well in Singapore because they feel that Singapore is, to them, basically a Chinese country, the minority races are insignificant numbers in their eyes (much like Tibetans, Uighurs, Yunannese), and that Singaporean Chinese are “bananas”, white on the inside (westernised) and yellow outside (Chinese skin), and THEY ARE SUPERIOR to us Singaporeans despite the fact that we are better educated, more exposed to the world, more knowledgeable, more disciplined, more civilised (Yes!) and have better civic conosciousness. The only reason why they’re here, as all Singaporeans know, is economics and safe haven. Most of them belong to the group of people their President Xi has been going after since he came to power. They look up to whites, so they may just bend over a bit more to blend into the American (or British, or Australian etc) way. But not so much when they deal with other Chinese overseas. Why so? My guess is that they feel that we are not as “Chinese” as they are, hence we are not of the “same stature” with them. The only positive idea mainland Chinese may have about overseas Chinese is that, we’re all living on top of Mt Gold i.e. that we’re much richer than they are and that we have an easier life than them (not always true, everybody still has to grind out their livelihoods). That’s the reason why we see tens of thousands of young Chinese women here on one-month visas looking to marry Singapore husbands or looking for married men as “boyfriends” in return for maintenance.. I could go on and on and on, but I think you may have difficulty understanding our experience with them because you’re not living here and interacting with them the way we are; seems to me all you’ve got for reference are the Chinatown in your area, and a history book with which you often use to try to prove you’re right.

            As I said before, I am not interested in knowing if I’m right or wrong in your eyes, but it’s irritating as hell that you approach this convo from a “don’t give the bullshit just answer yes or no, right or wrong” angle – hell, we’re not in the court of law are we? Perhaps you might want to look for someone else to spar with to get your “right or wrong” fix. What I’ve put out there is based on my experience, shared by many Singaporean Chinese, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers i.e. overseas Chinese living next door to the Great Motherland exposed to all the irrational and whimsical behaviour of their leaders. I think if you REALLY want to know if you are right or wrong, you should leave the comfy of your US of A, come to Asia – Singapore, or Taiwan or Hong Kong and live amongst us for a bit and make your own observations vis a vis the mainland Chinese, as well as spend some time in China i.e. come have a closer look and smell the shit that we get from them, before you make your judgement. I am sure it will be an eye opener for you, and perhaps you might just understand where I’ve been coming from.

            I’ll be happy to engage you bit here and there on such similar topic, but please don’t give me this bullshit feeling that you’re grilling me in a courthouse, because this is NOT what this forum is about. I am up for discussion, not a high school debating contest where one must be a winner and the other a loser. I can respect differing opinions but I haven’t laughed at you yet for basing your argument on some (stupid) American history book that holds little relevance whatsoever to our experiences in Southeast Asia. But then, it just shows how much and how well you of Chinese ancestry have assimilated into American society – assertive (which I like about Americans, individuality emphasised by your society) and arrogant to the point of being ignorant, as if you know it all and everything you experience in the US of A is relevant and applicable to everywhere else on earth. No offense intended, just being frank.

          • Alex Dương

            But then, it just shows how much and how well you of Chinese ancestry have assimilated into American society – assertive (which I like about Americans, individuality emphasised by your society) and arrogant to the point of being ignorant, as if you know it all and everything you experience in the US of A is relevant and applicable to everywhere else on earth. No offense intended, just being frank.

            As I said, obviously you feel very strongly about your opinion on this and I can’t convince you otherwise. Fine. I think your very existence and the fact that you don’t behave the same way as mainland Chinese do contradicts your opinion and your criticisms, but I’ll agree to disagree on this. No problem.

            What I will absolutely NOT, under any circumstances, agree to disagree or let go is when you had the audacity to question Chinese Americans’ loyalty to the U.S:

            I’ve always wondered about this: if tomorrow war breaks out between the US and China, where will the Chinese American stand?

            First of all, if you don’t give a fuck about my country’s history and don’t think any of it applies to Singapore, why the fuck have you “always wondered” about this? Second, why do you think we’re different from you? If you think that every Chinese Singaporean is loyal to Singapore and not China, um, we’re different than you…because?

          • Kai

            The mainland Chinese are NOT assimilating well in Singapore

            Your distinction between the US and Singapore is predominantly arbitrary. Assimilation correlates more to the generation of the immigrant. First-generation immigrants are widely seen as assimilating poorly in every host country/society. It is second- and third-generation immigrants who predominantly assimilate.

            The lack of assimilation by recent mainland immigrants to Singapore mirrors that of recent mainland immigrants to the US (or elsewhere). It is not because they think Singapore is a Chinese country (or at least to the degree you are portraying it). They are not assimilating well because that’s how it is for most first-generation immigrants anywhere.

            They don’t, in general, think they are superior to Singaporeans unless they get defensive when you try to impress upon how Singaporeans are superior to them. Then it becomes a dick-measuring contest often involving wealth or claims of cultural “purity”. The irony of all this is Singapore own extensive history of ethnic Chinese seeing themselves as superior to other ethnicities. Such attitudes were socialized out over time, with subsequent generations having more enlightened notions.

            As I said before, I am not interested in knowing if I’m right or wrong in your eyes,

            He didn’t say you should be interested in knowing if he thinks you’re right or wrong. You shared what you think and he did too. He criticized you for your opinion, but this retort of yours is you criticizing him for having and expresing an opinion. Do you see him saying stuff like “I’m not interested in knowing what Yes! thinks about mainland Chinese”?

            but it’s irritating as hell that you approach this convo from a “don’t give the bullshit just answer yes or no, right or wrong” angle – hell, we’re not in the court of law are we?

            Couldn’t he say it’s irritating as hell that you approach this convo from a “[insert criticism]” angle?

            You’re not addressing his points of disagreement in all this. All you’re doing is whining that someone dares to publicly disagree with you. No, we’re not in a court of law but we are in a court of public opinion, so there’s nothing wrong with someone who questions whether your opinions are good sense.

            I am up for discussion, not a high school debating contest where one must be a winner and the other a loser.

            It feels more like you are the one who thinks there must be a winner and a loser. A good discussion includes recognition of each other’s valid points. A good discussion doesn’t see acknowledgement of the other person’s points or one’s own mistakes as “losing”.

            I can respect differing opinions but I haven’t laughed at you yet for basing your argument on some (stupid) American history book that holds little relevance whatsoever to our experiences in Southeast Asia.

            This is so wrong. This is like when a Chinese person dismisses American advice or criticism based on American history/experience as having little relevance whatsoever to experiences in China. You aren’t even arguing how Alex’s points don’t apply, you are just immediately dismissing them as irrelevant. His point about how people in the past (and not just in America) have bemoaned the lack of assimilation by first-generation immigrants (Chinese or otherwise) is completely relevant to Singaporeans bemoaning their own first-generation immigrants. You are arbitrarily declaring things irrelevant without providing any compelling articulation for how they are. Alex’s points aren’t even all “American”.

          • Probotector

            Chinese nor any other Asian people do not look up to white people, and often fail to assimilate in the West as well, so your argument is flawed. Historically, before globalisation and mass communication they did, because there was little choice not to. In fact the truth is, most immigrants from any nationality or ethnicity, emigrating anywhere, fail to assimilate and integrate. This is indeed, like you said, because their nationalism is too high, and their education is too low, but it’s not limited to just mainland Chinese. Also, in western nations, integration is often considered a racist demand nowadays, and is therefore discouraged. The point is assimilation typically never occurs nowadays, particularly in a multicultural society with different races and nationalities numbering in the millions, and transcends all said races and nationalities everywhere.

  • Balkan

    Americans are running around naked? What are these people talking about?

    • Surfeit

      Mardi Gras, BABY!!! Wahoo! Yeah!!

  • Probotector

    You’d think the issue would be more about the forced exposure of a little kid’s junk being a kind of child cruelty or sex offence rather than it merely being about hygiene; although hygiene is an issue as well, it should be secondary.

  • MonkeyMouth

    this kind of ruined my day! pictures of naked baby ass (which for some reason is always all over the fucking tv at home on baby-product commercials) then how these people actually want to say that they should be allowed to wear them in USA. for crissakes…can it get any worse?!?!?! how the hell can anyone even think that?!?!?!

    • mr.wiener

      “Can it get any worse?!” … FGM .

      • MonkeyMouth

        sorry..my internet lingo aint up to snuff…whats FGM?

        • mr.wiener

          Female Genital Mutilation…it ain’t nice at all.
          Do NOT read up on this on the net unless you want to have what is left of your day ruined.

  • Probotector

    “This is serious discrimination against yellow [“Asian”] people!”

    Everything is racism when it’s not what you want.

    “This is serious racial discrimination! If it were white people, they’d probably say: We have no right to interfere with their freedom!”

    Ditto, although the second part makes no sense. Who would say who has no right to interfere with whose freedom? Where… in China or the West? Normally your laowai treats it as when in Rome and it’s doubtful many of them would expose themselves in China.

    “My desire is to help my homeland/country conquer the world, so all the children in the world can wear open-crotch pants!!!”

    Retarded, though probably sarcastic, and therefore unfunny and pointless.

    “So only white people are allowed to run around naked but Asian babies can’t have their little butts exposed? What kind of logic is this?”

    Who runs around naked? Where? The West isn’t all gay pride parades (and they’re not naked btw) and frat bros. on a naked bender. Normally if you expose yourself in the West you’ll get arrested. More race card nonsense to cover for insecurity.

    “The United States really is impervious to reason—”
    …and China isn’t?

    “Americans are somewhat making a big deal about nothing and exaggerating the issue! This is a common thing in China’s rural areas, and something with a very long history!”

    It didn’t happen in China’s rural areas, and Americans don’t want to devolved down to that. The length of history of how long this has been going on is irrelevant, and frankly embarrassing as it illustrates just how long “China’s rural areas” have been behind the curve.

    “Then what are the all day nude parades on the streets considered?”

    A figment of this poster’s imagination perhaps? Again, genital exposure will get you banged up in the West for sure. Then again it’s how they define nudity, but nudity on par with crotchless trousers = genital exposure, an arrest worth offence, as I said.

    Other comments were more reasonable.

  • Charles

    Surprised by the stupidity of the comments above! I would think this would be easy to understand. Crapping in the street isn’t allowed anywhere… right? And where to these people get the idea that it is legal to run around the streets naked? Strange indeed!

    • Kai

      Excepting the sarcastic ones, it’s because they aren’t reading carefully, and/or substituting the issue for what they think the issue is. Pretty common.

      The article is set up to highlight the explanation of open-crotch pants being so the kid can piss and shit anywhere it likes. Some Chinese commenters are failing to recognize that and instead making it an issue of prejudice over cultural differences.

      Interestingly, what is missing is that the Montery Park anecdote (which may be apocryphal or sensationalized) doesn’t mention why the “white girl” originally called the police.

      There are generally two issues here and different people are going to consider one or the other as more important (as we’ve already seen in the cS comments so far):

      1. The possibility that these kids are being allowed to publicly piss and shit wherever they please, possibly made worse by the caretakers not actually cleaning up after them. This involves issues of public hygiene and is most relevant to the statute the lawyer cited.

      2. Whether or not there is some moral issue about little children having their “privates” exposed in public.

      The first issue is pretty clear-cut even among the Chinese. You might have some people who waffle about little kiddie pee and poo not being a big deal, but even most Chinese recognize that they’re waste products and unhygenic. It’s not an issue of irrationality but one of indifference. Chinese netizens made the same observation.

      The bigger issue I think is the second one, on how people will moralize the issue of child nudity, with some falling in the “it’s innocent” camp and others falling into the “it’s shameful” camp. One side might sexualize it, and the other side will be disturbed by the people so readily sexualizing it. One side will say, “dude, cover that up!” The other side will say, “dude, it’s just a kid, get your mind out of the gutter, stop making an innocent thing dirty.”

      There are better opposing arguments for the second issue, which makes it more contentious.

  • Amused

    Send the farmer bitch and her offspring back home. Seriously? Somehow this fucktard family got through immigration? They make the dirtiest, poorest illegal immigrant look like little lord Fauntleroy. Just sad, and there HAVE to be Chinese people MUCH more deserving of a green card. Who goes to another country and acts like this?

    • Rick in China

      You’ve answered your own question man. :D

      Public shaming! Put the parents face up in the post! HUMAN FLESH SEARCCCHHHHHHHH!

    • hypebeast88

      Unfortunately this took place in Monterey Park, part of the San Gabriel Valley, which is next to LA, they have one of the largest Chinese population outside of china, i wish it wasn’t so, but they drive just as bad as they do in china, and act the same way, ( line cutting and all) …..

      • Amused

        If you’re in the US you don’t have to be putting up with cutting in line= just casually elbow them as they attempt to jump the line just like we did back in school.

        • hypebeast88

          oh no, if they do that to me in the us, i straight up just cut them back, but in china with the aiyi’s i have a hard time, although i once cut through a whole pack of them at the airport and they went nuts! was hilarious

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            Yesterday a fat lady with one of those ‘my husband has a low-to-mid-level government job so you better respect me’ haircuts cut in line before me at the local KFC in ShenZhen. I very politely tapped her on the shoulder and told her that the till on the left was for VIP customers. She nodded, left our queue and got in the back of the ‘VIP’ queue next to us…

          • Kai

            BRILLIANT!

          • Rick in China

            That’s a great trick, I will try it. More interested in how it turned out…..was she meandering around aimlessly not sure what to do when she learned she had been had? Did she try to return? What next what next!

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            I don’t know, she was still in the queue when I got my food and left.

    • Dr Sun

      you do realize of course that this story is fake

      “Monterey Park police, the station chief said he has not heard of such an incident and must investigate further before he can confirm it.”

      and the photos used in the article don’t look like they were taken in America either.

      • Blue

        It states at the bottom of the article that the photos are for illustrative purposes.
        Also it states that it’s not sure whether this happened in Monterey Park or somewhere else.
        Plus it also says that regardless of whether it’s true or not, it raises valid questions.

        • Dr Sun

          so its fake, but raises valid questions ????

  • ClausRasmussen

    They certainly understand what discrimination is, they just have a poor understanding of the US laws and regulations covering this “phenomenon” and a belief that anything goes with respect to nudity. Try googling “public nudity USA” and look at the image tab and you’ll see where they got that idea from

    https://www.google.com/search?q=public+nudity+USA&safe=off&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=IlxcVKPtDoGuPf7_gLgI&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#

  • Peter Siu

    Some people are just forgiving for their wrongdoings however they are calling this as discrimination against them. What a shame!

  • Germandude

    It almost always works out to step into the role of the victim that’s being discriminated against. Grat job.

    • “Power comes from the barrel of a gun”… so it’s tremendous power to be pointing it at your own head, and talk about the feelings that hurt as a result.

  • AbC

    Having your kids dump their crap wherever they go is inherently a form of selfishness (very strong Chinese trait whereby someone doesn’t give a shit about anyone outside their immediate family). That mindset is why littering in streets and smoking in restaurants are so prevalent in China.
    That being said, generally, the Chinese are pretty good at adapting to the culture of their adopted countries. Otherwise there would be a lot more instances of ‘open crotch’ toddlers. It’s the first I have heard of it happening outside China. (I know of some Chinese parents who still use them at home, but at least have a different set of pants for going out).

    • Xman2014

      “Chinese parents who still use them at home”

      So they crap and shit all over their own house? Ewwww….
      Remind me never to step inside a Chinese home.

      • AbC

        Well. I haven’t seen any of them crap or wee in the house when I was there.
        But it’s apparently more convenient for them as the 1-2yo toddlers can use the potty without taking off their pants. I don’t think they intend to have the kids crap all over the house, but I can’t say that it doesn’t happen.

        I can see the merit of using it during toilet training (provided the kid is already somewhat accustomed to using the potty).

  • Renjick

    I’m guessing these people have never heard of this new-fangled invention called the diaper. Amazing enough, it saves public streets from smelling like crap and piss! WOW!

  • Xio Gen

    This is no more discrimination than enforcing endangered species acts is. What assholes.

  • booty butt cheeks

  • JayJay

    For the sake of embarrassment when they grow up, don’t let them wear this crap… literally…

  • Surfeit

    “It’s not that Westerners are being too serious [rigid, uncompromising] about this, it’s that many Chinese people believe these things to be unalterable and trivial. Even when they are bad habits, such as children urinating and defecating wherever they please [in inappropriate places], adults speaking loudly without regard for the situation/surroundings, loudly speaking on the phone, littering as they please. These small things that do not respect public/civic ethics, most think them to be rather ordinary, and this is the difference between East and West. In short: The level of civility is not enough, so consider the public good more.”

    Nail. Head. Hit.

  • Irvin

    Them ‘muricans don’t take shit from nobody, not even babies. So if you’re going to america, better fasten seat belts and dippers.

  • The rule for how something is discriminatory towards China:

    If the kid took a dump and someone took a picture, they have lost face for China, and are written off as traitors. Because they were caught, and shame follows.

    If laowai (in their own country) take exception to Chinese culture, in whichever form it is, such as the grand tradition of not caring about what baby asses are leaving on the street or cloth ass-less chaps for toddlers, then that is discriminating against all of China.

    We’re talking about millions of hurt feelings, man.

    • Yes!

      Correction: billions.

      • If I May

        Oh, shit…

  • EBTaipei

    LOL!

  • RagnarDanneskjold

    Easy solution: tell people the parents are gay and those are chaps. Then accuse them of racism and homophobia. Two-fer!

  • Daniel

    “…if police confirm that it is because the parent has not or cannot afford regular pants for the child, then they may take the child from the parents and hand the child over to Child Protective Services.”
    Instead of taking away kids from their poor parents why not just help parents economicaly? What kind of shit country is that? OMG!

    • Irvin

      They ARE helping them economically, by taking away the burden of raising a child.

    • Yes!

      How to help the parents? By throwing money at them?

      • Daniel

        Apparantly you are helping them by taking away their children… Western Europe ways and thinking is so different than US´s…

  • CCCP

    I don’t see what the problem with crotchless pants is. My son wears them (since about 99% of his clothes were either bought in China or are second-hand from Chinese relatives) and nobody in my country has had a problem with it so far. Although he wears a diaper every time, since he’s too small for potty training yet, but next spring when the weather gets warm and he learns to walk, he’ll be chillin’ Chinese-style in those pants (at that time we should be in China anyway, so not a problem). Wearing a diaper during hot and humid summer is just plain torture, besides, it would only delay potty training (as for example, when I was born there were no diapers in our country, so I became potty trained by about 9 months old, while my younger siblings who had diapers available at the time of their birth only did so by around 2 years of age). Not to mention another important factor: diapers cost money, so if you can get away with not using them (or at least reduced usage), you can save quite a bit of cash.

  • Xman2014

    This is just a complete ignorance from the Chinese part. It’s really amusing to see their racism card. Don’t bring the “Asians” into this equation, when it’s a common practice just in China, nobody else does this in Asia. You’re in the US, you’re not in China anymore, and in the US, nobody’s allowed to piss and shit wherever they like, and it’s unacceptable to expose your naked bum.

  • Andrew Cooler Can

    there is no specific law in the US because it is common sense not to shit and pee where ever they please. Do we need a law to enforce every common sense? The locusts invaded hong kong and mainland Chinese let their kids pee and shit where and when ever they please. The locusts have now landed in America, watchout.

  • Andrew Cooler Can

    it is also a mainlander Chinese custom to spit and snot in public.

  • Yes!
  • Edward Kay

    But some adults over there wear the same thing too, only leather.

  • Ken

    They want our world, our society, our social norms, but they don’t want us in it. The problem is once we’re gone they’re left with the wretchedness they’ve created just like in their homeland.

  • sinosoul

    as a Monterey Park resident, I’ve seen (twice, IIRC) kids — probably the same one — at the park wearing said crotchless panties.. err. pants. However, I wasn’t the one who called the police. It was just really charming/awkward/disgusting/amazing that the crotchless toddler trend I ready about on Chinasmack finally made it to Little China, ie. SGV.

    Anywho, the story seems fake since MPD isn’t verifying the incident.

  • lonetrey / Dan

    Some Chinese netizens on the internet are just too stupid to be taken seriously.

    And then there are the ones that are too stupid to be left alone. Makes me want to slap some sense into them.

  • Onymous

    This is peasant behavior, and not practiced by well educated people.

  • must touch brain

    Let the children go naked and one day, these parents might be delighted to find their little exhibitionists have become international, underground internet stars. I’m sure they will all be fine with that.

  • Babies’ bums have got to be among the ten cutest things in the world, so they should make you smile, not get all hoighty-toighty.

  • FYIADragoon

    Thank god for the fines and the fact that even Californians will frown at this. Behavior like this belongs in the countrysides of China. Anyone who sees this in the states should be calling the cops.

  • Karze

    You can’t shit and urinate every where in public places.

  • Karze

    Open crotch may be good at home but not in public.

  • YourSupremeCommander

    I need to find a country where 23 year old girls wear open crotch pants.

  • whuddyasack

    When in Rome, do as the Romans. When in America, do as the Americans. No ifs, no buts. That is how things are meant to be and while it is easy for me to pull a “loser pat” here, I won’t go about defending cultural differences or proclaiming how Americans have an inferior culture.

  • don mario

    this is one of those articles with responses that just show the level of chinese civilisation has not risen high enough yet. reality check.

    the amount of defence for the right to poop every where is absurd. i think its also partially to do with the culture of spoiling kids. they don’t think the kid should have to wait to use the bathroom ect.

  • Sayitoutloud

    It’s not safe to have baby clothes like that because it will only attract the pedophiles to the neighborhood. Pedophilia is one of the top five crimes we have here in the USA, so clothes like that should be banned and not allowed in this country. Thank you very much.

  • Average Zhou

    Man I gotta go fund the all day nude parade onthe streets! My street ddoesn’t seem to have it but ill keep looking.